/lit/ - Literature

Does anyone want to talk about notes from the underground with me?

>>17596058
Definitely. Where you want to start?
If it hadn't been for the underground man
I'd been married a long time ago.

>>17596312
Where did you come from?
Where did you go?
Where did you come from?
Underground Joe?

>>17596614
Do they have fiddles in russia?

>>17595988
What was his problem?

>>17595988

Reading the passage makes me want to read Notes from Underground again. The book always reminds me of a protagonist you do not want to become. Such an amazing piece of work.

>>17596312
Do you think he is right when he calls people cowards for not confronting the banality of their lives? How they are just being played like piano keys by fate? When did we stop being begotten by living father's?

The world is becoming more and more underground, and so I think notes is relevant as anything right now.
Everyone is isolated and more prone to a lot of the things underground man goes through.
Since COVID i've been more extreme in self-destruction, for example I've noticed that my bitterness towards everyone around me has increased. And i also eat like shit and sleep at 7am now.
Pretty confident this isn't just me, but I could be wrong.

>>17597771
Hopefully we dont develop a taste for it. There might be no way to come back once you go far enough underground.

I am unironically the Underground Man IRL AMA

>>17597771
The fact the book was published in 1864 is genuinely astonishing. It's about 100 years ahead of its time.

>>17598781
I bet you even farther underground than he was. He had sex, as and his own apartment with a servant. He even had a job for awhile.

>>17598984
I've had sex and had 2 jobs in the past. Don't have my own place though

>>17596666
It is worth becoming such a protagonist only because while he is a failure in every sense of word, he is also strong enough to choose the exalted suffering.

>>17598781
Do you hate women?

>>17596312
keep telling yourself that

>>17599282
Yeah it's surprising he never even mentions the idea of suicide.

>>17599879
Absolutely because Dostoevsky was a devoted Christian and all the suffering the protagonist is getting is because of Christ, even if he doesn't understand it.

>>17599862
Yes, entirely. My ex gf tried to get in touch with me, and I'm still kind of in love with her. I verbally abused her until she blocked me. I'm not even making this up

>>17595988
>>17596058
>>17596312
>>17596666
>>17596695
>>17597771
>>17598777
>>17598781
>>17598817
>>17598984
>>17599007
>>17599282
>>17599879
>>17599891
Especially in comparison to English literature - hell, even in comparison to just American literature - Russian literature sucks.

It's extremely limited not only in scope (only at most a dozen interesting literary figures out of 200+ million people, in a period spanning just ~40 years out of 1000+ years of the history of Slavic people) but in thematic diversity as well - it's almost all "muh hardships in life and how i'm using spirituality/metaphysics/transcendence to overcome them." That's it.

There's no decent Russian realist book (with a different theme to the one mentioned above, at least). No decent sci-fi book (besides Roadside Picnic, maybe). No decent gothic book. No decent horror book. No decent modernist book. No decent post-modernist book. No decent.. well, almost anything really.

Russian literature is as barren and uninteresting as Russia's geographic, social and political landscape. It's sad to think that some people confine themselves completely within this culture's literature. Their brain must undergo extreme shrinkage as a result.

Hell, America alone has:
1. Herman Melville
2. Walt Whitman
3. William Faulkner
4. Edgar Allan Poe
5. Ralph Waldo Emerson
6. Philip K. Dick
7. Thomas Pynchon
8. William Gaddis
9. Cormac McCarthy
10. DFW
11. Kurt Vonnegut
12. Nathaniel Hawthorne
13. Henry David Thoreau
14. John Steinbeck
15. Ursula Le Guin
16. Ezra Pound
17. Frank Herbert
18. Ernest Hemingway
19. F. Scott Fitzgerald
20. Truman Capote
21. Mark Twain
22. Don DeLillo
23. Philip Roth
24. Allen Ginsberg
25. William Burroughs
26. Jack Kerouac
27. H.P. Lovecraft
28. Charles Bukowski
29. Hunter Thompson
30. William Gibson
And that's just America. Look how much diversity one nation of 200-300+ million people achieved in barely 200 years. Meanwhile Russia has been around for 1000 years, with a similar population, and there's none of that. Zero creativity. An entirely creatively bankrupt nation.

