/lit/ - Literature

INFINITE JEST
BOWQLINGH ALONG

>>18119032
American suburbs destroyed the American youth and made the kids more cautious and cowardly. Having movement be mostly controlled by parents ability to drive kids anywhere of value prevented growth of independent decision making. In short they are the worst thing to happen to the development of American childhood.
The way that our suburbs are makes no sense at all, and forces people to drive to do anything, with no mixed use, no walk ability, no bike infrastructure, nothing other than giant roads to ferry people from segregated housing to segregated business. This causes huge traffic problems everywhere and seas of asphalt because everyone has to drive everywhere.
Cars, or the space needed to facilitate cars fuck over anything that isn't based on driving. They chew up space for parking both at home, work, the grocery store, and other locations.
Walking is what allows people to feel more connected to their community, lead healthier lives, and in general connect to the communal social units that form the basis of the fabric of society.
A ton of our social problems are caused by the social isolation that our car culture layout has forced upon American lives. The apathy, the mental driftlessness, the lack of defined purpose or future, all of these can be tied back to the fact that our car culture has pushed us into a layout of housing that isolates us from our communities. This funnels down to the kids and fucks them up even more.

>>18119032
You have already made this thread before and it has nothing to do with literature. I’d be shocked if a single title gets mentioned

I grew up in quintessential suburb neighborhoods so they make me feel secure and comfortable. I live downtown but e.g yesterday I drove 25 mins out just to go running in a suburb I like near where I used to live

>>18119132
Why are you assuming it's the same op? Besides there's tons of request for recommendation threads granted they should be asked in the questions that don't deserve they're own thread general but there's no reason why this one in particular should be singled out

>>18119177
Doesn't look like there's a qtddtot gen rn anyway

>>18119177
>Why are you assuming it's the same op?
The question insults him for some reason so he doesn't want to believe the sentiments behind them are shared by many.

>>18119177
*their

>>18119177
If it’s not you who made it, then fine. I called it out because there was a similar thread in the last week with a similar pic. You shouldn’t have a “well, everyone else is doing it” mentality. As far as the suburbs, a hard truth is that no matter where you go you bring yourself. Many people think a change of scenery will help solve problems but most of the time it doesn’t

>>18119032
No

>>18119115
Ironically, you need to get out more and experience different places. There are suburbs like the one you're talking about. And plenty that aren't.

All I know is, when I see suburbs I literally GO INSANE!!!111!!!!!!1

>>18119115
Sounds like cope for having a secluded childhood

>>18119212
Every suburb of the US and Canada is like this.

>>18119115
Suburbs have existed for many decades. I highly, highly doubt you'd lament children of the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s as having "destroyed youths" because of a lack of stores within walking distance of their house.

You can criticize the planning of suburbs as being anti-walking/biking, but that really has nothing to do with the effects of childhood. I don't think anyone in the history of man has cried to a psychologist, "If ONLY the grocery store was within walking distance when I was a child, then I would have talked to more people."

>>18119138
kys

>>18119233
Sad.

>>18119237
>because of a lack of stores within walking distance of their house.
And why not, faggot?
>Oh I agree your axiom rings true but I don't care enough to think about it hehehe

>>18119115
>A ton of our social problems are caused by the social isolation that our car culture layout
So you were that weird 19 year old without a license?

>>18119237
How retardedly naive do you have to be to admit he's right about the way our lives have been laid out for us but then just assume that it has no effect on us whatsoever?

>>18119032
>WAHHH LIVING IN A GIANT HOUSE IN A BEAUTIFUL PLACE IS HORRIBLE WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>>18119477
>In a beautiful place

>>18119477
It's better to live in a box with people than in an oversized house in the suburbs. Suburbs are social hell.

>>18119218
Uhhhhh BRO you are like a TWISTED psychopath or something...... that's KIND OF fucked up

>>18119115
>NOOOOOOOOO YOU CANT RIDE BIKES IN THE SUBURBS LIKE A NORMAL KID ITS WAS DESIGNED FOR CARS DONT TAKE MY EXCUSE FROM ME

>>18119492
>>18119508
>NOOOOO I HAVE EVERYTHING I COULD EVER ASK FOR BUT THIS PLACE IS STILL HELL NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

>>18119519
>>18119521
Great minds think alike

>>18119521
If all you could ever ask for is fast food and asphalt, you're already a victim of the whole thing, anon.

>>18119527
There's more to living in a suburb than that, you were just a very boring and lonely child.

>>18119115
The amount of seething caused by this post only goes to prove how correct you are.

Suburbs are a good middle ground. If you can’t make it in the burbs, you won’t make it in the city or the country. Your issues and problems follow you where you go

>>18119508
I honestly don't see how. You're easily within walking distance of your neighbors, so if there are neighborhood kids around, there's no reason you can't get together to play. I grew up in rural middle of nowhere with no neighbors. That's much worse imo.

