/lit/ - Literature

>>17460235
Good.

The more I read, the more I become confused about everything.

>>17460235
It's a function of the need for categorisation. About the point you have amassed enough book learning that you have strong opinions on the Dewey decimal system, you should be a proficient nazi, both in and outside of grammatic debates.

>>17460235
The more I hear about politics the more I get the urge to grill.

>>17460252
Yup

>>17460235
Read something leftist then

>>17460256
kek

>>17460235
Just take the shortcut and read Evola.
>>17460252
This makes me sad anon.
>>17460256
Unironically the most based thing I've laid my eyes on these past two months, lol.
>>17460288
Why?

>make it halfway through the wiki summary of eugenics
>check my phone
>no messages
>check twitter
>no notifications
>check youtube
>no new videos
>try to finish the wiki summary
>remember i haven't checked /lit/
>damn still no (you)s
>upload frog
>post thread

>>17460310
Have you been stalking me or something?

tell me whyyyy should i let you go go you know i love you so so so that's why i'm here tonight

>>17460235
Retard. You're doing it wrong. Also, you've probably read like 10 books in total.

>>17460310
Please stop tracking my digital footprint.

>>17460297
Imagine finding leftist literature persuasive if you're not a woman, a jew, or colored.

>>17460477
Brilliant argument, a dazzling show of the right's intellectual prowess and commitment to Truth

>>17460493
>capital T truth
The entire point was that leftism relies on intellectual bribery, a sort of pandering in the pursuit of prejudiced interests rather than truth. Not even that anon btw, I just hate everyone who thinks human rights do or should exist. Everyone should be valuated on their actual doings, behavior, and ability.

>>17460493
>”intellectual prowess”
>thinks he’s a woman

>>17460493
YWNBARW

>>17460297
im not dumb enough to see past the glaring holes in such utopian trash

>>17460235
What are you reading?

>>17460575
Evola, Spengler, De Maistre, Plato, Aristotle, Guenon, Schmitt, Strauss

>>17460590
If you have genuine intellectual curiousity and aren't just agreeing with the latest thing you've read, you should try some alternative polemicists.

>>17460626
>aren't just agreeing with the latest thing you've read
not OP but how do I stop doing this?

>>17460635
>not OP but how do I stop doing this?
You're quite literally asking how does one critically think about things. How the fuck is anyone to answer this in a way that will make you less of a midwit?

>>17460635
Polemic writers usually strawman their opponents. They might not even be wrong. But you'd never know.
>>17460646
Agree, some people will never think critically. I don't even mean in a "wake up sheeple" sense; they just take things at face value there's nothing to be woken up

>>17460635
fact check. duh. we have this amazing thing called google.

>>17460626
You don’t get much more alternative in 2021 than De Maistre

>>17460635
Once you have read enough and have your own views on what does and does not make sense, you will do that naturally unless you are literally retarded.
>>17460680
>fact check a philosopher
bruh moment
>>17460710
based
>>17460590
also based

>>17460736
>bruh moment
philosophers are equally capable of misrepresenting facts. they do it all the time

>>17460235
I sure hope you haven't encountered hobbes or Confucius. They're the /lit/ equivalent of being redpilled into realizing our current establishment relies on chaos and misery to keep us in line

>>17460310
pales in comparison to the original

>>17460235
yeah I'm thinking based

>>17460235

What's a genuinely erudite and HONEST leftist polemicist or otherwise serious political work? Leftoids always have this problem of either dishonesty or moralism. And I mean dishonesty as a basic character trait, not just for disagreeing with me.

>>17460769
Anon this isn't history.
>>17460797
First time I've ever laughed at genuine suicidefuel. I feel like the anon who wrote this is a dangerous man.

>>17460797
jesus fucking christ

>>17460838
Honestly? Marx. I am not joking. I read Marx for the purpose of "getting both sides" and he's not just insightful but also hilarious. I hotly recommend his books on the collapse of the second French Republic and on the 1848 German revolutions. Very fun reads. Marx turned me into a NazBol. I'd also recommend Lenin, who I very much enjoyed, but I am not sure if he treats his Tsarist and rightist opponents equitably. He btfos "ultralefts" pretty fucking hard though. Both Marx and Lenin have a sort of dry, acerbic wit that is genuinely captivating to read.

>>17460256
This isn't you first shit post. Keep up the good work.

>>17460635
Read more. One thing you can do is read letters between intellectuals of differing opinions, because it forces you to take a side.

>>17460838
Bataille

>>17460235
The opposite happened to me, but i had no business being right winged in the first place.

>>17460797
>sissy porn
Based and cute
>sissy hypno
cringe and consent-violating

>>17460590
>Evola, Spengler, De Maistre, Plato, Aristotle, Guenon, Schmitt, Strauss

>>17460797
>that post
OP absolutely btfo

>>17460297
not him but the good stuff leads me to different interpretations or that i perfectly understand it but disagree on some basic assumptions and scope, which are not examined and even if they were couldn't be proven over another set.

it leads me to decidedly unleftist and unliberal views. the rest is just boring reinforcement of what many already vaguely believe and it's easy to see through if you don't believe it. because most of the points, at least at an aesthetic level, have been adopted by pop culture (and supposed rightwingers even), the quality of most things leftist is extremely low and unsatisfying and suspicious (commercial, dishonest).

>>17460911
>uses a 2-year-old wojak edit
The left is so unoriginal you can’t even make your own memes, kek

>>17460885
His argument that the various caliphates of history were somehow proto-Fascost is kinda funky. Can't say I agree with him on the acquisition-expenditure distinction either.

>>17460988
Holy cope, you see people using it all the time faggot

>>17460990
It's in reference to the OG caliphate but yeah. His marxist platitudes are kind of boring but the other bits he does are good food for thought.

>>17460911
Why don't you tell us what's so bad about these thinkers, anon? I am sure you have very good, well informed arguments as to why that is.

>>17460235
The more I read, the more neoliberal I become, because everyone on every side seems completely insane.

>>17460911
yes, a white man who converted to islam and had race mixed children is a nazi/fascist

>>17461111
Anon... how does that make any sense?

>>17460563
Not an argument

>>17460590
There’s your problem.


Fake thread.
1/10

>>17461148
Most people on this board read Guenon because he inspired Evola even though Guenon hated Evola and fascism.

>>17461191
>Most people on this board read Guenon because he inspired Evola even though Guenon hated Evola and fascism.
>t. guy who has "read Guenon"

>>17460911
Based. /pol/ fags need to go back

>>17461154
The more he reads the more neoliberal (centrist) he becomes.

>>17461154
Anon... how does op make more sense

>>17461155
of course it wasn't an argument, I wasn't talking part in any sort of debate, are you a literal fucking retarded person? I suppose i shouldn't expect more from you, you literally just made this post to garner attention to validate your own feelings and ego. a true testament to womankind lmao

That's what reality does to you.

>>17461217
If you're retarded

>>17461155
You are a very unpleasant person.
>>17461206
I understand becoming apolitical, but how is neoliberalism in any way attractive today, unless you like the taste of the blood of Iraqi children etc? I would be really surprised to see even one person who thinks the structure of politics and society today is acceptable and good.

>>17460297
I ONLY read leftist literature through college and it's what made me right-wing. I'm afraid to read right-wing literature

>>17461191
>>17461196
It's the tradzoom->Islamist pipeline.

>>17461212
>read book
>change your opinion
It makes perfect sense. Moreover, it does subscribe to the idea of some neoliberal exceptionalism, which is just bizarre and surreal to accept in current year.

>>17460256
this reads like some DFW shit lol

>>17461235
Not as weird as changing your opinion every time you change the page

>>17461232
Is it really? That would explain, well, not a lot, but a bit. Honestly, I prefer trad Muslims who praise Evola instead. I've seen a few. That "Sufi of Rome" book seems like bullshit, but maybe it has a part to play with that scene, too.

>>17461239
The minds of some people echo like dry wells.

>>17461224
>Doesn’t like the neoliberal status quo
>Thinks I’m unpleasant
How do you propose to stop neoliberalism, if you think it at all possible?

>>17461239
How come you think that's weird? Especially if you didn't read many good books before, it makes a lot of sense to change your opinion as you read books. Whenever I pick up a book I read it with the hope that it will revolutionise at least part of my worldview.

>>17460988
two years? no.... there's no way It's been that long

>>17461248
How is it not weird? It sounds like you are just easily lead

>>17461241
Imagine that your entire worldview is a parody of what lots of people in these spaces were doing pre-2015. Redpilling has evolved into finding things to call the most based and redpilled.

