/lit/ - Literature

Who the fuck cares about this schizo or jesus bullshit
I have beers to drink I dont have time for this

>>18279177
>ua bro don't talk to me about serious stuff, I have to clean my funkopop collection...

>>18279143
What if i think that jesus is the son of god but i hate the god of the jews because he is the Demiurge?

It is definitely true that if Christianity is real in all its miraculous, supernatural glory, then Nietzsche's criticisms of it have absolutely no weight. How can you say "God is dead" in the face of miracles, healings, apparitions, and prophecies?

At the very least, it makes pure materialism difficult.

>if christianity is false, it's redundant to say christian morals are false
that's where you're wrong kiddo. You can still like the ideas of Love thy neighbour, forgive your enemies etc. without believing in jesus

Nietzsche was 中二病
He just needed to swallow his pride and accept the Lord

>>18279347
you can like them and live by them. you just have to recognize they're baseless without faith. if that doesn't bother you, good for you

No NEETszchefags in the thread. they have fleed the board. embarrasing.

HOLY BUMP.

>>18279143
>And If Christianity is false, it's redundant to say that the Christian morals are false
It would only falsify Christianity's objectivity. Not necessarily Christian morality de facto. Granted that's the case to anyone who isn't already Christian. At best, the morals prescribed by Christ are subjective approximations/interpretations of some objective standard (if some objective standard exists).

>>18279143
His criticism of metaphysics is convincing regardless if you're a Platonist/Christian or not.

>>18280562
No it isn't.

>>18280562
Metaphysics are true regardless of Nietzsche's incapacity of belief, that's the issue.

>>18280610
Metaphysics being true or not isn't his criticism. His criticism is towards its moral value. Europe held onto metaphysics with a death grip and destroyed itself.

>>18280647
The moral value is insignificant and it's given by the fact that metaphysics are real. God's existence doesn't rely on Nietzsche's opinion. God's justice doesn't rely on Nietzsche's opinion, it relies on the fact that God's existence predicates his own fairness.

>>18280759
>The moral value is insignificant
It isn't when we're facing our own annihilation on account of our intense dependence on it. Life isn't all about the metaphysical and thinking it is is a death sentence.

>>18280791
It is when annihilation is what makes you one with the One.

>>18280871
Fuck off rabbi

>>18279177
based and beerpilled

>>18279143
major league retard
firstly, Nietzsche critiques Christianity from a theological standpoint, not as in how "factual" its myths are but in how its philosophy functions and affects the individual and society at large. He compares it to other religions, most of which fall under your same trap, but states that Christianity is inferior to them all.
Secondly, Nietzsche's call to arms if there is one is not against Christianity, but against the moral philosophy which it spread throughout western society. He saw Christianity as a dying religion but more importantly a relentless ideology which has sublimated itself far beyond the specifics of Jesus and God. This is what he was fighting against; critiquing Christianity as a religion was simply attacking at the root.
Finally, though I reject your faggot utilitarian view on philosophy, it's moronic to say that he could not persuade Christians with his ideas. He argues firmly and thoroughly the negative impact that Christianity has had on humanity, but also analyzes it from a historical perspective, explaining its origins and how it has evolved. Given that his arguments are convincing enough, any intelligent Christian, even the most devout, could be swayed by them.
The only people who he could not possibly convince are blind dogmatists, who there is no convincing anyways; they are slaves in their nature.

>>18281790
The factuality of its myths would reframe the ideas of "power" and "life;" if the myths are not real, then one would be making life the servant of ideas detached from reality and vitality.

>Nietzsche's arguments MUST NEEDS deconvert Christians, and if you are not de-converted by Nietzsche, then you are a convinced, faithful Christian
Good

>>18279143
>If Christianity is true and Jesus was the Son of God, you will burn if you don't accept his message

Many Christians reject the framing of their religion as mere fire insurance. Through that lens it seems no better than convincing kids Santa is watching so they'll behave.

>>18279143
You guys always misunderstand the method of Nietzsche's critiques. He never says "Is this true"? That is the question of a priest of a philosopher, but not Nietzsche. Rather he says "What kind of person believes this?". This question is valid even if the thing believed is true. What would lead someone to believe it, and what would lead someone to deny it? So when he says that Christianity is life denying, he simply doesn't care about whether God is "real" or not, he thinks that question is worthless, he is merely exposing the forces at play.

