/lit/ - Literature

The Authoritarian Personality.

>>20497962

>>20497962
>Preferably more philosophical in nature, and no /pol/ tier books please.
Start with The Doctrine of Fascism by Giovanni Gentile and Benito Mussolini. After that you can read The Theory of Mind as Pure Act by Gentile.
You can also listen to this if you like:
https://youtu.be/mEoS_NAWM_8

>>20497971
>fascism

>>20497962

Fascism Viewed from the Right, Julius Evola. Julius Evola in general is good for more philosophical and metaphysical foundations of anti-modernity, but he says that fascism is too leftist for him, because it's too materialistic.

>>20498144
Evola was a pseud and a hypocrite. He presented his pseudo-spiritual opinions like they were some absolute truths in which everyone believed before modernity. Tradlarpers are full of pretensions but they don't even understand what they are trying to refute.

https://www.international-communist-party.org/BasicTexts/English/22Fascis.htm
https://www.international-communist-party.org/BasicTexts/English/24Fascis.htm
https://www.international-communist-party.org/English/Document/69TheOnl.htm
http://www.ruthlesscriticism.com/fascismtheses.htm

>>20497962
Zeev Sternhell - The Birth of Fascist Ideology
A. James Gregor - Mussolini’s Intellectuals

It’s very obvious we need fascism in the modern west but why even try when our populations are so diluted with trash? Even if every single white became hard right over night we would still not have adequate numbers and political power to get back into space or change things.

We sincerely need multicultural fascism which could be achieved with the higher races like Japanese and select Asians. I’ve heard China has developed some diseases that can target and kill blacks but if we used that we would have to do it slowly like quantitative easing. Step one is killing all gays, that’s something a functioning society can do without since none of them have structural jobs.

>>20498226
> Step one is killing all gays, that’s something a functioning society can do without since none of them have structural jobs.
Start with the Greeks

>>20498226
>Step one is killing all gays
what about killing anti-gays? that would make us closer to the fascist ethnostate

>>20498241
>>20498256
I see it’s still before the school bell has rung, have a good day at school Lance

>>20498144
That's why he claims to be a super fascist.

Codreanu, most empassioned book i have read.

>>20498226
This man has the star of david somewhere in his room.

This one is interesting, also Paul Gottfried’s book on the subject

>>20498320
Super means over or beyond, not more.
He was past fascism, not the most fascist

>>20497962
Philosophy - Pagan Imperialism, an earlier title was Roman Traditionalism

Short Story - Awakening of a National Socialist

Mindset & Emotional appeal - For my Legionaires, Codreanu.

Still reading the rest, Egger is quite pleasant to read and fast becoming a favorite.

Anyone interested in fascist anticapitalism should read these:
https://counter-currents.com/tag/breaking-the-bondage-of-interest/

>>20498110
>posts homosexual anime twink in a dress\
>discusses Fascism
What an entertaining political landscape we have here

>>20497962
All these recommendations are trash.

A. James Gregor's work on the subject is the academic standard. The Young Mussolini and the Intellectual Origins of Fascism is the best study on Fascist political thought. Edmondo Rossoni was a political figure though not an intellectual. He would be on the 'left'-wing of Fascism. He never quite abandoned the idea of class struggle. He voted Mussolini off in the grand council of fascism. I don't remember if he defected or not. He was also a freemason. Sergio Panunzino is also one of the chief theoreticians of Fascism. I don't know any of his works translated to English. Giovanni Gentile is the most rigorous philosopher of Fascism. The 'corporate' state is esentially a dynamic one. The idea was to govern with pragmatism and without ideology. This also entails having a dynamic economy— which in Fascist Italy the mode of economic organization changes around 4 times during the regime. During the Republic of Saló the Fascists began 'socialization' of the means of production. It never bore any fruit because the war was practically over

>>20497962
It’s mostly untranslated; most of the meat of the Theory is in Italian but I still managed to compile a reading list.

1. Start with the "Introduction" to Thought Thinking, edited by Bruce Haddock and James Wakefield
2. Move onto Harris introduction to Genesis and Structure of Society
3a. If you have the philosophical chops for it jump straight into The Theory Of Mind As Pure Act
3b. If not start reading The Social Philosophy of Giovanni Gentile, by H. S. Harris.
4. While reading 3b, start reading some of Gentile's shorter texts from Thought Thinking
I: Start with "The Method of Immanence"
II: Then "The Moral Problem"
III: "Pure Experience and Historical Reality"
IV: and last "Basic Concepts of Actualism"
5. Move onto the main text of Genesis and structure of society. This is Gentile's most important work
6. Then revisit The Theory Of Mind As Pure Act with 4.IV in mind.

Essay on Relativism by Mussolini, The Political Doctrine of Fascism, Doctrine of Fascism, and finally the Fascist programs 1919 to 1943.

>>20499001
>The idea was to govern with pragmatism and without ideology.
Wrong, Fascism is a dialectical philosophy. The complexity of the topic has shown that Italian Fascism was not merely a straightforward dictatorship of a single man, that’s retarded. Gentiles conception of the state was a synthetic creation that evolved with the people, when Gentile uses the word ‘state’ he means the people. What Fascism actually went through was the reform of Italian society gradually. In this true essence Italian Fascism on the state level is an application of dialectics. On June 24, 1943, Giovanni Gentile delivered a speech in Rome, asking Italian workers to resist the Anglo-Americans, he expressly addressed leftist circles by presenting Fasxism as "an order of justice founded on the principle that the only value is work". And Gentile specified: "Whoever speaks of communism in Italy today is an impatient corporatist."

This revelation was found in the reality of Fascist economy. Mussolini always insisted that Fascism was the only form of ‘socialism’ appropriate to the ‘proletarian nations’ of the twentieth century such as Italy. He always argued it was the only aplicable version of Socialism in reality. The original intention was always Socialism and focused on development for social ends. Adding to the clarity of the misconceptions of those who twist reality. A. James Gregor makes this argument in Italian Fascism and Developmental Dictatorship. Fascism in essence was a practical application of Marxism as Gentile would argue via Sorelian praxis leading to a new society of producers. Fascism was an attempt to overturn Anglo-American capitalist hegemony. It was a dialectical application of productive forces for a society of abundance. And it was the attempt to create a society that understood the Scientific application of historical nuances and material reality. Meaning the socialism of Fascism is a process of becoming.

Seconding the Gregor recommendation and I recommend also reading Sternhell when you read Gregor.

For Germany, read Mosse's German Ideology, Klemperer's Germany's New Conservatism, Stern's Politics of Cultural Despair, Armin Mohler's Conservative Revolution (the existing English translation is not good so if you read another language that's a bonus), and Rohkramer's Single Communal Faith. Lots of other good books on more specific topics, like Bramwell's Hitler's Green Party.

For Falange, read Payne, and read collected speeches and essays of Primo de Rivera.

For Romania, read Nagy-Talavera and For My Legionaries.

Do you guys consider Singapore to be fascist?

>>20497962
Was there any good fascist poetry? Or were they too focused on killing all da joos to devote themselves to artistic pursuits?

>>20498110
Always with the shapeshifting.

>>20499052
Read Griffin's Modernism and Fascism, just skip the early theoretical chapters and get to the parts on fascist culture. Right wing modernism encompasses Pound, Eliot, Yeats, Stefan George, Gottfried Benn, many others.

>>20497962
Wilhelm Reich's Mass Psychology of Fascism

>>20497962
I've got this book, seems to be very rare. Picture stolen from the internet because I can't be bothered to take my own. It's called The Philosophy of Fascism by Mario Palmieri. It's a very nice book, seems to be made from sheepskin or something. My edition is signed by the author.

I have another called The History of the Facist Movement by Gioachino Volpe. I haven't read this one since it's in very poor shape.

There's a great book called Mussolini as revealed in his political speeches that traces the development of Musollini's political thought from Marxism to fascism. Needless to say, all o the above books are incredibly rare.

There's a lot other books here: http://bibliotecafascista.blogspot.com/p/books.html

>>20499070
This is good if you want to find out that not fingering your ass every day makes you a fascist. Round it out with Adorno's Authoritarian Personality too, so you can find out that not letting someone steal your bike is fascist, and being angry when someone cuts in line is fascist.

>>20499052

>>20499052
Zang Tumb Tuuuuuumb

>>20498110
He's always right.

>>20499289
Being anti-homos is like being anti-women, because many of them degenerated you imagine that they are all bad to society.

>>20497962
In 1919 Jung released his book National Socialism: Its Foundations, Its History, and Its Goals. Drawing inspiration from sources as varied as the social-democratic, unionist and pan-German traditions from which the party originally sprang, as well as from such diverse figures as Lagarde, List, Chamberlain, Lensch, Dühring, Schönerer, Spengler, Gesell, Lassalle, Sorel, Proudhon, Berth, Bietry, Marx, Sombart, Naumann, and Rodbertus. It represented in many ways the culmination of decades’ worth of interlap between the völkisch, Marxist, and conservative-socialist philosophical streams in Germany and Austria. Jung synthesized them all in his intellectual crucible and the result was the work on which the entire National Socialist theoretical tradition was to be built.

The impact of Jung’s work cannot be overstated, despite its obscurity. Gottfried Feder’s The German State on a National and Social Basis, Hitler’s Mein Kampf, and Alfred Rosenberg’s The Myth of the 20th Century all were influenced by Jung. It was the first major work dealing with National Socialist theory and ideology, and it was to provide all subsequent works with much of their tone, their substance, and their slogans. Many aspects of doctrine commonly attributed to Feder, such as the concept of Mammon and the distinctions between productive and rapacious capital, were first described by Jung. Alois Hudal’s The Foundations of National Socialism and Richard Walther Darré in the NSDAP’s post-Urban Plan period utilized Jung’s rhetoric to a fuller extent in comparison to other works. Darré is by far the most influenced by Jung, as Jung outlines a vision of German history in which the idealized pre-industrial harmony of medieval German peasant life was disrupted by the intrusion of corrupting capitalism, materialistic Marxism, internationalism, and Judaism just as Richard Walter Darré framed in his views of blood and soil with agrarianism and environmentalism.


Werner Sombart was a German historical economist and sociologist of the historical school of economics. He was a disillusioned Marxist who adopted and revised Marxian socialism to fit a nationalistic framework. Sombart is considered one of the major thinkers behind the German revolutionary conservative movement. He is also famous for coining the term “Late Stage Capitalism” – being something he described in his two books Modern Capitalism and The Jews and Modern Capitalism.

