/lit/ - Literature

>>20243004
bump

>>20243004
why was it jannied the lasf few rounds?

Is there a popular refutation of the Schofield Bible that anyone would recommend? I have begun annotating differences that are particularly egregious between translations but I'd be interested in having a supplementary and easily accessible religiously based historical (wow what a mouthful) reference for many of his changes...man I hope that makes sense.

>>20244186
jannie is probs an atheist

>>20244186
Because it belongs to >>>/his/

>>20244197
I've asked here before about an explanation for dispensationalism vs covenant theology and never got an answer. I know someone mentioned they felt Schofield had done significant damage to Christianity so maybe whoever it was will address your concern

>>20243004
>"grace"
Basically we aren't deserving but recieve salvation from God anyway because of his love

>>20244215
kek.

Started reading Matthew Henry's Commentary today. Don't know how long it will take me to finish it.

Moses got ripped off. He did all he did for soo many, and crafted a great relationship with God, and then God takes his life before he reaches the promise land.

I feel bad for this.

>>20244215
It doesn't. The Bible was voted the best book by /lit/ last year and this thread is for discussions on the book. It just triggers atheists for no reason when they could simply hide it.

>>20244377
As long as he went to heaven afterwards who cares about earthly rewards

>>20244377
I mean, heaven probably is way better than the promised land.

I don’t know why you guys larp and pretend to be Christian here, but then again, this is the only form of social interaction you’ll ever get.

>>20244415
Only the Catholics and Orthodox are larping.

>>20244415
>I don’t know why you guys larp and pretend to be Christian here
They want to feel good about themselves, not to mention special. No real Christian would ever come to 4chan.

>>20244215
>most sold book on the planet doesn't belong on /lit/

>>20244463
I got saved from a religion thread on 4chan

>>20244197
This is pretty good
https://youtu.be/DAzkstD8aJk

>>20244463
(You) sound like the ones criticizing Jesus for those He went to. This evil shithole is desperate for ambassadors of Christ.

>>20244692
BLESSED

>>20244361
How is it? I've been debating getting E Sword and reading it in conjunction with my Bible

>>20243004
Just bought a small prayer book to encourage myself to practice my faith in through praying in my daily life. So far i’ve felt much better.

>>20244722
>I've been debating getting E Sword
dude, it's free

>>20244690
Printed =/= sold, dumbass. Most bibles are given away free.

>>20244741
it's both, dumbass

>>20244730
I know but I have to fix my computer or get a new one which will require some investment.
I also have a couple other commentaries that while not perfect have been insightful

>>20244722
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/mhc/genesis/1.htm

>>20244463
Sounds about right.

>>20243004
I don’t know if my fellowship with the Lord is out fear or love. I think it’s a mixture of both, I don’t want to do good works just out of fear of earthy or even divine punishment — but at the same time I shouldn’t worry because Christ died on the cross for humanities sake. I believe this stems from my unwavering anxiety of other people, Man himself: because they don’t share Christs infinite mercy, you mess up once and you’re guilty by the time they set eyes on you.

Shouldn’t fear of punishment be a valid fear because the sin clogs your connection with Christ? I wouldn’t call it a servant kind of relationship— I don’t want to have servant-Master dynamic with God but as a loving and merciful relationship.

>>20244751
Thanks anon

>>20244408

There is no heaven for a Jew.

>>20243004
Grace is the favour of the Holy Spirit of the Lord God.

>>20243004
What do western Catholics think of Tolstoy? Is his philosophy even known to them? I'm indifferent to religion, and Tolstoy is what makes the most sense to me by far when regarding Christian worldview.

>>20244762
You are confused because you follow the Protestant doctrines which are false.

Peter said in no uncertain terms we must "live as God’s slaves." Paul said to "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

>>20244843
He's not in the Bible and neither are Catholics. This is a Bible thread.

>>20244843
My impression of Tolstoy is the he came to God at the end of his life out of fear rather than any true love. His Christianity has always seemed to me as particularly performative. What can be said other than he stands in the great shadow of Dostoevsky, as do all those of lesser faith.

>>20243004
>What does "grace" refer to in the Bible?
Grace is actively and continually working in the lives of God’s people. Paul credited the success of his ministry not to his own substantial labors but to “the grace of God that was with me” (1 Corinthians 15:10). Grace is the ongoing, benevolent act of God working in us, without which we can do nothing (John 15:5). Grace is greater than our sin (Romans 5:20), more abundant than we expect (1 Timothy 1:14), and too wonderful for words (2 Corinthians 9:15). As the recipients of God’s grace, Christians are to be gracious to others. Grace is given to us to serve others and to exercise our spiritual gifts for the building up of the church.

>>20244227
>I've asked here before about an explanation for dispensationalism vs covenant theology

>What are the differences between dispensationalism and covenantalism?
https://carm.org/about-theology/what-are-the-differences-between-dispensationalism-and-covenantalism

>Covenantal and Dispensational Theologies: Four Views on the Continuity of Scripture
https://b-ok.xyz/book/21140854/8ebaa5

>Dispensationalism and the History of Redemption: A Developing and Diverse Tradition
https://b-ok.xyz/book/16725246/0959a7

>Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth: A Critique of Dispensationalism
https://b-ok.xyz/book/16787251/8ea823

>>20244957
Who cares? It's frivolous legalism.

Have you done good works upon the poor today? If not, why worry about these dictionary definitions?

>>20244856
>neither are Catholics
>Now I say to you that you are Peter (which means ‘rock’), and upon this rock I will build my church, and all the powers of hell will not conquer it.

protestantbros…

>>20244423
Delusional protnig cope

>>20245035
Don’t respond to Prots in the way they respond to us, let them continue to expose themselves

>>20245035
It's true. Who would larp as a Protestant?

Which angel is the angel in Isaiah 37:36?

>>20243004
>What does "grace" refer to in the Bible?
A free gift from God.

>And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.
>And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him.
>And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
>Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
>Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
I was pondering the other day how amazing it was how all He had to do was say her name, and she recognized Him. It had also not occurred to me before that this happened despite her asking merely moments ago where He was buried, and personally witnessing His crucifixion. It makes me self-conscious of my own faith, or lack thereof, unfortunately.

How did Matthew know what the Magi had revealed in their dreams? How did they know what Pilate said to Jesus and how other private conversations went? How did they know what Jesus said on the cross and why are the accounts so different?

>>20245721
Gee I don't know it's not like God himself spoke to the Apostles ... Oh wait.

>>20244985
>and every priest after you, who is voted into office by a college of bastard or second-born children of Italian noblemen, is also the rock upon which I will build my church. And I'm not only building my church upon the rock that you are, but I am sustaining my church on a succession of rocks who inherit the rockness of the rock before them!
>oh and my father will barely heed your prayers, and I probably won't either, so just pray to my mother Mary, the perpetual virgin, the repurposed mother-goddess of pagan cults, and she will pass it on to me. She is a perpetual virgin, by the way, pay no mind to my mention of my brothers and sisters.
>oh and you can worship Saints and stuff too. Actually Saints are so saintly that if you buy their good deeds you can reduce the time you spend in purgatory
>what's purgatory, you ask? what, didn't I mention it at any point during my ministry? silly me! You should be able to hash it out with church tradition or whatever
Yeah I loved these parts of the bible

>>20245751
oh and I forgot when Jesus famously said this, too, to justify Catholic dogma:
>Now that you have my words, you can translate them into the language of my favourite bishopric, where my succession of church-sustaining Rocks rule my church, and then don't worry translating the gospels after this. It's all the better if the dumb masses don't know how to speak Latin anymore, just keep the gospels as a sort of secret incantation that only you can speak. Actually don't even let the dumb masses read the gospels. Just read it at them in a language they don't speak and that's good enough. And actually if anyone attempts to translate the bible into a language they can read, you need to burn them at the stake, because it was only acceptable for laity to read the gospels for like the first few hundred years after I died, and now they don't need to understand it. And actually you don't need to teach them how to read this secret language anymore either
I also loved reading these parts of the bible that justified Catholic dogma

>>20245751
Yes because Jesus never talked to the Saints in the Bible ... Oh wait. He spoke to Elijah and Moses on the mountain.
And it's not like prayers for the dead were mentioned in 2 Maccabees 12:43-44 causing the Protestant "reformer" Martin Luther to seethe so hard he had to remove that book from the Vulgate that had been established for 1500 years.
Surely these opinions are all motivated by strict theological reasoning rather than blind anti-Catholic hatred. Obviously Protestants attack all Churches equally based on their authoritative understanding of Christian doctrine. Why the number of times I've heard Protestants rage against the Orthodox interpretation of filioque is surely in the thousands... Oh wait.

