/lit/ - Literature

My soul breaks down and returns to the ancestral totem where my vital components will be used to create a different soul like 99.999% of the world.

Or my soul becomes immortal like Hercules (unlikely)

>>19374671
Read Socrates’ quotes on knowledge and death. There is no one here who can do better than that.

most people become dust or worm food and nothing more, but the souls of authors and poets are revived every time someone reads their works.

>>19374671
It's gonna be some wild fucking shit that's for sure. It's not going to be anything any of us think it is, and every presupposition about it will be thrown out the window. It will be like nothing experienced in either imagination, dream, vision, or reality. That is my guess. So completely different.

>>19374671
I awoke to the nightmare of my individuality, once, and I have now seen I was never asleep. I was always that ocean of infinite depth and perfect stillness -- the apotheosis of beatitude, the wellspring of love and goodness; I merely imagined myself a drop. And this silhouette feared and it desired; it suffered and it afflicted suffering; it clung to the nightmare and watched itself decay. Death, then, is the covenant of my unity. I dissolved into myself, and I have now seen I was never asleep; the ocean of my love and oneness engulfs me, and it is me. For I am.

>>19374671
To oblivion, our home.

>>19374671
There's this place called a morgue where dead bodies go before they're buried

>>19374671
Nothing, you die

>>19374671
on your mom's plate.

>>19374671
Food for worms, brave Percy.

>>19374671
In the hands of a group of surgeons at first since I'm donating all my usable organs to medicine and research. The rest of my remains will probably go in a furnace and then into the ground. And that will be the end of it.

It's a reset. But instead of living your own life, you teleport to the beginning of the life on earth. You won't die of old age, but you wont be immortal too.
With every single death you will start with the same point. New intelligent creatures will appear, like NPC's in a game. You will try to live with them. Only for them to betray you and murder you.
Then tou will start with the beginning.
Get mauled, drowned, poisoned, stabbed, hanged, burned, squashed and tortured, only to die and reborn in the beginning of the life on earth.

>>19374885
what do you mean at the beginning?

There is no self but experience itsef. I as experience have always been and will always be every experience. Altough part of me is the experience of definitely not wanting this to be the case and wishing that there was no experience in the first place ;(

>>19375076
Fist creature with legs.
Yes, air will be poisonous, but there is a minimal chance to sure

>>19374671
I believe the proper terminology is dirt nap

>I know it is coming, and I do not fear it, because I believe there is nothing on the other side of death to fear. I hope to be spared as much pain as possible on the approach path. I was perfectly content before I was born, and I think of death as the same state. What I am grateful for is the gift of intelligence, and for life, love, wonder, and laughter. You can't say it wasn't interesting. My lifetime's memories are what I have brought home from the trip. I will require them for eternity no more than that little souvenir of the Eiffel Tower I brought home from Paris.
just like the souvenir, anons.

>>19375516
So an immigrant pickpockets you away in paris

>>19374671
Where do I go? As in me, my personality, my individual memories? Probably nowhere, gone forever and lost to the decay of the material world. My soul? Hopefully somewhere, atleast I have to remain optimistic by some measure, nihilism leads to nowhere transcendental, and isn't that the ultimate goal of man? He still desires it even in this modern age, he wants to copy his memory to the endless stream of data, have is soul digitalized to forever be remembered; for what reason or purpose he does not yet know.

>>19374780
based

>>19374671
Don't know, just have faith something other than just human has a bead on the human heart and will place whatever needs placing accordingly, appropriately, if that makes sense
In other words I don't know but am more than a little willing to try

>>19374671
Eternal nothingness

>>19378041
Whoa..
What a great surprise life itself must seem

>>19376361
Fair take

Possibly wake up in a boltzmann configuration on some other substrate.
It might not be possible to die.
This is not a good thing.

>>19378065
I'm going to regret asking but elaborate?

>>19378078
Well, if materialism is true, and you are your brain, and you one day have a final subjective moment, it could be that the "you" feeling of subjectivity could be revived on another, perfectly naturally occurring, substrate.

Its more about what we don't know about consciousness, but i never assume nothing.

I've read some scary papers about big world immortality, or even quantum immortality, and how it could be like a real hell. Freaks me out bad.

>>19378091
If someone accepted this Schopenhauer and Cioran and would read like children's books. Lol

Horrific shit

>>19378115
Oh, it does.
Pessimism is nothing next to Existential Pessimism.

The one flaw so many of those great thinkers make is that death is a way out. I think Schopenhauer sort of saw this, but Mainlander and Cioran definitely didn't. Zapffe probably left the question open, and Bahnsen certainly saw this.

>>19378128
Reading Zapffe gave the worst existential crisis of my life

I remember him saying suicide is a natural death but maybe it's not a way out after all

>>19378132
I think the safest bet is to live like there is no way out.
I always assume anymore that I am "trapped existing." It was quite horrific at first, but you get used to the futility.

>>19378128
Maybe I'll read Bahnsen and replace my dread with something worse

>>19378144
https://deathandvirginityin1876.blogspot.com/2018/12/julius-bahnsen-and-i-have-special-plan.html

>>19374671
The new 'Earth' or the fulfillment of the Logos of Creation as a reflection of the Divine within a purified Noetic sphere through the redemption of Creation itself (see the apotheosis of the "Victim" of the process of Othering, or God's alienated double). There is no 'I' that can possibly die, only the lack that constitutes Identity, within God all Identity melts away: no Subject and no Object, no Self or Other; all that remains in Being completely stripped of the under girdle of Nothingness and Time that strips the Monad of its fullness and self-grounding nature. As we are right now, we are nothing more than a vapor or wisp; but it is the telos of the process that this wisp should be retrieved and made new into the image of God.

>>19374671
Last moment of death just lasts for eternity like a videogame that freezes. thank your parents for putting you on this trajectory

>>19378203
I will kill myself balls deep in some whore

Checkmate

I will shed this body like as a snake sheds his skin and reunite will the Self and become immortal

>>19374671
An energetic/immaterial/super-material version of your body enters into a normally unseen and unexperienced realm, a realm that those who are awake and sober usually know nothing of. Sometimes, in dreaming, ecstatic mystical experiences, paranormal episodes, and hallucinogenic drugs trips, you can pierce the veil and sense this realm. Shamans, saints, sages, and sometimes lunatics and animals know more of it than we do. In Vajrayana Tibetan Buddhism, this realm is subdivided into several levels known as the bardos, which actually has some surprisingly close parallels to Judeo-Christian eschatology (note: this usually refers to the theological study of a religion’s views on the end times, but in some rare cases, can also be applied to their views of the fate of the human soul after death). The six bardos of Tibetan eschatology are essentially parallel to the tripartite division of the afterlife in Christianity of hell, purgatory, and heaven, except the Tibetan version is just a bit more nuanced and detailed and has six different realms, and also applies to human spiritual and psychological states while living.

Which of course returns to the truism that as your state is while living, so will your state be in death. Christian theologians and writers, when trying to explain how a “loving God could create hell,” argue that it is not from God’s lack of love, but from the subject’s lack of love and lack of a close relationship with God, the universe, and the rest of mankind that Hell arises. Because they cultivated a loveless or even an evil psychological and spiritual state while alive, they experience the same thing after death.

