/lit/ - Literature

>>21040758
Yeah there is more stuff you don't get. Like actually writing coherently and using paragprahs so that your recipient would actually bother reading your text.

>>21040758
Look into theories of atonement. There are a few
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisfaction_theory_of_atonement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ransom_theory_of_atonement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_influence_theory_of_atonement
I haven’t read this book, but I hear it is good and it seems to be what you’re looking for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christus_Victor
Soteriology doesn’t get discussed on /lit/ enough honestly

>>21040758
Christ, the lamb of god, is a literal scapegoat. It's symbolism.

>>21040758
Only read the first few sentences before getting bored of your crap.

Christ died for our sins so we can be saved. Now you can just have faith and holy spirit will work through you and save you.

>>21040758
Read Paul's letters if you haven't. Also Anselm's Why God Became Man, Calvin's Institutes and Luther's Treatise on Christian Liberty, and Arminius's or Wesley's works. Read about the differences between Synergism and Monergism and more generally the varying views of Lutheranism, Calvinism, Arminianism, Catholicism, and Orthodoxy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synergism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monergism

>>21040781
>Soteriology doesn’t get discussed on /lit/ enough honestly
Wholeheartedly agree

>>21040781
>>21040845
Only pr*ts discuss "soteriology" because you don't actually have a religion so you make abstract systems instead.

>>21040856
Search the scriptures man. It's not as unfounded as you think

>>21040883
There's nothing to search. It's all spelled out for everyone
> "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ and ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”

Theres nothing to get because it makes no fucking sense.

>>21040758
>Christ had to die…. for what? What did this actually accomplish?

>>21041080
>>21040758
Also, this. To early Christians, Jesus' dying wasn't the important part.

>>21041092
>Also, this. To early Christians, Jesus' dying wasn't the important part.
The only ones who said this either ignored, rejected, or had no knowledge of (third being most unlikely) of Paul's letters (our earliest Christian documents)

>>21041130
>It is significant that none of the surviving material evidence for pre-Constantinian Christianity, most of which is from the catacombs of Rome, contain any representations of sacrificial imagery. Rather than depictions of Jesus as suffering and dying, for example, or as sacrificed and risen, these funerary data portray Jesus as a wise and heroic teacher, representations of Jesus most closely related to those from such early literary remains as Q and the Gospel of Thomas.

Christianity is the ultimate paradox, if you cant commit thats ok you can still be a catholic and pretend that having sex with a random bitch while doing drugs at satudar night its fine since you are going to confese sunday morning.

>>21040811
>Only read the first few sentences before I felt my safe space is going to be violated
average christcuck. Keep believing your fantasy if that's what makes you keep going lmao

>>21041157
Read Hamlet

Christianity is about just one thing, namely the mindless obedience to a religious power structure. Once you understand that Christianity isn't about reality or meaning, but about power, you begin to understand the whole underlying structure, why none of its concepts or stories make any sense, why its followers barely if ever obey its rules, and why Christians never change their minds, even when confronted with the fundamental flaws of their belief system.

Coherence is not the point of Christianity is not the point, maintaining its hierarchical power structure is. By the way, this is true for pretty much every form of monotheism, whether religious, political or economical. All of them are about mindless obedience, and hierarchy

>>21040929
how come nobody does this

>>21041229
See >>21041216

>>21040758
Someone explain the pokemon yellow arbitrary code exploitation glitch to me. I just don't get it, not strategically, not tactically. It just makes no sense to me. You have to do all this random stuff in the game menus and screw around with your inventory and reset... for what? What did this actually accomplish? How does opening and closing that menu over and over accomplish anything? Obviously all those youtube videos of arbitrary code execution glitch in pokemon yellow are faked, probably by greedy gamers trying to fleece their audience for a buck

>>21041239
What a fucking dumbass comparison, maybe the most incoherent one I've ever seen in my life

>>21040758
>>21041239
Someone explain marijuana to me. I just don't get it, not scientifically, not chemically. It just makes no sense to me. You take this certain specific plant and burn it and inhale the fumes... for what? What did this actually accomplish? How does crushing it up and rolling it in paper and then setting it alight and putting it in your mouth accomplish anything? We always say "THC" but what does this even mean? Obviously it's just dumb kids following what they saw other dumb kids doing, I mean wtf?

>>21040758
Dumb take on the Bible. Maybe read it?
Christ died on the cross because humans are sinful creatures, but through his life he proved that one could live without sin in a mortal human body. He knew he would die and went anyway to save the souls of countless people so that a better would could be achieved through following the holy trinity (God,Jesus,Holy spirit within you)
The holocaust analogy is autistic btw, quit with the history channel

>>21041150
>It is significant that none of the surviving material evidence for pre-Constantinian Christianity, most of which is from the catacombs of Rome, contain any representations of sacrificial imagery. Rather than depictions of Jesus as suffering and dying, for example, or as sacrificed and risen, these funerary data portray Jesus as a wise and heroic teacher
There was no decided upon orthodoxy. Saying that there was an early Christianity is misleading. There were rather several ways of understanding Christianity in those times. More over, much of the proto-Orthodox writings that have been handed down to us were contemporaneous with the archeological findings you mention.
>Q
theoretical
>Gospel of Thomas being early
heavily disputed and smacks of late-date hagiography and legend when you read it. You might as well say the Alexander Romance was a reliable source.

