/lit/ - Literature

>>18857016
dying drug addics on the streets

>>18857016
Read a book, nigger.

>>18857016
>Post lit that refutes hedonism
Every philosophy that does not consider pleasure to be the object of desire: Spinoza, Deleuze, etc.

>>18857033
ywnbaw

>>18857033
>Spinoza, Deleuze
Could you reference specific works?

>>18857016
Growing up usually takes care of that

>>18857016
Philebus by Plato.

>>18857016
Holy based. Enjoy yourself, live for yourself. Cuck slaves enjoy your cuck slave ideologies.

>>18857030
This and hookers

The servant who made him brekkie shoulda just killed him and stole his things. It would be more enjoyable than working, I think

>>18857016
Pain doesnt exist in the afterlife, so I need to experience as much pain as I can...

>>18857045
In the Ethics, Spinoza claims that desire is the nature of men, and ---before or after that, don't remember--- he says that desire, as potency, is always efectuated ---ergo, at its whole. Deleuze repeats the same in almost every book, and explicitly on Anti-Oedipus and A Thousand Plateaus.

>>18857052
Plato in general refutes hedonism. You can view the Republic as a kind of refutation of hedonism, because Plato says that justice is good for its own sake even if you can get more easy pleasures and benefits by being unjust.

>>18857186
justice is hedonism

>>18857016
Aristotle sort of refutes this in his Ethics, if I understood him, by asserting that happiness is the ultimate aim of a human life and a person achieves happiness by exercising virtue, such as temperance; whereas exercising vice, such as indulgence in carnal pleasure, entails the opposite- unhappiness.

>>18857125
Then the cops would stick him in jail and he'd be executed. You're too stupid to be a hedonist.

the refutation is that avoiding hedonism brings more pleasure than living hedonistically, in my experience

Mishima: vice and virtue both get boring after some time. But boring vice is a million times worse than boring virtue.

>>18857016
Pleasure is inferior to beauty, which includes a subset of ethics. Even if you're totally godless aesthetic instinct precludes certain forms of behavior

>>18857052
Philebus is pretty weak to be honest. Maybe I'm just missing something? Can you type out in short Plato's refutation to hedonism in Philebus?

>>18857016
Society couldn't function if everyone sought to maximize their pleasures. Not that Sade really cared about that, but still.

>>18858885
There is no absence of pain or pleasure in beauty.

>>18859074
The two conflict eg gluttony or petty malice

>>18859080
How so? When we observe beauty, there is either the internalization of pain (prostration) and/or the subconscious devouring of it (pleasure).

>>18859085
It's a separate faculty though, it's not pain or pleasure even if it coincides with them, and I mean that the pursuit of it will conflict with hedonism

>>18859012
tldr if pleasure (or aesthetic satisfaction) was the key to happinness, the best form of living would be like that of a sea sponge. However, this doesn't look like a happy life for a human, a human needs mostly to do what's right (rational satisfaction), to be happy, not be drowned in pleasure. No need to necessarily abstain from pleasure though, it's not a bad thing by itself, it's also important, but thought is more important.

>>18859095
>It's a separate faculty
No, it's just an internalization of either pleasure or pain.

>>18859106
We will agree to disagree, I see it as a separate faculty

>>18857585
This. Just take no fap for example, Assuming you consumer a lot of porn every day if you do it you start to enjoy everything more instead of having a dull sense of nothing ness you get when you masturbate nonstop, and if you do fap or have sex after it it's a lot more pleasurable.

>>18857016
So many books refute hedonism that I’m actually more interested in looking for things that support hedonism.

Epicurius obviously promoted the idea of indulging in hedonism in moderation, and the Fin de Seicle movement obviously promoted all manner of debauchery, but I’m wondering if anyone else has really put forward a compelling philosophical argument for why hedonism is a good thing.

>>18857101
This and AIDS

>>18857030
They're just trying to escape the pain of existence and return back to the void.

>>18859591
120 days of sodom
>or the digital jew

>>18859104
>However, this doesn't look like a happy life for a human
Why?