/lit/ - Literature

>>18485472
I think Tolle is a bit of a pseud, but he did have an actual mystical experience that ended his depression, so maybe give his book a shot.

>>18485472
fucking, fighting, or meditating

>>18485472
IME mystical experiences come out of desperation.

If you're comfortable you will tend not to have them

If you're at the end of your physical or mental rope that's when they happen.

Hence the factors i have found are :
>fasting
>isolation
>non-distraction
>emotional desperation leading to radical faith in some or other religious Weltunschlaung
>Sudden change in circumstances /living condition/place

Hitting rock bottom can help too, probably don't wanna go there though

>>18485472
Books where the main character has a deep mystical experience? Something good plz

>>18485472
Just take a bunch of shrooms dude

>>18485536
I don't even like weed, this "just do drugs dude" thing is bad advice

>>18485536
ive done shrooms and while it was a positive experience, it didnt cause a mystical epiphany

>>18485549
No substance can cause a genuine mystical experience

>>18485531
There's Siddhartha by Hesse, just don't think it's an accurate representation of Buddhism, it's really more of a hindu text

>>18485766
Fuck I've read that one, thanks anyway

>>18485766
It's more of a daoist book imo

>>18485472
I actually had a mystic experience 5 years ago, of the 'outer' variety described by some people who study the phenomenon, as opposed to the inner variety, which is the more coventional and complete mystic experience. I can describe it if you are interested

>>18486064
I'm interested.

>>18486064
>of the 'outer' variety
I don't get what that means.

>>18486070
Alright. The primary aspect of the experience is a sensation which we have to give some name to but for which there isn't really an appropriate name. People talk about the ecstasies of the mystics and it is a highly 'good' sensation but for me the word that is closest to it is 'meaning', when you get a sense of something being meaningful, like art, or a relationship with someone, it is like that but incredibly intensified. The world around you does something I can only describe as 'glowing', it's not that you're hallucinating but eveything somehow becomes unbelievably beautiful, like incredible paintings are cohering out of every one of your glances. Inside you there are 3 main things happening, one is that you completely lose your sense of identity(it was actually while musing about the relation between identity and conscious experience that the experience started for me), which means you lose all pride and ego and related feelings, as well as self-loathing, because you lose your sense of self itself entirely. The second thing is a feeling of universal love for everyone, and I mean actually deeply feeling a sense of caring for everyone, this feeling is necessarily mixed with a great deal of sorrow because of the immense tragedy in basically every person and the world in general. The third thing is an unshakeable conviction that you are in contact with some kind of transcendent substance or principle of being, something that is beyond space and time, something that creates harmony and order out of chaos, that creates us ourselves, that we actually are in some sense, that always resides within your moments of conscious awareness but that you have like focused upon and is now streaming through you. This sensation lasted for over a month and it made the world around me alter dramatically, or rather I was behaving so differently that the world altered I guess, though many things happened that felt like they were too perfectly ordained, too coincidental, it is extremely odd to live in a world suddenly totally bereft of conflict, or where you can make every conflict disappear by like 'loving it'. Reality became a kind of living poem or song in some way, everything presented feelings of deep meaning and beauty, I wanted only to help people and to experience and express this meaning and beauty. I had a lot of feelings and ideas related to some idea of God though before this I wasn't religious.

Anyway this experience faded concomittantly with the return of my concepts of self, my ego, pride, etc. I am as a person really not a universally loving, nice, selfless guy, which is why I don't think this experience was mental illness, because it didn't even seem like it was me, but I could be wrong, crazy people don't know theyre crazy. I read about mystic experiences after this and it fits very closely with the type 2, outer variety. In the inner variety you just totally retreat into yourself, like deep states of meditation and revelation I guess.

>>18486249
How were you able to function in daily life if you didn't have an identity/ego anymore?