1/2

>>20499307
Though Sombart never joined the Nazi party, he was a major supporter of Nazism up to his death. Sombart, besides providing the key academic analysis for National Socialism to reject capitalism, even provided another key theoretical foundation of National Socialism that would include Jung along with everything else to come. For Sombart, the highest ideal is the German idea of the State. As formulated by Fichte, Lassalle, Hegel, and Rodbertus, the state is neither founded nor formed by individuals, nor an aggregate of individuals, nor is its purpose to serve any interests of individuals. It is a National community in which the individual has no rights but only duties. For Sombart, Liberty, Equality, and Fraternity are characteristically capitalistic ideals that have no other purpose but to secure certain advantages to individuals and therefore are counter to any nationalistic mindset. All of this would become key points to Hitler’s ideology.

2/2

>>20499064
Just downloaded and will read it this weekend. Do you have any other recommendations?

>>20499144
He wasn't a poet?

>>20499198
Looks interesting. Is there an English translation and is it any good?

>>20499289
It's hilarious to me that all of these pre-liberal communists were extremely homophobic and considered fascism to be a homosexual ideology.

>>20499333
tf is this

>>20499340
communists used to accuse fascist of everything they disliked, mainly of being capitalists

>>20498110
>Giovanni Gentile
a literal communist/socialist

>>20499026
falangism is not fascism.
national-socialism is not fascism.
romanian nationalism is not fascism.

real fascism is only the italian one led by mussolini.

>>20499723
>is only the italian one
*the italian nationalism led by mussolini

>>20499723
Says you, but many disagree.

>>20499723
>Fascism (/ˈfæʃJzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and the economy that rose to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

>>20499630
sorry but fascism is not reactionary

>>20499768
>picking up leftist wikipedia definition that explains nothing

you didn't explain nothing.

> The Italian Origin of Fascism
>The words fascism and fascist have long been associated with the Fascisti of Benito Mussolini and the fasces, the bundle of rods with an ax among them, which the Fascisti used as a symbol of the Italian people united and obedient to the single authority of the state. However, Mussolini did not introduce the word fascista (plural fascisti) with the 1919 organization of the Fasci di combattimento (“combat groups”), nor did the fasces have any direct connection with the origin of fascista. In Italian, the word fascio (plural fasci) means literally “bundle,” and figuratively “group.” From at least 1872 fascio was used in the names of labor and agrarian unions, and in October 1914 a political coalition was formed called the Fascio rivoluzionario d’ azione internazionalista (“revolutionary group for international action”), which advocated Italian participation in World War I on the side of the Allies. Members of this group were first called fascisti in January 1915. Although Mussolini was closely associated with this interventionist movement, it had no direct link with the post-war Fasci di combattimento, and in 1919 the word fascista was already in political circulation. It is, however, to the Fascisti in their 1919 incarnation—who seized power in Italy three years later—that we owe the current customary meanings of our words fascism and fascist.

>>20499723

>>20499804
Was Hitler a Jewish op?

>>20499812
benito mussolini was a socialist too

>>20499723
Fichtes would theorize the idea of an “Ethical Socialism” (that Hitler would find inspiration in) after having some of his ideas change due to the French Revolution. But his works build a link between Italian Fascism and Hitler’s National Socialism. Giovanni Gentile was partially inspired by Fichte, and this has been documented by works done on the Italian philosopher. If we were to take a look at Fichte’s understanding of the role of the State.

>>20499723
This but unironically

>>20499826
Nothing wrong with socialism. I meant him being neutral towards "international finance capitalism".

>>20499289
>Remove atypical sexual minorities from society
>Remove the causes of atypical sexual minorities from society
>Remove those who push for atypical sexual minorities
>Society progresses as a nationalist, family orientated productive state
>No need for Reactionary movements

Who would of thunk it?

>>20499723
There's fascism and there's fascism.
Don't be a sperg.

Clerical fascism.

>>20499723
le no true scotsman

>>20499768
Literally explain to me why this isn’t good? Every society has forcible suppression of opposition to varying degrees which is decided as time goes on. I think after seeing how society is who the FUCK doesn’t think oppression of some kind is good? Concepts of White Privilege are oppressive by their nature. Beyond all the faggot cultural shit how is a structured economy also not good? Are we supposed to believe unfettered capitalism is good? NOBODY believes that. Fascism is good and positive and we need fascism NOW if we wish to stop climate change.

>>20501462
Liberal capitalism is the dominant ideology of the time so that's why it's 'good'. Every ideology brainwashes its citizens to think everything else is extreme and theirs is the best.

>>20498995
Lots of gays support fascism. Just look at /lit/.

>>20498168
>which everyone believed
You do not even understand one of the core principles of Evola's thinking.

>>20498226
We don't need fascism, we need total collapse and a divine monarchy, nigger.

>>20499489
They still do that. Everything they say is projection.

>>20500267
>Remove the causes of atypical sexual minorities from society
What are the causes and how do we remove them?

>>20501779
Gays sexually reproduce by corrupting kids. Whether that be through confusing them and then grooming them in their initial phase of self discovery (which they take sexual pleasure in) or simply through abuse. Also stronger family also means better family and stronger and more moral father figures make less gays.
>t. every gay I know irl was either abused or had a bad relationship with their dad before "realising" they were gay.

What is lit's opinion on pic related?

>>20501878
>In 2021, Paxton wrote an op-ed for Newsweek in which he stated that he now believed Donald Trump was a fascist

Does anything more need be said.

>>20497962
Rudolf Jung’s work National Socialism: Its Foundations, Development, and Goals, the first book which sought to offer a full, systematic exposition of the entire breadth of the National Socialist ideological worldview.

It constituted the first genuine attempt by a member of the National Socialist movement to actually set out the theoretical aspects of National Socialist doctrine on any kind of comprehensive, intellectual level. Articles or pamphlets had been written on NS ideology in the past, but nothing of the range or scope (or length) of Jung’s book. Jung’s ambition was to be the ‘Karl Marx’ of National Socialism, and his stated hope to those who knew him was that his book would serve as the movement’s Das Kapital.

>>20497962
Fascism is gay as fuck.

>>20499091
Many such cases...

>>20502349
Your mom is also gay and if she never took Chad's dick because he offered her money you wouldn't be here

>>20499723
>not real comm- er, fascism

>>20498978
Is this faggot required reading?

>>20498226
>step one genocide the fags
Why do want to die so badly?

>>20499001
>The idea was to govern with pragmatism and without ideology.

>>20497962
Jünger and Max Stirner

>>20501893
Fascism is just rule by puffed-up gangsters, criminals and crooked businessmen so it fits. It's like putting Tony Montana in charge of your country.

>>20499289
>Exterminate all cuckolds and socialism will vanish
-Anon

>>20497962

>>20500267
>>20501779
>>20501788
unscientific schizo nonsense. the reason gays are more likely to have bad relationships with their fathers is because gays are more likely to exhibit feminine behaviours, as a result of feminisation in the womb.

>>20502548
You can't have it both ways. You can not profess a creed and culture that values the exact opposite of what your religious values impose. Either your values align with a fascist world view or they align with a judeo-christian world view. There is no overlap without insincerit or obfuscation.

>>20497962
Bataille's Essay the psychological structure of fascism (makes more sense if you read it with his other essays)
D&G's Anti-Oedipus
Wilhelm Reich's The Mass Psychology of Fascism

>>20503739
>You can not profess a creed and culture that values the exact opposite of what your religious values impose.
That's exactly what the Normans did though. There is an Archangel called Michael who carries the sword and kills his enemies. He was the patron saint of the Normans, the manliest race in Europe since the Romans.

>>20497962
>no /pol/ tier books please
you're already revealing your preferences by having a bias and already diluting the quality of what you're planning to read by wanting a meme ideology from 1920s italy

>>20498168
t. has never read a single evola book, has gotten his criticism of evola from wikipedia or left wing youtubers, has copied this criticism from someone else's post and is guilty of being full of pretentious yet not even knowing what he is trying to refute

>>20498226
>It’s very obvious we need fascism in the modern west
no, it isn't. fascism is a joke, national socialism is superior
>why even try when our populations are so diluted with trash
why try fascism when its core tenet is of cultural assimilation? the usa proves that never worked
>We sincerely need multicultural fascism
hahahahahaha, and the civnat "trad" larper reveals himself, desperately looking for ANY solution that doesn't involve eugenics or racism because he is personally invested in not being racist for reasons he cannot address
>Step one is killing all gays, that’s something a functioning society can do without since none of them have structural jobs
your priorities don't even make sense. if you're talking about "structural jobs", whatever that means, then step one would be killing all niggers because they don't even have jobs full stop. if your criterion for execution is "structural job" then that would mean killing all women too.

you are low iq

>>20498668
i am not reading a book written by a jew, AA

>>20503765
>amerimutt christcuck openly advocates to profess a creed and culture that values the exact opposite of your religious values
thanks for implicitly accepting and admitting that your entire worldview is contradictory. there is only 2 possibilities for someone who believes in something they know to be a contradiction - you're either a larper or a charlatan. enjoy your shitskin metaphysical communist religion. it makes sense that you would post this retarded meme >>20502548 that even in itself cannot refute any of the claims made

>>20498978
very good collection, chad

>>20498110
>advocates mussolini and gentile
>posts anime femboy
checks out, joke ideology

>>20499001
>the academic standard
stopped reading. nobody cares about watered down, political pragmatism, it is actual philosophical and metaphysical thought that is important, which is why people with an IQ over 105 read Evola and not Mussolini
>>20499026
>thread about fascism
"for germany read" stopped reading. if you're not smart enough to differentiate national socialism, falangism & romanian nationalism from fascism why should you be acknowledged?
>>20499052
>retarded question
>omg dey r killin da joos
sounds like your mind is made up, and it's obvious you haven't done the slightest bit of independent research, so why are you even asking?
>>20499070
>freudian analysis of fascism
no ty
>>20499340
pre-liberal communists actually achieved something, and so recognized that you need people who can actually fight on your side, not women, trannies, fags and niggers

>>20499768
>googled definition as an argument
low IQ
all of those apply to the USSR hilariously enough, if you don't have a concrete definition of "far right"

>>20500275
>no argument
>>20500935
>>20502540
t. leftist who does not know the difference

>>20499812
obviously not, amerimutt

>>20500581
>>20502629
onions and cringe

>>20503765
Your creed is not based on the Judaic angel Michael, but on the sacrifice of Christ. One third of the total godhead that was sacrificed by us to pardon the sins the other two thirds oringinally condemned us for. There are truly great parts of the bible, Talmud and Koran too, but the fundemental virtue of the Abrahamic tradition in Chirst is meekness, mercy and forgiveness, Christ/God will forgive all sins, as you must strive too

This in itself is immoral. It is the creed of marxism, we are all equal before God. A warrior who kills in the name of Christ is not rewarded anymore than the child-abuser who truly repends. This is disgusting to me. Many other thinkers come after the bibles composition to try justitying all manner or things, but they are all anti-biblical and therefore anti-christ.

