/lit/ - Literature

>>19149622
I used to read Green Anarchy magazine back in the 2000s, is that still going or are they all SJW's like every other political movement now?

>>19149622
Great book.

>>19150520
good question.

>>19153042
Looks like the magazine died early, Black and Green Press is still going apparently(?).

>>19150520
>>19154299
Fifth Estate is still puttering along

>>19149622
>>19150520
Green Anarchy is still massively influential, most post-left anarchists these days are deeply critical of so-called 'cancel culture,' that doesn't mean you'll be able to get away with transphobia and racism, we're still degenerates, see.
Literature recommendations:

>Excommunicate Me from the Church of Social Justice
>Against the Logic of Submission (Wolfie Landstreicher)
>No Really, Not All Black People Care About Dreads (Flower Bomb)
Flower Bomb has good writing sometimes but he's a massive asshat. Warzone Distro publishes good shit once in a while but they're massive pricks at other times, and a lot of what they put out is bottom-of-the-barrel edgelord shit.

>>19154299
Black and Green Press is ran by Kevin Tucker, who's kind of a bitch. The collective that ran Green Anarchy is still going strong. They've just all moved on to other projects, like the Berkeley Anarchist Study Group, the magazine Black Seed, the publisher Little Black Cart, etc.

I'll write out a quick guide to anti-civ lit and authors

Classics:
>Camatte - the Wandering of Humanity
>Perlman (pbuh) - Against History, Against Leviathan
>Perlman (pbuh) - The Continuing Appeal of Nationalism
>Perlman (pbuh) - Antisemitism and the Beirut Pogrom
>Zerzan - Time and it's Discontents

Green pessimism:

>Anonymous - Desert
>Alejandro de Acosta - Its core is the negation

General post-left or primitivism critical:
>Wolfi Landstreicher - a Critique, Not a Program
>Aragorn! - The Fight for Turtle Island
>Julian Langer - Feral Iconoclasm
>Hakim Bey - Temporary Autonomous Zones
>Ausonia Calabrese - In Defence of Cannibalism

Calabrese is also a well-known prick but she's a 19-year-old wop from Brooklyn so what can you do?

>What's her face - Take What You Want and Compost the Rest: a Post-Civ Primer

This piece is okay (can't remember her name, she's from Feminazgul or w/e) but it tries to seperate Post-Civ from anti-civ and it just seems like damage control because anti-civ is a no-no opinion amongst social anarchists and she's pandering to them.

Why didn't I suggest Ted K? He's actually not that good of a writer. I defend him because he's loads better than the civvies and technocucks but he's not even on the same level as Kevin Tucker

>>19155132
hmm perlman is alright, camatte was just a coward, and idk or care about the rest
anarchist lit just seems like telling yourself stories about how iconoclastic and rebellious you are

>>19155212
also PLW and Calabrese write like orientalists

>>19155212
>anarchist lit just seems like telling yourself stories about how iconoclastic and rebellious you are
One of the points of anarchy is to remind you of the tremendous power you have, and the fact unlike communism - the state isn't responsible for your life.You are on your own. In a lot of ways, its liberating, because a lot of liberal, communist, marxist retards have a philosophy that turn you into a victim of your circumstances, and want you constantly whine about opression. Post-leftists typically do that. They just mock, ridiculue and destory everything - even themselves if they have to.

>>19155454
deep

>>19155132
I really appreciate your contributive post anonymous I just wanted to throw a rock at Perlman

Why is it a feature of jewish thought to be constantly obsessed with antisemitism

it seems so out of field for someone who's "anti-civilization" to care about such a thing. I guess being a fringe weirdo post-state post-capitalist lunatic doesn't get in the way with being obsessed about with ingroup/outgroup bullshit.

I'll still read it but it irks me.

Thanks for your post,
Anonymous

>>19155531
you’re retarded. fuck this board, man

>>19155212
How was Camatte a coward? And how are you not?

>>19155531
You're seriously fucking stupid.
Antisemitism and the Beirut Pogrom is a takedown of Zionism.

Please stay away from any of the literature I posted it clearly will do you no good until you develop more than half a braincell

>>19155235
PLW is a literal orientalist pedophile and Calabrese is a greasy guinea pseud Christfag

>>19149622
Most of Edward Abbey's writings

Forgive me if the timing is off here, I was taking too many drugs throughout this period. I read the manifesto in the late 90s and was convinced by Ted's argument. The anti-globalization movement and third worldism was big at this time. 9/11 killed that. When I looked for other people thinking the same there was a bunch of "green" libs, watermelons, the occasional gutter punk, and folk punk musos, none of whom were actually engaged in thinking about the problem. I was happy to find GA in the anarchist book store/zine cupboard and spent a few years talking to people about the problem of civ, why deep ecology wasn't enough etc. I made no impact whatsoever as far as I can tell. Crimethinc came along some people were inspired by that but it was always vague.

