/lit/ - Literature

You have to be willing to speak nonsense now and then, and just let the words flow out of you without overthinking them. Sometimes I find that my mind gets in a bind and every letter I type is wrong or misguided, it just manifests itself as some impediment to writing. I try to throw the feeling away and recollect being a kid again, drawing and doodling without preoccupations, directing my attention to something other than my judgmental brain. It's really hard to do it, and most of us will never be able to write like that. That's why poetry is so hard, not everyone can spit fire via writing. I don't think you can teach yourself (or anyone) how to do it, you either have it or you don't. We can all try to cope and say that practice will get us to the level of, say, Shakespeare, but that's just our hopeful braincells clinging to some naive conception of talent. We're not all going to make it, but you still might. If you can present some examples of this type of writing we can try to analyze it a bit.

>>17721781
Thanks for the suggestion of reminiscing childhood, it's an interesting approach, will try this.

>>17721781
I typically find it extremely difficult to write anything. Words come to me very slowly, even in speech. I just find it hard to express what I want to say meaningfully.

>>17721923
Read more. No weed or booze if you consume any. Caffeine + nicotine. Physical exercise and creatine. Your brain is probably full of shit and you need to clear it up.

>>17721923
You probably don’t have good verbal communication skills. I feel the same. Frankly, I can write gibberish and be long winded about trifles but if I sit down to write something I find important (like a book project), then it’s over. My mind curls into itself and nothing comes out. I’m basically using this thread as a free writing exercise and not even stopping to think about the point I’m making. It’s hard coming to terms with the fact that you’re not cut out to be a good writer.

>>17721935
>exercise and smoke cigarettes
ok boomer. enjoy cardiac arrest

>>17721731
Study Joyce, Faulkner, and McCarthy.

>>17721981
I said nicotine not cigarettes, are you dyslexic? Nic chewing gum, patches or vaping.

jezebel posting, didnt read
kill yourself coomer

>>17721999
why would you use any of those things for anything other than quitting cigarettes? what effects do you use nicotine for? genuinely curious

>>17721731
Here's a trick. Most of the time, everybody thinks using a set of culturally habitual templates and cliches. To make sense to people you have to hit on one of these basic images. Whenever you find yourself repeating one of these cliches, atop and "reformat" it with new language. Instead of saying "two birds with one stone" find a new metaphor, rebuild the idea with fresh materials. It's important to make sense but still have a snappy style.

You want to resist coming off as too clever because your average reader does not have the patience to think outside of their collection of familiar heuristic tropes.

Dumb answer, but find people who write like this and read as much of them as your can get your hands on.

Camille Paglia is a good example. Something she's said, she's inspired by Sappho, and aspires to likewise write in such a way that if only fragments of her work survive, regardless of how small they are, her whole personality will be evident to whoever discovers them, hundreds of years from now.

You should try to express, not just the content of your statement, but the meaning of it, how you see it, and why you're writing it. Don't be afraid of hyperbole. Aesthetics trumps fact, but the truth is the highest aesthetic.

>>17722018
Nicotine is one of the most powerful yet easily managable brain booster, unless we're considering the traditional cancer sticks. Produces very noticable increase in focus and cognition. Personally I'm vaping, but those are the alternatives if you think it's cringe.

>>17722018
Why are you chickenshit?

>>17722076
>implying vaping doesn't cause cancer too
LOL

>>17722137
Refer to >>17722098

>>17721731
Why you should listen to me:
I am talented at writing. It's likely the only true talent that I have, and I mostly attribute it to having a good understanding of the meta-principles behind it. At my 18th birthday, I scored better in standardized sociological essay writing than any university applicant in my country for that year (100k+ peers). Won a national competition on it too, with zero preparation.

What writing is:
A structured distillation of experience to abstraction, aiming to approach truth as close as possible. The advice of >>17721781 is the exact opposite of what you need to do. He advocates for mental vomit, creating a full of uncertainty and vagueness, which the reader has to shift through. When you get stuck, ask yourself: "What do I want to say in this paragraph?". Subsequently, simply write that, even if it is a single sentence, and format your text around this approach. When it comes to writing fiction, you should think of the creative aspect of it as the gun, whose only purpose is to shoot the bullet of the message you are trying to convey. What makes texts boring and keeps them from having the "lightning bolt effect" is an overabundance of filler, forced eloquence; arrogance, pride, vanity and manipulativeness on the part of the writer. Your only job when writing, is to write things that you are certain are true, either on a literal or on a meta-level.

Why you shouldn't write before you're in your forties and over:
You simply do not have enough first hand experience to be able to distil into something original, worth reading. You haven't interacted with life properly yet. The best you can manage to achieve is regurgitate and overanalyze other people's ideas, which makes for trite texts. Best case scenario, you might may be able to form three or four original sentences, and ramble on about them until you have the average New York Times bestselling book, but that still won't make it good literature.

>>17721731
Use only monosyllables and only punctuate with exclamation points.