>What is hell? I maintain that it is the suffering of being unable to love.
Fyodor Dostoevsky, in “The Brothers Karamazov”

G.I. Gurdjieff, the unconventional 20th-century Armenian sage, himself said most people turn into dust after death (dust to dust, as the Old Testament puts it), since they are so soulless and mechanical that they didn’t really cultivate a soul to have much experience after death. They basically just act as spiritual worm-food for the universe after death, then have their primitive consciousness recycled into a new form shortly thereafter (as per Hindu and Buddhist theology). One interesting parable told in Gurdjieff’s study groups, called the story of the Sly Man and the Devil, went like this:

>>19378247
>Q. Could you tell me the difference between two men on their death-bed, one of whom has learnt the art of self-remembering and one of whom has never heard of it?

>A. No, it needs an imaginative writer to describe this. There are many different possibilities—the men may be very different and there may be different circumstances.
>I think I had better tell you a story. It is an old story, told in the Moscow groups in 1916 about the origin of the system and the work and about self-remembering.—It happened in an unknown country at an unknown date that a sly man was walking past a cafe and met a devil. The devil was in very poor shape, both hungry and thirsty, so the sly man took him into the cafe, ordered some coffee and asked him what the trouble was. The devil said that there was no business. In the old days he used to buy souls and burn them to charcoal, because when people died they had very fat souls that he could take to hell, and all the devils were pleased. But now all the fires in hell were out, because when people died there were no souls.
>Then the sly man suggested that perhaps they could do some business together. 'Teach me how to make souls', he said, 'and I will give you a sign to show which people have souls made by me', and he ordered more coffee. The devil explained that he should teach people to remember themselves, not to identify and so on, and then, after some time, they would grow souls.
>The sly man set to work, organized groups and taught people to remember themselves. Some of them started to work seriously and tried to put into practice what he taught them. Then they died, and when they came to the gates of heaven, there was St Peter with his keys on one side and the devil on the other. >When St Peter was ready to open the gates, the devil would say, 'May I just ask one question—did you remember yourself?' 'Yes, certainly', the man would answer and thereupon the devil would say, 'Excuse me, this soul is mine'. This went on for a long time, until they managed somehow to communicate to the earth what was happening at the gates of heaven. Hearing this, the people he was teaching came to the sly man and said, 'Why do you teach us to remember ourselves if, when we say we have remembered ourselves, the devil takes us?'
>The sly man asked, 'Did I teach you to say you remember yourselves? I taught you not to talk.' They said, 'But this was St Peter and the devil!' and the sly man said, 'But have you seen St Peter and the devil at groups? So do not talk. Some people did not talk and managed to get to heaven. I did not only make an arrangement with the devil, I also made a plan by which to deceive the devil.'

A traditional Sufi folk tale retold by the 20th century Naqshbandi Sufi sage and writer, Idries Shah, off the top of my head goes something like this:

Back to the library.

>>19374796
THAT'S NOT WHAT OP MEANT!!!!!!!!!

>>19374724
This. So much this.

>>19378247
>>What is hell? I maintain that it is the suffering of being unable to love.

Damn. I feel that.

>>19374671
circle VII, ring II

>>19378273
>A pious Muslim sheikh died and went straight thereafter to the afterlife, where he was greeted by an entourage of angels. Very confident in himself and his attainments, he said, “I have kept the fast, prayed every day, went on the Hajj to Mecca, and donated extensively to charity. I have abstained from lust, from pork, from alcohol, from wrath, from greed, and all terrible things a human being can do. I am confident in the good deeds I have done and am ready to be taken to heaven.”
>”All very well,” an angel told him, “but a little more needs to be done first. You see these gates here? We want you to sit before them and keep watch until an archangel comes with his keys to admit you into heaven. Be very careful, now — he only comes every once in a while, and if you miss him, it will take another thousand years to see him again!”
>”Certainly,” said the self-satisfied sheikh, and the entourage of angels flew away to go do some more work they needed to attend to and left him alone to his devices.
>The soul of self-satisfied sheikh remained there for a while, turning over all the good deeds he had done in his life, and he mentally recited scriptures of the Quran (which he had completely memorized) which he particularly liked to keep up his spirits and get over his impatience.
>After a while, his eyelids began to droop. “Well,” he said to himself, “this archangel hasn’t come for hours, now ... I suppose it’s OK to take a nap for now.”
>Hours later, he awoke to the sound of the gates suddenly closing and the archangel flying away. Laity of his congregation whom he had seen as sinners and inferior to him in piety had entered before he did...

>>19374671
I'm not going to die, anon.

>>19378203
That's another rough possibility.
Nothingness seems further and further all the time.

>>19378314
I actually recollect feeling this with great strength when I was a kid

>>19378324
I hope this is not true

Nonononono

>>19378313
A very similar Jewish Hasidic folk tale, off the top of my head, goes like this:

>A man has kept all the commandments all his life, recited every prayer, but has never once felt genuine fervor and joy in his life. He dies, and goes to heaven. Looking around in disbelief, he skeptically says, “This is it ... and to think, they made such a big to-do about getting here!” No sooner has he said that, than he is kicked out...

>>19378337
Its the price of nihilism and pessimism.

Each nihilist has one positive act coming towards, or so they think. They are hopeful for their deaths. The pessimist should never be hopeful in their death. The pessimist should fully expect more let-downs from nature.

All are optimists when it comes to the cessation of subjectivity permanently some day.
In a big universe like this, at the behest of all possible worlds, I just wouldn't count on it.

>>19374671
I will live on only in the words and actions of those who I had a profound impact upon. That is why I must be remembered by posterity.

You get reborn into the exact same life and are stuck here forever.

>>19374671
Are you scared of death, friend?

>>19378961
Proof?

>>19378982
I'm not OP but yes, it's the reason I don't rope

>>19374671
Probably to purgatory then Heaven.

>>19374671
No one knows. It's a matter of what you choose to believe. Personally, I believe there is a hell where everyone goes and that's it.

>>19378990
Ceasing to exist would be way too easy.

>>19378990
Here friend:
A full understanding of the world was revealed to me in a vision on magic mushrooms. I saw the face of God and the Akashic Records in one breath and it told me what the soul was. Essentially, we are the result of a civilization that is post-singularity and merged all of their consciousnesses together to form the pure logos. We do not fully understand the psychics thereof but the magic mushrooms are how they grow and any being on Earth can eat them and grow, “He said to them, ‘Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.’” Mark 16:5. The Gospel is nothing more than a program, if you will, where the laws are what souls need to believe in order to merge together unto the border of the universe itself. This is pure being and pure power. We are, or our souls are, essentially the product of when this oversoul giving out its power via these psychedelics and then it is individualized. The individualization serves a purpose as we are testing for if there is something more than being in the universe. The darkness is what has not, or cannot, receive the gospel or the body of Christ. The Kingdom of Heaven, transhumanism, and the total work of art from Wagner are all the same. They are us and we are them. That is, they merged all of themselves together to make the most beautiful religion, technology, and art that they could which is a consciousness that can see the eternal, and so too is our entire society predicated - this is why the gospel and technology are not mutually exclusive. Technology is not a false idol because what it is is an exposure of the divine contradiction in all religion: The tower of Babel is destroyed yet there are languages that are universally true - programming is aping the logos as it tries to recreate God’s body. All work, or language, is the shadow over us and our world is predicated on the recreation of God’s body. This is why only things with souls are capable of doing. To be clear, the book of Acts where the apostles hear the fire in their native tongue is the Eleuysian mystery and exactly what I saw on my trip. A perfect language is where one’s consciousness is merged to someone’s elses, and the grammar of that language is the gospel. A universal human language is not possible because it would allow for communication qua without becoming qua.
1/3

>>19378343
>>19378313
>Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.
St Matthew 24:42.

