/lit/ - Literature

duhkha means suffering

>>17655529
Didn't you have enough with the previous 10 threads of the topic?
Stop this shit and discuss actual literature please.

>>17655529
These threads never lead anywhere and this one will be a clusterfuck of shitflinging as always.
It's a matter of perspective. I looked into Buddhism for a long time then rejected it entirely because I think their worldview is retarded. Other people will disagree. Just read and decide for yourself.

>>17655529
Do you hate existing because suffering is (as far as you can tell, at least) a constant in existence? Be a Buddhist
Do you think suffering is not worth obsessing over to that extent? Buddhism is not for you

>>17655529 (OP)#
The core of buddhism is:
>what is conditioned is suffering, what is suffering is not self, what is not self is abandoned.

If you get triggered by this, stick to your yoga class for soccer moms and instawhores.

>>17655529
>lead people astray
Most if not all religions lead people astray from actually fucking living
Buddhism is worse than most in that regard, and if Buddhism is right there's nothing to do anyway, so stop obsessing over pointless shit and live your life

>>17655577
>>what is conditioned is suffering
>>what is suffering is not self
Both of those are to be taken as axiomatic, neither are actually absolute truths. It all comes down to whether these statements are things you find yourself agreeing with, or if you think they're untrue. As all religions, some degree of faith is required

Buddhism is interesting although Nagarjuna's influence wasn't for the better.
Ultimately though authentic religion is not a choice, you have to go with the ways of your ancient ancestors.

>>17655719
Wrong. Your ancestors converted at some point.
With that mindset something like Zen would have never developed in China, or the Nara schools in Japan.

>>17655740
Exactly. China, Japan and everywhere else should keep their native religions.

>>17655761
Wrong again.
If you go back far enough then there are no native religions at all.

>>17655761
Which one is the way of my ancestors? The original European tribal deities? I don't even know their names. Or the gods worshiped by indo-europeans? The gods they worshiped here are also gone (their known names are basically names of christian saints), and adopting Greek or Norse ones would be larping since they're not my ancestors. Or Christian religion? That comes from Judaic roots, and was developed in Greco-Roman world, which neither are from my roots.

>>17655772
>The gods they worshiped here are also gone (their known names are basically names of christian saints)
interesting, could you tell me more?

Death cult is a meme-tier term that has no meaning

>>17655529

>"Lastly, the Buddhistic assumption that the extinction of that consciousness is the highest end of human life, is untenable, for there is no recipient of results. For a person who has got a thorn stuck into him, the relief of the pain caused by it is the result (he seeks); but if he dies, we do not find any recipient of the resulting cessation of pain. Similarly I if consciousness is altogether extinct and there is nobody to reap that benefit, to talk of it as the highest end of human life is meaningless. If that very entity or self, designated by the word 'person' -Consciousness, according to you-whose well-being is meant, is extinct, for whose sake will the highest end be? But those who believe in a self different from consciousness and witnessing many objects, will find it easy to explain all phenomena such as the remembrance of things previously seen and the contact and cessation of pain-the impurity, for instance, being ascribed to contact with extraneous things, and the purification to dissociation from them."

Sri Śaṅkarācārya - Bṛhadāraṇyakopaniṣadbhāṣya 4.3.7.

>>17656712
>"a highly manipulative group which exploits and sometimes physically and/or psychologically damages members and recruits."
Yep, the shoe fits

>>17656789
It's amazing how the poo
Sri Śaṅkarācārya got filtered by buddhism.

>>17656840
Honestly I'm glad I got filtered by buddhism when I see what the average western buddhist looks like kek

>>17656789

>Using logic to debunk mysticism

Why is this man revered as a genius again?

>>17655529

Buddhism is endgame stuff
It's where you turn when you have nowhere left to turn
It slowly becomes the only thing that makes sense

>>17656712
Any religion that would have you accept death as an inevitability is not okay by my book. While the source of suffering is desire, sure, that doesn't mean you should cease to improve your own situation.

>>17656859
>my experience is immune to logic
Sure, whatever, but don't expect people to believe you then.

>>17656866
>It slowly becomes the only thing that makes sense
I can attest to this being untrue in my case, where I became interested in it, then dropped it because I disagreed with the claims it made. It makes sense if you believe in it in the first place, as >>17655587 said.

>>17656869
I agree, one of Siddhartha's claim was that eternalism was wrong, but I think that's untrue.

>>17656575
There's nothing much to it, with Christianity people just replaced names of pagan deities with names of saints, and Christian stories fused with pagan myths. Now the names of the pagan gods are not their original names, they're names of saints that went through the game telephone, and because people these days know the names of Christian saints like they were originally written and pronounced they sound different. So now neopagans basically make prayers to christian saints, but then again those prayers were originally directed towards pagan gods that had names changed with Christianization.

>>17656869
>that doesn't mean you should cease to improve your own situation.
You can only improve it materially, which is what secular humanists are stuck on in their democracy. And the public servants don't even have the funds to make everybody live in a materialist paradise.

>>17655587>>17656888

>>Both of those are to be taken as axiomatic
No that's completely retarded. And like any atheist who fucking loves science, you have not studied logic and yet use this vocabulary.

>>17657129
I'm not an atheist but yes, Buddhism makes unverifiable truth statements, like every other religion, some things about it you need to take on faith. I'm sorry this makes you seethe but it is what it is.