>>17721731
Seek help or ngmi
https://youtu.be/Roq5ggxii_Q
https://youtu.be/XCBJkor71Ic
https://youtu.be/WrBoKSWjsBs
https://youtu.be/n859JePNKfY
https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/

>>17721731
Just tell me, what does it take to get a girl like that? I don't even care, I've accepted I can't get one, but I wish I knew what would be enough for her.

>>17722241
For sex: Athletic physique, arrogant cocky attitude, big pp

For "relationship": money and social standing

Simple as

>>17721952
Eat well and exercise

>>17721985
McCarthy doesn't belong there

>>17721731
command of vocabulary, intentional sentence structure, avoidance of cliche, employment of figurative language, confidence

not gonna model it like these other tryhards ;)

>>17722202
>>17721781
Both of you are right, but one is right brain advise and the other one is left brain advice. You need to synchronize both sides of the brain in order to get the most out the logical and the intuitive.

>>17722202
> At my 18th birthday, I scored better in standardized sociological essay writing than any university applicant in my country for that year (100k+ peers)

lol

>>17722032
Not op but how do I follow this being ESL. I'm not familiar with 'culturally habitual templates and cliches'. Everything I know about the English speaking world, I know them from books.

>>17722384
If you have seen something expressed a specific way before, avoid that.

>>17721731
I would spend 24/7 with her feet in my mouth

>>17722044
To expand on this, literally write out passages by the the authors you adore, exact word by word. This helps you get familiar with the mindset of the author you're trying to replicate

>>17722241
She's some Brazilian instagram whore
a western passport should be enough

>>17722384
Then why would you even try to write seriously in English? Sure, you have examples of non-natives stomping out the competition in figures like Conrad and Nabokov, but these guys spent long periods of their lives living in English-speaking countries. No matter how many books you read or shows you watch, you can't get a feeling for a language's inner logic without interacting with its native speakers. I'm also ESL, by the way. Don't fall for the trap of trying to make it in the Anglosphere if they haven't given you the membership card beforehand.

>>17722202
Are you published yet?

>>17722400
keep a commonplace book and anytime a sentence strikes you as nice, copy it down. soon u will be a habitual nice sentence writer

>>17722409
Of course not. People who brag about doing well in tests, exams and other types of formal settings with examiners are usually uncreative and over socialized simpletons.

>>17721731
as with every other skill in life: experience

>>17721731
WRITE IN CAPS ASSHOLE

>>17722372
This advice at best would merely guide someone to avoid writing in a boring manner, which isn't what OP is asking

Just copy the way successful authors write. Even if you're writing completely different stuff, you can feel and copy the patterns. It's either retarded or genius depending on whom you're talking to, but it's easier to write entertaining stuff from a template. The striking effect can be sought after once you have the reader's interest. You don't have to be a genius to write a compelling story.

>>17722407
>Then why would you even try to write seriously in English?
To shitpost and arguing with strangers ofc =)

>>17722424
You're probably right, but he did write that post well.

>>17722470
>creating a full of uncertainty and vagueness, which the reader has to shift through.
I mean sort of

>>17722465
>>17722407
On a serious note, I have writing aspirations in English in the near future.

Study F. Gardner.

>>17722448
If you're writing books with this method, people will probably call you tryhard [X], X denoting the author you're replicating.

>>17722485
Why? Would you care to explain your reasons? Do you currently live in an English speaking country? It seems insane to write in English just because it's the dominant language of the day. How do you intend to "make it" into a literary scene that, by definition, does not want you at all?

>>17721731
Write something and ask people how it makes them feel. If they say something like "this sentence really is like a kachang" or "this sentences bristled all my asshole hair" then you know you're in the right direction.

>>17721731
Read the poetics and Rhetoric by Aristotle

>>17722498
Kek. He actually does this well.

>>17722510
Not that guy, but I kinda get. Where I am from it's commonly known you can hardly make a living from writing, and that holds even if you're a top-selling author. So as much as unprivileged you might be writing in English being a foreigner, you can still be in a better position than trying to make it in your country. At least if it works, it works and you will have things to eat.

>>17722575
Not that guy, but I kinda get it.*

>>17722575
But the thing is: even actual Anglos usually can't survive on writing alone, and being published by a big corporate publishing house is something reserved for a very small circle. If you come from a Third World country with a devalued currency (in relation to the Euro and the Dollar) you're probably better off setting up a Patreon account and producing YouTube content with writing being a side gig. Depending on how bad the currency rate is in your country you can actually make a buck this way.

>>17722434
Incorrect, and you've inspired me to add another point, which is to never write quibbles about nothing. Bring value or shut up.

>>17721731
The wad of jizz I would implant in this girl‘s ass would make Christmas morning look like the Serengeti

>>17721731
I'm fairly convinced that ability to write is an inborn skill. You can hone it of course, but it's the same as playing a sport, you have a genetically defined boundary of possibility. Trying to explain to people specifically how to write is kind of pointless, you learn it by doing it and observing the efforts of others, and the process itself is mostly instinctual in terms of actual execution.