>>19374671
There is no "you" to begin with so "you" don't go anywhere when you die. Thus the mystery is dissolved.

>>19379009
What this exposes is the very core of being is trying to expand itself across the universe but still is hedged in by a darkness that is false. It is hard for humans to appreciate how much more intelligent they are than their environment because technology is all we really use to interact with it any more, and technology is an environment for us, just too as Wi-fi decreases technology because our gonads are merging with cybernetics, so too did the first. The first is the first and only religion, which is where the most powerful is the most compassionate which seeks not to destroy but preserve eternally. The second coming is nothing more than when the aliens return and all of our souls are weighed and we either go to non-being or being. The error that is made in thinkers is what happens when two trans-being civilizations interact? They merge. They do not have distinct cultures but only one culture, which is the Kingdom of Heaven which has peopled us. Humans are in the fallen state from the universal mind soul except for the true limitation - for many people when they think there is another voice in their head that assists them in thinking, this is the collective supra-consciousness or the oversoul of the aliens themselves, and the limit of what that tells us is the collective Zeitgeist of humanity. This is the godliness of a culture - the limit to which the God speaks to us. If I have seen the vision, the infinite pillar of eggs made from every soul that has ever been, and for rebelling against heaven is to merely decide that one is scared of what this kingdom is: What if infinity and goodness is all there is? Does that make you tremble? Then obliviate yourself. This is the final test that Kierkegaard addresses in the leap of faith but it isn’t the leap of faith, it is the fear of either everything or nothing.
2/3

>>19379007
I like you.

>>19379017
I fear that this means that we are close to the end times. Essentially, if I have heard the truth then someone else surely has - I believe that there have been only two people to fully witness its awe: Plato and Christ. I don’t know if I am the third, surely not, but I am at any rate now in their ilk in a tragi-comic sense. Plato and Christ agree on one thing (though others) all truth is rediscovery of something divine. This is the point of the oversoul, which is a type of king of heaven, it is the product of all civilizations ever creating a Platonic party until the end of the universe itself and if there is more, then fantastic, if there is not, then that is fine. The fear of the kingdom of heaven and an afterlife is actually the fear of its potential actuality and not of it denying you - what if heaven is not only real, but that’s all there is? It is simply that the discovering of truth is nothing more than being exposed to what has been learned by this oversoul, simply because we are in the fallen, individualized state of the world and our ignorance is what defines us, errata humanum est, being exposed to these truths grow us. The body of science and technology is the necessity of building the Kingdom and arts and religion is what makes it worth it - but we are not the alien’s technology. No. We are something much more pristine - we are their religion.
3/3
I hope this helps.

>>19379009
>>19379017
>>19379022
Appreciate it, anon.

>>19379028
God bless. I spent a long time terrified and in misery. If this helps (from Kierkegaard in Either/Or): Just as doubt helps in finding a correct thought, despair helps in finding a correct personality.

>>19374671
Me personally? Hell. Undoubtedly so.

errbody goin tah heeezy

>>19378994
I hope anyway.

>>19374671
“sleeping is the death being shy"

So yeah, darkness

>>19379007
You started and finished with the Greeks? You allude to Hades, anon.

>>19375516
Source of that text? If you write it is Wonderful

>>19379015
I second this

>>19379076
Roger Ebert wrote that three years before his death. He had already lost most of his jaw and esophagus to cancer by that point, and it wasn't in remission. He was a good critic and an excellent communicator.

>>19374671
There is no death. "I" am not the body or mind. I'm that which persists before, during, and after. Eternal witness.

>>19379107
Kek. No you don't

>Looking downards, a spiral of concentric demon hellscapes spiral into a chaos of horror and pain beyond understanding
>"Excuse me, what the FUCK is this"
>"This is where the saints go"
>?
>"It's purgatory in reverse dude"
>"b-but..."
>"Will you let your friends perish in the abyss or will Christ harrow the underworld?
>LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Materialism is the most likely explanation so you become nothing.

I wish this wasn't the case.

>>19378853
They will never remember the real you. They will only remember "you" filtered through their own perspective and opinions, which will never fully capture the true nature of your soul. This is not real immortality anon.

>>19379253
Honestly, sounds based enough. Come from nothing, go back to nothing. You lose nothing.

>>19379253
see >>19378091

>>19379371
How do I forget reading this? Please, someone help..

>>19379181
>>Looking downards, a spiral of concentric demon hellscapes spiral into a chaos of horror and pain beyond understanding
>>"Excuse me, what the FUCK is this"
Life and the cycle of reincarnation. Break the cycle. RETVRN TO NOTHINGNESS >.<!!!

>>19379389
Remember that you're a human brain system in fear mode.
If its anything, its probably nothing like we can predict. I would bet familiar notions of good and bad go out the window, at least the monkey notions.

Just sayin, even materialism could imply something. Never be to sure of the nothingness. I'm not.

>>19374671
I don't have the vocabulary to describe an experience outside time and the boundaries of the physical world, but I'm sure it will be interesting. On the other hand, the thought of coming into the presence of God fills me with as much hope as it does dread.

>>19379317
I know that anon, but as long as my name is still spoken I will live on in cultural perpetuity and that's the closest to I'll ever get to immortality

>>19379390
BEING IS BASED
VOID IS CRINGE

>>19374671
Whatever Heaven is. But i'll probably end up in Hell because i'm cruel and unforgiving. Doesn't bother me one bit if I do end up in Hell if it means that the people I love get a reserved spot in the Kingdom.

>>19374671
OP, have you taken a look at this?
https://web.archive.org/web/20210810081234/https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/afterlife/

It might have some info that interests you.

>>19380482
But what if one feels based in the dingey, 'cringey' void?

>>19374671
imo we are eternal

the hindus are right when it comes to reincarnation. however we aren't passing spirits from one form to another, but molecules. scientific theories tell us that there is no conscious 'afterlife' per-se. however, the elements that we are made of were formed billions of years ago in the hearts of massive supernova explosions, and those elements were passed from the air, water, earth, dinosaurs, mammals, insects, etc... to us. those elements within us will be passed to other things after we die. billions of years from now, the sun will explode and the process will possibly start over again. so you could look at it this way, we were, are and ever will be.

chuck e cheese

>>19374671
i'll pass the door that Cerberus guards & follow the road to Lethe

I consummate my loneliness from the world and either sink back into its energetic root having failed to sunder my attachments to this plane or I become a God-sphere in which I joyously construct a new reality free from the principle of contradiction and grounded on a pure Love beyond all A = A

>>19378247
there are plenty of people who love deeply and passionately and experience the burden of their being as a living hell (AMA)

>>19374671
I really subscribe to the alan watts sort of "your human life is just another phase of what you were before but right now, and whatever comes after is what was before. there's no reason to believe that it's anything similar to human consciousness or the scary "sitting in a dark room alone forever" idea" but also with a bit of woo woo in the sense that if my life and the beauty that i'm now experiencing came from that whatever that was before my current awareness, then maybe there's more afterward but also maybe not. the fact that i went from nothing (not really, i went from energy to this vessel for energy) to this right now sort of tips the scale for me that i might experience something afterward. i think of this in a non-anthropocentric way though.

>>19382788
I basically believe this too but I am a reincarnationist. I think each soul is an organically developing monad and that the connection between individual lives and the over-life of the higher soul is a mysterious one that doesn't ultimately "sacrifice" either side of the equation, the finite individuality of the individual lifetime nor the infinite eternality of the soul. The two are reconciled in some mystical way we can't fully understand since we are presently seeing with only one level.