Eventually I realized that medicine is really good and requires industrial society to produce it. And that the fight against the state was lost. That ended my time as a GA type. Basically at this point I figure we're either going to make the world unlivable for humanity or make it work out somehow - neither option entails 'retvrning to monke.' Anyway, odds are we'll tech our way out of this, yes, yes, I'm familiar with the arguments, save your breath.

Most of these people I haven't heard of, Hakim Bey (probably a pedo?) was inspiring at the time but like a lot mystic thought it looks like nonsense unless you buy into it. Zerzan is just silly, we're not going to dispose of language and anyway making 'abuse' the foundation of your metaphysics is just a recipe for suicide. Green Anarchy magazine was just too negative to live imho, if you spend all you time thinking about ecocide it becomes hard to live well. And as fun and edgy as punk can be there's only so many skulls you can see before it wears off or you get sick of it. Having kids justifies the whole thing.

Bumping because someone’s asking about it again

>>19155650
edward abbey was a proto anarcho fascist that modern day """anarchists""" seethe over because he hated non whites and faggots

"anti civ" anarchists are delusional retards who ignore the fact that primitive societies were warlike, oppressive and anti egalitarian
the tlingit had a slave trading warrior society that sacked other tribes up and down the coast. the abos raped and killed constantly. etc etc.

>>19158184
leviathanic propaganda

>>19155454
yes, but I think his point was that it has a deep string of antithesis. as in its a slave towards, like you said, NOT being x. Rather than being the you. Seeing the elements you can appreciate of x as well as elements you don't appreciate.

>>19158197
>leviathanic propaganda
Cope
If you want to go back to a hunter gatherer society because you want to be a warlord rapist warrior then that's fine, but don't pretend that primitive societies were egalitarian idylls when any serious anthropologist would tell you they weren't. you're just imposing your modern ideology on different people.
The only "peacefull egalitarian" societies throughout history were some farming societies and jewish sects, all societies even down to the most primitive have fought and been warlike.

>>19155132
>you'll be able to get away with transphobia
isnt primitivism kind of hard to synthesis with trans ideology? at least in its modern or most senses I can think of. Of course that doesnt mean being 4chan irreverent in common conversation.

>>19158184
At what time did white man find these corrupted people? Well after the slave trade was brought to them.

>>19158215
same pre-programmed drivel I see everywhere.

>>19155132
Im interested in the english civil war and the early modern anglosphere. Any good books on some of the out there communities like the diggers?

And on that topic, do you think some form of strong ideology is needed for communal living to perpetuate? Amish are note exactly the model of post-leftism, but the fact that they servived so long as a very distinct group from mainline America and didnt die out gives some credit to some aspect of their nature. Somethimes I think a lack of a strong sense of self leaves a community wide open to fracture and not surviving the rigors of time.

>>19158234
huh? pretty sure the Iroquois compact, while an amazing polity, still had pretty constant skirmishes with outside tribes as well as a political hierarchy that allowed more powerful tribes to dominate less powerful ones.

>>19158249
So when they experimented with sedentary life, populations grew and skirmishes over resources started to flair up.
Also there’s a case of a freak weather pattern. In the medieval period, Europe saw weeks of downpours that ruined crops. The rain should have fallen some on North American, Ohio and there abouts, where the natives had townships all over. The drought probably caused some fights and an eventual abandonment of such living arrangements.

But what was your point? That nuclear annihilation and twenty+ year long wars, and chemical/biological weapon use is equivalent to Native American quarreling?

>>19158277
>But what was your point?
Its not an isolated or particularly historically contingent incident, but seemingly a generally common occurrence across human cultures.
> is equivalent to Native American quarreling?
in context, often yes, given how skirmishing between small polities/tribes tend to end with massively proportional loss of life. You might be able to express it in terms of the square-cube law.

>>19158177
You say this like it's a bad thing

>>19158311
No he didnt. he even put tripple quotation marks around anarchists.

>>19158239
you know fuck all about primitive tribes
talk to an actual anthropologist you dolt

>>19158234
>>19158277
The Tlingit had a huge slave trade before the white man came along. it was the white man who banned the tlingit slave trade but they kept practising it even after the ban
Slavery was integral to tlingit hunter gatherer culture you delusional midwit sperg

Anyone buy the republished copy of this on amazon? Any good?

>>19158357
God, I wish I was a Tlingit Slave....

>>19158293
> a generally common occurrence across human cultures.
All the more reason to abandon states and their standing armies, right?
>in context (that I have no data for)
There is no actual returning to the way things were, but we are big enough to know how to avoid the worst pitfalls… unless we stay hypnotized by the pageantry of states. The worst pit of all.

