/lit/ - Literature

>>20168518
won't say you're entirely wrong but it's really only people outside the academic world (or on its fringes) who imagine this

I failed out and I can't afford to go back. Hold me bros.

>>20168518
You're conflating knowledge with intelligence. They're unrelated. Additionally, by your logic, if I were to watch enough YouTube videos and do the work, I'd be just as knowledgeable and expert as anyone else, more knowledgeable and intelligent than any autodidact... as long as the YouTube videos come from Harvard. Or are you trying to tell me that the physical feeling of being in those giant symposiums with hundreds of people constitutes the genuine Harvard Mentoring Experience (yes, that'll be $40k per semester plus tip)? Or is it the meetings with the enthusiastic and highly-accomplished TA's wherein lies the value?

Nigger, please. Maybe this kind of talk impresses people who were born in a cornfield, but if you've been around the "elites," and if you know enough people who went on to go to ivy league schools, the institution starts to lose some of its glamor.

>>20168533
Not in my experience. I excelled in academia but very rarely read in my spare time. Nevertheless I always find myself cringing when someone who reads a lot but never went to university/did poorly in academia thinks they are more intelligent than me. It always shows pretty quickly that they aren't.

>>20168518
If I get a PhD will they teach me not to conflate intelligence with knowledge at the end of my paragraph and thereby undermine my argument?

>>20168565
>always find myself cringing when someone who reads a lot but never went to university/did poorly in academia thinks they are more intelligent than me
How do you know they aren't? What's your metric?

>>20168573
They usually have irrational views, and are more likely to be reactionary. I'm in the UK, and they're more likely to be Brexit voters. Their lack of understanding of the world always come through.

>>20168518
True in theory, often untrue in practice. Many areas of academia have become circlejerks and ideological instruments. For example, humanities and social sciences.
Everything I learned after my first year there was unnecessary, and usually political indoctrination.

>>20168565
seen anybody about it yet?
only joking, it's really not something you come across though. the real benefit of good schools might be in that old chesterton remark 'without education we are in a horrible and deadly danger of taking educated people seriously.'

Exactly. I am working on a double minor in gender studies and already get so many project requests I have to turn them down.

>>20168518
>To become genuinely knowledgeable, you need to succeed in academia. You need experts who can mentor you and guide you.

>>20168579
That's not much of a metric. You say they have irrational views, but what that actually says is that YOU THINK they have irrational views. Is it rational to see yourself as so smart and so knowledgeable that you—at 19 or 20 or however old you probably are—are the cosmic arbitrator of rationality? Very, very smart people can be irrational all the time. That's part of the human condition, and if you think you are sufficiently rational and logical such that you are in a position to judge others' intelligence based on whether or not you agree with them... that is, in and of itself, pretty fucking irrational, isn't it? Isn't the more rational perspective one which allows for your own fallibility?

>>20168579
>I'm in the UK, and they're more likely to be Brexit voters
christ

>>20168579
Excellent bait, anon

>>20168628
No, it's shitty bait. It's why I purposefully decided to avoid the political minefield.

>>20168647
You should try harder then because so far you're not succeeding.

OK retard.

>oh boy another "rich white kids thinks he's figured it all out by 16" thread !

>>20168518
Thats a take that can only be made by someone that hasn't been to uni or that isnt honest.

>>20168518
This would make sense if the university system wasn’t complete garbage now and the blind leading the blind

>>20168711
cosign

I don't know about that. I've been less than impressed with every Ivy Leaguer I've ever come into contact with, and the people who went to from these schools to the government have done such a poor job that I think they should be barred from holding federal office.

