/lit/ - Literature

Yes, yes, yes.

>>20766809
>learn nothing
>be an insufferable prick
Why would you want to "win" every argument so bad? Americans have such a weird conception of arguments. You guys either politely pretend to agree or do the equivalent of verbal kickboxing nothing in between.

>>20766809
No. no, no.

>>20766858
>Americans
Are these Americans in the room right now?

>>20766888
Kek.

>>20766858
Absolutely obsessed. You're just projecting negative character traits

>>20766809
Who tf cares about winning an argument every time? If you are getting into arguments a lot, you need to look in the mirror

>>20766908
I'm a law student,a total prick who wants to get into arguments all the time.

>>20766922
Well at least you’re honest and self aware. I’m mostly talking about average joes though

>>20766809
>>20766858
Sophistry bro.

>>20766901
You have no character.

>>20766809
If you really want to win arguments then stop arguing and start asking questions and listening, eventually they will hang themselves if they are wrong. You do risk actually learning something and discovering that you are the one who is wrong but you will not look like an arrogant moron and an asshole.

>>20766858
>>20766908
>Why would you want to "win" every argument so bad?
Practical reasons. You're right that the "Godzilla could beat the entire WWE" arguments are pointless, but life is full of arguments with real stakes.
To prevent further argument with your girlfriend or spouse as she begins to realize that any idea she presents, you can shut down.
To win tenders and negotiations "we can't afford to pay you an extra 10,000" "you can't afford NOT to"
To stop people from hassling you.
To get out of repaying (perceived) obligations or favors
Make it apparent to people that by doing you a favor they will get something out of it.
And then of course there is politics and social policy, provided you are in fact a civil servant or a political and not just some loser on facebook writing angry comment replies after having only read the headline of a article.

>>20768370
Someone who argues over all those things is an insufferable asshole.

>>20768381
Argue over which things? Are you saying that if you're negotiating a contract you accept whatever offer they give you, even if it's insultingly low, that you won't try to persuade them otherwise?
Does that work for you, are you materially comfortable in your life?

>>20768370
>Winning an argument factually with a female has an impact on the argument at all
Tell me you're autistic and single without telling me your autistic and single
>When I tell people "no" I have to argue further with them
What a beta cuck.
>I don't know how negotiation works at all
Obviously
>you did me a favor but I don't owe you shit
...so you're Jewish.
>and politics
Yup, autistic, Jewish beta cuck.

>>20768721
Nice try, have a (you)

There's a difference between being able to win any argument and actively trying to get into bullshit arguments over stuff that doesn't matter.
I can make a really good parmigiana, but I don't make it for every meal everyday.

>>20768872
>Food analogy

>>20766809
Does it teach you to win arguments against women?

>>20769702
Bet you can't come up with a more convincing analogy

Americans are fat, ugly, and dumb

>>20770337
you win this round...

>>20766809
I wasn't shocked to find most of the book consisted of how to employ psychiatric terminology as pejoratives dependent upon the true/false position of the other person agreeing with you or liking your likes without question.

I was more interested with his use of a falsely constructed "other world" existing in the arguers own mind where proofs cannot be applied and where truth depends on personal taste, subject to change at a moments notice, dependent upon whimsy.

It seems almost like a manifesto for an extremely cloistered young person who has not developed the faculties of logic and language to affirm themselves whilst maintaining an irrational hostility towards all other persons.

Or am I just parodying the average western politically-minded person and making a kind of a dry joke at the habit of idiocy they always espouse?

>>20766809
What happens if two readers of this book have an argument?

>>20769719
He cites a lot of West Asian religious scholars on the nuances of beating a woman into submission by way of a stick and psychological abuse; by forcing her to accept unconditionally that (some obviously false thing) is totally true; abusing her until she does, and to ten immediately change your opinion and beat her if she attempts to apply reason to the contradictory position you're now forcing her to agree with, but a lot of this doesn't really apply amongst Europeans, where the dynamics are always reversed.

>>20768425
>Someone says you're an insufferable retard for arguing about everything
>Argue like an insufferable retard about it
I think you've hit upon a winning strategy here, my freind. I advise you to keep at it and never bend or waver in your convictions as to its efficacy. I see many promotions in your future.

>>20768370
Good points, you convinced me

>>20766858

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmO-ziHU_D8

This is how Americans are taught to debate.

>>20771849
>This is how Americans are taught to debate.
en masse

>>20771849
What is wrong with her? Is she trying to rap in that debate?

Broke: arguing because you have no self control or theory of mind
Woke: arguing "to win"
Bespoke: not arguing.
this trichotomy has been brought to you by sincerity itself

>>20766809
>>20768370
You should read on persuasion rather than how to win an argument. It'll be better for you in both short and long term.

>>20766809
Euthydemus by Plato

>>20771097
How do you figure? More importantly: How often do you persuade people to give you what you want in life and work?
>>20772604
How often do you persuade people to give you what you want in life and work?
What is the different between persuasion and argumentation, didn't Aristotle say that Rhetoric was the antestrophe of dialectic? Isn't the argumentation essential to persuasion?
>>20772541
What do you do if someone is denying you something you want of them that is in their power to grant?

>>20771161
That's because you're wise

>>20768370
Obsessing about winning arguments is not practical. Rhetoric and social intelligence are practical.

>>20774102
>Rhetoric and social intelligence are practical.
Isn't argument part of rhetoric? Doesn't that make some argumentation (not all, not obsessing) but aren't there a lot of situations where it is practical and necessary to win arguments? If so, what would you personally do in those situations?

>>20766809
Schopenhauer: "The Art of being right" - though it's an ironic work, basically "how to do 19th century shitposting".

>>20774006
>What do you do if someone is denying you something you want of them that is in their power to grant?
I spend my time working towards and achieving my goal instead of begging for it

>>20766809
Read it and find out, op.

>>20774418
No you don't. I can tell by how vague your response is. How did you negotiate your last payrise? Wait don't tell me, you're poor because you don't know how to argue in your own self interest.