/lit/ - Literature

Start with pic related, he has very convincing arguments.
As for nature being God, and God being nature, I don't know if I'd go so far, but man was definitely supposed to live in nature, instead of whatever the fuck this is that we live in now.

Consider the following anons:
If you were born in pre-industrial society, your life would be a hell of a lot shorter and more difficult, but that's precisely where you'd find meaning and purpose. Your life's path would be set for you, if your father was a smith, you'd be a smith. If he was a farmer, you'd be a farmer. And the work you'd spend your life on would be both meaningful and fulfilling. If you tried to NEET you'd starve to death.
Philosophy and nihilism are the sanctuary of those who don't have to work to live.

>>16941315
The Spell Of The Sensuous by Abram is pretty good

>>16941315
(1)

>>16941315
(2)

>>16941315
Technology is nature too. Everything is part of nature.

>>16941315
(3)

>>16942944
>Anprim
>includes Kaczynski

Whoever made that should be pipe-bombed.

>>16941315
not philosophy but Wordsworth

>>16942990
what is he then?

>>16942995
This and also all of the 19th century American poets.

>>16942959
personally, reading is the ABSOLUTE last thing i'd want to do to get insight on nature. just go into nature if you want insight on it so much. but reading seems hypocritical to me.

>>16941315
Ok, go live in nature then and die in 2 weeks lel.

>>16943003
Kaczynski is more of a neo-luddite than a primitivist.
He is against the industrial revolution while the primitivists are against the agricultural revolution. He has a huge influence on anarcho-primitivism since both ideologies are opposing large scale technologies.

>>16944402
I was under the impression Ted was anti-agrarian, thanks for correcting me anon

>>16944311
If you don't want to read then why did you make this thread on a reading board?

>>16944482
Because I feel a slight dose of anger from doing so and I enjoy it.

>>16941315
First there was god, then god created the physical universe. God isn't anything physical. God created light and all the physical matter in the physical universe but God isn't anything physical. Living breathing bodies are vessels for souls. This verse will help you have a better idea of nature and god.

And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

God wants us to populate every square mile of the planet and live in harmony with it and take care of the earth and animals. Our souls could've have been given animal bodies but we were given human bodies so we were born to be caretakers of the earth.

>>16941315
>Nature is God, God is nature.


NO —THAT STATEMENT IS FALSE.

>>16944987
Prove it lel.

>>16944845
>>16942959
You cannot have ecology and a transcendent creator God. It literally doesn't work. Aquinas knew what he was doing when he came up with this, and was pretty open about it.

>>16941315
>Nature is the only way to cure the current plague of depression
Based and forest pilled

>>16945526
>You cannot have ecology and a transcendent creator God. It literally doesn't work
Not that anon but explain how you reason this.

>>16945591
Aristotle posits a world wherein there are somewhere between 47-55 Prime Movers, multiple, the number comes from empirical observation of the heavens. These things are made of a special substance. They're constantly putting causality into the world. They always have been. They're uncreated. The universe, that is, literally everything including the Prime Movers, is uncreated. All things derive their ultimate causality from the Prime Movers. The bargain bin Ken Ham Walmart-Theology you get on /lit/ often posits that all causality goes back to one single thing, like a pool cue striking the first ball, but this incorrect, all causality goes back to the Prime Movers multiple times. A "Causal Chain" can peter out and die. Continued existence is based on them constantly inputting causality into the universe, which they are part of (again, they're made out of a special substance, which is why they don't affect each other, or themselves).

This poses a problem for Abrahamics, who explicitly believe that there was a single point of creation. Jews, Muslims, and the Ethiopian Orthodox just say Aristotle was wrong (of course he was, he was a gentile). Aquinas, however, chooses a different path, positing a creator God who created the world system that we exist in, separate from himself as he is beyond time and space. The Prime Movers are thus the angels put in place by God.

Thus, all things are solely in relation to God. While all things are in relation to God ("orbiting him", if you like), all things are not equally spaced from him, however. The broad goal of Christianity is thus to get as close to the divine as possible. Nature is farther from the divine than man (according to Aquinas), and was created by God explicitly as material to be used by the Jews (and later, Christians). We know this to be the case because scripture tells us so.

Nature can be used as a tool to get closer to God, however. It can be used to appreciate his power. Its beauty is a pale comparison to God's own, but of course God is the most beautiful thing possible so we can use it as a rough approximation. But it is still farther from God than man, and the ultimate point of Christianity is to leave nature behind and get closer to God.

>>16945753
A common dunk christfags on here make on Pagans is that our ancestors worshiped rocks and trees. This is completely ludicrous, they didn't, they'd find the idea preposterous, Thor and Zeus and Jupiter like oak trees for whatever reason, that doesn't mean that they're made of oak or whatever. This is, however, a very old criticism of gentiles from Jewish sources, and it traces back to Rabbinical commentary alleging that the obviously servile and stunted nature of gentiles can be observed by their worship of rocks and trees and their ancestors instead of Yahweh and the Jewish People.

The separation of God, the creator, from nature, the created, creates a fundamental divide. God is higher than trees. Trees are, again, just a tool to be used to get at God. That doesn't mean go cut down every tree, of course, but rather that logging should be done sustainably, until God says it's time to end the world, at which point, yeah go ahead, cut down every tree, they'll get destroyed by God anyways.