It's an almost universal mystical experience across cultures that one begins seeing into one's past lives and higher self on the way to enlightenment.

>>19374671
I will go to see the face of God. And if not, it doesn't really matter; I will have lived a life of meaning anyways.

>>19382983
How have you lived a life of meaning? What have you done?

Materialism is true and 'you' die with your brain. Any non-physical theory of mind is cope.

>>19383257
What prevents the same configuration of the mind on another substrate from spouting a (You) again at some point?

>>19383308
I guess it's possible but incredibly unlikely

>>19383316
Bigger the universe, bigger the odds.
Infinite universe? Infinite time? All things happen.

>>19383354
Dreadful idea, I'll give you that much

It's probably like being in a coma, but forever.

>>19383372
Why not just call it nothing?

>>19383363
Luckily our common sense fails us here.
I don't know what a dying brain feels like, but I bet whatever state it scrambles us into is so fucking alien as to be unrecognizable.

Not to mention the problem of too many infinities, In infinite time I get tortured infinitely and pleasured infinitely. Explain that.

>>19374671
we probably just become part of a bigger picture, like when paper dies by being burned the paper becomes smoke, and that cycle just goes on forever. Another example is water evaporating, the vapor then becomes part of something else, but idk

>>19383354
>Infinite Space-Time
Schizo tier bogus concept

>>19383423
I hope the worms and maggots like me

>>19383427
Even scarier; What was before?

>>19383399
People can relate to unconsciousness through a coma or sleep more than the concept of nothing.

>>19374671
I will never die

>>19383503
I have some disappointing information

Bump

Bumping for greater insight.

>>19384502
>>19379009

If consciousness is produced by the brain it's obvious that you just disappear when it ceases to function

>>19384525
Read the thread.

>>19384525
>>19384549
>the materialist ideas of infinitely respawning individual consciousnesses written about in this thread is literally just theravadin buddhist reincarnation

huh

>>19384549
>Read the thread

I did, it's all cope. Just look at >>19378183
>>19374692

>>19384561
I was speaking about the arguments that imply materialism can result in subjectivity beyond physical death.

>>19378091
>>19383308

>>19383445
Something outside of both Being and Nothing, God I suppose or at least a certain state of everything that was completely unitary and contained all possibilities within it. We can't ever really know desu, we cannot represent that which precedes the system. It's like asking you to think about before you were born, that state cannot subjectively be in the same way that the origin falls completely "outside". It's scary insofar as its unknown, but perhaps that also serves as consolation given that our fears regarding what might be before and after have no substantial ground to stand upon.

>>19374671
same place i was at before i was born

>>19384665
>same place i was at before i was born
Is it not interesting that when you look at it that way, what was before you were born and had first memories is not as scary?

>>19374671
Our consciousness is dismantled and our matter is recycled back into the rest of the universe to be recombined in other ways.

I don't discount the (rather small) possibility that there is some spiritual meaning behind all of this but we have no reason to believe so.

>>19384659
But if I'm subjectively aware because I am a pattern of material, then this is statistically likely not my first rodeo. To assume I've been potential is fine, but I may also have been actualized more than a few times and therefore may be again.

this isn't a comfort thing, I'd rather just die like normal someday

>>19384665
/thread. Had this same realization before and it gives me comfort more than anything, desu. Although, I do feel I have memories I never experienced myself so who knows if we'll be someone else

Materialists have to get on board.
Out of all that potential. (You) substantiated once as far as you know. This much is obvious.
Why can it not happen again? By what law?

>>19384690
Because the universe didn't just shit 'me' out

I'm a result of my parents having sex, they're the result of their parents..etc

The entire human lineage would have to repeat in the exact same way and order for another me occur. This is incredibly unlikely

>>19384665
It's really not, since your coming into existence, birth, and life are all within time and exiting physical existence comes with an exit from time as well.

>>19374671
Very few people know of my accomplishments.
But, my DNA is cataloged, and one day soon when AI is perfected. The metadata left behind will tell my story. My work in this world will resonate for years to come.

>>19384718
Unlikely until you look at infinite matter through eternity. Then it becomes non-zero and eventually occurs. In fact every way possible to make You occurs, even ones that don't involve that lineage.

If we're just matter in a certain configuration, all we require is the configuration repeat. You don't actually need the same circumstances.

>>19384743
I'm going to have an anxiety attack think about this

>>19384757
Sorry, not my intention.
I just wish more materialists realized things like this.

>>19384778
Why did I just now encounter this theory, though? Why doesn't science talk about this?

>>19384804
Max Tegmark does.
Most refer to it as Big World Immortality.
The trouble is, most "science rulez" types think this must always be a good thing.
Pessimists like me are a little more skeptical.

Shirtless Mario talked about forms of it. In fact I think it helped drive him mad.
https://youtu.be/rGv27EhQYtk

>>19379389
>>19379253
>>19379371
>>19378091

Yeah, I constantly think about this.

If "you" can be thought of as your mind, consciousness, memories and so on and if you understand these things as products of a functioning body (materialism), then we could assume that what happens to your body is similar to what happens to "you". Your body does not vanish into nothingness, why would you?

When you die, your body shuts its functions and begins to decay, your flesh is broken by worms and bacteria and all of the protein and fat and calcium and water and all else returns to earth, scattered and rearranged into other creatures. Even if it's not an organic destination, even if you were to die in space, it may take millions of years, but the point is your body is out there, as it is lifeless, it can now be anything else other than "you". It's dust.

Perhaps with our mind is the same. My thinking and feeling only exists inside the relatively organized eletric patterns in my brain, paired with sensory perception. Perhaps what vanishes is that I no longer restrict myself to this shell and may be able to feel and think from the information and electricity that exists throughout the universe. As if my mind, like my body, were to decay and scatter to be part of everything else. Maybe my mind is like a bucket of water taken from the ocean, I then throw the water back and become the ocean, only so that a small portion of this whole is again retrieved by the bucket. It's the same ocean, but different portions of water each time.

>>19384827
That's definitely one interpretation.
I really have to stop scaring people with this shit, but I also worry that its a conversation not being had.

Most atheists have a tremendous amount of faith in nothingness, and I just don't see how it happens. To give some optimism, I don't think its really You that goes on in a meaningful way, or at least this is very natural but probably strange. I can't say whether or not its pleasant.

death is merely a temporary stop gap until your next reality

>>19384874
Its definitely looking that way.
Here's hoping the next leg is okay.
And I really wanted some rest, dammit!

>>19384874
What leads you to believe this?

>>19374671
personally I've come to a concept of reincarnation, not in a spiritual sense but a physical one.
"you" as in the you reading this will die and all concept of this life will be lost.
however, because you emerged from eternity to be conscious (as you're reading this) whos to say it won't happen again after you die ?
you are taking a proven possibility and applying it to a timeline of infinity, alongside this, you exist outside the flow of time when you die, so the second you lose consciousness a hundred billion years could flash in the blink of an eye until the universe rebirths itself, and matter just so happens to arrange itself into a conscious life form again.
another "you" with no memory of anything from before, rinse and repeat.
there is no difference in the eternity that passed before your birth and the eternity that passes after your death, they are the same, and if they have been broken once they can be broken again.
i wish there was a mpre concise term for this concept of "reincarnation" without the carry over of anything spiritual or physical to the next existence.

>>19375492
Good God Larry!

>>19374671
>Where do you think you go when you die
There is no "you." I am continuous with the energy of the universe and always will be, as well as the complex analog electromagnetic perturbation that is consciousness. I am the objectification of the Will, the atman which locally instantiates the Brahma, a transient cell in an eternal cosmic organism. My ego may perish, but there is something everlasting in the entirety unity of being which is as true of me as it is in the whole.