>>20245751
>>20245774
Based and accuratepilled.

>>20245774
Yes and I remember that part of the Bible where Jesus famously said
> Don't form One Church. Form hundreds of individual Churches all interpreting the scriptures in your own way. Allow women priests, homosexuals, transgenders. The most important thing is that you believe the Five Solae of some angry man child and repeat "salvation is by faith alone" as loud as you can if anybody ever questions you.

>>20243004
why are you wasting your life reading this pile of shit?

>>20245820
What would you read instead?

I converted to Christianity whilst I was still seeing my atheist girlfriend and over the past couple of months she went from confused and “turned off” (her words) to interested and always asking me questions about the faith.
She’s very kind and understanding but I’d like to try and convert her, however, I don’t want to force it upon her because I accepted Christ through a lot of research and self deliberation.
Anyone else had experience with an atheist partner?
I want her to be saved, bros.

>>20245993
God alone saves, Protfaggot.

>>20245973
White Fragility

>>20244751
seems great.

>>20244762
God is your Father. that's the relationship.
What could you be afraid of?
God is our Father, and wants the best for us. He knows better, and knows we are weak. thay's why He disciplines us, that we may not keep in error, and learn to follow the path He set for us.

>>20244795
The parable of the rich man and Lazarus. Abraham is in heaven.
I know you're a troll, but it might've scandalized someone.

>>20246395
that said, don't take it lightly.
we're first and foremost servants of Christ.
God's will is more important, better, and is the guiding light of your life.

>>20244741
Someone has to pay for the printing...

>>20245612
imagine the joy Mary felt.
just the whole scene of the two angels sitting there, and Christ with her.

>>20245993
tough question.
how in-depth are her questions?
if you're a decent apologist, you could try to bring the topic up more. When it seems right, invite her to church.
try to get her to ask more and keep studying, really.

>>20246431
>how in-depth are her questions?
They’re entry tier I would say, all the questions I asked and found sufficient answers to at the start of my journey.
>Why does God let suffering exist?
>Why do bad things happen?
>Why don’t Christian like gays?
>Abortion is good, how are you against it?
>Who gets to go to heaven?
>Science has given us so many answers, why religion?
I think these are all good questions for her to ask and It seemed to me that I gave her good answers.
I’m the only practicing Christian she knows so I’m happy to test out my new found apologetics and show her the truth. Speaking of; can any of you recommend any literature that defends the faith well? I’ve been thinking about getting the book ‘Four Proofs For the existence of God’
God bless.

>>20245721
The Holy Spirit told them

>>20246626
Catechism of the Catholic Church will answer most any question of hers. And its nearly broken up into numbered paragraphs across the entire book so it's easy reference.

it's free online, too, at vatian dot va

>>20245993
There is a person I go to church with who is a newly converted Christian. Prior he was an atheist, his wife still is one. I know he struggles because she's shocked by the change and he wants to see her saved. Per him she's noticed positive changes in him. So be sure to provoke her with love (Hebrews 10:24)
Pray for the right course of action and for her heart to be softened and open to the Lord
And while you aren't married, Paul writes about married couples where 1 is married and the other not.
>But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?
1 Corinthians 7:12-13, 16

Hope it helps anon. I understand wanting to see a loved one saved. My wife (then gf) getting saved was a blessing. Just remember ultimatley they have to come to God themselves, but God can handle it for he will knock at their hearts door and call them

>>20246626
Mere Christianity is an amazing one.

>>20246626
Also, you've passed the answers you found down to her well? how did she respond to the answers?

>>20246644
based post, except for the 'getting saved' part. we as humans cant know for certain God's decision in our particular case. whether we are saved or not is a question that should be answered every day with charity and faith and hope.

That said you dont need to talk someone's ear off convincing them to convert. Anon is very sharp to notice that the transformation in ones self through Christ is in itself a powerful type of Christian witness.

>>20244957
Thanks anon

>>20245785
Protestantbros, we lost…

>>20245751
>>20245774
Kek.

>>20244985
You wouldn't find the current catholic commentary of matthew 16:18 in majority of early church fathers probably because of the change of gender in this verse, Christ says "σὺ εἶ Πέτρος (masculine)" but then shifts gender "καὶ ἐπὶ ταύτῃ (demonstrative pronoun, feminine) τῇ πέτρᾳ (rock, feminine) οἰκοδομήσω μου τὴν ἐκκλησίαν"
The incongruency between "Peter" and "this rock" makes it odd to read "this rock" as having its antecedent in "Peter". Had Christ wanted to show that Peter was the rock he would properly have said "επι τούτῳ πετρῳ"
Even if you read it as Peter, not Jesus, being the rock, it doesn't really say anything about the papacy, you need eisegisis to understand it like that. Same as if I tried to take some kind of tripapacy from Galatians 2:9.

>>20246673
>we as humans cant know for certain
I disagree. God tells us if we are or not and thus we can know, but not due to our own actions. He has to tell us
>I waited patiently for the LORD; And he inclined unto me, and heard my cry. He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, And set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings. And he hath put a new song in my mouth, even praise unto our God: Many shall see it, and fear, And shall trust in the LORD.
Psalm 40:1-3

I understand what you mean by works. Works are evidence of faith, and if you are faithful there should be a call to charity and such.

But it should not be misconstrued that just because you have done something good you are thus saved. Salvation comes from God not from ourselves.

>>20245751
You should be ashamed of this post.

And believe it or not you actually got one part correct. The Catholic Church did come first, it existed from the moment Jesus entrusted his flock to Peter. No part of the new testament existed until decades later at the very earliest with Mark. These are the things you know when you aren't an ignorant prot.

>>20246626
Unironically Rowan Williams “Tokens of Trust” is an extremely unpretentious introduction to the faith that addresses all of these questions with both philosophical and emotional rigor.

A large portion of the book is talking about who the Christian God is, and what it even means to have faith in him.

>>20245785
>Yes because Jesus never talked to the Saints in the Bible ... Oh wait
Because He transfigured and in person mingled with two prophets that's now therefore a precedent to pray [to] them for help? Lacks clear grounding -much like the rest of popery. The Protestant concern is, as the Jews give great examples to, the slippery slope towards idolatry. It's an inclination in human nature that we need keep a watchful eye on.
>2 Maccabees
You act like that's cut and dried from the get-go, but Jerome, the person who created that Vulgate had his concerns, as did some other church fathers. Wasn't a prominent debate in the early church but certainly wasn't settled - Not until the 1500s.
>"THe CHurCh HAs ALwAYs TAUGht"
Very Romish thing to do it seems; to act like a matter was completely settled from the beginning in their favour when it evidently wasn't.

>>20246711
Where is the idea of an office with succession established by our Lord in holy writ?
It doesn't; it was established later as the church sought to dispel early heresy.

>Joshua said unto Achan, My son, give, I pray thee, glory to the Lord God of Israel, and make confession unto him; and tell me now what thou hast done; hide it not from me.
>And Achan answered Joshua, and said, Indeed I have sinned against the Lord God of Israel, and thus and thus have I done: When I saw among the spoils a goodly Babylonish garment, and two hundred shekels of silver, and a wedge of gold of fifty shekels weight, then I coveted them, and took them; and, behold, they are hid in the earth in the midst of my tent, and the silver under it.
>So Joshua sent messengers, and they ran unto the tent; and, behold, it was hid in his tent, and the silver under it. And they took them out of the midst of the tent, and brought them unto Joshua, and unto all the children of Israel, and laid them out before the Lord.
>And Joshua, and all Israel with him, took Achan the son of Zerah, and the silver, and the garment, and the wedge of gold, and his sons, and his daughters, and his oxen, and his asses, and his sheep, and his tent, and all that he had: and they brought them unto the valley of Achor.
> And Joshua said, Why hast thou troubled us? the Lord shall trouble thee this day. And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones.
a few verses earlier God said
>he that is taken with the accursed thing shall be burnt with fire, he and all that he hath: because he hath transgressed the covenant of the Lord
so when Joshua took Achan "and his sons, and his daughters" as well as his things, are the sons and daughters burnt alive too then? also lol doesn't seem confessing does much good

>>20246711
You should be ashamed of this post. Simping for the Satanic Babylonian pagan counterfeit "Church™" and its fabricated lies.