Genuinely APPALLED by the lizard brain cooming drivel on display in this thread. Stop obsessing over slimeholes you neanderthals.

>>17722405
Manda o perfil aí, viado.

God I'm so fucking horny I'm 24 and have never had sex I don't even know where you meet girls to physically try to fuck

>>17722695
mostly bars and parties
Not a lot of guys try to ask out women in just random everyday scenarios, mostly out of timidity I guess.

>>17722710
Bars make you sit down and you can't go up to random people because of the quarantine shit. I don't know anybody who throws parties all of my friends are single guys like me. I don't meet any women my age in my day-to-day life.

>>17721731
thats extremely narcissistic. Write what's important, stop trying to dazzle and wow with every sentence.

>>17722710
In some countries outside the US that's just creepy and socially unacceptable behavior.

>>17722735
>quarantine
well yeah that kind of ruins the whole thing. dating apps I guess

>>17722741
the US is not even known for that compared to like France

>>17722735
That's my problem. When I write, I always try to impress, to be original and whatnot. And I don't believe that's right. That's just that truth can be boring and boring hurts your ego.

>>17722741
*in your atomized incel worldview that is creepy and socially unacceptable behavior

>>17722741
In Europe, the man is pretty much expected to approach women at clubs and parties.

Other than that, sex usually happens within your social circle - friends of friends, school, work. If you're a loner or friends with bunch of other incels, it's going to be difficult.

>>17722510
>Why? Would you care to explain your reasons?
I'm the one you replied to. These are mostly my reasons
1) larger audience
2) I've read better books in English than in my native lang. Sometimes I read beautiful prose in English and I get inspired to replicate that. I have rarely read equally beautiful prose in my native lang, because literary scene is not very strong here. Hence I subconsciously grew a stronger attachment to English as I read more and more English books than my native language.

>>17722754
I don't know, I imagined in the US that's a pretty normal think. Or at least that chatting with strangers is. In here it's cultivated only by old folks in public transport that have no one to talk with other than that. Otherwise, it doesn't happen.

>>17722685
Are you gay or something?

>>17722655
learn to take criticism fag

>>17722743
Dating apps don't lead to anything, the girls always stop replying if they even reply at all when we match

>>17722786
No, it literally is like that. It might be hard to imagine but that's the truth. It isn't just my impression of things, I've seen it being talked over and that was always the conclusion.

I'm talking about asking out in everyday scenarios of course, not in clubs.

>>17722359
His sentences strike the hardest though, which is what OP is after. I would take out Joyce, he is softer, more towards beauty.

>>17722575
I wonder if the profit/earnings curve of writing matches that of onlyfans (the top few people making the vast majority of the money, with the rest barely making anything)

>>17722810
That's what I'm talking about. But >>17722786 knows better.

>>17722507
They won't if you replicate multiple authors at the same time.

>>17722810
My friends aren't incels they're just not women. MY one friend has a girlfriend and we hung out with her friends a few times but otherwise I have no real interactions with girls my age. I don't think I've talked to a girl my age in like a year.

>>17721731
Rhythm, musicality (variety, visually, morphemically); polysemic harmony across the text and within individual sentences themselves. Symmetry and counterpoint. Punctuation that enhances drama/rhythm and never interferes with it. It should read aloud unencumbered as well as it does silently.

>>17722202
>What makes texts boring and keeps them from having the "lightning bolt effect" is an overabundance of filler, forced eloquence; arrogance, pride, vanity and manipulativeness on the part of the write
This. Solipsistic naval gazing POV monologues and prolix purple prose gilding lillies

>>17722384
There’s always a tighter syntactic option, especially if it’s mirroring your mother tongues grammar

>>17722675
Everyone can be trained in rhetoric to the point where they have a passable facsimile of good style/composition.

>>17722854
Even worse, and that’s including the disposable schlock merchants

>>17722675
Even if it is an inborn skill, you still start from a point of indexterity. If you go to the earlier works of most good authors, you'll find they were a mess, not nearly refined or chiseled as their mature works.

>>17722899
>Solipsistic naval gazing POV monologues and prolix purple prose gilding lillies
What the fuck did he say here

>>17722899
>This. Solipsistic naval gazing POV monologues and prolix purple prose gilding lillies

love that part

>>17721731
Just read everything you can get your hands on.

>>17722202
>You simply do not have enough first hand experience to be able to distil into something original, worth reading.
This is probably true

>>17723154
So Kafka had nothing worth reading because he was 30 something when he published his stuff? Nonsense.

>>17722018
If you take a bit too much it really gets the bowels moving

Write with poise and passion. You need to learn the technique before you can go wild with flare. I'm the best writer on this shitty website by a country mile and will offer no further advice.

>>17723215
>with flare
>I'm the best writer on this shitty website

>>17723224
>Thinks it was a mistake
I was honoring the 'write nonsense' anon above, since his advice was truest to the creative act. >>17722202
This is the kind of fool encountered in academia who has nothing of worth to contribute and should be avoided at all costs yet whose charisma destroys many talents at an early age. Flare it is, flair it can be, flatulent it should always merrily remain.

