/lit/ - Literature

>>19162030
>genuinely justified royal family
No such thing ever existed or ever will.

>>19162030
Mann shat all over Wagner's prose writings and for good reason, it seems. The screaming gnome of Saxony indeed.

Jesus was a German? Cool.

>>19162382
Not Op but Mann said nothing about Wagner which Nietzsche didn't already better. And Nietzsche read and valued Wagner's prose works.

>We wuz Jooz

>>19162030
Arent the Nibelungs the dwarf race that Alberich belongs to and which he enslaves using the Ring?

>>19162468
Wagner wrote this before he wrote the Ring, where the Nibelungs became dwarfs.

>>19162030
What is it with Germans and We Wuzzing as much as niggers?

>>19162030
Hegelian Wagner was best Wagner.

>>19162030
>Nibelungs refers to a race of dwarfs, Nibelung was a dwarfish king
Manlet master race confirmed?

>>19163122
Nah, Wagner’s music only became good when he abandoned Feuerbach and anarchism for Schopenhauer.

>>19163138
>Das Rheingold and Die Walkure aren't good

>>19163138
also
>anarchism
When will this meme end, Wagner was never an anarchist.

I tried to listen to Wagner last night, some album of overtures by Klemperer, it was really boring. one big long fart.

>>19163142
He was tolerant enough of it to be in the company of Bakunin, so that makes him one as far as I’m concerned.
>>19163152
Sorry you can’t enjoy music that isn’t encouraging sexualized dancing with its rhythms.

>>19163164
It was his personality that Wagner was attracted to, not anything political other than a general support of revolution:

>It was long before this date that I first made the acquaintance of this most remarkable man. For years I had come across his name in the newspapers, and always under extraordinary circumstances. He turned up in Paris at a Polish gathering, but although he was a Russian, he declared that it mattered little whether a man were a Russian or a Pole, so long as he wanted to be a free man, and that this was all that mattered. I heard afterwards, through George Herwegh, that he had renounced all his sources of income as a member of an influential Russian family, and that one day, when his entire fortune consisted of two francs, he had given them away to a beggar on the boulevard, because it was irksome to him to be bound by this possession to take any thought for the morrow. [...] When I met him, therefore, under the humble shelter of Rockel's roof, I was immediately struck by his singular and altogether imposing personality. He was in the full bloom of manhood, anywhere between thirty and forty years of age. Everything about him was colossal, and he was full of a primitive exuberance and strength. I never gathered that he set much store by my acquaintance. Indeed, he did not seem to care for merely intellectual men; what he demanded was men of reckless energy. As I afterwards perceived, theory in this case had more weight with him than purely personal sentiment; and he talked much and expatiated freely on the matter. His general mode of discussion was the Socratic method, and he seemed quite at his ease when, stretched on his host's hard sofa, he could argue discursively with a crowd of all sorts of men on the problems of revolution. On these occasions he invariably got the best of the argument. It was impossible to triumph against his opinions, stated as they were with the utmost conviction, and overstepping in every direction even the extremest bounds of radicalism. So communicative was he, that on the very first evening of our meeting he gave me full details about the various stages of his development, he was a Russian officer of high birth, but smarting under the yoke of the narrowest martial tyranny, he had been led by a study of Rousseau's writings to escape to Germany under pretence of taking furlough. In Berlin he had flung himself into the study of philosophy with all the zest of a barbarian newly awakened to civilisation. Hegel's philosophy was the one which was the rage at that moment, and he soon became such an expert in it, that he had been able to hurl that master's most famous disciples from the saddle of their own philosophy, in a thesis couched in terms of the strictest Hegelian dialectic.

>>19163164
>Sorry you can’t enjoy music that isn’t encouraging sexualized dancing with its rhythms.
yeah it's either Wagner or WAP, only two choices

>>19163367
>yeah it's either Wagner or WAP, only two choices
The all of the American popular music that has dominated the globe since WWI is equivalent to WAP in this regard. Jazz was first developed in red light districts, and the term “rock no’ roll” was just a euphemism for sex.

>>19163384
what's that got to do with me not liking a Wagner recording?

>>19163152
You listened to the Rheingold prelude on repeat.

