/lit/ - Literature

>>17896959
He wasn't gay but he was cucked.

>>17896959
I just bought his complete works and I am having a lot of fun reading it aloud. I think shakespeare might become my favorite author. Still working on recognizing when he switches to iambic pentameter.
It just nice.

he was gay, he was black, he was a woman
get over it

>>17896959
I feel like you need to specifiy that you are straight in one of your works nowadays or future pozzed westoids goblinos will call you gay for their propaganda.
Even so they'll say you were in the closet.

>>17897026
They'll just say you were so ashamed of your homosexuality that you denied it vehemently.

>>17897011
>woman
Fuck off bigot, he didn't identify as either genders.

1740

This board is full of schizos.

>>17896959
OP is gay and also a massive faggot.

>>17897062
Welcome home.
Tomorrow morning we're having another Blood Meridian thread.
After lunch we'll have a group-vent about what "post-modernism" really means.
For dinner we'll have a hot stack of books we pulled off the shelf to look erudite in front of other anonymous posters.

Some of his sonnets are pretty fucking gay. I don't want to meme but reading them made me think it was really fucking gay. Then I looked up what other people thought and everyone else seems to think it's gay too. Maybe there really is a gay subtext in his work.

>>17897105
I don't find them very gay
for one they are works he published not secret confessions, he saw them as works of art
2nd it was common to mire males while not being gay then, it was considered classy
3rd almost all the sonnets urge the guy to have children
4th there is literally no evidence from Shakespeare's life that he was gay, he was married and had children

>>17897142
>2nd it was common to mire males while not being gay then, it was considered classy
do anglos really?

>>17896959
The (((academics))) also tell you that prison-tier homosexual relationships in Ancient Greece were equivalent to our modern notions of homosexuality. It's there to fit the system's agenda of erasing the individual and lessening social friction.

>>17896959
He wrote love poetry addressed to a male.

>>17897156
In Rome maybe it was prison tier. In Ancient Greece they wrote poetry and plays and philosophy about how much they loved boys.

>>17897142
>he was married and had children
he got cucked and wrote about it in coded language

>>17897150
its what straight guys do, only closet gays are adamant that acknowledging that a guy is good looking must mean you're gay, I can think a car looks beautiful doesn't mean I want to have sex with it

>>17897164
Boys, not men. It's the same with Oscar Wilde. ((academics)) sanitize the past to make them seem like modern liberal homosexuals. In reality they were pederasts, who would be in jail today.

>>17897142
It's subjective but the feeling I got from reading it seemed more intense than just miring. On the other points I don't disagree. Obviously he wasn't a raging faggot like people today but he might have felt homolust a few times and wrote some poems about it.

>>17897164
The Greeks "loved" them in the sense of erotas, i.e. hooking up. It wasn't the modern notion of romantic love that was invented in the 18th-19th century and the LGBT claims today. This historical familiarization leads to an individual perceiving the system as eternal in a sense. This is an instrument of socialization.

>>17897175
why would they sanitize it if they want to subvert the west. Wouldn't it make more sense to glorify pederasty and use the ancients as justification?

>>17897188
That's just not accurate though. Most of the extant pederastic literature praises chastity, and views the ideal relationship between a man and boy as mostly sexless.

You've made the same mistake a lot of academics do, you have taken roman sources and assumed they apply to the Greeks. They had a fundamentally different worldview and understating of love. This isn't something you can understand in the broad strokes, by applying general principle. It is a specific phenomenon.

>>17897199
The system doesn't want to subvert itself, why would it do that? Read "The system's neatest trick" by Kaczynski.

>>17897204
Ok, my perception of Greek love towards is wrong, but let's both admit that it is intrinsically DIFFERENT than the modern notion of homosexual love. That's the thing, the liberal LGBT claims continuity with these traditions of antiquity even though there simply is none.

>>17897199
Pederasty fundamentally undermines the role of women in society, by massively reducing their importance. It also undermines the role of education and modern notions of adulthood vs childhood which underpin capitalism. We need people to have longer and loner childhoods/educations to ensure they can serve the needs of capitals most effectively. If you give boys agency and treat them as they are ( not as what capital needs them to be ) then the whole system is undermined. Pederasty is above all else anti-capitalist.

>>17897213
Yes it is. That's the point I was making. Modern academics / liberals lie about ancient greece and pretend it is similar to modern homosexuals. In reality it is very different. Pederasty is not the same as age coeval homosexuality.