>>17460288
Checked
The revolution will need the Grillënwaffen

Kind of, It helps me empathize and understand where other humans might be coming from but "humanity" is as vapid a category as anything else leftists hate as general categories desu

>>17460235
Let me guess, you're reading old stuff.

>>17461245
please dont tell me you dont actually believe the only alternative to neoliberalism is your genius solution which consists of waving a magic wand and transforming human beings into automatons that all act precisely as you say.

>>17460235
the purpose of a system is what it does. you were always right wing and reading is just confirming your bias

>>17460297
This is exactly what made me a fascist

>>17461245
I don't know if it's possible. I think there are worthwhile odds of breaking neoliberalism - perhaps 35/65 - but the odds of replacing the current system with a "good" one are much, much lower. Ideally, you'd have right wing populists synthesise an excellent left-right platform, sweep the masses, then attack an internally divided neoliberal elite, all the while collaborating with the leftists in a competition to overcome the liberals rather than to defeat each other. If these protagonists avoid the bad ends of military rule or other underwhelming forms of government, a revolutionary regime that gradually purifies its ideological and political system would be the ultimate conclusion. I am not sure how that could work on the international level, though. Perhaps Europe could realign on this basis, if and when US neoliberal power declines. I think that the more likely option, however, is limited to forcing the liberals to abandon their pretence at democracy.
>>17461264
Idk anon do you just read stale garbage?
>>17461274
Based?
>>17461310
Was it Lenin-senpai, anon?

>>17460304
>Why?
Politics, American ones at least, are a circus show. Republicans and Democrats will go thirteen rounds over a bill which will not affect my life one bit. The majority of working class people will never notice the affects of bills passed. Only once in a hundred blue moons will a bill affect my or any other working man's life in a significant way. Politics are so inconsequential and yet those who are interested in politics beyond a surface level are the most insufferable people you will ever meet, and it's unfortunate because politics are the only things they know how to have a conversation about. I've taken the grillpill.

>>17460797
>he gets a match on Tinder
>she replies

>>17460477
>tfw you're black and fascist

>>17461347
>Politics, American ones at least, are a circus show. Republicans and Democrats will go thirteen rounds over a bill which will not affect my life one bit.
Not one bit? What about education policy? Immigration? Policing? Taxes? Civil liberties? The general climate of the culture you live in, like what is considered prestigious or bad art? The themes and values of your nation? Your local community? Do none of these concern you? Surely you must feel something for at least one of these spheres.
With all that said, yes, party politics are quite boring and inane, especially in the social media age. Radical politics are more fun though. Just my two cents.

>>17461367
based afro-nationalist

>>17460493
He makes a valid point. The point is that the massive holes of hypocrisy, complete lack of awareness of human nature and seething "reverse" racism in leftist literature should be obvious to anyone unless you meet any of the follow criteria:

Woman: Do whatever mainstream media tells them to do, this has been studied, especially in regards to sexual mores. Try reading a basic into sociology book you retard cuck

Jew: Are biologically tribal and hateful towards out groups and pathologically jealous of what white people created and achieved in spite of their religious books proclaiming that they were supposed to be the chosen people. Leftism is, so far, a very successful cultural attack on family values and institutions in the West. Which makes more sense, EVERY people who have interacted with Jews has become hateful towards them because they are jealous of them (lol), or, Jews are by nature a hateful disturbed race of degenerated sub human that can't get along with literally anyone else for too long due to pathological lying, undermining, unrelenting passive-aggressive attack and compulsive evil?

Colored: Low intelligence and low character "people" who are easily manipulated especially when treated like a child race by the left.

Check-mate niggerfaggot-lover.

>>17461245

Lol butters your political beliefs are literally "how about 10 billion people just sit down and pass a joint around a sweet drum circle and live in harmony until the end of time brooooo" why are you even pretending you have anything to contribute to this conversation? you are so completely disconnected from reality you make other leftist ideologies look functional in comparison. not even conservatives are as delusional as you are, and they actually still believe conservative politicians represent good wholesome family values

>>17461367
Spoke to a few Ethiopian fascists ones, they were really based. They had very nuanced opinions on Fascist Italy as well, which surprised me a lot.
>>17461407
>you are so completely disconnected from reality you make other leftist ideologies look functional in comparison
That's just anarchists in general.

>>17460235
I am something like a marxist-leninist but people like butterfly saying shit like "neoliberalism is inescapable" are the most annoying anarchists.
Also the rejection of religion is just flat out retarded in Marxism, despite him being quite a good writer on other matters.

>>17461398
>Check-mate niggerfaggot-lover.
Made me lol for some reason, have a (You)

>>17461230
>afraid to read right-wing literature
That is extremely cucked of you. What are you afraid of anon?

>>17461333
>Idk anon do you just read stale garbage
You don't?

>>17461470
You

>>17461407
>not even conservatives are as delusional as you are, and they actually still believe conservative politicians represent good wholesome family values
Imagine thinking some folksy-presenting family-values talking head would be an effective person to represent your material interests in the maintenance of the state and its allocation of taxes, and not just some sociopathic grifter smelling out the easiest way to bank votes from sentimentalists. If anarchists have anything going for them it's that they understand politics. They just don't understand government.

>>17461501
You almost sound like you understand what you're saying

>>17461333
>but the odds of replacing the current system with a "good" one are much, much lower.
They’re going to go up as the thing starts to slip farther into Great Depression II.
>rightwing populism
This is an authoritarian patch on the already existing corporatism, aka fascism, right?
>sweep the masses
What?
>then attack
You know they’ll just attack the poorest and darkest skinned. Yes, some DNC heads will roll, but killing just Jewish billionaires isn’t going to do squat.
>abandon democracy
... there isn’t any democracy in the US.
> You are a very unpleasant person

>>17461501
yes i mean thats pretty much what i was saying, conservatism is basically the worshiping of sociopathic grifters smelling out the easiest way to bank votes from sentimentalists as you so aptly put it, I dont think people who participate in that are even remotely as fucked up and anarchists though. conservatives are at least perpetuating a concrete system that can actually exist in real life. anarchists are desperately attached to fantasies that will never exist anywhere but in a theoretical state in their heads, and they can only get THAT far because of extreme lenience/ignorance allowing for a mindset where anything can be theoretically possible because you can put 2 and 2 together to make 5 in your mind and no one can stop you

>>17461407
>Little people couldn’t possibly function without corporate structures, bureaucracy, lawyers, police and government officials. Dude, that’s pot smoking utopia!
>Freedom? Democracy? Fuck that shit. What the world needs is strict structures and more work hours. Like install sleeping quarters at the workplace, right?

>>17460297
Your """""""""""leftist""""""""""" literature got us to the current point in our pozzed, fucked, economically crippled, corpocracy where dissent against the corpocracy is muzzled. How fucking backwards and weak and retarded is your ideology that it either led to this (because Donald Trump bad, right?) or at the very least did not prevent it. Either way, I'm not sure any "leftists" exist at all. Fuck you.

>>17460235
The more I read the more I find the idea of having ''''''political opinions''''''' some kind of gigantic larp. You can argue the pros and cons of some position, or of some period or regime in history, but you can only speculate as to the true causes of historical conditions, and many of these causes had nothing to do with human agency but were the result of technological changes or large scale social processes. The idea of having a)a really strong opinion about the ideal state of society and b)the unbelievably delusional belief that your having this opinion is going to impact the world in some meaningful fashion, I mean it's just completely ridiculous. You can point out obviously fucked up political situations if you want and get mad about them, there are always a bunch of these going on, but it doesn't matter if you do this or not, whether you die tonight or not is not going to impact what happens in society in general.

The whole psychological apparatus that we have devoted to politics is clearly evolved for tribal hunter-gatherer situations where voicing our opinions and acting in various ways actually does impact the politics of the tribe. When we apply these tribal instincts to modern politics with its 100s of millions of people and hugely complex stratified systems, we are like cats attacking ourselves in a mirror, we are misfiring on a fundamental level to a situation we did not evolve for. The only possible application of these tribal political instincts are in the small scale situations of your family, your group of friends, an institution you belong to of a few dozen to hundred people, there within that context, you do make a difference in these political games, but this does not then ripple out to the larger civilizational issues. I can't believe how many people I see make an argument of the form 'if only everyone did x', eg. when discussing voting, or a revolution or whatever. If you are talking to 20 people in a tribe of 100, then saying that actually has a causal impact. If you are a random prole in the USA saying that has a totally negligible impact, you cannot reach enough people for it to matter, so the 'if only' is senseless, there is no 'if only', because everyone will not do it if you do and if you talk about it. Even if you're Donald Trump or Vladimir Putin you can't actually just create that sort of large scale coordinated behavior simply by saying stuff, it does not scale up like that.