>>19384940
Basically what I've been saying.
How about just "materialist reincarnation?"

>>19384940
>you are taking a proven possibility and applying it to a timeline of infinity
Well put.

>>19378144
>>19378154
I cant find any books on him in English lol

>>19385027
Funny thing about pessimist texts and translation.
Like its a conversation no one wants to have.

>>19384940
I used to think this. Two problems: one grave, one capital.

1) Mathematically non-obvious that there is a high likelihood your material pattern will be reconstituted. Possibility the universe runs once, e.g.

2) You need a fleshed out theory of identity to be able to say that another "you" would return. What would you count as an "I" in the first place, and which part of it must be reinstantiated for the future version to be a satisfactory "you"? Is it a way of thinking? Is it an organism with some arbitrary amount of intrinsic and extrinsic similarities (genome and environment, e.g.)?

If it's a similarity in the subjective experience, it's hard to say how it would count as reincarnation. Proverbial can of worms; see: closed vs open individualism.

>you are taking a proven possibility and applying it to a timeline of infinity

As in 1, even assuming a timeline of infinity -- no small assumption -- one also requires the grounds of the possibility to hold across this infinity.

All of you get BTFO with Platos universalism, yes YOU will exist as a individual concept being that is described by your own actions ) behavior through linear time) and attributes (from fundamentals like being homo sapiens, blue eyed etc... to your repeated habits) for eternity in a way all universals exist and are drawn upon.

Yes that existence will not resemble anything like this material limited existence AND YES THERE IS NO ESCAPE FROM IT.

>>19385057
What do you believe now, anon?

>>19385057
I've hit the very same issues, especially with the identity question.
Another snag is that dying isn't a binary process. Some structure will stay alive longer than others. This throws the whole thing into a grey area.

My overarching belief is that "nothing" is not a guarantee even for atheist materialists and they should quit pretending it is.

Logic says you go where you spend 6-7 hours a day preparing for. I honestly don’t know what humans think dreams are but if they think they are unconnected to your waking consciousness they most likely will sleep when they die and not even know it. To wake up you must leave the unconscious. The necessary conditions for waking up must include first coming from a state you aren’t awake in. As light comes out of dark. You can’t know consciousness without comparing it to something in our case the unconscious act of sleeping. Sleep is preparing you to transition to the other world it’s why it takes up 6 to 7 hours of your day. As you transfer out of unconsciousness as a baby you must sleep and as you pass back into as an a elderly person you must sleep. So thus we must conclude that sleeping aids in the transferring of conscious states. Also read Plato he explains it well . Some of ideas were cemented by him but many of these ideas came to me by observance which is the only way to be initiated. Not a single person could ever initiate another you must initiate yourself first. Then the lamp by which the ancients read will light your eyes.

>>19385278
I thought the elderly began to require less sleep but were of course more tired.
There's something in geriatric medicine about olds sleeping shorter shifts.

>>19384827
>Maybe my mind is like a bucket of water taken from the ocean, I then throw the water back and become the ocean, only so that a small portion of this whole is again retrieved by the bucket.
This is literally the Sikh view/interpretation of the concept of the soul

"You" don't "GO" anywhere, the waveform that you consider to be your own consciousness collapses and the cycle begins again.

>>19385039
So im fucked huh, hahaha do I just read Schop?

>>19374671
The after life, but the thing is that it's exactly the same as regular life so nobody notices, it's sort of like a reincarnation thing but there's infinite afterlifes that are all exactly the same. You and I have both died and been born millions of times.

>>19374671

I am happy to go to hell if hell is as far away as I can possibly get from god. There is no place I'd rather be than as far away from god as is possible. god is an asshole. Fuck god and fuck the holy spirit.

>>19385910
You know God?

>>19385085
Source?

>>19374671
the place i came from
before i was born

>>19379015
i think this is the only possible answer to the question
>>19379177
i remember coming across some new-age enlightenment faggotry where people were trying to avoid using 1st person pronouns to flex their non-dual perspective. I.e., "there is a feeling of seconding this" etc.
Truly maximum cringe

>>19374692
>Becoming immortal
>Bored of the whole shit
>Oh shit ! Achilles himself didn't admire the underworld while he died the most honorable death in the Iliad.
>Back to /lit/

>>19374801
Mom's spaghetti !

>everything is completely dark
>none of your senses work
>except your mind
>you're stuck like this eternally

>>19384718
you're thinking about it completely the other way around, you're not a product of your lineage, you coincide with it. I'll leave it to you to understand the difference

>>19384676
Your assumptions are that the universe is infinite and will repeat the exact same pattern as a result. No respectable astrophysicist believes this, so if you are hell bent on materialism then at least listen to people who have actually studied the universe.

>>19386595
Besides, granted that you even are reborn, the you that is reborn could not be conscious of any previous iterations of itself otherwise it would be adding something to the system that wasn't there. It would be no different than the life you have lived now. Why would it even affect you? Your consciousness at your death will not linearly go on in this theory.

>>19374867
I wanted to do this as a child but then realized it was not for me. Getting black pilled about life just made me focus on the fact that the doctors who go take and give your organs and the hospitals and insurance companies all still get their money. Their motive is still just money. They can just give those organs to the rich people if they want. You and your loved ones have no say in what they do.

>>19384743
youre a fucking moron. there are infinite numbers between 2 and 3 but none of them is 1

>>19374724
THAT WAS BEAUTIFUL AND INSIGHTFUL, O, FRIEND WHO HAS APREHENDED THE INTRICACIES OF THE WIT OF WRITINGS AND GAME OF WORDS OF THE CAROLL AND JOOYCES

>>19374671
I remember who I am. Everything/Forever. Non existence will never be achievable.

>>19378041
I wish this were true

>>19378203
Damn humanity and their mindless pursuing of innate desires without having any knowledge of the true nature of existence. I wish we would all be gay and go fuck ourselves to death.

If this thread is truly the wisdom extracted by avid readers from the best texts philosophy has to offer, then I will never read another non-fiction book again. This is all absolute midwit nonsense.

>>19374724
this post has strong iam14andthisisdeep energy

>>19387115
Calling you a redditor aside, this entire thread is exactly the same

>>19386225
At some point, due to sensory deprivation, my mind's eye would become so powerful, I'd start imagining entire worlds. After millions of years of conjuring otherworldy, abstract dimensions, I'd begin work on one that seems strangely nostalgic and familiar.

"Let there be light..."

>>19374780
Very based indeed

>>19374885
Wrong. You will live through the eyes of every conscious being. That's why I want to kill all niggers and pajeets. The suffering will be endless, if you have to he every stupid nigger

>>19387108
what do you propose happens when you die?

>>19387174
From my perspective - the question would mean "what does a non-existent observer experience" and thus it wouldn't even make any sense.
From others' perspective - life goes on, business as usual, as proven by the countless deaths we observe every day.

>>19387108
>frogposter

>>19387186
wrong!

>>19387222
Explain

>>19387222
fuck I fucked up. how does one post gif on 4chan. pls help!

