/lit/ - Literature

>>20542630
Stupid frog poster

>>20542630
the political tendencies that are portrayed in the media as new and unprecedented have in fact existed for generations

>>20542630
Ignatius is my spirit animal.

>>20542630
righty neckbeards and leftist soibois have been here since the industrial revolution, if not earlier

>another writer who killed himself
why does literary skill make people such faggots?

>>20542630
I would say that he isn't even particularly militant about being trad but more is just an overthinking dumbass who switches from one impractical ideology to the next, but then I realized that's literally what most e-larpers today do as well.

>>20542799
He was a weird momma's boy. Many such cases

>>20542630
It was mostly autobiographical with a lot of self-parody. All intelligent and sensitive heterosexual White men are reactionaries at heart.

>>20542630
I really enjoyed this book. It made me actually lol a few times which books rarely do.

>>20542630
This post made me want to reread this book.

>>20542799
vice versa

>>20543018
>All intelligent and sensitive heterosexual White men are reactionaries at heart.
basado

>>20542630
>>predicts the rise of the "tradright" incels
>How did he do it?

>>20543018
what are sensitive white faggots then?

>>20543018
>heterosexual

>>20543018
t. Ignatius J. Reilly

>>20543616
pawns for Jews

>>20543085
Agreed, most "funny" books make you curl the corners of your lips at best but this one was pure hilarity

>>20543085
One of the funniest books I've read, but it also made me sad to realize that the suicidal author saw himself as an Ignatius.

>>20543186
The transition went well.

>>20542630
no he didn't

>>20543616
Commies

There's no rise in trad shit. Religion is on its way out. The youth are atheist

>>20543782
There is more detail to this in the biography Butterfly in the Typewriter. Initially he started writing it while working six hours a day in Puerto Rico as a teacher in the military. He soon found himself writing without pause, heavily relying on his past experiences (he had worked in a factory/warehouse, and briefly as a hot dog vendor) to move the narrative along. There have been claims that Toole based the character of Ignatius on an academic friend of his who resembled him and was quite eccentric, but even that guy when interviewed after T's death said the character was all Toole.

Upon returning to New Orleans Toole was working I think 10 hours a week as a teacher and ploughing all his energy otherwise into the novel, and he wrote (I think to Gottlieb) that he was so invested in the character by that point that he was even beginning to talk and think like Ignatius. It's quite funny, but also obviously rather tragic.

Toole reacted strongly it seems against the hippy movement and the kind of loosening of morals etc that he perceived in his contemporaries and his students. And by the time he died his book had already been back and forth Simon & Shuster many times, so much so that Toole was becoming paranoid that other authors were reading his manuscript and stealing from it.

>>20542854
He is quite similar to Holden Caulfield in some respects, namely the fact that Holden had this ideology of purity and authenticity on the one hand but contradicts that ideology in his own actions several times in the novel. Ignatius is similar for obvious reasons. The comedy in this sense comes from revealing intimately our own tendency to view ourselves as isolated standard-bearers for a bygone chivalrious age while on the other indulging, often in ways that surpass other people, in the sins of our time.

>>20544172
Religion is on the way out in the West, but isolated young men on the fringes of society pretending to be religious is very much on the way in.

>>20544201
>pretending to
Atheist cope. The small souled atheist is so blinded he thinks religious people MUST be pretending. "I-it's all a larp!!" Yeah, ok sure, keep calling Christians larpers while you go on reddit and quote Marx and talk about how you're gonna seize the means of production any day now, fag.

>>20543085
I've had quite a few chuckles reading Money: A Suicide Note by Amis

>>20544201
Fortunately they are a tiny number and its mostly an aesthetic choice and form of cope. It's also easy to get a skewed view of things on here because of the constant spamming of religious threads but Guenon for example is no more popular than he was 20 years ago, less so if you consider Google search trends meaningful.

>>20544298
If you genuinely believe the Bible to be the word of an Almighty God. I suggest you get back to reading it. I'd be very worried about the prospect of Hell if I were you.

>>20544298
>missing the point this badly
90% of the online tradright is just socially outcast teenagers i.e. losers trying desperately to be edgy.
Had they been born in the 80s they'd be Satanists

>>20544201
I'm actually amazed there wasn't a stronger push to incarcerate the fake-jesus nazi types under the same premise as jihadist types. I honestly suspected around 5 yrs ago we'd have at least by now medicated them or forced them into therapy.

