/lit/ - Literature

I've been studying violently murdered cowardism, so that I can read posts like this

>>18374662
VMC, excellent choice but are you fluent?

>>18374657
im learning the language of love so that I may someday woo a woman

Have been learning German for a year, but not exaustively. It's a tough one.

>>18374662
I'm not murdered, at least not yet.

French

9 months into french

feel disheartened that i cant yet read classics --there are so many words!

Latin, but my interest has waned a bit recently. I'm at that awkward point where intro textbooks and instructional texts are too easy and boring, but actual texts are still frustratingly difficult.

>>18374712
I've been at this stage with Russian for a year
Might never leave it desu

>>18374712
For a while you just have to grind reading more or less with a dictionary in hand and try to absorb all the new vocab, it takes a lot of patience but it'll get you to where you want to be faster.

>>18374712
Same. There are so many odd grammatical constructions that aren't explained in the beginner textbooks because they don't appear frequently enough. When they do appear, though, they're enough to screw up parsing the entire sentence.
For instance: apparently the infinitive can also be used as a third person imperfect. Don't remember seeing that in LLPSI.

>>18374657
Japanese. I’ve only been at it for a couple of months but I’m a bit burned out on it already. Personally, I’m like the most depressed and miserable I’ve ever been so that hasn’t been helpful but even that aside, it’s gone from fun to not fun doing what seems like nonstop seasons of anki, watching subbed kid shows that I can’t even understand, and reading grammar and pitch books.

>>18374759
がんばれ. I was like that for a long time, stuck in a beginner level of Japanese, where I would make a new anki deck, do it for a few months, then get fed up and quit, repeating every year or so. Last May at the height of corona panic I picked it up again and I haven't stopped since. The trick is really simple - just get skilled enough to do something you enjoy with the language. Japanese is great because there are countless options here, you can play untranslated video games and brag about it, or browse Japanese sites to see what people are talking about, or make friends from Japan. The struggle with learning a language for literature is that reading real literature is one of the last things you'll be able to do in the learning process, whereas simple conversation and so on comes first. So you really need to find something you'll enjoy, to make the learning process not miserable, and only then will that feeling of wanting to stop go away.

Also, eventually grammar gets more intuitive. As a beginner it feels like textbooks often don't explain stuff or omit it because it's supposed to be obvious, when you have no clue how you're meant to read it, but that's also something that comes with time. If you have any questions, I can help a bit

>>18374738
It's not just vocabulary. It's idioms and unusual grammatical constructions.

>>18374740
The best thing is a nicely annotated text (like https://geoffreysteadman.com/).). But those tend to be short and limited.

I think I'll go back to the Vulgate or some medieval latin. Those are so much simpler.

>>18374805
>idioms
Don't you have some kind of resource with which to look these up?
>grammatical constructions
This too, check out some grammar books.

same as >>18374712 's case, excepté en francais

English

French using a mixture of a grammar book, a reading book, and assimil
Je pense que je pourrai bientôt lire un livre pour enfants.

https://mega.nz/#F!x4VG3DRL!lqecF4q2ywojGLE0O8cu4A
See if this helps anyone

>>18374814
>This too, check out some grammar books.
That's how I eventually figured out the existence of the "historical infinitive". But before that, I thought I was looking at a contracted third person plural perfect, and I spent a good ten minutes trying to figure out the subject.
Still, though, thank God for that one university that digitized that one grammar book.
>>18374805
>medieval Latin
Isn't that a good way to form bad reading habits?

>>18374839
>Isn't that a good way to form bad reading habits?

Better than not reading at all, or staring uncomprehending at a text.

>>18374843
Guess so, huh.
Gestae Romanorum looks interesting enough, too.

What should I do to motivate myself to learn a new language?
Because I find it extremely hard to motivate myself to do basic shit, like shower, do chores or even exercise, how do I elevate myself to do such a feat as learn a new language?

>>18374923
Have a reason to, whether it be a degree requirement, a certain author, or a job.

>>18374932
What if I just want to learn for my own sake?

>>18374836
Thanks for this anon. I found an old grammar book for my parents’ native language which is mainly spoken in East Africa. Funnily enough the book was designed for the use of Evangelical missionaries, and the region where the language is spoken has been overwhelming Christian since the 5th century.

>>18374657
Spanish. Generally slow progress, but I was at Uni and couldn't dedicate much time to it. I've finished now, and have been spending much more time working with it. I'd consider myself at an upoer beginner or lower intermediate level, and really need to find some books to read in Spanish. I've been tackling an academic history book but it's markedly above my skill level, and I need to find some simpler material.

