/lit/ - Literature

>>18103469
How many chickens can you eat in one sitting?

>>18103469
Someone please post Daenerys' diarrhea

>>18103469
>resents
He doesn't resent him, he's just doing something else and points out differences between his stuff and Tolkien's.
He loves LOTR.

>>18103615
He should apologize.

>>18103615
The only thing Grrm resents is Drumpf and Hemorrhoids

>>18104053
I'm with him on both of those.

Reminder that the best critique of GRRM came from Peter Hitchens.

>>18103614
the more shit she drank the more she drank shat

>>18103469
Where do people get this idea of GRRM being in any way negative towards Tolkein? No really, does anyone have a link to what they think implies this? I don’t understand how so many of you think this.

>>18103614
>this cheap shit passes for literature

>>18103469
>resents Tolkien for focusing on beauty and purity rather than nihilistic decadence

I don't know about GRRM's feeling about Tolkien, but isn't this pretty common nowadays? Among critics, writers, etc?

WHO ATE ALL THE PIES?

>>18103469
His version of the fantasy genre in comoarison to tolkeins prefectly encalsulates the decline of modern culture.

Tolkeins main work the Lord of the Rings was a story about a war of precise good and evil and the conditons of such. GRRM's GOT series could barely transcend cheap politics and smut with no clear direction.

>>18103615
NO ANON IT HAS TO BE BLACK OR WHITE, LOVE OR HATE

>>18104208
Great writing

>>18104189

>Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?

This quote IMO betrays his distain for the classical world, the genre of literary fantasy that is by it's very nature supposed to have a happy ending, and to mythologize positive archetypes, not offer a debased portrayal of Man's lowest instincts and show how these lesser instincts end up reigning supreme. Not only does this spit in the face of classical civilization and tradition, I find it to be fundamentally untrue and out of alignment with the way the world operates, and that's why I think real artists are so offended by Martin's writing.

>>18105713
I will say that I admire Martin's procedural method of constructing his universe, but I think he entirely misses the mark when it comes to the essence of story telling. Perhaps he will prove me wrong when he finishes his books, but I find him to be a commercial writer who is very good at the procedural elements of story telling, but fails miserably at the divine and transcendental elements. Tolkien it might be said had the opposite problem, he had a masterful method of communicating divinity and higher ideals in his writing, but they are not presented in a pragmatic or realistic fashion. It is presented as a lost vesitge of the past, which may in and of itself be more true than attempting to portray divinity within the context of a morally debased world that is similar to our own (as Martin does).

>>18105713
>>18105731

I perhaps speak in too many absolutes, Martin does achieve some remarkable moments in his writing, but he has a strange urge to sabotage those moments by killing off his characters in very unceremonious manner that seems to detract from the authenticity of his world.

>>18103469
>>18105713
>This quote IMO betrays his distain for the classical world, the genre of literary fantasy that is by it's very nature supposed to have a happy ending
>not offer a debased portrayal of Man's lowest instincts and show how these lesser instincts end up reigning supreme. Not only does this spit in the face of classical civilization and tradition, I find it to be fundamentally untrue and out of alignment with the way the world operates
You can tell the person who wrote these posts has not read any literature from the "classical world". I don't know how you could write this if you had any familiarity with the works of the Greek playwrights. Tolkien, being the classicist that he was, wouldn't endorse this kind of kitsch either: he found it annoying that CS Lewis had a faun befriend Lucy Pevensie instead of rape her. I wish /tv/ pseuds would stop finding moralistic explanations for why GRRM is bad and just focus on the fact that he's a shit writer.

>>18105772
The classical world was hyper moral, and sacred laws were exactly that, sacred. Martin violates all of the customs in his universe to drive plot, it is a betrayal of the classical world. I'm not talking about the literature (of which I've read a great deal), I'm talking about the mental universe that people occupied in the earliest civilizations.

>>18105792
The classical world also tended toward fatalism. Many of their heroes don't get happy endings. Their gods engaged in debauches and committed arbitrary cruelties. Religious and moral texts, like the Bible, constantly lament that the wicked prosper while the good suffer. I don't know where you're getting the idea that happy endings are some kind of sacrosanct Western literary staple. Tolkien himself tended toward a pessimistic view of history, the "long defeat". Your thing seems more like a reaction against Game of Thrones specifically and the "subverting expectations" meme in pop culture.

>>18104208

>>18103469
Fool, criticism =/= resentment

>>18105809
>I don't know where you're getting the idea that happy endings are some kind of sacrosanct Western literary staple
That's not what he was stating.

>>18105819
"Criticism" implies an intelligent response, though. Martin's "criticism" is, "there's not enough shit, piss and promiscuous sex, which there should be, therefore Tolkien is bad." If anything, he is complimenting Tolkien whilst using hostile words.

Martin is a lot like Stephen King in that he is under the delusion that a huge cabal of American conservatives are actively working to suppress what he considers art and even good entertainment.
They formed these views in the 60’s and 70’s and decided passages that described cum dripping out of woman after sex was high art that also stuck it to the man. Never mind that it’s vulgarity generated word-of-mouth buzz that happened to be great marketing or that some readers just value that stuff for a type of pornographic stimulation or that it helped them cultivate an image of edginess. That’s just a coincidence.
They never let it go even when everyone in their parent’s generation that was supposedly oppressing them died.
Like, he genuinely believes that his over the top sex, violence and defecation are better than classical writers because he respects his audience enough to take it for granted they are cool enough to appreciate assplay and diarrhea, which is high praise in his mind.
So i’m sure he really does like Tolkien but he 100% fancies himself a much better writer. A more mature one too.

>>18105866
Victorian prudishness about sex, violence and bodily functions is not representative of "classical writing" and high art

>>18103469
He's a reactionary, but I don't think he actually hates Tolkien. Moorcock is the one who really hates Tolkien.

>>18105809
>the "subverting expectations" meme in pop culture
Ok /tv/, we’re talking about books tho

>>18105889
Don't you have to be literate to be able to post on this board?

>>18103469
Yep. George is a glorified pulp peddler. His works are not literature or art. Nothing poetic, insightful, truly meaningful, or even really tragic to his works. He’s good at world building but everything else is smut schlock beneath a veneer of cynicism, which is odd as most times it’s the schlock that hides the cynicism whereas Martin uses a continuing motif of cynicism to trick his audience into thinking his books are about anything and that they have themes or ideas. His books are shallow, meaningless, no point besides spectacle.

>>18105713
Gurm never read Tolkien, there's no such thing as baby orcs you stupid fat bastard.

>>18104208
What a poetic way of saying she has gastro

>>18104650
Also, don't forget: everyone who says something you disagree with is not just that; they're the individual manifestations of your chosen Big Bad.

>>18104208
Good lord, what the fuck.