And I didn't even mention any British writers yet. Britain is a hefty opponent for America in terms of literary output, especially when it comes to classical literature. And that's an island nation of just ~50 million people - over 4 times fewer. I forgot to mention that of course both British and American literature use the same language, so in any meaningful comparisons langVSlang BOTH nations' outputs should be added to one tally - but that's just an unfair wreckage to any other literature in the world.

>>17599989
She actually blocked/unblocked me 3 separate times trying to make up, and I verbally abused her until she blocked me every time. I still think about her every day and it's been about a year

>>17600000
ruskis btfo

>>17599989
>>17600017
undergroundbro confirmed

There's something about hating the world and hating women that feels identical to me. It's the thing that keeps a guy underground.

I'd wager if you can somehow reconnect with her you'd also stop being underground. If that's what you wanted. shit's hard though

>>17600195
she was a whore I'd rather stay away desu
not sure if being underground is better or not

>>17600195
>>17600213
I agree with what you mean about hating women and hating the world. I'd imagine there are other things that keep you underground, but that might be the root of it. Seeing women's flaws really makes me want to stay away from them desu

>>17600000
baste

>>17600000
>these digits

>>17600213
The actual undergroundman was almost saved by a literal whore. She was a good girl and idk your situation obv

we all just need a good girl in our lives desu

>>17600213
imagine reading a novel, relating to the author, relating to the protagonist, and then discarding the entire conclusion

>>17600291
She's a great girl, and it almost seemed like our fates were intertwined at the time. We had so much random shit in common, even the same birthday. I was really motivated when I was dating her. But she had sex with a lot of guys before we met so I dumped her. I miss her every day but I'd break up with her every single time if I went back

>>17600321
I pick apart people's flaws too much to want to be around them, I was born to be underground

>>17596666
Holy moly checked

>>17600342
wait till you see >>17600000

>>17595988
Was the protagonist meant to be a great thinker? In the book it didn't seem so, though he had some original thoughts (all preceded through his bitterness and denial), but reading this alone actually sounds like something much more acute.

>>17600402
I wouldn’t say great thinker. He was just a mentally Ill man who saw things for the way they are imo

>>17600000
I'd trade any of the major Dosto works for all American literature. But at least you don't pretend to understand, Burger.

>>17600431
Dostoevsky is the only writer who’s books I can’t put down

>>17600431
Dostoyevsky's writing style is very barebones and his books in general have nothing interesting stylistically goin on in the structure or the prose. So the only thing that is left to have at least some value is "the message." Sadly, the message is on the level of writings of Jordan Peterson, and honestly - it's understandable now why JBP's target audience are the same people who would read Dostoyevsky - it's essentially the same level of literature, both stylistically and intellectually.

Keep on copin'!

>>17600483
you're a faggot

>>17600323
so being a virgin is a dealbreaker

>>17600617
I don't need a virgin, just someone who doesn't give themselves away for free. Knowing that I'm paying full price for something other guys got to use for free is worse than being alone. Hell, if she was a literal prostitute maybe I'd reconsider. At least a whore values her body enough to get paid, she's just a slut

>>17600483
Now tell me about these parallels with Peterson and Dostoevsky?

Also, ignoring the fact that Dostoevsky wrote back then when he actually did and that Peterson can only be influenced by him, which is no way a proof that Dostoevsky is somehow unoriginal. As with Dosto, you probably never felt the thirst for Christ, or the feeling of the great crisis Dostoevsky was hinting at (along with Nietzsche), since you're obviously a product of it, therefore your lack of understanding and appreciation can be understood. It is along the lines of someone akin to the Last man to talk about writing style and similar things when you're talking about thinkers of the magnitude of Dostoevsky. Also, how do you judge the style, do you speak Russian?