>>19163416
I took a guess t what you do like, and what that says about you in light of not liking Wagner's music.

it's from "The Ghibeline Kaiserdom and Friedrich I."
and wagner speculates about how Friedrich I could've mixed german ur-kingship with christian legitimacy to fortify his ambitions. it's literally just imagined speech by Barbarossa, amplifying its "extreme pretensions", and op probably knows this but posts without context, because he's a lazy troll.

>clearly and plainly as none before, great Friedrich I. took up the heir-idea in its sublimest sense. The whole inner and outer depravation of the world appeared to him the necessary consequence of the weakness and incompleteness with which the Kaiser's power had been exerted thitherto: the material might, already in sorry case, must be perfectly amended by the Kaiser's ideal dignity; and that could only come to pass when its extreme pretensions were enforced. The ideal lines of the great fabric that rose before Friedrich's energetic soul may be drawn (in the freer mode of speech allowed to-day) somewhat as follows:— "In the German Folk survives the oldest lawful race of Kings in all the world: it issues from a son of God, called by his nearest kinsmen Siegfried, but Christ by the remaining nations of the earth; etc...

>>19162808
It's because Germany had no real cohesive culture, so in the 19th century during the rise in nationalism and the creation of new Nation States, the most powerful germanic kingdoms/länder (like Prussia) had to make up a similar creation myth and history so that Germany could be justly unified using the aforementioned founding myth.

tl;dr
The founding myth, the origins, and culture of modern Germany were all made up in the 19th century so they we wuz a lot

>>19163578
An Italian director of Leipzig Conservatiore and debt collector was teaching a class on Felix Mendelssohn, known painter.
“Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and worship Mendelssohn and accept that he was the most highly-evolved being the world has ever known, even greater than Jesus Christ!”
At this moment, a free, heroic, Wagnerite who had been to Bayreuth 1500 times and understood the necessity of the artwork of the future and fully supported all death-devoted love stood up and held up a copy of the Nibelungenlied.
“How German is this saga?”
The arrogant professor smirked quite Jewishly and smugly replied “not German at all, you stupid nationalist, it predates German nationalism and the German state and was only coopted as a German national poem in the 19th century.”
“Wrong. This is the spirit of the German Volk. If it was older than Germany, as you say… then it should be written in a different language.”
The professor was visibly shaken, and dropped his chalk and copy of Brahms’ Symphony no 4. He stormed out of the room crying those bourgeois crocodile tears.
The students applauded and all joined the Knights of the Grail that day and accepted Siegfried as the hero who would redeem the world. Two ravens flew out of the room to a distant rock and Valhalla was seen burning in the sky as a shepherd played a joyous tune on his pipe. Schopenhauer’s World as Will and Representation was read several times, and King Ludwig II himself showed up and funded their artistic projects indefinitely.
The director lost his tenure and was fired the next day. He got cucked by the very composer he was conducting for and was dragged deep into the Rhine for all eternity.
Höchsten Heiles Wunder!
Erlösung dem Erlöser!

>>19163592
kek, some of you anons are alright, don't come to the board tomorrow

>>19163592
saved

>>19163592
>Wagner cuckolding the man
This is what really seals it. Very nice.

>>19163705
nah, he was probably still conducting brahms' #4

>>19163776
but it works both ways, the professor is just the eternal cuck

>>19163776
When a composer cuckolds a director, I always assume it's Wagner.

>>19163789
>If it had been anyone but Wagner I would have shot him
Bulow should be pitied, he continued to support Wagner even after Cosima left him.

>>19163592
basado

>>19163578
>tl;dr The founding myth, the origins, and culture of modern Germany were all made up in the 19th century so they we wuz a lot

This is just blatantly false lol. I litterally read the edda earlier today in swedish and it is translated from codez regius ca 1000-1200 CE and other various sources from around north Europe dating back to different estimates.

These are folktales about supposed kings from when early germanic history around north-germany/southern scandinavia. The germans litterally spread from the north coast to alps after celts. The germans share this history with scandinavia .

That is to say it is a pan-germanic herritage not specific to germany.

>>19163152
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHpfZe-DOK0