Russian and Japanese

>>18374923
Just browse imageboards like you do now but in another language
And if you need a method to motivate yourself then you're ngmi

Its my 4th attempt to relearn german, I go through it this time.

>japanese - by myself
studied everyday for about 3 years, based on practice exams I think I could pass n1 pretty easily. read more books in japanese than english this year and last year. listening comprehension is pretty good if the speaker is a young woman. Still encounter lots of new words for topics I am not familiar with and long/ complex/ abstract/ metaphorical sentences can take me a while to get my head around.
>chinese - uni
middle of 2nd year, exam next week and I am not confident but too lazy to study.
>french - by myself
basically stopped, no progress for like 2 years

>>18374657
I want to learn german but don't know how to

English
US English
Bopomofo
Meta'
Interlingue
Emoji
Symbols
Pollard Phonetic
Phags-pa
Common
Mathematical notation
Fraser
Unknown language
Unified Canadian Aboriginal Syllabics
Imperial Aramaic
New Tai Lue

>>18374657
Lerne schon seit fast zwei Jahren Deutsch lernen. Habe entschieden Latein zu lernen. Hab' schon ein paar Bücher gekauft, aber noch nichts darum gemacht.

>>18374923
>Because I find it extremely hard to motivate myself to do basic shit, like shower, do chores or even exercise
You're probably depressed, go see a specialist.

>>18375689
Start with anything. Duolingo even, people give it a lot of shit but it's a decent starting point if you read the inbuilt lessons to help understand the grammar. You can find these useful "Teach Yourself" books very cheap which are good for grammar as well. Read forums about how you should learn nouns and verbs, then start trying to think of things you generally write or read about, or see in daily life, in German as well. If you don't know, then you check a dictionary. If you can speak or write with Germans that is also very useful especially if they give you feedback.

I want to learn Russian once my exams are over. I already know the alphabet and some basic shit.

>>18374657
I know British English
American English
Australian English
New Zealand English
Canadian English
England English
Scotland English
Wales English
Northern Ireland English
And all the english speaking countries

>>18375042
Read "Los Vecinos Mueren en las Novelas".

I speak english, arabic, and spanish. Trying to pick up turkish. Massive pain in the ass, what a shit language to learn

What is the best method to learn French and how long would it take to be proficient in it?

>>18375678
that is pretty cool, I was going to doubt you about N1 but if you actually read that many books in the language then I believe you. Gl on the chinese as well, good choice

>>18376274
IIRC the official US Army listing for it was 500 hours. German is 750 hours which is slightly longer than most other Romance/Germanic languages for ESLs

>>18376360
>ESLs
Oops. Meant native English speakers

>>18376360
Sweet sweet. How does the Army teach french?

>>18374657
Already can speak english, german, french and am learning italian and spanish.

>>18376454
I can't remember if it was the Army or the CIA now that I think about it. May have even been the Department of Foreign Affairs or something. Either way it was an important branch of the US Government.

>>18374657
Working on Ancient Greek. On chapter 10 of Athenaze Book 1. Commiting the ass loads of paradigms is daunting but I made recordings of them so I can listen to them on repeat as I walk. They have become like daily chants kek.

>>18376454
>>18376557
The FSI (Foreign Service Institute) trains diplomats and their courses from the 70s are all easy to find online. Beware, it is a grind though.

>>18374798
>The trick is really simple - just get skilled enough to do something you enjoy with the language.
I don’t know what that would be. I like reading obviously. I suspect it would take me quite a long time to be able to read a novel and some time to read a light novel or even manga. How long was it before you were able to read about the reading level to read manga or subbed anime? I think if I were able to do that, I would at least have enough material to keep my attention.

>>18377047
The first time I tried that was with Yotsubato, straight after finishing Genki. It was pretty much gibberish and hurt my motivation to learn a lot, but then I went and read Tae Kim which explains all these essentials of casual speech (90% of what you read in manga) and then went back to Yotsubato to slowly make sense of it. This is the hardest part of learning the language, undeniably, because you have to read a full grammar book before you can piece it together, and it's like clawing your way in because a lot of really basic stuff isn't explained intuitively, it's a struggle to get good at it.