>>17600483
Quality bait, at least 7/10

>>17598984
It's hard to relate to a "loser" noncel character. This is why I read Houellebecq.

>>17600000
Quints of truth

>>17600483
>understandable now why JBP's target audience are the same people who would read Dostoyevsky
It's hilarious to me that for a sizable number of npcs the reputation of a writer who has been world-renowned for 150 years can be thrown in the gutter because a guy who wrote self-help books likes him. Couldn't ask for a clearer example of taste as consumer identity

>>17600831
It's not about the guy who wrote these who likes him. It's about the shared interests of the target audience of Dostoyevsky BESIDES Dostoyevsky, that is telling. They most usually both like both JBP and Dostoyevsky. And before JBP was born?

Well - who says the target audience was anything different? They were still the same adolescent-minded dimwits, except just without JBP.

>>17600773
>thinkers of the magnitude of Dostoevsky
You're hilarious. Dostoyevsky's "revelations" are equivalent to ramblings of an angsty teenager in search of meaning.

>>17600864
The 'target audience' of Dostoevsky includes people like James Joyce and Franz Kafka

>>17600873
Who do you consider great thinkers among people that mostly wrote novels?

>>17600881
>Who do you consider great thinkers among people that mostly wrote novels?
No one, really.

>>17600873
Zero historical sense. The Brothers Karamazov was published in 1880. Nietzsche published Zarathustra between 1883-85. His ramblings that are akin to the search of meaning of a teenager in 2021 (this statement isn't true either, it's just that people feel the crisis of nihilism that Dostoevsky and Nietzsche hinted at back then clearer now). So you're basically calling somebody an angsty teenager that predicted the Zeitgeist and intellectual problems more than a century than they were actually fully ripe.

>>17600905
Well, since you're obviously not able to see genius even if it hit you in the face, how do you feel competent to judge someone with a legacy such as Dosto?

>>17599875
Lmao ignorant cope alert

>>17600927
You're so ignorant that it hurts. Read about the nihilist subculture in mid-19th century Russia. Dosto was a product of that, not a creator, and in fact there's nothing surprising about being nihilistic in such a hellhole.
>>17600944
No, I just think that literature to philosophy is what video games are to literature. You're the equivalent of someone calling Nick Druckmann a genius

>>17600961
Dostoevsky was reacting to the nihilists, Notes is basically mocking them

>>17600961
Imagine thinking Dostoevsky was a nihilist, you probably think Nietzsche was one too, right?

You must be smarter than most philosophers then, because I clearly remember that people like Nietzsche appreciated a lot of /lit/, Stendhal, the French moralists, Prosper Merimee, Laurence Sterne. Spengler claims that Goethe was one of his major influences. You seem to argue that there can be no geniuses outside of what you consider philosophy?

>>17600976
>tfw your favorite author was mocking you

>>17600948
nice argument

>>17601168
Google is your friend, you normie trash

>>17600976
>>17600999
>Dosto actually WASNT a nihilist!
nice, you probably thought you scored a "gotcha!" against me the moment you typed that out, but in reality yes, Dosto WAS a nihilist.

a coping one.

>>17601185
>absurd statement
>that's not supported by evidence
>another absurd statement
>that's also not supported by evidence
>third absurd statement
>that's mostly unsupported by evidence, do you have any evidence
>"just Google LOL"

>>17600999
>Nietzsche appreciated a lot of /lit/, Stendhal, the French moralists, Prosper Merimee, Laurence Sterne. Spengler claims that Goethe was one of his major influences
they all appreciated these works as art that moved their souls. not philosophical brainy shit. yes, /lit/ can obviously perform the former, but not the latter.