>>21041157
That's just Catholicism though
>>21041216
*yawn

>>21040758
>>21041239
>>21041244
>>21041249
Someone explain reading to me. I just don't get it, not practically, not theoretically. It just makes no sense to me. There's all these markings written on a piece of thin dead wood... for what? What did this actually accomplish? How does staring at all these little lines accomplish anything? We always say "ABCDEFG" but what does this even mean? Surely I'm not the first person to notice this, is everyone else just too scared to speak up and point out what bullshit the whole entire thing is?

>>21041255
Gospel of Thomas is both early and heretical, and the proof is because in all the genuine gospels, Jesus gives us a method for detecting false gospels, which Gospel of Thomas fails, showing that A) it's not genuine, and B) it's very early because if its author had known about said method they would have taken it into account.

"By pouring this perfume on Me, she has prepared My body for burial. Truly I tell you, wherever this gospel is preached in all the world, what she has done will also be told in memory of her." (Matthew 26:12-13)

Why is believing in the supernatural stuff of the Bible not in the DSM-V ?

>>21041253
>one could live without sin in a mortal body

Because he was God, not fully man. No shit.

>knew he would die and went anyways to save the souls of countless people

Because hes god, and he was killed as part of gods plan to fix gods fuck up he made to begin with. It doesnt even make sense that him dying magically absorbed all sin, why couldnt god just tell us do the right thing and then save our souls without sending another form of himself and killing it.

>(God, Jesus, Holy spirit)

All three of these are God in Christianity, its Father, son, holy spirit in the trinity. God isnt a form of god in its godhead.

>holocaust

God shouldve just finished what he started if he was actually righteous and killed the people thay betrayed him and betrayed himself in the form of the son but he was apparentally too cucked to do that. He always was just a tribal pagan canaanite god elevated by the jews to the top of their pantheon and later monotheized. None of this shit makes sense cause jews came up with it, and you really arent informed on it to begin with.

>>21041515
Dumb ass, you're either on your knees praying or sucking dick. I'm sad to see an autistic retard picked the latter.
You fundamentally don't understand the bible as you have only listened to theamazingathiest describe it to you.
READ A BOOK. YOU ARE ON /LIT/
READ THE NEW TESTAMENT

>>21041631
Very christlike behavior. Im sure Jesus would treat others the same way. youre just another larping degenerate that uses christ as a moral stance to feel superior like every other christian on here.

>>21041631
And I have obviously read the new testament since I understand the distinction between God and the Father, and that Jesus was God despite him being made of flesh. You make it sound like he was just a man that lived a perfect life which is antithetical to what the Bible literally says, which is that he is the Son of the Father, and is spiritually God. How could he sin?

Christianity threads are so fucking bad why do I click on them?

>>21041804
Because despite their innumerable shortcomings you still love humanity, and pity them in their suffering, for not knowing any better.

:)

>>21041818
I pity everyone in this thread including me

>>21040758
Nonono, you're overthinking things. And it does not have to make sense btw. The objective of Christianity is quiet a different one:
- You are a sinner (everyone of us is a potential nazi)
- You are the perpetual victim (rainbow activist, holocaust)
- Be a good little lamb (NPC)
- Allow your brothers in Abraham to do their business as middle men of the aristocracy and to live among you. (tolerate the jews)

>>21041515
[Assuming God and the Bible are real]:

He was God in the form of a human man. Despite the fact Jesus knew what the consequences of his actions would be, he still chose to go forward to save the lives of many and uphold the message of God.
>fix gods fuck up
I assume you mean the free will of humans and their ability to commit acts of evil. Without evil, there can be no good.
>why couldnt god just tell us do the right thing and then save our souls without sending another form of himself and killing it.
Because it's a lot easier to interpret God when he is a literal human being instead of an undefined concept. (He's not a bearded dude in the sky.)
Why couldn't God build them a Walmart so they could get themselves food and clothing?
>God shouldve just finished what he started if he was actually righteous and killed the people thay betrayed him and betrayed himself in the form of the son but he was apparentally too cucked to do that.
Touch grass. I'm sure you don't talk about Jews as a race being guilty for the death of Christ to people you know in real life.

>>21041939
Lmao I have brought in up in real life many times as I have friends.

>oh but you dont bring up random political/metaphysical/racial views to strangers on the street

No, no one who isnt retarded should. You have cordial conversation.