>>19158357
Hmm? This is the literature board

>>19158357
>>19158385
This isn't even mentioning the Chukchi of the russian far east who used to capture slaves from the pacific coast of america. These people viewed all others apart from them as below human and worked them to death in freezing conditions. The tlingit carried knives because suicide was preferable to being a Chukchi slave

>>19158400
>Hmm? This is the literature board
Yeah and it's disproving your idyllic hunter gatherer fantasy
Hunter gatherers were more violent and warlike than the agricultural people who came after them

>>19149622

>>19158419
>more violent and warlike than
>the Pentagon and State Department
Hahahhahahha. No no no no.
Just name your source. Duh

>>19158353
>talk to the state-funded propagandists, that'll teach you
don't care, I see further than you, you're a gnat

>>19158419
>see? there are no alternatives to the way we live now, it was always like this
kek, how can people be this brainwashed?

>>19158225
>isnt primitivism kind of hard to synthesis with trans ideology?

only if you think primitivism is some appeal to biology and capital-n Nature. which, of course, it is not.

primitivism, more accurately, posits that gender itself is a form of control developed by civilization, for Zerzan, the sexual division of labor. to reify that system through transphobia (affirming a biological-scientific notion of 'gender' as some complex of chromosomes, hormones, innate psychology) is thus antithetical to the primitivist project. there are gender nihilist critiques of trans identity politics, but this usually occurs from the standpoint of trans women analyzing their own position and deconstruction notions of sex and gender, not 4chan neckbeards screaming about trannies because muh nature!!!! and muh natural law!!! and muh biology!!!

plus how could you reconcile policing anyone's identity with anarchism? even ted k -- who is NOT a primitivist -- admits that primitive societies have gender-variant populations (he just thinks it's a bad thing)

>>19158357
anyone who's read even a single paragraph of the anthropological record knows that PNW indigenous societies aren't even remotely comparable to gather-hunter societies elsewhere in the world because the PNW is unusually rich and lends itself easily to the centralization of resources even without agriculture (hence the potlatch, slave trade, hierarchical societies, advanced mercantilism.)

zerzan would argue that any peoples with dogs (which, of course, is all of them) are already too far gone, because dogs are evidence of domestication which, at least for him, is a two-way street

>>19158225
Teddie wrote about intersexed primitives

>>19158215
>any serious anthropologist would tell you primitive societies weren't egalitarian idylls

they also wouldn't tell you that they weren't all warlord rapists. these are both reifications of primitive societies influenced by victorian and enlightenment attitudes (the noble savage and the savage state of nature respectively.)

>>19158184
see >>19158615 and note that in comparison to civilized societies (which centralize domination and violence, even to the point that subjects internalize it) that those so-called 'warlike' societies are still more peaceful.

slavery in primitive (and even classical, e.g. Roman and Greek) societies is nothing like the form of chattel slavery that developed from the triangle trade during the age of exploration. war, too, was nothing like war as practiced in the west. for example, amongst the iroquois and even the 'savage' mexica aka aztec, war was almost entirely bloodless. for the former they used warfare as a means for making up for lost 'power' that was thought annihilated when tribal subjects died. hence the popularity of captivity narratives: war was a means to forcefully absorb foreign subjects into the iroquois nation. not exactly peachy, no, but much different from the large-scale ethnic cleansing the europeans brought to the continent. for the latter, war was an institution which provided both sides of the conflict with an important resource -- sacrificial victims. flower-wars were fought for this sole purpose. (note the mexica were a civilized nation, but it's still important to note that their sort of 'warfare' was completely alien to the spanish.) this widespread attitude towards warfare was a major reason, along with disease and resource inequalities, that the europeans so easily took the americas. because the indigenous people were not use to fighting wars in which people died on the battlefield, and as noted, in some cases where people died at all.

i reject noble savage idealism but i also reject enlightenment state of nature drivel. any anthropologist would tell you that the domestication of grain (whether it be corn in mesoamerica or wheat in the fertile crescent) led (i) to a massive decline in health amongst settled populations and (ii) dramatic increases in social inequality, thus the development of states, empires, slavery, and large-scale wars. again, in regards to the tlingit, the PNW was unusually rich which allowed them to develop a paracivilized society. compare the goblekli tepe culture which was able to use the superabundant wild grain to develop a centralized society WITHOUT agriculture.

fuck why do i effort post sleep deprived to literal 20 IQ retards on a mongolian surfboarding newsletter

>>19158615
>>19158673
>muh pnw is resource rich so it doesn't count
We can look at the australian aboirginals, the plains indians, the native siberians and countless others if you want to see warlike hunter gatherers. And it's not like the PNW is unique in having a wet damp climate with a lot of resources, the entirety of northwest europe is like that.
>muh dogs
Zerzan is a retard. Domesticating dogs won't turn a peaceful society into a warlike one.
>muh state of nature bad
War and conflict are good things. Hunter gatherers realise this whilst civilised westoids like you don't

>>19158673
because it's appreciated people like me who intuitively know enlightenment "state of nature" drivel is indeed drivel but refuse to do the research to humor these retards

imagine the descendants of the nations that plunged their oh so enlightened continent into two consecutive world wars finger wagging at a few tribal skirmishes. unreal.