>>20168559
>Nigger, please. Maybe this kind of talk impresses people who were born in a cornfield, but if you've been around the "elites," and if you know enough people who went on to go to ivy league schools, the institution starts to lose some of its glamor.
This. I'm balls-deep in academic (STEM field), and they are (almost) universally a bunch of globohomo faggots who love doing nothing more that sucking each other off and wasting borrowed fiat.

pasta:
You are cattle on a tax farm. Here is how the system works:
>Privately-owned central bank generates fiat currency out of thin air and lends it to government at interest
>Government disperses fiat by any means plausible (muh 'public-supported' academic research)
>Government then taxes the citizenry IN PERPETUITY to repay the loan
The current function of western governments is to *BORROW* fiat from a privately-owned central bank and then *TAX* the citizenry to repay the interest-bearing loan.
>BORROW
>TAX
BORROW
TAX
Do you understand yet? Government debt will continue to increase until:
(Annual Tax Revenue) = (Interest-only Payment on the Debt)
...or until you stop them.

>>20168518
Ivy-Oxbridge is miles ahead of your average bumfuck state uni or bumfuck nowhere college
The amount of opportunities, funding is insane.
Want to travel to Greece and study 14th century Monasteries? Ivy will grant you a 10.000$ fund no big deal, meanwhile the biggest state universities will fight tooth and nail not to pay for online loeb subscription.

>>20168518
Cute

>>20168518
Not wrong, but not entirely right. Fetishizing paper-competence has murdered people's desire to learn on their own. I always viewed universities as a means to further foster the academic interests and curiosities of the inquiring student that had been developed over their adolescence. Society would be a happier and healthier place if more people chose to dig into their hobbies and interests PRIOR to pursuing higher education in that area. Auto-didacts should be encouraged, not belittled in this regard.
It is honestly a societal failure that many 17-18 year olds (and mature students too) choose majors/professions on a superficial hunch (money, prestige, family pressure, etc.) rather than a genuine desire.

>>20168518
I feel like it's a crap-shoot. I've had some stellar professors from whom I've learned things I wouldn't ever have otherwise, and other professors whose semester could be taught better by a secondary text.

>>20168518
>To become genuinely knowledgeable, you need to succeed in academia. You need experts who can mentor you and guide you.

>>20168737
TANGENT!

>>20169221
>To become genuinely knowledgeable
>genuinely
And therein lies the problem: the circular and self-referential manner in which academia doles out authenticity. It allocates itself a heaping spoonful of the stuff, of course, and varying amounts to those who play best by its rules. It's a racket, honestly. You'll get the diploma and pay the tuition and follow the rules or academia will break your fucking kneecaps. Fuck that.

>this thread every day

>>20168518
>To become genuinely knowledgeable, you need to succeed in academia.
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
wheezing
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>20168518
Debate me on any topic.

>>20169238
You can tell this man would fail in academia because his post isn't garbage.

>implying I don't already have a PhD from an Ivy League university

I just like shitposting here.

>>20168518
You don't realize you're a fool so let me show you:
Do anons on this board really believe that I can consider myself to be knowledgeable because I read lots of books? To become genuinely knowledgeable, I need to succeed in academia. I need experts who can mentor me and guide me. The education I got from high school and higher education was always going to be significantly better than anything I could learn from just reading books in my spare time. I cannot read myself into becoming as educated as someone who as been to Harvard or Oxford. Someone who has been academically successful will always be far more intelligent than any autodidact.

>>20169294
>Someone who has been academically successful will always be far more intelligent than any autodidact.
even this is probably more generous than is deserved. a less charitable, and maybe more accurate reading would be:
>because i am academically successful, i am smarter than every autodidact.

>>20169294
Academia has no experts or mentors, it has fading boomer professors who, whatever else you want to say about them, didn't prevent or lament the advent of the millennial hipster academic, and together with the millennial academic they are now presiding over the rise of the brain-fried zoomer academic

If you came into my kitchen and I was frying up a piece of shit, with the help of my friend, a giant piece of shit in oxfords and skinny jeans, would you want cooking advice from me? Well that's the state of academics today, shit eaters presiding over shit eating pieces of shit presiding over pieces of shit.

>>20169400
Yeah it's true. It is is seeing how murderously obvious it is when someone doesn't have Christ and they try thinking - they swallow themselves in their own words.

>>20168518
A lot of the books that people study in University literature courses are written by autodidacts.