The way information and belief work at these scales is complex and even the most powerful elements in this equation- financial interests, the press, the education system, etc. are not merely individual agents carrying out political impulses like they would in a tribal setting. They do have an more influence on what happens, but the mechanism is still entirely different and they mostly can only act such as to reinforce the existing power structures that benefit them, they are cogs too mostly.

>>17461448
>Also the rejection of religion is just flat out retarded in Marxism, despite him being quite a good writer on other matters.
It makes sense if you consider that Marxism aims to explain the entirety of existence in terms of matter and economics, but yeah it's one of the bad points of Marxism. Definitely deterred me from following the tradition.
>>17461479
Actually I have been reading exclusively stale garbage recently. I had stopped reading fiction entirely but now I am back to low brow bullshit. It's embarrassing, but it is what it is.
>>17461484
Based reply.
>>17461538
>They’re going to go up as the thing starts to slip farther into Great Depression II.
We shall see. I know lots of depressed radicals who just use the economy, environment, demographics, repression etc. as various copes. I am slightly optimistic about toppling liberalism, but very pessimistic about replacing it with something good.
>This is an authoritarian patch on the already existing corporatism, aka fascism, right?
I am not sure what you mean by this. I am referring to anti-system right wing ideas.
>What?
I meant "win over". Perhaps I phrased myself poorly?
>You know they’ll just attack the poorest and darkest skinned. Yes, some DNC heads will roll, but killing just Jewish billionaires isn’t going to do squat.
That's not what I was referring to. Individuals are just scapegoats, the levers of power are what matters. Those must always remain the sole priority for any constructive action. By "attack", I was referring to politics, not physical force.
>... there isn’t any democracy in the US.
That is why I said "pretence". I fully expect the liberals to transition to military rule as soon as the current form of government becomes untenable.

>>17461581
>"We need more freedom"
>Population lapses into degeneracy, sexual marketplace destroys human happiness, capitalists emerge
>"We need more democracy"
>People elect orange man
We need more structures, butters.

>>17461232
Arguably the coolest political movement of our day.

>>17461581
lol yes because the entire human race will just smoothly function without any sort of concrete structure, billions people will perpetually live in a hippie communes that functions entirely on a basis of pure honesty and good will and will collapse with the slightest deviation from that, because THAT is how humans work right? we are all just clones who function the exactly the same way all acvcording to fucking butterfly 's design, no one will ever break the mold here!

Im sorry but if you want to be taken seriously, come back when you have a real life concrete suggestion that doesn't depend entirely on a billion trillion variables all falling precisely into place according to your design. until you do that youre nothing more than a clown who pops up and does your dance for everyone to laugh at

>>17461581
>>Little people couldn’t possibly function without corporate structures, bureaucracy, lawyers, police and government officials. Dude, that’s pot smoking utopia!
I mean, yeah, basically.

>>17461638
Nothing has uprooted my libertarian tendencies like the last 2 years of degeneracy taking on its bold new face.
I thought we could be free but that just lets psychopaths psyop us into dust

>>17460310
KEK

>>17461602
The people who own those corporations are not reading leftist literature about how we need to destroy the owners of capitalism and replace them with drum circles. They are balancing the demands of their slaves (which are themselves mediated and cultivated to serve capital) with their profit margins.

>>17461647
go easy on her mate, she literally believes that the half-susccesful principles governing a commune of like 100 people can be applied to billions and that system will just perpetually exist in a vacuum without any deviation

>>17461626
Good point, I had this thought process a while back as well
I like the comparison to hunter-gatherer-systems, that's probably where our political interest comes from (because it makes sense evolutionary) but today it's useless and we think our opinions matter when they don't
Not to mention the fact that our viewpoints on politics mostly is based from what specific information you heard which is not necessarily reality

>>17461662
>she literally believes that the half-susccesful principles governing a commune of like 100 people
There was a half-successful commune of a 100 people? That's news to me.

>>17460797
My fucking sides

>>17461643
>we are all just clones who function the exactly the same way all according to fucking butterfly 's design

Its pretty funny how her own political beliefs are basically just a projection of her own sun sized ego

>>17461626
Based

>>17461656
Well it was that, college and Keynes for me. When I got to college I quickly saw what "freedom" leads to, and that relegated the free market to a solely economic theory. Once I read Keynes, even that flew out of the window.

>>17460252
sounds about right

>>17461679
I'm curious what college economics teach students about the Federal Reserve

>>17461371
>Education policy
Rarely ever changes significantly, at least where I live. And that's State politics. Which I guess I should clarify, it's politics on the federal level which I could care less about. State politics are of course important.
>Immigration
I don't give a shit either way. More hands make less work.
>Policing
Another thing which almost never changes.
>Taxes
Never change that significantly.
>Civil liberties
I'm already free to do what I want within reason. This is another thing which doesn't change that often (anymore at least)
>What is considered prestigious or bad art?
How does this affect me in the slightest?
>Themes and values of your nation?
Not my cow, not my farm.
>Local community
Very important, never changes though.

>>17461673
yea i guess there hasn't ever actually been a commune that hasn't at the very least been destroyed by outside pressure

the funny thing is butterfly has addressed this problem, you see, a magic wand will be waved and there wont BE any outside forces, everyone will just split up into tiny communes over night and there wont be any large communities left. problem solved! also no small communes will ever band together and attack others "because"

>stirner
>morality is a spook bros
>marx
>kill your enemies bros
>schoppenhaeur
>life is meaningless bros
>nietzche
>christianity is fake bros just kill your enemies bros
Aaaaaaah!

>>17460310
>>17461230
Read Gobineau

>>17461626
>You can argue the pros and cons of some position, or of some period or regime in history, but you can only speculate as to the true causes of historical conditions, and many of these causes had nothing to do with human agency but were the result of technological changes or large scale social processes.
This is itself a political opinion in that it is an opinion with clear political implications.
>You can point out obviously fucked up political situations if you want and get mad about them, there are always a bunch of these going on, but it doesn't matter if you do this or not, whether you die tonight or not is not going to impact what happens in society in general.
Blatantly self-indulgent and vapid comment. All of the big autocrats of the 20th century were unknown, worthless poorfags in their youth. What do you think about that?
>
The whole psychological apparatus that we have devoted to politics is clearly evolved for tribal hunter-gatherer situations where voicing our opinions and acting in various ways actually does impact the politics of the tribe.
This is, again, a political opinion. Just because you have developed an opinion that does not fit in any of the major currents of politics does not mean it is not political in nature. Moreover, it is also wrong, as even if we accept your axioms here, the Hellenic city-states provide good and much more recent examples of individual opinions mattering.
>The only possible application of these tribal political instincts are in the small scale situations of your family, your group of friends, an institution you belong to of a few dozen to hundred people, there within that context, you do make a difference in these political games, but this does not then ripple out to the larger civilizational issues.
Completely baseless and arbitrary opinion.
>I can't believe how many people I see make an argument of the form 'if only everyone did x', eg. when discussing voting, or a revolution or whatever.
"Everyone" won't do x, but they can and you only need a sufficient number of them for great change.
>Even if you're Donald Trump or Vladimir Putin you can't actually just create that sort of large scale coordinated behavior simply by saying stuff, it does not scale up like that.
What about a random grifter retard like Q-anon? Him saying random stuff scaled up to a huge fiasco with direct political fallout, what with the whole Capitol issue.

>>17461706
Roughly what you'd expect.
>the Fed is a private entity, with control over the US monetary supply
>it has a dual mandate: inflation and unemployment
>here are the ways in which the fed affects both these (quant easing, federal funds rate, buying and selling bonds ...)

>>17461706
most colleges just teach narrow neoclassical economics. It isn’t very interesting

>>17461659
But your leftist literature did not prevent it, and Antifa actively promoted it. Even if you want to argue that Antifa are not pro-corporation and pro-establishment (they are), they were so ineffective at being "against" these things that all they managed to accomplish was inflicting physical violence on working class people. Good fucking job, faggot. Hope eating bugs, living in a shipping container, wearing four masks and owning nothing for the rest of eternity was worth it so you could punch an old white person in the face who wore a Trump hat. Good, good. Maybe you'll wake the fuck up, but I doubt it.

>>17461638
>Degeneracy
>Sex
>we’ve unironically too little control
So you want Orange Man 2 to enact a law for a Handmaidens society. So you can get laid.

>>17461643
Actual democracy, DD, will require mass participation and yes, it will get smoothed out after a short learning curve. Billions of people will live as they want with far less strain.
>we are all just clones
Wrong. Absolutely wrong.

>>17461635
>We shall see.
Yes. And that something good is just not-capitalism. Non accumulative currency. And DD.