I mean, this response: >>20544298

The person is a robot - it may as well be a simple AI chatbot whenever it's encountered with the same exact phrases, the same exact style of writing the same insults.. never any interesting arguments to be had, just a demoralizaing stream of cliched insults; mostly consisting of the regurgitation of valid critique i received being spat out y it onto others. This is not a functional human being and it is literally only existing to cause whatever harm it can.

>>20542630
Trad larpers have existed since at least the 60s

>>20542799
>why does literary skill make people such faggots
A faggot is a boy who tells the teacher and spread rumors about you, or attempts to sexually assault you.

You've conflated the word in error with possessing a working grasp of the written English language, and the accompanying IQ boost which follows from learning how to think and speak in a structured logical manner.

If not for class hatred we'd be well on the way to incarcerating the real faggots by now.

>>20544396
Atheists have never presented an interesting or valid argument. Not once

>>20544396
The Bolsheviks also treated any dissentijg opinion as mental illness

>>20544390
This does not refute the position. Some people might by fraudulent but that is not relevant to the validity of the position itself.

>>20544420
Nobody's discussing Christianity itself; the thread is about people who abuse it and degrade it to pure aesthetics

>>20544416
They were correct. Many of the antisocial traits exhibited in society at large ticks the boxes for the USSR Approved diagnosis of Sluggish Schizophrenia.

I have to wonder what even this website would be like, let alone my town, if all people exhibiting these traits were taken off the streets and forced to be educated out of their errors.

>>20544413
a remark that could only come from a position of extreme mental illness; you'reeither insane or lying.

We CAN prove it though Anon! We can hook you up to a lie detector and have you rattle off these "proclamations of your faith in random unverifiable things" and prove for sure whether you're lying or not:

Would 'you' be willing to do this? ..why not?

>forced to be educated out of their errors.
i mean, basic remedial psychiatry; explaining to them why they hurt other people and why other people hurt them back, this kind of thing.

>>20544445
Yes, atheists are almost always commies. You don't even try to hide it anymore.

>>20544445
>random unverifiable things
This only reveals your own lack of philosophical understanding if you think your own lowbrow materialist atheist position is "verifiable" and that God is not.
Even Quine, who was an atheist himself, admitted that none of your assertions are verifiable.

>>20544454
lol you see what i said here?

>The person is a robot - it may as well be a simple AI chatbot whenever it's encountered with the same exact phrases, the same exact style of writing the same insults.. never any interesting arguments to be had, just a demoralizaing stream of cliched insults; mostly consisting of the regurgitation of valid critique i received being spat out y it onto others. This is not a functional human being and it is literally only existing to cause whatever harm it can.

You are a chatbot, anon.

>>20544412
You're a faggot

>>20544463
I guessed in my first post that you were a Marxist and you have proven me right.
Furthermore, do you know that your idol Marx himself was really not even an "atheist" strictly speaking? He was actually a Satanist. You will undoubtedly say that this is crazy too even though this is a fact. That's ok because your whole worldview is anti-truth.

>>20544420
the "position itself" is irrelevant and interchangeable, that's the whole point. on the internet everything's a fandom engaged in posting wars with other fandoms. it doesn't matter if your preferred fandom is fixated on jesus or marx or mr spock, your existence will involve staring at your smartphone screen and trying to compete with both other fandoms and others in your own fandom by posting more or "stronger" memes. it's not just that most internet-religious people are "pretend" believers, although that's also true - it's that the whole format of internet interaction makes every belief functionally identical and equally fake, so that it doesn't matter what you "really" think.

>>20544460
ok i'll play the game again, why not.

>>random unverifiable things
>This only reveals your own lack of philosophical understanding if you think your own lowbrow materialist
1) you believe in the hebrew god from the garden of eden story; the god who exiles humans for wanting to know right from wrong, claiming that this knowledge will make them into gods.
2) you've misunderstood the word 'soul', which is psyche, meaning mind and intelligence.
3) you've adopted a position of hateful nihilism toward reality (i.e. the material world and the human being), reinforced through the evil commands of these strange 'holy books'
4) these 'holy books' were produced by ignorant savages in a culture absent of healing, learning, building or even military accomplishment.