Anyway, I would suggest not thinking of it in terms of time, and start thinking in terms of material. What have you studied so far? Have you finished reading any grammar books? If so, you can start a simple manga like Yotsubato. It won't be easy, but it's like ripping a band-aid off: Everyone has to do it at some point. It will hurt, then the worst part is over and it only gets easier from there on. Just don't get defeatist at this point and think stuff like, "Wow, even this manga for children defeated me, I'm doomed". You're reading actual Japanese for the first time, probably almost unrecognizable from how it looked in the textbooks. After you get over the initial struggle, it's just a downhill curve towards fluency, the hardest part is over.

If you have any more questions, you can ask me. I plan on taking JLPT N2 this Winter.

>>18377091
I’m reading Tae Kim right now but I haven’t finished it. Otherwise, I normally do 10 new cards per day from a 2,000 words deck on Anki and I spend like a half an hour watching Japanese subbed anime which I use that learning Japanese with Netflix app or Animelon but it is still totally unintelligible to me. But like I said, for the last few weeks I’ve been really unmotivated and skipped a lot. If I could start reading manga or watching subbed anime and at least understand it somewhat, I would be really happy but right now I’m just investing multiple hours daily to expose myself to stuff that is basically completely unintelligible. It’s quickly become not fun and feeling like it’s going to take eons before I can understand this language.

>>18377136
Yeah you should honestly just put down the anime for now, and also I would shelve the anki as well. It's a controversial opinion but I'm not a believer in these 2k/6k decks, or even using decks that other people have made for you. Personally I think it's better to expose yourself to the language a ton and add stuff to a personal anki deck when you feel like it, so you instead learn a lot of words through exposure and the rest through anki. Using other people's decks in Anki has only made learning feel like a chore, even if they're well-made, and I don't recommend it.

For now, you should just hone in on going through Tae Kim. You can honestly just read it once and fly through it, there's no need to study it - it's more of a reference book than anything else. That said, it's still a good idea to do listening practice at this stage if you start small (AKA using practice material from workbooks that are made to be easy, see >>>/t/1035799). But above all else, don't burn yourself out. Learning grammar for the first time is enough of a task, don't burden yourself with all that other stuff, just take it slow.

>>18374657
I'm learning japanese right now, arround the same level as you i guess (i can read things like fate stay night and harder web novels now so i'm pretty happy).
After that i will learn and (read the canons in chronoligical orders)sanskrit, then greek, then latin, then arabic;then italian/ftench (french is my mother tongue), then german.
Then maybe spanish and russian.Might take some time though.

>>18374759
For grammar, dolly youtube gramar guide really helped, and also not reading to learn but to enjoy (also i feel that perfectly undertand a few anime episode and lisetning to the audi multiple time got me out of a place where i was stuck).

>>18374834
>Je pense que je pourrai bientôt lire un livre pour enfants.
Bonne chance mon ami, quand tu aura finis d'apprendre le francais je te conseille de regarder la série de comédie Kameloot, qui est véritablement excellente.

>>18375678
gl on chinese, I'm also studying chinese. Have you tried evaluating your hsk level?

Any good German lessons on youtube?
And what about newspapers? I thought there was a site or app that basically tested you, something like hovering over phrases to get the english and as you got better more English words would be removed. Any idea what this was?

Should I learn portugese/lit/?
How is the Literature?
Will I be able to easily learn spanish and italian too?

>>18377247
The logic I was handed was basically “the more you expose yourself to, the faster you’ll learn”, which is great because I do want to get as good as possible as fast as possible but it’s quickly turned into a very long daily chore. You’re right. Anki especially feels like a chore.

>>18377287
How do you actually enjoy it though? I actually do like manga and anime but I don’t like kid stuff, and that’s obviously what I’ll be starting out with.

>>18374657
Started learning french a few months ago. I already got figured the grammar so I pretty much can read elementary-level stuff. Haven't practiced much, but I'm sure I can start reading higher level stuff this year

>>18374712
Welcome to reality. It's good to see a honest post in this cesspit where every third poster is supposedly fluent in Latin after three months of half assed self study.

japanese desu. i'm part lazy part stupid and part weak-willed. took myself down to 100 per day in anki because >notime and burnout, but i keep at it every day. reading up on grammar every weekend but barely learned a thing. been around six months now and still struggling reading cat captions on instagram, i can't read shit, i can't retain for shit. i gotta get off my ass and re-read grammar all the way from the start and give yotsuba a try. one day i will be good enough to read spring snow again.