>>17601208
He was a Christian who understood that nihilism was a serious problem. Do you think Nietzsche was a nihilist too because he analyzed it?

>>17601210
>doesn't get the joke
>doesn't know who or what he's responding to
>doesnt care to trace the responses
>gets angry when the joke isn't obvious
So sad faggoty 4chan fucker felates me moment

>>17601224
>Nietzsche didn't think the French moralists were philosophers
Okay

>>17601226
>He was a Christian who understood that nihilism was a serious problem.
He was a Christian as a cope. No truly happy, content and secure Christian would write such books. Unless you're a psychopath, your books are the expression of your true soul at its most intimate

>>17601268
I'm the guy you've been replying to this whole time. There's no joke, you're just gay

>>17601292
>being a Christian means you're happy, content and secure 24/7
Have you learnt nothing from history?

>>17601292
Yeah there have definitely never been any Christians who had doubts and wrote about their confusion and sin. Nobody like idk...St Augustine

>>17601366
>There's no joke, you're just gay
Faggot accusation cope, its simple as copy paste + h
My nigga your just embarrassing yourself.

Friends, I am wondering what your thoughts are on the connection between the Underground Man and the modern incel-archetype? Like Dosto, I want to believe that both are the result of Godless men, and a Godless society at large (a Nietzschean theme).

>>17601378
>>17601383
Not to this extent. Trust me, I'm like Dostoyevsky, or at least I was. Extremely depressed and searching for faith as a cope.

I wish I was truly a christian. A true believer. Not a coper-believer. a true believer. I believe i'd be happy

>>17602709
Lmao nihilism from godless society is the result of overreligious society

>>17602816
>I'm like Dostoevsky
no you're just some retard thirsty for (you)s
fuck off

When I recall the most idiotic and uninformed things I've seen on /lit/ a good amount of them comes from the dislikers of Dostoevsky. Why is that? >>17601292 posted some of the most embarrassing things I've read on /lit/ in a long time.

>>17602709
There is no connection except that incels like to think everything they consume is directly related to their own problems

I've read this book 10+ times. Ask me anything about it, literally anything.

>>17602816
If you not a true believer then what are you doing? Peter won't let you into heaven if you don't accept jesus as your lord and savior. You can't pretend. Unless you mean cope believer in the sense you are deliberately using cognitive dissonance to escape nihilism?

>>17602857
What's that YouTube link I can't copy it on my phone

>>17603126
It's left leaning retards who shit on one of the most influential and beloved writers of all time simply because he was a Christian and they feel personally attacked when he highlights the faults of the rebellious, childish and godless youth of his time

>>17603148
Sum it up in three sentences

>>17603216
>https://youtu.be/Ofn2A1p13Sg

>>17603429
If u play it at double speed it sounds like zach hill

>>17596666
He reminds me of myself

>>17601398
>I'm not upset
>I'll use racial and sexual epithets to show how little this matters to me!

>>17603673
Grow up faeggot

>>17601292
(1/ 8)
“If someone was to prove to me that Christ was outside of Truth, I would choose to stay with Christ rather than the truth”. This is a sentiment that Dostoevsky has uttered from the beginning of his writing life until the end. It appears in The Devils when Shatov and Stravrogin meet late at night. This phrase has often been used by secularists as evidence that Dostoevsky’s Christian conviction was in conflict with the hellish world around him. That professions of faith could only be used in stubborn self-assertion, a testament to one’s will in contrast to the rational, evidence-based thinkers, in a similar line to Albert Camus’ “leap of faith” to escape the “Absurd”. However, this is a superficial reading of the phrase. Some context is required.

>>17595988
He was right about Jesuits.
And Bolsheviks.
And post modernism.