> I am referring to anti-system right wing ideas.
Which is what, “eco-fascism”?
> That's not what I was referring to. Individuals are just scapegoats, the levers of power are what matters.
Oh okay. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
So my political solution is just Direct Democracy. Turn our collective backs on heads of state. When growing up rightwing, I would always hear how we’re the side for freedom and democracy and small government. Those are the rightwingers I want to find again. They’re afraid of the “S” word, but it’s just democracy in earnest.

>>17461749
>it will get smoothed out after a short learning curve. Billions of people will live as they want with far less strain

and you are basing this on what exactly?

>>17461749
>Comment with four criticisms
>you pick out the one about sex and reply with "incel Chud"
My dislike for sexual freedoms does not imply an assent to authoritarian regulation of the sexual marketplace

>>17461727
>All of the big autocrats of the 20th century were unknown, worthless poorfags in their youth. What do you think about that?
They played a role within large complex systems, they did not create the historical conditions that led to these dynamics, they only exerted small amounts of influence on some specifics. I did say that these people do have more influence, but that influence is still very limited.

>"Everyone" won't do x, but they can and you only need a sufficient number of them for great change.
The point is that there is zero causal connection between you saying that and them doing it. "if only everyone did x', yes well what is going to cause them to do it? It's a useless thought experiment that only even occurs to you because again your instincts are primed for talking to a group of people who make of a meaningful proportion of the political whole, in which case saying that 'if only we all do x' actually does have an impact.

Qanon took advantage of an existing dynamic and fed people things they wanted to hear, and he still couldn't control precisely what qboomers did. Without the internet, without a million other economic and political factors, there is no qanon, qanon operated within narrow bounds of possible action and the result of that action was largely chaotic memes.

You know very well that you are totally and utterly powerless, that your actions don't matter, that if you die nothing will change. You know this in your bones but you reactively spew political rhetoric anyway.

>>17461748
Who are you even arguing with at this point. It's a simple fact that gigantic multinationals are not leftist, they are not caused by leftist literature, and leftist literature hasn't caused anything in a society where nobody reads books except Harry Potter, Fifty Shades of Gray, and the Bible

>>17461749
buttercup those rednecks are labor aristocrats believe it ir not.
They find shitty manual bluecollar jobs that pay well.
When they say they want small government they mean less taxes so they can buy various kinds of mechanical junk.
They also want less immigration so they wont run the risk of losing said jobs.
Theyll never side with any kind of ism.
If any kind of ism was tried to be implemented theyd start shit.
How do we get these damn rednecks to leave the country? Sick and tired of their shit.
We just need to keep pushing the tranny shit and maybe convince them to move to australia.

>>17461708
>Rarely ever changes significantly, at least where I live. And that's State politics. Which I guess I should clarify, it's politics on the federal level which I could care less about. State politics are of course important.
How do you think state politics interact with the two party system and federal politics?
>I don't give a shit either way. More hands make less work.
That's surprising to hear, I always thought immigration, both external and internal, affects Americans greatly and they tend to move out a lot as a result. Take Detroit, for example.
>Another thing which almost never changes.
No? What about the whole "defund the police" campaign half a year ago? It doesn't concern you?
>I'm already free to do what I want within reason. This is another thing which doesn't change that often (anymore at least)
It seems to me that the First Amendment is very much undermined online and I can't remember a time when the Second Amendment was doing worse than now. It's increasingly being limited more and more. That doesn't concern you either? Honestly I thought you'd care about this, since you're on 4chan which is the First Amendment paradise.
>How does this affect me in the slightest?
I don't know. It affects me. Most of western art today seems to me either consumerist garbage or subversive bullshit, so I can't stomach it. I just read old or foreign books now, but it gets lonely. I wish there were people I could read, discuss and write literature with. It's unfortunate.
>Not my cow, not my farm.
Are you not a part of this society anon? Perhaps you have your own secluded and self-sufficient farm? I am not going to lie, I'd like something like that, but I find myself forced to participate in society.
>Very important, never changes though.
I am happy that has been the case for you and hope it remains so, but communities do change. I mentioned Detroit earlier. The communities living there today are completely different from the ones who lived there one hundred years ago.
>>17461749
>Yes. And that something good is just not-capitalism. Non accumulative currency. And DD.
You think that there is a good chance that we will completely replace capitalism anytime soon? The best I can imagine is a mixed economy.
>Which is what, “eco-fascism”?
One among many options. Normal economically left fascism seems sufficient for the job, though it would probably campaign under another name.
>So my political solution is just Direct Democracy. Turn our collective backs on heads of state. When growing up rightwing, I would always hear how we’re the side for freedom and democracy and small government. Those are the rightwingers I want to find again. They’re afraid of the “S” word, but it’s just democracy in earnest.
How do you think that will happen? I am not going to lie, I think direct democracy is very flawed, like democracy in general, although far less so than liberal democracy. The issue is that liberals will never willingly surrender their power.

>>17461792
Funny image bro but lefties and commies were so against Trump when Trump was unironically the country's best hope against, at the VERY least, big tech. I PERSONALLY know Communists, actual self-professed Communists, who voted for Biden because "we need to get Trump out." It at least shows that your entire ideology is so fucking withered that it can be subservient to a fucking neoliberal pro-corporation regime. If you don't see this, than I don't know what to say to you. The right in the past few years have consistently been the most anti-corporation group out of anyone. Laugh at that all you want, I don't care. Reading fucking Foucault or Parenti or whoever the fuck won't solve anything if your average "leftist" thinks the guy trying to break down big tech is evil and must be stopped. But yeah I'll take my meds tho

>>17461763
Estimations, which is why I’m not giving any numbers. People are perfectly capable of running things for themselves. And far more efficiently. I do acknowledge that it can be confusing at first, but they’d get used to it. Meets would probably get shorter and easier with time.
Billions aren’t voting via zoom calls. We’d meet in person with 4000 to 5000 per neighborhood tops.

>>17461766
Mmkay. We are under a giant thumbscrew, anon. The vices are illusions of freedom. We need real freedom.

>>17461794
Oh, I know. “Less taxes?” I’d say, “try no taxes”. We can convert some of them if we can replace the failing economy with a new one. Some will respond to the tighter community family values stuff that DD will foster.
And they’re not the rednecks. Those were actual American revolutionaries

>>17461840
Where's the thumbscrew forcing people to be sexual degenerates

>>17461840
>Estimations
literally "just trust me bro" lmao. youre such a fucking clown holy shit, you seem to make your life revolve around this shit and you cant even justify it under pressure

>People are perfectly capable of running things for themselves
yes people are perfectly capable of running things by creating concrete stricture to prop up society, not just having billions of people doing whatever the fuck they want and can get away with before an angry mob turns them into an african communal justice liveleak video

>>17461822
It's not my ideology first of all and secondly American national-level politics are a literal hollywood production. Biden speeches read like the title crawl from a Star Wars movie; Trump was an actual reality show host. If there were an existential electoral risk to corporate power in the United States we would likely find ourselves... in the very situation we are in now yes? Gerontocrat from tax haven Delaware made caretaker president during a crisis caused by the government, frightening the Obama coalition into voting his vice president in so that soon enough a Californian lawyer can be president and corporate America is safe for 12 more years.

>>17461789
>They played a role within large complex systems, they did not create the historical conditions that led to these dynamics, they only exerted small amounts of influence on some specifics. I did say that these people do have more influence, but that influence is still very limited.
This is a ludicrous position. Stalin singlehandedly overturned the entire Bolshevik system and reorganised the state according to his designs, purging perhaps two million people in the process. This same guy was a physically lame theology student who got turned down for military service by the Tsarist administration. For twenty years, Stalin was the "historical conditions" of the USSR, just like Hitler was the "historical conditions" of Germany, where every institution and person of note strove to earn his favour.
>The point is that there is zero causal connection between you saying that and them doing it.
This is very easily disproved and the way to do it is literally to just convince one person to do something. If you can convince one, you can convince many - all you need is more effort. As I mentioned, Q-anon got 200 000 people to turn up to some shit demonstration. That's something.
>"if only everyone did x', yes well what is going to cause them to do it?
"If only everyone did x" is a cope version of this approach. The real version is "if only you specifically do x right now". Masses are formed by individuals. You can argue that persuading one person is irrelevant, but if you repeatedly persuade people one after another, you will soon be looking at a notable human group.
>Qanon took advantage of an existing dynamic and fed people things they wanted to hear, and he still couldn't control precisely what qboomers did.
It would be a truly incredible spectacle if he could fully control them, given that he's an anonymous shitposter. If you are going to chalk up human flaws to "systemic factors", though, you will really be stretching the meaning of the term.
>Without the internet, without a million other economic and political factors, there is no qanon, qanon operated within narrow bounds of possible action and the result of that action was largely chaotic memes.
Similarly, without Q-anon, all of these technological tools would have generated no political effect. You are arbitrarily eliminating an entire half of the equation and somehow that seems to make sense to you.
>You know very well that you are totally and utterly powerless, that your actions don't matter, that if you die nothing will change. You know this in your bones but you reactively spew political rhetoric anyway.
I don't "know" this, but I would very much like to believe it. Do you know why, anon? Because it means that there is nothing to lose. There is a lot of freedom in knowing that and it is that freedom, when it is realised by enough people, that writes history. It's the freedom of acting without concern for the consequences. This, by the way, is what neutralises every "structural factor".