>>18374738
i know that feel bro

>>18377331
Some time ago i was cocklocking myself (do not read because it is too hard, do not read that that will waste your enjoyement) eventually i just started reading the things i enjoyed anyway (i'm reading mushoku tensei right now). Porn games are easy to read too if you like them.
Also at some point i just started finding things i had a hard time reading much easier (which seemed to be a direct result of the quantity of line i read in a porn game because i wanted to know what happens.)
The true one anki deck also helped a bit (mainly for kanji) and i'm also reading mainly with a monolingual dictionary now (but if there are words i don't undertand in a definiton i will look it up in english, you can set up your anki to have the english or jap definiton pop-up depending of the button you touch) so it's much slower but i absolutely undertand every pharase i'm reading.
What really got me to that intermediate level was dolly lessons (making grammar much more compact and sensical), reading to satisfy my curiosity and the one true deck (Unless you intend to read dies irae or kk, you'll probably be fine).

>>18374657
I'm interested in French literature, so I think I'll learn it in the future. Now I intend to improve my own language and my English.

>>18377320
Same question

>>18377367
Organic Japanese with Cure Dolly? Is that it?

Latin, using LLPSI (along with plenty of other grammatical/linguistic work)

One of the best intellectual decisions I've made, it's been immensely rewarding so far and I'm only scratching the surface. I started in order to better understand the Renaissance writers and thinkers but I believe it's worth it for its own sake

>>18377475
Yes.

>>18377328
Yeah that's the kind of thing you want to avoid, when it starts to feel like a chore you're getting dangerously close to burnout, which is when you basically lose the ability and drive to keep learning and it takes a hard reset of at least a few weeks to several months until you're good to go again. Forcing yourself into stuff above your skill level is especially prone to causing burnout. For that reason, don't force yourself into subbed anime unless it's actually within your skill level. I've heard K-On! is really easy for most people, but if that's above your skill level too then it's a good idea to stick with audio questions from textbooks for the time being. Even if they're easy, practicing with them helps train your brain to responding aurally to the sounds of Japanese and it will help in the long run to make things easier going forward. The hard part about listening is that your brain isn't yet wired to respond to Japanese as a language with actual meaning rather than gibberish, so you have to train it to pick up meaning from the words. This takes time. So don't be afraid to lower the difficulty of your practice material, because it helps more than you think.

>>18377293
this is the second time i've seen you shill Kameloot, is it really that good? je vous demande parce que je suis en plein rohmer/truffaut bingewatching et les séries sont usuellement beaucoup plus time consuming

>>18374923
Get the small shit sorted first. I've been there man and it sucks, but you can't expect to succeed in these large undertakings and you can't even keep yourself clean.

The other anon might be right about seeing a therapist. Good luck

>>18377550
C'était pas forcément moi (Kamelott est extremement populaire en france) et ca vaut vraiment le coup, c'est ce que la france a produit de plus drole.Le language est assez complexe par contre (la comédie joue beaucoup sur le language, notammment le mélange des différents registres.)

Well, originally, I had wanted to start by learning something easy like Spanish or French - not German, though perhaps for later (Kant) - and I couldn't decide, so while also wanting to read the classics I settled then on Latin which was enjoyable. But then I wanted something that would be of more practical use so I tried learning Mandarin Chinese, but gave up because I read the greentext and grew tired of it, then thinking I could escape with what had I gathered so far to Classical Chinese. In the end, I think I've settled on not trying to learn a language to speak to people because I realised I do not want to speak to people, and would rather learn a language as an intellectual activity, so I've decided on Sanskrit which is more difficult that Latin, more obscure than Chinese, and has many big-brained classics written in it. Unfortunately, my lack of willpower has endured and I am under immense psychic stress writing this as I have in the back of my mind the kinds of people to which the midwit learning of Sanskrit is most familiar, but I am thankful it is a complicated, dead language and so I do not need to do the needfuls, needed as you might for becoming fluent as a native.

>>18374657
I've been learning French on and off for years and feel butthurt at myself every other week for still not being proficient.

>>18377836
God imagine depriving yourself of an entire language due to following the 4chan hivemind
Come on man

What’s the best way to learn and memorise french grammar? I’ve got present, futur simple, and passe composé done pat so far

>>18374712
Maybe try the Vulgate? Was much easier for me to read than Virgil and especially Cicero.

>>18377315
binge watch easy german on yt

>>18376269
Why would anyone do this?