>>18486263
It made functioning a lot easier because I realized that like 95% of the conflict in interpersonal relations is a kind of mutual jousting game of narcissism. When you don't have a proper concept of self at all you stop doing this, which allows you to be more attentive to the needs of other people and you don't create conflicts in the interest of protecting your ego. As for work it was easy to devote energy and time to it because I conceived of it as having a lot of meaning like everything else.

I was only in rare moments truly bereft of a concept of self though, it's more that I was deeply aware of these concepts so they didn't affect me as much, but I was still in some ways operating according to ego, this was just a lesser component to my motivation than the other feelings. I think you are right that truly losing your identity only happens in the type 1 mystic experience, which is a necessarily solitary experience, basically just meditation of some kind. I had a kind of half-experience.

>>18486370
So what was left of you exactly? Did you feel like you had somehow fused with a divine substance, or that the boundaries between you and God had eroded?

>>18486263
Also I want to note that I am necessarily not describing this whole thing properly because I am obviously no longer in that state, and my mind is again determined primarily by ego, pride, etc. So my recounting of this is going to be distorted. I am now nothing like I was during that time, again I can't conceive of it as being me at all really, because it was precisely not me, but some transcendent thing unrelated to my identity.

>>18486394
>it was precisely not me, but some transcendent thing unrelated to my identity.
You're making it sound like some kind of possession, unintentionally I'm sure

>>18486188
>I don't get what that means.
I think he means this is REAL SHIT, man, NOT stuff created in his head.

>>18486387
Basically yes, that is what I was trying to express with describing the "meaning'' sensation, which I took to be some kind of divine principle or substance. I did not associate it specifically with God though, for whatever reason God was still 'invisible' but I would see like signs of him and I thought I was supposed to like serve his ultimate purpose I think. I guess it was maybe like how some people describe the holy spirit, but the Father God was still distinct and intangible, i did not feel I had merged with God, but that some divine substance was flowing through me. I am still not entirely sure what i believe about God so my thoughts about this are confused. It might be that what mystics describe as God was a similar sensation and my concept of this 'apart' God is just erroneous, I really don't know.
>>18486398
Like a demonic possession? I guess it is possible but it really didnt seem that way.

>>18486419
No the outer variety means that the person is still engaging with the outside world and the experience is like embedded in it. It is a kind of half-mystic experience, not as complete as the inner variety. This is how the book I read explained these categories anyway.

And it could obviously be stuff created in my head. I have thought a lot about that possibility that it is just delusionand mental illness.

>>18486426
>Like a demonic possession?
Or just being inhabited by some other being, not necessarily demonic, but the fact that you said you couldn't identify this feeling as being yourself makes it seem like you were "emptied" of your individuality which was temporarily replaced by something else.

mastering the core trachings of the buddha 2 or the mind illuminated

>>18486448
Well it felt like more myself than I was myself. It's hard to explain with words, but being that I now have a concept of self again when I say it wasn't me I mean it wasn't how I conceive of myself now. The whole thing was really predicated on this distinction between your awareness and idea of yourself.

>>18486451
Mysticism is union with God, buddhism is atheistic

>>18485472
The Crest Jewel of Discrimination is a classic

>>18486463
You felt like you had tapped into the real you, or something like that? What people usually call higher self?
So you were self-aware but not in the same way as you are now, which is tainted by things such as pride and whatnot. Is this a good way to put it?

>>18486475
Maybe that is the correct way to put it. The higher self I felt identified with was a universal though, something that is in everyone. I had the distinct impression also that it was just like 'given' to me, I was receiving something flowing through me. The basic feeling was that this thing is present in all awareness but usually obstructed by ego, etc.

>>18486500
>something that is in everyone
>I was receiving something
Yeah that does sound like the holy spirit.

>>18485472
burn in hell

>>18486779
Why are you seething?

>>18485531
Bump for this

>>18486828
Valis

>>18485472
Sometimes these great euphoric moments of transcendental sublime hit me randomly. I cool it down with gore videos on /gif/.

>>18486438
>This is how the book I read explained these categories anyway.
What book was it?

