/lit/ - Literature

Start with the meme trilogy

>>17902210
Start with the greeks

>>17902210
Anon, you know the chart that's always posted of /lit/ core? You know why those are introductory texts? It's because they're easy to read, get talked about a lot, and are popular works that also fits into the 4chan culture.

>>17902210
Eastern philosophy? Tao Te Ching, Bhagavad Gita.

Western philosophy? Herodotus (A historian but very engaging read), The Gospel of Mark, The Philosophy of History by Hegel.

>>17902210
the sticky is a good place to start. it has a lot of charts if you take a moment to figure it out.

>>17902228
How do I find the greeks without all those "with translator's essay" shit? I want hard copies because I'm very textile with reading. What's the name of the books I should get?
>>17902236
I don't come to /lit/ often enough to know. As stated, I'm a pleb. Why are those works good?
>>17902248
>Tao Te Ching, Bhagavad Gita
who is that and why read?
>>17902254
Will do thanks.

if you enjoy the book it has value :)

>>17902268
Regarding the Greeks literally just choose what interests you. Although some may consider it good to go in order of the Canon for context the Greeks are so fundamental to western culture along with their writings being almost universal in themes and concepts that you could easily just pick any book up from them.
Illiad, Odyssey, The Republic, Argonautica, Euripidies, Sophoculus, etc. Any will do.

>>17902334
>go in order of the Canon
This is where I'm stuck. I have no idea what is first or what order. Also still struggling to find copies without extra notes from the translator.

>>17902342
Just go to the wiki https://4chanlit.fandom.com/wiki/Charts

>>17902349
Saved, thanks. But about the annotation issue. How do I avoid?

>>17902236
It's funny, I read a lot, but I've barely touched that list. I still read lots of literary texts, but somehow I just avoided those. Maybe I should check more of them out.

>>17902236
>introductory texts
is this bait? Some of these are not terribly difficult reads, but Lolita, Ulysses, War and Peace, Naked Lunch, Infinite Jest, Endgame, Brothers K and The Trial are not "introductory" texts.

>>17902210
Animal Farm is for boomers.
If you read that you will go about telling people "1984 Was Not Supposed To Be An Instruction Manual" while doing absolutely nothing to prevent the dystopia you know is approaching.

Platos Republic is the foundation for all western governments and the starting point for most of philosophy.
So yea, read that one. It's good. Everyone should read it. It has already influenced you in many ways you don't know about.

>>17902355
Don't. If you really want to stay pleb, or have (the "pure" experience), just ignore the annotations and don't read the introductory remarks.

>>17902355
Honestly? You can ignore a good chunk of them. The notes are there for further understanding but aren't necessarily extremely important. Sometimes they are there to explain a word, or a reference, or some cultural artifact that may confuse the reader. Other times they explain how the fuck Russian names work(protip, they don't). So it just depends on what you actually care for if you need to read them or not. I usually do as I like to get better understanding but sometimes I'm too absorbed in the text to flip to the back of the book and read the note or to break pacing and read the bottom page.

>>17902369
Sometimes the introductory remarks may be superfluous, especially if you already know most of the context around the work itself. Although yeah if you want better understanding it's good to read them as they may contain information that is crucial to a higher understanding of the work.

>>17902366
This response is legitimately a boomer response by itself ngl. Orwell isn't just for people who pretend to understand social critique.

>>17902268
>who is that and why read?

Bhagavad Gita: The hindu God Vishnu aka Krishna, reveals how devotion and duty lead to liberation. At the end he reveals his true form as the all consuming demon of time, who's purpose is to destroy the world. Very eye opening work .

Tao Te Ching: Chinese proverbs written mostly dealing with non attachment and the subtle strength of the feminine.

>>17902369
Okay fine. But would you at least suggest who makes good introductory remarks? I don't want to ruin my understanding of something so important.

>>17902362
Why can't Lolita, naked lunch and Brothers K be introductory texts?

>>17902405
Orwell is not a social critique. It's conservative propaganda.

