/lit/ - Literature

>>20731768
I truly love lord of the rings, and I admire Tolkein for his passion for working in it, but I can’t help but think Tolkien ultimately killed Fantasy as a genre, despite being its founding father. On one hand, he really was a one-of-a-kind writer that attempted to weave mythological narratives, medieval philosophy, into Britain's new mythology. Yet, all I see is hacks and plagiarist turning his work into nothing more than DnD generic with elves and dwarves. I don’t know if it was inevitable due to the age of consumerism, but it’s It's really sad that no one can surpass Tolkien.

>>20731861
I think there’s a lot of other stuff out there that isn’t like that anon. I’d recommend Book of the New Sun if you want something that feels wholly original.

>>20731861
Read Pratchett.

>>20731861
I feel you, anon. My feelings for Tolkien at mixed due to a variety of reasons, but you’re basically right. Fantasy pre-Tolkien was so much more naturally variegated and unique that Lord of the Rings was just one of many fantasy series published in its time. Nothing special. But in a post-Tolkien world? Any slight deviation from the norm his work established is perceived as a conscious choice to stand out. And I can't blame Tolkien for it because he didn't want this. He just had an autistic passion in a world he created as a child. I do know one thing, and it's that the authors who tried to emulate him killed fantasy.

>>20731895
I was planning on reading Wolfe in two weeks, but I wasn’t planning on reading Book of the New Sun, I was thinking of reading his lesser known books.

>>20731900
I was, and still am interested in reading Pratchett’s books, especially Discworld but when I ask more about them, all I got was that they were reddit. Which just confuses me.

>>20731940
It’s really sad that Tolkien’s passion project led to the stagnation and eventual decline of Fantasy. But that’s more on the new authors than in Tolkien.

>>20732048
Ignore people saying Pratchett is Reddit or whatever. Discworld's not necessarily as inventive as Tolkien, but they take what's initially sort of a parodic jab at Tolkien and shift it into something that's both a funny satire on narrative and the modern lifestyle, but also a compellingly crafted world in its own right. For example, plot magic is basically a 'thing' in Discworld. Stuff happens in Discworld BECAUSE that's how it happens in stories. Except a lot of the characters don't want that to happen, or it gets all twisty. Like the rightful king returns, except he doesn't actually wanna be king, so he'll just protect and serve the people as a policeman instead.

>>20732065
Pratchett was pretty much solid gold for me from 2000-07

>>20732065
>Ignore people saying Pratchett is Reddit or whatever
Already doing that, no need to worry.

>Discworld's not necessarily as inventive as Tolkien, but they take what's initially sort of a parodic jab at Tolkien and shift it into something that's both a funny satire on narrative and the modern lifestyle, but also a compellingly crafted world in its own right. For example, plot magic is basically a 'thing' in Discworld. Stuff happens in Discworld BECAUSE that's how it happens in stories. Except a lot of the characters don't want that to happen, or it gets all twisty. Like the rightful king returns, except he doesn't actually wanna be king, so he'll just protect and serve the people as a policeman instead.
Thanks for the explanation, anon. It seems extremely interesting and something I would enjoy reading.

>Ignore people saying Pratchett is Reddit or whatever
Already doing that, no need to worry. I got the sense they had no real argument and just use reddit as a byword of something they don’t like or understand.

>Discworld's not necessarily as inventive as Tolkien, but they take what's initially sort of a parodic jab at Tolkien and shift it into something that's both a funny satire on narrative and the modern lifestyle, but also a compellingly crafted world in its own right. For example, plot magic is basically a 'thing' in Discworld. Stuff happens in Discworld BECAUSE that's how it happens in stories. Except a lot of the characters don't want that to happen, or it gets all twisty. Like the rightful king returns, except he doesn't actually wanna be king, so he'll just protect and serve the people as a policeman instead.
Thanks for the explanation, anon. It seems extremely interesting and something I would enjoy reading on my free time. Are his other novels worth reading? Or should I just stick to Discworld?

>>20732065
>Ignore people saying Pratchett is Reddit or whatever
Already doing that, no need to worry. I got the sense they had no real argument and just use reddit as a byword of something they don’t like or understand.

>Discworld's not necessarily as inventive as Tolkien, but they take what's initially sort of a parodic jab at Tolkien and shift it into something that's both a funny satire on narrative and the modern lifestyle, but also a compellingly crafted world in its own right. For example, plot magic is basically a 'thing' in Discworld. Stuff happens in Discworld BECAUSE that's how it happens in stories. Except a lot of the characters don't want that to happen, or it gets all twisty. Like the rightful king returns, except he doesn't actually wanna be king, so he'll just protect and serve the people as a policeman instead.
Thanks for the explanation, anon. It seems extremely interesting and something I would enjoy reading on my free time. Are his other novels worth reading? Or should I just stick to Discworld?

>>20732173
I haven't read much of his other stuff outside of the Bromeliad which was sort of a fun children's book. I keep meaning to pick up Nation and Good Omens, though. Discworld is his sort of central work, though. Heads up, though, ignore people saying to skip the first two books, they're not as good, sure, but they're still good to see so you can see the world develop and grow over time.

>>20732177
>>20732178
That all said I've heard nothing but good stuff about Good Omens. He did a lot of other stuff too, but Discworld's a beast all on its own so probably focus on that.

Bakker is King.

Fuck Jannies.

Simple as.

Since there's actual discussion on this thread and not shitpost, I'll be posting here. Does anyone support newly self-publish authors on Amazon and on any other sites?

>>20732356
>Does anyone support newly self-publish authors on Amazon and on any other sites?
Yeah, I do support a few self-publish authors on Amazon and I'm supporting an anon who posts on /wg/ royal road story. I feel like it gives aspiring authors a chance, no matter how small.

>>20732178
>>20732213
Thanks for your posts, anon, they were really helpful and extremely insightful. I’ll take what you said with consideration. I wasn’t really expecting this much help on /sffg/. And I’m sorry I deleted my previous post. I posted it before it was ready.

>>20732356
>Does anyone support newly self-publish authors on Amazon and on any other sites?
No, but I was thinking of it for a while now. Don’t know where to start or to single out grifters. Not to mention that some of the authors price their books way too high sometimes, especially when they’re like less than two-hundred pages.

>>20732435
>I'm supporting an anon who posts on /wg/ royal road story
Any chance on you telling us the name of the story?

>>20732048
Discworld is very much Reddit and very much good. Just read it.
It's Reddit in that
- it's full of (pop cultural) references, to the point of depending on them for its structure
- it's funny in a way that's easy to quote and reference in turn
- it pushes the idea that there's no inherent meaning to the universe but it's good to construct your own
- people on reddit like it
But none of that is actually bad.
Discworld is great (but you should start with Mort or Guards, Guards! because the first two books are effectively in a different genre and the third isn't particularly good). His other (later) books are worth reading IMO but don't have exactly the same appeal.

Just read stormlight, books one and two were pretty good, book three was kind of downhill but my god what the actual fuck happened with book four? Jesus Christ did the twitter poz crowd lean on him or what? A nonstop barrage of mental health awareness, racial equality, female empowerment, faggotry and capeshit tier plot devices (infinitely worse than the previous books)

>>20732714
Stormlight's entire reputation is held up by virture of how good the ending of book one is followed by pretty much the entirety of book two. I got filtered by Oathbringer, war crime Dalinar was kino though.

Read Wolfe.
Read Tolkien.
Read Herbert.
Read Bakker.

>>20732749
>Read Wolfe.
rules supreme
>Read Tolkien.
rules supreme
>Read Herbert.
rules supreme
>Read Bakker.
Bakker will never rule supreme

You're meaning to tell me that THIS isn't South America?

>>20732816
no shit he said it himself

>>20732827
I was responding to this.

>>20732600
>Discworld is very much Reddit
I don’t care, anon. It’s something I don’t care

>>20732749
Herbert is the only one I haven’t yet where to start?

>>20732884
Book of the New Sun (Its divided into four books)

>>20732884
With Dune.

>>20732921
>>20732884
Read only Frank's own books, of which there are six in the Dune franchise.

Dune is a 2.5/5 for me

>>20732945
How many books did you read

>>20731861
Cringe. Read more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJcVLxRtDms

>>20732714
>>20732748
I just couldn't continue reading the series after Oathbringer. It really pisses me off because I really like the first two books. I'll be rereading those ones. I'll never buy another book from Sanderson.

>>20732956
I was referring to the book titled Dune, ie the first. Does the series peak later?

>>20733163
>>20732925

>>20733163
You should at least read Dune Messiah, it's essentially the final 'part' of the first book rather than a true sequel.

>>20732749
Read Vance.

Water sleeps

>>20733399
Correct.

>>20733654
Porn for women

>>20732945
Not a fan of how it's written but I'd never give it a 5. Deserves at least a high 7 for its originality and great characters.

Why do you consider sci-fi and fantasy to be the superior genres of literature?

Would you recommend Blindsight for someone who has autism?

>>20733774

>>20732749
A toast!

>>20733813
Not for that reason, but yes.
Also The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect.

