/lit/ - Literature

>>17260871
People unironically don't bother, anon. I would rather rid my children from dealing with such bs.

Retroactively refuted by Epicurus 2300 years ago.

>>17260877
Because is easy just to cope, instead of thinking.

>>17260879
Where or who?

>>17260882
I can definitely understand someone who doesn't feel like having children, anon. It is reasonably scary and a lot of things can go wrong even if you do your best. But those ideas are plain bs, you would know that if you read some Philosophy. Most philosophers dealt with the issue of suffering and evil in a fairly elegant manner, it is not that hard. You seem the one to be coping instead of thinking.

>>17260871
But I just saw Jordan Peterson and Matthew McConoughey refute him on Peterson's podcast...

>>17260871
anti natalists are like hardcore theists in every way of practice. you cannot refute them, refuting them explores no value in your life life and adds none to yours, nor anyone else's--nor to art or academia as a whole, and none of them won't accept critique because deep inside they're already dead.

Being human is the sum of all experience plus your conscious and self. it is about what you make of life, suffering is as shallow as bliss without reflection, and reflection takes effort. without effort to add something somewhere, that is not a list of all bad things, leave out all the good or summising that clearly just a bit of bad makes all goodness irrelevant, there is no way of proving anti natalism and no way of disproving it as a valid viewpoint. things which are so neither able to be proven nor disproven are illogical and are irrelevant to talk about because there can be no third-person perspective to look at things beyond immediate experience, which is so subjective it cannot be considered to judge anything.

Why bother arguing with antinatalists? Either their arguments are unconvincing and you remain unconvinced, or their arguments are convincing and you become an antinatalist.

>>17260921
Based

It's easy to agree with a proposition that does not in any way challenge your lifestyle or modes of thinking
this goy's main argument is as reductive and transactional as pascal's wager. a four-square compartmentalization of one of the most primal, emotional, and irrational decisions a human being can make. i am totally unconvinced both of his argument and the integrity of his psychological fettle

>>17260965
They are built on top of stupid premises, anon. As in all suffering is bad, so you can't justify any good that can come out of it.

>>17260909
Point me to some of this points, I'm open to read about it.

>>17260877
>a childless future
>the next generation will thank us for it

>>17260995
There are plenty, anon. What is usually your thing? Spinoza and Leibniz are my particular favorites, but they are reasonably weird to most people.

>>17261001
It is not everyone who buys into that shit, anon.

I think the ones coping are the anon here, they like to read books about life of suffering and all that jazz, but when someone says something like "hey life is pretty hard, why we don't put another being on this life?" And they go full cope, "nnnnoooooo think of the childderinos!!!!"

>>17261020
hey, put down the mountain dew for a sec and learn to think

>>17261018
Do they address the questions of life being hard?

>>17260879
>refuted
Epicurus admitted the primary goal of life is to avoid fear and pain. Implying it would be better to not have that problem to begin with.

>>17260909
Most philosophers deal with it with supernatural claims, appeals to morality or just mental gymnastics.

>>17260965
>>17260973
Personally I am not out to convince you to not have children. Saying it's immoral implies there is a moral way to live, and there isn't. Our species is a lost cause and just needs to die out, and it will. You can have kids if it makes you happy.

>>17261026
Not an argument, just cope. Learn to have a discussion.

>>17260871
I am becoming a sperm donor to spite all of you

>>17261027
What are you talking about, anon?

>>17261034
ironic considering you have yet to write one legible, complete sentence

>>17260871
>you were born anyway and you will be born again whether you like it or not
refuted

>>17261036
hope you got them aryan genes baby. they only let in 6-feet or taller, muscular and IQ-tested

>>17261036
Kek, pitty your children to have a midwit father.

>>17260871
Coulda woulda shoulda this masturbatory pontification can eat my ass

>>17261050
Holy fuck, you're not that bright.

>>17261056
The midwits shall inherit the earth, apparently

>>17261036
imagine antinatalists bombing sperm clinics the way pro lifers bomb abortion clinics.

>>17261069
That would be an interesting concept for a story Anon

>>17261061
>Reddit

>>17261052
Not him but will I have a chance of getting accepted?

I am Indian, have good genes, tall (5’10), and am handsome

>>17261111
>Indian

It's over, bro, indian are viewed as smelly, rapey, ugly, people.

