/lit/ - Literature

first for zyzz

Kindred - Octavia E. Butler (1979)

In California, on June 9th 1976 a 26 year old black woman married to a 38 year old white man, inexplicably disappears and readily comes to understand that she's thousands of miles away, near Baltimore, Maryland, and it's 1815. As she travels between the past and present, she quickly comes to realize the truth of these sojourns. To ensure her ancestor is born, she must repeatedly save another ancestor of hers, the white male son of a plantation owner with dozens of slaves. Many sacrifices have to be made, both of herself living as a slave, and of the dozens of other slaves present, to ensure that the tragedies that have already occurred, occur again.

While this was a time travel story, that wasn't really what it's about. The fictional aspects are simply plot devices to allow for telling a certain kind of narrative. Aside from that, it almost may as well be historical fiction. Butler described as it being a "grim fantasy". The story itself was told non-linearly, which in this case worked well for me. Story progression is mostly plot driven, though the characters interactions are rather interesting. I appreciated the parallelisms between two of the male characters and how it indicted them both, in different ways.

I think this would be a suitable text to teach in English classes in the United States in high school during either the junior or senior years. It's relatively short and filled with dialogue, so it made for a quick and easy read. Though, when I looked at the covers of the other editions I saw that one of the French editions had almost full frontal nudity on the cover, which was a curious choice. The closest I read to this in high school was Native Son by Richard Wright (1940) during my Junior year.

Sometimes when topic of slavery has come up when I've been talking to non-Americans it had led to interactions that I found interesting. One particular example was a German guy I talked to who after I told him that I watched 12 Years A Slave told me that he completely avoided anything to do with slavery because Germany's national trauma had made it to where he couldn't deal with the traumatic history of any other country.

I don't quite know why I didn't enjoy this more. There's just something about it that didn't feel like it accomplished all that it could've. Maybe it's because it seemed liked it was written for educational empathy purposes, which is why I felt like it would be a good fit for being taught. Even so, it's certainly still a worthwhile read. There's also an adaptation that's in the works. I was going to read more from black authors this month, but it seems that I didn't.

Rating: 3.5/5

>>19981978
why are crystals so kino

is there anything else as good as this

>>19982001
No.

>>19982001
There's something even better

The one true king of /sffg/

jolenta wanted the BTC

>>19982018

>>19982001
I think it SUCKED.

I'm posting this again
Give me some fantasy (or scifi) books in which explicitly Christian cosmology is real and immanent.
I read Gene Wolfe's Wizard Knight and liked it though it was a tad subtle. I've also read Silmarillion and Narnia and I have plans to read CS Lewis' space trilogy as well.
Somebody suggested that Between Two Evils book but that actually winds up edgier and more depressing than Wayne Barlowe's books that are literally set in Hell.

Anybody read this yet? Just bought the audiobook. Thought it sounded interesting.

Bakkerchads besiege your thread
Marching tirelessly like a death machine
With sharp steel and helms on head
The most grim sight ever seen
Those who disrespect him will be dead
On defending Bakker they are so keen

>>19982219
Maybe if you had pulled the cock out of your mouth you wouldn't be late to the fucking game.
Fuck, you're just getting pathetic now.

Idk much about Stannis but I want him to become king
Can't wait to start reading A Clash of Kings

>>19982217
I'm a sucker for ghost ship stories so thanks for bringing it up. I'll probably start it next week.

>>19982230
The one true king is the dead guy, because only he refuses to kneel before stupid twats.

>>19982223
Bakker Poets Rule Supreme
Filthy haters rage and scream
Rage so hard they blow steam
Can't compete even in a dream

>>19982245
Which dead guy?

>>19982233

>>19982259
Bakkerfaggots must've had to stay late in english/language arts, looks like you still can't move beyond simple rhyming.
>facepalm
Of course! You weren't staying late, you were waiting for the shortbus!

>>19982270
>says he's about to open book two
>tries running face first into a spoiler from books 4-6
I didn't say anything more specific for a reason.

>>19982286
I thought you meant Robert
Never mind, thanks for being gentle with me

>>19982292
My sarcasm must not cary through text if you think that's gentle =P

How many of these did you read?

>>19982217
>>19982233
I tried reading it. Here's what I thought about it. I won't be using the tripcode because I didn't finish it. There's various other book in my profile that are the same that I didn't finish:

Not really what I expected or wanted, but that's on me. There's nothing wrong with it really, it's just that I didn't care enough to continue reading it. The protagonist is relatable for, maybe too much and not quite in the right way though. Maybe eventually I'll find "horror" that I like, or not, either way. Here's a few excerpts from early on.

>I’m only thirty-three, almost thirty-four, and it feels like my life is over.

>He makes me feel. Jesus. Is there anything more powerful, more dangerous than that?

>People who’ve heard my story usually can’t help themselves, staring at me with disgust or a mix of pity and prurient curiosity that feels like a violation.

>“I’ve never met anyone so determined to prove that they don’t care. It’s terrifying."

>Pride that I’ve managed to at least partially fool him; hurt because I still somehow expected him to see through the act.

>The same way I’d rather limit my attachments. To anyone.

>People can only need me so much before that button inside me is pushed and I have to walk away. And I’m not allowed to need anyone at all.

>>19982324
Interesting. Thanks for the info.

https://nightland.website/index.php/background/timeline
Waiting for my copy of The Night Land to arrive. What can I prepare myself with in the meantime? I found this timeline.

Behemoth has a totally different feel from Maelstrom. Lenie Clarke is now a tame character. Also, how am I supposed to pronounce that?

Lenny or Lah-nay?

