/lit/ - Literature

>>16925586
At least he didn't fuck kids.

>>16925586

At least he read the Bible.

>>16926132
You do not need to be literate to follow a religion.

>>16925586
Pro-tip: no-one has dominated their vices.

If you're following a sect that says you have to dominate your vices through sheer willpower or else you're going to hell, well then I've got real bad news for you.

P.S. 4chan is a vice

>>16925586
>A certain sinner 500 years ago realized he is set free by Jesus Christ alone
>Catholics say this man turned to the dark side
What a bad argument. Implying we aren't all sinners.

>>16926139

And must not be, per Catholicism.

>>16926155
You blaspheme Christ by saying this.

>>16926155
(checked)
I'll choose heresies for 500.
>If you're following a sect that says you have to dominate your vices through sheer willpower or else you're going to hell, well then I've got real bad news for you.
What is the Pelagian heresy?

>>16925586
Luther was interested in salvation. Whether he was able to dominate his vices enough so he wouldn't feel shame while confessing to his homosexual priest is irrelevant.

>>16926174
X to doubt fren

>>16925586
>Fr. Hesse
Literally who?

>>16925586
This is a polemic against Luther, not the core beliefs of Protestanism. Not all Protestants are Lutheran.

>>16926195
Was Christ not a man?

Was he not sinless?

Even from the Protestant perspective your statement doesn't hold water.

Where do Catholics get the pope doctrine from? I know Jesus gave Peter the keys but where does it say/imply that Jesus was creating some eternal office of the pope as opposed to Peter just having the keys until he dies?

>>16926237
All the traditional reformed Protestants believe in the 5 Solas, a distinctly Lutheran theology. Idc about what some non-dom thinks, whatever stance they have is completely removed from the Christian tradition.

>>16926238
>>16926155
Obviously I meant "no-one of us", Christ alone dominated his vices, that doesn't mean you or I are capable of doing it by just using enough willpower

>>16926264
Well I suppose if Peter decided to use those keys to create an office with his role for the church..?

>>16926264
>>16926290
Catholics:
>muh Matthew 16:19 (wherein Jesus tells Peter he will give him keys)
>No, reader! Do not read Matthew 16:23 (wherein Jesus literally calls Peter "Satan" on the very same page)
>No, reader! Do not read Matthew 18:18 (wherein Jesus gives the same key-powers to all his disciples)

>>16926264
Read articles 2 and 3 of Irenaeus's Against Heresies. All the best sources that support the Catholic faith in it's authenticity as the true faith can be found in the writings of the Church Fathers.

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103303.htm

>>16926315
>muh Church Fathers
"And do not call anyone on earth your father, for you have one Father, who is in heaven." (Matthew 23:9)

>>16926323
Do you call your dad by his first name? Retard.

>>16926358
Oh, snap. You sure showed Jesus Christ! /s

>>16926155
This meme is based and true.

>>16926159
You can't be a sinner if you give money to the Catholic church.

>>16926365
1 Cor. 4:15; 1 Jn. 2:12; Acts 7:2; 22:1

Were the apostles going against Christ by describing themselves as fathers, or describing fathers other than Christ here? Such a midwit take on Matthew 23:9, removing the context doesn't make it correct. Based on the verses I just gave, true Christianity understands that biological fathers and or spiritual fathers participate in the one fatherhood of God

>>16926392
Fine, so quote the apostles against heresies. Irenaeus doesn't feature in any of the verses you referenced.

>>16926238
>>16926273
Yeah, nobody assumes when you're talking about sinners that you are adding Christ to the list.

>>16926405
You're too low IQ to participate in this thread, sorry.

>>16926423
>Then the little children were brought to Jesus for Him to place His hands on them and pray for them. And the disciples rebuked those who brought them. But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not hinder them! For the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” (Matthew 19:13-14)

>>16926442
So you're admitting that you have the brain of a child? lmfao

Also imagine comparing the mother of Christ to a demon. Good luck explaining that one.

>>16926155
>4chin vice
Wrong, it's a medium, or is so only if you want to argue that polluted air's a vice, which misses the point. Milton beckoned one go out into the world, to test one's virtues, one's courage as well as one's kindness. That can be done right here to a certain degree, anon, but if done so exclusively the vice is all yours, not the board's.

>>16926469
Mary is a whore

>>16926469
>So you're admitting that you have the brain of a child? lmfao
One's pride will bring him low, but he who is lowly in spirit will obtain honor.
(Proverbs 29:23)

>Also imagine comparing the mother of Christ to a demon. Good luck explaining that one.
Little children, keep yourselves from idols.
(1 John 5:21)

>>16926498
Mary is not considered a deity in our faith. You retards act like the Bible appeared out of thin air and wasn't compiled by the very people you deride.

>>16926535
>>16926510

>>16926535
Catholics don't even understand the basic concept of sin. The Bible teaches that all humans are sinners and that it is only through the grace of God that you can be redeemed (Romans 3:20-24) yet Catholics believe that you can be saved through good deeds (Canon 9), Purgatory (CCC 1030) and outright bribery (CCC 1471).

>>16926155
you shall know them by their fruits.

>>16926579
>yet Catholics believe that you can be saved through good deeds

James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. (Even used the Protestant's favourite version of the Bible here)

>inb4 you cite several verses stating otherwise

Sola fide denies the importance of true repentance outlined in the Bible. Repentance is not just "accepting Christ as your saviour", it goes further, it means for one to "turn from their wicked ways" (2 Chr 7:14).

