/lit/ - Literature

>what is russian literature

>>19693934
This book will look horrendous once finished. It's like a disposable version.
It's doable, yes, especially if your main language is a romance one.

I read German, french and English, but it's not as fun reading books in my non native language. It's also slower. Learning how concepts like movement, knowing, and passive voice work between the three languages is fun.

>>19693954
>German, french and English
How long did it take you to learn german?

I read in portuguese, englsh, spanish and french.
I'm considering to learn italian because it's a neo-latin laguage too, but I don't have interesting in too many italian authors. I would prefer to learn russian. but it's too hard.

>>19693934
>English, German, French
Yes.
>Spanish or Italian
No. These have like a couple of good books each, then the distribution falls off rapidly.
Latin is far more important than either Spanish or Italian. I'd put Latin third after English and French. Then German. The fifth most important language is a toss-up between Russian and Greek.

>>19693934
I'd say that russian is more important than italian
>>19694060
Fuck you faggot

>>19693934
I can speak and read spanish like its nothing after 3-4 years of learning as an adult. It takes daily practice and input, i think its possible to achieve that post in all languages you mentioned.
However, how in gods name is italian worth learning for its litterature aside from Dante, since he doesn't work in english?
Also you do not need spanish to read, enjoy and study El Quixote, you can read that in translation.
The only true languages you need to be truly /lit/ is french and english.

>>19694060
100% honest and true take.
However, that shouldnt dissuade you from learning a language if you want to do it for the litterature, it enhances your experience a thousandfold

>>19694060
>These have like a couple of good books each
More like there are only a couple of good books that you known in those languages
>>19694081
>Dante is all the Italian language has
>you can study DQ in translation bro xD
Kek imagine being this retarded and ignorant yet confident

>>19694060
Greek is far more important than English and god forbid, Fr*nch.

>>19694081
>how in gods name is italian worth learning for its litterature
Michelstaedter alone is a sufficient argument for learning Italian. La persuasione e la rettorica is one of the most beautiful work ever written

>>19694230
Coping gayreek. Modern greek is meaningless gobbledygook, and basically, you're a crypto-turk

Wrong. Most books are written in some Indian or Persian languages. They are also better students and more humble students of books than Reddit has become since 2008 over 5 million books have been sodomized by ideology on Reddit_chan. Get out.

>>19694222
>good books that you known in those languages
I'm a native spanish speaker so I know that spanish literature is severely underrated and I'm currently learning italian so can you give me recs?

>>19693934
You just mentioned two languages and a half: German; Spanish; English (German/Latin creole).

>>19693934
>Spanish
>Italian
>But not Russian
dropped

>>19694295
Dude, please.

>>19694256
>>19694222
Dante's metre doesn't work in english, simple as that.
You can read prose works in translation and experience their beauty, but not poetry, and dante needs the rhythm

>>19694409
How about you give recs of this severely underrated literature you talk about

>>19694409
This is a good one for an overview

>>19694654
La saga fuga de J/B
Tiempo de silencio
La sombra del ciprés es alargada
Volverás a Región
Terra Nostra
Porque parece mentira, la verdad nunca se sabe

All of them are masterpieces

>>19694657
Thank you!

>>19694060
Why would you put Greek so low? I don't see how German is more important than Greek unless you're planning to read philosophical works primarily.

>>19694657
Do you like Verga?

>>19694654

ever heard of Russia you fucking smooth brain?Literally the best language for literature.

Taking Latin all four years in high school was unironically the best thing I've done for my language learning. It forces you to have a comprehensive understanding of grammatical cases and apply them in a way that simply studying English grammar could never achieve, IMO. Learning French was a breeze afterwards, and Russian was easy as well as it simply felt like a switch in vocabulary and sentence structure given my base for inflected languages. German I have struggled with a bit due to vocabulary but I plan to learn more as I will be attending grad school in Austria (hopefully). I can understand nearly 90% of Italian (essentially Latin in ablative), 60% of Spanish, 40% of French (prior to learning) and less so Portuguese. If you love the Romance languages, learn Latin at least to a base level. Everything will become easier for you!

>>19694793
I'm native portuguese, i'm learning english, i want to learn the romance languages, do you know same order to learn the romance languages? You think it's better learn latin before any other romance language?

>>19693934
Quick question for any German speaker: in the following excerpt, what does "Aufnahmen" mean in view of the context?

"Nach Einmündung des Lacantun erhält er bald darauf von rechts den mehrere kleine Seen durchströmenden Rio Mactan (el Chorro), in dessen Darstellung ich den Aufnahmen meines Freundes Don J******; gefolgt bin. Er passiert dann beim Durchbruch durch eine kleine Kalkgebirgskette eine Stromschnelle, nimmt später von rechts den teil- weise schiffbaren Rio Yaxchilan auf und bildet dann in enger Thalschlucht eine Anzahl mächtiger Stromschnellen, welche ein unübersteigliches Hemmnis für die Schiffahrt sind. ..."

