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/lit/ - Literature

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20661014 No.20661014 [Reply] [Original]

She should have died hereafter;
There would have been a time for such a word.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day
To the last syllable of recorded time,
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

What is the nature of the tragedy in Macbeth? He does not strike us initially or really at any time after as nearly as heinous as his deeds might make him seem. It may be true thahis ambition led to his murderous rampage but it's important to note that he was never fully on-board with his own plan and he constantly regrets it. Why can't he stop himself, even at the end? The soliloquy that he delivers is a moment of clarity in the depths of despair in a role that feels otherwise clouded beyond recognition with doubt and aimlessness.

What do you think of Macbeth?

>> No.20661045
File: 209 KB, 996x1200, Macbeth-head.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20661045

>>20661014
Macbeth symbolizes what nihilism can do to a man, turn him into a beast.

>> No.20661059

>>20661045
If you mean how the content of this speech is apparently nihilistic, Macbeth was a ‘beast’ long before that moment

>> No.20661074

>>20661014
The soliloquy isn't a moment of clarity in the sense of him realising his wrongs/mistakes, but only insofar as he is aware of his present state. But it shows that his worldview is still entirely devilish.

Of the Macbeth as he is described to us and honoured in the beginning there is no trace left, the demonic element takes control, and the individual ceases entirely to exist.

>> No.20661165

fukkin pump it bro suck that shit down u kno what i'm about

>> No.20661743

>>20661165
explain

>> No.20661745

Make E's

>> No.20661892

shakespeare is detached from human morality. he recognises the importance of ethics and doesn't give a damn about it.

in othello, morality has no effect on the outcome of the characters.
the evil iago ends in ruin.
the christian virtuous desdemona, dies basically by suiciding.
the greatest man has to offer, othello dies descending from a proud man to raging lunatic.
so does this mean shakespeare think life is a despressing mess, and man's fate is destruction? note the fate of cassio. he becomes governor at the end of the play, not by his own virtue, but by simple luck.

what fools these mortals be, thinking their morality has anything to do with their fate.

>> No.20662060

>>20661014
I always thought Macbeth was a girl, kek

>> No.20662613

Bump

>> No.20662749

>>20661014
>Shakespeare
Who?

>> No.20662764

>>20661892
Yeah, except Macbeth shows the exact opposite...

>> No.20663364

>>20661014
I'm an antisemite and I found the Merchant of Venice to be boring and the main Jewish villain the only interesting character.

>> No.20664098

>>20662060
maybe you were thinking of lady macbeth

>> No.20664156
File: 296 KB, 800x1136, 800px-Gehrts_Armin_verabschiedet_sich_von_Thusnelda_1884.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20664156

>>20664098
Lady Macbeth is one of the best women in /lit/, fight me

>> No.20664168

>>20661074
I don't see it as a demonical speech

>> No.20664772

>>20661014
>What do you think of Macbeth?
I like the witches, and the overall eerie ambiance is unlike any of his other plays, I guess Shakespeare was doing literary horror before the concept exist

>> No.20664790

>>20661014
I always wondered is this what Shakespeare actually thinks or is he using Macbeth as an example of how not to live? Hamlet is similar.

>> No.20664878

>>20661014
You don't have to see it as something esoteric. Greed and ambition are tragic aspects of the human condition. Selflessness and contentment are better. Macbeth can't stop because he suffers from the flaw of ambition.

Shakers lived in an a much more sophisticated Christian universe that was aware of the reality of vices and virtues. He was demonstrating what happens when the vices consume us.

>> No.20665106

>>20664168
It's entirely about the husk of a person he's become.

>> No.20665495

>>20664878
>Macbeth can't stop because he suffers from the flaw of ambition.
Yeah, I think is simple as that. Sometimes flaws are so ingrained in us that even when we realize that we are being, for example, ambitious we still can't stop. Sometimes flaws become part of our nature if we don't stop them soon enough.

>> No.20665506

>>20661014
Macbeth is superficial garbage.
Read this instead:
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/27726/27726-h/27726-h.htm

>> No.20665571

>>20665495
Yeah, the dilemma is resisting the drive to make choices which feed the flaws.

>> No.20665690

>>20665506
when I read this it seems like Tolstoy was reading the plays as though they were novels

>> No.20665977

>>20665506
Holy bovine, Tolstoy filtered. Seriously though >>20665690 you make a point. I reckon its better to watch them performed than read them. The only other thing I can imagine is Tolstoy's imagination being terrible but that seems to be contradicted by his work... strange. No accounting for taste I guess.

>> No.20666606
File: 2.95 MB, 4032x3024, shakespeare-complete-works.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20666606

Visited my grandparents yesterday and my granddad's bought me a copy of the Complete Works of Shakespeare from a book stall. Not my photo but same copy/edition as pic related.

Where should I start? I vaguely remember studying Macbeth at school ~15 years ago, and I remember hating the sonnets, but what are your recommendations?

>> No.20667346

>>20666606
>I reckon its better to watch them performed than read them

>> No.20667360

>>20666606
who's the artist? I love that print

>> No.20668805

>>20666606
maybe start with a midsummer nights dream

>> No.20668828

>>20666606
I think Merchant of Venice is great for a comedy. and The Tempest is beautiful

>> No.20668834

>>20666606
i'll second the tempest as being a good way for Shakespeare to click. Its one of his most refined plays.