>>17461822
neither trump nor biden are anything close to communism.
Why would someone call themselves a communist if they believe in reform?

>>17461891
Yeah I also don't believe that there are genuine American communists and I have taken the sociology and anthropology courses where I would have found them. There are LARPers, liberals, and racial activists, all of whom are useful to capital.

>>17460235
Same. The truth is, far-right wing ideology is largely correct, even if it is at times pushed by retards. Its also the ideology most hidden by the education system. They don't want you to see the truth. They don't want to debate them. They want to deplatform them and unperson them. Why? Because they're so wrong? No. They're right. It's almost terrible that they are right, but it's true. It's the reality that surrounds us. We've been living in a fantasy world. Liberalism. Egalitarianism. Equality between the sexes. All a delusion, a wonderful, beautiful delusion which I wish could be true, but it isn't.

What are you reading? I'm reading Archaofuturism at the moment.

>>17461905
>we should drive up the price of labor and therefore nearly all consumer goods by cancelling women and migration and saber rattle at every other country until global trade becomes impossible and our supply chains go kaput
Yeah I wonder why this is massively opposed.

>>17461749
Actual democracy is gulags. Actual democracy is the social credit system decentralized and done automatically by the people. Actual democracy is people being unpersoned and losing their jobs because the democracy doesn't like them. Actual democracy only protects the current popular opinions and current popular groups and you are depending on people being intelligent high quality persons who make rational choices, which is never going to be the case. STAR TREK ISN'T REAL.

>>17461920
Yeah, that's an argument based on a straw man I thought was real too. Maybe you'll get there. Just keep paying attention to reality.

>>17461927
What about potential democracy then, Chud?

the more i read the more i despise capitalism

>>17461920
>we should drive up the price of labor and therefore nearly all consumer goods by cancelling women and migration
how is this a bad thing?

>>17461927
But I want star trek to be real. I want to work towards star trek being real. If it's never happened before, then it's something we can make, together, for the first time.

>>17461927
Yes, this is why we should a meritocratic system of democratic centralism. China Good

>>17461889
>There is a lot of freedom in knowing that and it is that freedom, when it is realised by enough people,
You literally keep smuggling that in dude. 'when it is realised by enough people'. You have to understand that you can't make 'enough people realize' and do anything. The most any individual ever manages is to set off a mob who are already primed by a host of other factors to want to be a mob, and the results of this mob action are usually ineffective chaos. Most mobs are actually wielded by powerful institutions under a thin veneer of organic collective action, and these institutions are part of the complex matrix of power and have to act within a confined set of ways simply to maintain their position.

As for Stalin and Hitler, they were not absolute god monarchs, they engaged in some tyranny, but they were still bound by the material confines of their situation, which they had nothing to do with creating. If you want to argue that a very, very few men really do make history then let's just say you're right for a moment- you are not one of them, 0.000001% of people are. qanon is not one of them either, the end result of qanon demonstrations has been fuck-all, nothing but a pretext for Democrats to start cudgeling the right, which they were going to do anyway, and again Qanon didn't create those 200k people, they were looking for a qanon and a protest because of many other economic and political factors. He couldn't make those 200k people start up a commune in Nebraska, he couldn't tell them what to do outside of a very narrow window. Also qanon could very easily be a spook which would make it even less one person doing something.

>>17461934
You are as bad as the marxists who think reality is class conflict. It's turtles all the way down. You will learn the hard way that the world is will and representation. Remember these protective verses when we are taking Amazon-run social credit remediation training courses by order of the White House to combat attitudes driving inequity: I can't Sneed. It will identify you as a true member of the resistance.

>>17461948
It's why your dumb shit is always going to be unacceptable to the regime and will end with tards being gaslighted into waging "an assault on democracy" so the system can harden itself. You need to argue in terms of economic growth or equality/equity or you are just a masturbatory theorist wasting time on politics.

>>17461859
It’s an indulgence. An opioid to distract. We’re not chattel slave, nor industrial slaves, but wage slaves, debtor slaves, and this globalization open borders meme is a farce. They’re putting up walls and locking us up. Only the privileged jet-set can travel.

>>17461878
>just trust me bro
Literally how philosophy works. It’s not perfectly scientific but it is based on the same concept. You’re not convincing me that everyone is incapable of learning these basics.
>ya can’t have lots of people doing what small incompetent coke addicted pedophiles do. That shits hard work and you need that coke and a sweet underage prostitute

>>17461927
>Actual democracy is people being unpersoned and losing their jobs because the democracy doesn't like them
What the fuck are you talking about?

>>17461989
So work hours and real-wage-poverty make us sexual degenerates?
Can you provide evidence? Seems to me like the places with greatest material prosperity are the most sexually degenerate.

>>17460235
That's normal, just means you have functioning testicles unlike most neumale

>>17460297
You cannot in good consciousness be a leftist without supporting some form eugenics. Utopian ideals will never work because the majority of the population doesn't want to either. I'm sure you seen enough of those "what are you going to do on the commune" twitter screencaps to realize just how parasitic and lazy those people are. And until you can get rid of those people, you can't have a functioning "equal" society.

>>17462016
Utopia is not a left/right thing. But it is a stupid thing. Go read the Republic and Plato will explain how monstrously inhumane a lifestyle would need to be imposed on those in charge to guarantee they govern as selfless demigods.

>>17461958
>You literally keep smuggling that in dude. 'when it is realised by enough people'. You have to understand that you can't make 'enough people realize' and do anything
Its simple, instead of occupy wallstreet we... destroy wallstreet.

>>17461989
>Literally how philosophy works
im sorry no, If this was philosophy and not just your weird room temperature IQ delusions you would be able to at the very least describe how your "estimations" support the idea that a a pseudo-civilization can exist while perpetually remaining a small community who's only structure is everyone meeting in the town square to engage in a direct democracy process which is based on literally no peripheral support mechanisms beyond a mixture of angry mobs and perpetual good will and harmony between thousands of individuals (a number which never grows in any meaningful way for some reason)

>>17461799
>How do you think state politics interact with the two party system and federal politics?
I don't. I just don't care.
>That's surprising to hear, I always though immigration affects Americans greatly and they tend to move out a lot as a result. Take Detroit.
I don't live in Detroit.
>What about the whole "defund the police" campaign half a year ago? It doesn't concern you?
I don't care. As long as the local sheriff and his boys still make enough money to put food on the table I could care less about money going towards fancy riot equipment and whatnot. More money to put into education.
>It seems to me that the First Amendment is very much undermined online.
This doesn't matter to me because
A: I don't care to be online much anyway
B: I'm not an asshole who feels the need to talk a lot of bullshit on the internet
>I can't remember a time when the Second Amendment was doing worse than now.
I can still legally own all the firearms I currently own and would ever need to own. Beyond that ability, I do not care.
>I don't know. It affects me. Most of western art today seems to me either consumerist garbage or subversive bullshit, so I can't stomach it. I just read old or foreign books now, but it gets lonely. I wish there were people I could read, discuss and write literature with. It's unfortunate.
Sounds like you should grow a pair and stop worrying about something so trivial.

>>17462001
Sex for sale
BDSM
This lamentable and complex state of being at a computer all day and not working up the courage to ask a girl out and so develop a series of awful fetishes because the old vanilla sex isn’t getting you off anymore and you’re still not going to go out and find a nice girl because she’s not model/actress/pornstar caliber and oh you don’t really feel anything anymore least of all love which probably has something to do with masculinity culture so there you are again crying yourself to sleep and worrying about the degeneracy of people who are having sex too MUCH sex in your opinion
But you’re not a single issue sort. Not obsessed. Naw. Not you.

>>17462037
Um, yeah. Someone wrote down what fascism was supposed to be before they tried to force it on people.political philosophy. Thas how it work

>>17462103
I have a nice-gril gf, you're projecting.
But its also not work that creates these people, it's 4channel. And this fetishization of models/entitlement culture is associated with a decrease in work ethic: see kids being rewarded for anything nowadays.
But in any case, I would appreciate some empirical data here.