What does Orwell advocate for?
What's the message of animal farm?
Old = Good. New = Bad.

What's the message of 1984?
Look how awful things will be if anything changes.
Better not do anything to prevent that from happening because change is bad.

It's dreck.
Not because muh conservatives muh liberals.
It's just hollow boomerism.

>>17902435
>It's conservative propaganda
Orwell was a self-described socialist. You're just viewing his books from a modern day lens.

>>17902210
Any of Khaled Hosseini's books.

>>17902517
>Orwell was a self-described socialist. You're just viewing his books from a modern day lens.
No, no I am not. I'm not using the American "conservative" I'm using the phrase to describe the point of all of his works.

In every book. It's never a story about how to fix something, how to achieve something, how to overcome something.

All of his works are about people trapped in awful worlds, with no power to overcome the dystopia.
The message meant to be conveyed is "don't let this happen". not "Here is how to prevent this from happening".

Thus his work is conservative. It only wants to conserve the present, and has no plans for the future.

>>17902435
How can someone read Animal Farm and understand that? It's completely beyond me.

>>17902544
You entirely don't understand his work and you don't have a good understanding of Orwell. I'm legit astonished you're here spouting this shit.
His books were critiques of socialism, of which he was one. Again, you are viewing things from a modern lens which is entirely failed thinking.

>>17902210
Just read theory and repeat them. It saves time.

>>17902570
>Farmer Jones din do nuffin

>>17902572
>His books were critiques of socialism
His books had nothing to do with socialism.
Animal Farm showed the horrors of revolution.
Change the characters personality quarks slightly, Napoleon to Washington, Snowball to Arnold, and you have a story about the American revolution.


>Again, you are viewing things from a modern lens which is entirely failed thinking.
Please, explain then. I'm getting tried of being the only one saying anything of merit.

>>17902210
To Kill a Mockingbird is Christ tier.
Fahrenheit 451 is close behind.
Next comes Guns, Germs, and Steel.
Then it's Discworld.

>>17902544
dumbass thinks he knows shit. You've heard of animal farm and 1984 because those are timeless. Warnings inherently are timeless. Solutions are inherently time locked. Orwell wrote a shitload of nonfiction aimed at action in his time. But you didn't know that because you're a dumbass and you think you know everything.
Orwell even volunteered in the Spanish civil war and was shot, you dumb fuck.

>>17902653
>Animal Farm showed the horrors of revolution
Dude the fuck is this response? Lmao. Animal Farm was about the abuses of propaganda and the danger of manipulating the meanings of words. An issue that STILL exists, proving it's a timeless work.

>>17902700
Orwell was also a Journalist and Animal Farm revolved around his experiences as one.

>>17902210>>17902210
>Plato's Republic
no

Don't just dive into Philosophy.
I've read Bertrand Russell's History of western philosophy, you can tell he has his biases but he's a good read.

I would also recommend that you choose an author you read three of their books before moving on.

I love Orwell, I would recommend Homage To Catalonia, since your gonna be reading 1984 and Animal farm no doubt.

>I would also recommend Brave New World and Fahrenheit 451. They are similar to 1984. Brave New World is the best of the three

>>17902248
the CCP wrote this post.
Eastern is gay
Western is Chad.

>>17902219
Literally don't do that.

>>17902210
>Heavy preference towards philosophy works / social commentary is appreciated.
well no wonder why youre a pleb

>>17902700
Now your talking about the authors actions outside of the book. Irreverent. A faggot can suck a million dicks and still write a book about why homosexuality is wrong.

>Warnings inherently are timeless.
A broken clock is right twice a day.
History has proven this to be wrong.
I need only point to the government listening device you carry around in your pocket, while praising 1984.


Solutions are inherently time locked.
Citation needed. We still follow the Greeks guide to body building.

>Orwell wrote a shitload of nonfiction aimed at action in his time. But you didn't know that because you're a dumbass and you think you know everything.
I've been specifically talking about animal farm and 1984, and why they are bad books. Keep moving the goalpost because you can't answer any of the criticism I leveled.