>>20168518
Shit bait thread. Most people genuinely express this kind of cope because putting forth effort into an absurd abstraction is unsatisfactory to a monkey brain that is more concerned with food and sex than gay global society machinery or autistic dissection of material reality. They have to come up with copes like this to overpower the monkey. It's easier to beat the monkey when you invoke an inferiority complex. Usually this is the original inferiority of a small child to his or her adult mother or father. You need some kind of irrational motivator to express idiocy like this sincerely because anyone who engages with these ideas honestly comes away with radically different opinions. This is a post glorifying the identity gifted by the machine. A badge of honor among slaves and only respected by other slaves. Knowledge without fruit is worthless. Nobody gives a shit about your supposed intelligence or lack of intelligence. What matters is what you create.

>>20168518
>you read lots of books
You are giving them a lot of credit, 99% of /lit/ just regurgitates everyone else opinions.

>>20168566
No they will teach you how to do le hecking correct citations.

>>20168518
I consider myself knowledgeable but not only because I read books. Reading is just one facet of being knowledgeable.

>>20169693
>Shit bait thread

>Procedes with happily swallowing the bait and being reeled in while writing a while essay disputing the obvious batw

>>20168518
>Someone who has been academically successful will always be far more intelligent than any autodidact

>>20168518
Thanks for a good laugh today OP.

>>20168518
I've studied in Oxford (Trinity college) and have published in my field, are you happy now fag? Now lemme read in peace

>>20169931
>most people GENUINELY express this kind of cope
Work on your comprehension skills. It's literally the sixth word. I sincerely addressed the idea as if it were a sincere phenomenon because it is even if the OP specifically is just an irony goblin. I engage with ideas, not people because people and their irony games are not worth giving attention to.

>>20170013
bit weird to act like yr taking a high road when you clearly are rattled though

i mean this is true. no matter how many books i read i'll always be a midwit. i might be better than the average marvel consoomer but that's a low bar. i'm not a man of action. true intellect and wisdom comes from living life and operating on many different levels.

>>20168518
>To become genuinely knowledgeable, you need to succeed in academia.
Succeeding in academia is simply one measue for the amount of books you have to read and the way in which you have to read them.
Being in academia alone is not enough, even having a degree may only prove you to be an expert in whatever topic in your field you graduated on. This board is split between graduates who trust academia way too much and people who've never set foot in a university or failed to acheive anything there. Discussion between these groups can hardly be called that, it is a contrarian struggle at best from which the more modest may come to learn the futility of both sides efforts.
Some anons talk about knowledge not equating to intelligence, which is of course true, but to ignore the relation between the two, for there cannot be intelligence without knowledge and having knowledge enables intelligence in the first place, would be disingenious.
>You need experts who can mentor you and guide you
To say this can be done outside of an academic environment, outside smaller cities like New Haven, Cambridge and the other Cambridge and Oxford is again disingenious, but not as impossible. Being a student however and having studied, graduated (earning a MA or equal degree) does not guarantee ever having had or getting a mentor, nor does being a doctoral student.
Your mentor is as much happenstance as it is your own genius to attract interest in your person, to be educated and such. I know a few students in my year who found mentors who were like them in their major while I found some in my minor and outside my own immediate university environment in art and social spaces. It differs.
We can though agree that most students will not find a mentor, but that those students are neither knowledgable nor all too interesting, nor would they know how to interact with more experienced and older people socially.
>You cannot read yourself into becoming as educated as someone who [has] been to Harvard or Oxford.
On the contrary, those people did exactly that. If you can match their progress and process you can become as educated, if you find mentors who aid you in *your* discipline, field, ambition and later career who impart upon you experience as crucial as that imparted unto ivy league students there is nothing holding you back. But it is less likely, I do agree, not only in the amount of quality people to speak with, but also in the quality of the people generally. So in a way you're right.

This argument is heavily context dependent. I don't fault you for writing a wall of text into OP, but it's not as easy. This you probably know yourself.

>>20170078
>yr
it's impossible to take anyone seriously who types like they're a thirteen year old girl on AIM.