>>18375502
>>18375811
>>18377552
Thank you for the advice anons.
I have been seeing a specialist, and it's looking like adult ADHD.
I have the update meeting within the next week. Wish me luck

>>18374657
Spanish because I'm a normie

>>18374657
Does it worth to learn Japanese? I tried a couple of months ago but I started second guessing because some people told me it is useless so now I'm doing nothing with languages.

>>18378315
fug that pic rel sounds a lot like me

>>18374940
Clearly learning for your own sake hasn't been working out for you.
Define yourself a reason.

>>18377881
>4chan hivemind
Not that anon but running away from anything chinese is always a good decision, and that has fuckall to do with 4chan

>>18374657
I know German and English well enough to read and communicate. In my free time I study Japanese and Russian. Japanese because I plan to visit Japan soon, and I want to talk to the locals. And Russian because I am horny for Russian women, and I need a Russian cutie badly.
>>18378391
There is always use in knowing a language. Also it's just fun to see native speakers reach to you knowing their mother tongue

>>18377338
It's taken me years of half assed self study to get to an intermediate level. I don't know that I'll ever get to real fluency.

I can’t decide if I want to learn German, Italian, French, or Spanish. I’m American so my native language is English and I can read Greek and Latin but that’s all and it’s been a long time.

French, I took 4 years of it in High School and didn't learn anything. But I'm gonna start up again today because of this thread

>>18378425
Go get checked out

>>18374819
Moi aussi, je vais lire avec un dictionnaire pour essayer d’apprendre.

>>18380209
bonne chance, mon cher Anon! le plus important c'est la persévérance

>>18378315
THIS FUCKING PICTURE.

>>18380239
What about it?

Baguette person here. I learnt English while reading fan translations of xanxia novels and LitRPGs. Most of the learning was done during the first year after I started reading Legendary Moonlight Sculptor, I literally couldn't get past a chapter without a dictionary, then I sometimes needed it for difficult words and now I'm fine without it. Reading books written in English has been my hobby for 7 years now and I think I know more words in English than in my first language.
I'll either learn Arab or Chinese after I'm done with the classics. I'm not sure yet.

>>18380253
Hits too close to home.

>>18380268
Like I said to the other anon, go talk to a doctor to see if you can be recommended for treatment.
That's what I did.

>>18380262
Well done :)

I've been working on κοινη for a few years now. As retarded as this sounds, I initially committed to it so I could read Marcus Aurelius. I ended up focusing on the bible instead since it's easier with all the resources available and now I might end up converting since I've been reading a lot on Christianity in general.

>>18380871
Fantastic

>>18380871
Kek what resources do you use and how long did it take you

Would like to learn Chinese or Vietnamese, but tones seem impossible to master without an instructor.

Could go to a Confucius Institute for Chinese language classes, although I'd prefer to try to learn Vietnamese due to its usage of a Latin alphabet (which isn't too good of a tradeoff anyway since Vietnamese has more tones than Mandarin).

>>18381590
Learn Vietnamese.

I speak Portuguese and English, these are the next languages I'd like do learn, in what order should I do it?
>Latin
>Italian
>German
>Spanish
>French
>Ancient Greek

>>18374657
Python and C++

>>18374657
1.5 year into German and 5 month into Japanese. It's tough but that feeling when you actually understand shit is what kept me learning more and more.

>>18374657
Trying German. Shit's bonkers, but they don't right books about German colonialism in English.

Trying German. Shit's bonkers, but they don't write books about German colonialism in English. Wondering if my Goethe Institut classes will actually be worth it.

>>18374657
Been learning French, Japanese, and ASL.
Currently on a 665 day streak on French, Japanese must be on the 8 month mark and ASL 3-4 months approximately.
ASL has been the easiest one so far, although Spanish is my maternal language and makes French far easier, French is still a bitch.

>>18374657
German is surprisingly easy, but vocab as hard as always

I can Read English, Arabic and Russian, and now im getting to reasonable level of proficiency with Italian, so that im wondering whats next.
French and Latin are the two big ones. Particularly Lain, though im not sure i can justify that. French is almost as interesting and at least has it's use.

I've also considered Chinese but the split between new and classical has me worried.I could justify the time investment if i, at least, felt it was more then a lit indulgence.