Since /lit/ doesn't actually read, the consensus here on Buddhism is a game of telephone about whether something is life denying or cringe or appropriate to the "western" person.

>>17657140
Buddhism is not a science and there are no axioms in it. That's a fact. If you deny that you just arguing against a delusion of your own making.

>>17657698
>Buddhism is not a science
Indeed, it's a religion, with statements to be taken on faith.

Life isn't even fun or interesting imo so I agree with buddhism even if it is a "death cult"

>>17657712
>Life isn't even fun or interesting
This is a (you) problem, friend

>>17657716
Yes, that's why I said "I" agree with buddhism you retard

You not liking it is also a (you) problem

>>17657729
Why are you mad? I was simply implying that liking buddhism because your life is shit doesn't really give credence to buddhism and that you should try fixing your life instead

Literally the exact same thing as every other religion. If you enjoyed the others then you will enjoy this one but to think you need it is laughable

>>17657742
I don't like life as a thing, not just my own life, so there is nothing to fix but life itself which is impossible because I don't have godly powers

Also some lives cannot be "fixed" only coped with

>>17655529
Labeling subjects as memes reveals your ignorance. Not everything is a spongebob image, zoomer. Instead of posting this garbage, read some essential buddhist texts, or commentaries on buddhism. Everyone will benefit from you doing so.

>>17657745
This, I don't understand why so many people on /lit/ fetishize buddhism when it's really not that special

>>17657767
Then buddhism is perfect for you I suppose.

>>17657786
Yes, because the entire point of buddhism is for dealing with life's suffering, if you don't have any suffering to deal with then it's not for you. The entire reason it was thought up was because Buddha saw people starving and dying in the streets, he wanted to find a universal fix for this and all suffering.

>>17657793
It's not the only way to deal with suffering but sure, you're not wrong. I have suffering but I don't like buddhism and feel no need for it.

>>17657778
>>17657745

>>17657908
>based on peace and kindness

So is Christianity they just fail to follow that part most of the time though

>>17655587
>Both of those are to be taken as axiomatic
No, they need to be experienced directly, not in the afterlife. I found no counterarguments to both in my practice either.

>>17655529
Meme death cult as is basically all spiritual endeavors.

Nothing wrong with spiritual endeavors, but almost everyone puts way too much emphasis on it. Acting as if being "awakened" or "enlightened" is more noble or important than not being so.

It's a load of shit. If you get that experience, awesome. If not? So what?

Focus on truth above all else and your enlightenment will come naturally.

There is no such thing as "no-self". We are biologically hardwired to have a "self", even if it's an illusion. Even if it's an illusion and you recognize that. Does that change it from appearing? No.

Again. Truth above all else.

>>17658535
>they need to be experienced directly
Do you understand why this is not convincing?

>>17656840
he thoroughly refuted Buddhism

>>17658612
Don't start you're gonna trigger them

>>17658535
>you don't have to take my claims at face value, you just need to meditate until you manage to convince yourself they're true

>>17655529
There are a lot of things you can learn from eastern philosophy so long as you divorce it from eastern practitioners. Asia is full of monks and priests who use eastern mysticism to perform their grift

>>17656869
>While the source of suffering is desire, sure, that doesn't mean you should cease to improve your own situation.

I get the feeling that you don't understand what is meant by desire when Buddha mentions it. They're overcoming the desire that causes cycles of suffering -- like when someone buys something to fill a want, experiences temporary elation, then repeats buying to consistently fill that want; or pursuing sex for sex sake; etc. etc.

They are, in essence, trying to improve their situation by getting over that desire, as well as having people realize that sickness, suffering, aging, and death are inevitable experiences and must be accepted.

>>17658742
>when someone buys something to fill a want, experiences temporary elation, then repeats buying to consistently fill that want
That's just not being a hedonist and you don't need buddhism and the jhanas and other ascetic practices for that.

>>17658760
you cant stop craving for sensuality without the jhanas

>>17658556
>There is no such thing as "no-self". We are biologically hardwired to have a "self", even if it's an illusion. Even if it's an illusion and you recognize that. Does that change it from appearing? No.
Sorry, buddhism is not materialist, dwt and go back to parroting academia.

>>17659375
Only in Buddhism, but not in other doctrines and religions which have their own methods for doing so

>>17655529
Both. I've gotta join this fucking religion fuck Burgerlife. But I have no idea where to start

>>17655578
>Living
>2021
>Neoliberal hellscape

i zigzag betwen the two opinions every couple of years. currently hovering around meme death cult. meditation is real though

bump

>>17659375
I don't want to stop craving since my goal isn't to kill my soul. However I manage to not be too attached to worldly things just fine

>>17660314
Whiny faggot

>>17659440
Buddhism operates under the assumption that desire is bad and suffering is to be eliminated at all costs anyway, if you don't accept these things Buddhism has no reason to be
>>17660331
>meditation is real
What do you mean? Meditation isn't a Buddhist invention

>>17661983
>>Buddhism operates under the assumption
it's a conclusion, not an assumption

>>17662683
No, it is an assumption. Either way, it's not an absolute truth, it's something it tells you and you choose to believe it

>>17656789

Buddhism threads are so depressing. You people really need to go outside, I'm not kidding.

>>17655529
Everything worthwhile is a cult