>>21040758 (OP)
>>21041239
>>21041244
>>21041249
>>21041257
Someone explain the Bible to me. I just don't get it, not scientifically, not spiritually. It just makes no sense to me. You have to guard your soul from all worldly imprints and do novel hermeneutical maneuvers to the text ... for what? What did this actually accomplish? How does finding biblical cheat-codes and breaking the hegelian machine of entrapment and then activating the Gamer singularity through memeing accomplish anything? We always say "Penul Gland" but what does this even mean? Obviously all those 2nd-4th century gamers were just sneed's Seed and Feed, I mean wtf is the Seed?

>>21040758
it's a story about a man who told the truth and was executed for it, his followers refused to forget

>>21040758
>explain Christianity to me
Christians believe that mankind was created specifically to have a relationship with God, but sin separates all men from God (Romans 3:23; 5:12). Christianity teaches that Jesus Christ walked this earth, fully God, and yet fully man (Philippians 2:6-11), and died on the cross. Christians believe that after His death, Christ was buried, He rose again, and now lives at the right hand of the Father, making intercession for the believers forever (Hebrews 7:25). Christianity proclaims that Jesus’ death on the cross was sufficient to completely pay the sin debt owed by all men and this is what restores the broken relationship between God and man (Hebrews 9:11-14; 10:10; Romans 5:8; 6:23).

Christianity teaches that in order to be saved and be granted entrance into heaven after death, one must place one’s faith entirely in the finished work of Christ on the cross. If we believe that Christ died in our place and paid the price of our own sins, and rose again, then we are saved. There is nothing that anyone can do to earn salvation. We cannot be “good enough” to please God on our own, because we are all sinners (Isaiah 53:6; 64:6-7). There is nothing more to be done, because Christ has done all the work! When He was on the cross, Jesus said, “It is finished” (John 19:30), meaning that the work of redemption was completed.

According to Christianity, salvation is freedom from the old sin nature and freedom to pursue a right relationship with God. Where we were once slaves to sin, we are now slaves to Christ (Romans 6:15-22). As long as believers live on this earth in their sinful bodies, they will engage in a constant struggle with sin. However, Christians can have victory in the struggle with sin by studying and applying God’s Word in their lives and being controlled by the Holy Spirit—that is, submitting to the Spirit’s leading in everyday circumstances.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avN_gQ7NC0I
This is the best explanation.

>>21041157
>having sex with a random bitch while doing drugs at satudar night its fine since you are going to confese sunday morning.
I'm Catholic and this is inaccurate, I never wake up early enough on Sunday to do that.

>>21043623
>some hippie boomer druggie McBuddhist saying "we're all Jesus maaaaaan"
This is gayer than atheism.

>>21040758
its jewish memetics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyMwrE8x2fs

>>21040796
This. Before there was Jesus, if a person committed a sin they would be like "damn, I feel really guilty about this sin I committed.". And god had commanded then to repent for their sins by sacrificing "a lamb without blemish". Basically being a sinner means we deserve to not even be alive, but the lamb takes our place and takes our punishment for us. You would be sacrificing the lamb thinking "this lamb is innocent and didn't do anything wrong, I should be the one to die". Jesus was the final lamb. Jesus was a lamb without blemish, a man without blemish, he was without sin. He willingly took our place, we deserve to die because we're the evil ones, he never sinned in his entire life yet he's the one on the cross suffocating to death. He is the word made flesh, he is the human embodiment of gods word, he follows gods word to the letter, perfectly, every minute of his life. When we accept Jesus as our king and Savior we are accepting gods word as our king and Savior because he is the word made flesh. By accepting Jesus we accept gods word, which is what's going to save us from our sin. When we reject Jesus we reject gods word and that's what sends us to hell.

>>21040758
Let's explain this in crug speak so as to make it as simple as possible for you.

God make man. God make paradise for man. Man say want more.. do wrong against God. Man fall into darkness away from God. God send son to make right for fallen people. Now people have way back to God through son.

>>21042002
Nice try, bot.

>>21041157
>having sex with a random bitch while doing drugs at satudar night
it doesnt make you not saved, however, youre not allowed to go to church, because fornicators and drunkards get 1 Cor 5. at the same time you have a duty to not forsake the assembly. so its not possible to be a fornicator or a drunkard and also be honorable

>>21041157
It's not about confession, it's about repentance. Repentance means to have a genuine change of heart. You feel guilty about your sin, you know it's wrong, you know god wants you to do better, and you want to do better for god, so you make a genuine effort to do better. If you're just confessing then repeating the same sin, then confessing then sinning again, then you obviously haven't repented and god knows your heart.