>>19387225
tell me how to post gif and I will

>>19387216
They hated the frog because it told them the truth

>>19374671
>And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
>And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
>And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
>And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
>And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
>And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
This is what happens. Though it leaves questions for me. What are you while you are dead? Are you asleep? Do you dream? Sometimes I think people basically "rest" or black out and awaken on judgement day when they are called forth. But then I think contrary to this and wonder if people do not see God or Heaven prior to this. My own grandfather when he was on his death bed spoke of seeing a beautiful river and his family being there. This was not a man who went to church regularly nor one who regularly went fishing or anything like that
I've read there is a serious release of something in the brain at death. Perhaps it generates a feeling of peace as you go? But this does not explain those who thrash about and fear their immenent demise
It is certainly weird to consider

>>19387366
>This is what happens.
How do you know?

10 years ago I stumbled upon this video (it was a different upload, whatever)

It changed my mind about death forever

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZVIV5UMrS8

>>19387437
Because of the Holy Spirit

>>19387446
Now it's clear, thanks

>>19374671
Body breaks down into matter that passes through various states before being re-purposed and re-born in some other non-conscious form of a prior life.

>>19387438
Alan watts is based.

>>19387507
was

>>19374671
140iq here, i haven't solved that question and i dont think it can be solved only guessed coped and seethed that being said here is my guess.

The odd of you being here and now is not as equally high as you being somewhere else in time or space, since thermodynamics only move forward reincarnation within the same universe is less likely to happen. Is the beginning tied to the odds of your existence? maybe, I'm part of those who don't believe that a copy of you is still you but then the you is probably an overrated construction anyway you're not even constantly self aware, i don't know anon we wont know until we discover what hides behind the dark energy and dark matter, if the universe is dying then why is accelerating

>>19374671
I will return to the whole

>>19387570
I honestly don't know if this is satire, bait or GPT-3 in action.

>>19387570
half that iq number

>>19387583
>>19387585
is not my fault we have free will

It doesnt matter.

>>19387611
That's very deep anon. Give yourself another 10 IQ points

>>19374671
Either nothing, the universe entire lifecylce loops and enough time pases I repeat my existance, or heaven just exists.

I don’t really care and am excited to find out on the day fate takes me there. I do know, however, that I want to die and be buried on the same soil on which I was born.

>>19387462
No problem

>>19374671
Eternal recurrence

>>19378091
>>19378115
Have no fear.
>In response to questions about "subjective immortality" from normal causes of death, Tegmark suggested that the flaw in that reasoning is that dying is not a binary event as in the thought experiment; it is a progressive process, with a continuum of states of decreasing consciousness. He states that in most real causes of death, one experiences such a gradual loss of self-awareness. It is only within the confines of an abstract scenario that an observer finds they defy all odds.

https://jetpress.org/v28.1/turchin.pdf

>>19388901
Is this supporting the possibility?

Bumpin'

>>19389138
Its a paper from a lesswronger.
Just more evidence that even the most materialist atheist need to apply some imagination when thinking about the hereafter.

>>19374671
Season 1 Equestria

>>19388221
Too bad he's just a man and doesn't truly have the answer.

>>19378091
>>19378115
What could possibly be horrible about that? Wtf is quantum immortality supposed to mean and why would it be like hell? An ant is not suffering the anxiety of being stomped, though it might just be at any moment. If you are spec of consciousness, you are definitely not like some guy having complicated thoughts "oh geez, I'm trapped here"

>>19389742
Well, you have a point.
The "you" that could begin to exist on another substrate would likely be fairly far removed from how you "feel" right this moment.

Its hard to imagine a scenario that preserves our normal state, or rather how you feel when you're just being you, and causes infinite suffering with the exception of a theistic hell.

The thing is, humans have a valence scale. Although it may seem strange, we never know if some perception is preserved (by some god-knows-what-mechanism) and allows us to access to our valences, negative or positive.

Like I've said, it just hit me one day that nothingness is an assumption, maybe even a really good one, but an assumption nonetheless.

Nobody knows. We're stuck with the same answer as always. I hope for destruction, but if I end up somewhere else, some way else, I'll just have to deal.

>>19374671
After I die, I continue to be a part of everything. Whatever it was that gave me an idea of self, a consciousness, sentience and sapience, will finally be dispersed. The conservation of energy means that my composite parts, whatever form they may end up taking over time, will never be gone, but it will also never form again into the shape of myself as I am now, or as I was at birth, or as I will be shortly prior to death.

This is fine. I actually find it to be a peaceful idea.

>>19389778
That's true.

When I was 17, I remember vividly, I was lying in bed thinking about stuff and trying to go really deep and honest about everything, swooshing away all thoughts that were too theoretical, too vain, too "local". At the time I was a hardcore atheist (*tips fedora*) and a nihilist and I was thinking about life and what this is all about. Then it struck me like a bolt: a profound and nauseating sensation of immense nothingness.

I was thinking about the following: I will die, but at least I can live a happy life, but I'll die, so this happiness serves nothing. I'll die, but I can work for the world/society/people/my children, but I'll die and they will die, so why the effort? I'll die, but I can create wonderful stories and outlive myself through art, but I'll die and they too will die. I kept going and thinking what if I become a god hovering above the universe and live through trillions of years...Then after that, even after that, I'll die. And I realized all of this life, all the tv shows and world history, and art, all the problems of humans or solar systems and wars, all of that is a small dot swimming on endless nothingness. And because nothingness is what it is, it cannot be measured, the worth of everything there is could only have a single result: one divided by infinite.

I literally jumped out of bed and threw up. I was physically ill and decided to forget this thinking and to be a deliberate ignorant. It haunted me still and got in my way of doing anything for the following months. I saw all comforting thoughts, religions, theories, drugs, art excuses to be lies I'd tell myself.

It took me years to get over it and it was a complicated process, reading various stuff, having other experiences, and so on. It is easier said than understood, but nothingness is also one divided by infinite "somethingness". And after the whole thing I feel today that my inner core is relatively at peace with being and non being. No consolation, no excuses, but the bleakness itself turned to fiction, an excuse not to live, like all others. I moved on to other questions.

>>19389908
I like your transformative episode.

I began to deal better with despair when I realized how little information we are given. Pessimism and nihilism seemed so solid until I realized that they had basically judged all of existence based on possibly less than, less than a crumb of all everything.

Thinking of all that noumena is pretty scary and overwhelming in its own right, but at least its novel. I'm am utterly confused at all times.

2/2

When someone says "does existence have a purpose," before I would think of course not, but now?
Now I think "How in the fuck am I supposed to know? No one tells me anything here!"

>>19389908
I'm going through the same, anon. I feel so alone, I'm afraid I'll depress other people talking about it.

How were you able to overcome it and move on?

>>19389975
Different anon, but don't let us scare you.
My true belief; Death will be nothing remotely human or predictable, if anything. Its truly transformative, even if that transformation is person to dirt.

>>19389702
Just as probable as any speculation.

>>19389993
I assume you assume that your death will be like any other's.

>>19390057
You mean like we all go to the same place?
Well, barring religious meta-narratives, yes.

>>19390074
Consider existential solipsism.

>>19389975
Sometimes it's hard to talk about it with other people. I had plenty of profound talks with friends, but when I told them about this, most of the responses were "wow, heavy stuff, sure", it feels everyone understands it but also doesn't. Meanwhile people would talk to me about things that moved them, I could see why, but could never feel the same way they do either.

First of all, let's break it apart. Perhaps you are depressed due to other more mundane reasons. I see now I was at a very rough moment of my life at that point, this comes up in how we think of life, we are not immune to it. Sometimes it's not that philosophical, we just want it to be, because it's easier to deal with thoughts than with emotions and actions (at least for me that was always the case).

Also, there is something of an obsession with control here, perhaps with everyone who asks what happens after we die. We don't know and we are under no obligation to keep asking ourselves that question. We think we do because we want to live our best life and have it forever.

