/lit/ - Literature

>>17724918
Wilbur Schuttlöd had some great ideas on the subject, took kind of a Puupfardian analysis on marxism (kind of turning a Marxists dialectic against him lol)

Niggers

Read Werner Sombart, he was a Marxist who turned National Socialist and Engels even said (prior to this) that he was the best expositor of Marx in Germany.

The least interesting form of national socialism is race-fetishization, that was the most vulgar and retarded thing about the Nazis. You can maintain "racial purity" without fetishizing race the way they did. The most interesting forms of national socialism are more things like Gottfried Feder:
https://counter-currents.com/2012/11/two-volumes-by-gottfried-feder/

These four articles are a good introduction to national socialism in the broadest possible sense, encompassing also Italian fascism and why Ezra Pound thought that it was possible to save the world from capitalist finance. The last one is on the Nazis specifically.
https://counter-currents.com/tag/breaking-the-bondage-of-interest/

Also these are good
https://counter-currents.com/2014/10/kerry-boltons-the-banking-swindle/
https://counter-currents.com/2014/12/kerry-boltons-peron-and-peronism/

>>17724937
Seconding this, Gottfried Feder was really the closest thing to an economic evangelist for National Socialism. If you're interested more broadly in Third Position ideas of economics I'd also recommend Othmar Spann's The True State and Oswald Mosley's papers.

>>17724926
I can't seem to find this person.

>>17724937
Thank you for your direction. You are the reason I asked /lit/ and I am not disappointed.
As someone who studies economics, I consider the focus on usury as the slaver on the economic bondage as outdated and economically-illiterate. But as an undergrad, that's from a one-sided perspective. Hope to understand the argument with these!

>>17724953
My notion of NatSoc economics is that they're volkisch-expansionist and similar to Islam in speeds and boundaries and such.

>>17724953
I'll skim

>>17724988
There's probably some kind of new, alternative form of economics to be done outside that has none of the pitfalls of "neoliberalism is the default economic state of humanity lol" and "USURY BAD." I think Tooze and a few others like him are at least looking at fully alternative ways of conceiving economics but idk.

I just wonder what a world with states strong enough to tell international finance to fuck off would be like. Every state would have its entrepreneurs and such, but they wouldn't be rootless moving targets who can crash entire economies.

>>17725026
My current conception is that nations of the world be treated as sandboxes (with oversight from an international body that'd protect nonrenewable resources and monitor for pollution etc.) that'd be loosely assigned resources to use. Trade wouldn't be a necessity to survive. Countries could choose to be stable or instable out of their own volk, but international bodies would provide enough favor or something to make racial uplift over time possible to some reasonable level (obv talking about africa). it's a whole thing with racial rights and relations between identities can amount to long-term understanding. That's a lot of the conversation when you're discussing economics. If nations aren't liable for high production (or else they're overrun by extreme consequences) there's a lot more leveraging to be done (leverage is about economic inequality).. any failure is implosionary and recoverable. that's my current concept of optimal relations/economics. i haven't done any serious reading admittedly

As a foundation, both systems revolve around the idea of enabling working class people

communism takes an unrealistic utopian route that working class people will be able to take control of the means of production and distribute it fairly and create an egalitarian society, a system intended to be by and for working class people. this right from the get go is flawed because it presents an unobtainable end goal with no viable way of achieving it. the complete centralized power required for a functional revolution and for a party to be able to take control of all property immediately defeats the purpose of the revolution in the first place, then you have the complications of reforming society while keeping industry functioning and food coming. these points are why every leftist revolution simply defaults to soulless totalitarian state capitalism. the economic utopianism played as virtue also opens the door to other utopian ideas, things like tolerance as a virtue, with the celebration of trannies, gays, feminism, diversity, destroying traditional morality and family structures, all that sort of "progressive stuff. this also works against the goals of communism by atomizing working class populations and playing them against each other with an infinite pool of petty grievances and racial and cultural divisions
1/2