>>20244724
so happy for you brother ! God is great

The protestant retarded view is so fucking funny
>Well Jesus said that hell would not conquer his church but it actually did for 1500 years after his death until some random failed german priest was blessed by Jesus to discover real Christianity again, causing millions of deaths with the following religion wars.

I wish you guys were as enthusiastic about the Bible, y'know the topic of the thread, than you are about your sectarian squabbles.

>>20247791
It’s just ego-driven nonsense and denomination wars and that’s all it will ever be. These threads are worthless. Just go to church and find Christians there.

>>20247819
I'm atheist, I thought this was a thread about a book.

>>20247774
The ekklesia was freed from the thorny suffocations of Hades by the reformation. His church was never and will never be a state sanctioned/adjacent institution. The ekklesia is made up only of true believers/followers of Christ regardless of their institutional affiliations or lack there of, not one member less nor more.

>>20247791
>>20247819
What are you? Fucking protestants without arguments? It’s obvious that the ‘reformation’ fits a Bible thread. The same german catholic priest who influenced other protestants literally took out some books from the Bible and said they weren’t legit. If this is a Bible thread the most important thing to discuss is what the Bible is and what books should a ‘real’ Bible be made of.

>>20247845
>His church was never and will never be a state sanctioned/adjacent institution.
Oh God, this is what I love about Protestantism. An eternal continually retardation of Christianity until dogmas like this and denominations like mormonism and jehova witness are made. A protestant who has this opinion basically view all other European Protestants which their state churchs as wrong too lmao.

>>20247861
>hasn't read and understood the Holy Bible
Slow down and pay much closer attention, it's all in there, clear as day, you're just breezing right over it due to pride and ignorances.

>>20247847
> What are you? Fucking protestants without arguments?
I’m Orthodox, and still find the shitflinging in these threads to be banal

>>20247831
You'd think, but just like our faith in reality, people disregard any scholarly pursuits or good faith discussion in favor of red vs blue team strawman massacres.
I'm sure calling faceless Catholic poster an idolatrous faggot or anonymous Protestant thinker a degenerate antichrist for the thousandth time will swing the discussion around any day now.

In the spirit of the OP, I think grace is the almost superhuman confidence and skill that appears in people when they are attuned to their faith and devoted to a purpose. It does not need to be loud or boisterous though, a wife dutifully helping her husband after an exhausting day with the serenity only a woman can utilize is definitely an aspect of grace, at least to me.

>>20248134
>grace is the almost superhuman confidence and skill that appears in people when they are attuned to their faith and devoted to a purpose. It does not need to be loud or boisterous though, a wife dutifully helping her husband after an exhausting day with the serenity only a woman can utilize is definitely an aspect of grace, at least to me.
Yeah we can ourselves have grace (ie: unconditional love) toward one another. Wife and I have been attending a parenting/marriage class our church offers for Sunday school. It's been a blessing for us both as they have reiterated time and again with your spouse you have to be selfless even though you may not want to be all the time and it has helped us both when we've been upset with the other.

kino commentary on Joshua
>The Canaanites were a people infinitely superior in culture to the Hebrews. They were murdered without compassion. Jericho was utterly destroyed. With the exception of the girl who had befriended them, and her particular family, the Hebrews slaughtered every living creature. They even stabbed to death the asses at their cribs, the sheep in their yards. Nothing that breathed was spared. The life of the town within its walls of stones and baked bricks, with its rose-plants and cool palm trees, and pools of “naughty” water, was ruthlessly brought to an end. And the continuation of the invasion matched its beginning. With clubs and rude primitive weapons of stone and bronze they hacked their way from city to city. None was spared. Kings were hanged and horses were houghed. They passed through the country like a pestilence. No longer now did they eat manna, but the stored grain of their enemies
>The entrance of the Hebrews into the land of Canaan was an almost perfect example of the kind of consorted racial ferocity that has made, and still makes, the story of the human race more blood-stained and merciless than that of any other brute beast running in packs.
btw. what is "Naughty" water? I googled but can only find a footnote in the Geneva Bible,
>Mark 5:13: Strabo in the sixteenth book saith that in Gadaris there is a standing pool of very naughty water, which if beasts taste of, they shed their hair, nails, or hooves and horns.

>>20248282
src

>>20248259
That's wonderful anon, I find myself struggling to teach my younger brother stuff about being a man that I take for granted, our father died when he was 16 so I have to take and convert what little I learned and both teach and learn their true value all at once.
It's tough because I know what's right but I don't know how to explain it at times, and I inherited my dads quick temper so for every outburst I just ask God to give my little bro a teacher he deserves and not me.
Feels like I can have grace even for my enemies but can't manage be a good brother at times to my best buddy, even when he was there for me when I got lost in non-faith for a bit.

>>20248134
Boohoo nigga cry more

>>20248282
>more cultural than the Hebrews
seems like shite. Canaanites were idolaters.

>>20248409
Infant sacrifice is akshually based

>>20248296
That's a hard situation anon and I am sorry for your and his loss
Hebrews 10:24-25 is one mentioned this past week that I think might help you as well
>And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
He's your brother. Not just in blood but in Christ as well. Lift him up

>>20244741
Where can I get a free Bible?

>>20248844
The Gideons
They typically come to college campuses and give out new testaments w/ psalms

>that feel when reading the Gospels

>>20248844
Any decent church.

>>20249580

Your thoughts?

>>20250315
a meme

>>20250338
Why? Between it and the NJPS Tanakh, I'd definitely pick Alter if you wanted one reference OT from a Jewish perspective because it's got a much more interesting and literarily useful translation that actually does justice to the Hebrew in English and better notes.

Os it true that the Septuagint is the earliest complete Hebrew Bible we know and that Jews themselves changed their Bible after Christianity started because some parts of it were alluding to Jesus?

>>20250566
>Os it true that the Septuagint is the earliest complete Hebrew Bible we know
Yes. Some of the DSS might be older, but the LXX is the oldest complete Hebrew Bible we have.
>and that Jews themselves changed their Bible after Christianity started because some parts of it were alluding to Jesus
People say this, and I recall quotes from someone (perhaps Ignatius or Augustine or someone) making these claims at the time existing, but unfortunately the details escape me at the moment.

I'm definitely fairly entry level to Christianity, but after an initial serious read of the bible and a delve into early Church history, I came away greatly admiring Jesus, but very turned off by Paul. A lot of the things he taught don't seem consistent with Jesus' message, and the fact that he never met him in the flesh makes me sceptical. I know Nietzsche also wasn't the biggest fan of Paul and thought he had corrupted Christ's message. Anyone else have similar views?

>>20250632
Thoughts on the characters of the OT?

>>20250655
I mean that's a broad question, there are quite a lot of them. Many of the earlier OT stories I viewed more as allegory, and so wasn't really assessing character as much. Even if there was a man called Abraham who was told by God to sacrifice his son, the chances of an accurate representation of character surviving in our bibles is little to none and so I see little utility in assessing this side of them.

>>20250664
I'm reading Joshua rn, it's good. None of the characters have personality really, it's more what they get up to and encounter that fascinates me.

>>20250632
you didn't get Paul, i'd guess.
if's very easy to misunderstand, and the epistles are a tough read.
Always have this in mind: the word of God doesn't contradict itself.
If something sounds off, make sense of it with other verses and passages. Some commentaries and whatnot can help with that.
Could i have an example of Pauline "inconsistency"? i've heard of it before, but not in-depth.

And Nietzsche is just angry and calling Paul bad names, while criticizing Christianity for not fitting his made up worldview, basically.

>>20250597
good example here being Psalm 22:16
they tried to change the end of it

>>20250980
>the word of God doesn't contradict itself
There are many contradictions in the Bible.

>>20250980
I'd say my main concern is that Jesus claimed to have personally delivered the Gospel to the world, and yet here comes John professing to deliver more bits of it that Jesus never talked about (Deity of Christ, blood atonement, “grace”, demotion of the Law, abolition of the Sabbath, church hierarchy). It just seems sketchy that so much of the New Testament is based off a guy who never met the living Jesus. I am all for Jesus being divine - I am no sceptic on that account. I just am also aware that the bible was written by fallible human hands. Above all I just have a deep gut instinct that something is deeply off with how Paul muscles in and supercedes many of the original disciples who were much better placed to carry on Jesus' teachings.