I feel like I'm too retarded to learn anything complicated I'd actually like to learn
Like Russian, Japanese, biblical languages

>>18374657
I've been putting off learning a language because I've been so busy, but I'm about to start my masters in the fall so I'm thinking of getting the ball rolling over summer and trying to come out fluent. Torn between japanese, latin, and Russian. Japanese because I'm a weeb and wanna read manga w/o having to wait/rely on scans, Russian because I love Russian literature and memes, and latin because its basically a cheat code for other romance languages, plus I'd get to read old christian texts. Dunno what do bros

>>18374680
If I can master just this ...

>>18382037
Although all this might have to wait since my new neighbor is retired pianist and i dont want to miss that chance.

should I learn portugese?
is there good literature?
will I be able to learn italian and spanish easily too?

>>18374923
see a therapist immediately, I've wasted 8 years because I havent

>>18382443
Are you’re gonna camp out in his music room or something

>>18382969
Music is tough.
The man is a great Russian pianist, now in his mid 80's.
That he's offered to teach me is great opportunity.

>>18374657
i'm aware of my limited time on earth. i'm not going to waste it learning obscure languages for the lulz.

>>18383203
Ohh that’s cool I thought you were just going to passively watch him play

>>18374657
I’m reviewing my high school French and learning polish from some old textbooks online. Hope to learn German and Latin one day.

>>18374657
I want to learn Russian, German, French and Japanese.

To experienced people, which language among the list I have given is the easiest and the hardest to learn? Where should I start?

>>18382163
You aren't gonna come out fluent in a season that's for sure.

>>18374657
I'm a native Portuguese speaker. I'm trying to learn Spanish by myself.

Starting in September I will start having french classes. I plan to learn the basics by myself during the summer so I can jump straight to intermediate level.

>>18377320
>>18377408
Excellent poetry, although hard to read for non fluent speakers I imagine. There is also some very good novels of course, but I don't think that Portuguese language literature is particularly distinguished on that point.

You will be able to comprehend Spanish if you read it slowly with the help of a dictionary. You will also understand it if the speaker does not go too fast and uses a simple vocabulary. However, you will in no way learn to speak it. To became fluent in a language you need to learn that language and keep at it for many years, there is no other way around it.

For Italian, the same applies, but harder.

Did German when I was 12, I can speak and understand it but I'm not the best. Got these books on ancient languages, gonna start doin' Sumerian grammar for fun.

>>18382497
I'm already am.

>>18383925
I was thinking of doing Italian.
Y'know, to talk to family in the home country

>>18381677
Learning Latin would make the other ones easier

what is fluency in a language? ignoring the usual drivel meant to inspire one to not get frustrated with said language, that drivel being "fluency is basically knowing a few words and making light conversation"; can anyone specify what, according to him, is fluency?
is it wit? a wide vocabulary? to manage light conversations about weather and simultaneously be able to discuss Kantian philosophy using the language in question, whatever that may be?

>>18385650
I’d be happy with B1 level in french

>>18385718
you'll make it anon, i have faith in you

>>18379212
Bonne chance mon amie

>>18385770
Merci anon j’espère que vous allez parler couramment en n’importe quelle langue que vous voulez

>>18385650
fluency is a spectrum

>>18385650
I know it's a basic bitch answer but it's relative. I think C2 (the highest level for a foreigner to reach to be considered 100% fluent) requires being able to comprehend almost anything, being able to express oneself correctly and smoothly in either arguments or storytelling (which requires mastery of the past tense like the historic, perfect, pluperfect, imperfect etc) and understatement of the culture at a high level.
Besides that, to be a absolutely fluent, you have to reach a higher level at which eloquence, a university level vocab, and wide knowledge are required. Can you read that language's literature beyond the surface level? Can you understand/recognize verbs in the literary tenses? Do you know how to construct complex grammar in both written and oral form? Can you use rhetorical flourishes off the cuff?
At this stage you'll be above most native speakers but, at the end of the day, is it really needed?

>>18385718
I used to be fluent in French (ie. I could think full sentences in French) but stopped after my teacher went postal. :(
I wouldn't mind taking it up again.

>>18387496
Then you weren't fluent. Once you're fluent you're fluent forever

>>18387525
I feel like there's more to language than there is to riding a bicycle. I mean, I've been playing guitar for twenty-some years, and in a really bad depression i stopped playing for several months; when I picked it back up, I was hella rusty. I've noticed the same thing with my German and French--I've never been to C2 on either of them, so I can't say my perfect fluency got rusty, but I can tell you I was tested at B2 end of college and there's no way I'm still at that level after years of relative neglect.