>>17721731
give you a hint, it's not the words, it's the truth and the meaning behind them. That, and superfluous verbiage not getting in the way.

>>17721731
this pic is covered in red flags

>>17721781
The narcissistic ramblings of a retard hocking corncobs strung together from the kernels he finds in his shit. You're no farmer.

>>17722155
Listen here, you brainless, oafish nigger. My point is that if he’s so against cigarettes and even calls them “cancer sticks” then vaping is retarded. He’s accomplishing the same thing while deluding himself into thinking he’s better than people who smoke cigarettes. Just smoke cigarettes

>>17723278
what other than the hand tattoo?

>>17722899
>Everyone
have you met Everyone, because the guy can be a real dumbass

>>17723215
Post a passage you've written, best writer on this shitty board.

I love /lit/ on the weekend. Continue with all the gem advice fellas

hard consonants, spondees, avoid anapests. let meter reveal itself in flashes, but always deniably.

do this sparingly. it's tiresome if you're always forcing it. and even the sharpest-tongued are often a hair's breadth from making the reader roll his eyes.

>>17723364
Do you consciously watch these things when writing posts?

>>17721781
you sound insufferable

>>17721731
nigger
nigger
nigger
nigger
This usually works with most readers.

>>17723184
kafka was a genius. ur posting in a writing advice thread on 4chan

as others have said, you have to free your mind completely and generate a billion stupid ideas to come up with WHAT to write. then you have to edit the living shit out of it like a butcher and that will be HOW.

>>17722381
I am the best across all of my higher-education-pursuing peers in my entire European country. Assume a normal distribution and see in what percentage I end up.

>>17722409
Reread my last point. I stopped fantasizing about publications once I understood that I wouldn't be able to contribute something of worth at this age. Even if I did manage to have an original thought, I could probably not fill two paragraphs with true substance at this age.

>>17723241
I'm in medicine and biotech research, indeed involved in academia. You may actually have a point somewhere in there.
Let me clarify that I don't exactly advocate for the purist, castrating, academic style of writing. The rules can be bend and broken if the writer is skilled enough to pull it off. However, this skill only comes through a time period of following them to a T, so that the writer can become intimate with their limitations. That's pretty advanced though; most "writers" assume that rules are there to be broken, and don't understand that they serve as guidelines that provide the highest probability of consistently writing high quality text. This in turn produces texts that are representative of the low-value, murky mess of streams of thought and uncategorized raw experience. As far as needless flatulent flare goes, I'll be rotting in the ground before I dilute a good script with a single unnecessary word.

>>17723621
You’re just an effortposter with a massive ego. You even screwed up a comma in this small paragraph you just wrote. I’m sorry, but you are just a normal human being who was properly educated. You will never be able to “contribute” to literature (what a stupid notion, literature isn’t your inconsequential research interest). Most people know the rules are there as guidelines for mutual understanding. Most people just intuitively get that following them is necessary. Only a minority of fags truly think you need to wake the finnegans from their dogmatic slumber in order to write well. Sorry, bro, but you’re stuck with the rest of us.

>>17723621
Let me ask you something. How often do you run to a thesaurus while writing?

>>17723621
are you ESL?

Learn logic and how to argue properly. Read poetry. Listen to good music. You lack the ability to write interesting prose because you do not understand how things come into their own through gradual succession. There is an ascension, a payoff, a plateau, and a crescendo to every satisfying idea.

>>17723621
what part of europe are we talking about here, rural albania?

>>17723764
Never for 4chan shitposting in the middle of the night. When it comes to texts I care about, over 70% of my time is spent editing. Should be obvious I'm ESL, but I can live with it.

>>17723707
>Most people just intuitively get that following them is necessary
Most people misunderstand the rules, follow them only whenever it fits their train of thought, and even do a poor job at that. About 80% of NYT bestsellers can be summed up in four to five sentences. On the other end of the spectrum, many published essay writers and editors who write "opinion pieces", follow no structured way of presenting their premises and conclusions, have no easy-to-follow correlation between their paragraphs and resort to "style" to appear smart and informed. I can tell within seconds of looking at a text if someone understands what writing actually is. If he does, the substance of the text will be staring me right in the face. If he doesn't, the "truth" that he wants to express will be drowned in filler, or made vague through poor structure and overreliance on various stylistic techniques. Bad writing is little more than lying, sometimes conscious, more often unconscious.

>>17723812
Crab bucket mentality. I sleep easy knowing that you're stuck 24/7 behaving that way towards yourself, and only lash out against others when given the chance, such as on an anonymous forum for fucked up people.

>>17723782
Yes.

