/lit/ - Literature

>>20593228
this is the only dystopian book that actually made me angry, i guess it wins

>>20593228
>Bro what if we had communism but with the division of labor of class societies

>describes how a state could strengthen itself at the expense of the freedoms of individual humans
>retards assume he's sying this is how he wants things to be

>>20593328
>>retards assume he's sying this is how he wants things to be
he actually tried to do it (and failed)

>>20593328
I was always slightly baffled by this.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j0_TDPaUznw

>>20593328
>>retards assume he's saying this is how he wants things to be

>>20593328
>>20593334
The location and time period was rife with war and societies sacking cities and stuff, was it not?

Maybe it is not ideal, but was wise, for him to consider how to strengthen his home nation against foreign invaders?

>>20593228
No, its not even dystopian.

>>20593228
that's not how you spell utopian

>>20593676
Are you conceding that it was what he actually wanted?

>>20594449
If your village is under attack by invading forces and you are writting your ideals for how a state might function itself most succesfully, might you be influenced by extenuating circumstances?

>>20593316
So just capitalism?

>>20593228
It was a satire

>>20595856
Plato was 100% serious and he was correct about everything.

>>20595856
So ... like the prince?

>>20597202
do you recommend reading the prince

>>20595853
How is doing what you’re best suited for not communism?

>>20597247
It's like 80 pages. Just read it

>>20593228
anyone who doesn't like plato should be killed

>>20593316
Isn't that fascism?

>>20593228
Plato's Republic:
> @ 460d "These officials will also look after the rearing - they'll take their mothers to the pen when their breasts are full of milk all the time using any device available to prevent them recognising their own offspring; if the mothers don't have enough, it'll be the job of the officials to provide others with milk for the infants."

tag: human_livestock

Aristotle's History of Animals, Book III:
> @ 13 "As a general rule, milk is not found in the male of man or of any other animal, though from time to time it has been found in a male; for instance, once in Lemnos a he-goat was milked by its dugs (for it has, by the way, two dugs close to the penis), and was milked to such effect that cheese was made of the produce, and the same phenomenon was repeated in a male of its own begetting. Such occurrences, however, are regarded as supernatural and fraught with omen as to futurity, and in point of fact when the Lemnian owner of the animal inquired of the oracle, the god informed him that the portent foreshadowed the acquisition of a fortune. With some men, after puberty, milk can be produced by squeezing the breasts; cases have been known where on their being subjected to a prolonged milking process a considerable quantity of milk has been educed.

tags: male_lactation, feral

Greeks were /d/.

>>20593228
The Republic is not a work of genuine statecraft, read the Laws if you want Plato at his most sophisticated

>>20595856

>>20597202
The Prince was serious because machiavelli unironically did dick suck Cesare Borgia. The Republic is satire because of how retarded it is.

>>20597808
Basically this. Republic involves too much of his failed attempts at broader philosophy, and too little practical work. If you want metaphysics and the like, you go to greater thinkers like the Pre-Socratics.

Athenians were late to the philosophy game, and their only worthwhile contributions are in very practical areas.

>>20597808
Also Statesman

>>20598876
But Plato had Dion of Syracuse.

>>20599423
>failed attempts at broader philosophy, and too little practical work.
Filtered.
>>20597808
>The Republic is not a work of genuine statecraft
Wrong. He literally tried to bring his ideal about politically. Read The Seventh Letter of Plato and Aristotle's critiques of The Republic in his Politics.
>inb4 The Seventh Letter isn't genuine and Aristotle was somehow filtered
Cope.

>>20600070
This
>>20595856
>>20598876
Cope. See >>20600084
>NOOOOOOOOOO!!!111!!!!!!1!!11!! Are you saying I spent all my time studying the Ancient Greek equivalent of Klaus Schwab?! NOO THAT CAN'T BE. IT HAS TO BE SOME ANALOGY AND OR SATIRE! PLATO WAS THE MASTER OF SARCASM! HE NEVER MEANT THIS WORK TO BE SINCERE AT ALL!!!!

Is it necessary to wade through many works by plato and aristotle so you could understand hegel and heidegger and consequently to understand anything that was written after them? Reading Republic is just torture, it doesn't feel relevant, you just do it so you could understand some later stuff. But is it TRULY necessary? Can't I just use wikipedia for this?

>>20600464
I'm reaching a point where I believe that whether or not you consider the Republic to be serious or satire is an even more conclusive test w/r/t autism than the Sally Anne test.
You're on the spectrum anon

Plato is for numales

>>20600472
Why don't you just read what Heidegger and Hegel say about the greeks?

>>20600084
Plato was filtered by the Pre-Socratics. The result has been tragic for philosophy. We have to go back.

Also, the fact that he tried (and failed spectacularly) to educate/improve the king in Syracuse, has nothing to do with whether the Republic is a genuine effort at founding a new colony or changing all the laws. In that respect the text is wholly inadequate; there are ideas and general guidance, but it is the Laws where Plato actually takes that very practical task seriously. Also, lmao when Plato tried to implement his philosophy he got btfo in Syracuse, sold into slavery, got his students killed, etc. absolute state of his life.

>>20595856
>>20600478
Other works of Plato try to reference and support Plato. If the Republic was a satirical joke then his entire line of work was as well.
Plato wasn't that good, he was the entry-level pleb of his day. Aristotle was much, much smarter than Plato and it shows.

>>20600478
to be fair, I just make comments about the republic being satire/metaphor in republic threads despite never reading a lick of plato

>>20602360
I'm genuinely curious, seriously please try to answer: over the course of your life, how many times would you roughly estimate that you have had a unique original thought?

This question is open to everyone in the thread by the way

>>20600084
>Wrong. He literally tried to bring his ideal about politically. Read The Seventh Letter of Plato
No he didn't, the Seventh Letter only goes as far as pointing to the Republic passage about politics never coming to peace without philosophy somehow involved, otherwise there's no connection between the Republic's laws and whatever policies Plato advised Dionysius, about which we're totally in the dark.

>>20603018
i had one the other day
>what if niggers are really the most based of us all?

>>20593328
>muh freedumz
>doesn't even realize Plato was implicitly criticizing the idea of freedom all throughout the work

>>20593302
Why?