>>21040758
lots of prot and catholic retards in this thread talking about penal substitution BS. The real reason Christ had to die was to overturn the death and decay that humanity had brought upon itself through the mistake of Adam and the sin of Cain and all of their descendants. It is very important to note that this sin had a corrupting agent on its own, it led humanity into darkness and misery because turning away from God has that effect, that is the whole reason we are prone to sin and why the world and our nature is fallen. The problem of sin is not solely God being angry with us and wishing to punish us just for disobeying his arbitrary rules, the rules he gives us and what he tells us not to do are integral to the functioning of reality, if he tells us not to do a certain thing it is because that thing will lead us to spiritual and physical ruin, it is NOT arbitrary. With this in mind, Christ was sent to die for us in order to overturn the death we had brought upon ourselves. He faced the horrible corruption and decay and misery of human life and then was resurrected and ascended into heaven, bringing our human nature into heaven with him. He conquered death and redeemed our fallen nature by facing the same fate we all would inevitably face without God and overcame it completely, giving us a way out of our doom, a path to follow and an example of perfection to strive for, and a direct connection to God that we had lost since our fall. It was God giving us a ladder to climb out of the pit we had thrown ourselves into. We decided to turn away from him, we decided to worship demons, we decided to rebel against him, we decided to mock him and torture him and kill him, but he loved us so much that he faced death and all of the cruelty and suffering of mankind in order to save us.

>>21041239
Comparing computer science to theology is taking stupidity to levels that is impressive even for 4chan.

>>21040758
>Christ had to die…. for what? What did this actually accomplish? How does him being tortured to death accomplish anything? We always say “Christ died for our sins” but what does this even mean?

"He himself bore our sins in his body" (1 Pet. 2:24). Christ's death was for the purpose of penal substitutionary atonement. Penal, because it takes the punishment for sins. Substitutionary, because Christ did not sin, but took the punishment for the sins of His people. Atonement, because the punishment satiates the wrath of God against sin.

>He could’ve just refrained from killing anybody, including himself.

"[W]ithout the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins." (Heb. 9:22) God is by nature perfect, which means that He is perfectly just. For God to forgive sins without any atonement would be a contradiction of His justice (it is not that God has to obey some standard outside and above Himself.) If a judge let a murderer go free without any punishment, would they be a good and just judge? No.

>if hell is the just punishment for sinners then how did Christ take on our punishment if he got tortured only momentarily?

By this I imagine you're asking how did Christ's temporary suffering atone for a punishment that is eternal. There's a common idea that once you die you suddenly become perfect and stop sinning. There's no reason to believe this. The Bible says that we are "dead in sins" (Eph. 2:1) and that "the mind set on the flesh does not submit itself to the law of God, indeed it can not do so." (Romans 8:8) Once people die unsaved, they still hate God and do not want to be with Him. They keep screaming their hatred for and spitting in the face of the one who created them. In fact, the Bible says that God is actively restraining the evil of mankind on earth, to prevent them from becoming completely evil. In hell he takes off that restraint.

>>21044085
This is basically the correct answer.

>>21041772
Christ did use harsh language against the pharisees. All about the heart and context. It's not don't judge, but don't judge wrongly. Also Perfectionism isn't part of Christianity.

>>21044085
>it is NOT arbitrary
Yes it is because God made it up. Imagine thinking some laws of reality are above God.
>your brain on poopodoxy

>People saw Christ healing countless cripples and sick persons
>Bring someone back from death
>Spawn food out of thin air
>Turn water into wine
And then literally no one turned up to support him when he got arrested?

>>21045930
Sounds realistic to me. There's little those people could have done anyway. Not that it matters.

>>21040929
>and with all your mind
>there's nothing to search
The commands are simple to understand but hard to execute. By faithfully studying the scriptures (Be a Berean) we can learn the how and why and use it to follow Jesus and to lead others to Him. Always be ready to give an account...

>>21045930
>Romans dare arrest a literal miracle worker
If I was a bystander I'd want to be as far from these events as possible. Imagine the carnage Jesus could have unleashed

>>21040758
Every time I try to give the Bible a chance and read it, I am constantly reminded by how pedantic and human it all feels. The more I read it, the more there is no doubt in my mind that there is nothing holy or even spiritual about this text. Don't get me wrong, some of the short stories are quite good and absolutely have literary value and even some good morals, but it boggles my mind to think that there are millions of people who actually base a religion around this book and really believe this stuff. I mean, just think about it. God almighty, the creator of the universe and of time itself, the alpha and the omega felt it was really important to mention hundreds of times in his holy text he gave to mankind that he demands his followers to have circumcised penises and the degree of sourness the dough of bread needs to have that they eat. There is just so much stupid, utterly pedantic shit in this book, how do christfags look past all of this?

>Epistle of Barnabas 9:7
For the scripture saith; And Abraham circumcised of his household eighteen males and three hundred. What then was the knowledge given unto him? Understand ye that He saith the eighteen first, and then after an interval three hundred In the eighteen 'I' stands for ten, 'H' for eight. Here thou hast JESUS (IHSOYS). And because the cross in the 'T' was to have grace, He saith also three hundred. So He revealeth Jesus in the two letters, and in the remaining one the cross.

>12:2
And He saith again in Moses (Exodus 17:8–13), when war was waged against Israel by men of another nation, and that He might remind them when the war was waged against them that for their sins they were delivered unto death; the Spirit saith to the heart of Moses, that he should make a type of the cross and of Him that was to suffer, that unless, saith He, they shall set their hope on Him, war shall be waged against them for ever. Moses therefore pileth arms one upon another in the midst of the encounter, and standing on higher ground than any he stretched out his hands, and so Israel was again victorious. Then, whenever he lowered them, they were slain with the sword.