>>17603968
The Decemberists
After winning the Napoleonic wars, (cue Tchaikovsky’s 1812 overture), Alexander I seemingly had united Russia after tumultuous centuries of revolt and ethnic clashes. However, a seed had been planted within the military class of Russia, having experience the wealth and freedoms in France which stemmed from liberal philosophies. From Catherine the Great to the last Tsar Nicholas II, all would have to wrestle with the admiration of the French revolution in contrast the fears of how it could destroy the order of Russian society. The first major event of this revolt against the Tsar came in 1825. Alexander had just died, and in the confusion who the next Tsar would be, 3000 soldiers would gather in Senate square, having built up a covert network of liberal-minded military groups, demanding a constitutional monarchy and the abolition of serfdom. Nicholas I would use artillery to end the standoff and crush the revolt. However, it was a symbolic victory, and began a century of violence and rebellion in Russia.

>>17598817
Wait until you read Demons aka 20th century retold in advance.

>>17603974
(3/8)
A major rift would emerge between those who wished to turn to western-style values, against those who wanted to maintain the collectivist peasent mirs and the dominance of Russian Orthodoxy (Slavophiles). The Slavophiles regarded the widening schism between the aristocracy and peasantry to be caused by the increasing presence of liberals and the Nihilist movement. A book which is often promoted here is Fathers and Sons by Turgenev. It writes about the conflict between the more liberal minded fathers who still have elements of deference to religion and tradition compared to the atheistic and cynical sons, who represent the nihilists. The fathers believe in incremental change, the sons in violent upheaval. This culminates in an actual duel taking place. These two groups were in direct conflict with the Slavophiles (Dostoevsky was one), who believed that Russia Orthodoxy extended beyond mere tradition, and that it was the necessary spiritual binding which unites Russia against those who would wish to invade it, as well as fulfilling the “Holy Rus”, the nationalist ideal that Russia was ordained by God to save the world. In Devils, Dostoevsky writes “The more powerful a nation, the more individual its God”.

>>17601292
Just because Dostoevsky could go to great depths of anguish does not mean he succumbed to it. I'm mostly thinking about his female characters these days; he's obsessed with virtue and corruption to the point of unbearable pressure which folds everything around it.

>>17603980
(4/8)
Dostoevsky- A critique of Utilitarianism
So how does this all relate to Dostoevsky’s work? Dostoevsky writing is purposefully restraint of Orthodox imagery or promotion compared to his counterparts. His intention was not to argue his perspective through his own faith, but to imagine and create a world devoid of it, and to demonstrate what he saw as its conclusions. Notes from Underground was his first notable works and follows a wretched and repugnant character, an early 4channer who is unwilling or mentally unable to follow social norms and order, knowingly acting against his self-interest. He despises the “Crystal Palace” of rationality and that if all human experience can be reduced to 2+2=4 then there is “nothing left to do, much less to learn.” He argues that human beings have essential irrational emotions that must be expressed or fulfilled, and to try and reduce the human experience to mere rational acts would require great emotional turmoil or even physical violence. That it must be a freedom for an individual to act irrationally. We may drink too much or overeat which are more trivial, but we may also sacrifice for our families, our towns and nations. All these acts may be irrational, but they are also human. However, this does not mean that Dostoevsky is arguing that everyone should merely act upon their will, just that rationality may come into conflict with human nature itself. That the “truth” of the world may come into conflict with a deeper spiritual essence, imagined as “Christ”. This idea is expanded upon in later works.

>>17601005
>>17600976

Well he's not really mocking them, if anything he's mocking useful idiots and general literary scene of the day - Turgenev and co.

He's absolutely terrified of Nihilism, and in the last 300 pages he really turns on the heat and just won't let go until you see the world burn and want it to stop but no, he's still fueling the flames. I was profoundly disturbed by the book ever since I read the page where he basically describes postmodernism.