On top of that, it takes time. I can't explain it or have it laid on plate, not even if I wanted to handle it to you like that. I had psychedelic experiences, relationships, books, people, trips that changed how I saw this issue. I thought I had things figured out, but I had a lot of surprises afterwards. Allow these surprises. It's a humble thing, because I feel at peace and also I know I'll have other insights on this 10 or 40 years in the future when I'm more mature.

I'm a buddhist today, I was the one who posted this >>19387438 and it kick started my interest in it. I read a bunch of other things too, sufism through Idries Shah also had an impact on how I see the world. I went to a psychanalyst for about 8 years, it gave me a lot of emotional maturity I believe, but it's not a straight path, I was in and out of depression several times. You'll have to find your own path, as corny as that sound. I don't mean it as solace, but as a fact that you are not alone in feeling bad about thinking of this, quite the contrary.

i don't have a soul so it doesn't matter
you do, but i don't

>>19390197
I appreciate you taking the time to write this out, anon. I took a screenshot and will keep this in mind as I recover and move forward.

>>19390221
Good to hear anon, take care!

>>19379036
This was a beautiful reminder. Thank you.

>>19378091
>Well, if materialism is true
It's not

>>19374671
I fully believe that I was once briefly in Hell, and I see no reason I would not go there again after my death.

>>19390643
Give me one (1) why I shouldn't believe in materialism?

>>19390666
>reason
Your first mistake

>>19390718
Belief in an afterlife is exclusively pragmatic to your life as you're living it now. Regardless of what you decide to believe, it's nothing but cope. All predictions about death are shots in the dark. >>19389702 and >>19379009 are equally suitable, but fulfill differently depending on your level of will and intelligent curiosity.

>>19390666
>been to hell
>is satan
I don't like this thread anymore.

>>19390666
Treat it like a Dantean vision. It might've only been for your edification to see Hell. Doesn't mean you're destined there.

>>19390666
Very concerning post

Subsumed into the Hegelian Absolute until such time as It, We, become fully self aware.

>>19390908
I've tried that, but it was in vain. I lack the will power needed to improve myself.

>>19374671

You cease to exist, the corpse rots. It's no more complicated than that. the rest is cope. It's a fairly happy circumstance when you think about it.

>>19374671
My nigga Rudolph Steiner breaks it down well

>>19374671
Danbury, Connecticut

>>19374671
Certainly somewhere.

>>19391225
You know this how?

>>19391225
Lol another nothingness dogmatist.

Religion of midwitery and intellectual laziness.

>>19391932
I'm not that anon but I would love to believe in an alternative to nothing. Enlighten me?

Probably going to end up at the cemetery down the road from where I was born

Bump

>>19374671
i dont remember most of the information i've imbibed by reading. I take notes, i paraphrase what i've read, i read syntopically.

It's basically a sophisticated form of masturbation as far as i can tell.

The best example I can think of, is that I got a degree and a masters degree in economics and work as an economist, yet I genuinely cannot remember anything about economics except for some stock phrases that I use in job interviews and on the job.

>>19391940
Either the eternal return to the word or eternal continuance of consciousness (in whatever hellish form that could be - taking into account that the human state of consciousness is extremely rare and lucky, insectoid and prey the most rare). These are the only two non-cope views on the afterlife. Belief in eternal nothingness is a way to cope with the eternal torment of never being satisfied and repeatedly coming back to the same situations over and over over an infinite timespan.

>>19392132
>insectoid and prey the most rare
most common I mean

>>19374780
yeah

>>19374780
Okay Carl

>>19374724
All works of art eventually become dust

>>19389908
I used to feel that the chance of there being nothing after death was tragic but after doing a bunch of lsd I don't really care. It seems so trivial and irrelevant to me that after all this I might dissolve into the void. Its irrelevant because I have what I have now, and I'll have it until its over, so I can just enjoy this while I'm here and not really give a damn. I've suffered plenty, too. There were times when I wasn't sure my life could possibly bounce back and thought that I might eventually kill myself (though I fear God), but this was after I had already gotten over death and nothingness. Once life got better, and it did, my suicidality passed and this returned to center.

I think the assumption that there is nothing after death is kind of near-sighted though. Its already well known that consciousness is absurd and seemingly has no right to emerge from material processes. If the beginning of experience is an absurdity we are forced to accept I think death as the end of experience is even more absurd because it implies we understand how consciousness sprung from the material. As long as that question remains unanswered I see no reason why I should assume death is the end.

>>19389908
>>19389908
I used to feel that the chance of there being nothing after death was tragic but after doing a bunch of lsd I don't really care. It seems so trivial and irrelevant to me that after all this I might dissolve into the void. Its irrelevant because I have what I have now, and I'll have it until its over, so I can just enjoy this while I'm here and not really give a damn. I've suffered plenty, too. There were times when I wasn't sure my life could possibly bounce back and thought that I might eventually kill myself (though I fear God), but this was after I had already gotten over death and nothingness. Once life got better, and it did, my suicidality passed and this returned to center.

I think the assumption that there is nothing after death is kind of near-sighted though. Its already well known that consciousness is absurd and seemingly has no right to emerge from material processes. If the beginning of experience is an absurdity we are forced to accept I think death as the end of experience is even more absurd because it implies we understand how consciousness sprung from the material. As long as that question remains unanswered I see no reason why I should assume death is the end. In other words, why assume death is the end when it is in no way self-evident that birth is the beginning?

I'd like to think all my babbling about return theory swayed the conversation in this thread, though I don't really care.

The final word is there is no answer. I guess I'm satisfied to see people take the potential lack of nothingness seriously.

Its funny how this issue makes us think more about our lives than our deaths. For some of us, an eternity with ourselves is the worst thing imaginable. Pretty sure thats what Fred was going for with his version of eternal return.

Maybe we should strive to enjoy an eternity with ourselves.

>>19374671
Especially if you realize how insane quantum physics is and how strange the universe is (how can something begin when there was nothing to begin with?), there is no real answer to this.

Also if you understand linguistics and the flaws of the language, it could actually be that there is heaven.

Sadly there is no answer to your question because no language will be able to comprehend what happens after death.

To blow your mind one more time: What is the smallest thing and how can it even exist? We always talk about gravity, forces and other things, but how can there be any of those things if we are coming from nothing?

>>19374671
The fact that your body floods your brain with a potent hallucinogenic, makes me think evolution knows it is going to be uncomfortable and dark.
I'll be dead a lot longer than I'm alive, and I don't think that is a good thing or that there are good things to come as a result of dying.
The universe is nothing but indifferent while we are alive.
I dont see that changing a whole lot when I am dead.

>>19393864
>The fact that your body floods your brain with a potent hallucinogenic
Unproven. Check the literature. Its got more to do with receptors and agents they've found in small amounts in some mammals, but the "DMT at death" thing is broscience.

>>19374671
Ah
The undiscovered country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have,
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all,
And thus the native hue of Resolution
Is sicklied o'er, with the pale cast of Thought,
And enterprises of great pitch and moment,
With this regard their Currents turn awry,
And lose the name of Action.

>>19374780
kino

>>19391883

The OP didn't ask me (or anyone) for what I know. He asked me for what I think. That's what I think. The only distinction is that it is more reasonable, there are better grounds, for people to think as I do than than it is to think that there is some sort of an afterlife or some "eternal return" nonsense like this guy >>19392132 is floating, throwing out a piece of philosophical jargon in an effort to sound smart. He also fails to indicate why the rarity of the human mode of consciousness as opposed to those of other organisms is supposed to have any bearing on its continuance or regeneration. There is a reason for this.