>>21046224

>12:5–7
Again Moses (Numbers 21:4–9) maketh a type of Jesus, how that He must suffer, and that He Himself whom they shall think to have destroyed shall make alive in an emblem when Israel was falling. For the Lord caused all manner of serpents to bite them, and they died (forasmuch as the transgression was wrought in Eve through the serpent), that He might convince them that by reason of their transgression they should be delivered over to the affliction of death. Yea and further though Moses gave the commandment; Ye shall not have a molten or a carved image for your God, yet he himself made one that he might show them a type of Jesus. So Moses maketh a brazen serpent, and setteth it up conspicuously, and summoneth the people by proclamation. When therefore they were assembled together they entreated Moses that he should offer up intercession for them that they might be healed. And Moses said unto them; Whensoever, said he, one of you shall be bitten, let him come to the serpent which is placed on the tree, and let him believe and hope that the serpent being himself dead can make alive; and forthwith he shall be saved. And so they did. Here again thou hast in these things also the glory of Jesus, how that in Him and unto Him are all things.

>>21046143
Maybe it's less that it's the given word rather than a testimony of it.

>>21040758
Psst, hey kid. Want some Gnosis?

>>21044012
This is nonsensical because if you've wronged someone, the only measurable and thus only genuine way of repenting is to right that wrong. However, many wrongs can never be righted, and thus you can never truly genuinely repent of many things, not just serious things but even little things like bullying your classmates as a child have permanent, unrightable consequences for neurodevelopment. You are forever unreprented in any meaningful, genuine sense.

You cannot truly be sorry if you have no fixed what you broke. Simple as.

Is it called the Holy Spirit or the Holy Ghost?

>>21046939
Holy Spirit. Holy Ghost is a prot thing

>>21047078
>Holy Ghost is a prot thing
Why is it in the Douay-Rheims (1582 original) then? Or in Wycliffe's translation which also precedes Protestantism?

>>21040758
It's based
/thread

>>21045988
>There's little those people could have done anyway.
Why not?

Christ's sacrifice is really underwhelming when you look at the execution for what it is.
>a heretical preacher in the backwoods of the Roman empire upset the local jewry so he was executed to ease tension
That THIS is the ultimate truth and the answer to man's destiny is absurd.

>>21040758
The Bible won’t make any sense without understanding some background in ancient history.

Historically, during the events of the Old Testament, it was widely believed that you had to sacrifice an animal (like a lamb or a calf) on an altar to atone for a sin. It was self-inflicted punishment.

However, Jesus Christ—the son of God—is perfect and flawless in all his ways. The Old Testament predicted that only the perfect sacrifice would be sufficient in atoning all sin forever.

But on another note, it’s not merely that Jesus Christ was a perfect sacrifice; He was also God made flesh, an omnipotent being confined to a regular human body.

He wanted to prove his love for us by saying, “All the sacrifices in the world won’t save you, so I will sacrifice myself for you as a demonstration of my love.”

But even though He endured incredible pain and death at the crucifixion, it wasn’t the end. He emerged alive and unharmed from his tomb, and instead of “dying” He later ascended to Heaven before a large crowd as a demonstration of His power and his effortless conquer of death.

>>21047078
>Holy Spirit. Holy Ghost is a prot thing
Translating to "Holy Spirit" instead of "Holy Ghost" is literally a Vatican II change. Fucking newfags.

>>21048004
The 1582 Douay-Rheims used both, as did the KJV.

>>21048393
>both
So it did in fact use Ghost, yes.

>>21048419
Yes, Spiritus Sanctus.

>>21040758
The very short version is that by incarnating as a human to do the free will earth life and overcoming in every point even to the death, God opened a path for humans that was previously not open and made it impossible for them to (previously) reach the highest goal in the development

>>21045856
No retard the way reality functions is intrinsic to God's being, there are essential characteristic features of his being that exist that he expresses through his creation and urges us to follow. he doesnt just arbitrarily make everything up just because, that is insane and paradoxical to believe. The laws of reality are not above god, you completely misunderstood what i was saying, the laws of reality are an expression of God's nature, and our existence now is fallen because we walked away from this perfect order, and he calls us to come back to it. For example, man being made in God's image, that implies God has a defined image that is essential to his being, its not just an arbitrary thing he made up (and its not "above" him either, moron). And when you actually do separate the things he determines as right or wrong from the functioning of the universe (which I have no idea why anyone would ever want to do this) what is the reason God would determine anything as right or wrong in the first place, if it actually is just totally arbitrary? This line of thinking is simply refuted by the old euthyphro dilemma.

>>21048557
go on

>>21040758
The bible is more like an outdated set of guidelines on how to survive in the desert. If you dont live in a desert youre fine

>>21049198
Interesting, because Israel isn't in the desert.