>>20497962
Serious answer here OP. Gottfried's Fascism: The Career of a Concept. Also, anything by A James Gregor. Gregor is probably the no.1 scholar on fascism and for a time was an actual fascist who publicly supported eugenics and Oswald Mosley, so he's not just gonna shit on it but consider it a serious ideology. He has a translation of Gentiles Doctrine of Fascism, and for that matter anything by Gentile would also be worth reading.

>>20502548
There is no objective reason why a Godhead would care about every individual. Before the advent of Christ, Gods favored the bold, the strong, the lucky and the brave. Now we have the inversion of that, victim culture is the inevitable outcome of multiculturalism + christian theology.

>>20500581

clerical fascism as a definition is an oxymoron, something really contradictory, Italian fascism, particularly sansepolcrism, (the true definition of fascism) was a communist-like movement very critical of Christianity. to be precise you can call yourself a "clerical nationalist" which is more correct as a definition, to call yourself a "clerical fascist" is like saying you are an Italian Freemason and at the same time a Christian nationalist, therefore it does not make the slightest sense. D'Annunzio (i.e., a hedonist, a martinist Freemason, and a fraud), Marinetti (i.e., a futurist, proponent of "destroying the old world to create a new world" in his Futurist Manifesto), Gentile (i.e., a socialist, Hegelian idealist), Balbo (a Freemason), and many other theorists of fascism were not Christians and some were also Freemasons.

>>20504929
huh..?

>>20504330
>no, it isn't. fascism is a joke, national socialism is superior
I have to hear this embarrassing response, don't disappoint now.

>>20498118
dumb slavshitter

>>20504950
"huh" What ? Name now a nationalist figure that the left labels as a "clerical-fascist" and has self-labeled as being clerical-fascist, I really want you to quote me the exact phrase "I am a clerical fascist." I'll answer you, you can't because it doesn't exist. Defining all historical prewar nationalist movements as fascist is merely a trick of the left and leftist historians, the whole thing is done on purpose to confuse young people and to make them believe that all nationalist movements are exactly the same as Italian fascism and thus copy and paste of the Mussolinian model, when in fact often, these historical prewar nationalist movements were very different, indeed too different to be the same thing.

>>20500581
>Religion based in egalitarian values, forgiveness and a brotherhood that rejects race and has you as worthless without christ and that all suffering will be rewarded in a hypothetical second life.

Vs

>Political theory based on strict heirarchy, anti-egalitarian values, materialistic concerns, blood & soil mentality and that self-sacrifice is rewarded now.

Good luck reconciling these.

>>20504693
>Gods favored the bold, the strong, the lucky and the brave. Now we have the inversion of that
Empirically, they still do

>>20505204
>Empirically, they still do

The theology favors the downtrodden, the weak, the contemptable. He who would be last will be first and he who would be first will be last.

Emperically, they are all the same by virtue of his grace being completely out of reach unless you do this singular act.

>>20505110
(cont.)
Moreover, I would like to add that Mussolini's Italy was the first Western country to recognize the USSR as a legitimate state. how can one call oneself a fascist and a Christian if mussolini, the fascist par excellence who considered himself a disciple of (((Lenin)))), was practically an atheist who wanted to abolish the vatican (at least in the first phase of his government before Patti Lateranensi, from Lateran Pacts was born "clerical fascism" but limited to an Italian context of Italian Catholic priests favoring fascism, nothing to do with other European nationalist movements outside of Italy) and who recognized the first bloody atheist state on earth, the Soviet Union?

>>20499340
>and considered fascism to be a homosexual ideology

It's true tho
https://daily.jstor.org/ernst-rohm-the-highest-ranking-gay-nazi/

>>20505361
>ernst-rohm
>fascist
.....
>Mussolini was never a stickler for puritan morality, to say the least, but there was one vice which the Italians particularly loathe; they call it il vizio tedesco, the German vice. The conduct of some members in Hitler’s entourage at Venice disgusted the Italians. Mussolini protested against the moral character and political unreliability of the leading personnel in the Nazi Storm Troops and warned Hitler that he would have to sacrifice his favorite colleagues if he wished to save his own
personal prestige and that of his regime. Among those colleagues, Roehm, Heines and Karl Ernst were mentioned.

>>20505361
This tactic is called alienation and is common on the left. They attempt to drive a wedge between two things by highlighting a singular or rare instance of percieved contention then applying it to the whole.

In this instance it was precisely this behavior that brought the National Socialiste in to power. We are not taught this because it goes against the world-view we are conditioned to follow. Homosexuality, transexualism, child prostitution, sex gangs in the woods, the Weimar Wild Boys, all of these groups offended the normal, family oriented population and thus were willing to accept their complete removal from society without a second though.

>picrel, a completely normal mutual attraction that is not in any way predatory.

>>20504412
take your meds, mass replying tranny

>>20504330
>national socialism is superior

So, being a liberal progressive? They even Eugenics now with gender surgery and hormones.

>>20505395
>singular or rare instance
It isn't rare when the most successful fascist government was full of homosexuals and pederasts.

>>20505395
>highlighting a singular or rare instance of percieved contention then applying it to the whole.
unfortunately it's not true...
other nazi (nazi not fascist) gays were:

Joseph Friedrich Abert

B

Helmuth Brückner

D

Heimito von Doderer

E

Hanns Heinz Ewers

H

Karl-Günther Heimsoth
Edmund Heines
Prince Hubertus of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (pilot)

I

Per Imerslund

K

Max Kommerell

P

Otto Peltzer
Philipp, Landgrave of Hesse

R

Otto Rahn
Ernst vom Rath
Ernst Röhm
Gerhard Roßbach
Jutta Rüdiger

S

H. A. Sinclair de Rochemont

Z

Hans Severus Ziegler

>>20505395
>Homosexuality, transexualism, child prostitution, sex gangs in the woods, the Weimar Wild Boys, all of these groups offended the normal, family oriented population and thus were willing to accept their complete removal from society without a second thought.

Then why were they all given posistions in the Nazi Party?

>>20505170
>>Religion based in egalitarian values, forgiveness and a brotherhood that rejects race and has you as worthless without christ and that all suffering will be rewarded in a hypothetical second life.
The remarkable thing is, you could serve this up as a description of Christianity to modern people, and many of them would probably agree.

>>20505437
>>20505440
>>20505445

>This tactic is called alienation and is common on the left. They attempt to drive a wedge between two things by highlighting a singular or rare instance of percieved contention then applying it to the whole.

Called it.

>>20505475
I'm telling you it wasn't rare. You even see it today with comments like this >>20498110

>>20505475
I'm telling you, nobody would hate the jews so much if they didn't act like venomous goblins.

>>20505041
>no argument

>>20505383
Hitler himself molested his niece and she later committed suicide. If you only consider Mussolini fascist and the Nazis a perversion of fascism then this information is irrelevant to you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geli_Raubal

>>20505497
Fascists and Zionists have a lot in common. They even work with the same group of people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Skorzeny

>>20505475
Look, I just wanted to show you that roehm was not the only gay person in the national socialist party with that list (so it is not a singular case, but I admit it is a rather small list, so it is not fair to say that all natsoc were gay, but gay natsocs existed and it is anti-historical to deny it) in general the natsocs condoned homosexuality/bisexuality (in some cases they also condoned Jewish ancestry, as in the case of Werner Goldberg) in order to increase the number of members in their party, at least in the initial phase of their creation, before the introduction of 175 paragraph.

>>20505484
Are you comparing an ironic shitpost, probably of your own making, on an asian paperfolding website to the most feared political system we have seen upon this planet?

>>20505512
That's because if germans deserve a homeland for their people so do jews. It's not revolutionary.

>>20505484
>>20505518

>>This tactic is called alienation and is common on the left. They attempt to drive a wedge between two things by highlighting a singular or rare instance of percieved contention then applying it to the whole.

daily reminder that anti-homo views of fascists comes from catholic reactionary thought that is against our racial revolutionary ideas, reactionaries will get the rope

>>20505572
False-Flagging this hard.

>>20505539
natsoc+jew gay pedo love story

>Ernst vom Rath was a high-level SA official who had received a diplomatic posting to the German embassy in Paris. While serving there he had taken up with a seventeen-year-old male prostitute by the name of Herschel Grynszpan, a Polish Jew (Read and Fisher:33). In partial payment for his services, Grynszpan had extracted a promise from vom Rath that his parents would be spared the consequences of a recent law that “revoked the citizenship of Polish Jews who had been living abroad for more than five years and who still retained Polish citizenship” (Rector:57). But vom Rath apparently failed to keep his promise; Grynszpan’s family, along with thousands of others “were herded into camps in a no-man’s land along the border region of Zbonszyn in freezing weather” (ibid.:58).
>In retaliation, Grynszpan shot vom Rath on the night of November 7, 1938. Two days later the Nazis staged the “Night of Broken Glass.” Grynszpan was seized by the Gestapo in 1940 (ibid:58). When at last they had him in their possession, however, their planned high-profile courtroom prosecution went up in smoke. “At the last moment the trial was canceled on Hitler’s orders: Grynszpan had threatened to reveal a homosexual relationship with Rath” (ibid.:58). The Nazis were furious. “Vom Rath had been sold to the world as an official martyr, shot down in the service of the Fuehrer. He had even been given a state funeral at which Hitler himself had been a mourner. Was he now to be portrayed in the world’s press as a queer with a taste for seventeen-year-old boys?” (Read and Fisher:252).

>>20505395
>This tactic is called alienation and is common on the left.
That's not what alienation means

>>20505657
>>20505665

>>>This tactic is called alienation and is common on the left. They attempt to drive a wedge between two things by highlighting a singular or rare instance of percieved contention then applying it to the whole.

>>20505657
>>20505707
I ask pardon to the Rath family, i've just seen this was a jewish lie from a jew con man male prostitute.

>Soltikow was sued for defamation by the Rath family. In 2013, Dutch historian Sidney Smeets called Solitkow a con man whose allegations about Grynszpan and Rath were lies.[52] During his trial in Munich, Soltikow claimed that Grynszpan was present during the previous day's court proceedings as a spectator.[48] When the judge said that if that were true Grynszpan would have to be arrested for Rath's murder, an angry Soltikow claimed that Grynszpan would never show his face again.