>>16926643
No one is saying you shouldn't do good deeds, just that good deeds won't earn you a spot in Heaven. You only get to Heaven in spite of your deeds, not because of them. No one deserves a spot in Heaven, it is Jesus' sacrifice that allows you to go there.

>>16926643
>>16926667
Also it's funny that you ignored my criticism of indulgences (which the Catholic Church still officially supports) because you can't justify it.

>>16926680
Indulgences as Protestantism views them is an overhyped myth that doesn't hold any similarity with reality.

>>16925586
Zoom zoom

>>16926535

>>16926702
This is from Vatican.Va, literally stating that you can get sins removed by giving money to the Catholic Church.

>>16926725
>whose guilt has already been forgiven
You forgot to read that part, my illiterate friend.

Somebody post the charts that anon provided some time ago

>>16926710
Can't debate, just states his position and insults the other person.
>>16926358
>>16926423
You hit the nail on the head lol.

>>16926680
Literally watch OP's video, it breaks down the myth about indulgences.

>>16926741
Do you not know what a Temporal Punishment is? It's suffering in Purgatory for your sins unless you are rich enough to pay the Church. You are literally paying money to avoid punishment for your sins.

>>16926606
Catholic fruits: indulgences, inquisitions, crusades, and the latest: Pope "I love Muslims and Gay Sex" Francis
Protestant fruits: salvation, faith, the KJV, the music of Johann Sebastian Bach

>>16926751
See >>16926753.

Temporal Punishments are heretical and the ability to bribe the Church to avoid them is even more heretical.

>>16926759
>Catholic fruits: indulgences, inquisitions, crusades, and the latest: Pope "I love Muslims and Gay Sex" Francis

You forgot idolatry lol.

>>16926741
According to Catholics being forgiven of a sin doesn't mean you won't be punished in Purgatory. Indulgences are a way to skip Purgatory (if you can afford to pay, of course)

>>16926763
Yes I can see that you're the same mouth breather that wrote the other post.

>>16926753
You're replacing the temporal punishment in Purgatory in the form of temporal privation on Earth. And the Church does not only concede them for money, pilgrimages and things like that work as well. You don't have the ability to judge heresies since you're a heretic yourself, that would be like the straw in the eye and etc.

>>16926759
>"I love Muslims and Gay Sex"
This should be "I love Islam and Gay Sex"
Of course the Christian should love Muslims (the people), just not their mistaken and ungodly ways (Islam)

>>16926800
Luther and Muhammad have more in common than you think.

>>16926797
Any policy which makes forgiveness easier for richfags than for poorfags is obviously blatantly false, unbiblical, and against everything Christianity stands for
>pilgrimages and things
all of which are considerably easier if you're rich

>>16926807
Yes, they were both sinners with no hope of dominating their vices through sheer willpower, and instead totally dependent on the grace of Christ to forgive them despite their not deserving it

>>16926795
Nope. Even Catholics think you are wrong.
https://www.catholicweekly.com.au/vatican-extends-time-to-obtain-full-indulgence-for-purgatorys-souls/

>>16926814
Other than the slurs this is 100% accurate.

>>16926814
The amount of money to be given varied on the individual, and in many cases no money had to be given at all. But keep believing in the big lie to justify your heresy.

>>16926859
>The amount of money to be given varied on the individual, and in many cases no money had to be given at all.
How can you justify any money at all? How can you justify avoiding divine punishment through bribery? Just admit that you are wrong.

>>16926814
Easier if you live in the fucking way of pilgrimage nig.
And is not like you don't deserve to be punished.

>>16926859
>be sinner, dying on the side of the road
>thank God, a catholic priest happens to come along
>mere minutes to live
>the priest pores through your detailed financial records and statements and carefully studies them in order to determine how much salvation is gonna cost you
Don't forget the tip

>>16926867
It's not bribery you fucking retard, it's a donation according to one's state of life in order to maintain the upkeep of churches. Even Protestant churches practice tithing.

>>16926867
>How can you justify any money at all?
Again, you don't need to pay anything, just stop lying.
>A Plenary Indulgence... may be gained (under the usual conditions) when the Rosary is prayed in Church, in a family group or in a religious community. Also:
>Five (5) decades of the Rosary must be prayed continuously.
>The prayers of the Rosary must be prayed vocally and one must meditate upon the Mysteries of the Rosary.
>If the recitation of the Rosary is public, the Mysteries of the Rosary must be announced.
>A Partial Indulgence...
>One may gain a partial indulgence for the Rosary's recitation in whole or in part in other circumstances.
This applies as well for other prayers, and pilgrimages as I was saying, the bribery thing is one of the options that the protestant ignorance (tautology) takes for only one excluding the others and very often misunderstands.

>>16926883
Not how indulgences work but continue to use stupid strawmen

>>16926903

>>16926859
Acts 14-23
14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15 The two went down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit 16 (for as yet the Spirit had not come upon any of them; they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus). 17 Then Peter and John laid their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. 18 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money, 19 saying, "Give me also this power so that anyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit." 20 But Peter said to him, "May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain God's gift with money! 21 You have no part or share in this, for your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent therefore of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and the chains of wickedness."

>>16926903
We don't tithe to avoid punishment. Money cannot keep you out of Hell/Purgatory.

>>16926909
>We don't offer bribery to get out of hell
>Actually we do offer bribery but it doesn't count because you can do other stuff too

>>16926927
1) Indulgences don't get you out of hell, you fucking macaque
2) Yes. You make the strawman like ""hehe paying for salvation!!" when is only one of the 100000 options and doesn't even pay salvation! But you lie, lie and lie.