>>18485508
>Weltunschlaung
axaxaxaxxaaxxaxaax
you idiot

>>18486973
It seems schizoid enough, thank you

Bump

Religions, values and peak-experiences by Abraham Maslow

>>18485472
Tale of a Pilgrim

>>18488083
All of PKD is like this

bump

>>18485508
this

>>18485531
Collected poetry of John of the Cross.

>>18485472
If Christian, you should not seek mystical experiences by yourself. You need to pray a lot and find a spiritual director to guide you.

>>18491906
>needing an intermediary for spirituality
Doesn't this sound weird to you?

>>18491914
it should. that said, praying is a meditative practice that often results in increased concentration, willpower, and compassion if practiced correctly.

>>18491919
How do you practice prayer correctly?

>>18491906
>>18491914
It’s very easy to fall into error. At the risk of being a one trick pony, Tomberg talks about the “false holy spirit” in his letter on the world card. The Spirit can bring you joy, but he’s absolutely correct that it should be a corollary to truth.
St. Teresa’s Interior Castle is short and discusses practices. The Rosary is a really good regular practice to cultivate the qualities mentioned above. Try to be very regular with your praying and be very deliberate if you ask for anything. Better to try to conform yourself to God’s will than to ask for stuff.

>>18491981
Second paragraph is two cents for >>18491919
>>18491944
I used to meditate a lot and it took me a lot of places. I have toddlers now so instead I pray while walking the dog, it has also taken me a lot of places. Letter on the Hermit is another good one.

>>18491944
i've only had one successful prayer. it was a mystical experience that cannot be expressed in words. entirely non-conceptual response, in which i was given everything i had ever asked for.

>How
you have to go beyond the words of your prayer. i recommend sitting in a quiet place until you're more experienced. you'll come to realize that your physical position and location has no bearing on the quality of response you'll receive from prayer. you can pray in any condition, under any circumstances-- this is something that can never be taken from you. but to answer;

control your breathing
be fully present in body and mind
ask

i have never had success praying for material things. the night i prayed for an immaterial good, i was blessed.

>>18491981
>Better to try to conform yourself to God’s will than to ask for stuff.
transcendentally based

>>18486465
t. never read a single sutra or tantra

>>18485472
>ctrl-F "Weil"
>no Simone Weil
Read Gravity and Grace.

>>18492046
It's true, retard. Fuck off with your death cult

>>18492351
filtered desu

>>18492366
>filtered by "how to become an npc: the religion"
Sure I don't mind

>>18492369
is this that thing where you troll and post the wrong answer in hope that someone spoon feeds you the right answer? i'm willing to do it but only if you'll open your mind for the conversation

>>18492379
Cry me a river, faggot. Don't care about your death cult, go shitpost in a guenon thread

>>18492382
i offered an honest explanation. others will do the same later in life should you change your mind

live well

>>18492389
No explanation (read: word games) needed, I know all I need to know about your religion

>>18492393
>I know all I need to know
oh? enlighten me

>>18492418
This isn't the thread to talk about your annihilationist pajeet garbage, why do you people feel the need to attention whore in threads that aren't even tangentially related to your beliefs? Just fuck off

>>18492433
>Best books about mystical experiences and how to achieve them?

the removal of ignorance is a mystical experience.

if you're as knowledgeable about the buddha's teachings as you claim, then why are you angry?

Huxley and God. Essays on Religious experience.

Here's the gist of it.
Basically it comes down to, mysticism should be treated empirically. The proper method for divine vision should be found.
There is a strong suspicion from personal testimony that one must be "pure in heart to see God." There are mystical laws or rules of nature that when followed lead to mystical experiences. It appears the method is meditation and living a wholly good life.
What is a good life? Exemplifying universal love, kindness and compassion to humanity and the universe. Helping those in need, reducing suffering, etc...