>>17725249

National socialism is about simply taking a functional capitalist economy and making it work for the average people. as far as how this is achieved, for starters, you have a strict set of virtues that are held to virtually spiritual esteem that unify the population instead of dividing them. no divisions along racial lines or crying about brown people, no fighting over trannies and other degenerate self destructive cultural moral detritus, just one unified people. these unifying cultural and ethnic standards form the crux of how the system enables the people. this unified block props up the state, this obviously benefits government officials, and in order to stay in power and keep that unified power base going, the state of course has to pander towards those virtues of a unified race working together for the self respect and dignity of all the volk, and to do this they must address the issues of the capitalists of private industry and how they relate to the state and the people. the state uses a combination of negative and positive reinforcement to ensure cooperation of the ultra wealthy heads of industry with the state; they pay their taxes which allows for social programs to help the people, they make sure working conditions are decent, and they engage with the unified workers guild in collective bargaining. as i said, positive and negative reinforcement is used. they are obviously under pressure to cooperate or bad things will happen, but cooperation is rewarded and everyone benifits. this all creates a situation where the relationship between state, industry, and working class people is actually symbiotic, the working class people enable the state, the state enables the working class people by pressuring but also enabling private industry. if private industry or working class people betray the values of national socialist, the state is there to punish them, if the state betrays the virtues of national socialism and becomes too corrupt, the government loses its support mechanism and are deposed as private industry and the people punish them

>>17725262
as far as the specifics of what this all looks like for a working class person, you are still working hard to live like in any other capitalist society but, looking at how things played out in germany, pressure from the state and negotiations through the workers guild will mean you have better job security, improved working conditions and wages, things like payed vacations and on site facilities like gyms and benifits to use if you are working for a wealthy company that clearly owes the people as much for their labour, and from the government you have interest free loans for married couples to help kickstart their family, basic disability and old age benefits, rehab programs for those struggling with addiction, youth outreach programs to help keep young people from falling between the cracks of society, our basic welfare, and al sorts of state run charity programs to distribute food to where its needed

>>17725303
oh yea and basic healthcare obviously

>>17724918
There are none. Nobody that is retarded enough to be a national socialist is capable of understanding Marx. Most self proclaimed Marxists don't even understand Marx.

>>17724937
>having an intimately unified working class population is vulgar and retarded

>>17724918
There are none. Nobody that is retarded enough to be a national socialist is capable of understanding Marx. None of them have even read him. Most self proclaimed Marxists don't even understand Marx and a lot of them haven't even read him either. Unless you have read all of Capital twice, read Grundrisse, and have settled yourself in the interventions and current debates around Marx around figures like Heinrich and Postone you do not deserve to have an opinion on Marx.

>>17725325
No, obsessing over it and measuring negro skulls is vulgar and retarded. I'm white, you're white, who cares. I am not some fag who thinks "race is irrelevant," it's just vulgar to make it the chief thing.

>>17724918
It’s literally in Mein Kampf. Start there.

>>17725352
nah, a sense of ethnic nationalism has real utilitarian power over a person whos heart is in it. it gives them a little push in the right direction, to pressure them to make better decisions for both themselves as an individual and for their community. there is nothing vulgar or retarded about it

National Socialism, like Social Democracy, is a Bourgeois (Jewish bankers for you illiterate trolling /pol/ scum) plot to keep the proletariat divided and continually at war with itself

The only reason you care about racial purity is that the bourgeoisie/Jewish bankers can easily import Indians to take whatever NEET wank dream job you pretended to your waifu you were going to get once you grew up

>>17724918
it was early 20th century autism. totally irrelevant to today. attractive to resentful social outcasts right now.

>>17725372
Like I said it's an issue of extremes. I guarantee you I agree with you on most things, I just don't want right wing philosophy to be primarily fixated on midwits jacking off to their haplogroups and 23andme results. Right wingers who are only into fascism as an excuse to talk endlessly about the Bell Curve have a cold, vulgar, materialistic, scientistic perspective of reality that is practically bourgeois. You simply don't have to go that far to understand ethnic differences exist and incorporate them into your concept of your nation.

>>17725342
See >>17724937 on Engels and Sombart.