>>18103469
>Boomer expects to live to 100
>small hat
>career television drama writer
>dedicated scifi novelist until GOT

>>18105731
>but they are not presented in a pragmatic or realistic fashion. It is presented as a lost vesitge of the past,
LOTR’s literally a prose epic for the Brythonic/Celtic/West Germanic world; they’re not novels in the desultory ephemera vein of ‘slice of life’ existential naval gazing as we know modernist literature to date

>>18105866
>under the delusion that a huge cabal of coethnic ‘Jude o’-Christian Zionist former Trotskyite NeoCons American conservatives are actively working to suppress what he considers art and even good entertainment.
King at least lived the bohemian wastrel life to a degree with the cocaine binging, Martin merely stuffed himself with insulin desensitizing processed foods

>>18105713
He’s explaining the difference in their two approaches to storytelling. These are things his mind focuses on when considering a fantasy world. I don’t know what to say if you think this quote represents some deep-seated vendetta against Tolkein, especially despite the innumerable times GRRM has just outright said he loves Tolkein’s works.

>>18105834
Did you just “no true scotsman” the word “critique?” Impressive.

>>18105898
>Moorcock is the one who really hates Tolkien.
Aye, he called him a white supremacist or something and basically wrote Elric as the anti-Tolkien.

>>18104208
>The more she drank, the more she shat.
Never gets old

>>18103469
He actually hates being called nihilist IRL

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/george-r-r-martin-the-rolling-stone-interview-242487/

>Q: Early on, one critic described the TV series as bleak and embodying a nihilistic worldview, another bemoaned its “lack of moral signposts.” Have you ever worried that there’s some validity to that criticism?

>A: No. That particular criticism is completely invalid. Actually, I think it’s moronic. My worldview is anything but nihilistic.

It wasn't even something like "that's how it works and people are naive", "well it depends on how you view nihilism", he straight up said no and stupid.

>>18104208
BASED
need a fart fiction novel in this style PRONTO

>>18105834
>Martin's "criticism" is, "there's not enough shit, piss and promiscuous sex, which there should be, therefore Tolkien is bad."
His smut is to appeal to womne. Women love scifi only if there is sex in it.

>>18103469
>resents Tolkien
Wrong.

>>18107394
It's obvious he's a moralist

>>18107421
If that's the case it would be good.

>>18104208
/sffg/ fellas unironically enjoy this? Embarrassing.

>>18107003
>cocaine good
>coca cola bad

They really should allow to have real coke in the cola again. More fun.

Tolkien is to creative literary genius what Martin is to hack pulp idiocy. They both so far surpass anyone else in their field that they will be remembered 1,000 years from now as a kind of yin and yang of fantasy, a Manichaen duality of speculative letters. For every sublime, luminous beauty that Tolkien has gifted the world, Martin has cursed us with a tedious, banal ugliness. It is unfair to compare the two directly on any one point, because Martin is in every way the anti-Tolkien, patently sterile, parasitical, and inferior, but so much so that he becomes a monument in his own right, and counterbalances Tolkien. Could one exist without the other? Tolkien obviously could. But it is only by the contrast that Martin offers that we can truly appreciate the full depths and heights of Tolkien. Our understanding of Tolkien would be incomplete if Martin had never set pen to page. It is through only the abject failure and futility of Martin that we can approach an apprehension of the true scope and scale of Tolkien's hitherto inconceivable greatness. Perhaps this is what Tolkien had in mind when he wrote about the Music of the Ainur. If Tolkien is a subcreator in the image of Eru, truly Martin is like unto Melkor. It is only reflected in the awfulness of the one that we can fully see the goodness of the other.

>>18108020
I'm convinced that him reading this copypasta is the reason why he stopped working on the final book.

>>18105713
This is fucking disgusting and shows that secular petty politics is ugly and shit compared to a conscious world that recognizes something sacred in the battle for good and evil.

>>18105772
>Tolkien, being the classicist that he was, wouldn't endorse this kind of kitsch either: he found it annoying that CS Lewis had a faun befriend Lucy Pevensie instead of rape her.
Gonna need a source on that one.

>>18107261
Do you think that a classifier with any requirement at all is "no true scotsman"?

>>18108186
>Tolkien was bothered by this scene because Lewis was distorting and sentimentalizing the myth ("Narnian Exile" 41). He suggests, "[I]f Lucy had really met a faun--that is, a satyr--the result would have been a rape, not a tea party" (Christopher, C.S. Lewis 111).

>>18108186
"[I]f Lucy had really met a faun—that is, a satyr—the result would have been a rape, not a tea party" (Christopher, C.S. Lewis 111).

Christopher, Joe R. C.S. Lewis. Twayne's English Authors Series. Boston: Twayne, 1987.
—. "J.R.R. Tolkien, Narnian Exile." Mythlore 15.1 (#55) (1988): 37-45; 15.2 (#56) (1988): 17-23.

>>18105713
>"I did begin a story placed about 100 years after the Downfall, but it proved both sinister and depressing. Since we are dealing with Men, it is inevitable that we should be concerned with the most regrettable feature of their nature: their quick satiety with good. So that the people of Gondor in times of peace, justice and prosperity, would become discontented and restless — while the dynasts descended from Aragorn would become just kings and governors — like Denethor or worse. I found that even so early there was an outcrop of revolutionary plots, about a centre of secret Satanistic religion; while Gondorian boys were playing at being Orcs and going around doing damage. I could have written a 'thriller' about the plot and its discovery and overthrow — but it would have been just that. Not worth doing."
When Tolkien BTFOs Martin even before the latter was an adult

>>18103469
He'll live 90+, but still don't finish the saga. He could easily loose the weight with a coach and dietitian in order to extend his life, but he would remain a lazy fuck.

>>18108222
>>18108248
Thanks. I assumed he would have used some kind of polite idiom.

Does GRRM have a family with children?

>>18108600
He has a "wife"

>>18105713
>What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine?
I love how Martin didnt answered at half of these very same questions in his own books

>>18108407
I don't think it's lazyness, I think he just doesn't care that much about it anymore. Perhaps the show's popularity kinda burned his motivation in a way. You'd expect the opposite to happen, but perhaps it had some kind of spoiling effect, like when you're a kid and your parents buy all the toys you want, you end up barely playing with any of them.

>>18108674
I would probably agree. Getting successful, rich, popular, and happy while being fat makes him lose motivation to drop the fat and be healthy.

>>18108407
I think it's really a mix of stuff:
>He's older and so have less energy and will to do
>Probably got fed up with ASOIAF and genuinelly lost the will to continue writing it
>Also he likely have no idea to fix all the clusterfuck of subplots prolifications from book 4 onwards in only two books, and prefer and unfinished saga than a one with a shitty rushed finale

>>18108650
We hate in others what we see in ourselves. None of his worldbuilding holds up to the most basic of material investigations. Like most nihilists, he conflates gritty with realistic.