>>17462118
I did say not you.
And that it was a complex issue

>>17460252
yeeeeeeeeep. I think I have some kind of framework to go ff of and it gets BTFO by the next thing I read. I'm just content to drift and smile and eat cheese now.

>>17461353
This is probably my favourite picture in the world.

>>17460853
>but I am not sure if he treats his Tsarist and rightist opponents equitably.
Gee you don't say (pic related)
> Marx turned me into a NazBol.
Literally the worst of both sides of /pol/

>>17462110
philosophy is not just presenting conclusion, its presenting a conclusion based on a process of logical reasoning. we know your conclusion, you conclude that an anarchist civilization can exist while perpetually remaining a small community who's only structure is everyone meeting in the town square to engage in a direct democracy process with no peripheral support mechanisms like Administrators, lawyers and law enforcement, private businesses etc

now by all means, lets see the logical reasoning behind this conclusion. you can either present it, or you can admit there is none

>>17462162
>filename
I KNOW THAT'S YOU, BUTTERFLY

>>17462162
Read theory.

>>17461989
>Only the privileged jet-set can travel.
Imagine being this completely retarded and blind to the real world. You're the one that seems like a locked up incel to me. I worked a year in a shitty supermarket job and had enough to travel Europe, flying in from a different continent.

>>17462148
Mine too, lol. The duality of man.

>>17462177
This one I use

>>17462183
It’s rather hard for the lower classes (non white western) to travel. They’re increasingly seen as parasites. It’s a minor quibble between neocons and neoliberals, and another distraction designed to keep us fighting each other instead of they who make it all possible.

>>17462132
Yeah but it seems to me like virtually none of this complexity at all points in the direction of your thesis.
Historically, in the US, the sexual revolution coincided with a period of real wage growth and general economic growth.
Across the globe, material prosperity of the worker correlates with sexual degeneracy, and this is more so an effect of proximity to the west than capitalism - more labour oriented Europe is even more sexually degenerate than the US. Prostitution, in particular, is very tenuously linked to hyper-capitalism (picrel), but as you well point out, it isn't even that big a deal when compared with our shitty broken sexual culture.
I mean I just genuinely don't see how le-democratic-socialism is meant to address this other than by going full traditionalist-family-values, with the emphasis therein.

>>17462180
as you so aptly and arrogantly posted earlier in the thread
>not an argument
now lets here the logical reasoning, even just a basic run down, that reinforces the idea that an anarchist civilization can exist while perpetually remaining a small community who's only structure is everyone meeting in the town square to engage in a direct democracy process with no peripheral support mechanisms like Administrators, lawyers and law enforcement, private businesses etc

even just one tiny shred of logical reasoning supporting one aspect of this farce you've cooked up

>>17462198
>It’s rather hard for the lower classes (non white western) to travel
Uhh good? We all know what happens when 3rdies travel to nice places.

>>17462198
>It’s rather hard for the lower classes (non white western) to travel.
...Yes, because they're still developing their economies (thanks to neoliberal economics mind you). But they are increasingly becoming capable of international travel and being lifted out of poverty, so I don't see what your real point is.

>>17462198
>This one I use
you should stop. It's bad enough that you're a Tr*pper, but having signature images too? Please.

>>17462148
It's a close run second

>>17462227
This is now a favourite images thread.

>>17462201
>real wage growth
If minimum wage had kept up with inflation it would be $20+/hr. Don’t gimme this “real wage” bs

>>17462208
Put your mind to it. Here’s the theory I’ve read/been reading

>>17462209
And we all know why they’re trying to get to western/northern countries. It’s because of what happens when western/northern 1sties travel to them and bomb them, steal their resources etc.

>>17462226
Try to be brighter.

>>17462245
Where’s Shia Labeouf?

>>17460235
The more I live the more conservative I become. I used to be very liberal when I was a teenager, thinking that personal liberties wouldn't influence society and what people do indoors is none of my business. I was so wrong.

>>17462235
okay

>>17462265
>tfw reading Bataille

>>17462247
you wont share any logical reasoning because there is none, there isn't any in those books either
if you've been studying those books and they do what you say then why dont you share at least a sample of some of the logical reason they present to support the conclusion an anarchist civilization can exist while perpetually remaining a small community who's only structure is everyone meeting in the town square to engage in a direct democracy process with no peripheral support mechanisms like Administrators, lawyers and law enforcement, private businesses etc

nothing you have to say about government or class or politics matter if you literally cannot do anything but make broad statements that are not backed up by anything

you have literally never done anything but make broad statements that are not backed up by anything so far

>>17460235
>The less socialization I got, the more I read and the more I became right-wing.

>>17460297
That's going turn anyone into a fascist. Leftist books are renowned for being horrible.

>>17461111
Anyone in politics is going to be insane because the concept of managing other people's lives through the state like a human farm is absurd.

>>17461640

Lol, how do you feel about the fact they "like" (or pretend to) Che and Chavez?

>>17460252
The more I read the more people accuse me of being schizophrenic and/or a conspiracy theorist for reciting accurate historical anecdotes.

>>17462247
Yeah, real wage growth

>>17462312
I know that feel. And we're talking about mainstream history from reputed scholars as well.

>>17462318
I get called a conspiracy theorist for claiming that autonomous systems of procedure exist.

>>17462133
the only correct response

>>17461302
Not everyone follows some doctrine, weirdo. Normal people change political and policy stance all the time when new information comes in. Because politics are not a replacement for a moral foundation.

Reading and age will make people 'right wing' because reading books by old dead people from an age where hedonism and selfishness were not virtues will often rub off on you. Even many ye old leftists, if they were alive today, would be called 'right wing' and 'reactionary'

>>17462311

>>17462364

>>17462247
>read theory!
What ideas did you retain from the theory you've read that serve as a foundation for your faith in them? (by ideas i obviously do not include baseless feel good platitudes of course)

Did you even retain a single thing in that broad category?

>>17462278
Why in the world would a group of people be able to address a gas leak in their own neighborhoods better than a corporate executive who doesn’t live there? Clearly they wouldn’t know the first thing. Wow. You’ve convince me with shocking logic, Ben

>>17462378

Even Peppino, lol

>>17462394
>Clearly they wouldn’t know the first thing
Why would they? You wouldn't ask a fish to fix an oil spill.

>>17462388
Be honest for a second. I could recite each page to you and you’d be asking for multiple sources every paragraph.
What specifically are you not getting now? That the working class doesn’t know what they’re doing? That the human brain isn’t malleable?

>>17462394

why cant you explain how exactly an anarchist civilization can exist while perpetually remaining a small community who's only structure is everyone meeting in the town square to engage in a direct democracy process with no peripheral support mechanisms like Administrators, lawyers and law enforcement, private businesses etc

you literally have no basis for your beliefs and you are desperately trying to avoid admitting it lol I cant imagine what you are telling yourself in your own head right now in order to just sweep this under a rug so can justify not assimilating new information

>>17462406
So there’s no one that knows how to properly take care of natural gas facilities, especially in communities that have them? Is that what you’re saying? Maybe they should hold a meet and address this deficit in their community.
Would you oppose such a measure if it were brought to the floor?

>>17462415
ill make it simple ad narrow it down for you to one issue at a time.
how do these books address the population control that would be necessary to maintain a society that depends on a population that is small enough to handle without literally any sort of administration

>>17462426
>So there’s no one that knows how to properly take care of natural gas facilities, especially in communities that have them?
Probably not. Living next to a nuclear power plant doesn't automatically make you a nuclear scientist.
>Maybe they should hold a meet and address this deficit in their community.
Maybe they should get on with their lives and let people whose job it is to handle it handle it.
>Would you oppose such a measure if it were brought to the floor?
I'd never show up to such a retarded effort because I, like any normal person, don't care to play hall-monitor in a meeting all day.

>>17462418
Anarchism is the challenge to all unjustifiable hierarchies. It isn’t no hierarchies. There are clearly justifiable hierarchies, experts over novices, teachers over students, parents over children. Anarchism is a serious political ideology not a punk band, break everything chaos. It is more a series of family units.
I literally have dozens of peripheral and partial examples and millions who would prefer this kind of world if given the chance

>>17462415
>That the working class doesn’t know what they’re doing?
Literally Marcuse desu.

>>17462451
but you said here >>17461581 that it involves no corporate structures, bureaucracy, lawyers, police and government officials. what kind of hierarchies are these if there is no administrative officials or enforcers?

>>17462451
>It isn’t no hierarchies.
>It is more a series of family units.
so tribalism?