>>18119661
Suburbs are the worst of both worlds

>>18119032
Franzen's Freedom. Suburbs lead to the death of birds, evil cats, and your best friend fucking your wife.

>>18119115
It’s hilarious that you don’t realize that suburban developments being inaccessible by public transit or by foot is 100% intentional and one of their biggest selling points

>>18120327
Then move. I don’t know what you expect to hear

>>18120345
>suburban developments being inaccessible by public transit or by foot is 100% intentional and one of their biggest selling points
selling points for who? inbreds? wackos? the socially inept?

>>18119032
Why do you feel the need to make this thead everyday? Suburbs are way better than your Jew York apartment

>>18120442
>selling points for who? inbreds? wackos? the socially inept?
Yes.

>>18119032
Real estate mogging required busing in swarthy fellows in section 8 style poverty scrapers to tank property values; kulak flight, and the houses a snapped up on the cheap; gentrification eventually to begin the process anew

>>18119527
The only way I can understand people itt defending suburbs is that they must have lived in one of those upper class ones that actually have sidewalks and bike lanes and mini parks, I have seen nice ones like that but reading this thread you'd think they were the norm when they're the exception

OP was that weird kid no one wanted to play with so he decides to blame his environment on the fact that he’s a loser. What kind of a pampered brat describes suburbs as hell? Obviously a teenager with no life experience

>>18120322
> Rural area with plenty of forest areas to explore

>suburbs, literally just a circle of identical houses and a lot of crummy asphalt

Oh yeah, you definitely had it worse/s

>>18120510
>no one wanted to play with
Have you been to suburbs? Kids don't play with each other or even go outside to a large degree.

>>18120536
They did when I grew up. I still see them all the time playing. Do you live at your mom’s?

>>18120510
Yet you're proving his point for him because the weird kid could easily find other weird kids in a city but with the limited selection in a suburbs the weird kid is isolated, even normal kids are isolated if they don't have common interest or move to the neighbourhood after friendgroups have already been established

>>18120550
Feel like one of the biggest reasons why school shootings are big in America and not Europe is the way their suburbs are and the mental illness that they induce. What do you guys think?

>>18119115
why can't they function like villages
villages are kind of isolated and it takes a lot of effort to go anywhere far

>>18120606
Pretty much yeah, there are other factors but this is one of the biggest causes of it

>>18119115
There is a lot of truth in this.

>>18120627
Villages are not like suburbs. Suburbs are sanitized and planned sprawl, whereas villages are fairly self-contained communities with easy access to nature and all necessary amenities. European suburbs are different from American suburbs.

>>18120550
Weird kids are weird kids no matter where they come from. A loser in the suburbs is a loser in the country is a loser in the city

>>18120902
>necessary amenities
last i checked a lot of people die in villages because they can't make it to hospitals on time in case of emergencies

Jones talks about the purpose of the Suburbs in the USA.

In summary he said that they were built to break up communities in cities and make everyone in America identify with a racial ideology.

>>18119239
I listened to indie pop too while out there

>>18119032
Freedom by Jonathan Franzen, I generally prefer his early work but this book really gets at the psychosis of suburban life.

Where I live in the suburbs outside of philly there's always been a lot of places to walk to like a classic suburb from the 50s, the layouts and facades of a lot of the building have been kept the same so they have a lot more character as well. I'd say half the kids walked/biked home or walked somewhere after school with friends.

>>18121018
Sounds like the ravings of a silly liberal. Will *not* read.

>suburbs bad
Name a more played out theme. I swear you fucks are so unoriginal, literally repeating the same 50 threads over and over again.

I hate those kinds of places, you get no freedom

>>18121924
Maybe it's because they are bad.

>>18121924
I think we should be able to create a distinction between the OP picture and an actual classic suburb, is it hard to imagine a suburb like pic related might actually create more healthy individuals than the OP pic?

>>18121833
Which suburbs? I’m also right outside Philadelphia and I see kids playing all the time as I di when I was a kid

>>18122210
South jersey anon here i see kids on bikes playing all the time thanks to covid.

>>18122298
I see these all the time which I’ve grown to hate. Mothers will glare at you as you drive 5mph past. I even see groups of teenagers on the street all the time. You usually hear them before you see them. Maybe it’s just a regional thing but the OP seems ridiculous

>>18120979
>A loser in the suburbs is a loser in the country is a loser in the city
There are still a lot more 'losers' in the city for the weird kid to befriend you're not making any counterarguments here brother

>>18121904
That's literally the opposite of liberal ideology

>>18121904
That's literally the opposite of liberal ideology, it sounds hella based and red pilled stay in the dark all you want but I *will* read.

