/lit/ - Literature

>>17345462
change the zeitgeist entirely or stfu

>>17345462
Maybe by posting totally awesome BASED and REDPILLED glitch’d out photoshops on a Mongolian yak milking forum XD~~~~

Unironically OP, the image you posted is so cringe, and belies such brainlet taste and worldview, that it belongs in an art gallery as an instance of post-post-ironic conceptual art. Thanks for that.

>>17345462
>degeneracy
What poisoned your mind and stopped you from learning about the world outside your narrow scope of understanding?

>>17345533
Look at this and tell me art hasn't become degenerate.

>>17345462
By reading actual fascists who've always been at the forefront of abstract art movements which your kind labels as "degenerate". Start with Marinetti, Evola and di Annunzio

>>17345543
You can easily extract meaning from this art, and yet you think it's "degenerate." But why spend the time writing out a few paragraphs about the context and meaning of the taped banana when you are just going to tell me to fuck off and stop deconstructing everything.

Even the OP image is stupid as shit because those types of statutes were painted with really bright and ugly colors. The white marble is historically inaccurate.

>>17345549
Reminder that Evola’s paintings are pure trash. Pathetic imitation of better Futurists.

>>17345543
BASED BANANA

>>17345543
Based ‘naner filtering /pol/ shitwits
>b-but muh e-entarte Kunsf
c o p e
o
p
e

>>17345462
Fashwave retroactively refutes every opinion on art from /pol/tards.

>>17345610
This
T. Fascist

>>17345462
>vaporwave
>”art should be meaningful”
Well that’s an interesting contradiction.

>>17345543
wow that's like all of contemporary art huh, AH YOU RETARD FUCK.

>>17345559
That was just the bottom layer of paint bro. Not op but come on man, no need to be disingenuous about it.

>>17345549
sorry baby futurism is just a shitty imitation of cubism, almost no visual fascist art is good.

>>17345462
So if I had a kid who wanted to become an artist I would stop giving them any sort of money or anything. Not because art is a bad investment or any of that bullshit fox news dad shit, but because I believe in them, and I know that to create something truly great they have to owe nothing to nobody, not even a latent subconscious dependence on a father figure. Good art comes from deep inside, it demands to be created, and it doesnt come from a safe environment, from strings attached to gifts and softness.
Art today is kinda like that. It is supported not by a diehard set of passionate creators and hungry seekers out of truth and beauty, but by a soft and sheltered environment where money comes from government and NGO associated funds and groups, promoted by the liberal apparatus we know so well. As such it conforms to the goals of these organizations- even the most apolitical is safe, constrained within bourgeois morality, annoyingly narcissistic, heartless. And almost none is apolitical, most is just blatant lame propaganda for whatever lame cause of the week.
But I'm a fuckin idealist.

>art should be [spook]

>>17345664
Doesn't even matter if it was painted beautifully back then, the fact is that the entire ideological perspective the OP is coming from is, as you say, disingenuous.

>>17345462
I've singlehandedly destroyed and nullified art and western civilization.
Sorry tradfags there is no recovering from this..

>>17345462
>Art should be meaningful
I agree, a lot. But art is one field in which YOU can make a difference. People complain all the time about how modern art sucks, and i am often inclined to agree with them. But looking backward is not the way forward. You are on 4channel, you have the time to learn drawing/painting or dabble in poetry or writing.

Stop acting like a victim. You have the power to create art that is the art the world deserves and needs. Do it.

>>17345687
what is the price for this masterpiece good sir? 50 million american dollars perhaps?