>>18108687
Honestly he's just gonna collect those checks from HBO for the rest of his life, no need to finish the books or do anything else at all

>>18108696
>None of his worldbuilding holds up to the most basic of material investigations

>Dynasties that last for thousands of years
>Everyone speaking the same language from the wall to Dorne
>Dynasties using a fuckton of names instead of the same 5-6 ones
>Dragonlords not invading Westeros in the millenias before the Doom
>Brutes somehow being considered a threat despite living in 1/5 of the North area. Likely Kingslanding alone have 4-5 times their population

Well, you are right. You can ignore it in a setting that dosent pretend to be realistic and left a lot of stuff as vague and unclear, but not in Martin's one

>>18103469
>Sunset found him sitting in front of his computer, grumbling. Every sentence was worse than the previous one. By the time time the moon came up, he had barely written a single paragraph. The more he had time, the less he wrote, but the less he wrote, the more time he had time.

>>18105866
>Martin is a lot like Stephen King in that he is under the delusion that a huge cabal of American conservatives are actively working to suppress what he considers art and even good entertainment.
This was true until fairly recently. It wasn't until the late 1990s-early 2000s that the conservative censorous lobby had weakened to the point that when brought to bear it was no longer able to have a reliable shot at killing projects or shaping them. By the end of the second Bush administration the "ban violent video games" crowd that was able to bring about serious crackdowns on TV and film content after the Janet Jackson Superbowl and NYPD Blue rear nudity scenes ran out of steam.

>>18108727
Pretty good

>>18108721
>Dynasties that last for thousands of years
Always found this part the worst fact about Westeros history, because of how quickly everything fell apart in the political events of the book, which weren't even particularly significant.

>>18104208
Post a better one, then
Joyce sniffed farts, but could ever write anyone taking a shit, even though everyone does so every day

>>18108782
>because of how quickly everything fell apart in the political events of the book, which weren't even particularly significant.

This so much. Almost all houses somehow survived/got pardoned in much more destructive and hated wars, like the Dance of Dragons and the Blackfyre wars, while by book three dozens of millenial old dynasties somehow either died off or had their lands revoked because they belonged to the losing side

Blacyfyres were litterally supported by the number 2 houses of a lot of realms (Yronwood, Freys, Royces, Reynes, Peakes). And yet somehow all the major houses pardoned them without too many worries

>>18105747
The killing off was alright, the cliffhanger killing off just to re-raise them is unpardonable

>>18104208
I remember reading this on the train and laughing so hard

>>18108811
Under an empire, pardoning is easy once peace is restored. There will always be a tendency towards restoring the status quo, the enemy you know, etc. This is even shown in the fact that the seven ruling houses still acknowledge the fat hog usurper as overlord, after doing it with the targs even though their actual ability to enforce their position went with the last dragons.
The choice between an incestious mad lad king and a bonfire crazy heretic was just the last straw.

>>18105747
His reputation for killing characters is greatly exaggerated. Hardly anyone at all dies after the first book but every single character with a chapter named after them has at least one fake out death. That is, where a chapter ends on a cliffhanger which leads the audience to believe a character is dying, like when Arya gets hit in the head with an axe only to find out in a later chapter it was the blunt side that hit her, or Brienne getting hung by a Catelyn Stark that's alive after being partially decapitated, or a handcuffed Tyrion somehow making it to shore after being dragged into the water by stone men. This trope is abused so damn often by Martin that one of the most important characters in the entire series, Jon Snow, gets stabbed dozens of times at the end of the last novel and nobody in the world thinks he's going to stay dead.

These books are ridiculously bad.

>>18108936
Aside Ned all the major POV characters are still around. I think the only POVs that actually died after him are Arys and Quentyn (and some people still think the former somehow survived)

The "everyone can die" meme started with show fans, that thanks to the different medium had characters like Robb promoted to protagonists status

>>18109003
People think Quentyn is alive too. All part of that Dornish Master Plan, of course.

>>18105713
>Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper
Fat fuck literally can't comprehend by a good man. "We must be governed by a freakshow of critical race theorists and allow the laziest and weakest to tear down the most productive (just keep your hands off my stuff)"

>>18105772
>CS Lewis had a faun befriend Lucy Pevensie instead of rape her
Did you see how fat and ugly Lucy was in the BBC TV series? No wonder Mr. Tumnus didn't want to get his BFC near her.

>>18103469
>Fat pervert kike writes a nihilistic story about rape and food, can't finish it
Wow...

>>18109155
>allow the laziest and weakest to tear down the most productive
you don't understand either, projecting bourgeois ideas onto middle ages.

>>18105889
And an obsession with shit and cum is?

>>18108782
>Always found this part the worst fact about Westeros history, because of how quickly everything fell apart in the political events of the book, which weren't even particularly significant.
>Starks rule 7000 years (think how crazy that is)
>finally taken out by 20 ironborn in sneak attack

>>18104208
Was this scene in the show? The camera could have panned to grrm in his modern sloppy clothes narrating the scene and cackling.

>>18109019
I love how many dumbassed dont realize that Doran overcautious and patient planning is a weakness, not a 300 IQ sign: his plans take so long that once they are finally ready the situation evolved so much that they are useless, and he need to start planning again

>>18109219
Yes, I still vivdly remember watching Emila Clarke lying in her own liquid shit, convulsing and screaming for help in 4k

>>18103469

>>18109333
With her tits out, of course

>>18109371
What are some examples of moral lessons from classical tragedies?

>>18109417
That God and the good prevails, e.g. Faust

>>18109417
Tragedies are typically highlighting the consequences of particular vices. You can see this in the Children of Hurin where Turin's pride leads to the downfall of not just him, but his family and everyone who associates with him. There's nothing like this in the SOIAF. In fact, in many cases there's an inverse. Ed Stark is too honorable, Robb is too trusting and loving, and if the show is anything to go by, Bran is willing to engage in some very evil things in order to come into power, and Dany of course has no problem killing innocent people among other things. The books glorify and almost advocate for vice because the evil people are the ones that succeed in that world.

>>18109371
>Dany will win
Huh? A lot of these effortposts are really good, but then they all drop the ball at some point, usually when they speculate about the series’ future, like this one. The story will end with a treaty established between mankind and the Others, because the moral message is that war and violence never solve anything, yet it is what most people, even the good and the just like Robb and Ned, always turn to first. The Others cannot be militarily overcome, so despite being a monstrous alien threat, the characters will need to rediscover an understanding of them, just like their ancestors practiced long ago.

>>18108020
kek

>>18108362
based

>>18109495
>The books glorify and almost advocate for vice because the evil people are the ones that succeed in that world.
Retarded. This is an eternal theme.