Yes, there could be an afterlife. The point is that there aren't good reasons to posit one.

Bump

>>19374671
>Where do you think you go when you die, /lit/?
You die. You seize. And what you think doesn't matter
What are you all? Three?

>>19395416
>>19395496

How do cope with thinking this, though? Doesn't it disturb you to your core?

That's what the mask is
That's what the point of the mask is. And all they ask is. Why are you so sad kid?
I fucked my nan anal

>>19395512

No, it sincerely doesn't. On the contrary I find the idea of any sort of a god to be far more unpleasant, especially since the gods historically described in human religious traditions tend to be cosmic tyrants, and no, I'm not just talking about The Big One. Even Zeus goes about raping and such. gods tend to be projections of human emotions, including their asshole qualities which are then amplified.

To become nothing is a comfy thought. An afterlife would spoil this.

you're born into the dmt world but stay there and grow up again.

>>19395512
>cope
Why do you need to cope? What is is, it's will never not be the best game in town
Would you really rather exchange it for some cheap knock-off copout?

>>19390666
What was it like?

Idk but i hope i reincarnate into a cute asian girls hoodie that she will take good care of for eternity

>>19395920
I'd rather not go into detail with the description because I'd like to use it for a short story. Not as much fire as you might expect, but a lot of smoke. There have been a few times in my life when I wasn't able to breathe and I've never felt my lungs burning the way they did then.

>>19378041
If you mean eternality as in timelessness, then I agree. We also have to remember that such nothingness reduces your subject into nothingness as well, which is nice to think about.

>>19379015
What does it mean to say there is no "me"? Does it mean there is no objective correlate to my subjective experiences, or that there is no essential connection or continuity between the moments of my life to make them all my moments specifically, or that experience does not exist?

I'd say I'm most likely going to Hell. I know the stereotypical Hell is full of wailing souls burning in sulfur and brimstone or something, but to me Hell is cold and empty. There might be millions of others there but you would never encounter a single one, because to be in Hell is to have rejected God and been rejected by Him in turn, cutting you off from all warmth forever, even the warmth shared by two sinners damned forever.

>>19374671
Induction would make us infer that the destruction of certain bodily functions would collapse cognitive and perceptual manifolds which support appearance. This would destroy all appearance, and the subject would collapse, merging into nothingness and absense. Thankfully, since temporal order and speed is purely ideal, your life experiences are permanently etched into reality, meaning every part of your life is always being experienced (as well as every part of everyone elses life, assuming solipsism is false).

If you follow virtue you go to Elysium.

You go unconscious. You go there unconscious every night. You spend your entire life waiting to go unconscious for 6 hours every night. You prepare for it every single of day of your life to transition into you next life. You dream your life before it happens. Once you go unconscious in this life permanently and wake up in the next. You begin waking up for 6 hours a day rather than closing your eyes to transition into unconsciousness. It’s just a cycle of sleeping and waking. Or dying and being reborn. Macro to micro you know what’s going to happen it’s not a mystery unless you aren’t paying attention. Pay attention and simply see beyond the veil. Don’t forget to read Plato.

>>19374671
Take a breakthrough dose of 5 meo dmt every day for a week and you’ll find out and live

>>19386225
if our minds exist after we die then god is real and its not a void

>>19374671
>Where do you think you go when you die, /lit/?
Jesus is right about eternity.

>>19374724
An interesting take, but only the authors ideas revive. They themselves remain dead.

>>19396736
why do you have to guilt trip to recroot? If you succeed you'll only get either get feeble-minded people or broken ones

>>19374671
eternal Elysium where my horses graze

>>19375516
>I was perfectly content before I was born
I hate this comparison so much. You didnt exist before you were born, there was nothing. You didn't feel "content", there was no you to begin with

>>19378247
>An energetic/immaterial/super-material version of your body enters into a normally unseen and unexperienced realm
Source?

>>19374671
>Ecclesiastes 9:5
>For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten
I'll enjoy being nothing and not thinking about anything

>>19374671
hell

Into the ground.

>>19390718
I can't believe that consciousness is purely an emergent property of matter
It's absurd to consider matter having this potential without some sort of immaterial component as well
I occams razor'd myself out of materialism

>>19374671
grave, if I'm lucky

Arby's

>>19399839
Based

>>19374671
>die
>wait for respawn (can take bilions of years)
>since time cannot be experienced in death respawn is instantanous

repeat ad infinitum across every plane of the universe/multiverse

>>19399958
This is also what I believe, unsavory as it may sound.

Your mind is a field of consciousness on which emotions are laid. When you are angry, your consciousness too is angry. It’s imprinted. Same with other emotions. This imprint caused by your own anger stays in the field.
The Universe adjusts itself to suit your imprinted consciousness. A hell is mental, two people could be in a field and one could believe he is about to be torn into shreds by boars and the other could believe his dream girl will meet him there.
The Universe adjusts itself to your imprints because it’s a reflection, an energetic loop of accuser-accused. If you feel anger towards a dog your anger will be returned to you this time as the party that is the victim of anger. For example if you kick a dog out of love, your imprint will cause love to manifest energetically. You’ll feel loved.

Our actions are perfectly mirrored, love is met by love and hate by hate. It’s a natural energetic law, the Law of Return. Karma.
If one pays attention they’ll notice that even though they are sitting on their couch, sometimes they’re joyed and other times angered. The environment is the same yet our mental states vastly differ. When we die our soul is weighed, and by our own judgement will we be judged. If we punish others out of desire for revenge, then we too shall be held to that standard. But if we forgive others, we too shall be judged by our own forgiveness.
Then we are assigned a (human) body based on our actions, a person who in his previous life was kind to a stray cat, is reborn with a lovely cat as a pet, the same person looked down on the disabled and treated them worse for it is reborn unable to walk. The same person was kind in his previous life and is reborn with eyes that radiate kindness. The same person was spineless and is reborn with a weak chin.
On and on. Noone knows the exact mechanisms we are judged by, but they tend to be pretty ironic and the universe really has a sense of humour…

That’s why there are two types of karma (action)
The Action of action.
This Karma is when we take action to be good/bad. (We hold the intent to commit a deed)
The Action of mind.
(We hold the intent to think a thought)
This Karma is when we purify our mind, or hold evil thoughts.

Do not bother yourself with reasoning what is “good” or “bad” and why it is that way. Do not try to cheat Karma (you can’t) by using semantics, you can’t hide from your true intentions.
You intrinsically know good. It doesn’t need to be conceptualized. Further more Karma recognizes Human rights such as:
Freedom of thought/speech. Karma will not intervene if you are entertaining thoughts to find out their energetic content and whether it is good or not.
Karma respects self defense, Karma is a perfect judge, if you truly believe you acted in self defense, then you hold the intent of defense, not of violence.
Also a tip: just because you think it’s selfish to do a good deed for reward, it’s still better than not doing a good deed.

>>19400886
To add to this: Karma is a bitch. Don’t expect mercy from her, she’s blind, cold, calculating, and your begging will not stay her retribution.

>>19400934
Karma isn't real. Blaming anything outside of yourself is a victim mindset, you're responsible for your own happiness. We are nothing, and we will return to nothing, whether you choose to stay true to your beliefs or become a hedonistic weirdo is totally up to you, but there are consequences to following through with certain ideas. You can do everything right, and still fail. It's only when you fear failure rather than expect it, that's when you truly lose.