>books about extremist opinion I have picked up
>anyone know any books about thing I already agree with
>can someone recommend books defending my latest zinger against well-adjusted people
>looking for books about the made up thing I want other people to buy into

>>17345746
hahahaha

Word OP. We need to reinstitute renaissance standards and return to trvdition or whatever. See pic related for the good type of art

>>17345543
a fruit stuck to a wall is not degenerate

>>17345462
>be OP
>find a BASED fashwave image on /pol/
>haha this’ll show those /lit/ faggots
>post poor quality thread invoking a return to some kind of nostalgia-fantasy version of muh figurative representational art
>get mercilessly mocked by people who are must smarter than you
>leave thread in shame and don’t bother defending your braindead opinion
>ask mom to heat you up some hot pockets to make you feel better
just another day in the life of a /pol/ zoomer

>>17345803
Please post a bigger version of this, I’m fascinated by whatever I think is going on.

>>17345462
>How do we save art from degeneracy
You expose trash, and only consume wholesome art.

Patronage. In other words, there's nothing any broke faggot on /lit/ can do. If you happen to know somebody with $100 mil to throw around, maybe tell him to think about that instead of investing all of to make a lame ROI.

Please explain how marble statues of politicians are more meaningful than conceptual art, which by definition is art that centers the idea (meaning) over technical or aesthetic principles. Or is your definition of art just whatever your third grade history textbook called significant?

>>17345676
This is the lamest shit I've ever read lol. Almost every great art movement comes about in times/places where people are able to share ideas and cost of living is low enough they dont work constantly and have time to actually make art. Believe it or not we live in a world of human beings who can talk to each other not jack off tortured geniuses.

>>17345462
You say 'save art from degeneracy', but you can't actually articulate what you mean by it. A vast swath of the European oil painting tradition was dedicated to portraying wealth and wealthy people, and fostering the idea that material gain is the be all and end all, much like corporate hack advertising today.

>>17345803
none of the art makes me feel anything. at least in renaissance times they had that easy religiosity shortcut where they could just depict jesus and pepole would fucking feel it. JK Huysman's passage on Grunewald's Isenheim Altarpiece made me feel like shit cause I don't have any of that earnest feeling relating to symbology, all our symbols are brand logos I just don't care about anymore, nothing is sacred but me and stuff in my direct cognitive line of sight like my mom and shit

>>17345462
Roger Scruton - Beauty: A Very Short Introduction
Jose Ortega y Gasset: The Dehumanization of Art and Other Essays on Art, Culture, and Literature

>>17345856
Yeah I think you and I probably disagree on what is good art then. at a baseline people should at least be taking risks.

>>17345866
>A vast swath of the European oil painting tradition was dedicated to portraying wealth and wealthy people, and fostering the idea that material gain is the be all and end all
Simply wrong. It was dedicated to portraying western values of honor, nobility, masculinity and femininity, etc. Wealth is just something natural to someone with those virtues, which is why your view is flawed.

>>17345462
Here op, this is for you.

>>17345462
Meaning is a degenerate notion. Other animals don't require it, why should we?

>>17345880
Wealth is something natural to what virtues? Masculinity and femininity? I fundamentally disagree with the argument you're trying to make. Virtue is inseparable from the Christian traditions, which shuns and condemns the accumulation of wealth. I recommend reading 'Ways of Seeing' by John Berger, or at least watching the 4 part miniseries, available for free on YouTube.

>>17345880
Wow, you're a dumbass. We only have the most important pieces leftover from that era, the ones where people made significant aesthetic statements etc, we aren't admiring the opulence and shit nowadays.
99.9% of all the oil paintings of merchants and nobles were derivative and boring

>>17345900
Humans are more than animals you soulless materialist scum. Consciousness is divine and God is what gives meaning to life.

>>17345847
I couldn’t find a bigger file, but the painting is called Hanky Panky by Kent Monkman. Bonus points if you can guess who the guy in the middle is.

>>17345923
>Humans are more than animals
Prove it.

>>17345912
>Virtue is inseparable from the Christian traditions
Are you genuinely brain-damaged?