>>18109495
>the evil people are the ones that succeed in that world.
Tywin, Cersei, Roose and his bastards, Walder etc. are either dead or about to see everything they built for collapsing. I think the theme is that, "good" or "bad", most people simply end their life goals with a failure

>>18108721
>>18109199
The Starks are probably the most Tolkien-esque part of the books. A dynasty lasting 8000 years, respected by their people and because they're good men, there is peace (a maid could walk down the King's Road naked back when there was a Stark in Winterfell). Due to this, they're probably my favourite part of the series, I love the aesthetic of ridiculously ancient dynasties - something about it is very appealing to me and (as you can tell) I can't really put into words what about it I love so much.

The thing is, Martin makes no real attempt to deconstruct the idea of "ancient good dynasty makes an good kingdom". The Starks are only proved to be good people, the only thing they ever do wrong is being too good. They never really (that I can remember) act out of incompetence, they're betrayed. And even after their betrayal, there's still many Lords who stay loyal and many who want revenge. It looks like we'll see all those who betrayed the Starks suffer in a feel good revenge arc (though I'd be happy to be proved wrong). The people never turn against the Starks, they still want them back despite such a big point in the earlier books being that the people are indifferent to the "game of thrones". The Starks and North in general are less a deconstruction of the Tolkien trope, they're like a creation of Tolkien being dropped into a modern gritty fantasy series. And while that was interesting at first, it's not enough to sustain a series on.

What would have been interesting (to me, at least) was a brutal, tyrant Stark King. Say, for example, after Bran and Rickon's "deaths", Robb goes mad with power. The Lords and people begin to turn against him and they (more so the Lords than people ) have to rationalise killing a heirless King of an 8000 year old dynasty. It would be more interesting than the current Stark plotline.

One of my favourite figures in the ASOIAF lore is Brandon Ice-Eyes. Essentially, s Stark King who had "eyes like Ice chips" . From what little we know, we can assume he was close to being this brutal Stark King I described. When slavers captured the White Knife (what would become White Harbour), he killed them and hung their entrails on the Weirwood in some kind of sacrifice to the Old Gods. I would have loved to know more of this but as we all know Martin is a fat hack.

>>18109897
>The Starks are probably the most Tolkien-esque part of the books
They praticed human sacrifices for millenias too, and likely at least some Stark did it in some forms even after the Targaryen conquest.
Ned always washed his sword from a decapitations in front of the Winterfell Weirwood tree, and we know that Weirwood trees were the place for the human sacrifices rituals used by the Childrens of the Forest and the first men
In this way some think Neds fullfilled his millenials old duties of "feed" human blood to the Weirwood tree of his house, but without actually killing people for that reason (as he only ever decapitated people that according to the law deserved it)

>>18109809
One of my favourite parts of the first book was that after Ned dies and it seems like the Lannisters have just completely seized power in the realm without a hitch, we then cut to seeing their perspective via Tyrion and they’re all shitting themselves in fear; Joffrey is unhinged, the North is rebelling, many other realms’ loyalties are very unclear (they later rebel too), and aside from all that the realm they inherited from Robert is held together by shoestrings and chewing gum at its strongest points. Killing Ned was a great injustice yet kind of his fault for being blindly stupid, but regardless the Lannisters do not escape the karma of that and all of their other acts. I found this representative of the other injustices perpetrated across the series. At worst you get people like Sam’s dad who is at best a mixed bag, who seem like they’ll live through the whole story unharmed.

Do we have any reason to assume the end will be fundamentally different than the show's?
Didn't he disclose the whole story to the show's producers, even if it's not published yet? Or did the show enter 100% fanfiction territory at some point, with GRRM not giving anymore info regarding the ending?

>>18110130
>Didn't he disclose the whole story to the show's producers, even if it's not published yet?
This is what I think happened. The show broke down trying to shoehorn itself into the ending, so it's safe to say that ending, or at least the broad strokes (Dany goes mad, Jon kills Dany, Bran becomes King) are what we will get in the books.

>>18110142
>Bran becomes King)
god this is fucking retarded. Dany going mad and Jon killing her could be done well but I see no way in which Bran becoming King woulnd't be retarded

>>18110157
That's another problem. Book 1-3 gave us this noise of a very complex peerage system with hundreds of actors, and by the end (at least, in the show), the political scene feels completely empty and way more simplistic. No one is there to make any move, because if that happened, he'd probably have to write 8 more books. That's why stuff like Bran becoming king happens and feels rushed.

Maybe he should have ended the series when the war ends, and have none of that stuff about the Others. He'd have a great, original and complete piece of medieval political fiction by now.

>>18103615
yes, it´s pretty funny when /tv/ and /lit/ hates his gut meanwhile he´s just chilling and saying the difference between his and tolkien´s writing

>>18105713
>This quote IMO betrays his distain for the classical world, the genre of literary fantasy that is by it's very nature supposed to have a happy ending, and to mythologize positive archetypes, not offer a debased portrayal of Man's lowest instincts and show how these lesser instincts end up reigning supreme. Not only does this spit in the face of classical civilization and tradition, I find it to be fundamentally untrue and out of alignment with the way the world operates

is this how americans think? how embarassing

>>18108633
https://youtu.be/QT13kk8HDDo

>>18110199
>Book 1-3 gave us this noise of a very complex peerage system with hundreds of actors, and by the end
yeah, I loved the descriptions of Lords with barely a castle and village to their name, like in Dunk and Egg

>>18110199
>and have none of that stuff about the Others. He'd have a great, original and complete piece of medieval political fiction by now.
Honestly this would have been ideal. How many people are truly interested in the Others anyway? The politics is what drags people into the story

>>18110280
Yes, worst part is that they're not even necessary for the plot.

>>18110280
the Others, no matter how hard he tries to humanise them, will always be just the "bad" in a "good vs bad" fantasy story, which kind of defeats what the series had going for it. He should have made it so the Wildlings were the only things beyond the wall. He could have even kept the descriptions of Craster's Old Gods as some cool world building to show how mental the wildlings were and as a mystery - like his own Tom Bombadil

good thread lads

>>18103469
>>dies before he can finish his shit novel
10/10, made me Google

>>18104208
>Yezzan was burning with fever, squirming fitfully in a pool of his own excrement. His shit had turned to brown slime streaked with blood … and it fell to Yollo and Penny to wipe his yellow bottom clean. Even with assistance, their master could not lift his own weight; it took all his failing strength to roll onto one side.
>Sweets gave them both a desperate look. “Yezzan must not die.” The hermaphrodite
stroked the brow of their gargantuan master, pushing back his sweat-damp hair. The
Yunkishman moaned, and another flood of brown water gushed down his legs. His
bedding was stained and stinking, but they had no way to move him.
Why is George like this?