>>20733831
who's the no-man without skin?

>>20733917
The Sandersoys in the thread.

>>20733917
The IYI

>>20733101
>>20732714
>>20732748
For the "fast food" quality type of his books, I actually like Sando. But Rhythm of War was so bad (somehow even worse than Oathbringer) that I couldn't even finish the book. I am never touching anything from him again.

He bit more than he could chew. That's a reoccurring issue with him. He has these overly ambitious original projects that took him well over 20 years to idealise, but only had the best ideas and main plots and outlines for the first 2 books. After that, he's just running on fumes and his massive outline. Characters have no agency in his novels, and he has this obsessive retarded OCD paranoia where he literally feels like he has to write over a thousand pages per book.

Sanderson, as a written, is an absolute tragedy. For me at least. He could be writing consistently at a slower pace and still be pumping out cool easy to read stories. Even if they make movies about his series, you just know that they will be absolute CGI dogshit and shit on the original material (And I'm not even sure that's a bad thing in this case.

>>20734037
I should've known something was wrong when Rhythm of War just... Repeated Kaladin's character arc again. Like, this is a recurring problem with Stormlight, characters just have the one arc again and again. Kaladin fights with depression until he doesn't, Dalinar wrestles with the weight of what he's done until he doesn't, Shallan has self-worth and identity issues until she doesn't, etc.

>>20734054
Kaladin has been fighting with himself since book number 1.

>Say the words
Absolutely fucking cringe and unoriginal after a while. It's just too fucking retarded.

What killed it for me was how fucking retarded Navani was. I just gave up at that point.

>>20732714
Thanks for the sacrifice anon. I read the first book long ago. Was wondering if I should continue but now I won't bother with it. Pozzed bullshit is just unbearable to me.

>>20734063
Sando somehow manages to turn PTSD into a caricature of what it really is. Same with gay characters. It's not even that it's pozzed, or that he's trying to be. It's just pure cringe.

>>20734037
>he has this obsessive retarded OCD paranoia where he literally feels like he has to write over a thousand pages per book.
At this point he does. It's become his brand and his fans will feel cheated if they aren't getting 50+ hours out of one of his books. I don't think he could get away with a solid afternoon potboiler if he wanted to now.

Any books like this?

>>20734074
Kek. I heard/read somewhere that he actually has lgbt people giving him advice on how to write gay characters.

He's that much of a mormon that he probably never read actual literature that is either written by gay men, or has homosexual men in it.

>>20731861
Read Eddison or Lord Dunsany, George MacDonald, William Morris. Lots of Englishmen wrote fantasy, not just Tolkien.

>>20734092
Tipsy Pelican Tavern series.

>>20734103
I hate this idea of Tolkien as a "founding father" of fantasy. He wasn't even the first to write an epic quest.

>>20731861
>despite being its founding father

He really was not and I hate that this is the common perception.

>>20734147
>>20734127
NTA, but he is the OG of "modern" fantasy.

>>20734127
He's the guy who became popular. I guess it was a right place, right time kind of thing, but LotR also has the right kind of format to catch on with the right kind of audience. Most other authors had one famous work or multiple unconnected ones. Nobody autistically made a fictional history like Tolkien did, and devoted their whole career and all their time to it. It's fertile ground for nerd-dom.

I saw an anon here mention reading Flowers For Algernon by Daniel Keyes, so I decided to do the same because it was on my backlog for years now. The book was brutal. Thoroughly unpleasant. It was like reliving my childhood and every embarrassing thing I've ever done in my life all over again. I never knew I was a retard. It's either the best or worst book I've ever read. I can't decide.

>>20734191
What other Author would be the closest to have the influence on fantasy literature comparable to Tolkien? I'm not talking about popularity, I mean a work so popular and renowned universally that people can help but start emulating. Sanderson is an example of someone who isn't such person, his work is incredibly derivative and uninspired. He has some curiosities in his writings, but there is nothing truly noticable, nothing that awes people and inspires them in turn.

Martin and his ASOIAF also doesn't fit, although his autistic focus on medieval history and warfare (I know he was drawing from medieval and further time period, I'm just simplifying) combined with interesting handling of classic tropes elevates his work higher. But it's still not enough. Even Hunger Games achieved more cultural significance. Kingkiller is just well-written power fantasy for young men, nothing particularly worth attention aside of entertainment value.
The only author that I can think of is Terry Pratchett. His brand of humorous and satirical style of writing is incredibly gripping, and spawned a sea of imitators. No one comes close in influence this era. In a way, Pratchett's legacy might be similar to Martin's as the Discworld series appears to be somewhat unfinished, you can feel that there were still dozens of stories to be told in the universe. And yet, what's already written swept people off their feet and continues to do so to this day. No one would treat Pratchett's the same way as Martin's.

Good Silk. Fish heads?

>>20734286
>What other Author would be the closest to have the influence on fantasy literature comparable to Tolkien?
Homer.

>>20734074
The most overt gay character in Stormlight is basically just based on a gay friend he has. A lot of the more minor Bridge Four guys are based on his friends.

>>20734351
My issue with it, is that it's using character tokens to fill a quota is offensive. It's not even that those characters fall under a stereotype, it's just that they are pure cringe based on his idealisation of what such characters are. He's a shit writer who clearly doesn't read enough to write about homosexuals in his novels. I'd rather him not having any gay characters at all.

>>20731895
How do I enjoy fiction after reading New Sun. Nothing comes close prose-wise.

>>20734298
>Touch woman?
Oreb no!

>>20734147
>>20734151
They're talking about fantasy as a genre. Before Tolkien people referred to "fantasy" as fairy tales, but now we retrospectively call them fantasy even though at the time they didn't use that term when marketing books, even The Hobbit was called a fairy tale and didn't use "fantasy". It wasn't until the 50s with The Lord of the Rings did people start using fantasy as a marketing term for books.

Any actually good scifi written by black people?

>>20734286
They'd have to have been published after WW2, cause that's when genre fiction was becoming popular in America. The scifi golden age was basically during WW2 and really took off afterwards.
There have been influential authors before and after but Tolkien and high fantasy is a big one, huge one. There's a guy H. Rider Haggard who had a long running series and popularized the "lost world" subgenre, and like a lot of these other guys wrote in Victorian England and was very popular there but it's not the same magnitude of cultural impact as 50s America which is the time and place Tolkien caught on. Robert E. Howard and Lovecraft are some others, very influential to their respective subgenres to say the least.
ER Eddison and Lord Dunsany are two contemporaries of Tolkien (Dunsany was active early enough to influence him) who did similar things in terms of creating fictional mythologies, Eddison was similarly a Norse scholar as well, but neither of them were as prolific in their fantasy worldbuilding and I don't think they have as much cross-cultural appeal or the more easily replicable format that LotR has. Dunsany is the sort of guy who "influenced the influencers."

>>20734298
I finished Return to the Whorl yesterday, read it fast cause I was so invested, and it was a bit overwhelming. Wolfe really takes the reader's training wheels off for that one and stops spelling things out, which is appropriate for the end of the Solar Cycle but I found it harder to absorb than Blue/Green to put it lightly.
One frustrating thing was how Horn refused to acknowledge that he's become Silk which is perfectly understandable, it's just that it's like getting teased with everybody dancing around the fact and sparing him his feelings when what I'd really like is for them to talk about it openly.

>>20734103
>>20734127
they're all shit compared to Tolkien

Bakker > Tolkien

>>20734620
This, but unironically.

>>20734389
Stop reading anything except for New Sun.
>>20732884
Don't read Dune. It is really not as good as people claim it is. It's not bad or anything, it's just not fun. Every book talks about characters having long dialogues in between events you'd actually want to read about.

>>20734643
>Every book talks about characters having long dialogues in between events you'd actually want to read about.
Your zoom zoom post made me unironically want to read it.

Elia of Dorne. I killed her screaming whelp. Then I raped her. Then I smashed her fucking head in. Like this.

Any entertaining "fast food" fantasy with a lot of odd things, like bobiverse but fantasy instead of sci-fi.
I'm incapable of reading Stephen King and Stormlight. I need actual cool stuff to imagine and follow.

>>20733853
Metamorphosis is a really great short story. For anyone looking for a small read that takes place during the Singularity and after check it out. I am reading House of Suns right now and God damn I love Reynolds

>>20734248
Nice that was me anon...it's the best book I've read in a while mostly because it was pretty character driven (and I'm over here mostly reading stuff like Egan or Stephenson who is weak with characters). Charlie's issues with women reminded me of myself in my teen years. But yea I thought the book had a lot of good things to say about emotional intelligence, academia being a bit pigeon holed, and past memories (and how they shape your present). I can safely recommend this book to all anons here. But with that said, I'm onto House of Suns by Reynolds. Then Use of Weapons by Banks.