>>18122337
There should be no cars at all lol

>>18120627
suburbs would be great if they added in schools and shops and parks but it's just endless housing, endless goddamn housing.

>>18123238
most cars are a blight

>>18123260
Imagine inner cities without commuter cars, just wonderful.

>>18119032
No. No book has ever touched on that intricate subject.

>>18123260
>>18123275
We should all rides horses and britzkas

>>18123209
I know many people who made friends growing up in the suburbs. The weird kids tend to be solitary and socially awkward by nature so location won’t help

>>18123296
>location won’t help
it has nothing to do with location it's about the number and variety of people my guy. Statistically it just makes sense that if you have 10 other kids vs 300 other kids that it's more likely for them to find someone they click with in the city because of the greater variety

B U R G E R P U N K

>>18120627
because everyone works in or adjacent to the nearest city. suburbs are for cityfags who want to larp as country squires as far as their budget will permit, right down to the useless lawn

>>18121018
yup, a consumerist gulag for ethnic catholics

>>18123288
yes.

>>18122210
Grew up in Havertown primarily, also close to ardmore. I'd recommend the cathy's half priced books there over any used bookstore in the area and most in philly.

>>18120995
Western villages not third-world mud huts. How did you type this out and think this was some sort of good take that you had to share with the world. When someone talks about cities, does your mind instantly jump to Lagos? Absolute buffoon.

>>18120501
I grew up and still do live in one of those and they are not close to nice by any means.

>>18123643
idk probably still some poverty in actual european villages
not talking about tourist hubs
even third world villages are not just mud huts fucking retard

>>18123662
There isn't really the poverty in rural villages comparable to the scale in inner cities. The average village is an extraordinarily comfortable place and wealthy people often move into these areas where the average income is 25k. And of course, the poverty isn't a function of the village being a village but the people being poor.
Also, obviously they aren't all mud huts, I was exaggerating. When you think about city planning and such, the failed villages aren't wholly relevant here. It is important that the villages created to replace suburbs don't resemble the failed ones but as long as there are successes, of which there are many, it can be replicated. The fact that favelas exist or whatever doesn't mean the entire concept is tainted.

>>18123656
I agree the city is still way better than even those but I meant that would at least be tolerable compared to ones like mine that are just a circle of identical houses and a bunch of ugly asphalt

>>18119032
De Lilo's White Noise

>>18123543
Oh. I’m outside of NE Philly. There are very few book stores in the area that I know of

>>18119115
>guy makes patently fair and insightful post
>is mogged by a dozen posters no doubt raised in suburbs identical to the ones described in said post

>>18120442
Where I live they were extending the public trainlines into the wealthy suburbs, which caused an enormous uproar. A wealthy 60 year old womans biggest fear is that she might encounter somebody from a bad area while she walks her poodle.

Lol at anons thinking they would have turned out better if they grew up in a densely populated ghetto or had no interaction in the rural countryside.

>>18124167
so inbred wackos gotcha

>>18119032
>suburbs
>cultural impact

>>18120523
In terms of socialization, absolutely yes.

>>18119032
>making this thread every week for guaranteed replies
Pathetic

>>18121094
keked

>>18119508
People are hell. I choose the house and the privacy. Enjoy your crack den AIDS fountain and giving blow jobs to street lord's so you can walk to work without getting your throat slit.

>>18124802
Man are you from parallel dimension or what? I live in the fuckin ghetto and nobody ever bothers me

>>18119237

Yeah, they have existed for decades but in the time frame of a community, that's very little. The general view is that it takes 30 years in order to be able to look at something with a historical mind.The 1990's is when you see a massive rise in the discussion around suburbia and the decay of American life. Materially, there is a lot present but in terms of what makes life worth living, the people, it was bankrupt.

It's naive to think as soon as a thing is introduced, especially on such a scale, to leave an immediate impact. Now, we are in the steady state of the American suburb and the effects are seen.

Also you're constructing a mighty strawman to attack. It's not the presence of the stores that enacts the sense of community, it's the change in lifestyle having walkability does. You don't get the main point.

>>18119032
>>18119115
Oh boy, it's this same thread with this same post again.

>>18123238
With a car, you can go anywhere.

Shocking that this thread is populated by NEggers and Eurotrash.

>>18119521
Favelas are unironically great and you're a retard if you think otherwise. The problems relating to them are purely inorganic and brought on by neo-liberal and fascist policies.

>>18120627
The traditional village has been dead in North America for four generations, again killed by the car. A small village in my area in rural Canada a century ago would have a general store for most of the material needs of the residents, a church or two central to the social life of the community, a one-room school house, and a self-sufficient local economy based around fishing, farming, mining, or forest resources.