>>20250989
none at all. last time i entertained one of you, i was shown a laughable grammatical "contradiction"
if you warp it, you can obviously point it wherever you want

>>20251019
John is merely explaining it. Also not demotion, but fulfillment of the Law; and not abolition, but purification of it (the pharisees had turned the Sabbath into something man-made, with severe punishment and whatnot, along with extending it to basically doing nothing)
Written by fallible human hands, yes, but hands inspired by God.
give me an example of Paul doing that, if you may.

>>20251044
>“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.” — James 1:13
>“And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham…” — Genesis 22:1

>>20251075
it's better translated as "proved"
So it's a test, not temptation.
As said, if you want to do that kind of analysis, atleast do it in the Hebrew, or check it beforehand.

>>20251093
No it isn’t, in the Septuagint James uses the same word used in genesis πειράζω. God tempted abraham to commit a sin and murder his son.

>>20251075
it's better translated as "proved"
So it's a test, not temptation.
As said, if you want to do that kind of analysis, atleast do it in the Hebrew, or check it beforehand.
the only issue there is the translation. same issue as the last "contradiction" i was shown.

>>20251119
rewrote a bit.
>>20251108
the LXX is a translation too. One was in Hebrew, the other is Greek.
go check each word against the other, in the original.

What about this

>Acts 1:18 With the payment he received for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out.
>Matthew 27:5 So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself.

How do I know when the literary connotation of "Israel, Jew, Gentile, etc" changes and refers to will-be Christians rather than the once chosen Hebrews and such?

I know the general philosophy of salvation being opened up towards all men, but am still confused on how to read things like
Lost sheep of Israel...
Salvation is of the Jew...
And so on, in fact I'd say I struggle quite a bit being able to tell when those shifts happen and how to track what's being said and to whom it applies

>>20251139
they don't contradict each other.

>>20251196
If Judas threw his money at the temple and left and then hanged himself, how could he have used the money to buy stuff and then fell, his body burst open and all his intestines fell out?

>>20251205
You’re assuming he used all of his money

>>20244843
Is his philosophy even known to them: "work out your own salvation"? Anthropotechniques.
legalism has always seemed to do nothing and neither is cope

This is a Bible thread
>for a Jew.

The Kekklesia: enthusiastic about the Bible: an enthusiasm that sanctifies the space of natural solidarity in Christ. Israel lost now found — a Gamer Christ. Christ's Christ: so happy for you brother !

>>20251240
But how do you explain someone hanging himself and then falling headlong, having his body bust open and all intestines spill out? With the countless hangings that happened in human history, is there any account of someone falling and having its body bust open and all intestines going out?

>>20250338
A good meme or a bad one?

>>20251255
Hakeldama is a place of sheer rock cliffs and trees growing out of dry rocky ground. It’s not surprising that someone could hang themselves and then have the rope break, causing the corpse to splatter on the ground. For all we know Judas’ corpse hung there for a while in the sun and got bloated before falling off a cliff.

>>20251255
hanged himself, his body decomposed, and then fell, bursting open.
Matthew saw it and told it, Luke saw the aftermath and described it.

>>20250632
>very turned off by Paul
Paul's epistles can be tough. I'm going through, taking it slow, highlighting and taking notes an such. Paul constantly references the old testament and when you connect things it's honestly pretty cool and makes me appreciate the epistles more. He was educated at a big Jewish religious school so he knew the scriptures and used that knowledge

>>20251290
And what about God saying thou shall not kill and then saying to kill a lot of people all over the Bible?

>>20251295
Epistles are extremely tough.
there's gigantic points in a single verse;
Romans 2:15 for example, it's proof of God.

>>20251304
Another translation issue.
it's "thou shalt not murder".
the people God orders exterminated don't really fit innocence.

>>20251304
‘Kill’ = KJV bad translation for what should be ‘murder’

>>20251319
>Thus says the Lord of hosts: … “Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.”
How are infants and childs not innocent?

>>20251314
Yeah. 1st Corinthians 1:23 lead me down a rabbit hole yesterday, running back to romans, then Matthew, and ultimatley to deuteronemy.
Christ was a huge stumbling block for the jews because the fact he was on a tree meant he was accursed ie: he bore our curse under the law as Paul says in galatians.

>>20251323
Also this also contradicts the temptation of sin that god supposedly never does. He tempts people into committing sins by murdering kids and babies.

>>20251323
Amalek, who tried to war with the Israelites?
the sons were already taught in the way of their fathers; remember what happened when Israel didn't obey and exterminate the idolatrous Canaanites?
they're not innocent, as they'll grow up resentful, to say the least.
>>20251331
not innocent, nor murder.

>>20251320
'kill' is murder, execution is put as 'put to death'

>>20251405
are you agreeing or trying to say otherwise?

>>20251331
Who are you to tell God what is a sin and what is not when he commanded it himself? The Amalekites had 400+ years to repent, and those children truly were saved from being brainwashed into abominable hell-bound pagan adults.

>>20250632
Paul is actually the greatest part of the Bible, but I didn’t understand this at first either. There is nothing inconsistent with what Paul wrote and with what Jesus taught. You also need to remember that Paul literally worked with and knew members of the Twelve who worked with Jesus when he was alive. Just read the Bible more.

>>20251433
>mindlessly following commands because the deity is... LE GOOD

>>20251019
> Jesus never talked about (Deity of Christ, blood atonement, “grace”, demotion of the Law, abolition of the Sabbath, church hierarchy)
All mentioned by Jesus multiple times and made very obvious by the allusions to Isaiah, Jonah, Daniel and the Psalms throughout the Gospels. The New Covenant is straight out of Jeremiah as well. Deity of Christ is extremely obvious for anyone who knows the allusions and the import of what Jesus says, even in Mark, not to mention John. When Jesus sits on a mountain and gives new commandments in his own name, this is a reference to Exodus where God comes down at Sinai and gives the law. The Messiah coming from Galilee is straight from Isaiah too, which talks of him having many names, one of them being ‘Mighty God’ and mentions that He will have an eternal kingdom. All of these are quoted and referenced in the Gospels.

>>20251455
Yes, God is paradigm of good. To be ‘good’ means to obey God

>>20251473
but it's not as relative as that sounds.
God is good, and cannot be otherwise.
your wording implies anything God does is good, without the explanation that He is good; that relativizes it to "God's will is good because He's God" which is right, but a bit improper, especially with how someone criticizing you is going to interpret it, very likely positing something along the lines of 'evil is good then'

>>20251597
You’re correct, that is an important thing to keep in mind with my post

>you're not sinning when you're killing a bunch of babies and kids in the name of god bro

At this point you retards are no better than terrorists. Thank God this religion is dying fast in the west.

>>20251836
While you aren't likely to find this sufficient, I thought I'd offer the best explanation I could regarding this very difficult piece of the Bible.
Firstly, understand that with all things in the Bible it is written under the overarching paradigm that is 'Christianity'. Meaning that the rules over there apply over here and so on.
To explain why that matters, children are repeatedly said to be preserved from sin until they come of age, and thusly children dying (and believe me I know how this sounds) before the age of awareness are guaranteed peace in Heaven.

>"Okay so how the F is killing the children okay, even if they get a free pass to Heaven?"

The answer there lies in the sins and corruption that pervaded the Amaleks, and indeed in many other old tribes at the time.
The godless (or Godless?) people at the era were specifically so filthy and evil that God routinely found cause to wipe them out in their entirety.
Sodom and Gomorrah, The Flood, Exodus, etc.

It is likely (and I'm not smart enough to know all the details, my apologies ahead of time) that the places destined for total destruction were incestuous, cannibalistic, Satanic pits of the absolute worst humanity could offer. SnG for example was destroyed only after the people were driven with unholy fervor to try and rape the Angels AFTER they had been blinded by said Angels AND offered women in their place.

Thus, a place like Amalek would have turned those children into degenerate sodomites without redemption, and by instead taking the nuclear option, God preserved what souls could be preserved before they defiled themselves.

I don't blame you for recoiling though, it means your mind still rejects perceived injustice, and that's a good thing Anon.