>>18281957
>"what kind of person believes this" is not also the question of a priest
Odd, considering the priest is focused on improving the state of the man holding the belief, as well as the philosopher in earlier times.

If God is real, then Christianity is not life-denying because God is life; He is the way, He is beauty, and truth, and order, and all of these things.

And is truth not important? How can Nietzsche make a convincing, accurate criticism if he does not care about the truth of things, and does not agree on a common, logical standard?

>>18281993
The point is that even if Christianity is true, the kind of person who believes it and values it would still be someone who denies earthly life, who is not happy in this life and thus finds solace is the truth of Heaven and God.

>>18279143
"“If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, 29 then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days." - Deuteronoomy 22:28-29

The christian god is garbage and that's why his chosen people are garbage.

>>18281993
Priests want to improve their lot above all else.

>>18282005
Even the Will-To-Truth is not neutral. We can ask like in every other case, what kind of person wants Truth above all else?

The Knight of Faith refutes the Last Man

>>18279215
Then your cosmogony is incoherent

>>18279177
/board

>>18279539
Id say people are pretty good at taking what they like and just jurry rigging a loose morality system out of it, it's literally what every person does, it's not as if even Christians can agree on what's right and wrong

>>18279143
Imagine typing all that and having the audacity to call someone else useless and unpersuasive.

>>18279143
>Nietzsche's criticism of Christianity is only valid if you're already an Atheist or at least a nonchristian.
No it's pretty much fundamentally valid all round.
The only people who like it however are not Christians. So you were nearly right.

What work of Nietzche is his the most critical of Chrstianity?

>>18282979
The Antichrist

>be Nietzsche
>spend most of life bashing Christianity, postulating the existence of "slave morality"
>meanwhile, literally be a slave to your degenerate passions, chasing after a woman who doesn't like you, and contract syphilis from a whorehouse
He is literally a textbook case of projection. How do people take him seriously?

>>18279143
Nietzsche wants really pro or anti Christian as a religion or as a historical / theological explanation he was just writing for a world that seemed to have left it behind and was confused and directionless with what to do without it

>>18283774
>degenerate passions
What?

>>18283801
>contracts syphilis from a literal whore
What part isn't clear?

>>18283825
Sex is a degenerate passion now? Not to mention there's no proof he contracted syphilis.

>>18283837
Perhaps you should look into what it means to "de-generate". Sex with a literal whore is degenerate, by all sense of the word - it is almost the archetypal example of what it means to degenerate.

>>18283885
Okay but what even is the evidence that he frequently went to whores? Wasn't it a brief occurrence recommended by his physician? That's not really a "degenerate passion" then.

>>18281957
I didn't misunderstand it, in fact I understood it, that's why I'm saying it's retarded cope for peop[le who weren't believers in the first place. You should obviously focus on truth with capital T instead of doing psychology as Nietzsche did. That would only lead you to a very petulant form of error.

>>18279143
>but your criticism doesnt work if i just uncritically assume my beliefs are true
checkmate athiests

>>18283774
In the words of Rajab Wali PBUH, you are a ”ass whole nigger”

>>18284220
>truth with capital T
There isn't any.

>>18279143
Your criticism of Nietzsche is only valid if you presume a divine command ethic. The Jesuits made a similar point when they were responding to the criticisms of the Chinese and Korean Confucians, but for most people it's self-evident that no true religion is going to preach degenerate morals. That being said, Nietzsche already had independent grounds for rejecting Christianity from the historical criticism of his time; his criticism of Christian morality is just icing on the cake.

>>18284220
Why do you Value Truth with a Capital T assuming it exists? Why should I pursue it? Nietzsche initiates Critical philosophy, far beyond Kant. Kant critiques various claims to Truth or morality. Nietzsche critiques Truth and Morality itself. He is asking the question "Who wants this to be true?" not, "Is this true?" and in that way he discerns that Christianity is a belief of the sick, the resentful, the life deniers and the despisers of the earth and the body.