/lit/ - Literature

>>18941567

>>18941567
yah, thats what nietzsche said to do. Its almost like people havent read him.

>>18941567
How? Christianity and Nietzschean philosophy are diametrically opposed.

>>18941623
And where did Nietzsche say to practice both his philosophy and Christianity?

>>18941628
The collective disbelief of God is what killed civilization and led to a world of nihilism. Now it is up to man to carry the burden and rise above it.

>>18941567
Impossible. Read TSZ again.

>>18941639
He’s not suppose to rise above it by being a Christian, he’s supposed to rise above it by becoming a free spirit (who are essentially proto ubermensch), you dumb fuck

Tangent: would you consider modern day evangelical Christianity an example of master morality, particularly the kind centered around prosperity gospel, to be an example of master morality?

>>18941567
durr

>>18941658
Fuck, I edited that, then posted before making sure that the edit made sense.

>>18941634
read his letters and corespondences.

>>18941681
No, just post the relevant passage(s)

>>18941651
Free will through the Holy Spirit. That is the ultimate spirit that is free.

>>18941686
Nietzsche didn’t believe in free will

>>18941685
He had a very interesting relation with a number of wealthy religious protestant Americans who were actually one of his first major fanbases when he was very much a literal who in the scene, so he conversed with them a good deal. that plus some major influence of Thoreau. I would recommend looking the whole relation up.

>>18941703
>The Ubermensch doesn't have free will

>>18941766
That’s correct

>>18941634
>>18941567
Nietzsche was literally a Christian— some might say a particularly devout one— please don’t be an unlettered shitposting mong without knowing this.

>>18941774

>>18941771
So the evolution or process of becoming an ubermensch was predetermined or was it through the will?

>>18941805
Not him, but both. Nietzsche argues against both free will and the notion of an unfree, purely determined will in Beyond Good and Evil.

>>18941782
Illiterate…

>>18941837
>Nietzsche argues against both free will and the notion of an unfree
Describes Jesus Christ.

>>18941867
Zarathustra's "going-under" is more Satanic than Christian, however.

>>18941837
Nietzsche argues against free will in Twilight of the Idols, and defends biological determinism in The Will To Power. In fact, in his private letters he makes it clear he rejects all forms of idealism for that simple fact.

>>18941874
The passage I was thinking of was Beyond Good and Evil 21 where he argues against "freedom of the will" and "unfree will."

>>18941774
This. Retards think just because you criticize aspects of something you are against it but a lot of the time it actually means you are just really deep into it

>>18941567
So you just live by Ecclesiastes?

>>18941567
Nietzsche loved Christ but hated the Church. “God is dead” does not mean a) that that is a good thing b) that humans actually have the power to kill God. Nietzsche’s philosophy is full of contradictions and nuance, that’s part of the joy of reading him. Or did you not read Twilight of the Idols and the Anti-Christ in freshman year of high school?

>>18941892
>Thinks Nietzsche was a Christian
>Calls other people retards

>>18941906
>“God is dead” does not mean ... that humans actually have the power to kill God
Did you even read the full passage? God is dead, and WE have killed him.

>>18941906
>Must I add that, in the whole New Testament, there appears but a solitary figure worthy of honour? Pilate, the Roman viceroy. To regard a Jewish imbroglio seriously -- that was quite beyond him. One Jew more or less -- what did it matter? . . . The noble scorn of a Roman, before whom the word "truth" was shamelessly mishandled, enriched the New Testament with the only saying that has any value -- and that is at once its criticism and its destruction: "What is truth?"
Yeah, it sure sounds like Nietzsche really loved and respected Christ.

>>18941908
Zoomers amirite?

>>18941949
>Yeah, it sure sounds like Nietzsche really loved and respected Christ.
He did like Jesus, but he was not the first atheist to do so.

And just to put an end to the retarded idea Nietzsche was a Christian:

> "God", "immortality of the soul", "redemption", "beyond" -- Without exception, concepts to which I have never devoted any attention, or time; not even as a child. Perhaps I have never been childlike enough for them?
>I do not by any means know atheism as a result; even less as an event: It is a matter of course with me, from instinct. I am too inquisitive, too questionable, too exuberant to stand for any gross answer. God is a gross answer, an indelicacy against us thinkers - at bottom merely a gross prohibition for us: you shall not think!
-Ecce Homo

>>18941963
>>Must I add that, in the whole New Testament, there appears but a solitary figure worthy of honour? Pilate, the Roman viceroy.
Indeed. You can really feel the love for Christ radiating from this quote.

>>18941972
Can't remember the exact quote, but among his praises for Jesus, he said something like "He died too soon, if he lived enough he would turn against his old ideas, he had enough value to do so."

"God is Dead" was just Nietzsche's observation that the Italian Resistance, along with the Enlightenment strengthened the position of secularism against the religious idealism that towered over humanity - with the fall nail in the coffin being the German Renaissance splitting up the Papacy.
>"Renaissance and Reformation. The Italian Renaissance contained within itself all the positive forces to which we owe modern culture: namely, liberation of thought, disdain for authority, the triumph of education over the arrogance of lineage, enthusiasm for science and men's scientific past, the unshackling of the individual, an ardor for veracity and aversion to appearance and mere effect (which ardor blazed forth in a whole abundance of artistic natures who, with the highest moral purity, demanded perfection in their works and nothing but perfection). Yes, the Renaissance had positive forces which up to now have not yet again become so powerful in our modern culture. Despite all its flaws and vices, it was the Golden Age of this millennium. By contrast, the German Reformation stands out as an energetic protest of backward minds who had not yet had their till of the medieval world view and perceived the signs of its dissolution-the extraordinary shallowness and externalization of religious life-not with appropriate rejoicing, but with deep displeasure."
This thread is just the Christian version of the commie thread that tried to say Nietzsche would have been a fucking socialist. Just dumb people trying way too hard to shoehorn their ideology into something to gain legitimacy.

>>18941567
>Nietzsche was secretly a christian
>Plato was secretly a christian
>Aristotle was secretly a christian
When will the christcuck lies end?

>>18941998
I ask myself if these people read him at all. Same for antisemites and fascists. The only system he kind of made an argument for was some kind of ancap crap, which is dumb as fuck. Nietzsche was good at some things, stupid at others, just take what's good and let the rest rot, have your own ideas, don't rely on fucking idols, he said so.

>>18941567
Based.

>>18941963
He liked Jesus because he imagined him as a church-hating crypto-Buddhist, but he still called him an idiot.

>>18942037
From what I've read, I believe he admired his compassion and message of love more than that. Despite what people think, Nietzsche was all about being compassionate, humble and generous. He saw these as signs of nobility, a higher being who wants to give away his riches, like the sun, and he thought Jesus was a noble person.

>>18942058
>Despite what people think, Nietzsche was all about being compassionate, humble and generous.
He was about being honest, which necessarily brings those things with it at times, but he also rejected pity, and Zarathustra said that man should become more evil, so it's not as one-sided as you make it sound.

>>18941567
>>18942030
Does a mind state more based than Jungian Christianity even exist?