>>17723809
>You lack the ability to write interesting prose because you do not understand how things come into their own through gradual succession.
Relevant rec: Max Weber: The Vocational Lectures

>>17723888
Why are you even working so much on English being being in a non-English speaking country

Imitate and steal from the best of the best without remorse, practice and refine constantly, make every syllable important, make the whole reflect in the part and the part reflect the whole. The Novel and all long works are usually filled to the brim with things which do not leave a mental impression after the reading is done, short stories condense this, good poems condense this down even further. You should want every section of the work to be like a series of highly well crafted poems each of which can stand up by itself.

You are not better than Flaubert who could take a week for a paragraph, you are not better than Shakespeare who needed constant refinement, you are not better than the ancients, therefore you ought study Aristotle, Dionysius of Halicarnassus, Horace, all of the greats. And every novel, short story and poem should be approached as a textbook.

>>17723898
What do you mean? I don't write in English.

>>17723911
>The Novel and all long works are usually filled to the brim with things which do not leave a mental impression after the reading is done
Why do you say this? I frequently recall parts of novels that made an effect on me while reading.

>>17723992
That’s the key, you remember parts and impressions, subtle sequences, how many parts have you forgotten? How many scenes weren’t memorable? How many didn’t strike the mental cord or leave anything for you but were utility for the plot or the imagery that it actually wanted to convey?

I am not saying that novels cannot leave images, but rather after a month if I try to recall a novel, most novels even of a high quality will be reduced in the memory into a sequence of best bits, most memorable parts, whereas a perfectly crafted short story is remembered almost in entirety in its sequence while the great poem is remembered word for word, scene for scene, flash for flash even if it is very long this can be the case. I am not saying the novel cannot reach the height of these poems, but rather you should write the novel with the same care as you write the short poem.

>>17723923
ESL here too. How do you balance your native language and English? For example, I've noticed that if I concentrate on one for a bit, my skill on the other suffers. It's like a constant tug of war for me always. Does this happen to you?

Secondly, since you said that you rarely look up a thesaurus, did you you strengthen your vocabulary by specific methods such as writing down new words, frequently applying them in sentences, or you just absorbed them by reading a lot?

>>17722202
>What makes texts boring and keeps them from having the "lightning bolt effect" is an overabundance of filler, forced eloquence; arrogance, pride, vanity and manipulativeness on the part of the writer. Your only job when writing, is to write things that you are certain are true, either on a literal or on a meta-level.

I agree with this.
I see a lot of writing practice on this board following a very bad piece of general advice that is often taught in primary school. That is to use similies to over describe mundane details, and to beautify writing aimlessly.
>he crept in as quietly as a mouse
It's been done 10,000 times, and it doesn't help to convey tension or context.
>the grass shimmered with drops of dew, as if the ground were covered in tiny stars
Why would you need to beautify simple grass like that? Unless someone is in an enchanted garden with magical grass.
>The dark mouth of the alleyway beckoned him in
oh noe, the alleyway is going to eat me

(deep)
syntax

symbol, sequence, sound
| | |
| | fittingness, consonance (assonance, alliteration, rhyme), rhythm
| proportion, memetics, juxtaposition, spelling, foreshadowing / expectation, perceptual narration, dense evocations
| | | | |
| | | | visual patterns, anagrams, near anagrams, pynchonesque distortions
| | | antithesis, illogic (intentional confusion), incongruity, misdirection, bathos-anticlimax,
| | | ultrarare collocation, ironic paradox, sudden spacetime flickers, flashbacks/forwards,
| | motif/brick/arc, equivocation, mysterious and profound coincidence,
| amplification/circumlocution/paraphrase, concision, omission (suspense), sudden scope or domain shift
descriptive, suggestive, figurative
| | |
| | metaphor, metonym, hyperbole, euphemism innuendo subtlety sublimation paraphrase
| | |
| | implied, personifying
| subtle: memory, motive, mood (suggested by similitudes & transference in the manifest & verbal)
| (for narrator, character, or reader?)
manifest: settings, visions, reveals; circumstances, choices, consequences; atmospheres, sensations, callbacks

logic
(meta)

WIP

>>17724069
Also
You get speech that doesn't sound like something a real person would say. Contrived speech makes a clang.
When two people are speaking it often sounds like snappy banter from a sitcom or something.

>>17724069
I don’t think there’s a problem with beautiful prose, I think it depends, i think stacking similes is pointless but when they’re spaced out and done well they’re lovely. Though I do not see a problem with every bit of nature and scenery being lovely, I think this comes up to the type of writing you’re doing though. A drama heavy piece has no reason to focus on nature or the environment, an atmospheric piece going for a heavy aesthetic very well might require a lot of details on the lovely or terrible nature of the area.

>>17724152
Couldn’t disagree more, why would I want to hear realistic normal people having a normal conversation. Couldn’t care less. Rather they speak beautifully and in a fascinating way as if there was no real break between the beauty of the general aesthetic and environment being conveyed and then admixed with the words of the speaker. Something like paradise lost does this well.