>>20505585
This is no "false-flagging", is simply logical, you are disturbed by it because is true. Also, none of us will ever claim that any type of homosexuality, especially what LGBT promotes, is good.

>>20505523
Yes, the feds literally recruit mass shooters from here. Christchurch was a shitpost.

>>20505361
>what was the Kristallnacht
Historylet please.....

>elaborates a congruent political system
>traditionalist inspiration
>revolutionary action
>to hell with capitalist exploitation
>to hell with Jewish credit and bank system
>yes, he names the Jews
>individuals must be held accountable for their actions
>agriculture, farming, family, society, God
If he had been German, French or English he would have been internationally known and adored as the genius he was

>>20504929
How would you reconcile clerical fascism if it were up to you? What are the main problems?
>Hegelian idealist
Hegel was a Lutheran. How does Hegelian idealism make itself incompatible with Christianity?

I never understood how succession worked in fascism especially a movement so dependent on one man, his thoughts, and his ability to lead. It seems almost impossible for it go smoothly after his death.

I don't understand why Fascists are against homosexuality? They are not sexual conservatives -- they supported shit like prostitution, polygamy, abortion etc. And they liked modelling their society off ancient Greece and Rome. And they liked Nietzsche and Frederick the Great. So I don't get it.

>>20507512
There are two Frederick the Greats. The better one was not a homosexual.

>>20507590
You don't mean his father?

>>20497962

Pure 1930s-style nationalist fascism doesn't really exist anymore, as it has has been hybridised with Evolian Traditionalism. If you want to understand modern Fascism and National Socialism as they have existed since the early 2010s then you should read Alexander Slavros' works. He didn't create Traditionalist Fascism, but he's by far the biggest English language populariser of it, despite being an unemployed Uzbek autist who lived with his parents in Moscow.

I'd specifically recommend A Squire's Trial, Next Leap and Zero Tolerance. For background it's good to have a knowledge of Evola's major political works (Revolt Against the Modern World, Men Among the Ruins, Fascism Viewed From the Right & Notes on the Third Reich), and Hitler's Mein Kampf. James Mason's Siege also enjoyed a brief but stratospheric vogue in Fascist circles, but it isn't really an ideological or theoretical work.

In short, there's a big difference between academic works on Fascism and what modern fascists actually believe.

>>20507606
The Barbarossa Hohenstaufen

>>20507653
Modern fascists bear little resemblance to the intellectual nonconformists of the 1930s

>>20507682

Indeed, that was the whole point of my post. What is erroneously called Fascism today is a combination of militant Evolian Traditionalism and White Nationalism. In terms of structure and mentality it is closer to small but extremely fanatical and religious-minded Legionary movement of Codreanu than the NSDAP or Fascist Party.

>>20507705
Sorry yeah. Redpill me on Slavros

people need to start pulling their heads out of their assess and organizing nationalist oriented labour unions. conservatism and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race

>>20507946
also I'm curious as to how your average leftists would feel about cooperating on some lever to stop the exploitation of white working class communities by weaponized immigration, commodification of culture, normalization of degeneracy etc. on top of the usual functions fulfilled by regular labour orgs

Fascism in the 21st century is a massive cope.

>>20507999
how come?

>>20507811

Alexander Slavros was the pseudonym of a Russian-Uzbek who used to run a now defunct but extremely influential online Fascist forum called IronMarch. He also published a number of collections of essays and fiction outlining a worldview that combined Evolian Traditionalism with Anglo White Nationalism (Pierce, Rockwell, Mason, etc), which he simply called Fascism.

What makes him more influential than other internet autistes is that there was a contingent of young fascists in the US, UK and Australia who were inspired by his ideas and used IronMarch to organised propaganda campaigns and IRL activism groups. These groups themselves became highly influential in the far-rights of their respective countries, and ensured that Evolian Traditionalism and Fascism became inextricably linked.

For example, in Australia the IronMarch-inspired group Antipodean Resistance socialised a whole generation of nationalist activists into Traditionalist Fascism. That group splintered very rapidly, but the activists entered other groups, and pulled them into the direction of Traditionalist Fascism too. The end result is hardcore ex-military street activists like Tom Sewell discussing ideas popularised by a Central Asian NEET who started out drawing uniforms for imaginary Russian-fascist militia on DeviantArt.

>>20505572
shut up faggot. monarchy and pope were right to oust you and the fucking communists.

each and every one of you will be killed

>nazis were le gays

>what is the rohm purge

>>20497965
fpbp
>>20498188
>>20498201
>>20499070
good too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcS_sjbJNDI

>>20501893
Yes, elaborate on how he's wrong.

>>20508151
Well trumps record on policy shows virtually no similarities with with fascist socioeconomic policy. overall trump is just another liberal whos time in politics was defined by tearing down workplace and environmental regulations and other such things, as well as fighting against the installment of or further dismantling public access to things like healthcare and other social programs, and he showed no signs of organizing any sort of corporatist structure. he was virtually the complete opposite of fascism

>>20508178
also he gleefully utilized weaponized labour outsourcing

>>20506293
What does Kristallnacht have to do with homosexuality? Other than the catalyst being a homosexual love affair turned violent. Enlighten me.

>>20508134
They didn't get all of them. Hitler himself was a pedo.

>>20497962 >>20497965 >>20497971 >>20498110 >>20498118 >>20498144 >>20498168 >>20498188 >>20498201 >>20498226 >>20498241 >>20498256 >>20498269 >>20498320 >>20498369 >>20498644 >>20498668 >>20498737 >>20498978 >>20498984 >>20498995 >>20499001 >>20499005 >>20499019 >>20499026 >>20499040 >>20499052 >>20499054 >>20499064 >>20499070 >>20499081 >>20499091 >>20499144 >>20499198 >>20499289 >>20499306 >>20499307 >>20499309 >>20499333 >>20499340 >>20499395 >>20499489 >>20499630 >>20499723 >>20499733 >>20499737 >>20499768 >>20499783 >>20499796 >>20499804 >>20499812 >>20499826 >>20499838 >>20499860 >>20499871 >>20500267 >>20500275 >>20500581 >>20500935 >>20501462 >>20501645 >>20501652 >>20501730 >>20501745 >>20501751 >>20501779 >>20501788 >>20501878 >>20501893 >>20502248 >>20502349 >>20502535 >>20502539 >>20502540 >>20502548 >>20502556 >>20502603 >>20502627 >>20502629 >>20502681 >>20503204 >>20503459 >>20503739 >>20503757 >>20503765 >>20504330 >>20504355 >>20504378 >>20504412 >>20504462 >>20504598 >>20504693 >>20504929 >>20504950 >>20505041 >>20505076 >>20505110 >>20505170 >>20505204 >>20505227 >>20505234 >>20505361 >>20505383 >>20505395 >>20505409 >>20505423 >>20505437 >>20505440 >>20505445 >>20505453 >>20505475 >>20505484 >>20505497 >>20505501 >>20505508 >>20505512 >>20505518 >>20505523 >>20505527 >>20505539 >>20505572 >>20505585 >>20505657 >>20505665 >>20505707 >>20505722 >>20505792 >>20506153 >>20506293 >>20506319 >>20507490 >>20507501 >>20507512 >>20507590 >>20507606 >>20507653 >>20507658 >>20507682 >>20507705 >>20507811 >>20507946 >>20507984 >>20507999 >>20508016 >>20508091 >>20508131 >>20508134 >>20508140 >>20508151 >>20508178 >>20508184 >>20508227 >>20508247
>trashism

>>20508178
>Well trumps record on policy shows virtually no similarities with with fascist socioeconomic policy
Francisco Franco and Augusto Pinochet are also called 'fascists' by the left, but in their economic policies they were liberals.

>>20508297
I dont know if you've noticed but they call everyone fascists. everything that isn't a strictly leftist ideology is considered fascist or a pillar of fascism to most of them

>>20508319
exactly

>>20500581
so falangism?

this board has really fallen off. meme threads and idiotic fascism posts explode but no real discussion occurs. what happened in the past few years here?

>>20508452
zoomers?

>>20508452
I imagine its the same reason generals fall apart. you have a relatively small base of active users who have all discussed the classics and more well known books to death, and when people branch out into more niche topics of discussion, there's no momentum because, you know, youre talking about more niche stuff that few people will be able to engage in. in the end all thats left is shitposting and more consistently controversial topics that will always draw a crowd. personally i just make posts about good books i come across knowing full well the thread will get maybe 2 replies from people who have not read the book before the thread 404s, in the hope that lurkers will be inspired and pick the book up and maybe there will be an opportunity for fresh discussion down the road

>>20507512
is just boomers and /pol/tards, real fascists are gay (like me)

>>20508134
Hitler had no problem with Röhm until the SA became problematic, the purge had nothing to do with him being gay. As a matter of fact, how many of you /pol/tards would let a gay man lead your natsoc troops? None, yet Hitler did.

>>20508247
equating crossdressing with transness is actually a pretty recent innovation in anti-trans rhetoric
you could be anti-trans and think nothing of crossdressing

>>20508668
trannies will not be accepted in the homofascist ethnostate

>>20508547
who says? he wasn't revealed as being gay until well after he had amassed power in the Nazi party, and he only lasted 3 years until being purged

>>20497962

HISTORY AND ECONOMY:

Ian Kershaw
* Hitler: Hubris 1889-1936
* Hitler: Nemesis 1936-1945

William Shirer
* The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich

Adam Tooze
* Wages of Destruction: The Making and Breaking of the Nazi Economy

Oswald Spengler:
* Decline of the West

POST-WAR PERSPECTIVES:

Hannah Arendt:
* Origins of Totalitarianism
* Eichmann in Jerusalem

Parenti:
* Blackshirts and Reds

PRIMARY SOURCES:

Adolf Hitler and Mussolini:
* Mein Kampf
* Doctrine of Fascism

Evola:
* Revolt against the modern world

Oswald Mosley:
* Fascism: 100 Questions asked and answered


Trostky
* Fascism: What it is and how to fight it


FICTION:

Antonio Scurati:
* M Son of The Century

>>20508297
That makes sense if you understand what liberals mean by fascism. Fascism is just any movement that rejects bourgeois morality and values. Anti-fascism was invented by Stalinists under the guise of popular frontism to protect liberal democracy - who they share economic interests with.

>>20508705
he was part of gay non-nazi circles of his time, kys chud

>>20497962
Unironically read "Covid 19: The Great Reset" by Klaus Schwab to get a grasp on what we are heading towards as a society. The Great Reset is not a conspiracy theory. Schwab talks about stakeholder capitalism and how governments and private multinationals must work closely together for the good of humanity and the planet. It's essentially the merger of state and corporate power which is fascism as defined by Mussolini. You will own nothing and you will be happy. You will have a unique QR code. You will present you digital vaccine passport upon request. You will spend most of your life in the metaverse. Such a system is basically technocratic neo-feudalism but many Western political leaders are his "students" and are completely for it. People are sleepwalking into a dystopia.