>>20734731
Thank you for that then. Yeah I think I'm going for some light reading after this. I need a break. That book was just too heavy for me.

hes all around let me tell you
different thread — every thread
mind your post it might be deleted
if you dont agree with the anime poster
to the janny army he’s enlisted
thats the way of business
i mean
you gotta tread carefully
you never know
when to shitpost
is the janny yet sleeping
all aboard the cringe train hear me out now
many generals ruined but what of it
son let me the eternal lurker tell you
every board was ruined for the start
like lukewarm water it never tastes nice
no it does not
and besides i was never looking for quality
fuck that and all the rest
I just wanted to post my opinion and troll on bakker’s behest
what can i say its not allowed
the eternal anime poster keeps watch all year round
science fiction and fantasy
writing general and let me tell you
in other boards as well
teevee and tabletop what else
how many threads can one autist keep track of
I wonder and shout out his name out
moogy moogy where is the end to it
i wont read reverend insanity
trust me no I wont sir I want have it
water does not sleep like hell it does
I post it again like I always do
read bakker
you are banned
as usual I cannot appeal
see you in 72 hours

>>20734604
They're better. LotR is pretty boring.

How weird would it be if Cersei marries Robert Strong? I think that's how it will go in the books, she'll marry Strong after the trial because he's a walking corpse easy to control and manipulate, then implement Dornish Law as a final middle finger to King's Landing then run off to Casterly Rock when Aegon and co arrive. Everyone thinks the Winds epilogue will be Wall coming down but I think that will happen mid-book, the epilogue will be Cersei arriving in Casterly Rock

>>20734941
Cersei won't marry him because it doesn't serve the plot in any way.

>>20734286
>What other Author would be the closest to have the influence on fantasy literature comparable to Tolkien?
I can't think of a reason why Robert E. Howard wouldn't count

>>20734941
Literally never coming out

Fantasy was more interesting pre-Tolkien. I like Tolkien as much as the next guy but the man did both good and bad for it, pre-Tolkien fantasy had far more uniqueness, and a lot more variety. Now everyone wants some next big LOTR or Ice and Fire style series

>author decides to edit some previous works to fit in an overall universe
>refuses to elaborate
Hell yeah.
Marrow was a good read. Maybe I'll write a review post sometime. Now I'm reading a few short stories set chronologically before the next novel. I plan to read everything I can find about this damn Great Ship now.

And suddenly his cock was out, jutting upward from his breeches like a fat pink mast.

>>20735193
Yeah, before Tolkien everyone was copying Dunsany or Howard. So unique, much variety.

It's clear who the exultants and the armigers are, but who are the opimates?

See you in 3 days bros

>>20735301
Wealthy commoners. Not nobility, but still part of the aristocracy. Perhaps the fourth child of a lowborn armigier who didn't inherit a title, or a wealthy merchant family.

>>20735193
Fantasy post-Bakker is more interesting, he revolutionized the genre and made it more sublime and philosophized , he integrated Nietzschian supremacy into fantasy and did it in a non-unbased way, unlike others like Black Company and what not.

>>20734389
Gormenghast might scratch that itch. I'd also recommend looking at Michael Cisco and Brian Catling for something contemporary.

>>20734389
Cormac McCarthy.

Imagine a future where fantasy comes from procedural generation a la Dwarf Fortress. Eventually we should have programs that automatically do everything people like Tolkien did (languages, names, history, geography, races, etc.) just as well but without any labor. Does everyone only care about the world they generate or do they exchange worlds and the job of author becomes curator?

Question about lotr: When the mouth of Sauron presents Gandalf with the items of Sam and Frodo why didnt he or Sauron check to make sure they were indeed dead, who they were and wtf they were doing there?

How did Fang Yuan get Heavenly Will’d so hard? Was he a pawn from the very start or did he only become a pawn once he used the Spring Autumn Cicada?

>>20735841
Fang Yuan is no pawn, Fang Yuan rules supreme over the will of heavens.

>>20735841
He was initially a pawn used to stop SSDV's 100k year plan of refining rank 10 (or 9, cant remember) Sovereign Immortal Fetus Gu, which in the original timeline, allowed him to accumulate power unhindered by Heavenly Court, and may have eventually succeeded at "destroying" Fate Gu.

Fang Yuan had poor luck, and it was implied that his reliance on Blood Path Gu was an effort by Heaven's Will to force him to refine SAC. SAC itself was "gifted" to him, so he was a pawn from the very beginning. To elaborate, FY was able to refine and use the Gu with 100% success because Heaven's Will was protecting him. This is also why he seemingly is able to spam the Gu with no consequences initially, but after stealing SIF Gu, needs to use the same Time Path Killer moves as RLDV.

This is also why he gets hunted down so heavily, as FY becomes a complete otherworldly demon in both body and soul after stealing SIF Gu, making him the greatest threat to Fate Gu.

>>20735841
It wasn't Heaven's Will, it was basically everyone at once. And probably the reason it was him is just that they tried shitloads of other people and they all died or failed at some point along the line.
Really, everyone is a pawn, not just him. The entire population of the world was placed there as a result of ancient schemes. Everyone and everything is part of the plan in some way.

>>20735851
>>20735992
>>20736003
How far do you think Fang Yuan would have gotten had he been born in earlier periods, such as the Olden Antiquity or Medieval Antiquity period, without being the pawn of heaven?

>>20736020
He would have gone far, but a main point of the novel is that FY exploits the people who try to use him as a pawn. It would have been much harder to become a venerable on his own if he did not have access to all the inheritances (GSIV, RLDV, THDV, Dream Path, Lang-ya, etc), but of course, he would also be free of Heavenly Court's pursuit and the machinations of the revived Venerables. Heavenly Court considers FY a threat because of his personality, and fear him not because of SAC, but because of his potential for growth if left unhindered.

FY is not the most talented, but he is the most determined ( Perseverance Gu comes to mind), and it is his ability to maximize benefits under any circumstances that makes him special.

>>20736020
It's highly questionable whether he would have managed to survive long enough to harden his personality, but if he did it was inevitable that he'd rise to the top. He'd be very constrained though, and it would take a lot longer and be a lot harder to reach. The three lifetimes formation proves that no matter what situation he's born into, whether a slave or a prince, he'd eventually show his true colors, it's just a matter of time.

Any mil sci-fi kino based around tank shit that isn't Hammer's Slammers?

>>20736152
how about small exosuit + norse mythology-inspired god shenanigans in a pocket planetverse
by the same author

>>20736238
No. I want tanks.

>>20736242
Fair enough anon.
On a related note, the drama behind World of Tanks is hilarious.

>>20735841
>>20735992
One theory is that Fang Yuan is STILL a pawn of Heaven's Will, as he's currently the champion of the demihumans (who the true, non-venerable-manipulated Heaven's Will wants to take power again) and the leading user of Heaven path, while the leading Human faction Heavenly Court is contesting him while focusing on Human path.

>>20736144
I forgot all about the three lifetimes, that's a really good point.

>dungeon crawler carl
>everyone gets a fantasy race in the dungeon
>YoU cAn BeCoMe AnYtHiNg
>"being a neutral good human fighter is too boring, I'll be the super mysterious ancient race with unlimited potential that keeps my appearance exactly the same instead, as a neutral good fighter"
Fuck youuuuuuu

>>20736578
They make it a point that the vast majority of Crawlers don't actually change their race because it's a fucking permanent decision. A few take Primal just for the potential long-term gains, but that's the intended 'gameplay design' of it, it gets a bunch of stat penalties but can get any skill to max.

I just got to the part of Blood Music where shit gets real. Damp hands lol how is the world not going to end?

>>20736615
If it were a floor 0 decision I would agree, but it happens at floor 3 and the dungeon actively selects against the type of person that seeks safety and familiarity in extreme danger situations. Also in scaling terms compromising stats by picking an antistat generalist race and low combat stat generalist class yet remaining remotely viable relative to dungeon scaling let alone a self proclaimed "tank" would be a borderline plothole if not for the fact that Carl never has normal fights anyway.

But the real issue is: Why even have the universal race change mechanic when you're just going to bend the plot over backwards to justify the protagonist being a totally-not-humie anyway?

>>20731895
I'm about 100 pages away from finishing Urth and it's been one of the best things I've read. Absolute classic and deserves to be named alongside LotR as one of "The Greats"

What is Mr Sanderson's best book?

Just because a fantasy writer has success doesn't mean he is better, most of the times less readers is better

>Sanderson
Loved by redditors and women for the fantasy setting, also easy to read so extremely mainstream audience
>Bakker
niche, sophisticated and intimidating enough to gatekeep mainstream readers, the readers have to have sense of aristocracy to progress through the book and understand the power of Bakker.

>>20736798
Bakker is a pretentious retard who was too stupid to figure out the kickstarter route to sell those books his publishers rejected

Thousand Orcs
And some Into The Void was cool
Also, some kind of religious book for children that was like an awesome RPG

>>20735567
the book kind of explains it
the runner containing frodos belongings was the last orc to leave the tower alive. they thought frodo was an elvish spy, but could get no more information
sauron had the mouth show off his loot to strike despair into the hearts of men, demanding that aragorn and co surrender if they don't want the spy to get tortured or some such
the men are suitably despaired and weren't exactly chatting up the mouth about details about the spy

Just finished pic related. Can't say I was a big fan of the ending (reminded me too much of GRRM), but it didn't come out of nowhere and it certainly made me interested enough to continue reading the series when the next book drops.