Not only would I say that religion is a colossal cope for the ignorant and the evil; to cloak their evil impulses in a drag act of false-piety, but that your religion in particular is the worst and most obviously stupid of them all.


now your turn,
>cue one liner response of pure hatred and address nothing that was said

>>20544482
You can pretend any valid statement against you is whatever you like, anon. There's never any proofs for the things you say; it's pure ad hominem fallacy coming from a position of total fear and anger, which is understandable when you hold nonsensical opinions and refuse to learn things and then encounter other people.

>>20544483
Once again you are missing the point. You are reducing the discussion to a person's psychological state for believing what he believes, rather than thinking at a higher level and looking at the paradigm itself and your own presuppositions. This is usually what atheists do because you are, at best, middlebrow, mediocre thinkers, and these conversations as a result are tedious and dull.

>>20544434
>Nobody's discussing Christianity itself; the thread is about people who abuse it and degrade it to pure aesthetics
This is clearly what the thing was in the first place though:
>>20544390
>90% of the online tradright is just socially outcast teenagers i.e. losers trying desperately to be edgy.

It's almost pointless to waste your time explaining to them how the world isn't flat because they don't 'really believe it' to start with, it's a type of mentality coming from a socio-economic or outcast position of the worst of the worst type of person, from the time of Paul of Tarsus (himself, a murderer for the state) to this very fucking day,

"thieves, extortioners, abusers of themselves with men, such were ye!" he say to his band of thieves, extortioners and gays, "then ye washed yourselves!" (bro, they were cured!)

>Had they been born in the 80s they'd be Satanists
They are the real Satanists. No worshiper of the Devil has been responsible for a thimble full of the crimes that this cult has been observed engaging in. It's the twisted mentality which is the constant.

>>20544506
i can't be doing anything "once again" because that's my first post in the thread, and to tell me that i "reduce the discussion to a person's psychological state" right after i declare the person's psychological state to be effectively irrelevant means that you can't even figure out what i wrote in that post. you seem like a retard.

Atheists have never gotten past David Hume. It is an epistemological dead end.

>>20544506
>This is usually what atheists do because you are, at best, middlebrow, mediocre thinkers, and these conversations as a result are tedious and dull.
protip: also applies to all other theists who believe in a form of religion which doesn't resemble your own.

>middlebrow, mediocre thinkers

check out the brain on brad, but he can he post one single reply that addresses something actually said to him 'without' resorting to childish political deflection?

>>20544494
You deny the existence of anything immaterial, yet you have to assume the existence of immaterial concepts to even make your retarded argument.
>logic
>principle of induction
>truth
>time
>identity over time
>causality
>the self
>external world
>numbers
>physical and mathematical laws
None of these are verified through empirical sense data.
Your position is self-refuting and incoherent.

>>20544354
Thanks, I'll check it out. The only other book I remember being actually laugh worthy was Catch-22 but it's been like 15 years since I've read it. Any other funny book recommendations from anons would be great.

>>20544591
The Long Dark Teatime of the Soul is funny. A lot of Douglas Adams books are pretty funny. I am not even an atheist. I am the anon arguing against the atheists. But I still think those books are funny desu

>>20544580
>immaterial concepts
You mean theories of things? Ideas in the brain?

No. If a person has a case 'in' reality about something 'in' reality (and nothing exists outside of reality) they will demonstrate it using reality to do so;
"logic, induction, causality (discerning truth thereby)" are not "immaterial" or "concepts", unless the case being made cannot be demonstrated in reality, using tangible references and objects to demonstrate and prove your case; to verify to yourself whether your supposition about one thing or another is likely to be correct or not.

The only thing that exists outside of proofs are the outlandish claims of religions to know stuff before conducting proper investigations, which is obvious confirmation bias from the moment they set out to do so.

>Your position is self-refuting and incoherent.
Your position is a childlike inversion of the principles and process of basic induction; of proofs for claims, of which you have none, and which is therefore an obvious deception (an act vice) on your part.

see: Chryisppus, Plotinus and St. Photios (if you like)

>>20544629
Nothing that you have said is a valid refutation of my post. You are assuming the existence of logic, for example, which CANNOT be found in matter. If you say that logic is just a chemical reaction in the brain, this too is self-defeating because one has no prior justification to assume that this matter can make accurate observations of matter. It is nonsensical.
You are wrong and your mind is stuck in the foundationalist method of epistemology, which even Quine acknowledged is inferior to epistemic holism.
Also Plotinus wasn't a Christian but even he would have known that you are severely wrong.