>>20508784
Ok Klaus that's enough shilling your book here. Life as a billionaire must be boring so you come here to shit the board up with your inane philosophy, am I correct or not?

>>20498188
>>20508140
Mega cringe

>>20508140
Retarded suggestions, to be frank

>>20504355
Obvious fed, or schizo retard. Maybe both

Why stick so much with modernity anon? I get the want to possibly learn about it philosophically, but ideology honestly is the most retarded thing to be invented by philosophers and usually really shitty philosophers

>>20510684
I hate Hegel so much, maybe I'll read him and not hate him, but I find nothing to like in him or appealing from what I've learned so far from college lectures and such

>>20505512
>jews recognizing the best nazi commando is probably a good person to hire
>somehow means fascists and zionists work together
the mental retardation
>>20505657
>he was only 17 guys, practically a pre-pubescent child!

>>20508131
>capitalist
>catholic
cringe

>>20507512
>they supported shit like prostitution, polygamy, abortion etc
citation needed

>>20510665
last cope of the dimwit with no argument, accuse them of being a schizo or fed after making 0 contribution to the thread

>>20507512
nice bait

>>20510931
You type like you have autism, I don't care about contribution to the thread, you have no charisma so how do you expect to rally supporters?

>>20511915
>no argument
>you are fed
>you are schizo
>"you are an autist"
>unironically says i have no charisma so can't expect to rally supporters right after that
dimwit self awareness: 0

>>20512028
Don't you see how you keep proving my point?

what's the difference between fascism and Nazism

>>20512680
Complicated question both theoretically and historically. Historically speaking Fascism was a development of Italian socialism and national syndicalism (see Gregor and Sternhell for good descriptions), while National Socialism was grounded in the complex and overlapping currents of völkisch thought (see George Mosse for a good description). National Socialism was also very ideologically eclectic and politically/institutionally "polycratic" (literally "many-powered," a term referring to Hitler's reliance on overlapping and often competing notables who were granted magisteria ad hoc).

The Italian Fascist government also had a somewhat polycratic structure as the Grand Council had more visible authority and at least nominally the authority to depose Mussolini, whereas in Germany the Führerprinzip was undoubtedly efficacious and Hitler was the supreme authority (although he had rivals and people who would jump at an opportunity to see him ousted, particularly old aristocratic military men who wanted a "saner" authoritarian military regime in Germany, see for example the abortive Jung/Papen plan).

Theoretically it's even more thorny because you have two camps of theorists: fascists themselves and non-fascist typologists of fascism. On both sides you have people who say the NSDAP was basically just a particularly brutal authoritarian state, nothing unique, while Italian Fascism was socially/economically/politically distinct. You also have, on both sides, people who say fascism is more of a spectrum, and the underlying impulses that generated both the NSDAP and Italian Fascism were fundamentally similar. The fascist who says this says it because he wants to justify fascism wherever it arises, and whatever its local particularities. The liberal critic or typologist of fascism says it because he reduces all fascism to some common phenomenon, like "mythopoeic authoritarianism," or "palingenetic ultranationalism," and sees both the NSDAP's and the Italian Fascist's claims to be a genuine social reformer as little more than propaganda or self-delusion.

If you want to know what really made them distinctive, I recommend looking into the three authors I mentioned, Sternhell/Gregor for Italy and Mosse (The German Ideology) for the NSDAP. Whatever you end up deciding, you will at least understand the distinct "character" of fascism in both countries.

>>20512736
What do you think about the historians who just see the whole spectrum of right-wing phenomena in the 20th century (from something as harmless as boilerplate liberal conservatives saying mean things about gay people and immigrants to something like the nazis and fascists) as a result of liberalism not working as it should, as liberalism misfiring? Or the sociological/psychological explanations about WW1 vets and men with nothing to lose.

>>20505383
mussolini sent gay people to their own island and was friends with marinetti (who was likely at least bisexual) and had a man in his party, guido keller who had sexual relations with males rather openly (for the time)

>>20497962
I would start with the works of Karl Marx, specifically the Eighteenth Brumaire of Louise Bonaparte as that is where the mode and method of Marx really comes out. You can find selected works here:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/sw/index.htm
And after that I would search for bibliographies and more works until you're more comfortable with finding your own stuff to read.

It was claimed by A. James Gregor, who was a follower of the works of Renzo de Felice that Marx was the most influential thinker to the Young Mussolini. However in Margherita Sarfatti's journals during Mussolini's time in the before his time in the PSI it was the Utopian Socialists such as Blanqui and Fourier who had greater influence on him.

According to Mussolini himself it was Sorel, philosopher of syndicalism and 'myth' who had the most profound influence on him. He was supported syndicalism very early on and read many if not all of Sorel's works. Two books, which are a collection of his essays can be found in English. Reflections on Violence and Illusions of Progress.

Gentile:

>Fascism as a consequence of its Marxian and Sorelian patrimony . . . conjoined with the influence of contemporary Italian idealism, through which Fascist thought attained maturity, conceives philosophy as praxis.

>>20499019
>Wrong, Fascism is a dialectical philosophy.
You are confusing Fascism with Gentile's Actualism, I am not too well versed on the latter's reform of the Hegelian dialectic but there is this 1912 essay on the subject that I've been meaning to read. Gentile critizes philosophy or 'intellectualism' as he calls it in a similar way that Marx does.
>“(...) intellectualism divocers thought from action, science from life, the brain from the heart, and theory from practice. It is the posture of the talker and the skeptic, of the person who entrenches himself behind the maxim that it is one thing to say something and another thing to do it; it is the utopian who is the fabricator of systems that will never face concrete reality; it is the talk of the poet, the scientist, the philosopher, who confine themselves to fantasy and to speculation and are ill-disposed to look around themselves and see the earth on which they tread and on which are to be found those fundamental human interests that feed their very fantasy and intelligence.
Gentile, in his own words called Fascism the philosophy of 'praxis'— and makes distinction between 'pensato, pensate' which can be best translated as thought and thinking.

I am only familiar with the practical application of Fascism and the theoretical implications of Gentile precedes me, however I do know that in 'Fascism' governing 'pragmatically' and 'unideologically' was the material reality of Fascism as noted by both observers and followers, as well as Historians such as Renzo de Felice.

>>20497962
Anything by A. James Gregor

>>20513104
Yes. Fascism is a modernist ideology with roots in the french revolution.

>>20508668
It's otherwise, identifying cross dressing with transsexuals is an innovation from the liberals.
All what I saw from that book is German men mocking women
It's just comedy, there was nothing inherently sexual

>>20512085
no, I wouldn't agree with a smug leftist cretin who has no argument and mentions "charisma" on an anonymous image board as if it's a videogame

>>20512753
Not who you're responding to but that whole mode of thought is just a successor to Whig historiography. They hold the teleological belief that all of human history is progressing towards some liberal utopian state. Any deviation from this has to be either the result of liberalism itself doing something wrong, or something wrong with the people who don't support liberalism. These sorts of people in my experience tend to view communism more as a "heresy", ie they're well-meaning but they just have to get with the program.

>>20497962
The Authoritarian Personality.

Surprised this classic hasn't been mentioned yet.

>>20516884
>Everyone who doesn't like me is a fascist (gay): the book

>>20513104

Reflections on Violence is a very insightful book, despite being weighed down by references to long dead fin de sicle French parliamentarians. Sorel's concept of the myth as being a narrative which encourages action, and of the stifling decadence of a liberal system which integrates and coopts revolutionary movements, still ring true today. His anaylsis of why the revolution that Marx predicted failed to occur in the West is entirely correct - that capitalists backed down from the brutally exploitative phase of early capitalism, and bought off the working class with better wages and conditions, in order to maintain the stability of the liberal-capitalist system.

>>20497962
Christ, this thread is cancer. Anyways, Schmitt is only fascist thinker worth taking seriously. Picrel chart has been quite helpful.

>>20498668
I love Pound, but he is entirely incoherent outside his poetical works, sadly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HovJoMVtt0

>>20499306
gigabased

>>20508668
I personally think cross-dressing is a degenerate activity.

>>20510832
>somehow means fascists and zionists work together

He's not the only one.
https://therealnews.com/israel-is-arming-ukraines-blatantly-neo-nazi-militia-the-azov-battalion

The Authoritarian Personality.

>>20497965
>The impetus of The Authoritarian Personality was the Holocaust, the attempted genocidal extinction of European Jews by Adolf Hitler's National Socialist party. Adorno had been a member of the "Frankfurt School", a group of philosophers and Marxist theorists who fled Germany when Hitler shut down their Institute for Social Research. Adorno et al. were thus motivated by a desire[citation needed] to identify and measure factors that were believed to contribute to antisemitic and fascist traits. The book was part of a "Studies in Prejudice" series sponsored by the American Jewish Committee's Department of Scientific Research.[7][8]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Authoritarian_Personality

>>20516978
I have six of those books, just picked up Constitutional Theory and Legality And Legitimacy. Already own Concept Of The Political, Theory Of The Partisan, Land And Sea and Dictatorship

>>20516819
>These sorts of people in my experience tend to view communism more as a "heresy", ie they're well-meaning but they just have to get with the program.

I remember an anon's post about this phenomenon, specifically in the context of american discourse :

>I think that the way leftist politics is framed within American discourse is as the naïve idealistic little brother of liberalism. Infantilism is the essential component. Communism, Socialism, Anarchism, "killed millions" but is "good in theory". The basic concept being that Liberalism and Socialism/"Leftism" share an overlapping sentiment about equality, but Liberalism is the measured adult approach that takes stock of reality as is and refrains from rampant idealism that risks tipping over in to tyranny. The fact that liberals and leftists tend to share the same socio-economic class and geographic locations helps facilitate this phenomenon. This is why Leftists that engaged in organized bombing campaigns during the days of the civil rights movement get truncated jail sentences and end up consulting for respected NGOs when they get out.

>The far right is in America on the other hand seen as essentially a foreign object lodged in the fabric of the nation. Something alien and malignant and inherently incompatible with the founding precepts of civil society. It is essentially barbaric. Which fits nicely with the fact that those drawn to are mostly coming from rural, semi-rural, and post-industrial towns backgrounds in contrast with the shared cosmopolitanism of American Liberalism and Leftism. It is almost like a Urban/Rural tension exists prior to any particular ideological articulation.