>>20736818
When Bakker fires up his kickstarter page it's over for sandersois, because Bakkerbros and crypto investing corpo empire building CEO/CFO gym dwelling overlords and they will make rule supreme as the most funded fantasy writer.

I represent the majority of tolkien consumers born around 90 - 00. Ive seen the movies innumerable times and i want to also read it. I know tolkien can be read with silmarillion first or last.

What would lit recommend? I kinda know the mythos but never dived deep. Is it worth to start with silmarilion and end wirh the return of the king?

>>20736771
Words of Radiance, hands down

>>20735841
he was always just an extra card in fate's back pocket

Testing?

>>20737085
Oh shit sorry I thought vp9 webms were still blocked

>>20737089
retard-chama

>>20737089
you're forgiven but only if you give the sauce

Looks like I'm late to the discussion again.
Cradle 11 came out and it seems it ends with the next book.
What was the reception here?
Personally I liked it more than the last two books and I'm looking forward to the finale.

>>20737109
eh it was okay. IMO about on par with reaper and better than bloodline

>>20737109
I didn't even bother reading it
Cradle peaked at Wintersteel and everything after was a letdown desu
Probably gonna wait for the series to finish before I touch Cradle again

>>20737042
Read it last, it's like a history of middle earth type of thing, but in short stories form and it's really dry because it wasn't meant to be released in this state, it was like his notes for the lore of middle earth. its readable but its better to read it last.

>>20737188
Thanks. I will begin chronologically then

Yeah I'm thinking Dungeon Crawler Carl is not for me. I can look past all the reddit humor in book 1, because not taking itself seriously at least implies that the story is backseat to the dungeon crawling game. Book 2 the pacing goes to absolute shit with the entire fucking book being spent on a single floor, the RPG mechanics evaporate into irrelevance as usual while typical dramantasy writing takes its place, protagonist degrades from a confused musclehead into an unlikable sadsack with daddy issues while also stealing the party face role from the cat in all interactions that matter, rendering her character pointless just to emphasize protag's sueness. Typical bait and switch """"litRPG"""" like DotF.

>>20737218
What is a litRPG. It sounds insanely autistic.

>>20737218
Book 2 of DCC is the worst in the series, I'll give you that. I almost dropped it there. It gets back to good after it, though.

Read cradle

>>20737248
What it's supposed to be: fantasy that attempts to emulate the experience of building an interesting RPG character
What it ends up being the vast majority of the time: a couple setting gimmicks that always stop mattering by chapter 50 once amateur webnovelists think you're hooked in far enough they can sell you their """"""""""""""plot""""""""""""""""

>>20737254
A that a self insert of a negroid female author with a love for a nonexistant towering japanese male?

>>20737266
I don't understand. The novel is simply about making an RPG characer?

Bloat: The book
Why do so many Sci Fi Fantasy books have so much unnecessary bloat? Sun Eater suffered from the same problem. I don't want to read multiple paragraphs about how some magical FTL engines work, just give me a tightly written, well paced book with serviceable character work.

>>20737283
heh nothin personnel kid

>>20737280
Usually it's about a fantasy settings where people acquire powers in a very similar structure and methodology to an RPG character. Only for the first 50 chapters though. Then it just becomes fighting bad guys and saving the world faggotry.

>>20737318
Got this was so shit. I refuse to believe anyone under 16 unironically enjoys reading this shit

>>20737407
*over 16*

>>20737318
SFF book covers are so unbelievably trash lmao.

>>20737338
I see. Seems inevitable that it'd end up that way. That's how most RPGs go too.

Apparently, Eragon is getting Disney tv show adaptation.

>>20737424
They must really be running out of graves to rob at this point.

>>20737422
The main focus of RPGs that have a playtime over 10 hours (AKA not walking sims) is usually the character building and loot engine. Particularly MMOs, which are the first RPG type that comes into mind when you say "everyone in the setting has levels and is subject to the skill system".

Anyone read this?

>>20737109
I didn't even bother reading it
Cradle peaked at Ghostwater and everything after Underlord was a letdown
>>20737218
I am glad I read DCC and did not perceive it in the way that this anon did.

>>20737505
>taking an entire book to do a single floor is a matter of perception

are people actually reading these chinked litrpg novels or this this some kind of giant joke I'm not in on

>try out DCC
>very first chapter is about MC being cucked
Why is western fantasy like this? No really, why?

>>20737593
Builds character

>>20737597
>I was brainfucked by boomers into thinking cuckoldry is a good thing
Sounds about right.

>>20731861
>>20731940
Moorcock is the real culprit.
Moorcock and DnD itself.

>>20737547
That specific part was not, no.
On another note, your post is funny because there's an anon who seemed to have liked the book, or maybe thought it was okay at the very least yet he hated Donut.

>>20737424
Even if it's a mediocre series, I've always loved the magic system in this. Now I'm tempted to do a reread...

>>20734061
>>20734054
>>20734037
RoW is flagrantly the result of over-consulting (with Shad, sensitivity coaches, inner circle fans, his editor, random community members, Twitter, etc) and I have an inkling he kind of felt that with just how deep he went with his credits.
I also kinda feel like he might be going through a crisis of his actual IRL faith.

Also turning the surly scholar spinster who advised caution above all else into a bubbly I LOVE SCIENCE parody just SUCKED.

Any good fantasy books about immortal warrior castes?

>>20737624
Donut after, or even just by the end of, book 1 is a shitty and pointless character. She has higher INT but INT doesn't actually make you smarter, she has disgustingly high CHA yet CHA does literally nothing in a fucking story about showboating in a death game, she has higher STR that never gets used. She has higher DEX that just makes sure her magic missiles don't miss. The author basically had to make stats do nothing to shoehorn the overpowered cat into a plucky sidekick comic relief role.

>>20737692
>she has disgustingly high CHA yet CHA does literally nothing [...]
cheaper prices from innkeepers and merchants.
stopped reading there since you clearly stopped reading early on

>>20737042
>silmarillion
Not canon.

>>20737704
Took three (3) floors to gain that obvious placeholder bonus. You may as well point out that it gives her resistance against the one mental attacking minor enemy encounter in each book.

>>20736798
>The readers have to have sense of aristocracy to progress through the book and understand the power of Bakker.

This is so gay hahahhha

>>20736798
>, the readers have to have sense of aristocracy to progress through the book
Anon. My guy. It's fantasy.

What Bakker book should I start with? Or should I go with Gene Wolfe?

Just finished these, it's been a long month but it's now at the top of my favorite series. The tone change for me was huge since I normally like more gritty stuff, like TBC/second apocalypse/Malazan. Not that this doesn't have very brutal parts to it.

I loved it.

>The Farseer trilogy
Such a solid trilogy even on its own. It did take me a bit to get into it, but when I did I couldn't really stop reading.

>The Liveship Traders
Such a huge shift from the previous 3 books in so many ways that it was a bit jarring. I found a lot of the bingtown stuff a bit tedious, but the boat stuff was great. Kennit and Wintrow were easily my favorite PoVs, especially kennit. I don't think iv ever read a 'villain' pov like his before.

>The Tawny Man
I really like a lot of the wit stuff and it's a pity that it's never fully explored where that comes from. The ending of this trilogy was really satisfying too with Fitz going back to courting molly.

>The Rain Wild Chronicles
The weakest of all the books for me. This should have been only 3 books I think. It also had my least favorite PoV characters. I wish we had a Rapskal pov, and more Selden would have been better.

>The Fitz and the Fool
The last two books might be my favorite of the whole series, especially with how they close off the arcs of so many characters. The ending was really bittersweet. Up until the very end I really thought that bee would save Fitz from the maggots. Bee's journey dragged a bit but I think it was important.

>>20737769
The unholy consult, just read some SparkNotes for the previous books you don't miss much. Bakkers never gonna continue the series anyway.

>>20737769
Start with "The Darkness That Comes Before", and don't touch Wolfe, he is a writer for peasants and peasants only, a true aristocrat would never take him seriously, he is named after Jackals and lived a life of peasantry like his forefathers.

>>20737786
The fitz and the Fool>Liveship Traders>Farseer trilogy>tawny man>>>>rain wild chronicles

>>20737792
>Decends from cucks that wake up at 3am to work in a bakehouse for their superiors

>>20737709
Cope

>>20737790
Doesn't fill me with much optimism that so many of his books can be almost entirely skipped.

>>20737835
Don't know what you expected, it's a series, why would you ask if you should start halfway through?
May as well just start at the last book and read a recap of all the ones that came before.


Like I said, your not gonna miss much.

>>20731768
Hey anons, I'm half way through writing a fantasy book set in the Midwest. Kind of like a return to the iron age after thousands of years of depopulation and such (not really readily revealed through the writing itself just world building for me to help write my story about a group of mercenaries in the great lakes). There are fantasy races and I've used genetic engineering to kind of explain why there are different very distinct races / extremely different environments and adaptation.