>>20251836
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-evIyrrjTTY

>>20243004
Okay I decided to actually read the bible
>God killed (almost) the entire human race because he hated his own creation
How can anyone claim God is good. I can only imagine the millions of lines of cope that was written trying to explain this

>>20252946
>give man free will
>man chooses to do evil over and over again, which only brings more bad things unto themselves, and keeps doing so anyway
>the few exceptions to that are saved
What's the issue?

>>20252969
to be more serious, God didn't see them stumble once and said so. you could atleast reason He tried to get them to repent and everything. As with every time something like that happened, God gave them a chance.

>>20252946
What I find funny is how God knew that adam and eve would disobey him even before he created them, but he still did it anyway and became mad and punished humans forever when they betrayed him.

>>20253010
you fool, if you looked into yourself you'd have realized by now that all that is evil is things that lowers you as a person and the world as a whole
Satan is not real and is nothing but the anti-thesis of Faith which is doubt

man is all imagination, and adam ( ultimately God ) thought it would be funny to imagine a world separated from him
now we're stuck here trying to reconnect with him
it took adam 925 years before he imagines the concept of death
the New Testament, specifically Christ, is the farthest concept of man reclaiming Godhood that humans achieved so far

>>20253010
disobedience results in bad outcomes, because God is good. it's literally saying "evil happened because they did evil, that's good's fault"
It's not punishment, it's the consequence of their actions.
And lastly, He had to. He is wholly good; as it says in Exodus, God could not come down among the Israelites, else His righteousness would consume them, due to their sin.
>still made them
shows the extent of His love, does it not?

>>20253052
What kind of lie did you try to fit Christianity into?
that's "spiritual" gibberish that you tried to put a Christian veneer on, and not the Gospel at all.
but you probably knew that.

i am not sure if this is the right thread for this question, but are there maybe some good (preferably academic) books which thematize christianity and homosexuality?
i am growing more and more interested in christian thought, especially the catholic side, but that topic is kinda burdening me

>>20253104
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 should be enough.
what do you mean thematize?

>>20253117
looked at different translations and some used „homosexual“ while others used „pedophile“

>what do you mean thematize?
i am not sure how to feel about my preference for the same sex and would like to read a book which focuses on christian perspectives on homosexuality
from what i‘ve seen the stances on the topic seem to be very different depending on the church

sorry if i may have phrased myself in a weird way, english is not my first language

>>20253235
the Greek is ἀρσενοκοῖται
arsen(man)koitai(bed)
a word which Paul coined, drawing from the Torah(Pentateuch; Lev 18 and 20:13); when you have those doubts, check the original.
It refers to homosexuality.

>>20253235
there still? I might be able to answer if you ask some objective questions, if you have any

>>20253380
can one be homosexual and also christian without suppressing romantic feelings one might have

>>20253445
No.
it's also not romance, but lust.
when did you start feeling so?

>>20243004
Damn, in true 4chan thread fashion, looks like people are arguing about literal gay shit again.

What's the best Catholic bible translation for new Catholics? Or study bible, for that matter. Preferably something that doesn't cost a billion dollars; the Word On Fire series looks interesting but 60 bones is way too much.

>>20253463
making fun of it won't help.

>mfw was gonna suggest Word On Fire
Didache study Bible maybe?

>>20253460
i see, thank you for answering
>when did you start feeling so?
i don‘t want to have that discussion since it seems to always go in circles

>>20253485
I was thinking Didache. It seems pretty comprehensive, especially for new cathecumens. Considering Ignatius Press has both OT and NT for like 35 bucks, that's way more manageable than 60 for just an NT i'm probably just going to mark up anyways.

>>20253514
well, ESL, so i can't really weigh in.
mark up is to mean what there?

>>20253521
No worries. By mark up, I mean underline, highlight, write in the margins, things of that nature. I've found that when I try and study a text, it helps me comprehend it better.

>>20253530
Oh, i thought mark up as in go for the pricier one.
there's some Bibles with massive margins for you to write on, might be worth a look.

I learned Greek but I'm trying to become fluent. What's the best way to increase your vocabulary? I've always done the flashcard thing but I'm wondering if there's something more efficient.

>>20253555
good question. koine or modern?

>>20244463
>real Christian
Is there some exam you have to pass to be a Christian? Inb4 baptizing

>>20253463
>>20253514
As someone who has the Word on Fire volumes, there's literally no reason not to just get the paperback version, as the insides are the same quality. Especially if you want to mark it up. If you use it, you're probably only going to read it once and then it'll become a fancy decoration on your bookcase, which is what the $60 leather ones will almost certainly become. At least for me, it served as my excuse to own a copy of the NRSV for comparisons, a translation I'd never shell out money for on its own, so that alone might mean I'll actually still continue to use them. The Didache is a fine option as an all-in-one. The Ignatius Catholic Study Bible is the best, but its OT is probably going to be delayed for another 3000 years (coming next year™ every year since 2012); and until then, you should just pirate the epub ICSBNT, then go for the hardcover edition(s) whenever it's actually done since the bonded leather sucks imo.

>>20253588
With how pathetic the average Christians actual knowledge of the Bible is, even opening one up in person and actually reading it might be all it takes to qualify nowadays.
I don't have much room to talk, I only started a few months ago but the second hand embarrassment I have from years of just parroting .jpgs I pilfered to epic pwn le heretics is suffocating.

>>20244892
Wish I knew how to use God's grace.

Is there any explanation in the Bible as to why God created cancer and why does he gives cancer to kids? Also, why do people pray if you can't change God's plans through prayers?

>>20250556
>no one in the world could possess a substantial understanding of the bible till 4 years ago

>>20253588
You need to go to church every Sunday, yes

>>20246705
Whom does God save? Are all non-Christians doomed? Are all Christian denominations saved?

>>20253815
No death before original sin. from that alone you can infer it came from sin.
you're arguing in bad faith also.
because you're praying according to God's will (or His "plan" as you try to simplify it).
before you go about God's will, Romans 12:2
to put simply, it's what God wants for you (and, as repetitive as it may be, the best for you)

>>20253842
Who are you quoting?

>>20253864
John 3:16
>For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Whomever believes in and accepts Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, and keeps His commandments and teaching (which is implied)

>>20253743
it's a sad thing, really. Atleast they have the correct belief.
be a change anon, get them reading.

>>20253883
>No death before original sin. from that alone you can infer it came from sin.
But the Adam and Eve story didn’t happen. Humans evolved from other mammals through millions of years and many mass extinction events which almost wiped out all of life on Earth multiple times. There was never two humans who then all of humanity came from. Knowing this I too question when at the evolution process the soul came into existence. Did Neanderthals have souls?

>you're arguing in bad faith also.
No I’m not. A human praying for God for something won’t change what God decided that would happen. I mean, you can’t pray for your kid’s cancer to be cured when God already decided that the kid will die by the cancer. There’s no point in praying.

>>20253787
let Him use you.
when you have to forgive, and be kind, remind yourself of God's forgiveness, and His love for you.

>>20253926
no point showing you the light if you keep covering your eyes.

>>20253926

Bros I was reading the Bible but something doesn't make sense.

>3And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
>11Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
>And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

I mean, the Bible is saying that God made light on the first day, then plants on the third day but only made stars on the fourth day? How is this possible? There was vegetation on Earth before things such as the stars who are the source of light of the universe? How did the plants were able to do photosynthesis without the light from the sun? According to science the stars existed before plants on Earth existed. Who is wrong?

>>20254024
That's a good point, how could the all powerful creator of reality sustain plant life for a single day without the sun?

>>20254075
But science says that the first stars originated 13 billion years ago, while the first plants on Earth originated only 500 million years ago. How can the Bible say that plants were created before the stars? Is science wrong?

>>20253842
>there's a better translation and compilation of Jewish commentary published in recent years which means there was never a previous translation and compilation of Jewish commentary in past years

>>20254024
going by young earth theory, i'm quite sure plants could last a day or two in the dark, going by your question.

going by other reasonings, God had already made light. He just put the rest of things in the sky later. plants could get energy normally.
science (used to mean the "scientific" aka atheist view of creation, not the broad meaning of knowledge) is wrong. funnily enough, full of holes. they found a fossil which still had collagen and tubulin in it (which obviously couldn't last millenia), and cannot prove evolution.
here's the evolution hole: there's microevolution and macroevolution.
microevolution can be seen; viruses adapting for resistance, birds changing beak type, and such.
the issue is macroevolution; the idea of species coming from one another; it is genetically impossible, and cannot be proven by fossil records (because it isn't true) either. the catch here is microevolution is used as proof that macroevolution happened, and that's not the case.

it might be said differently(and more clearly) in the Hebrew, if you could give it a look. stuff tends to get cloudy in translation.