>>16926927
It's not bribery, you are just persuading someone to act in one's favor by a gift of money.

>>16926920
Again, the money given for the indulgence was not a prerequisite.

I don't want people to get the wrong idea. Even though Catholics are guilty of idolatry and bribery, it is important to remember that protestants also are sinners. We are all sinners (except for Jesus Christ, who alone did not sin), we all have incurred debts which we can never hope to repay, and we all depend on Christ to forgive us our debts, as we have forgiven our debtors. Whether we be clean-cut Bible-loving protestants or depraved pagan Catholic perverts, we all are lost without the cleansing blood of Christ.

>>16926953
>Indulgences don't get you out of hell, you fucking macaque
But they do get you out of Purgatory, according to the Catholic Church
>Yes. You make the strawman like ""hehe paying for salvation!!" when is only one of the 100000 options and doesn't even pay salvation!
It's literally paying for salvation. If one of the 100,000 options your religion has for salvation is bribery you have a corrupt religion.

Prots really call themselves Bible lovers and believe in sola scriptura but don't even read the original koine greek

>>16926963
True. No amount of bribery will compensate for the fact that I am a irredeemable sinner.

>>16926985
I tried but it's all Greek to me.

>>16926963
The perverts are the protestants that commit all kinds of sinful acts safe in the knowledge that they are "saved" regardless.

>>16926978
YOU'RE ALREADY SAVED YOU MONKEY. Purgatory means that you're on the way to heavens. Stop being a liar.
>>16926912
this is simony, two different things that your ignorance won't distinguish.

>>16926999
>commit all kinds of sinful acts safe in the knowledge that they are "saved" regardless.
Matthew 7: 3-5
“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

>>16927007
>Purgatory means that you're on the way to heavens.
So you admit that rich Catholics get to Heaven faster than poor Catholics?
>this is simony
Congratulations, you figured out my point lol. Indulgences are Simony.

>>16927014
Never said I wasn't a sinner, but never will I believe that my faith in Christ somehow negates all of my sins. I could never be so arrogant.

>>16926999
Calling Protestants perverts is funny considering all the Catholic pedophiles-priests who have been exposed lol.

>>16927029
>my faith in Christ somehow negates all of my sin
That's literally the point of Christianity.
1 John 1: 7-9
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

>>16925586
>When did /lit/ realise that Protestantism is just one big cope?
Isn't that the whole point with religion? Especially Christianity which pretty much is a desperate attempt to cope with the fact that the messiah was killed and humiliated instead of becoming king of jews. Everything they put so much faith in meant nothing. So they refused to give up their faith and pretended that the execution was really a victory.

>>16927029
It doesn't negate your sins, rather it makes you forgiven of your sins.

Read the Parable of the Unforgiving Servant (Matthew 18:23-35). When Jesus speaks of the servant owing ten thousand talents, you have to understand, ten thousand talents was a ridiculous, hyperbolic, impossible number. That's like the entire GDP of the nation. There is NO WAY the servant could EVER pay back the tiniest piece of it. The king forgives the servant out of grace, and not for any other reason.

>>16927021
>Most canonised Catholic saints come from religious orders
>Many of these saints would have taken vows of poverty

What did the protestant retard mean by this?

>>16926358

Not him but no, I do not.

>>16927055
The Catholic needs more idols.

>>16925586
Feels good to not think I need the fuckin Torah to be saved lmao. Watching christians duke it out over who are the true sons of abraham is hilarious

>>16926997
Welp guess the Chinese translation will suffice
#ChristLover#SolaScripturadespitenotbeinganywhereinthebible

>>16927063
vows of poverty are only meaningful if you're rich to begin with, lol.
you think if someone homeless dude announces he's gonna take a vow of poverty, the catholic church is gonna give him the time of day?

>>16927086
>not believing that Jesus already foresaw all attempts to corrupt His words
>not realizing Jesus crafted His words in such a way that all such attempts will only strengthen them in the end
Do you even faith, bro?

>>16926264

I asked them a while ago why would Mary, John, or Judas not be likewise "succeeded" given that they pertain to Jesus in an equal or greater Metaphysical way. It didn't seem that they even thought of the question to begin with. My God.

>>16927075
based. if the jews are right, then all gentiles have to do is follow the noahide laws.

>>16927062
Did the servant assume that the king would forgive the servant of his debt before their meeting over the settlement?

>>16927122
The King promised him as long as he tried to not sin and got baptized the King's sacrifice would save him.

>>16927115
Actually the Catholic church is very cunning. They do what I call the "double falsity, one easy, one subtle". They combine two falsities, one of which is blatantly wrong, and the other of which is much more subtle. This way, everyone will rush to counter the easy one, thereby implicitly granting the harder one without even realizing it.

The easy falsity: the ludicrous idea that Jesus instituted the papacy as an office for Peter and his successors

The subtle falsity: the underlying assumption that Peter was in any way the father of the Catholic church in the first place

Everyone counters the easy falsity because it's so obviously wrong, and the Catholic church insidiously wins because people don't even realize they're implicitly admitting the subtle falsity

>>16927021
>So you admit that rich Catholics get to Heaven faster than poor Catholics?
>>16926909
Again, you can pray and get an indulgence. You're embarrasing yourself.

>>16927115
We don't put the apostles on the same level as Christ.

>>16927147
>Q: So you admit that rich Catholics get to Heaven faster than poor Catholics?