>>18387525
It's waned without constant practice, but I still can think simple sentences completely in French.
I'm more surprised you didn't comment on the whole postal part

>>18387525

You aren't fluent forever, you can still forget.

However, thinking full sentences in French is probably not fluent.

>>18387633
Then what is considered fluent?

>>18387607
This

>>18385718
takes like 4 months kek

>>18387525
No, this is anecdotal but I know some people who moved to a different country, didn't use their native language for decades, and almost completely forgot it.

>>18374657
The big one I am working on is Ancient Greek. I suck. I did well with Latin and put Latin on hold to study Greek. I did this because I do classics and biblical studies. I am fairly good at Hebrew and Aramaic, having gone as far as my university will allow in both of those languages, which, unfortunately, isn't as far as I'd like. This summer, I will be studying Aramaic with the only other student Aramaic student at my 30k+ university. We'll start with some Dead Sea Scrolls next week, and maybe, we'll see where we go from there. That'll be fun, but getting good at Greek--that's going to suck.

>>18375009
Anon, if you ever come back to this thread, is your parents' language Ge'ez or Amharic?

>>18376559
Also learning Greek via Athenaze, I fucking hate that book. I'm on book 2 chapter 20. Although not a direct comparison but one that you might be able to relate to, Wheelock is so much better.

>>18387795
>Aramaic
holy based...

>>18387898
>I fucking hate that book
why so?

Russian. I've reached that intermediate point where grammar and pronunciation are familiar but there's still a gazillion words left to memorize.

bump

>>18374657
Latin with the LLPSI series
Just got Roma Aeterna and excited to get into some classical authors
Hopefully before the year's end I'll be able to understand some poetry
>ut dixit Ovidius 'rident stolidi verba latina'

>>18374923
Understand that motivation is fleeting but habits and discipline will carry you through the periods when you don't want to get things done.

My specific advice to you would be to start as small as possible. Anyone can spend 1 minute a day doing something. Build from there. You can add a minute every day; one month in and you've got 30 mins a day of studying.

>>18374657
ive been learning japanese for my foreign language for grad school but... its so fucking hard and it was not until i took this summer course that i realized the battle ahead of me... prob gonna switch to german or Portuguese

>>18374657
I dropped Japanese after seeing how much there was to do but I may rehash it just to pass the JLPT once. I'm trying to speedrun Spanish and then go onto Latin though.

>>18374657
I prefer to be monolingual.

>>18374680
Me too

>>18387901
ty, anon

>>18387924
I don't like the way that it is organized. I wish that it had more real world / modified real world Greek. I hate the Dicaeopolis story. It's stupid. I'd rather just do sentences about a random farmer and real Greeks, not some poorly crafted fiction. If you want to see the perfect textbook, look at Wheelock. Then, there is the way how Athenaze teaches you stuff. Why do 2nd aorists first? There's a bunch of things like this that my professor and class complained about.

If you want to read the real Athenaze story, read Acharnians, and I suggest that you find a very good critical edition. That shit is whack but super entertaining. You could not write that today.

>>18378138
I study mena history so I need to be able to read ottoman documents

>>18374657
1. Mandarin Chinese
2. Japanese
3. Arabic
4. Indonesian
5. Portuguese

I jump around between these languages but I'm not sure which to focus on and stick to. It's not practical to learn them all at once (unless I never get a job and never have a life outside of language learning). My first language was Spanish and I learned English early on. I took 2 university classes on Arabic, so I have a basic understanding of the language. I love Japanese for the anime and can read hiragana (and know some kanji). I'm very pro-China, so learning Chinese also seems very logical. And well, Indonesian and Portuguese just feel easy to me.

Which of these languages should I learn?

>>18391516
Portuguese, so you can hit the favela fags where it hurts

>>18383654
French is the easiest, then German, Russian and Japanese. If you're in the US, then just learn Japanese. You're probably a weeb anyway

>>18374657
English is enough.

None. American is the only language that matters, and I already speak that.

>>18390295
I kind of want to learn Mongolian as well, it sounds like a fun challenge.

I’m 3 months into Yiddish but am tripping on myself because different courses / books use different pronunciations. Duolingo’s especially is ass.

Any French speakers here? What’s the best way to go about learning French?

I’m a little torn between learning Western European languages or East Asian languages. I am physically more interested in Asia but Europe obviously has a much larger breadth of literature, which is important to me, and part of me wonders if I won’t eventually burn out or become disenchanted with Asia and wish I learned French or Italian or something. I already know a bit of Spanish and Japanese if that’s relevant. Can anyone give me some advice here?