>The right is the bogeyman that keeps the left dependent on the liberals. You might be an Anarcho-Communist, or a Marxist-Leninist revolutionary, but if you don't vote for this business-as-usual Democrat candidate then hordes of uneducated country bumpkins are going to destroy your favourite bodega!

>>20503757
this

>>20516978
>Anyways, Schmitt is only fascist thinker worth taking seriously.
Because like Mussolini, he was influenced by Max Stirner

>>20518895
stirner had less influence on musso than even marx.

>>20503757
why read people who can't even differentiate between fascism and natsoc?

stupid fucking 'intellectuals' should all eat bullets.

>>20518999
midwit take

>>20519141
Suck my cock

>>20497965
>Yeah, bro. People who have a healthy relationship with their parents are authoritarians. What a HEALTHY person should do is rebel against their parents, commit crimes, and do drugs. Becuase... YOU DON'T WANNA BE A FASCIST, DO YOU!!???!?!?!
Adorno was a kike, and no one has even read his joke of a book. Not even (you).

>>20519307
>What a HEALTHY person should do is rebel against their parents, commit crimes, and do drugs.
Except plenty of Fascists did this including snorting coke out of hooker's asses and robbing merchant vessels in fiume.
Rohm was fucking teenage boys in the ass and went around beating up Jews.

>>20519332
>>20518261
>>20516884
>>20513065
>>20508701
>>20508547
>>20508452

>This tactic is called alienation and is common on the left. They attempt to drive a wedge between two things by highlighting a singular or rare instance of percieved contention then applying it to the whole

>>20519344
Rockwell also had homos in his party and recruited from former drug addict beatniks and conservatives in his time did everything in their power to distance themselves from him.

Why the fuck you would want to be 'normal' is beyond me.

>>20519378
yes, fascism and national socialism aren't 'normal', only reactionarism is

>>20519378
>Why the fuck you would want to be 'normal' is beyond me

You appear to be a broken, injured human being with a warped view influenced by your damaged past. For those of us who were raised without trauma, a family and home based on blood and soil is the highest ideal and one worth striving for. We have tried every other alternative for generations. They have all failed.

>>20519596
George Lincoln Rockwell wasn't normal and most people thought he was insane, he was fucking institutionalized. Whatever point you think you're making posting his photos, you're really not.

>>20519596
>a family and home based on blood and soil is the highest ideal and one worth striving for.
>posts photos of a man disowned by his entire family
You really need to take you head out of your ass son.

>>20519619
>most people thought he was insane, he was fucking institutionalized.

I think you are lying. Please share where you read this.

I now expect many more short replies to my comments that make wild claims but furnish no proof in order to create the false impression that this is well known.

>>20519625
Why would any of that invalidate what he said?

>>20519378
>Why the fuck you would want to be 'normal' is beyond me.
Meaningful individuality takes place against a backdrop of shared life. What you're saying is like asking why anyone should be "constrained" to speak the same language. It's not something you're "constrained" to do. It's human nature to cast about for context and tools for self-understanding while growing up, so babies soak up their language naturally, and it's in that language that they'll most likely think and express themselves, even when they rebel against it (which will then develop the language internally and make it even richer for the next generation).

The same is true of culture. Culture is a language and humans acquire it just as unconsciously as language. It sinks down into them and fuses with them in a miraculous way that both gives structure to life and enables (and even invites) reciprocal, dialectical shaping of the structures.

Modern liberals have an impoverished anthropology. They see humans as fundamentally self-sufficient, atomistic "individuals," usually pleasure-seeking nihilistic animals, who can then choose "rationally" to engage in culture as a kind of second skin. But culture like languages fuses with your thought. That's how the human soul works, it both transcends and descends into the material of life. Marx's critique of Stirner's naive and childish "rational" egoism are correct on this point, the fantasy of an un-cultured "individual" selectively engaging with culture prior to absorbing it meaningless, for the obvious reason that his selective criteria are themselves conditioned by language and culture he has absorbed. Fascism doesn't deny the transcendent status of the soul or the individual, it just doesn't make him into an empty abstraction, an animal hedonist who picks and chooses bits of surrounding culture to pin to himself like fashions.

The liberal view of culture is only possible for coastal elites who have been raised in gentrified neighborhoods in soulless modern cities they feel nothing for and don't feel any obligation of service to, while they take two or three vacations a year to go "sample" some other culture's foods and fashions. But how do you think the distinctness of other cultures became distinct enough to be worth travelling for and sampling in the first place? It certainly wasn't through everybody living in a liberal megacity they feel no obligation to, that is just a staging depot for their "adventures," as they treat life like a buffet.

>>20519625
>my family are treacherous retards
>I should be one too
>Therefore I am not a treacherous retard
Yes very insightful thanks.

>>20519660
T.S. Eliot continued

>>20519650
I'm not arguing against GLR I'm arguing against you making a stinker about being a well adjustest member of society while idealizing a man who quite clearly was not.
>>20519660
I don't give a fuck. I do what I what I want and if you get in my way you get a bullet in the head. Best not get in my way. ;)

>>20519662
>TEH SANCTITY OF TEH FAMILYYYY
>OHHHH NO THE TRAITORS DON'T WANT TO PARTICIPATE IN MY RETARD RALLIES
By the way, glr would probably knock your teeth in for saying that about his family. He was cool with them fucking off because he knew most people cannot become an activist like him. You idiot.

>>20519670
>I'm arguing against you making a stinker about being a well adjustest member of society while idealizing a man who quite clearly was not.

I speaks much of your headspace that i idealize somebody i post a picture of. There are few people i would even consider idealizing, GLR or any political leader are not those. The father who works to provide, the mother who provides warmth and care to her children. These are worthwhile, the son who admires and eventually eclipses his father.

As i said earlier, you strike me as a broken man. I suspect you have posted several times here under the guise of different anons.

>>20519670
>I don't give a fuck. I do what I what I want and if you get in my way you get a bullet in the head. Best not get in my way. ;)
The point of your post is that, if you keep mindlessly pursuing what you want without any philosophical reflection, you will destroy what you want. It's a self-defeating drive. And if you're the kind of person who wants to crash the ship with no survivors, and you're willing to commit violence to achieve your goals, then don't be surprise when other people decide to return the favor to preserve what they find valuable.

>>20519660
>Fascism doesn't deny the transcendent status of the soul or the individual, it just doesn't make him into an empty abstraction
Now that's a blatant lie. Both liberalism and fascism dwell on Judeochristian anthropology and metaphysics which strip the man off his peculiarities until he becomes an empty vessel for whatever substitutes God in these ideologies, be it law or ethnic identity. Even views expressed in your post match exactly the same pattern of subject-object relations that they're supposedly opposed to, just with the tables turned (i.e. perceiving culture as a subject and man as an object and not vice versa).

>>20519670
>I do what I what I want and if you get in my way you get a bullet in the head

No, you do what you can to survive another sad day alone. You appear to have no close relationships and may depend on material goods and online interactions as a means to fill your abundance of time.

Your murky brown fingertips tap keys to type values and beliefs you don't really hold. While those you once knew move on in life you move backwards.

>>20519699
>>20519699
>>20519699
>I speaks much of your headspace that i idealize somebody i post a picture of.
You keep posting GLR photos and when I criticized you for doing so you defended him but when I said I was criticizing you and not GLR you do a 360 and say:
>i'M nOt iDeALiZiNg HiM
Good, don't. You are a coward and GLR, the OG white advocate and a man out of his time is worth far more to me than you are.
>The father who works to provide
Is nothing but a slave if he chooses to have children in this day an age and the only service he does is bring more money pigs into the slave society. It's not an accomplishment. Any retard can provide money for his offspring. In fact it's the bare minimum a man can do. It takes a real man to bring children into a society HE HIMSELF is responsible for creating. Go have kids, and support them. Bravo. Good fucking job for doing something any mouth breathing retard is capable. Some award you deserve for bringing in another retard destined for slavery!
>As i said earlier, you strike me as a broken man
And you are a weakling who thinks being able to fuck and feed someone is a sort of virtue.
>I suspect you have posted several times here under the guise of different anons.
What the fuck does this even mean? For what reason will I have to do that? This is only your psychological projection onto me.
>>20519723
You are the pathetic weakling who thinks reflection is not an act of will. Maybe it isn't, for you—which is why you are jumping to the conclusion that doing what I want means not being able to stop and reflect, which if you are not a weakling is an act of will.
>and you're willing to commit violence to achieve your goals
This is crashing the ship with no survivors? Violence is a tool to achieve concrete external goals you moronic coward.
>don't be surprise when other people decide to return the favor to preserve what they find valuable.
Everyone bends to the strong. There are no exceptions to this.

Now shut the fuck up and stop wasting my time. With your meaningless drivel.

>>20519749
LOL!

>>20519742
Fascism isn't totalitarian collectivism, it's the discovery of how the individual's Dasein is nested within the collective Dasein. Dasein, collective and individual, is always attitudinal (always oriented toward its becoming, destiny, problems and tasks) and always temporally situated (always flowing from a "given" past into a future of possibilities, or, from a "space of experience" into a "horizon of expectation," Erfahrungsraum/Erwartungshorizont). The task of fascism is the orientation of the organic Dasein toward its own past (self-understanding) and thus its possible future, NOT the totalitarian imposition of an abstraction that deforms Dasein to fit it.

All this is just phenomenological description of how the being of Dasein (individual and collective) comes into being. You're free to have metaphysical commitments beyond this. In fact in some metaphysical fascists the relationship can be inverted: in a situation where no authentic Dasein is possible, by orienting himself toward transcendent metaphysics the individual can create "axes of orientation," which other people can then use as beacons and rallying points for the formation of an authentic culture.

Obviously there will always be vulgar fascists who see fascism as "the right economic system" or an axiom supposedly valid for all times and all peoples like "the collective/the race is always right," but all movements have people who don't understand the inner nature of the movement itself. Marxism is mostly made up of vulgar Marxists. A relatively smaller proportion of fascists are vulgar biological essentialists, e.g.

>>20519810
you are the vulgar fascist for explaining fascism through Heidegger, who was not involved with fascism.

>>20519833
Okay, but just in case anyone is reading who isn't interested in your autistic hair-splitting but is interested in Heidegger, I can highly recommend Charles Bambach's book, Heidegger's Roots. There's also a much shorter and easier book called Heidegger's Volk which is okay.

Greg Johnson also writes really good articles on Heidegger.
https://counter-currents.com/2014/12/making-sense-of-heidegger/

Heidegger definitely seems to have been an autist, maybe bordering on a sociopath based on how he treated Jaspers and Husserl and others. But the philosophy is good.