>>18110592
He writes what he knows.

>>18106099
Tolkien deliberately kept orc reproduction vague, the first orcs were created by mutilating elves, but everything afterward isn't elaborated on. Uruk-hai are the product of mating orcs and men, which implies at least some reproductive capability. At the very least you'd have to consider the "Orcish question" anyway. The War of the Ring didn't completely wipe out the orcs, do you kill all of the survivors, even if they weren't combatants or former combatants that surrendered?

>>18110592
He's a liberal. They're all sexual deviants.

>>18104208
If you don't think that's the hotest shit put to paper then gtfo!

>>18105731
>but I find him to be a commercial writer who is very good at the procedural elements of story telling

Does he need to be more than this? Has he ever claimed to be more than this?

>>18104208
Sniffags aren't human.

I'll never understand why GRRM attracts so much vitriol on this shit site. I assume because Tolkien is sacred here? Even though his books actually suck and only the movies are good.

GRRM's books are nice, easy reads that still manage to evoke good imagery and get you attached to characters, which is more than can be said for that hack Tolkien and his pages upon pages of pointless description and his obsession with DUDE WEEED

>>18103469
Holy shit is that a recent photo? He is fatter than he has ever been. Forget Dream of Spring, and probably Winds of Winter too.

>>18108800
?
Bloom takes a fat stinky shite in the first chapter he appears in, I'm pretty sure.

>>18108800
>>18111452
I hope this doesn't turn fucking sideways on me.

>>18105866

I think GRRM was intending the ending to be a commentary of 90's feminist 'girl power'. A 'hey look girls can be evil too' type of thing. Only the literary culture changed so quickly in the last decade that he cannot write that ending any more and has no idea what to do,.

>>18111438
>I'll never understand why GRRM attracts so much vitriol on this shit site.

Because Anons are fundamentally contrarians. There isn't anything deeper to it.

>>18111483
Goddammit. How do you fix that on android? On iphone you rotate it then resave it but that didn't work.

>>18111438
Because this board is full of pseud who only want to read the classic so that they can feel superior to others
>GRRM's books are nice, easy reads
that's the problem, alongside the fact they are popular

>>18111536
No the problem is the diarrhea and the cringey sex and you know it

>>18111489
>I think GRRM was intending the ending to be a commentary of 90's feminist 'girl power'.
If it was really that simple I am going to be sad

>>18111568
it must be an autistic fixation of yours, because those scenes are few and extremely far between

>>18111592
Whenever people try to paint Martin as good it always comes down to “they’re good books if you just ignore the bad parts”
No shit, lol

>>18107261
>n-no true scotsman

>>18111608
They are hardly bad parts. People get sick and shit themselves and people also have sex, even cringy, awkward sex at times, but you're too much of a monkey to stop pointing and screeching at these few scenes.

>>18108736
It never went away, they just changed tactics. The censorship movement goes on strong today.

>>18110592
That's his daily life.
You can't tell me that fat old bastard doesn't shit himself often.

You don't even have to say anything to see GRRM "owned". Tolkein gets the last laugh even as a dead man

>>18111501
Have you tried not being a filthy fucking phoneposter

>>18108027
kek why did this make me laugh
The old man should just wrap it up and move on already, even if it has to be a shitty ending. He could have one more try at the bat with one more story if his heart health is forgiving.

>>18104208
I don't remember who said it, but it was something like "when man takes his eyes off the highest of all, the only thing left to look at is what's below his feet, lower and lower"

>>18104060
how's the prospect of 50% tax rate treating you biden bro?

>>18110130
Probably in the books Cersei Will die early, and the final rival of Dany Will be young Griff/fake Argon, but Kings Landing Will still get torched

>>18113519
Im rich, and i know heavy taxes are needed for the welfare of the poors and persecuted minorities, so i'm more than happy with this, chud

>>18113620
>I'm rich
Not for long lol. Alright I'm sorry, let me correct myself.
How's the prospect of that 68% tax rate treating you biden bro?

>>18105713
>the genre of literary fantasy that is by it's very nature supposed to have a happy ending
The Lord of the Rings doesn't have a happy ending.

>>18110682
>do you kill all of the survivors
With orcs? Yes. Aragorn undoubtedly lead pogroms during the height of his rule.

>>18109155
The good man is killed halfway through the first book. The second good man is killed at the end of the last one. GRRM can comprehend good men, but perhaps he won't commit to one winning the day.

Incidentally, Aragorn becoming king isn't some grand triumph. Gondor in the fourth age is a shadow of greater kingdoms long past in a world that continues an unending slide into decline.

>>18110157
Bran becoming king has been obvious since the first chapter of the first book. Everything else seems up for grabs though. Dany going insane seems unlikely (though I suspect she'll become a tyrant), and Jon may not even come back to the Seven Kingdoms in any real capacity.

>>18110300
They begin the entire plot.

>>18111438
>I assume because Tolkien is sacred here?
Very few on /lit/ have read Tolkien, let alone find him sacred.

>>18104208
name one, literally ONE, other literary depiction of death by cholera

>>18105713
>This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper.
This man doesn't even understand the concept of ideals and what they're for. He'd probably think having myths is pedantic and an "educational" approach or something.

>>18110142
>This is what I think happened. The show broke down trying to shoehorn itself into the ending, so it's safe to say that ending, or at least the broad strokes (Dany goes mad, Jon kills Dany, Bran becomes King) are what we will get in the books
Yep. And fatfuck, who was already paralyzed like a deer in the headlights, is further paralyzed by the whole world shitting on his ending. On top of that, in the 10 years since his last book the world has gone 169% woke and will not tolerate anything other than Dany becoming a Negro and ruling over the world through sheer Critical Race Theory. He won't release another page of GoT.

On the 0.01% chance I ever write a book, remind me to never badmouth Tolkein publicly. It's bad juju

>>18114613
>remind me to never badmouth Tolkein publicly. It's bad juju
Why would any sane person badmouth Tolkien? Even if you're not a fan of him stylistically, the man was one of the most genuine, driven writers that existed in modern times.

>>18114621
I don't do it now but I've said some things out loud in the past just to see reactions, not because I actually believed it

I'm not a surgeon but if a towel is left inside a patient then I know that surgeon did wrong and is probably not great at their job.

I'm not a cinematographer but I did better work in high school video projects than some of the B films I've seen.

Your mom is a guaranteed whore btw.

There are some people who read and want to believe in a world where the good guys win and the bad guys lose, and at the end they live happily ever after. That’s not the kind of fiction that I write. Tolkien was not that. The scouring of the Shire proved that. Frodo’s sadness – that was a bittersweet ending, which to my mind was far more powerful than the ending of Star Wars, where all the happy Ewoks are jumping around, and the ghosts of all the dead people appear, waving happily [laughs].

