/lit/ - Literature

defence

>>18584005
????
Is /lit/ just not working today or something?

>>18584059
>In our generation's defence, letter writing itself has become all but obsolete in a lot of peoples lives so it stands to reason that our collective abilities have rusted a little as well; but even so, letter (and email) writing is still a major facet of the lives of many people—especially professional persons—and yet in my experience, I rarely see a letter or email of true quality. As a member of the academic staff at a prominent University one would think that this wouldn't be the case but unfortunately it is.
}prolix vert uch it is

>>18584068
uhh...why yes I suppose my post is a bit long but you must have read it all by now. Want to add something?

>>18584120
What is wrong with being direct and succint?

>>18584130
I mean, you are probably aware that there aren't any kings reading this.

>>18584130
Nothing, people from back then were capable of both but it seems like our generation's range is much shorter than theirs prose-wise.

>>18584170
Unironically? Anon, seriously, are you pretending? Just compare the fucking education back then and how it is now. People who were literate back in the day had TUTORS, a single teacher, usually the best among the best who used to dedicate his whole time solely to your education. What the fuck is wrong with you?

>>18583994
uvva day I got a asbo owda
annah fink isz well auta owda
Polis sait Iwwl lechu ofth wifa caushun
Ifth ewe done gifth no distorshun
Butb I sayed "downt boffa Ima guiltee"
"Anna may bazeliwne fukken filfthee"

BIG DIRTY STINKING BASS
DIRTY STINKING BASE
BIG DIRTY STINKINB BASS
BASS Bass bass bass

Ok this is a genuine question. Do you ever get undeserved praise for the writing in your letters? I always write little heartfelt messages for people's birthdays, thank you cards, etc. Even though most of the time the sentimentality of the message is usually fabricated and the whole thing is written as fast as possible, I get constant praise for my letters. Yesterday was my grandma's birthday. She said she cried while reading my card and that it is one of two of the best gifts she ever received. I used flowery language but it really wasn't that good. I'm glad people like my cards but god damn.

>>18584219
I tend to write letters of demand. The terror, threats of violence, and payment are reward int themselves.

>>18584233
are they at least heartfelt?

>>18584219
Fuck this post just made me cry. How are you so good anon?

>>18584261
Stfu, this is a real question. I'm not saying my letters were good, they were shit I know that.

>>18583994
>in most of the educated circles I interact with.
In most of the educated circles with which I interact

On email writing, I know what you mean. My "boss" makes unintelligible typographical errors, and she's a woman. She also has no understanding of apostrophes for the genitive case, and often insists one be added where it should not, or removed where it should be.

>>18584219
Your grandma probably hasn't spoken to a real person in 2 years, so a letter with magniloquent language probably made her feel like someone cares about her. In reality, you don't, and that's funny.

He writes letters in year 2021.

>>18584186
Translation?

>>18584219
I wrote a letter to my father for Father's Day. Normally I just piggyback off my mom's or siblings' gift, so this was a bit different. He really appreciated it. I wish did it earlier.

>>18583994
Dearest O.P.,

I read over your original post, weighed it out in my minds eye, considered your points, formulated a response, swashed it about in my mouth, and now attempt to put pixels to paper.

Have you considered that instant communication makes the formality and length of letters obsolete? A thoughtful page makes sense when one cannot correspond instantly, but with the invention of smartphones one can maintain contact with their friends around the world by way of simple grunts, digitalized and sent hither at the speed of light.

Its neither here nor there, but it is what it is. Perhaps the entire history of technology is a history of human degradation. I often fear this is the case.

Yours truly,
Anonymous.

Postus Scriptus, you are not my servant and I am not your master. Indeed, you are not even my friend. Perhaps if you where not such a fruitcake you would find more willing correspondents. Something to consider.