>>17902724
>Animal Farm was about the abuses of propaganda and the danger of manipulating the meanings of words.
He says this, unironically after reading animal farm.
>Farmer Jones was the good guy because the author says so
>It's better to be a slave to a foreign power than have a populist leader
>Anything that requires sacrifices is not worth doing
The book it's self is conservative propaganda.
You give this to a child and there only takeaway will be "Revolution is bad. Farmer good. Pig bad."

>An issue that STILL exists, proving it's a timeless work.
I'm guessing you think a bunch of people dressed as Indians storming a harbor and destroying every cargo ships freight was a heroic act by patriots.

>>17904340
>ORWELL is bad
>hum actually I only said these books are bad, retard
GO BACK

>>17902210
As I Lay Dying

>>17904618
Your on /lit/.
We are talking about literature, not people.
Quit pretending to be retarded.
You have nothing else and it's glaring.

>>17904639
>"In every book. It's never a story about how to fix something, how to achieve something, how to overcome something."
>examples of books by orwell about those things
>UM THAT DOESN'T COUNT BECAUSE I ACTUALLY ONLY MEANT THESE TWO BOOKS
you're a stupid fuck. Kill yourself.

>>17902210
>vtuber

>>17904655
Now your fighting over syntax.
You have nothing else and you know it.

Yes I used every referring to 2 books that are the topic of this entire conversation. It's still accurate but both would have been a better choice.

Even if you want to extend this conversation to all of Orwell's writings, it does not refute my of my criticisms of the two books we are talking about.

>>17904778
kill yourself

>>17904817
I plan to when I'm very old.
Better to die on your own terms then wait for your body to fail.

How is this reverent to this discussion?

>>17904857
you are retarded
you say nothing
kill yourself

>>17904778
even in reference to those two books, 1984 was intended as a critique on the systems of government in existence at the time and a vision of what would happen if allowed to continue along the path they were set in. Animal Farm is about corruption and how communism cannot realistically be implemented without seizure of power (though Orwell was a socialist, there was still recognition of fundamental traits that would lead to this). This is, of course, heavy oversimplification but to label them as 'conservative' especially in the sense that they attempt to change nothing or want the world to stay the same is being ignorant at best, and idiotically detrimental to the works at worst

>>17904895
You would have to be pretty young to believe that spamming "kill yourself" to a stranger on the internet, would do anything other than make yourself look like a fool.

>>17904976
it's too late
you proved you are retarded and will never say anything
kill yourself

>>17904940
>1984 was intended as a critique on the systems of government in existence at the time and a vision of what would happen if allowed to continue along the path they were set in.

I don't dispute that, but the end result of people consuming this critique is a mindless mob of boomers posing "1984 Was Not Supposed To Be An Instruction Manual" on facebook from there cellphones.

Reading 1984 is on par with purchasing a rebellious shirt from hot topic.

>Animal Farm is about corruption and how communism cannot realistically be implemented without seizure of power
Animal Farm was simple propaganda.
All revolutions are bloody and tend to be awful for the people experiencing them. The American revolution, The American civil war, the French revolution, The Communist Revolution, etc.

During the American revolution the revolutionaries forced farmers to sell there food to the government in exchange for worthless vouchers, stole property from loyalists, publicly tortured and executed loyalists, terrorized civilians, destroyed private property, collectivized manufacturing, and ruined the lives of most of there supporters by not paying or rewarding them after the revolution.

And I doubt you would say it was not worth it.

What is the takeaway from animal farm?
current system = good
new system = bad and it will always be bad forever

>>17905108
We're still dealing with the repercussions of the American revolution, history is always full of regrets, and though not following any preset course, the revolution in Animal Farm was only present for maybe half of the book. You understand that the corruption of the pigs was representation that all ideals can be twisted and changed or reworded? It in no way advocates for societal stasis.