>>17897206
>>17897214
I can't tell if this is pro-pederasty or anti-pederasty posting

>>17897214
I can just imagine Hakim Bey sat in a retirement home somewhere furiously typing this out.

>>17897229
This is neither. One can express an opinion about a topic without being either pro-X or anti-X. The point I am personally making is to make you aware that all these modern notions of continuity of liberal ideas in the (((academia))) with antiquity and such are instruments of socialization and uniformization of society, which threatens an individual. We have a word for that, it's called totalitarianism. The German Nazi claimed continuity with the old Reich, with German tribes in Roman times, etc., even though in reality their ideology was very novel and had no traditional foundation. Liberalism is the same totalitarian bs, so is Marxism.

>>17897256
>filtered by Nazism
almost thought you had a point for a moment

>>17897256
Marxism doesn't consider itself a continuation though, but as revolutionary change. Marx's innovation was to apply rational / scientific thought to communism. To move away from the utopianism and millenarism of previous generations of communists. Marxism is an explicit rejection of what came before.

>>17897214
that makes zero sense, when the west was more freely capitalist there was no compulsory education and boys worked jobs like anyone else, and women couldn't get most jobs
more education and more importance for women mainly grew out of the progressive movement at the dawn of the 20th century and still took decades to push through because industry resisted it

>>17897267
Yes, I did. It seems like you have reading comprehension problems. Where have I advocated for Nazism? I'm saying that modern SJW liberalism manifests itself in the same totalitarian fashion that National Socialism or Bolshevism did in the past. It uses same mechanism of uniformization of society and making an individual subservient to the system.

>>17897279
The west wasn't more capitalist then, it was just less developed. As the productive forces have built up the needs of capital have changed. Children in the workforce, and women out of it are not compatible with modern capitalism. They existed in the transition, only as a holdover of what came before, not as a fundamental part of it.

>>17897283
"filtered by" means you were put off by it when that poster thinks you shouldn't have been, it's /v/ speak

>>17897292
I can agree when it comes to women but I can't see rejecting the employment of children let alone paying for their education as something capitalism inherently would want, capitalism is about efficiency and min/maxing

>>17897277
Yes, so is Hitler's nonsense. So was the Protestant enlightenment movement, which was revolutionary and was antithetical to the Ancien Regime. Yet all three claim to have some deep connection with the people through these traditional continuities. Look at Hitler's propaganda. Look at Stalinist propaganda (talking like 30s Stalin after the Civil War died down and he purged Trotskiyists). It's always creating this facade of "the people" same way liberals will tell you about their "humanism" and how they're just "protecting people's rights". It's a form of collectivism and any form of such collectivism threatens the individual.
>>17897295
I guess I didn't interpret the statement correctly. Sorry, I'm an ESL.

>>17897303
Capitalism in its later stages needs an educated workforce, it doesn't need lots of illiterates doing grunt work. Not in the imperial core at least, child labour and much menial labour exists outside of the core.

Education also has another important role. It conditions people to accept arbitrary rules and overtly illegitimate and incompetent rule. Every person spends the majority of their formative years within a dictatorship. This is needed to prepare people for work life, where they will also live under dictatorship.

>>17897307
It's also populism or an appeal to populism.

>>17897334
Yes, I agree. It's a very frightening notion, especially considering the insane amount of censorship going on online rn. Let's be honest, the modern day social media are equivalent to public spaces and those public spaces are shamelessly censored by liberals to push their worldview and no other. You can't even google freaks like Alex Jones anymore, even though the most he could do is make you Texan soccer mom say some shit about the Dems. If they censor even him, then Jesus Christ we're in some deep shit.

>>17896959
He wrote sonnets to a male lover

>>17897349
Liberals / capitalists control everything. They are in a position of total unchallenged power. The Democrats and the Republicans disagree only on super-structural issues, they agree completely on all issues of the base.

>>17897050
which holds true for this anon

>>17896959
They also meme that he was a black woman. Modern academics aren't worth a single ounce of your attention.

>>17897356
the sonnets he published? there no evidence he were personal letters he wrote to a particular person let alone a guy he was having sex with

>>17897157
Writing love poems to friends wasn't considered strange back then. You have t o consider how different mindsets were in the past. Friendship between men could be so strong that when they died they opted to get buried in the same grave, like with John Henry Newman. People think Newman was gay because he wrote love letters to his friend, but in his diary he writes how he was tempted by women to go against his vow of celibacy. This just shows how sad the state of friendships are nowadays.