>>19982278
Mocking the poets skill
But he won't dare compete
Bakker poetry can kill
A corpse beneath their feet

I finished Great Ordeal at last. How is Bakker so good at a absolute hype endings, bros? when Cnaiur showed up I coomed a little

>>19982158
I suggested Between two Fires and I never said it's all doom gloom and edge. It's a story about redemption, love of fellow man and belief.

Finished pic relates today. Really didn't care for how it ended. Other books were much better.
Not sure what to read next. What's the general consensus on Malazan?

>>19982585
>I coomed a little
I know that feel, I coomed a lot

>>19982772
how did it end?
I only read book 1 and got cuck vibes so I didn't bother reading the rest

>>19981978
How do find that thin line where a bunch of guys with superpowers can fight on even ends with a modern army and survive without making them invincible like Superman?

>>19981978
Anyone read Drowned World by Ballard? What am I in for? It's starting off a bit slow.

Foundation series is filtering me yet i've read five of the books so far. Do the last two get any better? Is all of Asimov like this or is there decent Asimov?
Why is he a big name in sci-fi when what I have read so far has been shit? Such an interesting concept better to have been left with an actual mathematician, would've loved some half-scifi, half essay on determinacy and Laplace's demon. The mule stuff was kinda fun, if not a bit predictable.
Has anyone read those other-author spin-offs that add on to the Foundation series? Is it a Brian Herbert situation where it's pretty much just more of the same but with less charm and therefore really only for superfans?

>>19982001
Halfway through book 3 rn. It's like Wolfe turned the kino scale up to 11 for this one. The first two were good and fun, but sword is just non-stop raw moment after moment.

>>19982030
Tfw no big tiddy augmented redhead gf. Dr. Talos was a gigafaggot desu

>>19982158
Somewhat unrelated to your request, but C.S. Lewis's Till We Have Faces is absolutely brilliant. It's a retelling of the greek myth of cupid and physche, but there is a definite Christian slant to it. It's somewhat subtle, but you'll understand if you look for it. Myths are the original sci-fi, so it kinda fits your request.
also it's the greatest book of all time

Just marathoned The Mummy and The Mummy Returns movies, I'm in the mood of something related to egypt.

Any good fantasy novels about egyptian mythology that you guys recomend?

Looking for magic novels with well-defined social structures including that magic. Basically magic + drama would be nice. no cultivation novels please

>>19983358
>looking for cultivation novels without the cultivation

>>19983170
>>/lit/thread/S16236371#p16245889
One of the earlier ones before I knew what I wanted to do with writing these.
There's one other similarlu rated review by someone else in /sffg/ as well.
Time to sleep.

>>19983408
It’s because Chinese society is soulless with no personality + Chinese authors are soulless as well. Literally everything story wise that can be done in Chinese Soviet would be more interesting in European nobility.

>>19982585
>tfw no genderbending overprotective skinspy gf (male)

>>19983456
Hey thanks for sharing your views.

after reading behold the man I officially will never read another moorcock book again, I quite liked elric but this was utter dreck, LITERALLY reads like a 2008 athiesm post.

Heh what if Jesus was a downie RETARD, and mary was a SLUT who was raped but then she tells joseph his cock was heckin big and she loved it. and time traveller tries to get baptised by john the baptist but DROWNS and swallows a ton of vomit and ALSO becomes retarded

And then there's the writing style where there's these random 1 sentence flashbacks of the main character and his gf who hates him or something

>>19981978
Has anyone read the Dark Between The Stars series? I read the Saga of the Seven Suns and enjoyed it, so I was thinking of picking up the follow up series as well.

>>19982001
BotNS is my fav book of all time, but I just want to say to the people out there: wasn't it fuckin weird.

>>19984181
Sounds absolutely terrible. Did you actually finish it? I probably would have bailed in the first 30 pages...

>>19984222
it's pretty short so yeah, I barely ever see people talk about it, probably because it's so bad

I started this and I'm at the part where MC is a slave about to be sold to some army. When does this fucking get good (if at all)? These names, women are all literate... men illiterate.. the BAD prose... and I mean retard pros is distracting. I have read mistborn and I liked it. This so far is going backwards in quality. I thought the opening magic fight scene was stupid. It's literally mistborn all over again. People like this shit? I can't continue. MC has a fucking tinkerbell following him around... I shit you not.

>>19984276
definitely drop if you finish the first book and don't like it since the 2nd and 3rd are worse. Probably drop if you don't like it after Kaladin starts getting his squad going.

>>19984287
>squad
The use of modern words like that I always find distracting as well. It's high fantasy and we have "squads"

>>19984225
I'm one of those people that try my best to muscle through a book once I've started it, even if I don't like it. Having said that there are a few things I just can't get around and overt and blatant insults to Christianity is one of them. I really wanted to read the Emberverse series as the premise was interesting, but I just couldn't, it was so ridiculous with forcing the writer's ideology down your throat.

I started rereading I am Legend. Why didn't he masturbate, or have sex with the corpses? He says they're not as hot in the morning, but still.

I finished all 3 Gentleman Bastards. Thoughts? Also when does this bad boy come out?

>>19984450
First one was alright, but the overall plot has been treading water since. Neither a larger plot nor a personal journey to really care all that much about. They're relatively nicely written though.

>>19984499
The first is the best. Nearly a perfect book in n my opinion. I love his writing and he uses word choice that adds to the Italian setting I think. You can tell everythi my in the south has very romantic word use. Then when describing the northern world or names, things take on more of a Germanic. Basically war breaks out over the northern kingdom. I thought Locke's backstory reveal reminded me of Knights of the old republic if you catch my drift.