>>20544629
>types all of this
>says nothing

Oof.

>>20544629
>You mean theories of things? Ideas in the brain?
No. I am talking about transcendental categories and universals, the existence of which you deny, and yet also must assume in order to make your stupid argument.
And if you try to say that logical contradictions are valid and I am only begging the question, refer to Aristotle's refutation of the sophists.

>>20544629
>>20544599
I think, really, anon, to save us both from degenrating into "no u!" the way I came to think about this thing is like this;

You cannot believe in a god because you have no evidence or reference for it which you can recollect, and therefore 'pass' that lie detector test,

If this is so, which it is, then nobody claiming to "believe in a god" is believing 'in' any god at all, but rather the 'holy book' which has been presented to them 'as' the "word of god",

If this is so, which I think it certianly is ut let us say anyway it is the point of contention, then there are two paths to pursue "truth";
1) the material world which "god created", let's say, for us to study and learn,
or
2) there is the holy book, which is deeply flawed and encourages ignorance, nihilism and hatred toward the "material world and the human body" which, again, "god created in the first place".

So does a person believe in and be informed by a god of which they have no manner to study and learn about, or are they instead 'pretending' and in fact merely worshiping a book(?), which would be idolatry to start with..

>>20544660
you're still engaging in the vice of deception whilst claiming to argue for god, anon.

> I am talking about transcendental categories and universals, the existence of which you deny, and yet also must assume in order to make your stupid argument.
... can you demonstrate there being some other method to prove a thing, other than what I already said?

"Transendental" "universal" things based not in reality, or unable to be proved to exist in reality, are things Men make-up, anon. As Plotinus explained.

>name drops aristotle
see: Aristophanes on Socrates "the mystical guru clown".

> logical contradictions are valid
You haven't demonstrated any evidence that you know how to undertake logic as yet. As: you seem to be denying that 'logic' (accurate prediction, proofs of things, induction, etc.) cannot even exist.

>>20543018
Everyone is a reactionary at what they know best.

>>20544660
>>20544665
you're still engaging in the vice of deception whilst claiming to argue for god, anon.

> I am talking about transcendental categories and universals, the existence of which you deny, and yet also must assume in order to make your stupid argument.
... can you demonstrate there being some other method to prove a thing, other than what I already said?

"Transendental" "universal" things based not in reality, or unable to be proved to exist in reality, are things Men make-up, anon. As Plotinus explained.

>name drops aristotle
see: Aristophanes on Socrates "the mystical guru clown".

> logical contradictions are valid
You haven't demonstrated any evidence that you know how to undertake logic as yet. As: you seem to be denying that 'logic' (accurate prediction, proofs of things, induction, etc.) can even exist.

Do anons not understand that a person can poke fun at himself but still genuinely hold those beliefs? You don't have to be a serious, humorless nerd all the time.

>>20544665
Don't bother trying to argue with the mentally ill.

>>20544468
Death to Israel.

>>20542630
Ignatius is a volcel not an incel. He spends the entire book avoiding a hippie girl who wants to fuck him and finally gives in and shacks up with her when the normies are about to take him to the funny farm.

Tradcath types always had some woman they could settle for until onlyfans and tinder gave every woman above 4 a farm of simps and an endless stream of one-night-chads.

>>20544773
didn't finish the book but why would Ignatius have wanted to be with Myrna? they're polar opposites. And from their letter exchanges it seemed like he absolutely despised her yet she was the closest thing he had to a friend

>>20542630
congratulations op, you just ousted yourself as a fucking idiot who can not understand even comedic satiric absurdist literature. you are the exact person toole was writing about with his many characters in the book. you damn mynx....

>>20544773
>>20544821
He was a traditionalist catholic and she was a liberal jewish whore

You know what the worst thing about the TradLARP is? The liberals were right all along, it's literally just incel frustration. There is no great White Man's rage to restore the West to its rightful dignity and power. Everything just goes back to seething at normies and women.

>>20544874
very boring post

>>20544887
VGH THE HOTDOG ADS OF SVBVRBIA

>>20544895
tired of this meme

>>20544838
>He was a traditionalist catholic and she was a liberal jewish whore

both of those personalities are so conceited that they would inevitably be drawn to each other. Ignatius wouldn't keep up his correspondence with Myrna otherwise. He respects her more than anyone else I can remember in the book

>>20544874
someday historians are going to have to write about how trad catholicism became a refuge for disaffected loners

>>20544903
But their worldview and values are very much opposed to each other.