You are all retards, wasting time baking up straw men versions of popular successful people. I hope it makes you happy.

>>18113710
Obvious in what way?

>>18107261
Holy shit, this just reeks of Reddit.

>>18114587
The ending of GRRM's series is Jon dies, no one gets a happy ending. He's never going to release the next book, not because he'll die, but because he's long since grown bored of the world and series. He stopped being a collaborator on the show after the fourth season.

Not that the woke brigade would even read another book of his. The world has moved on.

>>18115358

I don't think Jon will die but I think Jon will give up being Lord Commander, give Longclaw back to Jorah who is elected the new Commander and goes to live in exile with the Wildlings. I think Jon's TV ending will be the same as the books just his scenes with Daenerys will be replaced by Aegon.

>>18115386
>think Jon will give up being Lord Commander
I mean, if he is revived technically he has served until death then, right?

>>18108362
fuck he just knows

>>18115386
And Aegon really is Aegon and Jon is Ned's son from the Dornish lady who didn't an hero who is the hot septa.

>>18107261
Do ye want tae see what's under me kilt, lassie?

>>18116077
Ashara Dayne

>>18104208
what the fuck is this shit

no pun intended

>>18111438
>I'll never understand why GRRM attracts so much vitriol on this shit site
It's pure unadulterated envy. /lit/ is filled with failed writers who never even managed to finish a single shitty novella. Martin leads the life they want to live. Martin writes the stories they want to write. Martin receives the acclaim they so desperately crave. Martin enjoys the riches they want to harvest to escape their wagecuck existence. The failed writers of /lit/ wanted to be known as the Tolkien killer. They wanted to subvert all genre conventions and be showered with praise for it. But this will forever be out of their reach. Martin has it all, thus they hate him.

>>18116799
Martin has been churning out smut since before most of /lit/ was born you tard

>>18116799
That enough of /lit/ for the day George, go back to your Wordstar processer and get back to work.

> a single shitty novella
Don't bully the novella, novellas are cool. If ASOIAF was a short story collection or a series of self-contained novellas it'd be better

>>18115533

It'll be Jon then Theon takes the black and proves himself worthy enough to be 999th Lord Commander. After Theon dies then Jorah becomes Lord Commander. Theon is choosing between being sacrificed or taken the black, Asha takes Theon's place for being sacrificed and is burned by Stannis and co for morale boost since they need a Greyjoy and all to get the northern men rallied up.

>>18115386
>his scenes with Daenerys will be replaced by Aegon.
(f)Aegon will have Cersei's place as the main rival of Dany for the throne. He will be popular and well liked, while Dany will be see an evil foreigner invader with an army of slave eunucs, savage Dothrakis rapists and dragons

>>18103469
Real talk, is Gurm a pedophile?

If you watch interviews where people ask him which of his characters he'd like to meet, he often mentions Dany "because she's hot." This dude has some deep seated issues, doesn't he? Having been the poor fat bullied nerd in school has haunted him for all his life it seems, and even in adulthood he never got a taste of that young tight puss puss he dreams about. Instead he had to settle for some infertile she ogre. How else do you explain that all his most beautiful and desirable female characters are aged 11 to 15? It's pitiful really, Gurm is forever stuck in arrested development.

>tfw no chubby emilia clarke gf

>>18109897
>What would have been interesting (to me, at least) was a brutal, tyrant Stark King. Say, for example, after Bran and Rickon's "deaths", Robb goes mad with power. The Lords and people begin to turn against him and they (more so the Lords than people ) have to rationalise killing a heirless King of an 8000 year old dynasty. It would be more interesting than the current Stark plotline.
yeah, I was hoping for this too

>>18111501
hey newfag. rotation data is stored in the exif data, which is stripped from images uploaded to 4chan

>>18105747
The trick is to realise who the true main characters are, because they are virtually immortal, plot armour and all.

>>18116942
"Men find beautiful young women attractive"
*GASP*

>>18109019
I didn't get that part though.
Why did the dragons roast him? Wasn't he half Targ?

>>18117166
Age of consent is set at 18 for a reason, pedo.

>>18109495
>Turin's pride leads to the downfall of not just him, but his family and everyone who associates with him.
Nah that was just Morgoth being a fucking cunt. He was a cunt for all his life and the implications are that Eru created him that way on purpose. But on that particular day he was extra cunty.

>>18117168
It was supposed to be an epic subversion. In comes the fated hero who daringly tames a dragon with nothing but a whip and- whoops, nevermind, he's toast.

I swear if this thread turns into a fucking age of consent debate thread

https://vocaroo.com/LIykxejgdr

>>18109897
>What would have been interesting (to me, at least) was a brutal, tyrant Stark King. Say, for example, after Bran and Rickon's "deaths", Robb goes mad with power. The Lords and people begin to turn against him and they (more so the Lords than people ) have to rationalise killing a heirless King of an 8000 year old dynasty. It would be more interesting than the current Stark plotline.
You may get your wish fulfilled.
Arya may become a one woman secret service that will make Gestapo look like a bunch of hippies
Sansa is about to become the next Little Finger (he may probably disclaim how proud he is of her, when she stabs him in the back or something, or have a melt down after yet another Stark foiled his desires)
Bran is pretty much self-explanatory
But the real heir and the next King of the North (and maybe the Trident and maybe more) is that remaining sibling that has no POV to keep the theme of Kings not having a POV and that one is quite the berserker. Oh and Rickon is also a very talented Green Seer. At such a young age.

>>18116942
>This dude has some deep seated issues, doesn't he?
Oh yes he has. So many of his lesser known stories revolve around obese, unattractive loser guys or lonely ostracized freaks as their MC it isnt even funny anymore. The Pear Shaped Man, The Monkey Diet, Night Flyers ... deep seated issues for sure.

>>18117208
The whole fucking series is one huge ebin subversion.
Take any and every medieval cliché and it gets subverted

>>18117188
the first age of consent laws set it at 12 or 13 depending on the country

>>18103469
The Brothers Karamazov was never finished before Dostoevsky's death, and yet it stands tall as one of the greatest accomplishments in literature. The same will be true for Game of Thrones, whether GRRM lives to finish it or not.

>>18116812
That anon's not bullying the novella, but the writers of /lit/ who couldn't finish even a novella. Granted, I doubt most of the would be writers have the attitude to write and revise even a short story.

>>18117269
Arya isn't even Arya anymore. I doubt her book narrative will look anything like her show one. I doubt she'll even go back to Westeros, except maybe to assassinate someone as an actual faceless person.

>>18118118
Just like how everyone praises the Wheel of Time and haven't totally forgotten it in the years since Sanderson finished it?

>>18118449
I don't know, anon, Wheel of Time has a decent sized following for a high fantasy series. Nothing compared to GoT though.