>>17261118
That is whitey cope

>>17260871
here's a paper published by benatar himself called still better to never have been which lists some refutations and his supposed rebuttals but he seems to concede too much ground so it makes him seem a little wishy washy

>>17261032
> muh all suffering is bad
Refuted by a /fit/ illiterate retard that probably doesn't even know English wearing a 'no pain; no gain' sweat shirt.

>>17261134
>>17261134
https://www.scribd.com/document/380355912/Still-Better-Never-to-Have-Been-A-Reply-to-More-of-My-Critics-David-Benatar

gonna have to register but its pretty comprehensive. if you're looking for an actual scholarly discussion instead of shit posting on /lit/ everyday you can find it here.

>>17261118
yea white 4chan users are viewed much more favorably

>>17261156
Read Nietzsche and get over this bs. This is like a shitty version of religion.

>>17261165
I mean Benatar is a legit philosopher I just think OP hasn't put the time in to actually read scholarly critiques of the views he espouses and should do so before making the same goddamn thread everyday.

>>17261163
You’re being sarcastic but yes, unironically

>for some people, putting a child on this world is not view as a blessing, but a curse

>Lit go full cope with that fact

Why?

>>17261067
If only

>>17260973
>They are built on top of stupid premises, anon. As in all suffering is bad, so you can't justify any good that can come out of it.
How to spot a trust funder or a suburban white kid
>inb4 I worked 5 hrs a month in high school

>>17261073
yea you could make a shitty tom clancy rip off based off of that. a group of anti-natalists who bomb fertility clinics discover an ultra-secret virus used by the CIA to sterilize the vietnamese and they plan to use it on the world and it's up to JACK REACHER to stop them

>>17261206
Anon, I almost fucking killed myself twice or thrice, dealt with I don't know how many years of depression, saw a bunch of fucked up shit that made me almost completely lose my faith in humanity.

It is mainly about being worth it. I would be fine dying today, as in the overall sum of the highs and lows is probably positive. And that is the case with most people. Quit bitching about it.

>>17261242
Oh and I also got abused some times, got a historic of heavy drug usage, and I'm reasonably fine. Don't tell me that life is too hard to be worth anything.

>>17261242
>I almost killed myself twice or thrice

I don’t know why people say this to make it seem like they had a hard life. It’s clear you’re just an attention seeking little bitch. If you wanted to kill yourself you would have killed your self.

>>17261180
by whom? i see western born indian dudes with white girls all the time now man while im still alone. virtue signaling white bitches love em. we're doomed m8

>>17261267
Whatever, anon. You say like working is something unbearable. It is fine when you are getting paid. I would unironically think it is something reasonable if you are a slave or something, which you are clearly not.

>>17261270
By women who go to sperm banks.

>>17261300
yea and the majority of people who have trouble breeding are white. so of course they'd choose a similar ethnicity. it be weird for a white couple to have a black baby. but overall it aint the same.

Just breed another human to suffer, just do it!

>>17260871
Benatar is a fraud

>>17261348
The majority of women who use sperm banks are actually single women

>>17261408
Cope.

>>17260871
I see this book successfully refuted in every single /lit/ thread about it. All you do is say "suffering isn't necessarily bad" and the foundation upon which the entire book rests is destroyed.

Hold up let me spend my time in a book arguing against the purpose of existence. Why are psueds so obsessed with wallowing in their misery and turning it over like a stone instead of just offing themselves?

>>17261422
He literally wrote this shit

>>17260871
https://www.abolitionist.com/anti-natalism.html

>Benatar's policy prescription is untenable. Radical anti-natalism as a recipe for human extinction will fail because any predisposition to share that bias will be weeded out of the population. Radical anti-natalist ethics is self-defeating: there will always be selection pressure against its practitioners. Complications aside, any predisposition not to have children or to adopt is genetically maladaptive. On a personal level, the decision not to bring more suffering into the world and forgo having children is morally admirable. But voluntary childlessness or adoption is not a global solution to the problem of suffering.

>Yet how should rational moral agents behave if - hypothetically - some variant of Benatar's diagnosis as distinct from policy prescription was correct?