>>17345880
t. dilettante pseud

There were exceptions to the rule but the overall trend was celebration of gross opulence. Look at portraits from the time and the staggering amounts of wealth on show while much of the country toiled and suffered, despite being plenty 'virtuous'. There's a reason many of those portraits include the presence of fawning black servants, too - nobles at the time made a great degree of their money from siphoning natural resources, including gold, from countries they colonised and subjugated. How is that congruous with the idea their wealth was generated from virtue? Where are you even plucking these ideas from? Even oil paintings of animals at the time were centered around not naturalism, or the pastoral, but in placing animals in the context of material structures, showing them to be belongings and indicators of wealth.

>>17345933
An animal couldn't have made this.

>>17345955
do you only know like three paintings?

>>17345955
But an animal did, so that isn't proof at all.

>>17345880
I once thought of /pol/ zoomers as occupying a slightly (emphasis on slightly) higher rung on the evolutionary ladder than trannies and walmart shoppers. I’m not so sure anymore...

>>17345949
*virtue in the era of European oil painting was inseparable from the Christian tradition. Do you not even know the historical context in which the paintings were produced? Do you know what you're talking about at all? I'm beginning to suspect you've just glanced at a few Web pages, in which case I'm wasting my time. I encourage you to learn a bit more about the periods you want to talk about.

>>17345693
I don't know if you are reading this thread OP, but I will add the following. If you are unhappy about the current state of art, you have an image of what art should be in your head. Bring it out. Unleash it. Be creative. At the very least you will have art (whether literary, visual, or auditory) that you are proud of.

>>17345955
But one did (a human)

>>17345923
>>17345955
Not that anon - I agree with you, but not all traditional painting was divinely inspired - take the above discussion on the intense materialism of European oil painting, which is incongruous with the notion of the 'soul' as defined by the Christian tradition. So what makes a painting 'divine', or representative of the 'soul' humans are imbued with? What qualities do you look for? Who is the judge?

We don't need to have this thread every couple hours.

>>17345955
not /pol/cels with this painting again...

>>17345880
Wow, you’re just straight up retarded. I wish time travel was real so that you could get stranded in Victorian London and realize just how similar the past was to modern times.

>>17345970
guaranteed this is one of the other two

>>17345983
I guarantee you know nothing about those paintings, painters, or the context. The way you're talking about it makes it seem like you're watching a lot of youtube pundits and looking at google images.
Hey, if you're interested in art, get some books or take a community college class or whatever, you probably have a college or major city near you that might have a decent collection.

>>17345955
>MUH GERMAN ROMANTICISM
>Muh high res background
>Muh mousepad
>Muh dorm room poster
>Muh souvenir keychain
This is the best you’ve got, /pol/? Really?

>>17345880
You are an imbecile

>>17345983
>*virtue in the era of European oil painting was inseparable from the Christian tradition. Do you not even know the historical context in which the paintings were produced?
Do (You)? Which era? The one with all the classical Greco-Roman pagan scenery? The one with the voluptuous naked women? The one with frilly monarchs scowling from their thrones?

>>17346130
He’s finished, Anon. Show the kid some mercy!

>>17345846
Sound comfy ngl alas I'm too smart and well read to lead this lifestyle

>>17346146
He's got to read his Bible. There is a clear ban on icons and idols. All the great art is in spite of his supposed virtues.

>>17345543
>he got filtered by lou reed doing a gay voice
ngmi

Honestly, /pol/ just needs to be banned. Containment doesn’t work. /pol/acks are the most retarded people on this website, and they contribute nothing interesting to this board. They just spam Evola/ hipster fascist shit and pseud.

stop bullying the OP he's clearly 15 years old and you were probably worse than him at your age

>>17345543
This is unironically ten times better than the abomination
>>17345462 OP posted

Please, just go outside.

>>17346839
Desu at 15 I was reading Derrida, Nietzsche and Baudrillard and could discuss the history of art from the renaissance through the postwar era. Be better sweaty. No excuses for retarded zoomies.

>>17345928
Justin Trudeau

>>17345462
Roger Scruton

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHw4MMEnmpc

>>17345462
Here, an actual book recommendation that's relevant to the topic.