Can anyone think of a semi scientific reason that actual magic would exist? I've considered psychics and even classic voodoo style witchcraft but I am just looking to have a loose magic system with some bizarre futuristic explanation.

>>20737869
>Can anyone think of a semi scientific reason that actual magic would exist? I've considered psychics and even classic voodoo style witchcraft but I am just looking to have a loose magic system with some bizarre futuristic explanation.
If you want a "realistic" magic system with "futuristic" explanations you need to stop looking at fantasy and fantasy writers and instead start looking at conspiracy theorists.
Paracast, Higherside Chats & Spirit Science are a good first step for getting you started.
The best magic worldbuilding comes from people who make money off their worldbuilding rather than their stories, and that's new age occultists moreso than fiction authors.

>>20737868
It struck me that he has several different series.

>>20737869
Nanobotes or something similar that is so advanced as to be considered magic, that's a classic trope. Otherwise you can cook up some bullshit basing it on philosophy, like 'World is actually maleable by Human Will and can be influenced by it,' or 'The only real building element of the world is information, there is nothing concrete.' A lot of ways to do this, if you are creative. I personally dislike 'psychics,' it just seems uninspiried and boring to me. You can always improve upon it, though, do something more than mundane telepathy.

>>20737889
The problem with psychis is the same as with regular wizards. In both cases it was meant to come as the result and extension of (self) knowledge.
That's what gave it flair.

>>20737869
Man discovered aliens in space
Aliens shared magic from other universe
Shared by blood transfusion to man
Mankind prospers
Mankind kills earth cos man
Magic is now passed down through dna

>>20737904
Bloodborne already did it.

>>20737869
Vril. There are people who can set things on fire with their hands and make women orgasm without touching them.

>>20734037
To me the SA was mostly the Kaladin story, and in RoW Sanderson made a critical mistake by baiting and switching me into thinking Kaladin gonna progress as level-headed psychiatrist and future ambassador between Humans and Parshendi, but then forcing him to be the same reckless retard from WoK who run and fought around Urithiru for another 600 pages.

It WAS lazy. Im not even sure im gonna read the 5th book

i have 8 races, 5 of them are fairly important to the plot but might be folded up into 4 races if i wanted to (light and dark elf just become elf).
however the 3 other races are not really super involved in the backstory.

basically it all revolves around elves and dwarves who have some internal problems but create a fairly advanced society.
then however, some bad things happen and civilization collapses, the story takes place in the ruins of the advanced civilization.

one of the events is that some shamanistic primitive giants fuck with the spirit world to try get more powerful to be able to stand up against the elves technological advancements. however they screw up and let loose a bunch of spirits and demons and the land starts becoming alien and weird. i could probably chalk this up as being members of the elves who wanted to go back to their old ways of being in touch with nature rather than living in a technological world, rather than an entire race of giants. or i could keep it as it is or try to bring giants into the backstory of the world more? what do you think?

the other two are just a furry race and a scalie race who i thought might work since they were already very primitive and would probably not be affected by the collapse of civilization but maybe that's just extra fat

>>20738047
We don’t give two shits, fuck off to the writing general.

>>20737869
i think if you want magic to be "as real as it gets" then have it be based off of the ways ancient shamans used to do it since the dawn of man.

basically, to understand the world better they would purposefully warp their mind by for example not sleeping, not eating, not having sex, and of course, taking psychedelics. they would then perform rituals where they attempted to "become or embody something" to understand it. they would wear the skin of a deer, maybe it's skull and would become the deer over several hours.

because their mind was altered and they were no longer thinking like a human normally does, it allowed them to actually gain a deeper understanding of the animal and how it behaved which then helped them when it came to tracking and hunting the animal. this is something that has been documented as happening all over the world in countless tribes.

you might be able to base some sort of soft magic around warping your brain and "embodying" animals or concepts to gain an understanding of how to manipulate them temporarily or something i don't know.

>>20738047
I'd say you should ask yourself what do you want to write about more? Personally, I think it'd be fun to write about giants fighting elves and such or to write about whatever seems more fun. Is your story centered on characters or is it more like an overarching history of your fantasy world?

what do you guys think about the Kyralia series by Trudi Canavan? is it worth reading? what am i in for?

>>20738099
thanks, currently is more of an overarching history to establish the world and give me something to work with. i'm mostly doing it so the game i am making will have some semblance of a story

>>20737812
By working with the nobles and baking for them, they achieved a level of sophistication that allowed them to forge the most supreme fantasy ever. unlike the likes of Wolfes, named after a breed of jackals.

>>20738124
Cool! Lots of writers do the overarching history first for world building and then insert characters. The Hobbit only gave glimpses of the world and focused more on Bilbo. It is incredible how massive Tolkien's history of middle earth was even before the Lord of the Rings series.

>>20737109
I thought the last third of the book was a little rushed to set up Waybound. Overall a solid book, but probably below Reaper in terms of quality. Wight's character-writing still remains strong, but due to the split up of the group we get to see less of it (though we do see pairings we usually don't get to, Ziel/Orthos was fun). Also Emriss felt weirdly anticlimactic in showing up because she had like 10 lines but apparently offscreened a whole plan with Lindon.

>>20737318
800 pages of the plot not actually resolving, it's kinda incredible in a terrible way. Somebody did a chart comparing normal books, Bastion and Iron Prince and it was, like, normal books were 3-act structure, Bastion was the 3-act structure twice in a row, and Iron Prince was just a first act with no resolution.

>>20737593
>Carl is cheated on
>Calmly ends the relationship immediately upon finding out
I think that's about the most logical response you can have. He just goes "Oh, well, fuck off then". He doesn't cling to it, try to win her back, she cheated, it's over.

>>20738203
I couldn't even read Game Of Thrones because I felt like things were less resolved and so much was going on. I typically prefer sword and sorcery or short story style fantasy. Sometimes it feels like authors are releasing material not to read but to just make it into a series. Not a fan of unresolved conflict or constantly dragging out a story.

>>20738208
He's probably the same retard normalfag who thinks Carl not having great parents makes him a "sad sack".

>>20738224
Carl's mostly a mad sack.

>>20738254
Exactly. Carl doesn't have time to be sad and fuel is constantly poured on him, making him madder and madder.

>>20738271
Honestly I like how quickly Carl establishes himself as somebody who will just put his foot down and say "No" when circumstances allow it. Donut bitches out at him moments after learning to talk? He just says "Okay, fine, I'm leaving, bye".

>>20738110
It's good fun, bought the books when I was like 13 and it's one of the only series from that age that I've gone back to.
Sequel trilogy isn't as good (feels like she was told to write one by the publisher rather than having it planned but it's still good)
Everything she wrote up to Thief's Magic is very readable, that was the first book I struggled with.
Not the most action heavy author, character writing is really her strongpoint and she's smart enough to make that the bulk of her novels. Because of this strength she's one of the few multi-pov authors who've managed to make me read without desperately wanting one pov to end so I can get back to another.

>>20737593
Have you never read any of the foundational works of the western canon? Like half of them feature guys being cheated on.
(Incidentally I only just realised like 4 years after reading on it that KJ Parker's Devices and Desires is riffing on Penelope in The Odyssey)

>>20738377
thanks for the exhaustive reply anon

>>20738286
He is a realized character, as someone else was posting about threads back, and it is refreshing to see. He only has a certain amount of tolerance for anything.

>>20738413
Yeah, I'm reading another of Dinniman's books, Dominion of Blades, and while its protagonist isn't quite as realised as Carl, Jonah is still clearly his own person as opposed to just being an audience vehicle. Not sure I'd be up for reading any of Dinniman's other series, though, DoB just isn't quite up to snuff and the other stuff he's done don't seem too appealing.

>>20737042
>I know tolkien can be read with silmarillion first or last.
Only a tard born after 90 would think this. The Silmarillion is completely optional and absolutely should not be read before The Hobbit and LotR unless you're just trying to be a special snowflake to impress strangers on the Internet.

>>20738424
I wanted to check out some of his other works but I had a feeling they were a bit... less, than DCC was/is. I normally dislike authors who write multiple series at one time but I'm hoping he sticks to DCC and finishes it before going back to anything else. It seems to be paying his bills now, either way.
I have this same problem with Cradle although Cradle has become shit and its fast-paced release schedule doesn't help the editing process. And Simon is a much better character than Lindon any day.

>>20738462
>Simon is a much better character than Lindon
How? He barely is a character.

How do you get an audience for your fan fic? Since Bakker stopped posting on his blog I don't think he'll share my story, and he might find it offensive.

I wrote a sequel to TUC where Kellhus realizes the true Outside is a world where he is a fictional character written by an academic type.

He uses his control of the Logos to instantiate himself ever more strongly in the neuronal activity of Bakker, forcing Bakker to write him into true existence.

Bakker tried to fight back against Kellhus, taking antipsychotics and undergoing therapy, but the Kellhus personality only becomes more powerful.

In true Bakker style, Bakker, who in my story is a stand in for Bakker in the same way Akka and Bible are in SA and Neuropath, is cucked but Kellhus, who seduces Bakker's wife and convinces her to hide Bakker's antipsychotics.