>>17603988
(5/8)
Crime and Punishment follows a student by Raskolnikov who argues through murdering a miser woman, he could distribute her wealth and do far more good, negating the evil act he commits. However the crime does not go well, and he ends up killing two people, and forgetting the majority of the money that he intended to steal. It is later revealed that his true intention was not to steal the money (it was only part of the justification), but to fulfil the philosophical desire to be one of the few men who could rise above society, to go against the grain. That he had the intellectual capacity to move beyond basic human empathy, and become a man who create his own morality (this is what is similar to Nietzsche, and his Übermensch) . However he fails. His mind is racked with guilt and becomes crazy, with fever dreams and bouts of madness. He is unable to move beyond deotological morality, and only finds comfort in confession and penance. His utilitarinism and seculirism deluded him in to believing he could reject his “irrational” humanity, and is forced to reconcile with those basic desires of compassion and love.

Considering Dostoevsky seems to have been a serial cheater, there isn't too much of that in his work.

>>17603999
6/8)
The Devils. Dostoevsky’s strongest rebuttal to the increasing violent and radical socialist movements in his nation. Based on terrorist Sergie Nechaev, it follows a radical socialist group as they plan to commit the perfect murder against a member that they wrongly believe will betray them. It is a story full of despair. Stravogin, one of the revolutionaries, is a man who no longer “believed in good or evil, just prejudice” and commited vile acts throughout his life. He hangs himself, racked with guilt. Krillov who is used as the fall man for the murder in an engineer obsessed with suicide, that to claim control over one’s mortality, is to gain the power of God himself. And poor Shatov is able to reconcile himself with life after his son’s birth, finding God in the “irrational” and beautiful love for his son (its probably Stravogin’s but oh well) is soon after killed by his fellow socialists. The most haunting part of the book is the meeting of the group, with the intellectual Shigalev propose to enslave 9/10ths of man to free the few deserving. It would seem overreaching and reactionary if not for the events that would occur. About a decade later Tsar Alexander II would be murdered, and half a century later, Stalin’s reign of terror would fall upon Russia.

>>17600000
Yeah I thought so too, that America had some great stylists but... Dostoevsky alone trumps most of American literature put together, and he also dismantled Victorian novel, killing it before it knew it was dead - it's just an amazing feat that has been unrivalled before or since. No wonder Bakhtin singled out his polyphonic qualities.

>>17604008
(7/8)
So what solution does Dostoevsky offer us, faced with the turmoil and despair of the world, when confronted by the “Truth”? It is notable that the characters who find inner peace, do so when moved or influence by a force outside their will, love. The solution is not a blind deference to the church, but one must suffer a much greater burden. To attempt to integrate and live out the teachings of Christ. Dostoevsky considers this in his most famous chapter “the Inquisitor” . The Inquisitor is a powerful priest who believes that God asks too much of man, and that if man is left with free will with the moral duty to act in the image of Christ, he will surely fail. That the responsibility is too great, and that all people secretly only wish to have the illusion of freedom. Therefore, he perform great inquisitions and stake burnings to create a despotic rule, dominating his followers will through fear, but allowing them to follow the teachings of God which they would surely fail by themselves. This is his burden, the Inquisitor argues to Christ who has descended to Earth, and that he must bear the “Truth”. “Only we, we, who preserve the mystery, only we shall be unhappy”. The “Truth” requires a consistent lying about the human condition. And how does Christ respond? By kissing the Inquisitor on the lips. It may be seen as forgiveness by Christ, or a refutation of him by a small act of compassion, just as Alyosha kisses Ivan. Priest Zosima would later appear to Alyosha and speak of these little “acts” such as a woman giving an onion. No one has a better claim to heaven then anyone else, as all acts are relative, which alludes to the window woman donating a single coin. Mark 12:41-44. It is in these small acts of “irrationality”, that seem petty and trivial to the utilitarian, does the “Truth” seem more bearable.

