/lit/ - Literature

>>17105684
>philosophy
>sign of decay

>>17105684
boredom was a sign of their decay

>>17105698
classical greece was worse than homeric greece. philosophy is in fact a sign of decay. it is the secularization of theology after all

>>17105684
I, for one, welcome our twink overlords.

>>17105719
The penetrated is always the violated, the oppressed, the exploited. In a purely symbolic meaning, he is the ultimate proletariat.

>>17105684
These guys don't look like twinks, they look like faggots

Three in from bottom left is not a twink, and probably hasn't been one since the last millennium. Wonder how many of the models were told the NYT were going to out them as faggots.

>>17105722
You have it backwards.

The supreme aristocracy of the penetrated is fueled by the works of lesser men.
Stirring the mud of your desires and Agape.

>>17105713
who says theology is a sign of prosperity?

>>17105751
The infailliable whel of history.

>>17105755
you can't just disregard philosophy just because it tries to find a different path to great answers than "muh magic daddy on the sky makes right"

>>17105766
His point is not that philosophy is wrong, just that its rise is a sign of decay.

>>17105773
Decay from theological values? He did mention theology.
I am just saying the opposite, that the rise of philosophy is a sing of prosperity. Trying to understand the world through our human experiences is what makes us human. Thinking humans that is.

Before a flower blooms it must first grow. Barely able to break ground at first. Then madly in a rush it fights the life around it for nutrients so it may produce the best blossom it can. The beautiful stage is fleeting, yet it is all done so another may bloom again in its likeness.

>>17105783
what prosperity? material prosperity? intellectual? if it were a sign of intellectual prosperity it would have not degenerated into ethical philosophy and sophistry. we had the crisis of the bronze age then a reset. it begins again with homeric greece which decays into archaic which decays into classical. and then another collapse. see a pattern? the "prosperity" of the bronze age only led to a collapse

it must be known that perceived "prosperity" and "progress" are signs of decay too

>>17105815
Make a thread when you've figured out how to build a stable fluxless society nobodys ever thought of that before i bet lmalol.

>>17105825
i do not waste my time thinking about utopic ideals. why would i do that?

>>17105815
You've got it the wrong way round, buddy. A society improves through its transitions from homeric into archaic to classical. Society collapses after the classical period precisely, not because it is past its prime, but because it has reached its highest virtue.

>>17105815
so what is prosperity and progress to you?

>>17105840
Greece had a good run and without thier literature and philosophy you would lack the sufficient knowledge to ruminate on the topic of this thread. That is all.

>>17105858
no. you are inverting the order. the highest virtues are attained in oral traditions --- which homeric greece had, not in written. they start to write because of decline (also of mental faculties). i read a lot of thinkers who reflect on cultural collapses and i do not know any who puts classical greece as the peak of iron age. the collapse always happens in a declining stage. few years passed since socratic philosophy and epicurus and the stoics

>>17105863
no

>>17105859
there is only spiritual progress. and spiritual progress is correlated with material poverty

>>17105887
how much weed do you smoke?

>>17105892
i dont do drugs. you are on lit. do you only read fiction? why are you concerned with societal progress? if i thought my feelings could shape the world i would become a dumb resentful manchild marxist dreaming of an ideal world

>>17105881
On a side note, what do you think of the Aboriginals? They've maintained an oral tradition for their entire existence. Are they spiritual gurus?

>>17105908
>do you only read fiction?
rarely
> why are you concerned with societal progress?
Because ,unironically or not, we live in a society.
I am part of a society and so are you. Improving it is in the benefit of us all. Yes, your feeling can definitely change the world because they motivate your actions.

>>17105908
theory turns into praxis
every political action is rooted in ideology and theory. ideas change the world and progress them. ideas become action

>>17105939
we cannot prevent the current crisis nor the next collapse. all we can do is be charitable towards our neighbor and seek salvation. ideology feeds on resentment and destroys the mind

it has been a downhill ride since the 1200s

>>17105953
>eating from the trashcan of ideology

>>17105953
>ideology
>praxis
>action
ngmi

>>17105684
From there to pederasty, two decades.

>>17105970
I argue that yes we can prevent it, but only through collective, motivating effort. If there is a collapse to prevent that is.

What changed in the 1200s?

>>17105713
Okay, Friedrich.

>>17106002
worldview shifted from spiritual to integral, as in archaic greece. then modernity came 3 centuries later.

no societal collapse has ever been prevented. you are speaking of collective, but keep it in mind the collective of the past century has produced the worst wars in history and the most atrocious, inhumane, massacres. after all the 'enlightenment', age of reason etc. you think we are progressing?