>>18485472
Plotinus, The Enneads

>>18492443
You're the one seething because I called out your bullshit; there are no mystical experiences in buddhism because it's a cult of annihilation that explicitly says there is no God, i.e. no almighty creator.
Your smugness tells me everything I need to know, you are unintelligent and a coward (which is why you turned to buddhism)
Don't bother replying, I'm not interested in what you have to say, it'll just be another quippy cope hidden behind a smug facade of false equanimity, the trademark of "western buddhists". Go embarrass yourself somewhere else

>>18492446
Am I wrong to have doubts about Huxley because of this? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8502037

>>18492457
desu have a nice day

>>18492447
Can you really have a mystical experience purely through contemplation?

>>18492660
I think so, with truly deep contemplation

>>18486394
Same exact thing happened to me. I also felt like I was able to write poetry about literally anything. I could start with any event or imagery and coax the meaning out of it in a poem. I thought it would last forever, but it's been gone for a couple years. I think I feel myself ascending back toward that state now, though. If I reach it again I'm going to write about it as much as I can. Now that it's gone, I wish I'd done that before.

This is the most practical answer

>>18492818
I've started reading it but I can't find similarities and recurring symbols in my dreams so I'm fucked
Also I don't think lucid dreaming is mystical but maybe I'm wrong

>>18492457
>explicitly says there is no God
Buddha talks to God the Creator in the Majjhima Nikaya, and he discusses the possibility of union with Him in the Anguttara Nikaya (through a technique called the brahmavihara: Abodes of God). It's all well and good that you are satisfied with your own convictions; why get so angry about others' convictions that you would lie about them?

>>18492859
>Buddha talks to God the Creator in the Majjhima Nikaya
...To tell him he's misguided and ignorant and not actually the creator since creation is attributed to the infinite cycle of dependent origination. All gods including Brahman are said to be inferior to the tathagata. For all intents and purposes it's a denial of God. You're the one who's lying

>>18492910
>For all intents and purposes it's a denial of God.
? God is identified as a stage on the way to extinction, where someone seeking sainthood would stop. That's hardly equivalent to saying "there is no god".

>>18492982
>God is identified as a stage
Yeah which is why it's annihilationist. It also says that salvation is temporary and that there is no soul, which is nonsense.
But I'm not interested in debating buddhist doctrine because I think it's bullshit from start to finish and it's off-topic anyway

>>18492845
>I can't find similarities and recurring symbols in my dreams
Any help for this?

>>18485531
thomas the obscure

>>18485670
Untrue, all experience is substantially influenced in the brain.

>>18490983
Do Androids is not too far out

>>18493286
bump

>>18493286
>>18494045
In my experience you do not need to gather symbols and write them in your dream journal to have lucid dreams. The only tasks I did were reality checking throughout the day and telling myself "You will now lucid dream" repeatedly at night. While I could induce lucid dreams it was only around once a week and I stopped because it wrecked my sleep quality since I would awake mid-dream from the adrenaline during from what I think was the most important time of the REM cycle. The book even encourages this with methods like the "wake back to bed" technique.

>I've started reading it
It took me almost 3 weeks after reading to see results

>>18494187
>telling myself "You will now lucid dream" repeatedly at night
I can never manage to fall asleep while I'm doing that, I either lose focus or stay awake, how do you do it?

>>18493545
Drugs are not a fast track to spiritual realization

>>18485472
The mind illuminated.

>>18494196
I did not exclusively repeat that mantra in my head till I fell asleep, although it is an important phrase to internalize.
I would also voluntarily not move an inch of my body to trick myself that it is unconscious to try to induce a sort of pseudo-sleep paralysis. While doing this intense hypnagogic imagery would become more and more vivid and I would try to immerse myself in these environments. I also remember envisioning a lot of open, wide-spanning fields because I think the book made a highlight of doing this. The point of this was to imagine these landscapes and as they gradually became more vivid and your brain gradually drifts to the dream state, you would seamlessly be lucid dreaming. Mind you, I did this for 1-3 hours each night and it only worked 1/7th of the time.

>>18494444
>I did this for 1-3 hours each night and it only worked 1/7th of the time.
So it's a relatively unpredictable method as far as effectiveness goes. Still I'll try it, thanks for your advice.