>In an era of biotechnology and unnatural selection, an alternative to anti-natalism is the world-wide adoption of genetically preprogrammed well-being. For there needn't be selection pressure against gradients of lifelong adaptive bliss - i.e. a radical recalibration of the hedonic treadmill. The only way to eradicate the biological substrates of unpleasantness - and thereby prevent the harm of Darwinian existence - is not vainly to champion life's eradication, but instead to ensure that sentient life is inherently blissful. More specifically, the impending reproductive revolution of designer babies is likely to witness intense selection pressure against the harmfulness-promoting adaptations that increased the inclusive fitness of our genes in the ancestral environment of adaptation. If we use biotechnology wisely, then gradients of genetically preprogrammed well-being can make all sentient life subjectively rewarding - indeed wonderful beyond the human imagination. So in common with "positive" utilitarians, the "negative" utilitarian would do better to argue for genetically preprogrammed superhappiness.

>>17261420
single white women. same shit. you're missing what's happening across the western world because you're too busy coping. the white race is doomed m8. even the sperm donor taboo will be gone then it'll just be white bitches with pajeet tyrone babies while white dudes are gonna be jerking off to bbc breeding compilations. its fucked

>>17261445
Go back to prepping your bull and raising your wife's son

>>17261458
Which is why I’m trying to do my part in becoming a sperm donor. I can have my own family while desperate white bitches can impregnate themselves with my seed

>>17261458
>the white race is doomed m8
No it isn't. The breeder transition is inevitable.

https://www.unz.com/akarlin/breeders-revenge/

>>17261486
the last hope of the white race is a group of religious zealots who are so inbred that they'll basically just render themselves sterile in a few generations anyways. maybe benatar is right. just end it now.

>>17261481
jackin off in a cup to save the white race while tyrone fucks white girls on the regular. i bet they'll give you interracial porn to watch as you jack off at the sperm clinic lol. its over m8. we lost. accept that benatar is right.

>>17261206
Suffering IS pointless.

Escape your battered wife syndrome.

>>17261445
and that is bad why?

>>17261967
what about people who like suffering? masochists and such who get joy from pain? should they be allowed to live?

>>17261654
>they'll basically just render themselves sterile in a few generations anyways
You have zero understanding of genetics if you unironically think this will happen.

>>17261111
>Indian
>handsome

What a fucking waste of quads, pajeet

>>17261267
Found the 1 digit IQ

>>17261451
>How to end suffering?
>Just become something that is not human, bro.

Basically just change what it means to be a human, so the definition of suffering change to, and , in the end benatar still right.

>just accept suffering, bro! It's part of living!

>>17260879
Fucking stoic. I’ll right words down, and crawl under them. Like a worm seeking shelter underneath the rock-cope!

>>17262605
Unironically this

>>17260871
>>17260879
actually it was retroactively refuted by plato, like 99% of pseuds

why should i care about other people's suffering?
sounds like morality to me.

This thread was made by someone with very very very very low IQ. I don't know how he even learned to tie his shoe laces. The idea that someone with an IQ this low actually read and finished a book is simply ludicrous.

>>17262914
Probably someone depressed, anon. But the OP is probably being paid to shill this shit in here to milk money out of people like that.

>>17260970
cringe

>>17262792
Retroactive means it took effect after the fact. What you mean to say is preempted, but you're too stupid to know these words.

>>17260871
If he's alive and wrote this book that's refutation enough.

>>17263735
It is not, because he doesn't know what is up on the other side. And there are probably people living who are going to miss him.

>>17261486
imagine thinking that religion is gaining a foothold in this country
whatever racial advances are made by the Mormons will be countered twicefold by the taquito invasion

>>17260871
It’s a pathetic mans excuse to not do anything of value

>>17262221
masochists enjoy pain. Pain is not equivalent to suffering, it is a mere subset of suffering.

>>17262605
there is no transcendence, no sublimity, no triumph as complete and transformative as that cultivated by a succession of sufferings. This vertical variety of emotion is essential to a well-lived life

>>17263751
>he doesn't know what is up on the other side
Wrong, he's just scared because the Monstars from Space Jam are over there

>>17260871
The Asian guy who killed himself refuted it. Antinatalism entails promortalism.

>>17263830
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zdgzkqsy_z0

I dont know what its like to not have been born though. How can i compare my existence with anything?

>>17260871
refuted in every single thread, including, once again, this one
but you'll repost it anyway

>>17260871
>you shouldn't have kids because life is mostly suffering
>actually, my life is very enjoyable
>no it isn't
yawn