>>20519852
it's not so much about autistic hair splitting but moreso that the people who are attached to different movements and different component elements of each movement are not going to get along in a room together.

Christian natsoc vs racialist collectivism natsoc vs heideggerian/schmitt natsoc vs revolutionary/SA natsoc
or
conservative/trad fascist vs futurist/progressive fascist vs gentilean/marxist fascist

all different, and your mileage will vary with all these people. the fascists had a civil war between themselves and the natsocs killed each other and then tried to kill hitler.

>>20519833
read black notebooks

>>20519779

>>20519918
what's worth reading there?
>>20519928
you are a retard.

>>20498168
Filtered

>>20519898
That's true in any movement. Trotskyists and Leninists always argue like retards and alienate people by revealing they're only there in the first place to form little cliques and have arguments. Real life doesn't work that way. Ezra Pound's book Jefferson and/or Mussolini freely admits that "fascism" can't be dried, tinned, and exported to America, which is why America needs to look to its own traditions of yeoman autarky and virtue ethics (Jefferson). The title could also have had Lenin's name in it since Pound frequently praises Lenin in the exact same connection, as someone who, whatever he believed, was capable of galvanizing an entire nation and creating (to use a term Heidegger would use) a "Volk" out of it.
>The first act of the fascio was to save Italy from people too stupid to govern, I mean the Italian communists, the Lenin-less communists. The second act was to free it from parliamentarians, possibly worse, though probably no more dishonest than various other gangs of parliamentarians, but at any rate from groups too politically immoral to govern.
>The rest is political “machinery,” bureaucracy, flummydiddle. Jefferson, Mussolini, Lenin, all hated or hate it. Lenin wanted to get rid of it: “All this is political machinery, want to get rid of it,” as Stef reported Lenin’s opinion in 1918.

>How does the Jeffersonian answer the fascist in a.d. 1933, 157 of American independence, 144 of the republic, XI of the era fascista?
>This is not to say I “advocate” fascism in and for America, or that I think fascism is possible in America without Mussolini
>I think the American system de jure is probably quite good enough, if there were only 500 men with guts and the sense to USE it, or even with the capacity for answering letters, or printing a paper.
>And ANY means are the right means which will remagnetize the will and the knowledge.

>>20517306
I actually find his essays far more approachable than his poetry. The Cantos are often brilliant but just as often impenetrable.

>>20504355
>>20498668
Hitlerism =/= Fascism
Jews were overrepresented in the PNF compared with the Italian population

>>20519985
the reason people argue over this kind of stuff is because there is no 'movement', no 'leader' to essentially call the shots and put the breaks and mark the dividing line between friend and enemy. without that there can be no 'war', or conflict.

fascism as it existed in italy is possible anywhere where there is the 'right kind of people' and the right kind of people for fascism are extremely rare especially in today's day in age. fascism was formed in the trenches of WW1- trenchnocracy as mussolini called it. you need a class of men who are soldiers to whom death is not anathema. you need leaders.

with a leader, an order of rank, a myth, and a readiness for violence— the state suddenly becomes in your grasp and it can be molded and changed in accordance to the will. whether that alone is fascism or not is up for you to decide. the 'admirers' of fascism have still yet to agree on whether fascism is socialism or not. what is certain is for me, is that bourgeoisie society is my enemy.

>>20497962
>As Francis noted, the managerial business corporation is “probably the best understood of these three kinds of mass organization.” Early capitalist enterprises of the sort Adam Smith wrote about were generally small enough to be managed by their owners, who might be individuals, families or partnerships. But over the course of the 19th century, new industrial techniques came to demand heavier capital investment than such enterprises could conveniently summon. In the steel industry, for example, the introduction of blast furnaces meant that the small enterprise employing ten or a dozen workmen could not compete. Similar processes were at work in businesses such as mining, shipping, banking, and perhaps most importantly, the new railroad industry. To provide the capital for such vast undertakings, businesses increasingly turned to the sale of stock.

The modern, publicly-traded company is owned by widely dispersed stockholders who may have little interest in how the company is run so long as their stocks grow in value or pay dividends. The day-to-day operation of such firms are the responsibility of managers, hired by the owners. This new class of managers includes the technical specialists with expertise in the complex equipment and processes characteristic of modern industrial production. Neither the decision makers nor the technical experts need own a single share of stock. The distinguishing feature of the modern corporation is thus the separation of ownership from control.

>>20519956
His commentary on contemporary political events. They're pretty fascist.

>>20520067
>They're pretty fascist.
but what does that even mean?
for me fascism is overthrowing the bourgeoise order and creating a society of fighter-producers. it can even be called *communism* in the Marxist sense, but corporativism and the organization of society into syndicates would be more accurate of a description.
>Anyone who speaks of communism in Italy today is a corporatist impatient about the necessary delays in the development of an idea that is the temperate correction of the communist utopia and the most logical and therefore truer statement than what one can expect from communism.
—Gentile, 'Speech to the Italians' Rome, June 24th, 1943

https://youtu.be/3FnhLbbl7jY

>>20520110
>but what does that even mean?
>for me fascism is overthrowing the bourgeoise order and creating a society of fighter-producers.
I think fascism is better to be defined as a form of governance under which the state penetrates every corner of one's life and the latter is obliged to be entirely devoted to the former. Just saying that fascism is a society of whoever isn't enough since the paradigmatic structure by which society operates is missed in such definition.

>>20520210
>under which the state penetrates
but anon YOU are the state. have you never read any fascist literature? clearly not.

>>20520210
That's just totalitarianism. You should read Paul Gottfried's Fascism: The Career of a Concept, it's all about the various failed attempts to define it.

Griffin has the best academic definition of fascism currently and it's neither totalitarianism nor mere reaction.

>>20520218
>but anon YOU are the state
Well duh, since every aspect of me that is not the state gets neglected. It's kinda like Eidos/Psyche relationship in platonist tradition where the body gets omitted on the basis of its imperfection.
>>20520219
>That's just totalitarianism
Essentially, yeah. But it's difficult to give a more distinct definition which would cover fascism as a thought and not just a period of Italian history. So it's either that or we have to completely re-classify "right-wing" totalitarian governments without using umbrella terms to be able to approach each of them individually since the concept of the state was also different for many of them. Not like it's a bad thing, but I don't know if anyone has done that.
>You should read Paul Gottfried's Fascism: The Career of a Concept
Ok

>>20520219
>Griffin has the best academic definition of fascism
palingenetic ultranationalism?
quite awful. even that world ultranationalism is so awful and stupid. ultranationalism as opposed to what? super-duper-nationalism? *yawn*
this especially contradicts gentile's conception of nationalism, as an idealistic creation of the mind in constant motion—and griffin being a liberal in the enlightenment sense doesn't recognize the 'nation' as a creation of the mind but only identifies it as a static collection of atomic individuals.

mussolini's fascists didn't even carry the national flag UNTIL AFTER the 1920 milan congress where they stopped appealing to the socialists. until then, they carried the black flag with skull and dagger—and by the time the italian civil war came around they were screaming "DEATH TO THE KING" and "LONG LIVE THE REPUBLIC" like 18th century french liberals.

even 'palengenisis' is a stretch. mussolini's fascists didn't LITERALLY think they're the rebirth or rome. mussolini was always speaking of the 'social revolution' and 'the complete renovation of italy'. but apparently adopting some of the phrase mongering of D'Annunzio's theatrics is ideology now?

note how in my posts i'm always referring to MUSSOLINI's fascists. because there were so many different fascist squads lead by different people. Bianchi lead his own fascists, Farinacci lead his own fascists, Balbo lead his own fascists. the rural fascists threatened to OVERTHROW mussolini after he signed the Pact of Pacification to end the violence between fascists and socialists.

Griffin is such a joke. Even worse than Dennis Mack Smith.

>>20520252
but you're using the state as some sort of synonymous material entity as the government when it isn't. fascism is 'totalitarian' but only in theory. it's totalitarian up to the limits of the control of the thinking ego. Mussolini despite the fanfare was still prime minister in what was effectively a diarchy with him and the king. remember, Mussolini was deposed by VOTE.

>>20519619
>George Lincoln Rockwell wasn't normal and most people thought he was insane, he was fucking institutionalized.
he was a glowie and was more sane than you

>>20520547
>he was a glowie
you have no evidence
https://vault.fbi.gov/American%20Nazi%20Party%20/American%20Nazi%20Party%20Part%201%20of%202

>>20520563
>According to Hate: George Lincoln Rockwell and the American Nazi Party, the ANP was thoroughly compromised through the FBI’s notorious COINTELPRO operation; by the time of his murder in 1967, Rockwell was widely believed to be a “patsy” for the FBI or some other intelligence agency.

>One objective of the anti-ANP COINTELPRO operation was to create a rift between Rockwell’s Nazi outfit and the United Klans of America. By the late 1970s, the Klan was thoroughly honeycombed with FBI assets. In fact the Bureau boasted that it had enough Klansmen on its payroll in North Carolina to elect that state’s Grand Dragon: At one point, 7 of the 8 members of a Charlotte Klan chapter reportedly were FBI assets informing on the klavern’s sole non-federal employee.

>Edward Dawson, an informant/provocateur on the payroll of the Greensboro police department and under the supervision of the FBI, helped orchestrate a November 3, 1979 street clash between white supremacists and Communists that left five people dead. The “White Power” contingent included elements of both the Klan and the American Nazi Party, whose FBI-engineered rift had apparently healed sufficiently to permit joint action.

>>20520583
the american state apparatus is more fascistic than actual fascists

>>20520583
only one of those paragraphs have anything to do with rockwell being a collaborator for the FBI and I literally just linked a declassified FBI report on rockwell and his party.

rockwell wasn't full of shit. he was a kind person and he even opposed u.s intervention in the vietnam war.

https://youtu.be/PrDdfCpTJ18?t=478

>>20520583
>The FBI got Nazis and Communists to kill themselves
And I'm suppose to believe they aren't based?

>>20520280
I don't mean to be rude but you don't seem to have read Griffin. Did you read a summary or something?

Either way I was mainly talking about his more recent writings on fascism as a form of modernism, which is a development of his influential '90s thesis (the one you're referencing). But his '90s thesis still stands up as a very interesting attempt to think through what was at the time a much sloppier and confused field, and to get a decent theory of generic fascism from it. His newer stuff is much more expansive but you can see how he had his main ideas in nuce already in the '90s.

I don't mean to be rude but you have a very combative and shrill style that I think will turn more people away than it attracts to these ideas. These movements already attract enough shrill, constantly angry and thin-skinned people. I think it's important to set a good example and show that it's possible to be "radical" and not be a neurotic freak who is obviously just using it as a vehicle to vent his angry, or need to control others, or be respected as an arbiter of something, etc.