>>17106020
i dislike nietzsche just as much

>>17105815
Theology brings peace, happiness, and productivity to the common retard This oils the machine and brings prosperity. Simple as

>>17106223
The common retard doesn't read theology. Quit LARPing faggot.

>>17105684
If they lost that stupid look on their faces they would just be average malnourished guys, just stop acting gay.

>>17105783
Philosophy is great when practiced by the elites but when the plebians start doing it things really start falling apart. Plebians really need to do what they are told to do for things to work out alright.

>>17106243
Yes, they don't because they assume they know all the teachings intrinsically but believe they are following them. That's the point, faggot

why are secularists unable to admit their mode of thought has been the most dehumanising and violent in history? its a literal fact. you can start talking about philosophy once you accept a quest for truth instead of justifying the vacuous nature of your own age

>tfw I'm a twink

>>17106420
Why did the popes of the church start more wars than all the secularists together?

>>17106453
They obviously didnt though did they?

>>17106459
They did you historically illiterate faggot. Fratricidal wars were almost always religious.

>>17106465
Popes causing more wars than all secular wars combined. You think that is a historical claim. Wow.

>>17106474
It's an objective historical claim.

>>17106479
Ok so you can prove that then? Because you realise how fucking retarded that claim is right?

>>17106453
Go back to rėddit and never come back

The LARPing ITT is insane. This can't actually be healthy for you guys.

>>17105713
Most of the major philosophers were secretive about their ideas concerning the nature of ultimate reality and God. So much is said. And many of them were the heads of cults to Muses or other such divine entities with initiatory rites and codes of behavior. The literature makes explicitly clear mention of esoteric and exoteric texts.

>>17105684
Twinks are so fucking disgusting

>>17106481
Read some history book

>>17106482
Go back to r/tradfags this is not your safe space. Also fuck your kike god and his son of a whore.

>>17106491
yeah nobody has rational reasons for differing opinions to mine, they all just pretend

>>17106506
thank you enlightened rational thinker, I will read history book

>>17105713
>Archaic Greece
>Theology
Someone is ignorant of at least one of these subjects.

>>17105684
To many of them have posture problems

>>17105684
yes

>>17105729
But you repeat yourself

>>17106255
It’s plebeian, you fucking plebeian

Why is a normal body weight considered "twink", go to any non western country where people aren't fat and this is just the default body everyone should have.

>>17105783
>Trying to understand the world through our human experiences is what makes us human.

this already is existentialism

>>17107745
t. twink

>>17107756
t. fatass

>>17105713
>classical greece was worse than homeric greece
How would you know?

>>17107745
Modern media destroyed mens self image. If your not 6ft+ and ripped/big ur a bitch dyel twink.

>>17107763
further, europeans are more prone to 'twink-like' behavior, such as being the bottom during anal sex

>>17107768
>muh media, muh self image
Cringe and cucked

>>17105684
They killed Socrates just because he was asking questions and challenged accepted beliefs. This threatened the very order and foundations of society.
I say, who gives the shit about the foundations of society? I want to ask questions. Sapere aude, bitches.

>>17105751
The most stable and prosperous societies were all religious with small hints of secularism.

If you abandon religion altogether in favor of secularism you get what you currently see in overwhelming democratic cities/states in the US.

>>17107805
That's just a spurious correlation. Most societies throughout history were religious, regardless of prosperity, so obviously most prosperous societies would be religious. Tell me how believing in gods makes you rich and not trade and commerce. Manna from heaven?

>>17107805
Everything is fine in the "democratic cities" you brainwashed mongoloid

>>17107828
>people fleeing California to Texas

LMAO

>>17105684
Well I mean it could be sign of stagnation. Generally that's what happens when a country becomes too successful. They were certainly at the top of their game. As soon as human beings stop working hard to survive all sorts of crazy shit happens. Decadence is the end result in many cases. Every time you see a lot of decadence society teeters a bit. People stop caring about doing important things like having kids.

>>17107831
>a couple super rich guys moved their official residence to a state with no income to avoid having to pay anything on an upcoming big payday

as much as i'd love to see california fail, it's not gonna happen, also forever problem sf bay has with lack of housing due to nimby shit, texas has the opposite with insane sprawl due to no zoning at all, both suck, just stay in nyc like a sensible person

>>17107682
that's just the normal back curvature that is hidden in most people by layers and layers of fat

>>17107768
Exactly, "twink" is what you get when you're 1: not a fatass and 2: not a gym goer. It's completely normal, basically the "default" body type

>>17107828
>>17107846

No they're not retard. Grew up in NYC, moved, came back. It's shit and inhuman compared to the small Florida town I was living in. NYC is not even good for status seeking.