Kellhus then begins to study advanced physics to get at the root ontology of our world so that he can dominate it, and kicks of a political career aimed at world domination.

To keep the story on brand I will probably have him rape a bunch of dudes. Can't mix stuff up too much.

Is there a market for this?

>>20738543
Oh, for the political part, Bakker will join ISIS and become their warrior prophet, repeating the events of SA as he takes over a holy war.

From Abu Baker to Abu Bakker.

>>20738543
>>20738546
Sounds great anon

>>20738543
The ways of Bakker is still prospering in every corner on the internet, from the based chans to the unbased reddits, there morale is high even if their prophet is gone, they have faith that he will return with an iron fist that penetrates all that stand before it.

Do not be discouraged, even if the janny bans it you can still post it both here and on the subreddit, and your work will be eternal, and the janny and his effort will be decimated before the might fist of the iron Bakker.

>>20737614
>Moorcock is the real culprit.
How? Moorcock famously hates Tolkein. Moorcock's own influence on fantasy is pretty much limited to the lawful/chaotic axis on the D&D alignment chart and the dark elves in warhammer fantasy. Do you mean his work as an editor?

>>20737869
This is a trollpost right

>read a story about a machine intelligence traversing a great spaceship
Felt like a xianxia with all the "ages passed" and "the machine spent x tens of thousands of years or x decades doing y thing".

>>20735490
Very interesting, I was wondering the same thing yesterday while I played with one of those art generators

>>20738810
Absurd timejumps in xianxia always baffle me because they don't seem to MEAN anything.

>>20737627
Wasn't it just almost entirely a ripoff of Earthsea?

>>20738923
I wouldn't say so. The idea of true names long predates Earthsea. But the fun was how creatively it was used. Like the ultimate spells were pinching blood vessels in the brain to instantly and easily kill people.

>>20737042
Read the Hobbit first, but know that there's a big shift in quality and tone when you get to lotr. If you love the appendices of RotK, then read Silmarillion otherwise ignore it.

>>20737547
Disliking it for that is. It's just a story. What does it matter how many floors they clear.

>>20737996
He baited us until the 5th (And thematically most interesting book) because Szeth was actually interesting, and I really wanted to know more about Shinnovar. I'm not reading anymore though.

>>20737790
>Bakkers never gonna continue the series anyway.
I will take the bait.

As of right now, it's 50/50 if I could made a fair estimation. One thing is for almost absolute certain, he will not write anything in the next 10 to 15 years.

>>20739144
>he will not write anything in the next 10 to 15 years.
That shouldn't stop you from reveling in the majesty of Bakker's prose,

also look how majestic that smile is, absolute king, this is why I keep his name supreme.

>>20731861
He only "killed" fantasy in the sense that fantasy became defined around his work. Plenty of truly fantastical literature has been written since, it's often referred to as something other than fantasy (if it's given a category at all)

>>20739167
I know this general is all fun and memes, but you don't have to convince me. Bakker is my favourite fantasy writer by a mile and I'm truly thankful for all he did, even if he doesn't "finish" the series.

Any books about world hopping? Preferrably something that isn't hard sci-fi.

>>20739206
Heinlein's later work.

>>20731768
Does anyone have a pdf of The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction by John Clute? Harlan Ellison said it was good.

read up to chapter 9 of prince of nothing and thus far the most interesting stuff are the chapters with the pov of the emperor and the conan-esque barbarian, the next one is the slut chapter which i dread reading because she's so fucking boooooooring and uninteresting just like irl women

>>20739300
Gene Wolfe should be a 1 and D tier

>>20739293
>prince of nothing
*the darkness that comes before, my bad

>>20739176
Sandal Supremacy.

Just learned this is an Isekai I was gonna read it next

Is it YA?

>>20737283
Anyone have this chart that anon talked about?

>>20739318
Doesn't change what you initially said. Those would still be the first 9 chapters.

>>20737786
>Tfw you realise all of Fitz pov from the last 3 books was him telling bee his story as he put his memories into his wild dragon

>>20739331
just tell me if i can skip the whore chapter(s)

>>20737098
firtsbornunicorn

>>20739343
You could, but she is probably the best female character ever written in fantasy, and she will play a big role latter on. Not to mention that her actions will have dire consequences for the rest of the series.

I've been reading the December 1969 issue of If magazine and I'm planning on ripping off two of the stories.

>>20731861
I come back in the thread for the fist time in like a week and this cunt is making the exact same whining post again, clearly not having read anything in the meantime.

If you want to do aimless whining go to outerlit

>>20731768
Is /sffg/ the /metal/ of /lit/?

>>20739352
>whore plays major role
Why are western authors like this?

>>20739380
She is more important than you might think, and not for any reason(s) you might be thinking. Just enjoy the books, buddy. It's only uphill from there.

>>20739352
your kidding

Both Lady and Althea Vestrit are written miles better, even Napenthe.

>>20739402
Not really, no.

>>20739293
>reading bakker
>hating women
yeah, where's the problem?

>>20739407
the problem is that i dont want to read even a single sentence, much less a full chapter of this slut complaining she has no men to fuck her because omg she's getting OLD!!!111!!

>>20739412
Are you gay?

>>20739421
why, are you interested?

I'm looking to read something that gives me some "Karsa Orlong" or "Logan 'Ninefingers'" vibes.
Barbarian brutes going about solving things with pointy or blunt things both big and small.
Any suggestions?

>>20739433
Bakker, unironically.

>>20739300
Gormenghast is D-tier.

>>20739442
Where are the karsa vibes in bakker

>>20739463
Right here.

>>20739300
>wot is c
a nigger made this chart

>>20739480
Wot should be D desu.

>>20739488
>This

>>20731861
Stop reading corporate publishing industry trash then.

>>20739433

>>20739463
Cnaiür urs Skiötha is what Karsa should have been.

>>20739300
this chart memed me into reading A Night in the Lonesome October

>>20739477
>>20739521
So I start with the Prince of Nothing trilogy?

>>20739591
Damn straight

swear to god you could ask for feminist fantasy with no rape in it and you'd still get bakker spammers shoehorning in a recommendation to the one series they've read

>>20738286
>>20738413
He spends a quarter of every book monologuing on if it was really a right choice to help the elderly and save the puppy or not (which of course he does, and it pays off in the end every time, because it's a mary sue book) you lying fags.

There is no type of power fantasy more masturbatory than the "I'M THE GUY THAT IS SELFLESS AND HELPS PEOPLE IN DIRE SITUATIONS WHEN NOBODY ELSE WOULD AND IT ACTUALLY WORKS OUT" one. None. Carl's only headstrong when it's a good thing and he's suddenly soft and vulnerable when it's good for his image instead. It's like listening to a sociopath in narrative form.

>>20739591
Yes.

>>20739637
Don't care. The parallels between Karsa Orlong and Cnaiür urs Skiötha are undeniable. You would know if you've read both.

>>20739658
The main parallel is that they both have bad writers lol

>>20739663
So you read books you don't like?

That's pretty pathetic, ngl.

>>20731768
FUCK they are good.

>>20739748
Not really.

Why do shills come in the only general on lit that actually reads, and posts pics of books that is mainstream with "they are so good" as a caption, and think that no one here read the book before? Or know that they book is shit? Do they think they will trick someone into reading shit?

>>20739808
I can almost certainly conclude that you don't read yourself based on the way you write.

I've got a finished fantasy manuscript I might just plop on e-publishing but I'm tryna come up with a decent cover I could create for it. I'm not hugely an artist, but I might take various pictures and sort of spruce them up in editing to create an artistic rendering or something.

tldr tho, is there an fantasy cover interests and hates among anons? What makes you think a book might be interesting or dull when judging a book by its cover? I want to do something colourful so it inherently jumps out to the eye at least.

>>20739858
what's it about?

>>20739858
Avoid anything anime.

Hi, i am looking for a sci-fi/sci-fi fantasy book(or was it a short story?) where the reality is warped and the more an object is used the better it becomes. For example the more you use a knife instead of it becoming duller it sharpens etc. Anyone know the name of the book i'm talking about?

I bought Mythagoo Wood by Robert Holdstock today, what am I in for?

>>20739930
A classic. Enjoy, anon.

>read Bakker
>literally just schizo gnosticism(pseudo-platonism)
baited yet again

>>20739948
>Another low IQ got filtered
Many such cases.

>>20739814
>one muscle memory typo
>y-you don't read
Take your shilling shit else way, and stop fucking spamming the general.

>>20739325
Yes. It even has a talking cat!

>>20739968
>Take your shilling shit else way
>else way
I accept your defeat.

>>20739912
That is a regularly used concept in fantasy books, anon. Using something strengthens it's spirit etc. Even Sanderson had something like this (it isn't the Sanderson short story you are speaking of?).

>>20739992
It's too late and I'm too tired to deal with your shit anon, just fuck off.

>>20740020
Not my problem.

>>20740020
>muh I'm tired
Learn to write, shitter.