>>20254088
yes, they're wrong. the contradictions and errors are just well hidden.
another example, they sell you the big bang as fact, but it doesn't fit with the laws of physics.

>>20254097
>God had already made light. He just put the rest of things in the sky later. plants could get energy normally.
How does light exists without stars? Why is science wrong saying that the stars were created billions of years before the plants instead of after as the Bible says?
>and cannot prove evolution
There is no such thing as scientific proof. Something scientific necessarily needs to be falsifiable by definition, And macroevolution has tons and tons of evidence, no serious scientist say it is impossible https://evolution.berkeley.edu/what-are-evograms/the-evolution-of-whales/

>>20253463
>speaks negatively of gay shit
>catholic
choose one
don't let your priest hear that talk or it will have a 80% chance of hurting their feelings

>>20254133
>likely, maybe, possibly
seems like a hypothesis, flimsy too.
and as i said, no full evolutionary lines, just a few fossils that they try to extrapolate into others.

because the Bible says otherwise. i'd rather trust that than men.
secondly, it's the word of said men against the word of God. there's nothing but theorizing on their part, you're just told it is fact instead.

>>20254133
>no true scientist
I could give you a gigantic list of Christian scientists who do say otherwise, and some who converted after studying deep enough.

>>20254163
>seems like a hypothesis, flimsy too.
You just showed a complete ignorance of what science even is, saying such things as scientific proof and now saying that science is making a hypothesis lol.

>it's the word of said men against the word of God
What is your evidence that the Bible is the word of God? Who wrote the Bible?

>>20254175
That’s why I wrote TRUE scientist. I can also give a list of many scientists saying that covid vaccines don’t work but they’re all a joke in the scientific community.

>>20254209
Good bait anon, a strong 7.8/10

Never read the Bible before. Am I wrong to just read the KJV cover to cover? I have no experience with religion.

>>20254304
Start with the 4 Gospels, then write down all the questions you have afterwards and ask your local Catholic or Orthodox priest about them before reading the rest of the NT followed by the OT.. Even if you don't believe any of it or agree more with Protestants in the end, it'll help contextualize and clarify the events of the Gospels and give you a basic rundown on what Christianity is all about & how it developed over the last 2000 years.

I've come to see more of the truth about myself and my place in the world recently. Enough to see how depraved I am, how easy it would be to give up my unclean habits, and how fine of a line I'm walking between God and Mammon. I know that I need to turn away from the attractions of the world, and I can tell that they do nothing for me other than rob me of my time and energy while promising pleasure and fulfillment that never come, but I just can't seem to significantly alter my behavior for a serious length of time. I have the willpower of a dust mite. I need to and want to change, but at the same time, doing these things feels good and enjoyable and I can't stop the urge to keep going.
Maybe Calvin was right about the whole predestination thing. At this rate I'm going to spend my whole life just a hair's breadth away from salvation but unable to take the last step across the line.
A lot of the time I feel almost resigned to the idea that I'm going to Hell and will deserve it completely.

>>20254351
i feel this so hard. idk how to reconcile my desire to follow God's path and be christlike with my desire to have a boyfriend, at least at times. and it's such a mental thing, it feels like predestination with me always going back and forth on these principles, and trying to bargain with myself, it scares me.

Presbyterians represent

>>20254376
I'm not sure if you've read (or more likely seen the film) "Silence" ny Shusaku Endo, but your dilemma reminds me of the character Kichijiro.

>>20254572
How so, anon?

>>20254572
How so, anon? Kichijiro was a repeat apostate who genuinely didn't believe in it.

>>20254604
I will try to keep this short but in my view Kichijiro represents the majority of people who spend their lives in a cycle of sin and repentance. He was absolutely a repeat apostate, but he always tried to repent despite his innate cowardice. Think how many Christians go through their lives like Kichijiro- with the desire to give up all of their depravities and vices, never fully realizing it. With "the willpower of dust mites". That is the similarity I saw.

In psalm 24, is it us being addressed as the doors and gates whose heads should lift up? It's so beautiful. Also, what does it mean that God founded the earth on the seas and floods?

>>20254673
>the desire to give up all of their depravities and vices, never fully realizing it
Damn, I really feel this.

>>20253104
>especially the catholic side
Catholic belief is that people can be gay but actual gay sex is to be avoided. The issue there is that there's also just as big an avoidance placed on nonmarital straight sex and masturbation even though Catholics tend to treat those as slap-on-the-wrist situations (in practice, not in dogma) but get really culture war-y over homosexuality.

If you want gay Catholic perspectives read Andrew Sullivan as probably the closest I can think of. His writing is generally more political/sociological than religious though.

>>20253445
If this really matters to you, get off 4chan.

Ask God. Just ask Him and trust he will answer.

>>20254304
Read in order: Matthew, Mark, Luke, Acts, John, Revelation, then as many of the Epistles as you can stomach. Then read the OT in order as best you can.

>>20253104
Christianity has nothing against homosexuality unless the particular sect inclines to theologians with Pharisaic traits. Jesus never once speaks against homosexuality, only fornication.

>>20255163
>Then read the OT in order as best you can.
Sprinkle the Psalms and maybe Proverbs in as you go. The Psalms are great, but reading 150 in a row is rough.

What does Christianity require aside from belief in Christ? The only hard and fast thing I can be certain of is the golden rule and maybe some extensions of it, as well as a prohibition on non-marital sex.

>>20255192
>What does Christianity require aside from belief in Christ?
Even Satan believed Jesus was who he said he was, so yes, just believing Jesus is the Christ is but one step to having faith in Jesus.

>>20255192
If you're a Protestant? Believe that Jesus died for your sins and repent.

If you're a Catholic? Blow the pope on Sundays and read the catechism.

>>20254351
I was there at one point, falling over and over.
any time you feel the urge, remember how horrible you'll feel afterwards, how it will give you nothing.
something someone explained here once helped; the one thing i really remember of it, "realize how sin makes you subhuman"

try to derive pleasure from avoiding those meaningless things.
Try to take that step once, see how good it is; and every time you have to do it again, remind yourself of it.
>>20254376
discard the latter. it's tough, but it's what it is.
you have to go all in.
Try to remove the lust from it; i'd say that's at bottom friendship and love (not lust, fraternal love if i had to specify) corrupted. you know that arousal you may feel? realize, and get out of that haze. look at it from outside, and see how that makes you feel.

don't fall on the predestination hole gentlemen.

>>20254829
>>20254937
>>20255169
thank you very much for your answers, i‘ll spend some time thinking about it and my feelings towards christianity in general.

>>20256344
The main thing to remember is the context of the Pauline epistles, which is the only place in the new covenant that homosexuality comes up (and even then, almost all occurrences are disputed due to the translation of a word that occurs nowhere else in literature, only 1 reference is undisputed), and those were written specifically to help individual churches with their specific problems. For example, Paul says women should be silent in church, but no one takes this as a commandment because they recognise that it was because the specific church had a problem with women gossiping during worship. Similarly, Paul circumcisee Timothy while simultaneously espousing that circumcision is unnecessary because he knows the particular community will be more likely to accept Timothy if he's circumcised

>>20256344
and listen. i suppose we've all asked God something and tried to ignore the answer because we didn't like it.

>>20256366
>which is the only place in the new covenant that homosexuality comes up
The Sermon on the Mount doesn't count?

>>20256366
>no one takes this as a commandment because they recognise that it was because the specific church had a problem with women gossiping during worship
WRONG you Satanic faggot, for Adam was formed first, then Eve, and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and fell into transgression, and they are to be submissive, as the law also says. It is shameful for women to speak in church. Those reasons, all given by Paul for women to be silent in church, are universal and not only applicable to one church and its solo problems. Stop listening to a bunch of world coddling apologetics fags and read the Bible. 1 Corinthians 14:33-35 and 1 Timothy 2 11-12

>>20255192
I do not understand how you could have such a view on the Law of Christ. It is so much more. It is a path of stalwart moral striving towards excellence and sanctification; towards perfection, divinization. It is inspiration by the Holy Spirit, it is total submission of the individual will to the will of God, and it is a cultivation of spiritual illumination and wisdom. It is a communion, and ultimately union, with God.