Postone is better than Harvey but what does either get you? Ivory tower talking, another hundred years of rich people talking about theoretical theories of Marxism in the ivory tower while sending their kids to the same colleges they went to so they can learn to do the same thing. Marxism died after '68.

>>17725392
>a system that explicitly unifies the working class population as much as possible and pressures them to respect themselves and eachother is aktually a conspiracy to cause the working class to continually be at war with itsself

care to elaborate on this, brainlet?

>>17725408
I dont think anyone genuinely interested in national socialism is interested in autistically purity spiraling, not even Hitler was lmao

>>17725365
My understanding of Marx as of present is that he's interested in the rebalancing of the owner-worker relationship, specifically of his time (a real problem!). His belief is that eventually (long-term), mankind won't be in conflict. It's the idea of resources as the divider. Hitler believes that some conflict/hierarchy is good for the volk and for the human spirit.. anything else is anti-human in his view.

>>17725342
I feel you. Sometimes feeling out the walls to a room without knowing what it looks like will have the same effect. even if mischaracterizations occur.. it's shabby but not dangerous. more information eventually corrects errors

NS dosent have any competence philosophycaly, sorry
Why do right wing writters are not as competent as left wing?
Bc right wing do not create an argumental alternative to the social problems the left write about. Whats the right wing opinion about the womens problem? About social inecuality? About banks? About lgtb? Nothing. They just negate that exist such problems bc of a lack of recognition. The're is no problem so we dont need to talk about womens rights or animal rights.
Thats how the right is less proficient in theorical terms. They ocupate less matters.

Thats why right wing authors like evola or jünger besides been good dont have many academic relevance or recognition.

Dont fool yourself looking for NS good critiques on marx to justify dont like it. Right wing cant teoretically comete with marx, thats why they just apeal to "human nature", "genetic darwinism" (wich dosent mean anything at all) or "jews" (they dont know nothing about torah or judaism, if you consider yourself nazi question yourself what you know about it).

tldr they are not any good critiques. Maybe The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism from Max Weber.

>>17724937
You cannot keep money but ban usury. People will still demand usury through circuitus routes. Like it is currently done in islamic banking, or how it was done in france old regime (which banned usury), before the french revolution.
If you have money, you'll have usury.
One way to keep labor bonds, but suppress usury, would be that those bonds would be named by it's owner. The worker who worked so many hours in order to obtain this labor bond, which would be named by his name, and thus couldn't circulate.

>>17725488
>Hitler believes that some conflict/hierarchy is good for the volk and for the human spirit..
We saw how that turned out for him and the german people. Reminder that today, germany doesn't exist anymore militarily, and is on it's way to disappear as an economic power. Reminder that from a "Volkish" point of view, Hitler was the worst thing that ever happened to Germany.

>>17725342
No one needs to understand Marx because his predictions were dogshit and all wrong. Meaning even his own "scientific socialism" analysis were riddled with errors

>>17726682
>Max Weber
>DooD read a social democrat brainlet that was a tool by capitalists to destroy the communist movement.

This board has dumber users than reddit

>>17726893
Max weber wasn't just a capitalist pawn but he was also a fucking moron that wanted the Germans to overthrown the monarch while pursuing German monarch ambitions like turning Germany into a massive empire.
He critiqued problems from a good viewpoint and then suggested evil solutions

>>17724937
Europe had the opportunity at the eve of WWII to make a clean slate of Arabia, large swathes of North Africa, Papua New Guinea, and South Africa. The relevant European imperial powers didn't, instead they undertook a world war that could well have resulted in the irrecoverable destruction of Europe. With the Anglo-sphere and Russia inheriting hegemony over what was left (close though not exact to what actually happened). However, a European imperial alliance would have assured Europe's dominance of the planet for generations, and outright settler colonization of underpopulated North Africa and Arabia, Papua New Guinea. Africa itself could have been left as a primitive game reserve on the one hand, with certain limit zones being for natural resource extraction and agriculture land, only where absolutely necessary would have the native population been taken out if its medieval cultural matrix. Instead population in Africa has been allowed to explode so that in the future it will be by far the most populous region in the world, overwhelming Europe and resulting in the general mulattization of the latter. It didn't have to be this way though.