This poses two problems: the first is that no matter what, your Chriso-Luddism is going to be swimming against the prevailing currents. Eventually, you WILL get accused of idolatry, of worshiping the trees. And, if you're putting the trees above "Getting closer to God", you ARE committing idolatry (within the Christian definition). The second is that the moment someone adopts some bizarre heresy (Social Justice, atheism, whatever) but doesn't ditch the idea of transcendence alongside it, you're going to get people who don't even believe that nature displays God's beauty. This is actually a really big problem in the West, this "misplaced transcendence", and it leads to all sorts of bizarre crap like "Simulated Reality" hypotheses, Trannyism, and transhuman.

>>16945753
>>16945807
I didn't mean to type this much, so tl;dr eventually, God will want you to cut down the trees.

>>16944987
why are you screaming

>>16941315
Look into panpsychism, especially Rupert Sheldrake. There's a video on Youtube where he suggests that the Sun is conscious and we can communicate with it. It sounds crazy but it's actually worth listening to.

Personal blog: last month I rented a house on the beach and I spent a lot of time barefoot, looking directly at the Sun (when it's low enough on the horizon) for half an hour or simply appreciating the presence of the pine trees all around me, and the feeling of sand/ground under my feet. Sometimes I was so happy/grateful I almost cried, even though normally I'm always somewhat depressed. The loneliness that's been with me since childhood, was completely gone. The experience of reconnecting with nature is incredibly powerful.

>>16945526
>>16945753
Ecology is the study of nature. God created the physical world, we're souls with physical bodies in the physical world and we use those physical minds and bodies to observe the physical world and take notes. That's ecology.

>>16942946
Technology didnt come about on its own

>>16944402
Is Ted basically a proponent of the Amish lifestyle?

>>16946131
You know damn well that's not at all what OP was after.

>>16946588
The guy said ecology and god can't coexist but they can.

>>16946588
>>16946701
Was he saying worshipping god and worshipping nature as your god can't coexist? Because obviously. My post wasn't saying that God and nature can both be worshipped. I was just saying god is God and gods will is for us to have kids and take care of the earth so OP of the thread can find a way to do gods will and appreciate nature.

>>16946257
Yes, very much so (although hes spiritually indifferent). As far as im aware he is opposed to post-industrial technologies (specifically ones that require society wide systems to be maintained) and not the very existence of technology. Any anons more well read on Ted feel free to correct me

>>16941337
>If you tried to NEET you'd starve to death.
No, not really. If you were supposed to be a NEET, you’d be an aristocrat. At the end of the day, that’s what most of them were, with few exceptions.
The problem is a lot of people are wealthier than most wealthy people back in the day and they do not know what to do. If you’re born a warrior but have no wars, you’ll feel a lack of meaning. Born a merchant with no need to commerce, same thing. NEET shit is for aristocrats who knew how to create meaning out of meaningless shit. Their rituals are theirs.

>>16941315
You're getting closer. It's all mind, fren.

>>16941315
>I'm starting to believe more and more that the only thing that truly matters is nature.
Yea—
>Nature is God, God is nature.
WTF? No. Nature is real, gods are figments of the imagination. Memes only.

so true lmfao
anyone who abstracts deities outside natural phenomenon is straight up brain dead lmfao

>>16948153
You can never be based until you accept the existence of God

I want to live in nature but I also want to make mad money.

>>16946997
Ted isn't necessarily against returning all the way to hunter gatherers lifestyle not just pre-industrial, but he argued that small-scale technology can't be forgotten the same way large scale tech can. Any local society could make their own plow or even smelt their own metal, but small scale societies wouldn't be able to build a refrigerator so that form of tech is much more apt to be forgotten.

>>16941315
Read Spinoza! Joyful, princely, natural Spinoza!

>>16948168
> welcome to anon's nature reserve we got
> rivers
> trees
> some big rocks
> cute woodland animals
> but we also move units and rack up some fat fuckin stacks doing it
I'd visit

>>16948167
I am already the most based for having been my own.

>>16946145
And you think nature did?

>>16948194
omg butterflky is BTFOing chuds again. like imagine taking anything before your existence seriously and as truth LMFAO

>>16941315
Emersons Essays are obvious.

Murray Bookchin was political eco philosophy. It's interesting.

Ella Costners Smoky Mountain Poetry was pretty good. I actually found out about her, because we passed her grave on a hike I did recently.

>>16948211
I do. The imaginary is still just memes. They owe their existence to past minds, not the other way around

>>16948251
OMG butterfly gets another one in her sights and BTFOs them LMFAO

>>16941315
Ralph Waldo Emmerson "the Rhedora" poem
Mary Oliver "new and selected poems"
Sara Teasdale

and other poetry really explore all the feels, and expereinces that one has in regards to nature

>>16942938
Fuck I had a /lit/ class at uni that was pretty much this chart.

Thinking about getting "DEUS SIVE NATURA" tattooed on my arm. Based? Would be pretty minimal and the only tattoo I'd have.

>>16941315
You are approaching Pantheism, soon you will advance and see even more.

>>16948204
Yes.

>>16942946
The distinction is also part of nature and is thus; from the mind of human genesis or not?

>>16949120
All things, I suppose, sprout from nature, while nature itself did not come from some other thing?