>>18103469
Gurm drowned in libshit ideology for a decade, he hates the books.

>>18118433
I think the common assumption is that the Faceless Men know who Arya is and are grooming her for a specific purpose. They will probably ship her back to Westeros to get rid of some high visibility target.

>>18118433
On days she is essentially Spy from TF2.
On night she razes villages with the help of Nymeria.
All while she has absolutely no difficulties making friends wherever she goes.

>>18118433
>>18118717
She basically made a save copy of her entire personality with warging. She is basically cheating.

>>18105898
are yo calling grrm a reactionary? Do you mean this in a context other than political or is this bait?

>>18119134
>She basically made a save copy of her entire personality with warging
Huh. Never thought of it that way

>>18108027
It's not even the final book, he's still stuck on the 2nd to last after a decade and in his 70s

>>18112214
>>18108736
Conservatives do not have control over culture as seen by drag queen story hour, the state of media and esp hollywood elite, which was funded from moscow from the beginning. Look at mainstream conservatives rallying around "Caitlyn" Jenner and these guys are supposedly censoring books for sex scenes and are the "man" man. I don't think so. Take any RW figure today and send them back 100 years, they'd be a massively radical on the other end, take another figure from 100 years ago and send them back and see the same thing. Can do this until FR.

I know I sperged out I can't help it

>>18109191
Have you actually read anything written before the XIX century?

GRRM sucks btw

>>18109897
>They never really (that I can remember) act out of incompetence, they're betrayed
I would argue that both Robb and Ned are betrayed because of their incompetence, and if you consider Catelyn to be a Stark I have a handful of other incompetent moments to add to the list as well.
>>18108650
>I love how Martin didnt answered at half of these very same questions in his own books
But he does.
There are several passages about Littlefinger's efforts to raise capital for the crown, and what effects they have on the broader economy. When King's landing comes under siege and the food supply dries up there are uprisings around the city, and Cersei makes the decision to hire gold cloaks with the promise of a proper meal. Her plan doesn't exactly go as planned, but there you have your famines and standing armies.

>another thread of tolkiencucks seething about some random fatman quote from a decade ago
He rereads lotr like every few years. He's a bigger fan than any of you. Accept it faggots.

Wow you guys are so insightful. I wonder why none of you have succeeded in writing a published novel yet.

>>18119551
I don't think a lot of people in this thread care for Tolkien. I'd be willing to bet that a lot of people in this thread were once fans of the books but got burned with how little of a shit GRRM gives about them.

>>18116799
I have no plans to ever publish anything, reading is for enjoyment. I just think it's funny to shitpost about how paralyzed GRRM is after he was huffing his own farts

>>18118449
? It's vastly accepted as the epitome of heroic, high fantasy. There really isnt much to write in the genre after it, the scale and detail are too vast; no one is ever going to top that. Also, an adaptation series produced by amazon is airing this year, so I really dont see how you could label it as "forgotten". In my country it's even getting a fresh new translation that will be going on for years by the n°1 fantasy editor.

>>18111438
>Even though his books actually suck and only the movies are good
This opinion represents everything that is wrong with the modern world and I'm willing to bet that you've also not read them, at least not in any meaningful capacity

>>18120117
Anon its near universally agreed upon to be a good but very very flawed series, nowhere near the epitome of high fantasy come on.

>>18103469
novel? what was it? the dennys menu

>>18109595
>A lot of these effortposts are really good, but then they all drop the ball at some point, usually when they speculate about the series’ future, like this one.
Well, years back it was obvious that there are two ways the story could end:
1. Dany wins because of girl power. This is what most normies wanted from the TV series, to see a good white savior on the throne and setting everything straight with her OP dragons. This storyline would've been driven by GRRM's white knight feminism.
2. Dany goes crazy like her father. There are no good rulers, power inevitably corrupts one's morals, no cause is worth fighting for. This storyline was driven by GRRM's inherent nihilism and Vietnam era anti-war baggage.

The show was clearly setting up the number one choice, so when they jarringly changed it to the second one the viewers had major whiplash, which lead to a popular hatred of season 8.

>>18104208

imagine the smell

>>18105866

pretty much

>>18120400
They got a good ruler at the end though. Did you not watch the whole way through?

Bros, what if Aegon is really Jon and Jon is really Aegon? Would Eddard have been in on that though... Hmm

>>18116942
>If you watch interviews where people ask him which of his characters he'd like to meet, he often mentions Dany "because she's hot." This dude has some deep seated issues, doesn't he? Having been the poor fat bullied nerd in school has haunted him for all his life it seems, and even in adulthood he never got a taste of that young tight puss puss he dreams about. Instead he had to settle for some infertile she ogre. How else do you explain that all his most beautiful and desirable female characters are aged 11 to 15? It's pitiful really, Gurm is forever stuck in arrested development.
/thread. People grasp for these deep literary antecedents when the reality is he's a childless, permaincel who hit it big as an old man. I work in a world where I constantly interact with the very wealthy and the "nerd becoming very rich in old age" is an extremely reliable archetype.

It also explains why he's so easily been converted to public declarations of wokeness which he clearly, clearly does not believe. He had the power and stature to hold firm on his beliefs when GoT was at its peak; it was too globally popular to cave to the SJW's. But he didn't want 20-something white girls and trannies to attack him on twitter, so Orange Man Bad it was for the old coward.

>>18104208
I had no idea GRRM was jewish...

>>18120767
You joke, but he actually is a quarter Jew.

>>18120647
Hardly. Bran so omniscient and detached he can never relate to normal people. He can never be a good and just ruler, he's basically just an emotionless NSA-tier surveillance system bound to a wheelchair.

>>18104208
Why was this not the first thing they showed meabout this thing

>>18120849
> His mother was of half Irish ancestry. He also acknowledges French, English, Welsh and German roots, which were confirmed on the television series Finding Your Roots. However, while he also believed he was a quarter Italian because of who he was told was his paternal grandfather, a DNA test on the show confirmed his Irish and other ancestries but excluded any Italian ancestry, showing instead he is approximately a quarter Ashkenazi Jewish.

it's all so tiresome

>>18108362
I don't understand why people compare Tolkien's aborted draft with GRRM's work since they have nothing in common.

>>18121133
Take a wild guess who first dubbed GRRM the "American Tolkien." It was an atheist Jew of course, Lev Grossman.

>>18114823
only remotely clear-eyed post in the entire thread

>>18103469
It's a safe bet that he'll release The Winds of Winter towards the end of this year. He's been huddled up in his writing cabin for much of the pandemic and he has announced he's going to leave it soon. The Winds of Winter is coming. Want to earn some easy money? Place your bet now.

>>18103469
>dies before he can finish his shit novel
Oh, this sounds familiar. Asking for a friend haha.