>>20544665
I'm genuinely disappointed you didn't even attempt to respond to anything I asked of you.. what several hours ago by now..? Very sad.

It's mind boggling to me how any actual human being with a working brain who can understand things like "don't stick your finger in an electric socket" can have their error demonstrated to them over and over again and just blank it all out.

It absolutely is Sluggish Schizophrenia. And we need to bring this diagnosis back.

I think you stayed in the thread though, as your writing style and prhases seem to carry along making remarks to other people with no evidence to back up what you say - i'm just guessing though.

>>20544887
>>20544733
much irony.

>>20544733
The difference is that when your psychopathy and asocial behavior is called out as mental illness it can be proven to be true.

>>20542630
Didn't Japs exist already?

>>20544744
Hail the Jewish people; hail victory!

The turn to psychologism on the left was such a retarded disaster kek. Still seething about how the mustache painter man won an election to this day. Thank G-d that anglo saxon liberals in the ivy league cleaned you up and domesticated you. That Freud to Frankfurt pipeline was getting really filthy and insane

Anyone who likes this book is a faggot

>>20544874
Keep telling yourself that

>>20544899
Just ignore him, fren.

>>20545791
Thanks for confirming you jews are the ones who get irrationally enraged at the very thought homosexuals might be restricted even a little bit.

>>20544874
Death to Israel.

>>20544404
one could argue the hippies were trad in their own way, hearkening back to pagan warbands

>>20546999
>>20547007
The living blood of the Jewish race shall dominate the sacred soil of Judea and Samaria. Forwards to the final victory!

>>20542630
Stupid frog poster

>>20544651
Oh shit, I didn't even see this reply yesterday, there I was telling you off for not responding. Sorry about that.

Well ok, I answered the first part of this already,
>. You are assuming the existence of logic, for example, which CANNOT be found in matter.
(i.e. logic is immaterial)

No, because here I pointed out: (which you didnt reply to) >>20544715

>>20544651
>If you say that logic is just a chemical reaction in the brain
No, I explained how 'logic' is derived purely via the material world through induction and the confirmation of proofs borne out by accurate prediction, and so on. There is nothing immaterial in this process nor anything immaterial about the process of induction; as: 'if' induction occurs with no anchors to the material world 'then' it is simply something that somebody has made-up.

This is really intensely simple; it was pointed out 'of' the Christians (their supposed belief in things that they cannot prove to exist and so cannot examine to learn anything about) by Plotinus and was largely put down in writing first of all by Chrysippus of Soli about four centuries beforehand.
>Also Plotinus wasn't a Christian
no shit lol

>You are wrong and your mind is stuck in the foundationalist method of epistemology,
I disagree; I have submitted my own opinions to the metrics of Cause and Proof of which there is no other means to study, learn or prove even the smallest notion is to be true of false.

As I said, w/re: "anchors in the material world" if these are absent in your manner of deduction then you have no working-basis to approach studying or learning about anything that exists in reality (can you cite an example of one thing that does exist in reality?).

And this isn't an insult this is a statement of fact.

Deductive Reasoning and Proofs is how knowledge is derived; not through DMT trips or Men falling down and hitting their heads and having dreams.
(incidentally even Jesus warned people against placing their credulity in 'dream visions' - when he's talking about people who pray in graveyards and filthy places)

whoops,
i mean
>(can you cite an example of one thing that does exist in reality?)
(can you cite an example of one thing that does -NOT- exist in reality?) i.e. this is rhetorical question, as there's no such thing as something that does "not" exist in reality.

>>20544556
Did you forget Nietzsche? He is the only honest atheist who takes it to its complete conclusion. Hume looks like an ignorant religious zealot in comparison to Nietzsche.

>>20548562
Nietzsche has as much internalized error though; there're several reasons why he's held up by former-religious persons who themselves suffer from the depression at having internalized the same things.

A proper 'atheist' in the real sense would be found moreso in the earlier Enlightenment Era, as a 'deist'; where the theistic preconceptions are thrown onto the garbage fire and the idea of 'divinity of the world' is examined soberly, or drunkenly as the case may be.

John Wilmot is a great example of this in 'a satire against mankind'.