Dear Sir or Madam (male),

I hope this post finds you well; tell me, how has your day been?
Have you written any letters or emails? Do you usually write any?
Do you put effort into your prose? Do you like your prose?
Have you read something by a non-author which has impressed you?
I shall patiently be awaiting your answers : )

— Sincerely yours, A. Nonymous

>>18584957
Dear Sir,

You claim to have read my post and to have considered my points but if you had done as you said, you must have realised that I had already considered exactly that very point which you now superfluously bring to my attention.
Where? I have reproduced the relevant passage in my original post here for your benefit:
>In our generation's defence, letter writing itself has become all but obsolete in a lot of peoples lives so it stands to reason that our collective abilities have rusted a little as well; but even so, letter (and email) writing is still a major facet of the lives of many people—especially professional persons—and yet in my experience, I rarely see a letter or email of true quality. As a member of the academic staff at a prominent University one would think that this wouldn't be the case but unfortunately it is.
So why do Bussinessmen and Academics write terrible letters and emails? Surely they would want to make a good impression, yet most of the ones I read are not terribly impressive—strange.

I remain respectfully Sir,
Your most Humble and Obedient Servant,
O. Poster

P.S. — I am etc./I remain etc. Your [very/most] humble/obedient, etc. servant has nothing to do with actual servitude, it is simply an expression of one's devotion to another (just like the salutation Dear x) and was even used on occasion by superiors to their inferiors. The founding Yanks would end their letters in this way and they were all ardent republicans who hated rulers and cherished freedom and self-determination—not mention many of them were land owning slavers who were the ones being served if anything. Ironically you use the valediction "yours truly" but this and "sincerely yours" are ultimately derive from older valedictions with the word servant in them. Besides, If you read my post you would see that I made fun of them faggot.
P.P.S. — It's post scriptum not "postus scriptus"; I would assume you were joking but you cannot read.
P.P.P.S. — You are a faggot.

>>18584178
Are you retarded or something?
Modern Education is shit and homeschooling or having a tutor/governess is clearly superior.
Besides, in those days all educated people learned latin and the classes. You're memeing, stop it.

>>18585660
*and the classics
Also Rhetoric, grammar, and logic,
nobody learns this shit anymore lmao.

>>18583994
People spend less time on writing because people spend less time on reading any individual thing. Those who read mostly read one book and then move on to the next, and if they read a message or an email, they never go back and reread them.
For more on this, see Arthur Melzer's Philosophy Between the Lines.

>>18584400
>Genitive case
>English
I hope this is a real term, and not just someone shoehorning it where it doesn't belong.

Blessed thread. Have a bump.

>>18585929
It depends: exceptionally nice letters tend to be cherished but a well written email, especially on the right occasions, are also appreciated by most people. Most people will take the time to read when it's from a friend or colleague.
>Those who read mostly read one book and then move on to the next, and if they read a message or an email, they never go back and reread them.
Did people just like reading back then more than we do nowadays?

Maybe it's because I am left-handed, the devil's hand and all that, but I have had great difficulty in improving my handwriting.
I've put a lot of time and effort in improving it but yet it is still poor in quality. Its honestly the most frustrating part of my life.

>>18587120
>the most frustrating part of my life
God I wish I had you life anon.

>>18587153
Or maybe I just don't have my priorities in order...

>>18587120
Sample? It really isn't so hard friend.

>>18585660
What are you talking about, anon? I stated that what the anon said was was somewhat obvious considering how people were educated at the time.

> muh kings back in the day used to have great letter exchanges with the greatest minds of their time.

Look at the fucking education they used to have. Are you drunk? And this doesn't have much (if anything) to do with the curriculum changes, it is definitely related to receiving personal individual attention during education. But that doesn't matter in the end, anon. This is the reason why people don't do this kind of thing anymore. You are definitely better educating a lot of people.

>>18587655
Oh, I guess I was slightly confused but I still think you're being disingenuous. You realize almost everyone who wrote letters back then were pretty literate by default and lots of people wrote fucking letters. Besides, like OP said, even the plebs would make an effort back then to at least try to look literate. Your point is wrong anon.

>>18589026
>Oh, I guess I was slightly confused but I still think you're being disingenuous. You realize almost everyone who wrote letters back then were pretty literate by default and lots of people wrote fucking letters. Besides, like OP said, even the plebs would make an effort back then to at least try to look literate. Your point is wrong anon.

To look literate? Flowering your shit just because doesn't make it look any better, anon.

>>18589034
And people realized that as soon they started using written language. That is the reason why this kind of thing got 'out of flavor'.