I enjoyed book 2 more than 3. I found that the theme of focus being Locke and Jean was strong. I did not enjoy our subverting the opening dock scene was where Jean and Locke have the crossbows against 2 other men. It ended up not being as big of a deal as I thought it would. The only thing this one lacked was child flashbacks.

In book 3 what killed it for me was Sabetha. I hate her with a passion and while I enjoyed their theater plot flashback and the Mage stuff, I just wanted her to die. I still hate her. I hope Locke eventually moves on from her. I'm guessing next book since they are broke they enlist in the war.

>>19984450
>Fresh, original and engrossing

I started the first book many many years ago and was turned off by the language. Maybe I should try again some time.

>>19984624
I think germ said that about book 1 and so they put the quote on every book. Yeah personally I think his use of language is the strength

>>19984613
Locke's and Jeans friendship was alright, and yeah I did like some of the language used. But there just wasn't any really compelling drive to the sequels.

And yes, haughty ninja-bitch love interests are the fucking worst. Fucking hell, fantasy authors should stay clear of main character love interests if they don't know what the fuck they're doing.

ok just read Mistborn and it's a strong 7 I guess
+ pleasant to read prose and good pacing
+ vin a qt
+ vin/elend romance UwU
+ inquisitors and the lord emperor are badass and interesting characters
+ satisfying ending

- allomancy / feruchemistry are pretty lame concepts, don't give a shit about these, just give me magic
- the whole heist being completely beyond suspension of disbelief, literally how does the emperor not have a single spy among the skaa
- the skaa being exactly like the nobility, no racial or cultural distinction, or did i just miss it? there has never in reality been a system that enslaved it's own people because it makes 0 sense and the skaa inferiority would be an impossible concept to sell to the nobility

pretty good fantasy book but shan't be reading the sequels

>>19984783
>+ vin/elend romance

>>19984783
I liked allomancy and feruchemy a lot, but the social/political stuff was indeed trash.

>>19984276
>MC has a fucking tinkerbell following him around... I shit you not
I dropped it right there. I have pretty pretty broad taste in books and can repect them even if they're not my style, but Way of Kings was unreadable garbage. It unironically depressed me for a very long time that this was a mainstream hit, my only thinking is that most readers are just animals to be marketed slop to.

Don't finish that behemoth, you could read an entire series of excellent books reading the same word count.

>>19984783
Each book is downhill from there. I posted about how I can't get into Way of a Kings >>19984276. I thought Final Empire was a legit book alone. Honestly the Romance was not that distracting in this one. Also the Mormon shit doesn't annoy me in this one as it pops out in the next books like a sore thumb. The pacing goes to shit after Kelsiers showdown, where the book peaks for me.i thought his arc was good but I just did not enjoy how the book wrapped up beyond this point. I also wish his brother coming back as an inquisitor never happened. It was such a shit Deus ex machina not just for this book but it goes on to annoy you the rest of the series.

>>19984815
I have a higher than average tolerance for anime, so I was able to make it to the end of the second book, but it got so fucking ridiculous it's painful to read. You might as well read one of these >>19982317

>>19984783
>strong 7
Basically an 8

>shan't be reading the sequels

I LOVED THIS BOOK AND I'LL NEVER HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT AGAIN!

What a disconnect.

>>19984783
>- allomancy / feruchemistry are pretty lame concepts, don't give a shit about these, just give me magic
I didn't loved it, but at least he tried to make something different from other authors and didn't failed miserably.
>- the whole heist being completely beyond suspension of disbelief, literally how does the emperor not have a single spy among the skaa
The emperor already knew the position of all the allomancers in the rebellion, so there never was of chance of that woking out in the first place
>- the skaa being exactly like the nobility, no racial or cultural distinction, or did i just miss it?
>Physically they are different because the lord ruler made them that way like the innate shortness, but mixed blood (like Vin or Kelsier) are kinda normal.
Culturally, they have their own language and way of life, it just didn't get explored in the novel. The only one showed is Spook.

Which fantasy book / magic system is the closest to the principles of quantum physics and relativity theory including time dilation, wave function and string theory?

>>19984967
I could maybe tell you if I had any idea of how those work. If I were you, I would settle for any setting where conservation of energy applies to magic.

>>19984783
>+ satisfying ending
This

What are some brave new voices on the SFFG landscape?

>>19984823
>I LOVED THIS BOOK AND I'LL NEVER HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT AGAIN!
>What a disconnect.
You don't have to stick around for the honey of unwashed anuses just because the first 3 books were pretty good. Sometimes it's clear a series has peaked and isn't getting better.

Is the rest of hyperion worth reading if I enjoyed the first book?

>>19985300
It's worth reading the 2nd book just to wrap up the plot, but quality falls off a cliff and gets worse in the later books.

>>19985300
Second book is great (if not as fantastic as the first), then keep degrading in quality. Don't read the endymion books if you're sensitive about disappointments, but compared to a lot of other sci-fi they're still actually pretty good. It's just hard to see that with how much worse they are than the first book in the series.

>>19981978
I have finally decided to write my first fantasy novel. This will be my first one so I know it's not going to be a big hit or anything but I will try my best to write something good.

Anything (other than the basics like character development, conflicts and stakes etc) that I should look out for when writing?

>>19985624
best advice I can give you is to ignore anything to read in this thread

>>19985639
thank you God bless

>>19985263
You disgrace Bakker.

>>19985624
Goes for all genre media, but dialogue will be the heart of your novel. Make your dialogue fucking good and allow it to take a lot of space no matter whether you choose to make it naturalistic or stylistic. Also, for action scenes and whatnot, always try to anchor whatever happens in sensations. Like if a bomb explodes, describe the chest thump of a shockwave, ringing in the ears, face heating as from a slap, eyes tearing from dust and impact etc.