>>17724061
good posts dude. this is also why it is important to reread books from time to time. new building blocks reveal themselves with each fresh read. author/work-specific criticism will get you even further. i’ve seen people on lit make fun of nabokov for caring about specifically what bug gregor samsa turns into, and missing (or disregarding) What It All Means, Maaan, but i personally find this sort of literary dissection fascinating. if it can be studied it should

>>17724152
>>17724196
i often think that with dialogue people mix up ’realistic’ with ’natural’. by all means, slather it in style, just make sure it sings

>>17724199
Oh no I agree, nabokov is a fascinating example because he clearly wrote entire lines and sentences just to fit around particular words he found lovely, he would write on cards line that hit him powerfully and then assemble them into a narrative in order to maximize the power of it, he even has a whole part of pale fire where he talks about how certain words sound nice and can trick you since their actual meaning can be ugly and it’s a hard thing to balance.

I once experimented by taking the words which have more or less scientific verification for being some of the most beautiful regardless of content and composing a little poem with them, and then mangling how they look so that no part of their referents exist just the raw sound, I think it sounds pretty nice.

tremulous echos my lullaby
my melodies among marigolds
murmuring Mellow with the butterflies


twilit tendrils of lunar dusk blossoms
dawn’s russet raiments rest tranquil
resting in the crystalline silver chrysalis
sat in the center of the stellar gardens
as the asphodel hears the whispers of gossamer
weaved by the luminous magic of the moon

I caress my olden oleander
approach my cellar door
enter, and even I rest
upon a bed of eiderdown

Trehmulus eh kowz mailuhluh-bai
mai melo dees ah mung merry golds
myrrh muring melow with but ter fleyes


twilyt tendrels ov Loonar dusk blusoms
daan’s ru suht reiments rest trang-kwil
rehsting in a krystal ein silver krysalis
sat in thuh senter ov thuh stelar gaar denz
az thuh azfodel hears the wispars ov gozah myrrh
weeved bai the Loomenus majik ov da moon

eye caress mai ol den ol leander
app roach mai Seladoor
enter, and eeven eye rest
uh paan ah bed ov aidurdawn

And sound must be balanced with beauty of narrative, motif, character depth and so forth. There’s a lot of elements which have various options which can be combined in so many odd ways. It’s fascinating to study.

>>17724221
Couldn’t agree more in that regard.

>>17722202
Is this copypasta?

>>17721731
Advice from anyone on this board is worthless. My books are self-published grammatical errors in the narrative form, and yet, I have accomplished more in writing than 99% of this board.

>>17721935
>fitlit fag

>>17724765
>NOOOOO YOU CAN PURSUE A HEALTHY MIND AND A HEALTHY BODY THATS HECKIN WRONG NOOOOO

>>17722076
Wouldn't the eventual addiction to nicotine cause the inverse to happen?

>>17723411
no of course not

the answer, quite short: intelligence

>>17721731
foota

>>17722854
it is called a power law distribution, and an angry arab wants you to know that they are everywhere

What's the Loomis or starting strength of writing?

>>17723891
I'll check it out, thanks.

>>17723281
Kek.

>>17723621
Heh. Nice try, kid. I'M the best across all of my higher-education-pursuing peers in my entire European country. Better luck next time.

Some tips I though up if I ever want to try writing.

Dont write. Dictate.

Have actors read your writing as you write it. If you can't get actors use puppets.

Google translate your writing. Then Google translate it back again. Then fix it while making as few corrections as possible.

Don't use question marks?

Don't use any punctuation. If it can be read without any punctuation then it is probably sufficiently punchy. Punctuation is a crutch.

I never tried any of these cuz I am too lazy to write.

>>17721935
based

>>17724248
>he would write on cards line that hit him powerfully and then assemble them into a narrative in order to maximize the power of it,
Fascinating indeed. Where can I read more about it?

>>17721781
>>17722202
The sum of these.

>>17721923
Try thinking in images. Start by getting a picture of a scene in your mind, also focus on the feeling you want to convey to the audience. Then go about by describing it. You can do this in broken sentence fragments or even bullet points like in note style. If you develop shorthand that'll be even better, that way you can write faster without focusing too much on the words. Go back and read what you got and play around with what you have. Grab a thesaurus and a dictionary and just have fun rearranging your sentences in fun and meaningful ways.

Practice, Practice, Practice and most important of all is have fun!

Study aphorisms. Consoom high quality authors. Study the latin and greek classics, Nietzsche, the French moralists (good French lit in general; for example, Stendhal, Prosper Merimee). Try to simplify your writing, I always think of the way Nietzsche described the Greeks (Those Greeks were superficial - from profundity!). Extract the core of your thoughts, think of your writing as a mixture of laconism and something you deem as good style.

>>17721731
It depends on the content and your personal experience with it. Someone today writing about the Gulag will not ever compare to Solzhenitsyn writing about the Gulag. Once there is something you feel deeply about, technique and writing skill come into play in conveying your message.

>>17721935
Nicotine is for faggots, sorry mate

>>17722405
kek

>>17721731
Read Flaubert.

>>17721731
Clarity, power, and substance. Don't be obtuse in a desperate effort to sound original. Go for clear, vivid images. The best writing simplifies the expression of nuanced ideas. What strikes people is when big things come in small packages. When a sentence does more than it has any right to do.