>>19158775
>War and conflict are good things.
you ain't gonna do shit you larping bag of cunt juice

>>19158785
Imagine denying your own nature
Cannibalism is good as well, which muh peaceful hunter gatherer aboriginals realised.

>>19155650
forest anons vid have become quite boring...

>>19155132
>most post-left anarchists these days are deeply critical of so-called 'cancel culture,' that doesn't mean you'll be able to get away with transphobia and racism,
it's not about this camp or that camp but the stage and focus detracting from the non-mainstream ideas that are supposed to be in discussion

>>19158813
your nature is not my nature

>>19158813
>cannibalism is good as well
christfag detected

>>19158775
>ignores the entirety of the argument in order to bring up random indigenous peoples that are supposedly warlike according to enlightenment state of nature hogwash

i'm literally indigenous im not civilized or a westoid also

>civilised
anglo subhuman

>>19158842
that's like your opinion man

>>19158360
It's a reprint. Its nice. Just the cover is different.

enforcing primitivism probably isn't even possible with authoritarianism let alone relying on voluntary change

why not redirect your efforts to actual viable plans for dealing with the problems we face instead of being a pseudo-activist pretending you are doing something buy circle jerking over dead end ideas that you know damn well arent going anywhere?

>>19156836
based story of integration and individuation

>>19159513
Thank you anon.

>>19156836
>Eventually I realized that medicine is really good
Cringe. I'm sure it kept you or someone important to you alive, something to that effect; but modern medicine is objectively terrible from a spiritual, ecological, and economic standpoint.

>>19158842
stop watching then. for me the entertainment lies in the comfiness.

>>19159907
I just wish he did a bit more regarding literature and not solely focus on /out/ lifestyle.

>>19159964
i actually agree but dig around for his alt social hes always talking literature there where its a more personal atmosphere. he posted once saying he feels like an asshole talking about lit too often because he doesnt think his take on literature is worth anything to many people and in his exact wording "doesnt want to come across as having an exaggerated sense of the value of his own opinions"

>>19160103
when he quoted from TBK he didnt make a big fuss about it. It was more he had jsut read a profund paragraph and wanted to share it. I dont recall him saying a lot more about the passage than that and how resonating it was.

So if he simply showed how literature is still one aspect of his forest hobo life very much how he did in the past I am certain I would once again find his videos so much more interesting. I do still like his videos, but they have become a bit dull even in the comfiness.
>ut dig around for his alt social hes always talk
I only know I could find him through some goodreads group, but Im not big on alt social medias desu.

>>19160158
No one cares nigger. Shut the fuck up

>>19150520
wouldn't surprise me i imagine big money bought them all and turned the focus to social issues instead of environmental issues

>>19159726
>I'm sure it kept you or someone important to you alive
Sadly the story is actually much more pathetic than that. I had sworn not to take medicine at the time because I wanted to live up my beliefs and accept whatever nature threw at me (at this time I still hadn't realized that hypocrisy is inevitable). But when I got a splitting headache it only took about 8 hours of brain torture for me to break down and take those painkillers. Sad, but in the end I realized that - combined with my absolute failure to make any progress convincing others there was even a problem - there was no way I was going to convince others to let their parents or children die in the attempt to return to a uncivilised world.

>modern medicine is objectively terrible from a spiritual, ecological, and economic standpoint
Politics is the art of the possible. If it is impossible to discard something it doesn't matter how bad it is - it will remain.

>>19155650
true but he is considered racist because he wanted no immigration at all

>>19160158
I mean you also have to keep in mind he's not some entertainer he's just a hobo, so the fact he even posts is a blessing in itself. I think you're expecting a little too much from the guy.

>>19158422
>Uncivilization argues against the possibility that technological solutions to climate change ar
dropped

>>19160261
yes no matter how many green companies you start you will never invent yourself out of environmental problems

>>19158842
Forest Anon canning veggies and saving birds is a million times more interesting than you will ever be

>>19150520
I heard Derek Jensen got cancelled by Big Tranny, but I don't know the details.

when are you reading this plebs

>>19160771
What's good about it?

>>19160285
Based.

>>19149622
>reading anti-civ literature on a computer
Just go live as a tramp in a national park you fucking retard, there's literally nothing stopping you - but obviously you're only interested in these critiques as a hollow hobby.

>>19160222
Sounds based

>>19162815
No.