If there's any magic or other fantastical elements in your setting, establish the rules for it early and think long and hard about how it would affect society. Imagine playing a pen an paper RPG with an asshole rules lawyer guy, and think of how he'd abuse the shit you come up with. Then have people in your setting do that thing.

>>19985624
Yeah, go to /wg/ >>19983250

Don't know why you fags keep coming here.

I have a working theory that the phrase
>Something not quite human.
or it's close variation appears in every fantasy novel ever

Sodomizing a non-washed anus
Ripping open it with a curved penis

>>19984794
>I liked allomancy and feruchemy a lot
Why? They're super generic power systems. Manga and superhero comics had been doing shit like that decades before it was even released.

>>19985902
>They're super generic power systems
This isn't that much of a bad thing on its own. If anon likes those systems then he's going to like them even if they've been done to death.

>>19985917
>If anon likes those systems
You can't like things, this is a Bakker general.

wait, holy shit
is the bakker spam purged?

>>19985902
I like how tightly defined (relatively, anyway) the powers are, and how the narration gives a sense of what it looks and feels like to use them. The results of the powers isn't anything special like you said, but simply that there are clear and consistent limits and combinations, they're refueled externally from a finite source, and I get a get a sense of what it would be like to have them myself puts it above most portrayals of everyday magic imo.

>>19985902
Like, take the steel and iron powers for example. Sure Magneto can warp metal in superhero media, but to what extent he can do it and how it feels like for him to do it hasn't been explained in anything I've seen. But in Mistborn, I can clearly picture having these visible glowing threads in my field of view which I can mentally drag or push on. No lateral or complex movement in either steel or iron, just a push or a pull. I think those constraints add a lot.

>>19985928
Sandersoi only know how to cope, Sandersois will get the rope, Bakker will ruin their hope, /sffg/ are transphobes, which is good.

Mistborn is that 7/10 girl who you chat with sometimes with no personality but because she has an e-girl twitter she has a lot of simps who follow her because they have never interacted with another women before.

>>19985957
>Mistborn is that 7/10 girl
>girl
Stopped reading, interest lost

>>19985946
I've only read Let The Right One In among those. It's bretty gud, but I don't think a non-Swede would have all that much to gain from it. The "kitchen sink realism" that grounds the horror and weird shit may get lost in translation, unless the translator is very good and takes a lot of liberties.

>>19985957
I'd just call it a decent popcorn flick of a book. If you've seen Lucy, that's the movie equivalent.

>>19985957
Mistborn would've been infinitely better if it didn't have a female protagonists and was written in a time where people didn't virtue signal through their works

>>19985981
I don't think its problems is with its virtue signals, it just has a non-exciting plot, bland characters, and bad prose.

>>19985985
because sanderson can't write girls
everything goes with it when he tries

Bakker the King of prose
With powers so sublime
And a phallus like a hose
Best writer in this time

>>19985987
He can do them pretty well when they're high-society and not viewpoint characters

Bakker > (((classics)))

>>19986001
They weren't top tier characters its just that you were surprised they weren't as naive as the main cast as everyone who had some sort of standing in the book was a ridiculous YA stereotype.

Sandersois shitting up the thread

>>19986014
I was thinking of his other books, there are some decent old/cold women characters in them. His viewpoint characters are indeed pretty lame, though Dalinar was alright.

How do you write women? Like men but with vaginas?

>+ pleasant to read prose and good pacing
>+ vin a qt
>+ vin/elend romance UwU
>+ inquisitors and the lord emperor are badass and interesting characters
>+ satisfying ending

>>19986036
you don't write about women because they're not interesting

>>19986036
Like Swedish men.

Brandon Sanderson Containment thread, Post your pozzed discussions their

>>19986063
>>19986063
>>19986063
>>19986063

why are we getting invaded by americans again

>>19986069
It’s a bakkerfag, just report him for spamming.

Whats a good novel written by a Chinese person?

>>19986075
ethnically chinese, from china, or from ancient china chinese

>>19986078
from china because I don't believe good fantasy novels from china exist

>>19986036
You have to first have interacted with women of various social classes, ages and personalities, then write a character based on that knowledge.

>>19986065
If they work in the media field and live in Stockholm, yes. If they're working class, they'll be stoic, unaffected and boring until they get drunk, at which point they'll start enthusiastically sperging out about some strange political views or weird hobbies and interests, and they'll expect you to do the same.

>>19986069
These 'mericans', are they with us right now?

>>19986073
>bakkerfag
Bakker rules supreme, prose so good makes pussy cream, sandi rage and scream, rage so hard he blows steam.

What ereader software do you guys use?

>>19986093
How many more times are you going to keep asking the same question?

>>19984783
>+ vin/elend romance UwU
You are precisely the audience for Sanderfag.

>>19985192
Axiom's End looks good, but I'm worried how diluted the story is with retarded strong womyn vibes.

>>19984783
>UwU
Average sandersoi troon, hail Bakker

>>19986036
Women in real life are basically glorified children, but women in fantasy should be flawless, perfect beings because thats the only place they will ever be so.

>>19986112
Why is the other character called Elend? It literally means misery in German

>>19986164
More like bellend lol llmao

>>19985981
Mistborn was written in the mid-00's back when Sanderson was still publicly expressing his opinion that gays have no place in fantasy so today's virtue signaling can't be the reason it's bad.

>>19986193
Sanderson cope, Bakker is more based

>>19986093
idk whatever my kobo runs

>>19986214
Kindle is for troons, kobo is the true option

>>19981978
What are your honest thoughts on the xianxia/wuxia/xuanhuan genre?

>>19986421
I don't like it.

>>19986421
I like it

Skyrim but book?