>>21041274
what if it's the only true one and the others are fake

I'll try to summarize it for you OP:

1. Human beings were created by God in his image, both Adam (male) and Eve (female), along with a "beginning" of time, the world, plants, trees, animals etc. They lived in what seemed to be a perfect paradise free from suffering in the Garden of Eden. God invented time, and your brain...so it's useless to ask "but who created God"? God invented logic, the concept of "creating" something etc. Also God created Adam as a fully formed man, not as a baby...so, the universe can look billions of years old, but it isn't.

2. It's revealed later in scripture, that God is a 3 part being (where we get the word trinity from), and he created everything with "his word", which is Gods son in the triune/trinity relationship (God being the father). Later on you read that "the word took on flesh", which is a physical form...and we have known him as the name "Jesus". Gods words are said to be "spirit", and it's with those words he made everything in existence. Jesus is a physical representation, like a symbol we use in language, alluding to "spirit" which are what the word of God (Jesus) encapsulates...just like the word "tough" calls to mind a bunch of things, it encapsulates ideas and feelings...but with Jesus, it's spirit

2. God told his newly created creatures (Adam and Eve) that they could eat anything they wanted, but not to touch "the tree of knowledge of good/evil", because if they did "they would surely die"

3. A snake like creature, who many believe to be "satan" (which simply means enemy) approaches Eve and questions what God said, and puts doubt in Eves mind, and tempts her "did God really say not to eat that? He's trying to hold you back, you won't die, it'll open your eyes" etc. She succumbs to the temptation and eats the fruit, and then causes her husband Adam to fall with her. You could look at this as symbol of logic and emotion, the Bible says Adam didn't fall for the temptation, but Eve did (Adam being representative of logic, Eve of emotion)

4. . Upon eating the tree, they immediately realized that they were naked. They became aware of what was right and whats wrong. Think of an animal like a bear, all of a sudden realizing that mauling kids is bad. Before that the bear just did bear things irrespective of what they were. This knowledge, brought death. What this death is, is not a physical death of the body...this is suggested elsewhere in scripture. There is a passage in the Bible which states "we are spiritually dead in trespasses and sins". What we suffered from eating from the tree of knowledge, was some kind of "spiritual death". Think of a flower plucked from its root...it'll live for a week or 2, then shrivel up and die. In the case of us humans, God is our root. The spirit is what created life itself, and so us being cut off from that means we are "dead" in a sense

>>21050331

5. So God curses the snake for making mankind fall, and also curses Adam and Eve...he says something very peculiar, "i will put enmity between thy seed (the serpents children/seed) and the womans seed (Eves children). What on earth are they talking about? Well later it's revealed that the serpent, the dragon, Lucifer the fallen angel...they're all associated with each other, they are the same person. Later in the New Testament you read the passage "you are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do" (this was Jesus speaking to evil Jews, they were claiming they were physically and genetically Jews and therefore the children of Abraham...however scripture later states "the flesh profits nothing"...a true Jew, is one born of the spirit) So these 2 different "seedlines" are spiritual in nature...it suggests that you are either a spiritual son of the devil seed, or a spiritual son of the womans seed


6. Back to Adam and Eve. They were then thrown out of the garden. They were also blocked from eating another tree in the garden, called "the tree of life"..we'll touch on this later. God knew that they would fall for the temptation, and had pe-emptively made a plan in to rescue them (Jesus). You may be wondering, but doesn't God know everything? Why did he act surprised that they ate the fruit? Well, this is because God has the ability to hide information from different parts that comprise his makeup. As "The Father" he knows all, as "the son" he has limited information. It is revealed later in the book of Revelation, that even Jesus himself does not know what time he would return (his 2nd coming), only The Father knew. And God The Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit all are components that make up "God"....just like the past, present and future all make up "time".

6. The Bible then goes into stories of Adam and Eve, all the children they gave birth to, and their children's children. 2 interesting children that were born, were "Cain" and "Abel"...these 2 were symbolic archetypes of the serpents seed (Cain) and the womans seed (Abel). Their behavior reflected who they were from. One day Cain and Abel made offerings to God, Cain offered fruits and vegetables, and Abel the life of an animal. God didn't like Cains offering, but he respected Abels. Cain got jealous and then killed Abel. Cains offering of fruits and vegetables symbolically represents "your own hard work and effort". God does not accept that. Abels offering of the animals life symbolically represented "reliance on another, which symbolized jesus death and our reliance on him"

7. Fast forward, and we get up to Noah. At that time the world was populated, and everyone was evil, violent and killing each other. God decides he's going to wipe everything out and regrets ever creating man. One guy was left who was still good, Noah and his family. God tells him to make and ark and tells him how to make it.

(cont...)