>>17107850
i hate short guys because they're always telling you to "stand up straight!", i'm like maybe for you squeezing every last half inch out of your petite frame is important, but i'll just stay relaxed even if i lose an inch, thanks for the concern tho lil buddy

>>17105684
It's a cycle. You can't really reverse it. Things start afresh, mature and then decline. Greek philosophy was immensly valuable for future generations. The same is going to happen with the West soon, future generations and cultures will take what is useful from it and discard all the excess.

>>17107872
>short guys because they're always telling you to "stand up straight!",
short guys would never want you to look even taller than they are lmao

>>17107878
i have never had someone who wasn't short tell me to stand up straight

>>17107826
Religious societies (read Christianity, Judaism, Budism etc...) have a moral social contract that allows them to have the necessary stability to progress. I don't disagree with you since there are multiple bad examples. But you cannot deny that overwhelming religious communities (where all share same religion) are more stable than the opposite.

>>17107881
"Every short person I've ever met has told me to stand up straight"

The fuck planet do you live on

>>17107903
learn to read chudlet, i didn't say every short person says that, i said the people who say that are always short

>>17107846
Your green-text is factual wrong. Go look up the statistics about how many people moved from California to Texas and/or other red States.

You have to be delusional if you think that they are all like Rogan or Musk.

>>17107903
I am always surprised by how many anons on the literature board have such difficulty parsing basic sentences

>>17107764
I was there, reincarnation.

>>17105684
What the fuck is wrong with their posture

>>17107876
If I had to predict what gets appropriated out of West by the next culture or what survives it, I'd say Christianity and human rights (though not to the extent currently defined). I'd imagine imagine financialization and scientism get dropped. Not sure about democracy surviving in the same form.

>>17107912
I can smell the cheetos and autism through my screen

>>17107912
Jordan Peterson literally wrong a book chapter on standing up straight

>>17107962
>projecting poor dietary habits

if you hadn't eaten so many cheetos as a child you might have grown taller, sad

>>17107928
It's Christmas eve and I'm drinking alone. Can I get a break?

>>17107978
No

>>17107770
Ah here we see it

>I-I'm not a homo, don't even suggest it! You're the homo!

>>17107975
Poor little incel :(

>>17107745
>>17107768
Twink has lost its original meaning. What it actually means is a young homo with effeminate features like an androgynous face, luscious hair and not very muscular or fat body, which the older, more masculine gays lust after.
Twink doesn't mean "skinny guy".

twunks are the only acceptable twinks tbqh

>>17107802
>I say, who gives the shit about the foundations of society?
t. man who sits in immeasurable comfort on the foundations of society

>>17107805
modern religion and pre-modern religion were very, very different things, and comparing them is entirely pointless. in the present day the various corruptions of the church are spread into corruptions of government instead; education has become it's own mini-religion, as has science. one of the key tenants of religion has always been consensus. this is true for all religions, but is especially visible in the west.

education and science require, or in fact are predicated on, an appeal in direct opposition to consensus. i might mock
>>17107802
for saying he just wants to ask questions, but this is what science and education are designed for.

but in our modern age science and education have becomes slaves to greater ideals; namely universal comfort (and to some success; to be fair). we are educated not to ask more educated questions, but to labor in more complex jobs. we guide science with premeditation and consensus (not new, but especially in this modern age we do it to a new extreme) rather than allowing science to simply exist (without a need for guidance or to be guided by).

in the end religion today is just an empty husk of all it was half a millennia ago; and its sweetmeats have been divided among other organisms.

>>17105684
no; ancient greece was OLD by the time the bulk of our historical data comes into play. it was STAGNANT. it had gone through so many revolutions in all aspects of life, that compared to its contemporaries it had no relative way to progress. they had written every book, thought every thought, and taken every action in the smaller world they lived in, and they had no rival to drive them on to discover new things; they had no awareness of the unknown unknowns yet to come. exhaustion killed them.

this thread is also bait though. what a silly article and what an arrogant article. idiocy is not a sign of anything except idiocy, but god damn people haven't changed nearly enough in the last three thousand years. maybe that's for the best, but it's easy to understand how the greeks grew so bored with the same fucking discussions over, and over, and over again. what else can you become as a whole save nihilistic?

>>17105684
Absolutely yes. Socrates was the pinnacle of moral and spiritual decline of Athens. He wasn't what doomed it but he symbolized everything wrong with Athens at that time.

>>17108490
there's actually a p comfy book on audible plus called "rome enters the greek east" which really goes into detail about the decline of greece

>>17107859
>Florida complaining about New York
Literal shithole criticizing another shithole.

>tfw no twunk bf

>>17105684
I want the one on the top right. The rest I would refer to an orthopedic medical specialist to see what can be done about those spinal deformities.

>>17105684
>good posture has left the chat