>>19983305
mask of the sorcerer

>>19982001
I literally JUST finished this
about to start the next
very strange book

My cat started scratching and ruining my Sanderson books, opened the pages and ripped through them with her claws one by one, when I told her "bad cat" she just told me to cope and seeth, then she started the famous Bakker rules supreme poem as she shits at the book.

>>19986779
>average sanderson reader brings home a 'cat'
>turns put to be a possum
Sounds right

>>19986544
https://www.amazon.com/Infernal-City-Greg-Keyes/dp/0345508017

What are some good strange sffg books like Downward to the Earth?

What are some good fantasy books with substance? All of the ones I try are some variation of this;

>So the league of wizards fought the dragon king along with the elf archers and there were also DWARVES and magic items and member elves?? Also they fought ORCS that served the DRAGON KING and there were heroes who FOUGHT them all day

I've almost given up on fantasy and just decided to stick with scifi

>>19982001
I haven't found one yet. Gets better with every read.

How do I get a physical copy of the great ordeal without spending a fortune? Also has bakker ever written a better chapter than the one where the survivor commutes with the eye?

>>19987433
Communes*

There really needs more sff romance book with male protagonists

>>19987444
Write one ya gaylord

>>19987447
I don't write

I need more strong but realistic women like Adare and Felisin.

>>19987455
but also romance, right?

>>19986093
Whatever was the first one that showed up on the app store

>>19987444
>>19987457
Stop shitting up the thread already, fag.

>>19987461
stop acting like such an american
don't bother replying to me you shitposter, instead go start a discussion about literally anything cause the only person shitting this place up is you

>>19987461
Just ignore the shitposter. It will go away once it realizes it didn't get any attention.

>>19987455
I read this when I was 15 and thought it was kinda lame. Does it get better?

>>19987444
nice trips
also
>male protagonists
Anon, it's 2022, males are out of season, books are written by girls for girls, especially anything involving romance.

Should I read the book series of The Expanse?
I stopped watching once the ring became activated

What would be a good fantasy book about a much stronger empire invading a neighbouring kingdom?

>>19982324
ngl that does sound pretty cringe in an edgy way.

>>19987860
Tigana, but it's two great empires double teaming one small land Poland style

How the FUCK do sci fi writers handle both story crafting (plot, prose, character arcs, dialogue) and getting a good handle on science (from physics to chemistry to biology and more)? I’d love to write sci fi but it sounds like a lot of work.

>>19987960
In my experience most hard sci fi authors are not very good at the former

>>19987962
Even Poul Anderson? I think he’s a great writer but I’ve only read his fantasy so far. I know he is sometimes called a hard sci fi author.

>>19987959
Nice, I am in mood a double penetration if you get what I mean.

>>19987401
Tigana is pretty good. It's about the good and bad sides of patriotism and love, and handles the subjects with a decent amount of maturity.

>>19987960
>>19987963
Like anon said, most sci-fi authors who do the science part well are terrible at characters and dialogue. Vernor Vinge is one strong exception, he writes strong characters that drive the plot and has a great grasp of the science as well. Not that he doesn't step away from it, just that he knows when he does and is very consistent about it.

>>19988001
are there books out there with two writers like, one does big concept internal events, overarching politics and history
and another fills in the more interpersonal relationship stuff, character dialogue, personal motivation
like how manga's would have a writer and an artist

>>19988006
I'm sure there are, but none I know of to be like that. I imagine you'll find it more often in film scripts?

Trying to decide if I want to read Lies of Locke Lamora or the black company

>>19987963
Poul Anderson wrote wonderfully human characters, his women are even authentically frustrating!
It takes him a lot longer than most authors to build his stories and flesh out those characters, but he's got this thing where as soon as he's done it takes a single senetence to snap the entire story into perspective.

>>19988101
I've never read locke lamora so I'm talking out my ass but it looks obvious that all it's got going for it is an exotic name. Read the Black Company and you won't regret it!

>>19987121
I'm a huge TES lorefag and love reading everything I can about the world but I can never finish this fucking book. I've tried two or three times. It sucks.

>>19988247
>It sucks.
I read the 36 lessons of vivec in-game, I have painstakingly arranged by hand over a dozen full bookshelves in modded morrowind.
Are you telling me reading this actual book is more painful and less rewarding than agonizing over book placement and getting sucked in only for a story to end in 6 pages?

>>19988259
>Are you telling me reading this actual book is more painful and less rewarding than agonizing over book placement and getting sucked in only for a story to end in 6 pages?
Yes.

>>19988263
That is fucking embarrassing (for the author).

>>19987963
For me, it was the "everyone has to have sex with everybody" plot line within the HARD SCI-FI thriller involving a ship that cannot stop accelerating, that made me not bother with more of his stories.

>>19988294
Normies are like that though, if you throw a small assemblage of men and women together on an eternal flight locked in confined spaces then it's going to become a lord of the flies orgy parody.

>finished The Culture series
Im going to miss it

>>19988298
I'm well aware. It's just amusing how all these big sci-fi stories and authors tend to force sex so awkwardly within their books. Although I'd say zero-g underage sex while quoting Newton is probably at the top of my list.

>>19988332
Wasn’t it also a product of the time and the audience’s desires? Even Gene Wolfe has a lot of “sexist” portrayals of damsels and sexy women, according to some people, but they just brush it off as “he was doing fan service.”

>>19988334
I think the "free love" and incest themes from the big authors were/are jews being jews.

>>19988332
He is writing a HARD sci fi story, the whole point of that is to be ve faithful to what we know of reality.
Putting in all that effort just to write the crew as inhuman autists would have ruined the story even more surely than sex.
You should try his Starfarers, it's a very similar premise but not taken to ridiculous ends, the ship stops, they reach their goal, they do their thing, they come back home.
Yeah it's still got some of the sex, but it doesn't go too far and take over the story.