>>17604020
(8/8)
I don’t do his arguments justice, for the complexity and intricacies of his works are still beyond me. But he is a beloved writer for a reason. I remember reading the death of Illuysha and weeping, having recently lost my own father. Do I curse God, and demand for my free will to be stripped, so I may never experience such anguish? Do I succumb to nihilism, treating pain with the excesses of pleasure? I won’t pretend I found God, but Dostoevsky did make me question a blinding adherence to rationality. Maybe I can only act as Alyosha does, promising to bear the pain through remembering my father, and seeking healing through small act of “irrationality”, love.

TLDR: You’re a fucking retard >>17601292

>>17599989
>>17600017
>>17600687
>>17600323
What the fuck anon I had almost the exact same experience. This is creeping me out. How did you find out about her sexual history?Did you find a new gf after breaking up with her?

>>17603999
Based trips of truth. You hit the nail on the head. People often completely miss the point of C&P on this site.

>>17603988
>His intention was not to argue his perspective through his own faith, but to imagine and create a world devoid of it, and to demonstrate what he saw as its conclusions.
So he cloaks his anti-utilitarianism in utilitarianism. This is why I despise Dosto. It's this heavy undertone of "you're learning a lesson right now" in his books that pisses me off. He also continues the Christian tradition of criticizing secularism from the shadows never putting forth the ideas of Christianity, because he knows they will crumble whenever you shed light on them. Criticism for me, but not for thee, pagan.

>>17604862
shh child

>>17596312
bra, I don't want to shit on your choices, but I really don't think that that was Dosto's message in the book. For one thing he wrote it while grieving for his wife in the week after she died. The inability to love is presented as a death sentence in ALL of Dostoevsky's work.

>>17600000
Ever since I heard Harold Bloom talk about how we don't know any literature until we have memorised entire passages and chapters, I realised that the scope of an average reader's mind is in general less than the scope of great authors and it behooves us to find a groove and stick in it. Your eclectic reading habits may not be the badge of honour you suppose, and you are unfairly criticising the Russians for not writing in genres that the Russian context had no connection to. Besides, LITERATE Russia was actually a fairly small country, population-wise.

>>17600195
100% agree with this

>>17600335
I thought that about myself too. Turns out it was all just life ruining long term habits that took much patience and many failed attempts to turn around. It sucks to find out that your brain is just a poorly trained puppy, but happiness really is on the other side of that transformation.

People, women among them, are not all good, but they are worthwhile. It takes long, patient effort though.

Proust said "Leave the beautiful women to men with no imagination."

>>17604043
>How did you find out about her sexual history?
She told me. We had so much in common and 100% loved each other so much that she wasn’t worried about being judged for her past. I saw a couple girls but haven’t really dated since, I still love her desu. Would never get back with her though and would break up with her again

>>17600831
sadly i've encountered this in my own life

>>17605880
Ive been debating whether or not to fix myself. Doesn’t seem worth the effort if I’m being honest

>>17605880
>"Leave the beautiful women to men with no imagination."
Holy cope.

>>17605891
Imaginationlet confirmed

>>17600961
lol mid-19th century Russian nihilism had nothing to do with existential crisis, it was an offshoot of European scepticism. You are shooting from the hip.

>>17605890
why doesn't it seem worth it?

>>17595988
>bro just conform lol
>just stop thinking bro
>this is how you act if you think like this
yeah great book

>>17605973
>la homme de la nature et de la verite

>>17605947
I don’t know, what’s the point? Seeing how much effort I need to put in to get what I want vs others makes me not want to try. I have improved in the past and made friends, gotten girls had “fun” and all that stuff, but realized it’s not worth the effort, at least for me. So I went underground again. Most normal people just do these things without thinking, I need to literally stop using my brain to want to do these things. I know That’s probably the best thing to do, but I’d rather be alone than change my personality/stop thinking to fit in

>>17605635
I have a strong suspicion that you are young yourself. If you haven't figured out the questions in Dosto's works by the time you're 26, you're ngmi.