>A: Again, you can pray and get an indulgence. You're embarrasing yourself.

So that's a yes, right? You can pay to get to Heaven faster.

>>16927160
But you put them above every other human, which is false.

>>16927136
You're rebelling against a historical fact. Tell me, if Christ founded a Church on St. Peter, and the successor of St. Peter is not the pope, where are the legitimate successors of St. Peter? DO you seriously think Christ would have founded a Church to die within a few generations?

>>16927184
>Tell me, if Christ founded a Church on St. Peter
He didn't, at least not in the Bible he didn't.

>>16927175
In the sense that they have been given authority by God to lead the flock. Abandoning the apostolic tradition is what led to over 20,000 protestant denominations. Wouldn't expect satanic revolutionaries to understand this though.

>>16927184
Do you or do you not believe that Christ rose from the dead after three days, and that "all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to" Christ (Matthew 28:18)?

So then what the hell does the church need Peter for? It is the church of Christ, not of Peter!

>>16927168
Pray, not pay. Man, this is some next level of tergiversation, you guys have no sense of shame.

>>16927193
>He didn't, at least not in the Bible he didn't.
HAHAHAHAHAHA. You people are not real man. You cannot be real.

>>16927208
If God wanted everyone to walk in lock-step like you're implying, then explain the Tower of Babel

>>16927212
So you can't pay to skip Purgatory? Is that what you are saying?
>>16927219
Show me in the Bible where the term "Catholic", "Pope", or "Purgatory" shows up.

>>16927237
Show me the verse where the term Protestant, Sola Fide or Sola Scripture shows up.

>>16927223
Yes I'm sure God wanted his people to form 20,000 different churches all in disagreement with one another to varying degrees but united in their aversion to Catholicism. This is your brain on freemasonry.

>>16927251
>Sola Fide
That one is easy.

Titus 3:5
He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Galation 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Ephesians 2: 8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

>>16927270
Better to have 20,000 churches than one church that doesn't obey the Bible.

>>16927270
Hey bro, I'm not the one who deliberately confused the tongues of man so they would form 20,000 different cultures all doing their own thing in disagreement with one another. That's God who did that (Genesis 11:7). Sounds like you have a problem with God's mysterious ways, bro

>>16927296
James 2:24 debunks sola fide more precisely than any verses that could be argued as being in favour of sola fide. Keep coping.

>>16927296
Not a single mention of any of the terms. Try again.

>>16927317
Deeds are important, but they don't get you into Heaven. Jesus's sacrifice gets you into Heaven, you can't work to earn a spot there.

I am on the fence but to this point I understand that Catholicism has a lot of unnecessary features and some arguably pagan features. However the idea that anyone can pick up the Bible and call themselves a preacher/reverend is troubling to me. IMO Catholic culture > Protestant culture in terms of intellectual and spiritual professionalism for the lack of a better word. That said the truth is the truth and I guess I'll figure it out one day.

>>16927310
Sounds like your a freemason devil worshipper that put's all cultures and religions on the same level of validity.

>>16927329
Sola Fide means faith alone. You understand that the Bible wasn't written in English, right?

>>16927270
If God wanted His people to have a single unified church, he would have just left them in Egypt where they were all quite unified under the Church of Pharaoh. Basically not much different than what the world would be like if Catholics had their way

>>16927270
1 Corinthians 1:10
>I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.

Have you ever read the Bible?

>>16927348
sorry meant to reply>>16927310

>>16927336
The best way for you to discern the truth is to read what the early Christians believed and taught.

>>16927336
>anyone can pick up the Bible and call themselves a preacher/reverend
Some of the greatest Christian Preachers were just random people inspired by the Bible. John the Baptist was a hermit, Peter and Andrew were fishermen etc. You don't have to be a rich or powerful person to become a preacher, although obviously going to Bible college helps.

>>16927340
Ah yeah I'm sorry. So it seems that it appears in James 2:24, but condemning it.
>So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do, not by faith alone

>>16927348
Thanks for proving that protestants are in error precisely because they are not united in the same mind and judgement.

>>16926035
Obesity is correlated with that that's rather ironic. Also, Luther was a cumbrain unable to abstain so he's more likely to do that than a Roman catholic priest.

>>16927355
>>16927376
whoops missed this one

>>16927348
>>16927355
Matthew 7: 15-16
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

>>16926155
>Pro-tip: no-one has dominated their vices.
C O P E

>>16927393
>false prophets
Like Luther or any of the founders of 2000000 protestant sects?

>>16927373
Again. You should do good deeds to get into Heaven, but good deeds won't earn you a spot in Heaven. Only Jesus can do that.

>>16927404
No, I was thinking of the guy who accepts bribes for salvation.

>>16926155
>137 replies
>22 poster
Samefag protestant replied to himself several times in this post. Kill yourself. Your inability to cultivate virtue is a sign you're purely wicked and your self justification is a mark of reprobation (as iterated in the sunday sermons ot Fr. Hunolt). You should unironically be burned alive for telling people to cope with their vices which leads to ruin even in this life.

>>16927404
You realize that Catholicism has sects too, right?

>>16927408
How is that any different to what Catholics believe exactly? Do you think Catholics believe that good works are enough to get you into heaven, regardless of faith? Man protestants have spent over 400 years arguing with a strawman lmao

>>16926155
>Pro-tip: no-one has dominated their vices.
*blocks your path*

>>16927432
Proverbs 29:23
One's pride will bring him low, but he who is lowly in spirit will obtain honor.