>>18123387
He's 100% going to die before he finishes. His primary skills are world-building and stress eating and he's in his 70s. He became a celebrity writer by accident and can't take the public pressure; so he leans back on his primary skills and things just get more and more out of control for him and the books.

>>18111501
imagepipe works, it can also lower resolutions if the picture is too big.

>>18104208

>>18109351
Damn I never knew I wanted this

why is my thread still bumping after 4 days? kek

I admire all Martin’s writings

>>18104208

>>18126585
There's actually two Gurm threads up >>18126277

>>18126767
Yea I guess I find it odd that my thread lasted for so long
never thought I would come this far desu

>>18103469
His books turned out no different than Tolkien's.

>>18103469
Always make me laugh when retards think they are being original for "subverting expectations" when they were conditioned into doing it by the same structure they think they are subverting, their crap was already standardized before they were even born

Here is Tolkien being asked about the lack of sexual content in LoTR (timestamped)

https://youtu.be/bzDtmMXJ1B4?t=994

I cringe whenever I remember that I used to like ASOIAF. I didn't have enough reading experience

>>18126729
Trump has achieved orders of magnitude more in his presidency than Martin has in the equivalent time. Honestly the fat fuck should get a ghost-writer to finish his pulp novels.

>>18104208
this is one of the last paragraphs dedicated to Daenerys
if he dies this is how she will be remembered

>>18128819
I don't think it's cringe to enjoy it, it's more about having appropriate levels of expectations and emotional investment for different things/situations

MMMHHFHFFFFFFFF CHICKEN

>>18104208
unironically this is not bad writing

>>18104208
The writing is bad but almost none of you could say why. You are just grossed out by the reference to shit. Here's a paragraph of Leopold Bloom shitting. Can you see the difference? Be honest. If not, go back to read more books.

>Quietly he read, restraining himself, the first column and, yielding but resisting, began the second. Midway, his last resistance yielding, he allowed his bowels to ease themselves quietly as he read, reading still patiently, that slight constipation of yesterday quite gone. Hope it's not too big bring on piles again. No, just right. So. Ah! Costive. One tabloid of cascara sagrada. Life might be so. It did not move or touch him but it was something quick and neat. Print anything now. Silly season. He read on, seated calm above his own rising smell. Neat certainly. Matcham often thinks of the masterstroke by which he won the laughing witch who now. Begins and ends morally. Hand in hand. Smart. He glanced back through what he had read and, while feeling his water flow quietly, he envied kindly Mr Beaufoy who had written it and received payment of three pounds, thirteen and six.

>>18130188
kek

>>18122877
>It's a safe bet that he'll release The Winds of Winter towards the end of this year
I don't care if he was in his isolation cabin, I promise you it's not coming in 2021

>>18126729
I love how he says the house and the senate do not have the power to hinder him. They totally do just not when a huge proportion of both is on the same side. The political machinations author doesn’t understand how congress works.

>>18130188
It's shit.

>>18131223
>none of you could say why

>>18110682
Not only did he keep it vague, he struggled morally with this "orc question," and never quite came up with a satisfying answer

>>18130188
This is so laughably pretentious, it makes Gurm's shart porn look good by comparison. The latter is honest at least.

>>18128597
that interviewer is a fag lol

>>18131409
you truly can see the Americans are awake now

>>18130188
kek

>>18111483
Way to ruin a great BTFO, fucko.

>>18105834
Holy fuck, learn to use commas.

>>18103634
why don't you post about it on twatter and get him cancelled?

>>18103469
Is there any excuse for the fat man at all? He has been procrastinating for ten whole years, hasn't he? During the time he has failed to write his novel, fellow pulp author King has released twelve new works.

>The Dark Tower: The Wind Through the Keyhole
>Joyland
>Mr. Mercedes
>Finders Keepers
>End of Watch
>Gwendy's Button Box
>Sleeping Beauties
>The Outsider
>Elevation
>The Institute
>Later
>Billy Summers

>>18134454
yeah but all of King's work has been shit since he stopped doing coke

>>18134462
At least he actually does do work. Martin recently got another couple million dollars from HBO for essentially nothing. (They get all the adaptation rights for his future writing output lmao.) Besides which, I will argue that 11/22/63 (released around the same time as Dance with Dragons) is among King's better novels, coke or no coke.

>>18134462
>yeah but all of King's work has been shit since he stopped doing coke
As opposed to the masterpiece that was a Dance with Dragons, right?

>>18134462
i still wonder how Stephen King managed to survive the withdrawal

>>18119495
They dont explain of taxation in the Seven Kingdoms works tho

>>18114629
shitposting on 4chan doesn't count, we all do that

>>18103469
You have to admit, he has a friendly face and avuncular demeanor. Seems like he'd be entertaining to talk to.
It's a shame he's such a degenerate pervert with terrible work ethic. He could have written something truly great. Instead, his middling "epic" will never be finished, and be but a footnote of literary history (due solely to the TV show).
I mean, say what you want about King, at least that fucker writes

>>18135556
>is middling "epic" will never be finished, and be but a footnote of literary history
You really underestimate the impact of A Song of Ice and Fire. GRRM unironically is the single most important fantasy writer since Tolkien. An entire generation of writers has been influenced by GRRM's work and he has singlehandedly carved out a niche for "gritty realistic fantasy." A hundred years from now people will point to GRRM and say "If you like gritty fantasy, A Song of Ice and Fire is the seminal work where it all began."

>>18135556
>avuncular demeanor
Yeah, he's pretty handsy.

>>18119221
Nothing to do with politics. Tolkien set a precedent, he's been copied hundreds or thousands of times, and I think that Martin is trying to go against that tendency and go back to a more dark and grim fantasy, the kind you would find in pulp magazines (i.e. Conan).

>>18135984
>" A hundred years from now people will point to GRRM and say "If you like gritty fantasy, A Song of Ice and Fire is the seminal work where it all began."
sad but true

>>18135984
such is this history, and there is something very sad about that

>>18117288
Samwell Tarly

>>18135556
Too bad his current high-pitching giggling pertains solely to "huh? the wind is blowing WHICH way now?? ok, uh... white people bad, rape bad, women superior, and uh, can I have my HBO check now?"

>>18137473
Samwell is his obvious self-insert, but what are we to make of the fact that his self-insert is pining after a girl who was knocked up by her own father? Then again George really seems to enjoy incest, so maybe that just makes it hotter for him.

>>18135984
JRR is the only fantasy author anyone will remember in 100 years, or else culture is dead to me

>>18108727
based

>>18135556
>and be but a footnote of literary history
This is dishonest. Liking it or not, Martin works WILL be a major inspiration for future fantasy writers (and likely historical fiction too). What will be a footnote will be the TV show itself, to prove everyone than an horrible rushed ending can completely destroys the legacy of a masterpiece