>>19693952
>It's like a disposable version
Is this a thing in france?
How much is the edition?

>>19694713
me encanta

>>19694896
If you are native Portuguese, I think you would pick up Latin quickly. It will give you a greater understanding of your own language's foundational structure, and help you pick up Romance languages quickly. That said, I think you could spend as little as a month or two on Latin to reap a lot of the rewards given that you're natively Romance. Good luck

>>19695107
Disposable editions also exist in the US, they call them 'mass marker paperbacks'. The paper is like those in cheap and ow-quality coloring books. I have never seen such thing in my country.

>>19694750
>posting the virginpleb spanish chart
kek

German is my native language and English is fairly easy to become fluent in so I'm doing alright just going through the respective catalogues of notable works in their original form (German literature remains my favourite). Sometimes I regret taking Latin instead of French in school. I'm not that interested in ancient prose and translation was a fairly slow, analytical matter, almost like studying a natural science.
I've learned Japanese only to find out I don't like most Japanese literature even without, to borrow a computer science term, lossy translation, so that has been more vidya relevant than lit. I think you are undervaluing Russian, though. I would put it above Spanish or Italian.

>>19694750
Patrician
>>19695187
Pleb

>>19695198
kek, lil plebbie got FILTERED

>>19695206
>2666, a literal best seller for the pseud crowd
>filtering anyone
lmao

>>19694937
He was using material (could be video tapes, drawings or other visual data) from his friend as reference to depict the Rio Mactan.

>>19694657
Lima - Paradiso
Góngora - Soledades
Elizondo - Farabeuf
Benet - Volverás a región
Yáñez - Al filo del agua
Sada - Porque parece mentira la verdad nunca se sabe
Del Paso - Noticias del Imperio
Vicens - El libro vacío
Donoso - El obsceno pájaro de la noche
Rojas - La Celestina
Roa Bastos - Yo el supremo
Huidobro - Altazor
Saer - El entenado
Fernandez - Museo de la novela de la eterna
Vila-Matas - Suicidios Ejemplares

>>19695215
>B-But bestsellers can't be great lit!!11!!
kek what a PLEB
Besides
I'm 100% sure you haven't even read half of Nabby's oeuvre
Stop using his likeness as support for your dumbass opinions
get fukd

>>19695238

Was meant for >>19694654

>>19695238
Half-based
You must be 50+ yrs old, I'm sure

>>19694060
>These have like a couple of good books each, then the distribution falls off rapidly.
Wrong, it’s more like you don’t know any of those languages so you only are aware of the more famous translated literary works even though both languages have a vast amount of great authors that haven’t been translated. Of course to you English is the most important because it’s the one you know.
You are right about Latin though.

>>19695239
>2666
>anything but babby's first long spanish book
seethe more pleb lmao your anger makes me stronger

>>19695254
>gives famous great books
>you must be old! xD
Truly telling

>>19695254
I'm not lmao. I just studied literature here.

>>19695144
Maybe there's something lost in translation here but mass market paperbacks aren't meant to be disposable

>>19695215
oprah is literally the only reason people care about bolaño lmao

>>19695370
Oprah had to expose Amerimutts to Bolaño lmao.

>>19695381
Kek she said it was like Harry Potter, that's why all the pleb readers bought it.

>>19693934
English is all you need to know. English translates French perfectly and the entire corpus of German Philosophy has solid translations.

You're simply wasting your time trying to learn the languages first and then doing the reading.

>>19695395
She did? That's hilarious.

>>19695297
Really? That shit is meant to be read more than once? It's basically toilet paper. I bought one and I take good care of books but these editions always look like 10 years happened to them after I'm finished.

>>19695398
Massive cope

>>19695398
>the entire corpus of German Philosophy has solid translations.
95% of anglophone philosophy still cannot distinguish Being from being.

>>19695267
Most of those books are famous and carried either by Cátedra or Alfaguara wtf are you on lmao.

>>19695475
Thats what I'm saying

>>19695107
This one is €35. It's not marketed as disposable, of course, but the quality is so low you'll end up with a useless book. And yes, most paperbacks are awful in France.
The Pléiade edition - sewn, hardcover, 4 volumes - costs €272

>>19695527
Ah fuck
I was hoping Le Livre de poche would be an ok publisher
Are they like oxford or vintage paperback tier or is it more wordsworth tier?