>>19988334
I disregard most of that SJW complaining nonsense, but Wolfe did write women in a pretty shitty way.

>>19988320
Is it good?

>>19987444
Books appealing to men are barely allowed anymore, even when only broaching palatable topics like generic violence/journeys. Masculine romance (I.e. win then fuck hot babez) is not allowed to be published unless there is lots of self-flagellation by the man or the woman is in utter control.

Novels like Conan or Flashman could never be published today. They could be self published, but nobody will be able to find them because of all the shit published there, and it will most likely be bad anyway - lacking an editor.

>>19988294
>>19988332
i also found that a bit weird when reading Tau Zero, it's a piece of the setting that didn't feel as logical or plausible when i read it, and it didn't feel like it was needed either. although it didn't really distract from the rest of the story, i didn't mind it too much. in The Forever War there's something similar

>>19988355
examples? from what i've read i can only think of that peasant girl that kinda wants the MC to fuck her in The Knight, but even that it's not really bad writing, just a particular thing where each character are what they are

>>19988432
>examples?
The murderous incest-bitch and the surgically modified bimbo that Severian rapes in BOTNS

>>19988422
Freelance editing will likely improve greatly as self-publishing becomes more popular. Remember to leave comments to the author on any self pub you buy to bring this change about quicker. Publishing houses have to go.

>>19988455
>Publishing houses have to go.
More like white women. You can trace any social cancer back to their over entitled roots; social media, affirmative action, advertising etc. Men just hunch their shoulders and go along with it.

>>19988474
Publishers are relatively easier to get rid of than white women though.

Is...is this a joke? Who the fuck recommended this to me? The prose is on the level of other self-published stuff like RPO. And the amount of wish fulfillment gives isekai authors a run for their money.

>>19988455
> Publishing houses have to go.
And end up with a system like the what the japanese have where the have high school level education NEETS writing garbage for other manchildren?

>>19988530
I had the same reaction. No idea how it can be so well regarded.

>>19988537
You're going to end up with that either way with self-publishing. At least with a shift to freelance editing you make professional editing more accessible and theoretically raise the overall quality of the shit we get. Publishers can stick around for the top percentile books I guess but as long as they remain the gatekeepers to fiction as they are now all we'll ever get is more virtue signaling trash to appeal to #booktok or what the fuck ever.

>>19988537
So all the romance novels they used to have in grocery stores were self published? Fucking neck yourself boomer.

>>19988530
It’s so fucking bad. I don’t see why people jack off to it so much

I’m enjoying this so far

Any good? I just put it on my kindle but haven’t read much of it yet (got another book I'm reading).

>>19981978
Huh, it seems my most recent book write-up was deleted from the thread for some reason. To be seen if it was because of that book in particular or not.

This can't be true guys, oh no
>>>/tv/164452327
>>>/tv/164452327
We should do something

>>19988768
Can you fuck off back to >>>/tv/ already. How many more times are you going to keep doing this shit?

>>19988768
We should cancel that fat fuck

>>19988780
What are you mean? this is my first time posting in this general
People are upset ok? even more than you, bitter

>>19988809
We're ambivalent at best about Tokien here and don't care at all what Netflix gets up to trollcasting niggers for social media mentions. Honestly if you've been watching Tolkien films after LotR you deserve what you get.

>>19988825
Fuck you

>>19988855
Don’t be mad no one is falling for your bait. Just fuck off already and go back to /tv/.

>>19984204
It's atrocious, super repetitive, every single POV change it does a reminder of whats been happening, and the POV changes a lot.

>>19988768
Tolkien is officially pozzed

>>19989085
...and that's a good thing.

>>19989114
Elves will be blacked... and that's a good thing

>>19989085
Tolkien is autistic literature

>>19988422
Imagine being this out of touch with reality and having such a retarded victim complex on top of it too.

>>19985928
>>19985940
You have those exact levels of constraints in loads of fantasy stories, even waaaay before Sanderson. Why the fuck do you clowns seriously act like this is something different or noteworthy? Do you seriously not read anything but the most generic casual mainstream shit ever? Using a specific medium or materiel that's attached to a specific set of powers is like one of the most typical styles of power system and has been for ages.

>>19989143
Nothing he said was wrong. What's your malfunction?

>>19989209
Literally everything he said was wrong, factually. Stop being a retard.

>>19989209
Imagine being so delusional you think garbage not selling is the result of some conspiracy where certain imaginary elements "don't allow" certain things to be made, when the garbage simply doesn't sell even if published, and there's loads of it still that is being published, but idiots like you just aren't aware of it because - surprise surprise - it's not popular, i.e. selling.

Conan is a Simp, he exists to help women, he is a mommy's boy, he likes attention from women, he goes around simping and making women happy.

>>19989307
Everyone knows
Conan blows
A Simp for hoes
He licks toes

>>19989316
Cope and seethe

>>19986421
It is great, however in china any creativity is stiffled by communists, chinese author can basically write what is approved and allowed.
In the west western authors are incapable of writing genuine xanxia. There many reasons, mostly is because they are simply too liberal and almost always bring western (liberal) cultural ideas into it, others just try to copy it without understanding what xanxia and wuxia actually is.

>>19989253
This is demonstrably untrue. The big 4 publishers literally have a role that combs through submissions to get rid of any "problematic" content.
t. attorney who works with publishers

>>19989457
Just write non-problematic content, problem solved.

>>19982001
Book of the Long Sun was much better, in my opinion. Haven't got the the final trilogy, yet. I'll report on that when I'm done.