>>18374657
With japanese i have to learn words and that's it.
Also trying to learn german, this one is trickier because the word sometimes sounds similar and you don't have distinct characters like in japanese to help youself.

>>18390636
Hmm interesting. Is there an equivalent to Wheelock's for Ancient Greek? I may get The Cambridge Grammar of Classical Greek since it takes into account the new philological research like correcting the misconception of the middle voice.

>>18378458
You shouldn't know Russian to pick up some girl from there
Just came out, date some woman and say something in broken Russian and switch into your language, say that she is a fucking whore and love dicks she's. didn't understand German anyway, then say in English that you wanted she married and move to Germany with you - its done. This bitch all yours.

>>18393616
I will have to read that. I am intrigued by the middle voice.

>>18393616
>new philological research like correcting the misconception of the middle voice
???

>>18393930
https://thepatrologist.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Reconceiving-the-Middle-Voice-Greek-and-Latin.pdf

Just started Russian. I told a girl I barely knew I was choosing between Russian and German and she immediately said "Russian suits you more" without any context and I still don't know what she meant.

This has been a solid thread.

Byzantine Chant so that I can become a lead cantor (protopsaltis) at my Orthodox Church. I'm around intermediate level. Breaking into expert and eventually master is the hardest part.... got a few more years.

It's more like learning a language than a music system desu. That and a good deal of what I chant is in Ancient Greek, so I had to pick up a strong amount of comprehension and pronounciation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZzX3rLC0r4&list=PLFn-oJ51Qt2ZUa_W_G-TH806BfhHhKju-&index=131&t=79s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13T__lUN0_I&list=PLFn-oJ51Qt2ZUa_W_G-TH806BfhHhKju-&index=134

>>18393978
This is pretty helpful. I havenot had the middle voice explained so well. It's just been told to me as being on behalf of oneself, an alternative form, or just fucking forget this fucking bullshit and memorize the fucking definition.

>>18394101
>just fucking forget this fucking bullshit and memorize the fucking definition.
kek

>>18374657
I've been passively learning French, Japanese, and Galician. Gave up on Russian last year but I intend to get back to it some time
>>18377320
>>18377408
Learning any Romance language has great benefits. You can more or less "guessimilate" any language on the Iberian peninsula if you know one of them, and the other Romance languages share many traits with each other

Trying to learn long term I want to learn Mandarin, Russian and French. Going to take a long time and honestly only learning french because I have 4 years of high school french and if I can I’d like to move there just to get out of the US

>>18394800
>Gave up on Russian last year but I intend to get back to it some time

Any particular reason why?

>>18395368
Just lost the motivation to learn it. I can't really explain, the will just faded away

>>18391687
Thanks

>>18376269
Ben Arapça ve Farsça konuşuyorum ve şimdi Türk dili oğrenmek istiyorum, sebeplerim seninlerden çok farklı değiller

I'm about six months into learning French. I feel pretty comfortable with it but I still got a little ways to go until I can read comfortably. I was thinking of purchasing bilingual poetry collections to help develop my vocabulary/ability to read once I finish the course/book I'm using to study.

>>18395093
>I’d like to move there just to get out of the US
>USA to France
Literally from the frying pan and into the fire

>>18396192
Anyway, I wanted to contribute to the thread, so here's my situation.

I am pondering learning Persian/Farsi. My late grandfather was fluent in it, and since his passing, no one in my family can speak or read/write in it anymore. I dunno. I feel like it could be a way to connect with him somehow. He was a great lover of languages.

>>18377597
Hmmm je pourrait essayer ca

>>18390668
Haha nice

>>18393616
>Is there an equivalent to Wheelock's for Ancient Greek?
Mastronarde.

>>18374657
>/lit/
>learning

page 10 save rave

>>18374712
Read books that you've already read in your native language. Knowing the plot and structure will help you with the feeling of being "lost".

I thought about attending french classes in a cultural institute near me. They offer a basic module alongside one "specialization". One of these specializations focuses on art, with a book and film club to drive conversation.
The tuition is pretty high, but I don't have the discipline to learn a language by myself (I only kind of know english because it is unavoidable these days, but I did not put any effort into learning proper grammar and shit). And who knows, I might make some friends.

>>18396192
Yeah after thinking about it yesterday its dumb, I dont like here but where I end up I end up even if that means I have to stay here. May just have a desire to travel a bit