>>16927433
>>16927404
>yfw you realize there are literally Catholic sects in New Mexico that include the psychedelic drug peyote in their rituals and ceremonies

>>16927436
>Do you think Catholics believe that good works are enough to get you into heaven, regardless of faith?
Pope Francis literally said that a few years ago.

https://charterforcompassion.org/understanding-our-differences-and-similarities/pope-francis-assures-atheists-you-don-t-have-to-believe-in-god-to-go-to-heaven

>>16927437
Please don't provoke the protestants into spitting their venom at the Mother of God

>>16927437
[citation needed]

'As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and blessed are the breasts that nursed You!” But He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”' (Luke 11:27-28)

>>16927481
In Luke 1:47 Mary referrs to God as "my Savior". If she wasn't a sinner she wouldn't need a savior.

>>16927473
He is a heretic, traditional Catholics do not take him seriously.

>>16926273
christ had no vices because he wasnt tainted by adam's sin

>>16927507
If your church is ran by a heretic maybe it's time to leave.

>>16927473
Why don't you open the Catechism and read what it instead of making this clickbait bullshit?

>>16925586
thank you for the informative video op, good post

>>16927504
>If she wasn't a sinner she wouldn't need a savior

What source informed you this?

>>16927526
You are most welcome anon

>>16927532
The definition of "savior" lol.

>>16926035

FPBP

>>16925586

All cults are cope, and in that sense it's ridiculous to judge one better than another. Still, an amusing species of cope in one particular cult is that an historical group of incels who literally don't reproduce (in general) style themselves as "fathers" >>16925586

>>16927511
Kinda makes the whole "temptation in the desert" thing seem a little anemic and pointless.

>>16925586
This is the dumbest shit ever, almost no one in this thread knows what Luther meant or read him.

>>16927522

Look up Sedevacantism, its Catholics that are not a part of the Vatican II sect.

>>16927437
>>16927481
>>16927532
Is Mary even mentioned in any of the epistles? If she's such an important part of Christianity, why would e.g. Paul never so much as mention her in passing? Hmmmmm, sure gets the noggin joggin'

>>16927504
What is modesty

>>16927563
Catholics have been coping for 500 years because Luther convinced half the Catholic Church to leave. Exquisite.

>>16927569
So Catholics aren't united like >>16927270 said?

>>16927555
Wow you're so cool for not having similar beliefs to other people anon, how can I become a free thinking individual like you?

>>16927590
That's why sedevacantists are schismatics dude.

>>16927160

How does this relate to the question?

>>16927578 #
Don't criticize their fanfic dude, they take it real seriously.

>>16927437
>>16927481
>>16927501
>>16927504
>>16927532
>>16927552
Big oof

>>16926503
Cease thine blasphemy, heathen.

>>16927136

Indeed.

>>16927555
samefag again

>>16927590

Neither group considers the other Catholic. There can only be one true Catholic faith. Protestants consider other Protestants Christian despite their differences.

>>16927481
They are already blaspheming by accusing her of vice.

>>16927184

I would assume the premise is from the top-down and "immanent", that is to say not even the gates of Hell shall prevail against it, never mind anything else, not from the bottom-up and "transcendent", that is to say everything but the gates of Hell shall prevail against it. Not that it matters much, since the Catholic Church is an even worse candidate for the latter than for the former.

>>16927433
The Eastern Catholic churches are in full union with the Roman/Latin Church, they're only different rites, not different sects.

>>16927557
was he at any point actually tempted though?

>>16926035
actual reddit snark comment

>>16925586
>now by indulgences!

>>16927635
Nope lol. There's at least 2 of us.

>>16927642
See >>16927504

>>16927507
He is the Catholic church, get a new church or suck it up. What happens after he nominates his sucessor?

>>16926365
This meme makes Catholics based. Heretics, profligates, blasphemers and other severely scandalous people SHOULD be burned at the stake and christ himself said as much.

>>16925586
What Luther meant with "faith alone" is that no one deserves a place in heaven by his own doing, it's instead God that takes mercy on us and forgives us for our sins. Faith is not some performance that you have to keep up your whole life and then you're a good person and deserves heaven. No living man can be completely free from sin and you're deluded if you think you can conquer sin or something by yourself. Also - as if Catholics during this era were capable of "dominating their vices". Leo X was known as a very hedonistic pope.

Mark 10:18:
>"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.

>>16927691
See
>>16927580

>>16927693
Remember that time Jesus burnt Zaccheus at a stake for being a sinner? Or that time he mocked the thief on the cross next to him?

>>16927504
There are two ways to save a person who has fallen into a hole.

1: Physically lift the person out of the hole
2: Make it so that the person NEVER FALLS INTO THE HOLE in the first place.

Our Lady was saved in the second form, the rest of us are saved in the first form.

>>16927703
Holy cope. Even Jesus himself dismissed the idea that she was Holy.

As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and blessed are the breasts that nursed You!” But He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”' (Luke 11:27-28)

>>16927693
'When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, “Lord, do You want us to call down fire from heaven to consume them?” But Jesus turned and rebuked them.'

>>16927693
You can't be serious. What about "let the one without sin cast the first stone"?

>>16927716
This chart is heretical. Where is the Purgatory? Where are the Indulgences?

>>16927693
Here we see the real allure of popeism, it's not tradition, but legalism and roman bloodlust.

>>16927717
>Our Lady was saved in the second form, the rest of us are saved in the first form.