>>17462444
Why would they need to control this?
I do imagine the population going down a little globally. But say an area loses some people due to, I donno. Their meeting hall is built for 4000 and the population has shrunk to roughly 3000. If they can’t simply combine with a neighboring canton they’ll do fine with a smaller meet. In the reverse for a growing area. Just split up meeting hall if it gets ridiculously full. The two that were once one would be good neighbors and not compete in any nasty ways because DUH, no capitalism.

>>17462449
>Living next to a nuclear power plant doesn't automatically make you a nuclear scientist
No one works at a nuclear power plant? I’m going to need a source on that. You actually think Mister Burns runs the Springfield nuclear power plant? Ha.
> Maybe they should get on with their lives and let people whose job it is to handle it handle it.
Hahaha make up your mind. Of course they have some experts who work their. How far do they have to travel to get home? They really ought to live very close by
> I'd never show up to such a retarded effort because I
So if the power plant had a staff that lived miles away from another canton, you wouldn’t care, you’re not attending meets. Lets the safety of the place go to shit, you hope it has a meltdown
Good thing the majority go to the meet and fix this.
Anarchism established is nearly foolproof

>>17462451
Is this book any good? From a non-retard perspective.

>>17460235
Cringe!

>>17460297
I’m far right but I read leftist lit all the time. You guys do some great criticism but the solutions are just not there.

>>17462490
Bureaucrats, lawyers, politicians aren’t experts on anything but pushing people around
>>17462497
Yeah. Nice hu?
>>17462452
???

>>17462509
Check the YouTube for a rundown. I really like his theories

>>17462521
>Bureaucrats, lawyers, politicians aren’t experts on anything but pushing people around
Probably the single most retarded and naive thing I've ever seen you write.

>>17460797
Kek

>>17461155
I bet your parents died disappointed in you.

>>17462520
um youre far right, which means you dont care about political freedom, theres clearly a solution for you.

>>17462543
Nobody believes in political freedom, I’m just honest

>>17462508
>Why would they need to control this?
because the entire
because your entire premise rests on the maintenance of small communities that require no centralized administrative oversight, there's a reason you keep throwing around numbers like 4000
>I do imagine the population going down a little globally
why? what happens to these people that disappear? if things like housing are taken care of wouldn't that have a positive effect on fertility rates? if small communities have to be self reliant wont that give incentive towards higher fertility rates to help create more manpower like it has throughout all of human history before capitalist urbanization?

sending people away to a different community once yours is getting too big is not solving the problem, its simply kicking it down the line, the overall population of an area will still be growing and demand for resources and more complex systems to supply demand will still be growing

>and not compete in any nasty ways because DUH, no capitalism
why do you believe conflict cannot happen without capitalism? what happens when communities grow too large and have no choice to compete over resources?

>>17462521
>Yeah. Nice hu?
so you want to to recreate the exact same conditions that lead to capitalism?

>>17460235
>The more I mislead myself the more stupider I become

>>17462451
why didn't the anarchist communities of south east Asia survive?

>>17462572
southeast asia had anarchist communities?
Since when.
I dont think anarchist built those old temples.
She must be lying.

>>17461420
>Spoke to a few Ethiopian fascists ones, they were really based. They had very nuanced opinions on Fascist Italy as well, which surprised me a lot.
They mention any authors or historical figures? I'd be interested to read about those opinions

>>17462552
>because your entire premise rests on the maintenance of small communities that require no centralized administrative oversight, there's a reason you keep throwing around numbers like 4000
Well, I did answer your question then. The 4000 comes from an estimate James Herod made about a really large amphitheater with about that many people. Any more might get too confusing.
Though affinity groups of a hundred, fifty or a dozen can meet beforehand to prepare for the big meet. That’s recommended.

Less people would be born when things get comfortable and easy. Capitalism drove the population up because they needed more cheap labor, till the 1970s when we hit a labor surplus.
>same communities self reliant
Everyone does their best at that depending on their resources, but meets would address shortfalls in supplies and neighboring communities will rescue them. Much like now. No need for higher birth rates.
All your questions can be addressed at the meets. Join a local affinity group.

Oh if only.

>>17462555
This only gives us back a human communal capacity. How many names have you got juggling in your head and do you have their faces attached?
Cities can be alienating places and make us feel overwhelmed and lonely. Becoming a part of a canton and seeing them at meets is tribal. This won’t make us spear chucking cannibals.

>>17462572
STATISM.
It’s grip is as tight as ever, but I believe covid has set off a chain reaction which might be our chance

>>17462609
Butters check out that thread about the sexual revolution and oligarchy, since you don’t wanna respond to my real wage graphs

>>17462311
>>17462364
>>17462378
Not surprised. They claim to be the genuine inheritors or fascism today, and it seems like they are genuinely trying to copy the early futurist and blackshirts movements.

>>17462626
>real wage graphs
Why do you think civil rights has anything to do with wages? That rise in the 70s is right when there were women’s marches for an ERA to the constitution. Hmm?

>>17462634
Yep precisely the point: there's no conceivable way that real wage drops are associated with sexual degenrecay. There's either no relation or a relation between real wage GROWTH and sexual liberation [read degeneracy].

>>17462609
>Less people would be born when things get comfortable and easy
how are things going to be getting easier exactly in a society that has to be more self reliant? also there's no actual evidence backing up this correlation. why is is that prosperity and more comfortable living spawned by the agricultural revolution did not collapse birth rates?

>Capitalism drove the population up because they needed more cheap labor, till the 1970s when we hit a labor surplus.
the decline of fertility rates from the 70s onward as nothing to do with a lack of demand from capitalism, it has to do with economic factors which you are claiming to solve, thus fertility rates will increase

anyway, if you're betting on destroying fertility rates arent you trying to destroy the human race by extension? why would I want to take part in that?what makes you think enough people will take part in it voluntarily in order to keep the population down? and in the case where fertility rates DO rise, how does anarchism address the problem of communities growing?

>>17462684
Donno why you thought this in the first place

This is actually the real redpill.

All your life you are told that the more you read and the more you broaden your mind to new ideas, the more open you become.
If anything, reading in the last 10 years has done the opposite to me. It made me angry and bitter that literally everything I was taught in my 15 years of school is wrong.

Reading taught me that whites are unironically and in the most literal sense the master race. Women have no business holding jobs and positions of power. Hitler was basically right about 97% of the things he said. And we need some kind of major revolution or we will live in clown world forever. Just to scratch the surface.

>>17461420
Those ethiopians sound cool
Care to elaborate on their opinions?

>>17462694
Because I thought your thesis was that sexual degeneracy was caused by some capitalist "thumbscrew".

>>17462697
for what its worth, it does sound like it broadened your perspective and allowed you to explore ideas beyond your established preconceived notions taught to you through pop culture and the education system

>>17462697
Whites are getting completely memed on by Chinese and Jews. Not much of a master race, though I'll agree the last 1000 years was a pretty based run of it.

>>17462707
Oh yeah. I said complex reasons and didn’t go into it. Sorry. Later I mentioned it being used like an opioid.
Sex is good though. It’s also degenerate to be be without and to hate it and insist people do it only once per baby etc.
meh. Tired

>>17462415
>I could recite each page to you and you’d be asking for multiple sources every paragraph.
That's the sign of crummy philosophy

>>17460235
Anonymous posts on a Wuhanese Bat Cooking forum aren't real reading.

>>17462720
Chinks and kikes are successful because they are living within the framework of a white society and nations founded by white men. Once white people start becoming a minority, China will collapse because literally their entire economy is based on expoiting the west for profit and stealing our ideas. They are soulless and have no original ideas of their own, they are literal walking npcs. Once America collapses, China will soon follow, because its survival is dependent on our survival.

And Jews...well, let's just say people getting tired of their shit is not exactly a historical anomaly.

>>17462721
How so

>>17462508
>The two that were once one would be good neighbors and not compete in any nasty ways because DUH, no capitalism.
Are commies really this stupid? Do you really believe capitalism is the source of all conflict in the world? Do animals predate each other because of animal capitalism?

>>17462749
animals predate each other because of a lack of resources.
To secure more resources they claim territory.
And thus begins the vicious cycle that is private property.

>>17462771
Scarcity is the fundamental rule of existence. Which is like saying capitalism is the fundamental rule of existence
In that case, I wouldn't even disagree with you

>>17460797
le quèque

>>17462771
how do you plan on eliminating scarcity? especially since whatever abundance of resources we produce right now is as a result of capitalist modes of production

>>17462788
>especially since whatever abundance of resources we produce right now is as a result of capitalist modes of
well thats why socialism comes after capitalism.
People used to fight over a pig, now we can just go to the supermarket and get pork.