>>20520604
it's like a 4chan prank LOL

>>20520611
>I don't mean to be rude but you don't seem to have read Griffin
No I haven't and I don't plan to because I have all the primary source documents at my fingertips and I don't need the likes of 'political scientists' telling me how to interpret social movements which are by their nature spiritual and artistic and no person who calls themselves a 'scientist' would be able to grasp it. It is the equivalent of asking a student in acoustics to solve a problem in music.
>I was mainly talking about his more recent writings on fascism as a form of modernism
This quite literally doesn't mean anything. Modernism wasn't some monolithic social movement it was only a cultural period the same way the Enlightenment was. It makes no sense of to put all of Modernism under an umbrella considering that the different social movements which spawned in the modernist era spent their time fighting one another. Even 'anti-modernist' thinkers were plagued by the spirit of their times and could not escape the predominant cultural zeitgeist. The 'Traditionalist' Evola painted DADA. [who Griffin also erroneously associates with Fascism whereas Evola was never involved with any Fascist Party and only met Mussolini when WW2 started]
> But his '90s thesis still stands up as a very interesting attempt to think through what was at the time a much sloppier and confused field.
I explained to you why it was completely false—how is 'ultranationalism' any different from 'nationalism'? I already told you the Nationalists were very skeptical of Mussolini, former Marxist and leader of the Socialist Party of Italy. I suggest you at least read the Wikipedia article on the 'Pact of Pacification'. Mussolini only began flirting with Nationalism during the Italian invasion of Libya while he was reading Sorel because he thought the myth of the Nation can unite the masses, and only became sure of the necessity of creating National myth after the failure of the mass strikes which he lead during the 'Settimana Rossa'.

>>20520611
>>20520802
For Griffin, 'Ultra-Nationalism' is apparently an extreme devotion to your own nation; but what 'is' the nation? Ask 10 different Fascists and you will get 10 different answers. According to Gentile the Fascist Nation was as such:
>Nationalism, in fact, founds the State on the concept of nation, the nation being an entity which transcends the will and the life of the individual because it is conceived as objectively existing apart from the consciousness of individuals, existing even if the individual does nothing to bring it into being. For the nationalist, the nation exists not by virtue of the citizen's will, but as datum, a fact, of nature.
>For Fascism, on the contrary, the State is a wholly spiritual creation. It is a national State, because, from the Fascist point of view, the nation itself is a creation of the mind and is not a material presupposition, is not a datum of nature. The nation, says the Fascist, is never really made; neither, therefore, can the State attain an absolute form, since it is merely the nation in the latter's concrete, political manifestation. For the Fascist, the State is always in fieri. It is in our hands, wholly; whence our very serious responsibility towards it.

I reject any and all attempts at defining a generic Fascism because they inevitably fall flat on themselves because there was no 'generic' fascism. There was not even a 'generic fascism' WITHIN the different Fascist movements i.e a Left, Center, and Right within not only Fascism but the Falange in Spain and the German NSDAP. All completely different between and WITHIN one another. Remember the 1934 Montreux conference and how much of a failure that was? That is all the evidence I need that Fascism can be characterized as a singular entity with elements that can be listed. Italian Fascism was not the same in 1917 as it was in 1925, or in 1936, or in 1945. Between the earliest and latest years Mussolini returned to advocating Socialism. Not to mention those Revolutionary Syndicalists, such as Ottavio Dinale who were most critical of the PNF and Mussolini as Prime Minister yet supporter of the PFR and RSI— where Mussolini was executed with former Communist Party founder Niccolo Bombacci.

I fail to see any contribution that Griffin has made when he fails so much as to get basic facts and details correct. The way I see it his work is a hackjob and his PhD means nothing. I don't know how you can say he clarified anything when Dennis Mack Smith came before him and did a far better job and did not make such amateur mistakes as trying to define a 'generic' Fascism without even detailing the different tendencies within the one Italian Fascist Movement itself and somehow confusing Evola into it, who was not a Nationalist and left Italy sometime after the Matteotti crisis.

>>20520611
>>20520802
>>20520805
>I don't mean to be rude but you have a very combative and shrill style that I think will turn more people away than it attracts to these ideas.
>I think it's important to set a good example and show that it's possible to be "radical" and not be a neurotic freak who is obviously just using it as a vehicle to vent his angry, or need to control others, or be respected as an arbiter of something, etc.
I have no intention in attracting people to Fascist 'ideology' nor am I arguing for people to 'follow' Fascism. I am only recounting the details of Italian Fascism as a political movement. Of course I am shrill and combative against hack job works by people who somehow weaseled their way into attaining a doctorate yet have contributed absolutely nothing to the realm of knowledge apart from repeating the same tired old polemics from 60 years ago.

>>20520805
>That is all the evidence I need that Fascism canNOT* be characterized as a singular entity with elements that can be listed.

>>20520802
That's OK, I am sure you can direct your own reading. I think the books are useful for people who are getting into the subject. When I recommend something like Griffin I mostly have that in mind.

I don't really want to reply to the rest of this post as it's you talking to a guy whose books you've never read based on fanciful constructions of what you assume his views must be based on reading the.. subtitle of the book. "Modernism" is a very polyvalent term. I don't think you can draw multiple paragraphs of bitter critique simply from someone's use of it. Terms of art can be poorly chosen and still disclose useful truths, too. I guess I'm trying to find a roundabout way of saying: I don't want to talk to you about your angry critiques of a book you haven't read.

>>20520807
That seems stupid to me. I am interested in attracting people to things I think are true by showing them the truth in a way that isn't irritating. Can I suggest the possibility that you are grandstanding because it's kind of fun to grandstand? It's fun to have a "position":
>Fucking scholars with their presumption to tell ME what 'generic' fascism is!
A little bit of this kind of confident stance-taking and posturing is okay, but when someone politely says "Uh, the book's a bit more subtle than that," it's more fun to have a real conversation.

>>20521006
>I don't think you can draw multiple paragraphs of bitter critique simply from someone's use of it.
I've only wrote three lines on the title of the book. The bulk of my post deals with his 'thesis' which you say has 'opened' new discourse and provided a 'decent theory' of 'generic fascism' whereas I have thoroughly refuted the idea that 'Palingenetic Ultranationalism' means anything at all or that we can quantify any sort of 'generic fascism' You've provided me no response to my refutation of his faulty thesis.
>Terms of art can be poorly chosen and still disclose useful truths, too
And what 'useful truth' has Griffin revealed in his book?
>I don't want to talk to you about your angry critiques of a book you haven't read.
I trusted that you as an intermediary would be able to provide some new nugget of information which would encourage me to pick up that book from an 'intellectual' whose works I've been intentionally avoiding— whom I've read an essay from and watched a discourse of which provided to me absolutely nothing substantial. You stated his 'newer stuff' is more expansive, expansive off what? His incorrect thesis? He is already wrong. I have no need to read expansions of an already incorrect formulation.
>I am interested in attracting people to things I think are true by showing them the truth in a way that isn't irritating.
>Can I suggest the possibility that you are grandstanding because it's kind of fun to grandstand?
>It's fun to have a "position".
I don't have a position because it is 'fun' my position is that there is no 'generic fascism' and I have substantiated thoroughly why there is none and would continue to do so long as you ask the right questions. You are the one who read his book—why don't you explain how there is a 'generic fascism' in the first place or respond at all to my arguments against the concept of both 'palingenesis' and 'ultranationalism'—again you are the one who read his works and so far you have not given me a response to any of my criticisms.
>Fucking scholars with their presumption to tell ME what 'generic' fascism is!
There is no such thing as a 'generic fascism'. I am not the kind of individual who makes appeals to authority, but you seem the kind of person who would respond positively if I did. Renzo de Felice, premiere historian of Italian Fascism and mentioned before in this thread rejected the idea of characterizing a 'generic fascism'. As I have explained, all of these supposedly 'Fascist' movements are all completely different from one another, emerged under different circumstances, and had different ideology, and even opposing goals. Again, and now I am repeating myself for the third time—WITHIN the various 'Fascist' movements there were different tendencies and these factions would end up fighting one another. Do you not understand why I find the idea of 'generic fascism' to be dubious?
>Uh, the book's a bit more subtle than that
Then why don't you explain the book?

Why have so few Fascists read Mussolini? His collected works span 35 volumes.

>>20522041
Untranslated.

>>20522050
http://bibliotecafascista.blogspot.com/
Some stuff here is translated. His collected works are all on Z-Lib and you can google translate it to the best of your ability.

I would love to study Italian but I am currently learning another language and am short of funds to immerse myself traveling to Italy.

Mussolini was a rather talented writer, all I have to say. No wonder he was editor of the PSI.

>>20522068
How do I find it on Z-lib, what are they called

>>20522090
https://usa1lib.vip/s/mussolini%20opera%20omnia

>>20517522
You unironically hate European Culture if that's the case

>>20497965
>>20498188
>>20498201
>>20499070
>>20516884
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/anti-racist-action-confronting-fascism#toc3

>>20497965
>>20498188
>>20498201
>>20499070
>>20516884
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/anti-racist-action-confronting-fascism

>>20522815
>hey you're not allowed to have opinions! no racism! no ouchies!
these are the anarchists? mankho would have mowed them down with pleasure.

>>20522858
i'm sorry, who exactly is this supposed to fool?

>>20522201
Very much true.

>>20522866
you think it's bad to be racist? lmao? ever live around niggers? more violence, more war, more beauty until America drives every wretched nigger out of here.

This is class war, idiot!

>>20497962
read Miguel Serrano

>>20505423
>poorly written strawman argument

difference and repetition and bergsonism both by deleuze

>>20523185
Deleuze is a little too complex for someone looking for an intro to fascism imo

>>20523108
national socialism isn't a coherent as to constitute any modern political program.
It was however, perfect for it's time and quite good- which is why Germans all supported Hitler.

>>20522815

Antifa is really a self-defeating enterprise. The more leftist cultural norms get pushed, the fewer street-fighting young men the left is going to have. I don't think that the union guys they used to get are going to be any more keen about Drag Queen Story hour and the progressive stack than the Nationalists that they used to fight.

>>20523221
germany was coerced in the 30s, the Nazi power began to shut down all their opposition until there was only one political party operating

>>20523349
yes because nazi's goals were to remove soviet government. they were at war since the very beginning against the soviets. Hitler stupidly thought the two great bourgeoise imperial powers of the world would not oppose him. they did and soviets were a puppet the bankers in wallstreet.