>>16926365
Ironic considering most of the witch hunts and heretic burning took place in the nordic protestant countries. But what would a lutheran faggot like you know from history?

>>16927692
>The Pope is the Catholic Church

no

>>16927750
Yes. He is an infallible aspect of God.

There is hardly any difference between what the typical modern Catholic layman believes and a Protestant.
This isn't the 16th century anymore boomers.

>>16927756
You don't understand papal infallibility.

>>16927762
There is no Purgatory in the Bible. No amount of Catholic cope will change this.

>>16927718
already blessed in the visitation.
>42 In a loud voice she exclaimed, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43
And you say it like if that wasn't what Mary exactly did:
>Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God
>And he (the angel) came to her and said, "Greetings, favoured one! The Lord is with you.
>and obey it.
>Then Mary said, "Here am I, the servant of the Lord; let it be with me according to your word."

>>16927759
That's thanks to Vatican II

>>16926155
Kek, that image is literally "look how nice this gate looks – that means it's the right way!" Remember what Christ said about the wide gate?

>>16927759
sadly, this

>>16927789
What ideas and beliefs do you miss specifically?

>>16927775
Protestantism is unbiblical, and there's a concept of purgatory in the Pauline epistles.

>>16927774
CCC 882
The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter's successor, "is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful."

>>16927750
>Pope "Muslims are Christians too" Francis an infallible aspect of God
lol, thanks anon. haven't laughed that hard in years

>>16927809
>>16927750
Whoops, this was meant to be a reply to >>16927756

>>16927804
>a concept of purgatory in the Pauline epistles
No there isn't.

>>16927701
That's some proto calvinist garbage

>>16927823
Yes there is.

>>16927819
That is a HUUUUGE leap in logic.

>>16927799
First, I don't like the priest facing the congregation. He should be talking to the wall, like before. Also, he should be speaking Latin. I hate knowing what's going on in any given situation.

>>16927830
Cite your sources or go home. The burden of proof is on you.

>>16927808
That doesn't papal infallibility, but it's good that you're reading the catechism.

Papal infallibility only applies to very specific statements regarding matters of faith and morals. e.g. if the pope were to declare that the sky is green, Catholics would not be bound to submit to such a declaration.

>>16927336
Read the Bible and the Church Fathers and escape this hellhole of a discussion as soon as possible if you want to get something clear.

>>16925586
Maybe Islam is correct after all. Salvation through practice coupled with the eternal mercy of God seems to avoid those logical inconsistencies.

>>16927819
>>16927834
Reminds me of this.

>>16927850
*describe papal infallibility

>>16927834
Papal apologists bend over backwards trying to cherry-pick scripture verses to prove that Jesus gave Peter some special office

Meanwhile taking it totally for granted that Peter had anything to do with the beginning of the Catholic church, and never offering a shred of evidence about this.
>Peter? More like Constantine, a Roman emperor interested in gaining better religious control over his subjects

>>16927854
Islam is more Biblically accurate than Catholicism. At least they don't let you pay to go to Heaven.

>>16927846
>11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.
This is useless, but there you are.

>>16927854
That's literally Catholic dogma you moron.

>>16927869
What part of "On This Rock" do you not understand, retard?

>>16927875
What part of "Get behind me, Satan" do you not understand?

>>16927869
That's a pretty epic Catholic image of Jesus to reinforce your point there anon

>>16927826
How is that garbage? There's a lot of difference between Luther and Calvin, even though there are also some similarities. I would definetly say that Luther is closer to Cahtolicism, he even called himself a Catholic until the day he died. Luther is not at all like the American protestants today, in fact he would've been completely against them.

>>16927875
You are literally doing exactly what >>16927869
accused you of doing, expending ever more energy into Peter's office while giving NOTHING to link Peter with the Roman Catholic church

>>16927872
Is that really the best you can do? That verse is incredible vague.

>>16927839
Ahahahahaha alright then sounds good

>>16927869
>Meanwhile taking it totally for granted that Peter had anything to do with the beginning of the Catholic church, and never offering a shred of evidence about this.
See
>>16927184
Where are Peter's successors now, if Catholics aren't the successors of Peter? Nowhere? The coronavirus killed them all in the I century a.C.? Christ said "and the Gates of hell shall no prevail against it" but they actually did prevail?

>>16927886
Just because Catholics are degenerate sinners (just like everyone else, except Christ alone) doesn't mean they can't make kickass art sometimes

>>16927910
How is it a historical fact? It's just a religious tradition.

>>16927901
I said it was useless. The verse condemning sola fide is clear as mountain water and you still cling to it. It doesn't matter.

>>16927927
The list of Bishops of Rome says otherwise. Again, you deny facts.

>>16927910
Ummm gee I dunno, could Peter's "successors" refer to the many churches which ultimately trace back to the thousands and thousands of people whom Peter converted with his kickass sermons, recorded in the Book of Acts?

Why does there have to be a figurehead when Jesus Christ himself is literally "with you always, even to the end of the age" (Matthew 28:20)?

>>16927934
>The list of Bishops of Rome
So the Catholics said that? Sounds a little biased to me. How is that any different than the Mormons?

>>16925586
Damn, Hermann Hesse looks like THIS?

>>16927935
Many different Churches? Haven't you heard
>>16927348
Jesus said to Peter: PETER, FEED MY SHEEP x3 times because he was giving him authority. Because Peter himself was the leader of the Church.

>>16927959
Did Jesus give Peter permission to sell tickets to Heaven too, or did that come later?