>>20251836
"The cause of our dispute is your support for Israel" - Bin Laden

>>20251164
The Old Testament refers to a prophet after Moses who will establish a new Law and Covenant.

>>20256533
you're teetering extremely close to the 'everything is God' "spiritual" bullshit.
do get some distance from it.

>>20256686
What he says is totally Orthodox. Union with God does not entail loss of individuality, it is participation in the divine nature. Read John 17, Ephesians and 2 Peter 1:4

>>20256931
it just doesn't sound that way.
especially with the "divinization" bit.
sounds off, if just a little.

>>20254024
> There was vegetation on Earth before things such as the stars who are the source of light of the universe?
When reading about the pre-Fall world, you must realize that it was radically different in many respects than the fallen world today. All of your errors here derive from thinking the same uniformitarian laws applied during the creation of the earth and prior to its falling into corruption and subjection to futility. With your particular question here, I merely would ask why God did not just fill the universe with light, or energy, without stars or anything else. There’s no reason to say he cannot.

> How did the plants were able to do photosynthesis without the light from the sun?
They were sustained by the power of the Word of God alone. The wisdom here is that the sun is not the sustaining power of everything on earth, but God. And again, this is the incorrupt pre-Fall world of the first six days of creation.

> According to science the stars existed before plants on Earth existed.
Science only works in a post-Fall world assuming the laws and physics that we have now. Induction and the creation of hypotheses for the pre-Fall world is impossible, as there are different laws and ways that God was doing things. Modern science, especially the historical aspect of science which focuses on things that allegedly happened ‘billions’ of years ago, is based off of many unproveable philosophical assumptioms about reality such as uniformitarianism, the idea that the past extends back billions of years in the first place, and implicitly that God does not exist, hence why theories such as evolution must hlbe concocted in the first place.

> Who is wrong?
God, as always. The prophetic dimension of the Bible alone makes it clear to me that what Moses wrote through the Spirit in Genesis is the truth.

>>20256961
Divinization is just translating theosis into English. As long as one realizes that we are divinized *by grace* and do not merge with the divine essence, the doctrine is orthodox. To say that we are merged in with the divine essence, or enter into the Trinity or become capital ‘G’ God is heretical though. I’m being charitable towards that anon, but he could mean something totally different for all I know.

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>>20254024 #
> There was vegetation on Earth before things such as the stars who are the source of light of the universe?
When reading about the pre-Fall world, you must realize that it was radically different in many respects than the fallen world today. All of your errors here derive from thinking the same uniformitarian laws applied during the creation of the earth and prior to its falling into corruption and subjection to futility. With your particular question here, I merely would ask why God did not just fill the universe with light, or energy, without stars or anything else. There’s no reason to say he cannot.

> How did the plants were able to do photosynthesis without the light from the sun?
They were sustained by the power of the Word of God alone. The wisdom here is that the sun is not the sustaining power of everything on earth, but God. And again, this is the incorrupt pre-Fall world of the first six days of creation.

> According to science the stars existed before plants on Earth existed.
Science only works in a post-Fall world assuming the laws and physics that we have now. Induction and the creation of hypotheses for the pre-Fall world is impossible, as there are different laws and ways that God was doing things. Modern science, especially the historical aspect of science which focuses on things that allegedly happened ‘billions’ of years ago, is based off of many unproveable philosophical assumptioms about reality such as uniformitarianism, the idea that the past extends back billions of years in the first place, and implicitly that God does not exist, hence why theories such as evolution must hlbe concocted in the first place.

> Who is wrong?
God is right, as always. The prophetic dimension of the Bible alone makes it clear to me that what Moses wrote through the Spirit in Genesis is the truth

>>20257005
No you're correct, this is what I meant.

>>20257005
exactly. i took the opposite stance, as it did get a bit ambiguous.
>>20257040
All nice, then. hadn't had talks end this nicely in a while.

why didn't he bless the fig tree

>>20257163
It was a representing the Jewish people and how they did not bear fruit for God, so it was cursed. There is a fig tree referenced in Jeremiah as well.

>>20257163
>simping for fig trees
fuck em

>>20257163
dont be such a figgot anon

>>20257014
> Modern science is based off of many unproveable philosophical assumptioms about reality
Again, there is no such thing as scientific proof. Proof only exists in the realm of logic and math. And anyone can see how science is much better than philosophy and theology in advancing human society and making life better for humans. Science got us on the moon, religion got us wasting time with meaningless stuff about made up fiction. No wonder in advanced human societies secularism is the norm and religion is a joke for kids.

>>20257874
>advancing human society
>making life better
>meaningless
How did you use the scientific method to ascertain that life is ‘better’ now?

>>20257890
Just look at the millions of people throughout history that died from diseases which are now treatable or even extinct thanks to science and vaccines. Try to pray to God to cure your children cancer instead of gettin medical treatment ;)

>>20257923
Derive an Ought from an Is.

>>20257923
cut and dry edgy atheist.
grow up.

>>20257923
>child transsexualism
>abortion
>violent crime rates
>record suicides
>sexual degeneracy
>birthrates
>forced vaccinations
>corporate oligarchy

>>20257952
and a reminder that morality and ethics are derived from Christian values.

>>20244381
Because all Christians vote for the Bible regardless of what other books they like.

>>20257960
>God is fake and gay we will use our new Science God to determine morality!
>scissors off penis because e-oppression of binaural latinX transwomen of color are protosexually offended
>wow amazing hail Sa- uh Science

I pray God is as vengeful and mean as atheists strawman Him out to be, this world deserves fire.

>>20257952
>>child transsexualism
what does this have to do with science?
>abortion
abortion and infanticide were ALWAYS practiced by humans since forever, nothing to do with science
>violent crime rates
what does this have to do with science?
>record suicides
what does this have to do with science?
>sexual degeneracy
what does this have to do with science?
>birthrates
what does this have to do with science?
>forced vaccinations
this is good
>corporate oligarchy
what does this have to do with science?

>>20257979
Do better

>>20257874
I’m not against all science, friend

how's the binding of the oxford leather bible?
is it well-made?

The divinity of Jesus in the Synoptics:

Matthew 9:1-8
>Be of good heart, son, thy sins are forgiven thee.
>3 And behold some of the scribes said within themselves: He blasphemeth.

Matthew 8:23-27
>26 And Jesus saith to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded the winds, and the sea, and there came a great calm.
>27 But the men wondered, saying: What manner of man is this, for the winds and the sea obey him?

Mark 10:18
>“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone.

Matthew 22:44
>Jesus said to them, “How then does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord’? For he says: 44‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand until I put Your enemies under Your feet.”’ 45So if David calls Him ‘Lord,’ how can He be David’s son?”

Luke 22:66-71
> But from this time on the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the power of God.” 70 They all asked, “Are you then the Son of God?” He replied to them, “You say that I am.” 71 Then they said, “What further need have we for testimony? We have heard it from his own mouth.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EeO8zRtFus

>>20257874
You dismiss philosophy and theology and then immediately make a normative statement involving science.

>>20258388
>Ehrman refutes himself and realizes
>"im stopping now"
is it wrong to find it comical?

>>20257979
>forced vaccinations this is good
Your mind has been moulded like putty by leftist propaganda. Many such cases of scientism and retardation correlating like this.

>>20258587
why is forced vaccinations bad?

>>20246876
>church came "later", after holy writ
You have it exactly backwards. Learn your own history. The church came first, it was founded by Jesus Christ. Retard prots abandoned it and its pre-biblical traditions.

>For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
>O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

>>20258371
>oxford
>nrsv
lev 18:22

>>20256533
All these words are vague though. Striving towards excellence is defined differently in different contexts. In this context, excellence is abiding by the golden rule, which would mean that you agree with my original post.

>>20258760
There's an underappreciated way to check if you're progressing towards Christ and that's to see how angry jews get when you tell them what you believe in
The angrier they get the closer you are to our Lords example

So can I ask a question in good faith?
If Catholics don't necessarily pray towards Mary and the Saints, as many claim they are simply (to use a disrespectful term) power-ups for their prayers, what is the fundamental problem with just addressing all prayers towards Christ himself?
I apologize if this is a commonly addressed point, but if Christ is the only true path to salvation, and Mary and the Saints are nestled in the bosom of our Lord in Heaven, why wouldn't you, a practicing Christian, in an attempt to ensure the purity of your prayers, simply directly address Christ himself?
I know the Bible speaks about communal prayer and keeping others in your thoughts, and I'm not attacking the practice of taking help wherever you can get it while on Earth, but why not remove even the tiniest .000000001% chance of idolatrous behavior from occurring?