>>18589026
>>18589034
>>18589049
Hello, O.P. here,
>Flowering your shit just because doesn't make it look any better, anon.
But it does...good and expressive prose transfigure the messages one wishes to convey and that is why people use them. Indeed, most people have a natural predilection towards expressing themselves in a way above simple and straightforward sentences anyway (which in most contexts would make you come off as robotic or an autistic), it's simply that nowadays we use, instead of beautiful language and fancy words, expletives, slang, and buzzwords.
Consider this: The language of educated people will no longer be (influenced by) Greek or Latin, those languages are now largely being replaced by the wokist buzzwords students learn in critical race theory, sociology, gender studies, and other Marxist classes. Lots of students sincerely believe that peppering their speech with these words make them sound smarter which is just so strange to me.

>>18589239
But it does...good and expressive prose transfigure the messages one wishes to convey and that is why people use them. Indeed, most people have a natural predilection towards expressing themselves in a way above simple and straightforward sentences anyway (which in most contexts would make you come off as robotic or an autistic), it's simply that nowadays we use, instead of beautiful language and fancy words, expletives, slang, and buzzwords.
Flowering, anon. We are probably not thinking about the same thing. You can enrich your style without any unnecessary flowering. I'm not saying that you must be concise and objetive. But this kind of thing has a place, anon. They belong to ceremonies. People didn't used to met for a long time back when they wrote letters and they also used to take a lot of time to arrive. Now, we do have emails, suppose that every email you receive is written as if it is some kind of ceremony. It is counter-productive. I'm among those who think that a language doesn't tend towards degeneration.

So what if language is changing, anon? This worry of yours is as old as fucking Latin itself. People also felt that newspapers would ruin language, so did the Tv, the internet and whatever.

>>18589411

>I'm among those who think that a language doesn't tend towards degeneration.
I do think the common parlance tends to be lifted up but I agree, this is necessarily degeneration. I do think our culture is becoming more degenerate though.
>So what if language is changing
Aha, I knew you would say this! This point absolutely immaterial, regardless of whether language changes or not I think this specific change is a negative one which I and we as a society (especially the elite spaces) should resist (after all, we are intelligent agents that can act independently of change like this; we are our language's master not the other way around). This doesn't mean I literally want to press the pause button on the evolution of the English language; the use of language is something which has long been regulated in these institutions (viz. business, politics, art, research, and education) and they still are, it's just now the emphasis has shifted culturally—and not materially like you believe (i.e. it has nothing to do with letters between people not being a "ceremony" anymore, that is a corrupted and exaggerated view). There are plenty of societies which have kept on to this sort of thing, it's just that we as a society have shifted from revering the classics, culture, intelligence and propriety to reviling those things.

>>18589780
*this is not necessarily degeneration;

>>18587112
People then read a limited number of extremely high-quality works over and over again from youth until death. Arthur Melzer discusses this extensively in the book, and this is the meaning of the Heidegger quote that people on this board love to post.

>>18589780
I dunno, anon. I still think that this has relation with context. Letters are different from emails and direct messages. How many letters people used to send back then? Distances got shortened, there is absolutely no reason to make ceremonies out of regular things. I'm sure that if you ask someone to write a toast for a marriage or some other special occasion they would probably get similar results as a similar person in the past. If anything, probably a better result because nowadays people have better access to books and culture in general.

>>18584610
>Translation?
You will never be a poet. No matter how hard you lie to yourself you’re not a real poet and you’ve crippled yourself as a prose or business writer.

> uvva day I got a asbo owda
Last week the state declared I was antisocial in my behaviour and prohibited me from actions on pain of criminal sanction
>annah fink isz well auta owda
This was grossly wrong and a sign of a disordered society
>Polis sait Iwwl lechu ofth wifa caushun
The police had, instead of arresting me initially offered instead the lesser penalty of a formal caution
>Ifth ewe done gifth no distorshun
If, substantially and genuinely, I indicated I would not continue in future the behaviour they found offensive
>Butb I sayed "downt boffa Ima guiltee"
I refused their caution as my behaviour was moral and correct, owning up to the behaviour but defying the unjust law
>"Anna may bazeliwne fukken filfthee"
I continued by reprimanding them by asserting my behaviour: the drums and bass guitar of my music is the pinnacle of excellence.

>BIG DIRTY STINKING BASS
>DIRTY STINKING BASE
>BIG DIRTY STINKINB BASS
>BASS Bass bass bass
Play Sandstorm by da rude.

bump.

>>18585060
Really like the Gibson girl look...too bad it's long gone :(