The Underground Man is right about everything, despite his personal flaws. All these people who lust for life are the root of all our problems. The rest of us just want to spend the next 80 years waiting comfortably for death, improving our conditions a bit here and there.

>b-but the whore loved him
Even though the reason for doing what he did was wrong, he ultimately did the right thing. That is his redemption - he does the right thing despite himself.

>>17605989
Exactly my point it felt like a straw man argument made into a novel
I liked it despite this. I'm just being a cunt for (You)s

Currently reading Demons and deel like I'm getting filtered hard. Just finished the part where the group of youths go visit the Holy fool and I'm so fucking confused.

>>17602816
Ah the ol holding onto your despair pridefully refusing to humble yourself before God because you're too egotistical.

Literally what FD writes about. Retard.

>>17604026
Very good read anon I appreciate your post. Sadly I spoiled Demons for myself reading it but it also made me want to go re-read TBK.

>>17606079
>I can’t believe in God somehow means I stubbornly refuse to believe in God
retard read before you post

>>17606132
I don't believe you can't believe in God.

>>17606003
Comparing ourselves to others is always messy, but I think the problem is being too sure about what you want. Maybe the safest route is to look at suffering and say "I don't want that" rather than allowing your current self to dictate the terms of future success. We are hardwired to need the company of others. Its why ppl visit this board etc even when they are at their most misanthropic. I was/am a (recovering) narcissist. I couldn't handle the isolation that that eventually imposed. I had to learn how to be small and humble but I eventually found that there were worthwhile things for me to do in life, things to do FOR other people. It works, that's all I can say. Father Zossima in The Brothers Karamazov is the best avatar for what I'm trying to talk about.

I can see that you tried, but I honestly believe that the game is to try and try and try and try.

>>17606146
>I refuse to accept that others have different views than me

>>17606004
How could you claim to understand Dostoevsky and even TYPE the phrase 'ngmi' in the same post?

>>17606146
Not him but I’ve been trying to be Christian for a while now and I just can’t do it. I don’t doubt that there’s some kind of god, but believing that Jesus dies and came back is what I struggle to believe. I’ll keep trying but I don’t know if it’ll happen. I just want to escape nihilism

>>17606132
If you focus on loving your fellow man you'll end up believing in God as a byproduct. This is a key psychological fact about mankind and its inconvenient to New Atheist types and Bertrand Russell fans PRECISELY because they don't think it proves them wrong.

>>17606156
Thanks this is a lot of good Adive anon. My problem is getting the motivation to change. As for the game being continuing to try, I understand that fully. I just don’t enjoy the game

>>17606159
Is this where I pull your card of "trust me I'm like _____!" I was like you and would pretend I couldn't believe in God but oh so badly wanted to but the reality was I was making very little effort to actually know God and was content with my "noble suffering"

Go to your local orthodox church and chat with the priest and begin attending the divine liturgy.

>>17606171
What's wrong with ngmi?

>>17606187
not that anon so fuck off with your assumptions I’m just saying you’re autistic for not accepting other’s views

>>17606198
I don't accept your views because they're wrong.

>>17606202
the only view I have posted ITT is that you are a sperg and it’s pretty self-evident

>>17606220
If you think all views are to be accepted or even respected then you're wrong.

>>17606182
I can feel your resolution, Anon, and I respect it. I'm a literal stranger. But I think that unless I'm very wrong about human nature, then there are at least a few bites of life small enough that you feel you can chew them, at least a few goals tiny enough that they are within your reach. And any improvement can be built upon with more improvements. Anything positive that is within your reach, however tiny, is the golden thread that you can follow in the labyrinth of the minotaur. You are Theseus, we all are. So please today or tomorrow or next week or whenever, please take the time to challenge your feeling that the game is not worth it, life really is here to be lived. All my best Anon

>>17606196
giving up on people, especially young people.

>>17606240
I'm just in a bad mood and looking for an internet fight.

>>17606004
I have a strong suspicion that you're autistic.