>>19693934
1. German
2. French
3. English
4. Latin
5. Greek
6. Russian

>>19695423
>>19695434
That's obviously bait, retards

>>19695537
Le livre de poche's paper is more or less Oxford tier. A little softer. Folio has a slightly better paper. They are not Wordsworth tier.

>>19695537
I don't know wordsworth books. Livre de Poche is close to those black penguin editions.

>>19695562
>>19695578
Ok thanks
That sounds ok, they're pretty affordable imo
Can't wait to buy my first french books, still got a few years of learning left though

>>19693934
More or less. In German I can only read short texts, long texts will tire me because I need to look up in the dictionary too much.

>>19695395
>>19695406
Incredible to see how rumors grow here

>>19693954
Please respond >>19694027

>Spanish or Italian
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

>>19693946
>>19694060
>>19694070
>>19694538
>>19694759
>>19695193
t. butthurt russians
russian literature is mostly worthless trite and their prose is never good enough to warrant learning the language. its literally midwit: the literature.

now compare that to german or french. constructions that are untranslatable, very unique philosophy and poetry. what is there in russia? no philosophy beyond juvenile nihilism/tradlarping and no unique poetry as they all stole from the french anyway.
>>19695398
English absolutely does not translate ISoLT perfectly. Surely you jest.

>>19694657
>Italian poetry
>no Giusti
I'm disappointed by this chart. Giusti's verses are so far the most eloquent and insightful satire I've ever read, pretty much proving that the Clown World's essence is timeless and was a thing 150 years ago just as much as it is nowadays.

>>19697885
seek help
Russian literature has some of the best insights into the human mind

>>19697970
none of the "insights" russian literature provides are new to anybody above the age of 20. literally prove me wrong.

>>19693934
I speak German and Spanish but still couldn't be bothered to read said books in their original languages. A very bad habit, I'm sure, but I simply stick to English.

>>19697676
Based.

>>19698211
cringe

>>19693934
As a German native I can tell you that learning was obviously very easy and learning on the basis of having both German and English is also rather simple. These languages are very similar, I can't say the same about Italian and Spanish, actually. Which is funny considering that Spanish and Italian should be closer to French but to a West Germanic speaker French just seems like that cousin who speaks a little funny (Dutch being your little brother with a stutter).

>>19693934
Why are french books so ugly and always paperbacked?

>>19700104
not sure, I kind of like them

>>19693934
>no Russian

>>19694034
>too hard
>russian
Lmfao

>>19693952
>>19693934
I was about to point out how stupid it is to put a glued bound paperback in a slipcase.

>>19700205
Not him, but I've learned decent Japanese (for non-weeb reasons) and Russian is kicking my ass.

>>19693934
I speak English and French out of those. Once you learn one of the romance languages, the others are pretty straightforward. I tried Spanish for a little bit and it went quite smoothly. The tough part is German.

>>19700104
You mean why have they not fallen for the gaudy book jacket design meme?
French books are the best
t. french hater normally

>>19700238
Russian is hard to get to a basic conversational level at, its depressing

>>19693934
>Live in a Westernized, Eurocentic civilization that influences all aspects of culture, heritage, and tradition
>Thinks all books '''worth reading''' are coincidentally aligned within the Western canon

Anon, surely you don't believe this? That the billions of people living in China, India, etc. don't have their own epics of literature on par with many of our own? They are simply harder to us to get into because of differences in cultural background. Even the simple example of Russian literature shows how rich literature traditions outside our own can be.

>>19700409
no, not really, I mean their cover and overall design. I don't really get the point of book jackets, even the books that have them usually look better without it, my country's books don't usually have it either.
>>19700123
This one is fine, I mean more like the design you also see in the english/american uh penguin ones? where they have the logo and title under and just an image above, every french book I try to buy here always looks like that.

>>19694060
>Latin is far more important than either Spanish or Italian
>not realizing it's literally one language
Also, kys

>>19701459
Only from the perspective of Latin, and not from that of Spanish or Italian: comprehension goes only from Latin to neo-Latin and not vice versa, to handicap of neo Latins.

It's English , German, Latin, ancient Greek actually

>>19693934
I'm learning all of the languages you mentioned in addition to Latin at once. You need serious dedication. It's at least 4-5 hours of work a day. None of the languages are difficult in terms of syntax; but the hard part is reading innumerable books to build up the native-speaker tier vocabulary (20 thousand words).

>>19700714
>I don't really get the point of book jackets
it prevents the corners from being ruined by clashes, etc. I like them.

>>19701484
It works both ways, actually. They're mutually intelligible to a degree. It's not like if you know Latin you know automatically know all the Latin languages. Not how it works.