>>20739951
Gnosticism is low IQ. Go lament life and curse the universe somewhere else

>>20740078
I don't have to.

Imagine being filtered by Bakker. LMAO

>>20739993
no it's not spirit, it's a sci fi thing that involves time travel where in the future we've changed ourselves to warp reality so the laws of entropy are reversed, the protagonist ''time travels'' to this future, i don't remember a ton of details sadly

>>20740102
this one?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-Clock_World

>>20740087
Is saying "I don't like it" being filtered?

>>20739877
A young builderman and his father from a rural valley are enlisted by a gregarious and wealthy local benefactor to build him a manor in a distant idyllic land and in journeying to do so become swept up in events larger than themselves. They meet and are accompanied by a variety of distinct characters along their way, some who come and go, some who stick with them from start to finish as part of their traveling company. About two thirds is the journey, the last third the events after finally arriving to their destination.

She's about 315k words in length so there's quite a bit that happens, and I'm trying to figure out the best visual image to represent all of it or the spirit of it well enough to be the initial cover. It's a high fantasy and the feel of it begins whimsical on an exciting journey to a new place as the main character's sort of coming of age being employed for his first building project that he'll be the foreman of, and it shifts more and more into the grandiose across its length as they journey from a small and simple, slow moving place, out into their grand world and are subject to the great waves of an ocean instead of the small ripples of their pond.

My first instinct is simply an artistic rendering of sort of portraits of the core characters because ultimately it's very heavily focused on the people involved and if I've done my writing well enough the reader will have a love for each of them by the conclusion. Having the cover be focused on them in the same way those old Star Wars posters would have each of the characters depicted feels appropriate. But, I don't exactly have the artistic ability to do something like that either unless I commission it which is possible.

>>20740114
nope, the time jump is of thousands of years if i remember correctly, also the book is mostly about this new future and the way humans interact with simple tools and how since the laws of entropy don't work properly humans don't invent different techniques anymore and just broteforce by repeatedly using objects

>>20739930
Brothers competing for dad's waifu

>>20739748
Need to go back to this, the art heist in 1 lost me

What happened to the Bastion shill?
I started the book yesterday. 20 chapters in and all the MC does is suffer. Is this what you faggets want me to read? Struggling the Novel?

>>20740178

I already read something like that in my re-read of Brothers Karamazov, so I might save it for later in the year.

I am looking for a book an anom here recommended, it was a long time ago but I remember really enjoying it.
It's about some superior alien race invading humanity and for the punishment for resistance they separate humans onto various planets and have them devolve into various creatures over eons of time. It also had lots of funny and spooky pictures.

>>20740416
All Tomorrows

>>20740428
thanks

What is the best romance story in all of science fiction and fantasy?

>>20740143
found it!

>>20740527
Beren and Lúthien.

>>20740527
The Ladies of Mandrigyn imo
The moment when the protagonists realise they're in love with each other is so well done.

TWI's author Pirateaba is doing an AMA on reddit. Interesting stuff:


>I never expected to get to the word count I write at. Which is, by the way, unhealthy to the point where I go to physical therapy and need to stretch to make sure my arms/shoulders don't suffer. I write about 20-30k per chapter twice a week.

>I started at 2k per chapter. And t hat was something I struggled to achieve. The transformation took about 6 years and moving from part-time jobs to writing full-time. And 9 million words of practice. All of these are factors; a writer who's on book tours or has a 'life' like family or another job just can't devote as much time to writing.

>It's not a competition or a sign of quality too, which I'm sure is obvious. Terry Pratchett wrote minimum 400 words per day with his busy schedule and look at the quality he produced. However, the final clue I have is that I'm writing a web serial.

>I am allowed to write without limit and that's freeing compared to what a lot of writers need to think in--the constraints of traditional publishing. They will NOT be happy with books that pass their usual limits. Web serials? 2 MB more space on a website is not going to get me in trouble.

>Also, my story benefits from having that length; I can tell you what's going on with each character. Some other stories might benefit from that like knowing what the hell the Fellowship ate beside lembas bread. I assume Legolas shot at least one rabbit but if he didn't that's also interesting. Then again, it wasn't that kind of story.

>Work + other obligations like friends is tough, samreay. I had a job where I could, while working, sometimes come up with a really good idea and I'd race back to a keyboard to write, but that's all I've got--frontloading some ideas for later. Oh, and cutting down my sleep so you write while you should be asleep for your job and get to work with 3 hours of rest.

>...Don't do that.

>>20740568
Didn't read.

>>20740568
Nobody here but you cares, dipshit.

>>20739637
Honestly, just don’t reply to them.

>>20740527
>>20740563
Actually Queen's Thief is better but that's the top 2

>>20739858
Make it fit the feel of the story, landscapes are nice, keep the title bigger than the author and away from the middle.
I'd say try to avoid "hooded cloak guy on white background" but if it sells it sells.

>>20733774
>>20733821
What compels someone to ask the same question every thread? It can’t be autism, for even they have some measure of shame.

>>20739300
Reading through the once and future king right now and it is kinda weird to see it rated higher than its source material. I was thinking about picking up morte de arthur eventually after I finish but I wonder if it will still be worth reading?

>>20740568
>wooe is me
>muh bloat
>I just write word salad, I don't plan or structure anything
>millions of words to say literally nothing of value
neck yourself

>>20740568
don't bother. they're just gonna have another fucking meltie again.

also yeah i noticed and said something similar a while ago. TWI is good at using the advantages of the webnovel format. in that they aren't as restricted in terms of space and pacing. it lends itself to big epics like that.

>He's deleting posts on a thread over the bump limit
>For free

>>20740683
You can always report them, since they always shit up the thread with low-effort posts and/or start spam.

>>20740568
Stop promoting your shit novel here.

>>20740568
How do you guys read this? I tried it and it was so incredibly bad. Who consumes this?

>>20740705
Self promotion or advertising is also agains the rules.

>>20740734
>Self promotion or advertising
i really question your intelligence if you think this is either.

>>20740710
>>20740722
>>20740734
Sometimes I wonder if some guys in /sffg/ are genuinely delusional enough to believe anyone would shill their story in this incredibly niche community, or are they just incredibly unfunny trolls. Or maybe autists that saw this said once and then started repeating. Anyway, no one fucking cares about this general. No one would advertise here. To whom, even? This thread has probably no more than 100 people actively watching it on a daily basis.

>>20740705
You can also report for spaming the same shit no one wants to read and telling them to buy it. a la Wandering Inn anons.

>>20740745
Nice try. Although no, I will not read your novel.

>>20740745
I think a lot of it may be out of a misguided sense of devotion to their preferred work.

>>20740691
Why though?

>>20740745
It’s unfunny trolls who shit up /sffg/ at any chance they get. Before they started seething at webnovels being discuss here, they would also seethe whenever people discuss books. Really, check the archives a few months back and they do the same shit.

>>20740766
Not really, no. I just don't consider anime-like weebshit to be literature.

>>20740745
they just want to circlejerk over what they know.
webnovels are new and scary and they'll pee their pants over them.

>webnovels
>not literally weebnovels

>>20740777
There are some great webnovels. It's wandering shit that is the problem. Why can't you shills understand this. The problem is Wandering Shit being shilled, not webnovels / self published books.

How much does the WI guy pay you?

>>20740745
>Sometimes I wonder if some guys in /sffg/ are genuinely delusional enough to believe anyone would shill their story in this incredibly niche community, or are they just incredibly unfunny trolls.
It's the usual shitters who shit up the various /sffg/ threads. It becomes obvious once you hang around /sffg/. They often out themselves.

>>20740766
Nah, you give them way too much credit.

>>20740776
>literature
none of the drivel you read in this thread is literature, if you really want to hold yourself to that standard. i don't consider tolkien literature. you're in the fucking fantasy sci-fi general, nerd. it's absolutely pathetic how high and mighty you retards are acting over this.

>>20740782
it's definitely among the better ones from what i've read, or at least it turns into that. no, you most likely just had a kneejerk reaction to it due to the praise it gets and some of the arrogant claims this series makes (muh wordcount). in reality nobody cares. that it has a high wordcount is not a boast, its just the truth.

>>20740817
>i don't consider tolkien literature
Your opinion is irrelevant though.

LOOKING FOR BOOKS ABOUT DUDES BANGING ALIENS PLEASE AND THANK YOU.

>>20740817
>you most likely just had a kneejerk reaction to it due to the praise it gets and some of the arrogant claims this series makes (muh wordcount)
I read the entire Volume one after it was "edited" and published on amazon and the fucking story was still bloated beyond normal. If that what it looks like after being edited, I don't want to read the rest. The author also tries and fails to capture readers and hold their emotions hostage with emotional blackmail, but she is so terrible at it that you see the book for the shit it is.

>>20740840
Bakker

>>20740852
holy based

>>20737042
Read the Hobbit. First book, tight structure, gives good introduction to the world of Middle-Earth.
Then read Lord of the Rings. As >>20739044
said, only read the Silmarillion if you're fascinated with the appendices of Return of the King. If not, you'll find them frightfully boring.