>>19989464
>Just write non-problematic content, problem solved.
I'd rather write about what I think is important and truthful rather than censor myself. There is a massive audience out there tired of the rehashed, politically-infused tripe new authors are putting out currently. Sorry, trannybro.

>>19989473
Then don't get published, fax and logic.

>>19989476
>Then don't get published
I'm not specifically speaking about my own work. I'm talking about only reading "classic" fiction now because modern fiction is repetitive and preachy.
>fax and logic.
You're losing this culture war. Normies are tired of you trannies trying to force shit down people's throats. The backlash will be swift and all-encompassing.

>>19989485
>culture war
Left wings destroyed successfully.

>>19989495
kek. Bretty good pilot there. Any context?

>>19989496
>context?
Fax and logic finally destroyed the left wing.

Still reading Sword of Shannara, where are my Shannara bros at?

>>19989536
Two things happened: I grew out of being a teenager and then the television show came into existence.

>>19989550
Televisions are pozzed, good thing I'm not a teenager that watches TV.

>>19989571
Thinking that a tv is pozzed is pozzed thinking.
You choose what gets put on the tv, if you cannot watch a tv without seeing pozzed shit then that is a problem with your deeper subconscious values and/or impulse control, an inability to resist the shallow mainstream programming.

>>19989583
>You choose what gets put on the tv
Untrue. The big 4 TV producers literally have a role that combs through shows to get rid of any "problematic" content.
t. attorney who works with producers

>>19989583
>Thinking that a tv is pozzed is pozzed thinking is pozzed thinking.

>>19989583
Ignore the shitposters already. It's been at this for several threads now.

>>19989592
It never ends, everyone is out pozzing the other, its a cycle that never ends.

>>19989590
>Untrue.
You don't have to plug your tv into the broadcast reception boxes, you can hook it up to a computer and a hard drive.
But taking the time and effort to screen and curate your own collection would be work wouldn't it? And what zoomer can be expected to do work when there is an instant corporate option available for a few shekels?

>>19989590
>t. attorney who works with producers
kek, are you memeing or are you actually an attorneybro?

>>19989606
It is like that because there are non whites in this world. If the world was white (+honorary) none of this would be happening.

>>19989615
That's why we must Un-Pozz Evropa.

>>19989607
>But taking the time and effort to screen and curate your own collection would be work wouldn't it?
What in name of fuck are you even talking about? curate? curate fucking what? 95% of all tv these days is pozzed, the other 5% is simply dumb irrelevant shit that is slightly pozzed by design to not be so obvious but still affect people.

>>19989625
Stop whatever you are doing and go study molecular biology, virusology etc, then go and creatice a bio weapon that will wipe all those that need wiping out.
it is not sf, it is reality, chinese showed us it can be done.

>>19989626
>tv these days
Well that's your problem.
I'm watching frasier, last thing on was gilligans island and up next is.. konosuba then the outer limits then Passengers (the movie), I skipped ahead to look just for you.

https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1645761835360.webm

>>19989652
Why are you still replying to the shitposter? All he does is shit up the thread. Just ignore him.

>>19989664
Because he hasn't mentioned He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named-In-Polite-Company yet.

>>19989664
>shitposter
shitposter? I think he has a valid criticism. Just because his views may be "problematic" for you, doesn't mean he's shit-posting. I think both anons have a good point. There's so much media out there that you can definitely curate your own viewing material. However, there's not a lot of non-political, good content being produced right now, and that is also a problem.

>>19989625
Oh yes, please, I weep every day for what Europe is becoming

>>19989652
All pozzed shit.

>>19989717
Nigger what? That's the shit my racist honky ass grew up on! It's not pozzed if it produces sexist, racist pigs! One of my greatest joys is that Alan Alda is an idol to a man whose moral and political leanings would make him red in the face with anger =P

>>19989652
>tv isnt pozzed!
>...well, it isn't if you avoid all contemporary television!

>>19989769
The fact that you have to specify "contemporary" defeats your implied argument.

>>19989777
The fact that you still replying to the shitposter is astounding.

>>19989726
What are you even talking about? every produced of those shows is a jew or connected to jews, the networks themselves are jewish. It is all pozzed.

>>19989781
Some people are idiots, just hope that he will ignore the shitposter eventually.

>>19989209
He's from /v/ and believes he's right because he says so. That's the sumtotal of newfag ideology.

>>19989783
>konosuba was made by the jews
Anon... I think you've had too much 4chan.

>>19989793
Of you know, he’s a shitposter shitting up the thread.

>>19989781
This is a serious discussion. Every tv show is pozzed, everytv show that still airs today (or is available on netflix, prime etc) is pozzed, if they weren't pozzed, if they were real non pozzed, promoting white values, white people and white culture, they would not be available on these networks.

>>19989781
Because your posts are so poignant and full of meaning.

>>19989798
You don't understand the machine, read 1984 then come back.
What was progressive yesterday is toxic and _ist today, and what is progressive today will be problematic tomorrow.
That's the problem with it, so you can enjoy media that is only a few years out of date and regardless of what garbage values it tries to make you swallow, the whole thing will fail because you won't have today's programming and you'll be canceled anyway.
This puts you out of the box to think for yourself, and then you can examine it all with an objective critical eye and see the propaganda contained within for what it is.

>>19989777
Not at all, tv is what is on television currently. As soon as you suggested connecting a television set to the internet, reducing it to the status of a monitor, and curating your shows from a library consisting of everything that has ever been broadcast, you conceded the argument.

>>19989816
>tv is what is on television
Fixed that for you.
Thanks for your concession.
Good day to you!

>>19987857
They’re okay. Compared to the tv show they obviously flesh the characters out a bit more but they’re not exactly artfully written.