That's all been lost through centralization into gay asphalt-service industry globalism.

>>18124931
Maybe it's you who bothers other people. Like nose blindness. Maybe you can't tell how much of the stench is you and how much is your surroundings. Maybe it all smells like roses to you.

>>18125752
I am a very quiet person and basically never talk to anyone on the street. My point is that having to suck some guy's dick to avoid harassment is only a fantasy dreamt up by jumpy honkies. You can literally walk for miles in any direction from my house in a "bad" neighborhood and nobody tries to start shit. The most you will get is some guy asking to bum a cigarette, and if you say no he'll just keep on walking.

>cities in murica with the most interesting architecture or history tend to be fucking awful, crime infested, waste (literally) infested, despair infested places to live, but has most of the money. But it's increasingly staggeringly expensive to live even in the fringe areas around the perimeter
>small town and rural america has no money or major attractions but is much safer and quieter
not sure what this says but I have no idea why anyone would even want to think about moving to a place like urban california anymore. when decades ago it was a popular and well liked destination

>>18119212

Every single suburb is like this lmao. The only saving grace in my childhood was that I am in a very small suburb surroubded by forest, fields and a river. I actually got to play in the woods and climb trees and go to the river and explore.

Many kids live in hellscapes.

>>18119115

Suburban faggots are seething. Well done.

>>18119455
I feel very directly called out

>>18126691
>every single suburb is like this
>I grew up in a suburb that wasn't like this

>>18123964
this

>>18119032
Probably anything by James Howard Kunstler. Also I think Alan "onions face" Moore writes about it a little

>>18125193
Yeah but keep it out of the fucking cities and towns and walk. More space for humans.

Suburbs actually weren't the problem, it was suburbs being replaced on a civil engineering level by fringe cities.

>>18120322
The culture of the modern state which is encouraged and reinforced by suburbs is one that isolates people. Suburbs display a marked lack of social interaction because everyone wants their nice big home so they can shut themselves away from it inside their property. Life becomes about their garden or their garage or their home decorating. And anyone I don’t know has to stay the fuck off my curated lawn. No solicitors allowed.
Basically this >>18120345

>>18120501
Those “nice suburbs” are nice in a relative way. They have all the same problems, just some to a lesser degree. Doesn’t mean the problems aren’t still there and important.

>>18120606
I disagree that it’s the biggest factor but it’s undoubtedly a factor nonetheless. Suburbs are merely symptomatic; they are not the apotheosis of modernity’s problems.

>>18122195
That’s just a city.

>>18124802
This is the quintessential modernist post, and exactly why suburbs are successful.

>>18125193
This is exactly the context which makes that line so kino for me.

>>18125835
>The most you will get is some guy asking to bum a cigarette, and if you say no he'll just keep on walking.
This is the kind of social interaction that causes most people to utterly crumble, and want to shut themselves up inside their houses.

American suburbs are a blight. Do not raise your kids there. Suburbs are awful for children and will turn them into pussies. Can't even take a walk in the safest time in the safest place without some retard calling the pigs. This post is correct >>18119115

>>18128562
And once again we discover that the entire leftists agenda is
>something is popular/successful
>It must be destroyed!!!

Grow up little retards.

>>18129937
Suburbs aren't popular. People think they are bland and boring and if they ever want to do anything fun they go to the city. Most people that like them don't know anything else and are extremely sheltered.

>>18119212
>>18126691
>>18126989

>>18129748
He doesn't give a lot of details so it's hard to really judge the situation but I would call the police if I saw a 7 year old out by themselves, just think how easy it would be to snatch her

>>18129962
Don't shit where you eat. Of course you go to the city to have fun. You don't live there. You go spend money and toss the idiots there some money for the amusement. Fun is the last thing we want near our homes. Home is for peace and quiet and rest. Keeping the "fun" contained to its part of town is the whole ideal.

>>18129748
He doesn't give a lot of details so it's hard to really judge the situation but I would call the police if I saw a 7 year old out by herself, just think how easy it would be to snatch her

>>18130003
This happens all the time in American and Canadian suburbs. And you would be a idiot. North American suburbs are some.of the safest places to live yet everyone there is a huge bitch. In European suburbs kids walk as they please and are able to gain independence. In North American suburbs kids are sheltered their whole lives and turn to little bitches like their dumb parents.

>>18129994
You can do that without building a completely separate area out in the middle of nowhere that you need to drive half an hour just to do anything. Not every street in the city is in the red-light district desu

>>18130003
This happens all the time in American and Canadian suburbs. And you would be a idiot. North American suburbs are some of the safest places to live yet everyone there is still a huge bitch and is extra cautious. In European suburbs kids walk as they please and are able to gain a sense independence and grow up. This is something that is hindered in North American suburbs.