>>20258913
Disclaimer: I'm not Catholic or Orthodox, so I might be unqualified to answer this.
To me the veneration of saints is less about the saint themselves and more about recognizing the ability of God to work through fallen, flawed humanity and for humans to be perfected through God. By recognizing someone as a saint and asking them to pray for me, I'm acknowledging the fact that God is not some detached cosmic being with little to do with human affairs, but one who works through His individual servants, according to their natures and talents, and the fact that even though I am a sinful and depraved human being, the possibility exists for me to become perfected and divinized, as the saints of the past are. On top of this is the standard Biblical answer about the great cloud of witnesses and the prayer of a righteous man availing much.
If someone has a more orthodox answer or finds an issue with my thoughts please let me know.

I just read Genesis and Exodus. So far God like Zeus. It's not really monotheistic, but he's simply the God of Israel. Other groups have their own gods.

I don't think the first chapters of Gensis are even describing the creation of the world as much as they are just describing the beginning of Israel, because Cain goes off and there's already other people in the world. God creating all mankind is inconsistent and seems shoehorned in

>>20244463
Jesus saved a prostitute and a tax collector. Worst of the worst in that society.

>>20258388
>>20258570
When I watched the Ehrman/Akin debate a few weeks back, and Akin got Ehrman to admit "Huh...I never thought of that" on a question about Joseph having possibly two houses, I realized just how little Ehrman knows compared to how much he wants people to think he knows.

>>20259043
other "gods" are idols, man-made and powerless.
try studying a bit, if you may.

>>20259058
Those atheists saying that you can’t be a real Christian on 4chan are delusional. Many Christians are former drug addicts, prostitutes and criminals and hobos. It’s even easier to convert those kind of people because they’re mostly lost and depressed and seeking for help that religion often gives them.

>>20259133
here's the catch, they say that to try and disencourage anyone here. Not any point or anything, just want you miserable.

>>20259169
Ha it’s no wonder that atheists kill themselves more than christians. They seem like a bunch of miserable cunts.

>>20259208
no need to be rude either, they just haven't found truth yet.

>>20259208
very christ-like post

>>20244463
>Jesus wouldn't spend any time with the sinners!
t. hasn't read the Bible

>>20259239
case in point.
Romans 14:10
>You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat.
do not be a stumbling block for those weak in faith.

>>20259272
Wasn't the like the point to make them stop sinning and come to God?

Well, I guess there isn't a commandment about hanging out NOT hanging out on an website that board dedicated to futacocks

>>20259239
>Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Enjoy burning in hell.

>>20259279
yeah, same point here aswell.

you might be confusing their point with the people who say you should be among sinners leisurely by misinterpreting that. as is also said, Corinthians 15:33
>Do not be misled: “Bad company corrupts good character.”
If you're not there to help them be saved, why be?

>>20259316
very christ-like post

>>20259318
If that's the point, why are you guys actively driving people away from Christianity?

>>20259316
you're merely insulting them for not seeing truth, while telling them to seek it.
why do you think that'll help?
even misinterpreting a verse for it; that refers to strife because of the Gospel, not mere insults.

>>20259329
if you refer to the other guy around, you shouldn't generalize. usually good fellows around.
If it's some other example, i'd like to hear it.

>>20259341
No, I mean in general. The Christians on this site are retarded.
There would be more sinners turning to God without them. Christians got no justification for hanging out with sinners on 4chan.

>>20259326
Oh so you think that Christ was a gay peace loving hippie with eleven boyfriends like atheists like to portray him? I’m sorry sweetie, but you need to read the Bible and see all the violent acts Jesus did.

>>20259332
He is a lost cause. God already knows who is going to hell and who is going to be saved. That thing will only hurt more people by trying to turn away them from God like he is doing here>>20259359
He is basically just repeating the same point that was refuted before.

>>20259359
i'd say atleast here, it's mostly good talks and people.
issue being some kinds of people. I disagree on the 'you shouldn't be here';
i've seen a lot of people being helped.

>>20259359
There's a fair number of Christians who retain the 4chan mindset of relentless autism mixed with silverback gorilla threat response and present as edgy shitposters but with Jesus
I'm no saint, but any time I try to speak as a Christian I do so without any ego and with understanding that many modern detractors of Christianity are attacking the fallen church version that has been subverted on so many levels.
I try to offer Christian advice and insight only when it is asked for, but you'd be surprised how many young men are desperate on this place to have a purpose and to know something, somewhere is looking out for them.

I'd like to think after many posts I at least helped someone know God a little better.
Plus the memes are good.

>Jesus wouldn't spend any time with the sinners!
I want you guys to be real honest now, is this the reason you spend your time on a Japanese imageboard?

>>20259279
Jesus hung out with sinners all the time. He had dinner with them, they invited him to their parties, they were a part of his entourage. He didn't walk up to them and start proselytizing lmao.

You think Jesus was just singularly minded about conversion and repentence? The sinners were more fun and had more open minds. Jesus wanted nothing to do with the Pharisees since they already thought they were Holy. He had a better time with the sinners and knew that he could influence them to see the truth more easily than anyone else. In the same way, I think many Christians see 4chan as the epicenter of people who are not good, know they are not good, and thus are open to the truth. There's also a whole lot less bullshit here than anywhere else as, surprise surprise, anywhere that people think highly of themselves is a no-fun zone.

>>20259439
me? I think they are acting in a way that is inconsistent with their beliefs. That, or LARPing

>>20243004
Recently learned the term sod comes from sodomite.

>>20259451
>I think they are acting in a way that is inconsistent with their beliefs.
Why?

>>20259427
I originally came here years ago and enjoyed the honesty and conversation available on different topics, but eventually got sucked (heh) into being a part time coomer for some years.
After about 2020 I stopped using porn although I still commit bodily sins from time to time, I am trying to wean myself off of it completely. It's really tough, but somewhat easier as I find myself desiring to be worthy of a wife more and more.
In truth I largely participate in a select few threads that specifically interest me, because the freedom to talk about anything and use any language is still a luxury, although Telegram is...alright at times.

The best threads are the webms for ck, the general retardation of k and fit, and the caturday threads. Sometimes I pick up a cool gardening thread too!

>>20259542
I also like these threads too of course!!

@20257979

>>20259427
I only use Christian related threads with only very rare exceptions. I often hide threads with wicked OP images.

>>20258913
>what is the fundamental problem with just addressing all prayers towards Christ himself?
Venerating the mother of God and contemplating her joys and sorrows would lead you to understanding her and adoring her son. She leads some of us to Jesus. This and obeying the will of God would potentially predispose heaven to receive your prayers more favorably.

Going straight to Christ is fine too. But it's not a full spiritual life, and not because Christ is insufficient but rather because you are. You'd be like the mortician going to see the Godfather on the day of his daughters wedding and asking a favor without the courtesy of ever showing interest in being his friend.

Newcomer to the thread
What books not included in the KJV do I need to read?

>>20258913
they don't have a good reason. It really is the absolute weakest part of their faith. The new testament addresses this head on and refutes it by, numerous times, explaining that there is no intercession required between man and Christ as Christ is already the intercession between us and the Father. And if anything is needed to be done to get us closer to Christ, anything at all that we as man must do, then Christ died in vain. Every prayer addressed to a Saint or Mary is misguided. They cannot hear your prayers as they are not God. They cannot intercede for you as they are not closer to Jesus than you are.

It is a relic of the Church from literally 1500 years ago when a) they needed to convert pagans who were used to praying to different entities for different purposes and b) there was a superstitious belief that the dead were closer to God because they were already in heaven, even though the Bible also makes it pretty clear that none of us will be with the father until the day of Judgement.

>>20260918
The Apocrypha. And it depends on the KJV whether they're included, you can get them added on.

How do I resist the lure of fundamentalism?

>>20260932
Could you please provide a reference as to where it is asserted in the Bible that noone will be with the father until Judgement day?

>>20261250
>>20261250
>>20261250
New thread for the continuity of old conversations.

>>20259279
We need to improve our propaganda apparatus.

>>20257965
And?

>>20262272
It's not really a fair competition cause no one is afraid of going to hell for not liking Infinite Jest.