>>20544895
kek
>>20544899
>>20546690
aww poor little nazis

>>20544821
I don't know. I'm personally from a fundamental Baptist background and the liberal jew girl at work is somehow really good friends with me. Sometimes those things don't matter if you find each other attractive.

>>20543085
>be me, 20 y/o NEET gymcel on an Evola/Guenon kick
>decide to take a break and pick up a novel for some light reading, start Confederacy two days ago
>other than being a lard (and actually having gone to school), Ignatius is eerily relatable to a caricature of my worst aspects
>it's the funniest novel I've ever read
It's refreshing to laugh at yourself sometimes, I think I read this right when I needed a kick in the ass to stop taking myself so seriously kek. Very glad I gave it a whirl.

>>20544821
>>20544838

I think the idea is that they both enjoy enraging each other and having pointless debates. Given Ignatius is someone who deliberately sees films he knows he'll hate just to get angry, it's not that out of character.

>>20542630
There is not yet a single novel that comes close to describing the "incel" in any meaningful manner. Men like this didn't exist before the 21st century.

>>20549069
im writing it

>>20549087
Not if I'm writing it first.

>>20542630
"incel" is a british globohomo psyop word to conceal the fact that abstinence makes you immortal

>>20549243
>british
>doesn't blame everything on the Jews
Dilate immediately you transgender communist.

>>20544773
>>20544821
If I recall, he was in a completely different part of her than her until the end, and both of them went to college together. Even if he's not some hippie dipshit like she is he's still a self-absorbed academic.

>>20549098
>>20549087
it's been done, guys

It was already a thing. He didn't predict anything. You just lack perspective, knowledge, the requisite brain cells...

>>20549069
>Men like this didn't exist before the 21st century.
You just haven't a clue.

>>20549243
that pepe is fapping so hard

>>20549031
>>20549285

maybe opposites do attract

>>20543018
Everyone is a reactionary at what they love the best.

>>20549522
wow it's almost like "racist" is a bullshit word british agents made up to insult americans

>>20550188
what do you mean?

>>20550287
He's an epic schizo. A very eccentric and interesting personality.

>>20544494
Not a Christian, but...
>1) you believe in the hebrew god from the garden of eden story; the god who exiles humans for wanting to know right from wrong, claiming that this knowledge will make them into gods.
It was the serpent who claimed the knowledge will make them into gods. There was no reason for them to eat the fruit other than hubris. It wasn't God, but the "fruit" itself that caused their deaths, because eating it was what brought evil into being.
>3) you've adopted a position of hateful nihilism toward reality (i.e. the material world and the human being), reinforced through the evil commands of these strange 'holy books'
Absolute reddit-tier drivel. Nowhere in the Bible does encourage a hateful nihilism towards the material world. I'm also curious about what commandments in the Bible you consider "evil".
>4) these 'holy books' were produced by ignorant savages in a culture absent of healing, learning, building or even military accomplishment.
Again, reddit-tier drivel. How the fuck would we know anything about the Hebrews if their civilization lacked any of those things? The Bible goes into detail about various structures, namely temples, and the deutero-canonical book of Sirach is explicit about honoring physicians and medicine (38:1-15).

>>20550534
>It was the serpent who claimed the knowledge will make them into gods.
No, it wasn't. Read your bible.

"God" becomes fearful that since Man and Woman have already become like gods after eating the piece of fruit, imparting them the knowledge of knowing right from wrong, that that "may next eat from the tree of immortality and become immortal" and that's when the god kicks them out.

Mr. Snek simply tells them that the fruit won't poison and kill them, as the god had claimed to keep them away from it.

>There was no reason for them to eat the fruit other than hubris.
I disagree strongly with this; "hubris"? It reads more like they wanted to "be good people" please the god.

There is an interesting lesson there though about the error of religious people who "think they're being good, whilst being evil", or the notion of fake morality itself is what is being described in the story, something like this.

>It wasn't God, but the "fruit" itself that caused their deaths, because eating it was what brought evil into being.
They didn't die from eating it, they populated the world, you're supposed to believe - it's the creation story of humans. And no, they were 'already' going to die as they hadn't eaten from the "tree of immortality", duh.

> reddit-tier
yeah ok

>Nowhere in the Bible does encourage a hateful nihilism towards the material world.
Original Sin, Rejection of life in favor of immortality after death, "salvation is not through deeds", Genital mutilation, endorsement of slavery, etc.