>>16927959
You are STILL doing what >>16927869 pointed out, word for word!

OKAY, let's take it for granted that Peter had a special office. Now show us how that's in any way linked to Pope "Islam is A-OK" Francis, the Inquisition, the Crusades, or in a word, the Roman Catholic church (registered trademark)

If you read early reformation those guys all believed in different shades of purgatory, it's the manichean hell + Luciferian Satan that Catholics and neopentecostais believe that has zero fundament in scripture.

https://www.luther.de/en/95thesen.html

Find ONE fault.

>>16926155
fixed.

>>16927983
>Now show us how that's in any way linked to Pope "Islam is A-OK" Francis, the Inquisition, the Crusades, or in a word, the Roman Catholic church (registered trademark)
Because it demonstrates that the Catholic Church is the one Church founded by Jesus? And therefore "the bulwark of Truth" according to Timothy? Because there's a succession? Because everyone else claiming to be Christian would be inside an illegitimate church?
There's no more to argue. If the Catholic Church is the one Church founded by Jesus in the figure of St. Peter, and you aren't Catholic, or you move away from Catholicism because of some moralistic bullshit, then your moralism will be a burden of culpability in the day of the judgment. Because Jesus intended you to be part of his Church.

>>16927985
*early protestants

>>16928063
You're 100% assuming that Peter founded the Catholic church, and giving zero evidence.

I could come out today and say, "St. Peter came to me in a vision and told me to start a new cult. Therefore, since all this Biblical evidence points to Peter having a special office, this proves my cult is the one true church!"

>>16928060
Stop you're making the protties look good.

>>16928028

>>16928076
0 evidence?
>The presence of Peter in Rome, not explicitly affirmed in, but consistent with, the New Testament, is explicitly affirmed by Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, Irenaeus of Lyon and other early Christian writers – and no other place has ever claimed to be the location of his death.
>Irenaeus of Lyon (AD 189) wrote that Peter and Paul had founded the Church in Rome and had appointed Pope Linus to the office of the episcopate, the beginning of the succession of the Roman see.
If not, where are the successors of St. Peter today? Tell me, where are they?

>>16928118
>If not, where are the successors of St. Peter today?
All Christians, not just your specific denomination.

>>16928127
Those are the indirect successors, I'm talking about the direct successors. The ones who retained the authority given by Christ.

>>16928118
Sure, fine, and that church Peter started in Rome was probably all-but-wiped-out by Roman persecution. Up until the TRUE founder of Catholicism, Emperor Constantine, made Catholicism the official Roman religion, at which point Peter's church would have become invisible from sheer obscurity while everyone and their dog rushed to worship Mary to win points with Constantine.

>Where are the successors of St. Peter today?

We took for granted Peter's office, we did not take for granted that it was an office passed down by successors. You'll have to provide evidence for that one, Francis.

You still never addressed why we need a successor of Peter in the first place when Jesus Christ himself is "with you always, even to the end of the age" (Matthew 28:20)

>this kills the papist

>>16927710
>>16927722
>>16927723
>>16927693
"AT that hour the disciples came to Jesus, saying: Who thinkest thou is the greater in the kingdom of heaven? And Jesus calling unto him a little child, set him in the midst of them, and said: Amen I say to you, unless you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, he is the greater in the kingdom of heaven. And he that shall receive one such little child in my name, receiveth me. But he that shall scandalize one of these little ones that believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be drowned in the depth of the sea. "

>>16928170
>Jesus opened muh third eye

What an awful meme lol

>>16928182
You got filtered lol. It says that it would be better for him to be drowned than to do lead a child astray, not that it's a Christian's job to drown him... It's God's job and not in the hands of humans.

>>16928161
>The ones who retained the authority given by Christ.
I doubt Jesus would appreciate you selling tickets to Heaven and worshipping his mom.

>>16928244
+ It doesn't say that he will or should be drowned, only that leading a child astray is a terrible, terrible thing.

>>16925586
Those afraid of failure will never succeed....neither do those who are killed and hung in a cage

>>16927875
The rock is Peter’s confession
Source: Church Fathers and the famous Roman Catholic commentator Ferus
.t Orthodox Christian

>>16927875

See:

>>16927646

One of the many reasons I am not Catholic is that I think it is tremendously insulting even to the passage itself, grammatically, to claim that Jesus speaks of the Catholic Church.

>>16928170
>why we need a successor of Peter in the first place when Jesus Christ himself is
Don't know, why do you need a Church when Jesus Christ is always with us until the end of time? Maybe to not lead you astray?
>>16928386
Orthodogs hold roman primacy until they became schismatics. From the council of Constantinople:
>The third canon reads:
The Bishop of Constantinople, however, shall have the prerogative of honor after the Bishop of Rome because Constantinople is New Rome
>AFTER the Bishop of Rome.

>>16928474
>hold
held

>>16926264
pic related
>>16926310
>wherein Jesus literally calls Peter "Satan" on the very same page
Peters obsession with the material and earthly safety of Jesus was satanic in its rejection of his divine and heavenly judgement.

>>16928528
>Early Christian writings tell us that Peter's successor, the bishops of Rome continued to exercise Peter's ministry in the Church. The Pope is the successor to Peter as bishop of Rome.

I realize that Catholics and reading are blood enemies, but this does not answer the question. The question is NOT if Peter was formally succeeded, but if this succession is at all sanctioned by Jesus.