>>20170192
AIM? wow
& not sure how to respond to that one. i picked it up from kingsley amis' letters

>>20170192
That's a tranny. Don't even dignify them by likening them to a woman, especially since most trannies are pedophiles. They type like fat gay men on twitter.

>>20168518
>You cannot read yourself into becoming as educated as someone who as been to Harvard or Oxford.

>>20168518
>Do anons on this board really believe that you can consider yourself to be knowledgeable because you read lots of books? To become genuinely knowledgeable, you need to succeed in academia.
My best friend goes to cambridge and i don't, she told me that she thinks i'm more knowledgeable than her. She is however, much more INTELLIGENT than me (though she is reticent to admit it). A person has very little innate knowledge but most of their intelligence (though it's impacted by schooling and experience) is innate.
Knowledge and intelligence are not the same thing, and people who conflate them do not nor will ever have either.

>>20168565
You seem like a moron desu.

>>20168518
I don't even really care enough to start a boring polemic with you and tell you why you are wrong. All the evidence that is needed is that nothing intellectually valuable or worthwhile has come out of Oxford or Harvard for probably 40 or 50 years. I don't think Harvard has produced any impactful philosophy since John Rawls was publishing in the 70s. I haven't got a god damn clue what Oxford has produced - Parfit? Parfit in the 80s? Is that the last kind-of-but-not-really notable intellectual that came out of there?

>these are the supposedly most knowledgeable and intelligent people on the planet
OHNONONONO OXFORDBROS WE GOT TOO COCKY

>>20170428
God I wish I went to Oxford and had a girlfriend.

>>20170439
Do you wish you got pegged by her though?

OP is a Brit and it shows. Here in Europe, higher education is considered to be a prerequisite if you wish to be taken seriously. Otherwise, the stable awaits. Or an administrative office job. Rigid, is all.
Am German and I never went to highschool and beyond so perhaps it is in fact due to my lacking intelligence. However, even my time in rancid, bottom-feeder jobs did not result in as many negative experiences with other people as my time around students and some such "fine" company did. Call me an uneducated arse that enjoys the smell of his own testicle sweat but I shit on university students and their self-centered way of looking down on any other non-enlightened individual.

>>20170428
estrogen filled males tend to be more intelligent. so yeah.

>>20168518

>>20168071

OP obviously made the above post, didn't get the responses he was looking for, so made this bait thread instead.

>Do anons on this board really believe that you can consider yourself to be knowledgeable because you read lots of books?
Yes

sola scriptura

>>20169876
>99% of /lit/ just regurgitates everyone else opinions.
Isnt that what happens when you read books? All those ideas become yours and you just regurgitate some dead philosopher. Reading and Knowledge is fine, it's just modern people with modern technology are kinda useless.

>>20170760
literally not even in the bible

>>20170742
It is surprising how easily /lit/ falls for bait. Seems like the only way to generate discussion is by posting bait.

>>20172562
people don't care if it's bait or not they just love getting on their soapbox

>>20168518
>life experience
>academic expertise
>autodidacticism
Why not all three? Op of course knows where he's going with this, and is objectively the usual brand of bridge troll who needs to go the way of Hedda Gabler.

>>20168518
>“I swear by God’s body, I’d rather that my son should hang than study letters. For it becomes the sons of gentlemen to blow the horn nicely, to hunt skillfully and elegantly, carry and train a hawk. But the study of letters should be left to the sons of rustics.”

I didn't

>>20168925
>Ivy will grant you a 10.000$ fund no big deal,
Yes because it's a glorified FUCKING JOB you RETARD.

>>20168518
>He wants to be an academic/scholar.
>He wants to be 'knowledgable'.
NGMI

Knowledge is a social construct

>>20168518
Brainlet take

>>20168518
I speak 3 languages fluently, 2 poorly, I have a graduate degree in a STEM subject and I read around 50 books per year on average. I consider myself functionally retarded and 90% of people completely retarded.
I have no hope left for anyone on this earth.