>>17346878
>No excuses for retarded zoomies.
This but unironically. Zoomers have infinite information avalaible to them. By 12 you should have already read philosophy up to Descartes at the very least.

>>17346897
Conservatives always like to talk about bringing back tradition etc then never really produce anything other than whinging on how nice it used to be.

Either shit, or get off the toilet

>>17346913
Didn't the pretentious owner of some mediocre facebook page write that? I vaguely remember seeing it before, and if I recall reviews were pretty mixed. (Not OP)

>>17345462
>art should be meaningful
How is a sculpture of some faggot playing a lute meaningful?

>>17346956
It was inspired by God and religion.

>>17346934
A lot of them have no clue how it was. They just have a partially informed notion of it based on a few anecdotes or (worse) ads from shit like the Saturday Evening Post.

>>17346895
Correctamundo

>>17346934
Progression and production of something new does not mean it inherently possesses goodness. Tradition itself is also not inherently good. Traditionalists and conservatives seek to conserve the old because they feel that it is contains this goodness. Else, you would see think that a conservative would want to regress to monke. Now of course this is a more satirical caricature of a traditionalist. But you must understand that we conservatives do not wish to conserve for the sake of conserving. Just as I am sure progressives do not want to progress for the sake of progressing. But instead we want to conserve because we feel that those ideas and customs of the past were right and orderly.

>>17346964
you're right, when will the west finally produce some art that is inspired by Allah

>>17347015
What exactly is goodness? A lofty ideal of what is pure, unfortunately, the world is complicated, and there a multitude of people who will not fall into rigid rules.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p93w7MpbZRw

>>17346964
where is that visible?

>>17347057
very insightful anon

>>17345559
>You can easily extract meaning from this art
Do you think because something has meaning that it's automatically good?

>>17345462
I don't know, contemporary art is kind of great right now. We're reaching some really interesting technical heights and, even in the traditional arts, things seem to be good. We could do better by saturating young artists in the western canon again, but ultimately I don't have a whole lot of qualms with art beyond the fact that there's too much being made, not enough appreciation, and everyone seems to have an opinion with their cherry picked complaints. A better question is; how do we give young artists a proper art education? And not simply slandering contemporary artists.
t. has an informal art education

>>17345543
It elicited a reaction from you. It's already greater art than some boring generic fucking sculpture that you'll forget about

Lately I've been becoming pro degeneracy. I think people should be allowed to do what they want, as long as they're not inflicting upon other people's freedom.

>>17347015
>we feel that those ideas and customs of the past were right and orderly
So the caricature is totally accurate then? Old thing good new thing bad. Conservatism is about preserving the old thing, which is good because you like it because you recognize it as orderly or right, which is just another way of saying it is good or beneficial (i.e. 'making good') for you.

>>17347085
This mentality is why civilization is collapsing.

>>17345492
baste

>>17347123
I would be prepared to believe this if you had any proof of this whatsoever. But you don't. You just say that because you dislike degeneracy, not because you've actually carefully looked into the conditions of the civilazation.

>>17347074
>Do you think because something has meaning that it's automatically good?
Not only that, but you can extract meaning from fucking everything. I can extract meaning from watching a dog take a shit on the sidewalk. It could symbolise that other guy's opinion.

>>17347123
>civilization is collapsing
good

>>17347142
>>17347123
>civilization is collapsing
It's not though.

>>17347135
What else could it be?

>>17347057
Well your previous point was what I was addressing. Of course 'what goodness is' remains in question and usually pertains to an individual's own most basic foundational beliefs. It's only important to point out that conservatives believe traditions are inherently good. Their reasoning for that is irrelevant since my post was trying to explain why conservatives or traditionalists think the way they feel.

>the world is complicated, and there a multitude of people who will not fall into rigid rules.
I'm not sure what you're addressing here. The fact that people don't agree is self evident in politics and public discussion. It would seem to be a contradiction however, to say that being anti-conservative is good.

Just let it all rot.

Accelerationism.

>>17347163
Deeply immoral post.