>>16926237
All Lutherans are Protestants though

>>16926579
Paying money to get rid of your sins is a Jewish thing, it’s either you pay money or sacrifice a chicken

>>16927069
You pray through Mary, not to her

>>16928775
Or at least the Catholics do, maybe you prots don’t understand prayer either

>>16928623
>Jesus appointed Peter so this appointment would die with Peter and therefore Jesus' Church only would last one generation
Please.

>>16928623
I realize that Protestants like to find one contradictory idea taken out of context and use it as the basis of their arguments but that does not address the points made.
Jesus raised Peter (Petros) up as "kepha" and then installed him with specific powers above that of the other disciples (Matthew 16:19).
The succession is rooted in scripture foretelling the coming of Jesus such as Isaiah 22.
In Isiah 22 Eliakim is given authority under that of the master and yet over those in the palace. The symbolism of keys are used through out the OT as a sign of authority.
Why would a head of the church be needed for a few years after Christ but then no longer be necessary? Were not the reasons Peter was placed over the 12 disciples their arguments among themselves? Was Jesus naive in thinking that this would resolve itself in the next generation?
>>16926579
Faith without works is dead

>if you want to make sure you're getting into heaven you need to work 60 hours a week and measure up your success against everyone else in the community
fuck these guys and fuck capitalism

>>16928870
agreed, protestant work ethic is retarded. The most rewarding labor is that done for God or oneself and one's family.
Distributism is the answer to capitalism

Catholicism makes Jesus' sacrifice pointless. Why is the sacrifice of Jesus supposed to be so amazing if we all still have to work out way to heaven with all the morals and sacraments etc? If anything the Catholic way to heaven is more of a hassle than the Old Testament way to heaven.

Not a Christian but Protestantism is the only Christian theology that has an internally coherent system. It is the only system that actually makes God's plan and revelation make sense. Be it the choosing of the old testament Jews, Jesus' sacrifice, the reason why so few are saved and why people hear the same message while some utterly reject it while others embrace it, the doctrine of grace, and especially it seems like the only theology that allows people to have genuine communion with God in this life. Not a Christian though like I said since I don't buy into the Christian God but as a religion Protestantism makes the most sense, to me, especially Calvinism.

>>16928837

This is meaningless conjecture. Mixing and matching Old and New Testament passages in the literal sense is bad enough, looking for "foretelling" is catastrophic. You could just as easily say that Jesus is cursed according to Deuteronomy 21:23, for example. As for the question begging, see: >>16927646 .

>>16925586
Rent free.

>>16928917
>Distributism
Mind pointing me towards some literature on the subject?

>>16928971
Indeed

>>16928967
>You can't understand the context of Jesus' life in the first century by using a perfect account of the history of the society he lived in.
>Jesus was never foretold by the prophets
Read the original KJV, spoiler alert Jesus is the Messiah, the anointed one

>>16929034
a truly free market by john c. médaille
"The Outline of Sanity" by Chesterton
"The hound of distributism" a collection of
essays
"Rerum Novarum: On The Condition Of Working Classes" by Pope Leo XIII

>>16929034
I believe Chesterton wrote extensively about it

>'true Christians' posting anime women

>>16929146

The Old Testament is not a Historical book. Most of its implicit connection to Jesus is Morally ambiguous, Jews and Catholics dejewify and rejewify him thereby, claiming him dejewed inasmuch as he is not the Jewish Messiah and claiming him rejewed inasmuch as he is not native to Catholic "trinitarian" Theology (Demiurgic Cosmology), respectively. Christology at the very least pertains to the dichotomy between the individual-universal and the social-particular, if not the former's abolishing of the latter altogether.

>>16925586
This reads like it was written by George Lucas as a fake religious argument.

anyone have the sedevacantist boomer pic?

the one that says "probably already excommunicated"

>>16929968
Is it this one? lmao I'm glad I found this either way

If the Roman Church had an interest in saving souls then it would be the main driving force behind the modern missionary efforts.

>>16930107
yes that's it thank you

>>16928939
>Not a Christian though like I said since I don't buy into the Christian God but as a religion Protestantism makes the most sense, to me, especially Calvinism.
>Not a Christian
>Protestantism makes the most sense, to me, especially Calvinism.
>especially Calvinism.
Doesn't this post alone prove my cathbro's itt right?

>>16930252
>he can't critique a system without fully embracing it
Ask me how I can tell you're a tradcath.

>>16929196
Thank anon

>>16929196
Thanks for the suggestions anon

>>16926999
You do not understand what you're talking about.

>>16927910
>Where are Peter's successors now, if Catholics aren't the successors of Peter? Nowhere? The coronavirus killed them all in the I century a.C.? Christ said "and the Gates of hell shall no prevail against it" but they actually did prevail?
restored by Joseph Smith in the early 1800s

>>16931693
MORMON / AMISH TAKE OVER WHEN?

>>16926174
>>16926186
>If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

>>16927869
>>16927886
The image literally depicts the Sacred Heart of Jesus, which is a Catholic symbol.

>>16925586
>Luther had a problem with "Thou Shalt Not Kill"
Lol what?

>>16925586
>throws all these insults
>never gives any evidence or exact content as to what these "failings" are

>>16933393
In case you were serious

Every Prot vs. Cath thread sucks so hard. Neither of you understand what the other believes. Hell, half of you don't even understand what it is *you're* supposed to believe. Honestly depressing. Just admit that you're all normal people trying your best to live right before God, not intellectuals educated enough to carry out any kind of serious theological discourse. Be kinder to eachother, because in all likelihood you're BOTH heretical, by your own confessional standards.