>>17462803
>People used to fight over a pig, now we can just go to the supermarket and get pork.
Which requires us to butcher pigs at a level never seen before, subjecting them to large levels of suffering. And we have to destroy the earth just to produce enough crops to feed everyone (which is not sustainable by any means). It's not going to last for long. As I just said, scarcity is the rule, not the exception, nor the big-bad-boss that we can somehow defeat in a material universe which is scarce by definition.

>>17462808
Crops just need minerals, space and sunlight if you think about it. Theres been discussion of making buildings with aquaculture to farm the veggies.
>Which requires us to butcher pigs at a level never seen before, subjecting them to large levels of suffering
If enviromentalists have a problem with it i hope theyre forced to become butchers.
Anyways i dont even trust communists with food production so id rather that farms stay private for simplicities sake.

>>17462838
What stops me from building a militaristic, Zeus-worshipping commune which conquers all of the others out of pure masculine energy and combat-drive? Will you genetically engineer everyone to be women or cowards?

It's inconceivable to me that someone would think war would not occur because private property is, at least theoretically, abolished. There is always more to gain from others, for example, enslavement. How could slavery be mass-produced in a post-scarcity environment? What if we want sex-slaves, and we're strong enough to take them from a nearby commune?

>>17462747
Catholic Church
4chan user base

Why are there so many pedophiles in the both of them? Sexual abstention has freaky results.

>>17462749
>animal capitalism?
Hahaha. Yes, accumulative currency and statism are the root cause of all the worst of human conflicts. It isn’t stupid to find these facts laying around in multiple disciplines all agreeing with the same conclusions

>>17462887
>Yes, accumulative currency and statism are the root cause
Holy shit you are dumb.

>>17462887
i have a solution to the incel problem.
Incentivize families to have more daughters.
What do you say buttercup?

>>17462520
Agreed.

>>17461934
You are hilariously retarded and egotistical.

Let me just say that the industrial revolution is the greatest thing to ever happen to mankind and showed that libertarianism works and the true power of the free market.

Ted Kasicskinki is a liar and an idiot.

The liberal mainstream narrative is lying to you in many ways. First off, they fill our history books with false knowledge about how bad child labor was during the industrial revolution.

First of all this is not true. Child labor became virtually extinct as soon as the revolution happened. It was a myth peddled by hysterical liberal moralists.

It was not public outcry or governmental leglislation that reduced child labor. These laws were passed decades after child labor had been abolished through market production alone.
The industrial revolution singlehandedly resulted in a reduction in child labor from 100% to 18% and kept falling afterward. Before the IR, children had to work or their families would starve to death. This is imperically proven.

By the mid to late 1800s which created the industrial revolution a massive increase in living standards for workers everywhere. It was true free market libertarianism in action. Yet liberals deny this and act like conditions were so terrible for workers. This is false. There is data that outright disproves it.

>>17462898
I think community building, improved relationship education and drawing the youth away from screens is a better answer.

Libertarians are the only ones who understand basic and advanced economics and history to actually see the truth on this topic. People who debate with them constantly get btfo.

Yes, driver's licenses shouldn't exist, roads should be privatized, the government should be abolished, taxation doesn't actually work in funding the government and is morally wrong, unions are evil, no real socialist revolt of workers can ever happen because it will be rightly squashed by society. U mad?

Markets and courts existed before the first states, so government is irrelevant. Ancapistan existed before and will exist again.

Go on and keep sucking the mainstream teat. The facts and logic are on my side.

Right-wing doesn't exist as it's described, it's just the natural state of a person. Almost all good poets, philosophers, or writers can be described as right-wing. "Left-wing" means either brainwashed by elite propaganda ("neoliberal") or actually and unironically mentally ill ("neo-marxist").

Can we get some red pilled books please ?

>>17460235
Reality has a right-wing bias.
>inb4 the pure unadulterated copium in response to this post

>>17462997
the natural state of a person right now is to be agaisnt the establishment

Democrats are Marxist

Read the Bible and Christian philosophy. Do not fall for the lies of scientism or liberalism. Humanity is not evolved from monkeys, the White Man is God's race. The one pure untainted human race that created all of civilization and expressed devotion to God. The negro is an apeman, the Jew a Reptilian Luciferian demonic spirit, and the Asian a Bug race.

>>17463028
Based and schizopilled

>>17461920
This is what you would need to do if you really wanted to curb co2 emissions. But leftists only use climate change as a rhetorical device and don't actually care about any of that shit so not going to happen.

>>17462745
>Chinks and kikes are successful because they are living within the framework of a white society and nations founded by white men

This is very true. And their common goal is to keep white men disorganized long enough to destroy their gene pool with "multiculturalism" and "migration replacement" etc. While neither group, under ANY circumstance, would allow that to happen to their own people. Clown World is becoming more and more a house of cards, meanwhile, more and more young white men are realizing their ancestor's successes and creations are being used against them. So there is hope, although very little action at this point. Good luck my based brother

>>17463075
if the environmental crisis is as bad as they say it is I honestly dont see how it can be averted without putting an end to international trade and outright war against any nation who does not immediately coply with environmental regulations that would further destroy their economy

The United States is a corporation not a country and has been since 1871. It is owned by London England and there have only been 17 legitimate presidents.

>>17460235
Every since I’ve started reading evola, I can’t stop working out and going for long walks in my local trails

>>17462697
You're special though. Most people, regardless of race, are pure followers. No amount of evidence will "wake" an NPC up. Whatever is mainstream, Jewish propaganda, materialism, degeneracy, whatever, the NPC will follow.

Get over your emotional issues, get strong and healthy, then find ways to help your people and fight in the greatest of causes. Good luck brother

>>17461724
Why do you recommend him?

>>17460235
same bro

>>17460297
we do, it's you that never read rightist stuff and never engage with us as peer.
We know your arguments they all suck.
You don't know ours and are disinterested In learning.
And this is why Fascism will win.

>>17463182
youre argument is that jews are out to get you.
What is there to read?

>>17463138
>>17462697

you are both closeted faggots and if you're older than 16 im fucking embarrassed

“Reality has a right wing bias” - Ayn Rand

>>17460911
you can't meme lol

>>17463182
I was a retarded right winger myself as a teen, and trust me the arguments aren't more advanced than what I could spew out as a 16 year old.
Reading any critical theory, filters most inexperienced brainlets who think they can jump straight in like their schizo blog posts about muh race realism.

>>17463194
no it's not my argument you little retard.
that's yours you just call them capitalists.
But then the REAL capitalists pay you good boy points so you just persecute petite bourgeoise
You have been doing this for 150 years

>>17463222
no, read more critical theory than you.

>>17463222
>muh race realism.
you pick the one thing that /pol/ are actually right about lmao.

>the gray man is a hallucination
>take the meds
>you won't be burdened by him anymore
>you can go back to a normal life
>he won't lurk in the shadows anymore
>he won't watch from under the floor
>the moon will come back to the night sky
>just hold still
>the torment will end soon

>>17463234
kek

>>17462312
Holy fuck this it hard lmao

>>17462332
>gets stabbed by paki who proceeds raping and breeding his daughter.
>carried to the hospital
>judge arbitrarily decides he has to be euthanized because stitching his stab wound is too costly lol
>as he dies the last thing is sees is the gay judge sodomizing his son and the same paki throwing acid to his wife's face.

The more I read the more I cringe at right wing ‘thinking’

>>17460252
This is what is supposed to happen, anon. Life is confused as well, the only mistake you can make is thinking you have it figured out.

>>17462887
the Catholic church has in proportion a lot less pedophiles than your vaunted public education system, it's just the medias only talking about them.
If the kind of shit that happens every day in the typical downtown school was made public everyone would rightfully homeschool.

>>17463318
how anticonformist and brave of you anon Chan
you truly are a rebel and an indipendent thinker and not an useful idiot for Goldman Sachs.

>>17463325
Anon, it's for you.

>>17463333
Checked

>>17462312
This is only due to the ills and ignorance of our time, hopefully a passing fad, but it reciprocate you, since I have learned of things that seem so implausible, yet are completely empirical

>>17463351
>since I have learned of things that seem so implausible, yet are completely empirical
Such as????

>>17463325
>than your vaunted public education system,
yeah but in public schools its based female teachers wanting to teach their young male students penises what magic they can do.

>>17463546
witches are never based

>>17460252
Only one ITT that actually reads

>>17461626
this is wrong, a very dedicated minority can make a very big difference. We have seen this play out with the jewish influence in the west

>>17460252
Yeah. Ignorance was bliss all along.

>>17462921
>>17462970
Lmao Cope Lolberts that your ideologies will only be kept within books and not actually enforced!

>>17460235
What have you been reading, OP?

>>17462235

>>17463325
Id say take your meds, but the lack of proper healthcare in the US means you probably never had any.