>>19694060
Okay dude, if that's not a shitpost answer this question:
What other language in the world has:
1) Dante
2) Petrarca
3) Boccaccio
4) Boiardo
5) Ariosto
6) Tasso
7) Leopardi
8) Manzoni
9) D'Annunzio
10) Verga
11) Svevo
12) Montale
13) Ungaretti
14) Eco
15) Calvino
?
+ all the untranslated stuff you don't know
+ all the philosophy you haven't read

Find a language that stands the comparison, I'll wait.
It's not about quantity, it's about quality.
And persistence throughout seven centuries.

>>19693934
If you think Italian is more important in terms of literature than Greek, Russian, Chinese, & Sanskrit combined, then you are a fucking idiot.

>>19701577
Do you like Verga?

>>19701663
Personally I don't, but he's as important to European literature as Zola is. They did the exact same thing.

>>19701654
>Russian
>can only mention Tolstoy, Dostoevsky and Chekhov
You're just retarded

>>19701654
Italian is just as important as English. Probably a bit more since Dante is superior to Shakespeare.

>>19701508
I never said that, that's an overly literal reading. Spanish is just am invertebrate Latin tho: Latin without the conjugational spine.

>>19701676
>Personally I don't
Ah, so you're heterosexual, good to know. Only faggots like Verga.

>>19701577
Are italians able to read these authors without much difficulty?

>>19701577
>>19701677
Dubs of truth

>>19701688
From D'Annunzio onwards it's easy, the ones before require a bit of practice.

>>19701688
Yes, if they're educated. But Latin they cannot read.

>>19693934
to me it seems unwise to learn all these languages with the sole purpose of consuming literature... maybe select the one with the literature work that you find most intriguing...

I also dont understand your assertion about 99% of books worth reading being in one of those 5 languages... In greece our modern literature and history is usually overlooked in favor of the philosophical works and the homeric epics of the ancient world. Regardless, there are many renowned greek literary figures in greece during the 19th and 20th centuries. Just because that work isnt fetishized by autistic retards on 4chan doesnt mean its not worth reading

idk where you're from but if you're an anglo who feels disillusioned due to being monolingual then go learn a language and see how it goes. if not, try to explore the literature in your native language

it's only in todays internet world where people think that they've left no stone unturned and that genuinely stimulating experiences are hidden behind linguistic barriers and located in faraway places

>>19701685
>comprehension goes only from Latin to neo-Latin and not vice versa
You quite literally said that.

>>19701698
I mean even a Spaniard can read Dante in the raw with some practice, so it must be far easier for an actual Italian.

>>19701728
The noun declensional divide makes it almost impossible, outside some very brief phrases and sentences.

>>19701747
Maybe, but it's the same for Latin. You would still need to understand each individual languages's conjugations.

>>19700442
based

>>19701735
I'm Mexican and I can read Dante with the help of a dictionary.

>>19701765
But did you learn Italian? I'm Mexican as well and I'm trying to learn Italian after failing miserably with french

>>19697970
Such as?

t. can read Russinan but have never read a book in russian

>>19701777
I know a bit of Italian. Enough to read texts, anyway. Italian is easier than French but both should be a walk in the park for a Spanish speaker. Unless you were trying to gain fluency in spoken French, I don't see what your issue was.

>>19700442
Obviously 99.99% percent is hyperbole midwit, point is can you name a language outside of europe that contends with these?

>>19701765
Exactly

>>19701796
Lack of perceptual skills it seems, for him, as French is just Spanish with a hyper specialized pronunciation.

>>19702153
>>19701796
>Lack of perceptual skills it seems
>I don't see what your issue was.

I took three years of french back in high school. I was young and stupid so I didn't care about learning that much. Now I'm trying to learn Italian because it is phonetically similar to Spanish (Italian only has four phonemes which are not present in Spanish). I'll try with french once I'm able to read Italian books.

>>19700104
they also get dirty as fuck and the spine literally falls apart even if you're careful.

>>19693934
>Spanish
>Italian
Latin, Greek, and Russian are much more important to your education

>>19703081
Italian is more important to a Western man than Russian. Italian literature is severely underrated, Russian lit is a bit overrated.

>>19694937
I think it refers to photography (literally "photos" since its plural). I'm interested in the second sentence however.
>Er passiert dann beim Durchbruch durch eine kleine Kalkgebirgskette eine Stromschnelle
How is this grammatical? Shouldn't there at least be a comma between Kalgebirgskette and eine Stromschnelle?

>>19703081
You have no idea what you're talking about. Italian literature is the foundation upon which modern European literature exists.

>>19701577
Only Dante of those would require knowing italian to really say you have read it

>>19705765
Most of them are poets so... not really.

>>19694937
>Aufnahme - recording

>>19701686
You know anglos won't get this right?

>>19701577
>pic related inexplicably absent

>>19706929
Yes. That makes it funnier.