>>19989813
>This puts you out of the box to think for yourself, and then you can examine it all with an objective critical eye
Yes and the result of that is... it is all pozzed. Watching tv is pozzed. Even owning a tv is just dumb (buy nice expensive tv, get latest subscriptions, all in uhd 8k, all programmes is just kike shit)

>>19989851
Again, all of these things you see as problems are only an issue if (You) lack impulse control and/or a spine to decide your own thoughts.

>>19989864
So because I have a spine and control my impulses it's ok to watch kike tv? Of course I won't get affected if I watch it but most importantly is why would I or anyone else who see though this kike propaganda and brainwashing choose to watch this trash?

>>19989902
Know thy enemy.
When you you look away, burn books and forget, the past only comes to repeat itself.

>>19989905
once you know your enemy you will not learn anything from their propaganda. The old shows did not explicity show degeneracy, it was more subtle, the new shows are completely openly pozzed, there really is nothing to watch, new or old.

>>19989941
You are boring, I'm going to watch some arrested development.

The Pozzed machine rules supreme
but Bakkerchads have a plan
To defeat the pozz with a clever scheme
and make everyone a Bakker fan

>>19981978
Is there any good epic dark fantasy?

>>19990226
Prince of Nothing by King Bakker

>>19990266
I said good

Is there a novel equivalent to pic related?

>>19990273
You don't understand the creative power of Bakker.

>>19990288
Wouldn't it essentially be an isekai? Titus goes through time because of Sin, doesn't he? Maybe Three Hearts and Three Lions because it's got a similar feel and inspired TTRPGs and RPGs so much it could be said to have RPG archetypes. I can't help any more than that.

>>19990299
>black hair marries blonde
pozzed

>>19990305
Tidus and his dad were just a part of Sin's dreams IIRC and were brought into true existence for the first time when he was stranded on the beach.

can i get a rec on a fantasy that has monsters, strange races, and wild magic

Goddamn it bros, I wish I was the asian Tolkien

>>19990288
Sanderson said it was one of his biggest inspirations. Way of Kings has some stuff various people have said are similar.

>>19990288
>>19990330
>>19990305
Tidus Groans

>>19990299
where do the dinduir as seen in the amazon tv show come in?

>>19990402
TV shows are pozzed, Amazon are pozzed, that's why I invest in Kobo stocks.

>>19990441
Kobo is owned by Rakuten.
Rakuten is a Japanese company.
Therefore, you are a weeb.

>>19990458
better a weeb than an americ*m

>>19990458
Why are you replying to the spamming shitposter? Just ignore him already.

>>19990463
Cope

>>19990458
I will sell my stocks immediately, I do not want to be a weeb troon.

>>19990463
Why do you keep repeating yourself knowing it will change nothing? Are you stupid?

Bakker made this General more based in my opinion, now only the non-pozzed posters remain and its a good time, no troons pozzing up the thread.

Why does the fantasy genre suck so much compared to other genres?

>>19990593
More pozzed writers.

How to be non-pozzed?

>>19989237
Incorrect.

>>19990612
only write about hard men with hard cocks

>>19988995
Bummer. Oh well. Do you have any recommendations for a book or does with a similar theme?

>>19990612
Those who aren't instinctively do so.
If you have to ask, you already are and nothing can be done for you.

>>19990659
This is the truth.
Once pozzed always pozzed, It's genetics.

Hard Bakkerchads out at Earwa field
With shiny helms and big ass shields
When they purge they do foul deeds
Atrocities straight outta the black seeds

They charge the sandersois with speed
Sandersois see and for help they plead
Bakkerchads how them hell and black seed
Penetrate them till their tight ass bleed

What are some good fantasy books with substance? All of the ones I try are some variation of this;

>So the league of wizards fought the dragon king along with the elf archers and there were also DWARVES and magic items and member elves?? Also they fought ORCS that served the DRAGON KING and there were heroes who FOUGHT them all day

I've almost given up on fantasy and just decided to stick with scifi

>>19990735
Prince Of Nothing by Bakker

>>19990735
What does 'substance' mean to you?

>>19990740
How about something good?

>>19990735
Have you considered reading fantasy that has basically nothing of which you've mentioned in it? There's tons of it. You've presented an extremely reductive view that only covers a sliver of fantasy.

>>19990754
Bakker is good, sublime even. You just don't understand the creative power of Bakker.

>>19990762
That would require him to actually read and not just make a low-effort post.

Any good books with a weird setting like morrowind or planescape torment?

Why is 90% of the Lord of the Rings pointless? That 90% is all either just describing landscapes in painstaking detail, or going over pointless scenes like "oh no mr frodo dont go over the ledge oh no mr frodo he's gone oh he's still here oh what is it you said mr frodo there's nothing down there? oh well come up oh no wind oh you're fine though thank god you're fine mr frodo"

>>19990782
>Why is 90% of the Lord of the Rings pointless?
Try reading it and not skim it.

>>19990782
Its written as comfort food for women, that's why they are obsessed with it.

>>19990789
>XDDD if you dont like book u must SKIM IT unless it book ME NOT LIKE

New thread
>>19990801

>>19990797
Yes, so how about you actually read it next time.

>>19990767
>Bakker is good, sublime even.
Read more novels before saying something retarded.

>>19990782
>>19990797
>Didn't read the books
Why are you on /lit/?

>>19983305
The Kane Chronicles

>>19990835
Why are any of us here?

>>19990924
I actually want to discuss books.

>>19990782
I got a protip. Read it and not shitpost next time.

The worst thing about idiots? They don’t know they’re stupid.

>>19988530
Absolute drivel. I can't believe I finished it. My brain had folded in on itself 8 times by the end.