>>21041157
>mad protnigger

>>21050397

7. All the animals get on the ark in 2's. So far you've probably been seeing a pattern of 2's...Adam and Eve, the tree of knowledge and the tree of life, the serpents seed and the womans seed, cain and abel...and yes, this is referring to "DUALITY" or relativity. You always need at least 2 things to create life. Look at a magnet, you see a positive and negative polarity, and a "force" created by the 2. Well, the trinity is the same way... You have 2 polarities (The Father, The Son), and a "force" shared between them (The Holy Spirit). Anyway, so the day of the flood comes, Noah is on the ark and the whole rest of the world is wiped out by the flood. Water is symbolic of death, why? Because it is always changing, always fluctuating, there is no solidity to it, no identity....the flood is what is happening again in todays world, in a symbolic/spiritual sense. Your identity is being destroyed (race mixing, globalism, centralization of tech, subjectivity in morals, gender etc). The world is being swept over by a spiritual flood...and who will survive? Only those who got on "the ark". Gods word is called "the rock", a sure foundation. It creates DUALITY between good and evil, male and female. When you base your life on this rock, your identity wont get destroyed by the coming flood, because your identity is rooted in Gods word...anyway

8. Fast forward to Abraham, and here we meet "the father of faith". This man showed us how it's done, how we become children of God. It's via faith. Abraham was given the ultimate test, God tells him one day to sacrifice his only son Isaac, who he loved deeply...he obeyed and was about to do it, thankfully he was stopped, and then God provided a ram caught in a thicket...This symbolically represented Jesus Christ, the lamb who was slain for the world. Abraham was like God in a way, in that he was going to symbolically sacrifice his only son. God promises because he obeyed, that Abraham and all his descendants would be as numerous and countless as the stars.

9. Abrahams son Isaac, has 2 sons called Jacob and Esau. Jacob was born apparently holding onto the heel of Esau, symbolizing "reliance on another", like with what we saw above with Abels offering. Again with these 2 we have another symbolic representation (I believe) of the seed of the woman, and the seed of the serpent. The Bible says God said "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated". Esau ends up selling his birth right (his birth right as the first born) to Jacob over a simple meal when he's hungry one day. Then when Isaac is about to die from old age, Jacob steals his fathers blessing from Esau, per his mothers suggestion

10. Fast forward and we come to a part where Jacob "wrestles with an angel of the lord"...the Bible says again, something very peculiar, Jacob said "I saw the face of God and lived". This is where we get esoteric interpretations like "Jacobs ladder". The place where they wrestled was called "peniel" or something too

(cont...)

>>21050464

10. The place "peniel" sort of has the same name as "pineal", as in "the pineal gland". Some people draw a correlation with that, Jacobs ladder, ego death etc. Whatever the case, the Bible says, he wrestled with an angel of God, who touched "the hollow on his leg", and "he saw the face of God and lived". After this event, his name Jacob, is changed to "Israel", which is the name of the nation state of the Jews today

11. Moving forward, Israel has a bunch of sons..one of those sons "Joseph" gets sold into slavery by his jealous brothers. Joseph would get visions of him ruling over his brothers, and this made them angry and annoyed. Joseph ends up as a slave in Egypt, but through his hard work and dedication to God, God gives him the ability to interpret dreams. He tells pharoah the meaning of his nightmare, and it was all about a famine. Because of this Joseph is promoted 2nd only to Pharoah himself and helps rule over Egypt. During the famine his brothers who sold him into slavery are forced to go to Egypt to get food, this is when Joseph recognizes his brothers...some stuff goes down, but his brothers and family end up living in Egypt. Joseph dies eventually. Fast forward and the Jews/Israelites multiply so much that the Egyptians start to get scared, and so oppress them. They force them to be slaves and start killing all of their first born

12. Since all the first born were getting killed, one of the Israelite mothers abandons her baby in a river. This baby floats down the river and pharoahs daughter notices. She decides to take him in. This babys name is Moses. Moses grows into a man eventually and then sees the oppression of his people The Jews), he kills an Egyptian taskmaster that was beating one of his brethren unfairly. He flees Egypt because of this, this is where he finds the burning bush...the burning bush is revealed to be God, he tells him that he hears the groans of the Jews crying out to be set free from the oppression and slavery. God wants to help and so sends Moses back to challenge pharoah

13. A lot of back and forth and miracles etc happen between Moses and pharoah, because pharoah refused to let the Jews go. One thing in particular that happened that is very symbolic, is that God says he will send an angel of death to kill all the first born in Egypt, because they would not let the Jews go. The Jews to protect themselves from the angel of death put the blood of a lamb on their doorpost, and so the angel would pass over. The blood of the lamb is symbolic of Jesus Christ...the angel of death symbolic of judgement