>>20740817
>I don't consider Tolkien literature
Then you're retarded.

>>20740861
>>20740828

Reading webnovel-weebshit makes you an expert on literature.

LMAO. Didn't you know.

>>20737042
If you haven't read The Hobbit/LotR, then certainly read them first. The Silmarillion is challenging, even for a Tolkienfag.

>>20740745
It’s not some guys, it’s the usual shitters, which means it’s the bakkerspammer. Ignore him or if not, then just do what this anon >>20740705 suggest

>>20740817
I don't know why you even respond to them, you already know they don't give two shits and just use it as an excuse to shitpost.

>>20740870
I don't care for any of the wuxia/cultivation discussed ITT, but not even the most high-browed snob could consider Tolkien dumb-genre shit, or whatever you're suggesting it to be.

>>20738798
I genuinely do not understand the question. Moorcock's writings are what standardized fantasy into its current form.
When retards ask for "fantasy played straight" or "Fantasy with no frills" they mean Moorcock, even if they don't know it.
Something can be indirectly influential.

>>20740847
>I read the entire Volume one after it was "edited" and published on amazon and the fucking story was still bloated beyond normal.
Except that it was never edited so you couldn't have read the edited version you lying retard. Volume 1 is still being rewritten and not even halfway through that. Only after that it will be republished and printed physically.

>>20740861
>>20740828
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literary_hostility_to_J._R._R._Tolkien
>20th century critics such as ... attacked J. R. R. Tolkien's work as worthless and childish
uhhh explain yourselves tolkien nerds?

>>20740876
>Everyone who disagrees with me is THE Bakker spammer
touch grass

>>20740896
I don't even like Tolkien, shitter.

>>20740896
>citing wikipedia
Oh no no no no

>>20740896
>In 1955, Muir attacked The Return of the King, writing that "All the characters are boys masquerading as adult heroes ... and will never come to puberty ... Hardly one of them knows anything about women", causing Tolkien to complain angrily to his publisher.
Holy based, tolkien virgins absolutely slamed

>>20740908
They are right. Just like every webnovel you guys post here.

>>20740908
Tolkien ABSOLUTELY BTFO by BAKKER

>>20740888
So you are telling me that authors that post their work from webnovel sites don't edit before publishing? The whole reason I use Podium and Aethon is because they edit stuff before publishing.
Why did Beware of Chicken and Mother of Learning Edit before publishing then?
Fagget.

Looks like the WNfags are getting uppity again. Embarrassing. Even Sanderson is better than that trash. And yet here they are trashing on Tolkien.

can anyone recommend me some nautical fantasy books? forgive me for my ignorance as i never post on /lit/ and only check in on sffg maybe once or twice a year for some comfy fantasy recommendations.
My favourite series aside from Tolkien is the Jack Aubrey and Steven Maturin series by patrick o'brien, famously made into the masterpiece film " Master and Commander".
So i was wondering if there was anything kind of like that but in a fantasy setting. Swashbuckling and pirates and sailing centered.
when i was a kid i read and loved "The Edge Chronicles" which is all about Skypirates and flying ships so something similar to that would be cool too.

>>20740974
At least Sando found a publisher. Good for him.

>>20740908
>all the characters are just more mature adults who exhibit free-will rather than retarded freudian animals.
ok

Any writings on Gormenghast that you'd recommend, /sffg/? I found Burgess' introduction to Titus Groan very interesting and would like to read more of the same.

>>20740896
>feminist scholar Catherine R. Stimpson published a book-length attack on Tolkien
>"an incorrigible nationalist"
>"irritatingly, blandly, traditionally masculine"
kek
These are the types of "critics" that attack Tolkien.

>>20740976
It's the Napoleonic wars with dragons rather than ships but I have to mention Temeraire since it's heavily influenced by Aubrey-Maturin.

The Red Wolf Conspiracy: Set almost entirely on a gigantic ship but not too nautical.
Hawkwood’s Voyage (Monarchies of God): Really good sailing writing but it's a multi-pov grimdark series so might not be worth the rest of it if you're not into that.
Inda - Starts off as coming of age military fantasy but turns into a nautical fantasy halfway through. Second book really kicks the pirate stuff into gear.
Liveship Traders - again multipov but now most of them are on ships. Hobb's probably the best writer on this list of books but they love to have their protags suffer and their ambitions mean I can't recommend this to someone just looking for nautical fantasy.
The Bone Ships - Fairly new, almost entirely ship based with naval combat, navigating and the like all in one book. Liked it quite a bit but haven't read the sequels yet.
On Stranger Tides is supposed to be good too (Pirates of the Caribbean took the name but none of the plot)
Wyvern by Attansio is one on my too read list. Same for The Scar by Mieville

If I were to order these for pure ship based swashbuckling action I'd say Bone Ships>Inda>Tides should be the first ones you consider

>>20741094
thank you for your effort post anon. very kind of you. i will check out everything you recommended and pick one to start this weekend.
Temeraire actually sounds pretty fun, and if its inspired by Aubrey-Maturin it sounds like it could be right up my alley.

>>20740896
>21st Century critics described anon as a cocksucker
>"He literally could not stop sucking cock", one wrote
>"He would service so many men in a day his shit was like runny eggs."

>>20741094
>just finished looking up the Monarchies of God series and that one looks very promising although not entirely nautical. The author seems pretty based aswell. Im going to check this one out for sure

>>20740976
Pretty slim pickings. I remember listening to a fantasy audiobook on headphones where they were talking about the topgallants flying in a gale and I said out loud "you'll lose a spar!". You've been spoiled. Recommend you listen to the Patrick Tull narrated AM audiobooks. Also here's a nice obit by a great American writer. https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/library/books/011700mamet-writing.html

>>20738203

>>20741264
5 star post

>>20741264
Ah, there it is.

>>20741207
i know im spoiled. I dont think anything will ever top O'Brian for me. i have been told the Tull audiobooks are great but ive never been able to listen to audiobooks in general.
its like paying a man to read you a story like a child or something. I just cant do it. Ive got to be holding a book in my hands, not a screen or listening to someone else read it to me.
Thanks for the mamet article. I like alot of his films. he is based jew and im not surprised he liked the books.

>>20741282
>its like paying a man to read you a story like a child or something. I just cant do it. Ive got to be holding a book in my hands, not a screen or listening to someone else read it to me.
Stop being autistic.

im bored and depressed so i bought i am a cat, the hobbit and wandering inn to read this week

cheers random anon

>>20740554
When you're right, you're right.

I have been listening to Mistborn and I am kinda enjoying it, bros.

>>20739521
A fag?

>>20741282
Tull is like going to see Shakespeare in the theater, but lower key. Try it. http://audiobookbay.fi/audio-books/the-complete-aubreymaturin-series-patrick-obrian-2/

>>20741427
There is no hope for you.

>>20741427
It's not bad. Remember that when Mistborn came out no fantasy author felt the need to write books with an ending. So for each book in a trilogy to have a beginning, middle and ending was practically revolutionary. And he doesn't do such a bad job of it. A lot of the things people complain about became more objectionable through imitation.

Reposting because the last thread got nuked: I've heard excellent things about Boy in Darkness, but what of Titus Awakes? I recently got this lovely omnibus so am going to read through the trilogy again, but haven't read either BiD or TAwakes. Worthwhile?

>>20741584
Eh, I don't have too much of a problem with the first book. It's the second and third that I have more problems with, because they really could've just been one book, instead we get most of the continuation from the second book, and then the third book is 90% faffing about while everything sucks until the finale.

>>20741595
True, but I stayed with it because it was a story of how the would-be heroes had royally fucked everything. Maybe it was a product of the times, but I can't see how that perspective would be less relevant now.

New thread
>>20741682

New thread
>>20741702

janny we're on page 10 what are you doing my man

New thread
>>20741750

>>20741751
The image probably had something embedded, I think that’s why 4chan shut down last night.

>>20741751
I change the name and the filename and got an updated image, hope that helps.

>>20741759
I did notice the site being semi-down
Are they cracking down on the people using scrips to "embed" links to pics or something like that?

>>20741782
Possibly, the reason for it is because the people were sharing CP. which is why they shut it down to begin with.

>>20741794
Child porn? Christ. Hope those sick freaks get punish.

>>20741753
It’s almost midnight where I am, and it always surprises me that the shitters just spend all day tk shit up a new thread.

>>20741935
It's the only thing they have, anon. They don't care about discussing books, they just want to shit up /sffg/.

>>20741935
>>20741940
I think they're trying to force a discussion instead of just letting it build up naturally.

>>20741794
>people were sharing CP
/tv/ needs to be nuked

>>20742005
It’s just three fags, don’t know why they do this shit at night. /sffg/ doesn’t need to be active all the time.

>>20742138
Newfags think generals need to be active constantly.

>>20742138
>>20742151
It’s even stupider since /lit/ at night is fucking slow, like it take 20 minutes to reach page two on some days.

>>20742138
>It’s just three fags,
It's really jarring to see. Like holy shit, why are they even doing that?