Also especially read Paul in Romans where he talks about how being good; giving o charity or helping a homeless person is physically impossible, and also study the early, middle and contemporary present day Christians who reject the "material world", say that "devil made the world", and become nihilists. Or atheists, as the Romans called them at the time; for holding no actionable doctrines.

>reddit-tier drivel.
>How the fuck would we know anything about the Hebrews if their civilization lacked any of those things?
>The Bible goes into detail about various structures, namely temples,
Absent is the information, owever, on the Hebrew surgeons, philosophers, scientists, engineers of roads, aqueducts, heated floors; engineers of great works, agricultural writers, law makers (humane laws; democratic republican forms, etc.), artists, municipal planners, military leaders, military engineers, astronomers, mathematicians, etc.

Jesus had good reason to try and lift his people out of the genital mutilation cult of barbarian theocracy and null progress that he found them wallowing in.

They also didn't manage to build any good buildings; modern jerusalem was rebuilt by Emperor Hadrian and the "wailing wall" is the remnants of the Roman garrison, whilst Emperor Constantine built the Sepulchre.

>Sirach
didn't read.

> honoring physicians
That's nice but you can't present anything comparable to Hippocrates or all the others who 'were' physicians.

>>20549069
>Men like this didn't exist before the 21st century.

Sure they did. They were called monks and cannon fodder.

>>20550534
>Not a Christian, but...
i believe you

> It wasn't God, but the "fruit" itself that caused their deaths, because eating it was what brought evil into being.
I think the Prometheus version of this is more along the lines of what you're thinking of here;

Prometheus, who knows why, told the early humans to break Jupiters 1st Commandment by eating the meat of the animals they had hunted, which he had ordered them to burn and keep the skins and fat for themselves. When Jupiter found this out he was so angry that he created a Woman and sent her to earth to spread chaos; she had a jar full of Evil Things which she let out into the world; or which fled from her because she was so evil, but one evil stayed behind; the evil of False Hope, which relied on having a human host in the form of a pretty young Woman.

Better explanation for things imo. The idea that "original sin" (or 'all evil') came from humans desiring to know right from wrong is far more bizarre.

>>20550295
do you suck queen elizabeth's cock with that mouth?

>>20544591
I got a few laughs out of Lucky Jim.

>>20550188
It was actually made up by Russian communist jews.

>>20548991
nice greentext! mind if I post on /r/4chan?

>>20542726
This

>>20543018
>All intelligent and sensitive heterosexual White men are reactionaries at heart.
Pandering to your audience

>>20542630
Ignatius was clearly a leftie liberation theologist. He tried to instigate a race riot in his own workplace.

I don't understand you bugman libtards. You don't believe in free will and are naturalists/ materialists so why do you do you rage and seethe about incels, trads, reactionaries, whatever? If you take your world view to it's logical conclusion you should want to help all people who end up "fucked up" because it wasn't their fault, yet your all assholes and a net negative on society, Curious.

>>20552750
commies aren't people, they're just the pope's goyim

>>20552750
>waaah give me pussy
cope

>>20552750
I hate to be the "both sides bad" guy but nihilistic relativistic atheistic materialism and fundamentalist traditionalist dogmatic authoritarian zealotry are both extremely fucking terrible and literally poison the mind

>>20552750
>rage and seethe about incels, trads, reactionaries, whatever
Probably most people are unconsciously galled by the hypocrisy of such people. I am. But it's just a social way to shame people into doing something better with themselves; I don't think anybody is really "angry" about those things in and of themselves.

... although I do notice that you've not responded again to my last reply and I can use my reality-based materialst method of deduction and induction (and proof in accurate prediction) to tell by your phrases and thought structure that you're the same person.
>You don't believe in free will and are naturalists/ materialists

>>20552820
Well, come up with something better or pick a side. There's nothing I hate more than a conchy.

>>20552820
I mean, I'm obviously kidding ^^^, but there is no like "two sides" to any of these thing; there's no organized religious thing (well not really) teaching people to go out and say XYZ and there's no organized atheist thing (well not really) teaching people to go out and say XYZ either.

It's a conversation between two humans on subjects they find interesting. It's not like two political parties trying to convince an audience, altho.. some people do start out with that error in mind.

>>20544191
Faggoty way to write he was a hypocrite (as most fatties are) but true nonetheless.