>>21050515

14. Anyway so pharoah lets Moses and the Jews go, but then gets mad and decides to chase after them. This is where one of the greatest miracles in the Bible happens, God splits the red sea in half. This is very symbolic. Remember earlier how I saw water represents death? It represents constant fluctuation, no identity etc...well God splitting the sea in half, it's him showing his power of DUALITY. It is Gods word that puts a difference between male and female, it is Gods word that divided the light from the dark, it is Gods word that divides good from evil. This division process is how God creates things, and creates order. Later in the Bible, you hear about how "Jesus walked on water", again very very symbolic. Jesus is taming and navigating the perilous and ever changing sea. God tells "the sea to calm down" once during a storm. With baptism when you get submerged in the water, it symbolizes "your old nature dying"...in other scripture you hear about how the demons that were cast out of a man, went into pigs, and the pigs ran off a cliff into the sea

15. The Jews/Israelites escape pharoah, pharoah is drowned in the red sea. Another symbol of this is that Egypt represents spiritual slavery. All the stories in the Old Testament, are literal physical representations of a spiritual reality, so for example the Jews in the Old Testament were literally genetically and physically Jews, but the scripture says in the New Testament, that whoever believes on Jesus Christ via faith (like Abraham did), those are the real Jews. And so this literal physical story, of the Jews/Israelites being slaves in Egypt, that's talking ABOUT YOU, right now. This world is spiritually Egypt, the devil rules this world as pharoah, you are in spiritual Egypt. If you are a child of God, he will call you out from Egypt...but similar to the story, pharoah (the devil) will chase you down

16. On the other side of the red sea, at mount Sinai...God writes the 10 commandments with his finger, into two stone tablets. Again, we see this theme of 2. (adam and eve, cain and abel, serpent seed and womans seed, 2 animals on the ark etc etc). While Moses is up in the mountain, the Jews/Israelites make a molten calf and start worshipping it...some drama goes down, people get killed

(gonna stop now, will continue 2mrw)

>>21050331
>>21050397
>>21050464
>>21050515
>>21050642
tl;dr: Christ is Lord.

Christ is not God. His works are through the father, as he says. The father granted him all authority in heaven and earth but it will be returned to “God, the Father,” as the Bible explicitly states. What the Bible never once mentions is that Jesus is God.

>>21040758
Christians are a laughable lot. There are a million different sects because the bible has a million contradictions. Nothing is consistent, nothing makes sense. Right at the start Adam and Even disobey God by... eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil? Wait, how were they morally accountable for that action if it was taken before they knew good from evil? Literally the first story in the first book and it fails the most basic concept of morality and makes God out to be unethical. The book doesn't get better from there.

>>21050969
>What the Bible never once mentions is that Jesus is God.
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

>>21051007
>Right at the start Adam and Even disobey God by... eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil?
yes, try to read past the first chapter
>Genesis 2
>16. And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
>17. but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

>>21051438
Okay, so they do not have the knowledge of good and evil. How are they supposed to know it is evil to disobey God? You can't hold someone accountable for an action if they are incapable of comprehending a moral choice. Does this concept really go over your head? Also, they didn't die "that day", so God is also a liar.

>>21040758
historicly, Jews had to sacrafice an animal to atone for sins. The more worthy the animal, the more forgiveness they got. Jesus was perfect and free of sin, so when he was sacrificed, he atoned for all sins for all time. (like everyone else) Jesus didn't really die since he went to heaven.

The Trinity is sort of a big riddle that got out of hand. There is no scripture that says Jesus = god. Jesus is god's son.

>>21051449
>gets told not to do thing
>does thing
>gets punished
>"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I CAN'T BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR DOING THING I WAS TOLD NOT TO DO BECAUSE I NEED MORE REASONS OTHER THAN PLAIN INSTRUCTIONS"

>>21051477
>Literally lacks the ability to comprehend moral decisions
>Held morally accountable anyway
>"Uhh, well, you should have known anyway, even though we just established you couldn't possibly know. But you should have known."
Yep, Christ cucks are retarded

>>21051524
>dude listening is hard

>>21051716
>Understanding a simple concept like the capacity for moral accountability is hard

>>21040776
Fpbp

>>21041216
What would be an example of a fundamental flaw in the belief system? Also why are you singling out monotheism here? Do you think pagan religions are more sensible?

>>21043623
> alan watts
Watts was an apostate Anglican “priest” who engaged in polyamory and then became a mouthpiece for the faux countercultural Pacifica radio. The heretical ramblings of a psychedelic influenced hippy are not in fact the “best explanation”

>>21046693
You are repenting to God for having sinned. Obviously you should try and right material wrongs you have caused, but that is not the same thing. A young child does not have the mental capacity for sophisticated psychological reasoning so the bullying example isn’t really relevant. In any case there is a distinction between spiritual wrongs (sins) and material wrongs (the worldly consequences of sins on others). Sins are the source of material wrongs and therefore take precedence of importance over them. You are right that many consequences of sin cannot be resolved in the world which is part of why Christs sacrifice is necessary to facilitate genuine reconciliation. Otherwise even a relatively moral person would still have the weight of a multitude of unresolvable debts by the time he dies. In some sense a sin is a crime against the universe insofar as it is a crime against God who generates and sustains the universe, which is a more significant stain on the sinner and the human race and the world than just the specific bad material effect on the other person.