>> No.20668863

>>20665106
Yeah, but I don't think its demonic. Lady Macbeth speech at the start sparkles with demonic energy Macbeth is nihlistic without overt malice

>> No.20668869

>>20666606
The Tempest is my favourite but its best to be saved for last as Shakespeare's second to last

>> No.20668878

>>20665977
I guess the outlook in the play may have seemed culturally different from what he was used to

>> No.20668968

>>20668828
>I think Merchant of Venice is great for a comedy
Why are Shylock and Portia the only interesting characters in that; every one else is so flat.
But Tempest is based

>> No.20669307

>>20667346
>he doesn't love theatre of the mind

>> No.20669322

>>20669307
I just cast whoever I want as Shakespeare's lads or imagine them as anime lolis and shota
The Tempest is in a more Ghibli style and the lighter plays are in cute girls moe blobs

>> No.20669493
File: 97 KB, 612x428, ear.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20669493

>>20669322

>> No.20669554

>>20669493
Come on, it's not like most of Shakespeare's plays weren't performed by 3d kids back in the day, he mentions this in Hamlet

>> No.20670226

>>20661892
Dude no way, the absurd?! Ah I'm going deep, ah, help me anon its too deep the writing -agh
*meow*
Anon you useless fucking nigger! youre just like the rest of them! agg, aghhhhAHHHHHH

>> No.20670502

>>20670226
kek

>> No.20670544

>>20666606
Might be gay but I read Shakespeare out loud to myself when I'm studying a new play. Do silly voices and everything. A lot of Shakespeare is dead on the page but comes to life when it's spoken.

>> No.20670546

>>20669307
plays are just character formatted prose poems, prove me wrong.
Also 99% of plays are driven by actors and actresses narcissism these days and none of them actually care to be good, just famous and jacked off to.
It's like women posting on instagram but supposedly high-brow

>> No.20671324

>>20668834
>Its one of his most refined plays.
which is exactly why you should read it last or at least after reading his other important plays

>> No.20671327

>>20667346
you would be wrong, the chances of you actually catching a good performance are extremely low.

>> No.20671407
File: 191 KB, 898x629, Eric Fraser - Smaug.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20671407

>>20667360
Eric Fraser
He mostly drew for advertising companies, but he illustrated some early editions of Tolkien's works. Pic related is his Smaug

>> No.20671415
File: 481 KB, 1024x891, Eric Fraser.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20671415

>>20667360
>>20671407
An example of an advert he did, for an aluminium mining company

>> No.20671419
File: 506 KB, 800x2013, Eric Fraser - Stained glass windows.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20671419

>>20671415
And some stained glass windows based on his designs

>> No.20671427

>>20668805
>>20668828
>>20668834
>>20668869
Hmm... I think I'll go back over Hamlet first, then The Tempest, then A Midsummer Night's Dream. Sonnets can definitely wait lol

>>20670544
That sounds very gay, but I respect it

>> No.20671433
File: 371 KB, 666x1024, Eric Fraser - Hamlet.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20671433

One more Eric Fraser as his Hamlet is the best illustration in the book

>> No.20673216

>>20671433
Really nice way; close to how I picture both Hamlet and the ghost

>> No.20673272

>>20670546
Yeah, that's why I actually don't mind reading old plays like Shakespeare to myself, I can imagine whoever I wanna imagine reading the lines
The first time I ever saw a Shakespeare production live the only actor who was any good was playing a side character

>> No.20673291

>>20668863
I don't mean demonic as in purposefully malicious and how demons act. But rather in the larger dualistic sense of evil, which is so important a theme in the play. He has lost himself.

>> No.20673400

>>20673291
I get it; to be honest I always wondered if Macbeth was under influence of demonical forces in the literal sense. Like to what degree are Lady M and the witches guilty

>> No.20673415
File: 112 KB, 863x926, the_merchant_of_venice_by_phobs_d51ux3p-pre.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20673415

Good illustrations of Shakespeare

>> No.20673649

bump

>> No.20674031

>>20664772
>I like the witches, and the overall eerie ambiance
You might dig the Scarlet Letter then.

>> No.20674083

>>20668828
>The Tempest is beautiful
>>20668834
>i'll second the tempest as being a good way for Shakespeare to click.
This one here, bro. My darling Miranda will draw you in

>> No.20674114

>>20674031
Scarlett Letter is great, though little explicit supernatural unless you count the letter appearing on the priest's chest as a magical realism

>> No.20674239

List your Shakespeare gals
For me:
>Miranda
>Ophelia
>Kate Minola
>Lady Macbeth
>Emilia (Othello)
Honorary titles go to Shylock and Romeo because they are hysterical

>> No.20675119

>>20674239
Juliet

>> No.20675607

>>20673400
I think that's intentionally left a mystery, maybe because Shakespeare was a Christian. To leave open the possibility of both his own nature leading him astray or the forces of evil. At least Shakespeare didn't say either one and just portrayed the action objectively.

>> No.20676182

post nice recordings
https://youtu.be/12uSj99a7bI