>>17727918
>The best writing simplifies the expression of nuanced ideas.
Not really. Read Lolita?

>>17728111
Lolita is overrated. In any case Nabokov is a clear writer, even though he tends toward maximalism. His ideas are clear rather than confused, and he carries through with them. There's a rhythm and he knows how to slow down and speed up where appropriate in terms of sentence complexity.

>>17728139
Speak, Memory, is a better example of his style in this regard IMO.

>>17721935
Based this is 100% true. (you) or anybody would be shocked at how much diet and exercise (and getting rid of drugs) affect your ability to think clearly, it's amazing

>>17721731
>each sentence strikes like a lighting bolt
How is this meaningful? Do you feel paralyzed after reading those kind of stuff, or do you mean a sudden enlightenment? Both at the same time, maybe?
Why do you want to smite people, anon?

>>17721935
Caffeine is anything but helpful for a healthy lifestyle

>>17728205
explain

>>17728148
Seconded. I know this very well, I experienced it many times and yet still I'm always surprised how far these things can get you.

>>17723300
The product of cigs is more impure than the product of vapes. If it were a matter of efficiency, choose vape!

Download Pinterest, watch kinos, look at a lot of art - be eccletic in your tastes, let you aesthetic sensibility guide you. That's the bulk of it, what you want to do is construct a visual language first, since literature owes much of its quality to its imagery (this is valid for prose and poetry). Other than that, get acquainted with actual philosophy, as in, start with the greeks, Plato in particular is a great way of reconditioning your mind on how to think - not in the modern post-social media way of BTFOing the opposition but one of actually caring about finding answers. With that mindset, you can add the second hallmark of good literature, which is depth.

>>17723621
>I stopped fantasizing about publications once I understood that I wouldn't be able to contribute something of worth at this age.
So, why not do it for fun then, anon?

>>17728235
Read Why we sleep or watch the masterclass documentary about sleep. Caffeine merely keeps you awake, that too in an artificially harmful way.

>>17728450
Great answer there, anons.

>>17728450
>Plato in particular is a great way of reconditioning your mind on how to think
Any book rec in particular?

>>17721731
booba

>>17722241
be good looking and charming
have a decent career
have enough money to give her a nice car, new clothes when she wants them, and take her on frequent vacations

just accept it's not happening

>>17723241
the way you write is annoying

>>17722695
>I don't even know where you meet girls
Try and find them out shopping.
Or, you can resurrect PUA and cold approach on the street.

>>17724523
You’re not F. Gardner.

>>17729941
Not the subject

>>17730346
Cope and buy my books. They're only .99 and free with Kindle Unlimited.

>>17728202
Ever felt your stomach churning upon reading a passage? I think he means that.

>>17731075
You just proved you’re not gardener. His books are not 99 cents.

>>17732599
I didn't say 99 cents, I said .99, do not presume to know how I price my shit. If I feel like it's worth 2.99 today, then 2.99 it is, if the next I feel like it's .99, then .99 it is.

>>17727237
https://www.openculture.com/2014/02/the-notecards-on-which-vladimir-nabokov-wrote-lolita.html

He also talks about it in pale fire how he’d basically have entire lines and shuffle around and play with them, throwing some out, re-arranging them and so forth.

>>17721731
It’s easy just, use as many buzzwords as possible

>>17721731
Just copy the style of another writer. For example: Hitherto, in descriptively treating of the Original Poster, I have chiefly dwelt upon the marvels of his falsity; or separately and in detail upon some few faggotty features. But to a large and thorough sweeping comprehension of him, it behooves me now to unbutton him still further, and untagging the points of his hose, unbuckling his garters, and casting loose the hooks and the eyes of the joints of his innermost bones, set him before you in his ultimatum; that is to say, in his diary desu.

>>17722044
what's the deal with paglia. why do people like her

this is a good thread so ill bump it

>>17721731
when i was little i hated reading
wasn't until i read the old conan stories that i understood how nice it could be
i think they did a good job being briefly and potently descriptive at a fast pace while trusting the reader to daydream most everything in-between and around what it describes
it was the first time i ever felt like a book wasn't wasting my time

>I just thought of what is the matter with policemen’s dialogue. They think every line is a punch line.
t. chandler

>>17734508
philosophical version of cool boomer mom who bought beer and a playboy subscription for her gen-x son's 11th birthday

>>17734909
having a hard time seeing how that doesn't suck

>>17723281
sneed

>>17732891
You are a good poster.

>>17721731
!!!LUST PROVOKING IMAGE!!!

STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM , NOBODY BREAKS THE LAW ON MY WATCH

>>17729941
fpbp

>>17721731
!!!LUST PROVOKING IMAGE!!!

STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM, NOBODY BREAKS THE LAW ON MY WATCH

You either have it or don’t. Style is privy to the talented. I’m a highly gifted athlete and it really boils down to, “just do that”. It’s as easy as watching someone do something, then doing it myself. Nothing frustrates me more than wannabes doing more than their strict supplementary role, or when these same people ask me how I pulled that move off. Like bro, I don’t think about it. I think about the objective, “score a fucking goal”. Form follows function. If you’re a writer, you should be honed in the same way, and on the condition required to maintain that level, be that a perpetual buzz on nicotine and alcohol or whatever it really is. That’s it. There is no process which gives you that spark. You can train to access higher level competition, but within a level you’ll always be you, and it’s obvious (validity in commentary). Be efficient, do a job, but don’t expect anyone to clap. Or be like me. Write shit only you can fully discern. Nobodies reading it anyway

>>17721731
vivid descriptions with a vast range of vocabulary

a silly looking cat = An obtusely out of place feline

>>17724141
based

>>17734992
Good post. What sport are you in?

>>17725037
bumping

>>17736353
Soccer

>>17721731
Words are just a delivery vector of meaning. Think big and it will rub off on the reader. Style is important, but it's really the quality of your ideas and imagination that make it memorable.

>>17722241
Maintaining a girl like that must be a complete nightmare, honestly not worth it. If you give her all the intimacy and attention of romantic relationship, she'll still be taking Chad cock on the side. If you give her proper dicking and make her cum her brains out, she'll still be looking for some rich guy to leech off. And even if you pay for all her shit and spoil her materially, she'll be looking to upgrade to someone richer than you.

>>17734508
She's scrappy without being obnoxious, and has a creativity that she can apply to ideas, to synthesize and study and adapt them. She'd be a fun read if she were a man, but as a woman those qualities are rare and make her truly remarkable.

>>17723621
Published writer here. Stop coping and keep trying. If a hack like me that uses obvious tropes can do it, so can you.

>>17737686
How do you figure out more micro details of what's going to happen in a story? I can make like a broad outline of an idea but then when I get to actually writing I don't know what should be written page-to-page

>>17721838
>>17723413
Fuck off niggers read me later

>>17737704
The story being engaging is so much more important than anything else. A good rule of thumb is to think of each character as whole people. If you see it that way you won't have too many "plot device" characters that serve a small purpose and nothing else. Don't gender your dialogue, it will always look pathetic and tropey.
I don't really iron out a story before I start telling it, I kind of work it out as I go, the other method doesn't really work for me. Aristotle was of the opinion that the closer a story resembles reality, the better. You can write a story where the main character is a jug of water but if it doesn't have something human about it, nobody's going to give a shit. And if the story is about the jug of water's sense of ennui, and how it has this mortal fear of the water turning into ice and mutilating it through freeze-thaw, most people aren't going to care about that either. That can be one of those details that make people engage with the story, but something has to happen, and it has to be like a car crash in the sense that it's hard to look away and it grabs the reader. If you manage to do that, you'll always write a story that at least some people engage with.

>>17737791
I would read the story of a jug of water being carried by entertaining characters. Where does the jug of water comes from and why is it afraid of water turning to ice?!

Niggers

>>17721731
What are some examples of effort posts you enjoyed?
I'm complimented for my prose on /lit/, and its really very simple. My secret? I vary my sentence lengths as long-short-long-short. The idea? To maintain a musicality in the overall paragraph.
Let me tell you how I learned this. I stopped reading books and started listening to audiobooks while working as a janitor one winter. The ability to read something out loud and have it sound decent is what makes an author more than mediocre.
Another clever trick? Using a thesaurus.

>>17722202
lol what aboute Comte de Lautremont and Arthur Rimbaud?? insane to think you shouldn't write until you're 40..

>>17737806
A small tv repair shop on the dangerous side of town. One of the guys who worked there was obsessed with hydrating himself, and the other had an affinity for microdosing on printer toner. They settled on a glass jug to compromise between the hydration of one and the tripping experience of the other. Eventually the dichotomy gave the jug sentience.

>>17738661
Have you ever considered recording yourself talking like this and then listening to it while you masturbate?

>>17721731
Write like you are just saying it to a friend. But not just a friend. A friend you invited to witness your suicide. Whatever you are writing is not just a comment you are making on a hungarian music box repair forum, this is the last word of Socrates as he drank the hemlock. When spoken with that spirit, you have nothing to gain by lying, your reader doesn't need to doubt your intentions. You would rather die than have to repeat yourself. Mean what you say, and say only what you mean. Forget about everything else, syntax, fancy words, the grammer handbook, there is no time. The poison is strong. Time is short. Don't waste life, not yours or anyone's. "Thus spoke" should be a fitting note add d to the end of everything you say, or else why the fuck would you bother?

>>17722288
>>17730020
I have money and a career that gives me social standing. How do I go about getting one of these girls?

>>17740071
wanting to draw your attention to >>17724067

>>17721731
Ask yourself what the purpose of a sentence is, as in what it tells the reader. Will help condense it.

>>17721731
>How to write in a way so that each sentence strikes like a lighting bolt to the reader?
Easy, just be the next reincarnation of Friedrich Nietzsche.