/lit/ - Literature

>>16886197
I would like to know which English translations are best too. I read the German translation by Robert Boxberger, and it is absolutely beautiful, but precisely because of its beauty I can't help but wonder if he didn't have to take quite some liberties to get it into such a poetic form.
I have heard good things about Bibek Debroy in general, has anyone read his Gita and knows if it's good?
>How do the ideas in this book compare to what Eastern or even Western spiritual traditions teach?
For me it was really eye opening to read the Bhagavad Gita and then go back and read the Daodejing and Zhuangzi again, which I had read previously but understood little of. I definitely see some similarities.

>>16886197
>So do not be concerned with the fruit of your action — just give attention to the action itself. The fruit will come of its own accord. This is a powerful spiritual practice. In the Bhagavad Gita, one of the oldest and most beautiful spiritual teachings in existence, non-attachment to the fruit of your action is called Karma Yoga. It is described as the path of "consecrated action."

>>16886435
>The fruit will come of its own accord
Thank you for pointing this out. People who try to make a worldly teaching out of it, such as this hack, are to be strictly avoided.

On this topic, should one read the Bhagavad Gita alone, or the whole Mahabharata? And why?

>>16886197
Easwaran's translation is good for people who are new to eastern/Indian philosophy IMO

>>16886435>>16886447

>>So do not be concerned with the fruit of your action — just give attention to the action itself. The fruit will come of its own accord.
this is why atheists love eastern garbage so much. Bugmen hate to judge and their lack of knowledge of efficiency is the glorification of mediocrity and mental fappening.

>>16886405
Yes, judging from the descriptions from other people, it definitely reminds me of the Tao te Ching even though I haven't read the Bhagavad Gita yet. Reading the Tao te Ching changed my life for months and I honestly should return to it and draw from it again.
>>16886466
Thank you, I will look into it. I have read some Eastern stuff like the Tao te Ching obviously and the book of Chuang Tzu but overall I'm quite a noob.

>>16886648
>this is why atheists love eastern garbage so much
since fucking when?

>>16886463
The Mahabharata is a massive text, you can just read the Gita without the Mahabharata and then read the Mahabharata later. Most Gita editions contain a brief intro explaining the context of the scene in which the Gita is set

>>16886197
I did research into this a couple weeks ago and based on what I found I ended up getting the Easwaran translation as anon above also mentioned, but I haven’t gotten around to reading it yet.

>>16886197
Anyone have a good series of histories of India to read? Would like to start at the very earliest point and progress forward.
I read Feng’s ‘Early China’ for the Shang and Zhou and Lewis’s ‘Early Chinese Empires’ for the Qin and Han, for instance. Find that reading history first always helps to contextualize literature.
Also looking for a good translation of the Gita and Upanishads.

>>16886974
You live under a rock?

>>16886197
Read Bibek Debroy translation, it is direct and doesn't come encumbered with Commentary (aka propaganda for a specific school)

>>16886197
All of Debroy's translations are good, they're mostly all on libgen as well

>>16886197
I have read multiple translations, I would say the best all-round one is the Norton Critical Edition translated by Gavin Flood and Charles Martin. The introduction says Gavin Flood first made a very literal translation, then edited it with Charles Martin to make it read better as English poetry. It does indeed flow well as a sort of free verse with four line stanzas, mimicking the four-line verses of the original Sanskrit. Comparing it to more literal translations the sense seems to be the same, so it does appear to have a nice balance of accuracy and style. There is a minimum of commentary on the text, just some notes briefly explaining names and technical terms, it doesn't strongly push an interpretation. After the text itself is included the Shvetāshvatara Upanishad, another ancient Hindu text with similar themes to the Gita. Then there are very interesting essays and extracts of Hindu commentaries.

I would certainly say it's the best all-rounder I have come across.

Comparing some famous verses, here is the Flood and Martin's translation compared to the highly literal Franklin Edgerton translation:

Gita 4.11
>Flood and Martin
So I reward the devotion
of all those who resort to me;
everywhere my followers walk
in my path, O son of Pritha
>Edgerton
In whatsoever way any come to Me,
In that same way I grant them favor.
My path follow
Men altogether, son of Pṛthā.

Gita 11.32
>Flood and Martin
I am almighty time, the world-destroying,
and to destroy these worlds I have arisen!
Those warriors arrayed in lines opposing
your men, even without you, will have perished!
>Edgerton
I am Time (Death), cause of destruction of the worlds, matured
And set out to gather in the worlds here
Even without thee (thy action), all shall cease to exist,
The warriors that are drawn up in the opposing ranks.

Yes, anon, go ahead and fill your brain with senseless, baseless drivel, it’ll do you good! At least you might be able to cope til you die and dissolve into rotten matter

>>16888339
seethe

>>16886197
sir do the needful

>>16886648
>praising "efficiency" and trying to charge people as "bugmen" in the same sentence
when did the word "bugmen" become such common parlance that little shitheads use it with the same frequency and aimlessness as a 14 year old who calls everything "gay". i feel old

>>16888398
lol gay

>>16886197
I tried reading this and I just couldn’t do it. Not that it was bd or uninteresting but even with the context provided in the introduction I still felt like I wasn’t grasping what was written at all. It seems pretty different from any of the abrahamic religions or the Tao Te Ching. I have zero experience with curry religion.

>>16888367
>webm related
Kek. is that a movie?

>>16886435
man this guy doesn't get it at all lmao

>>16886197
I’m reading the Bhagavad Gita as it is right now and I’m really enjoying it.

>>16890610
Nah it's a Bollywood Sprite commercial

>>16890925
Don't get me wrong, I love the cosmology and ontology and soteriology of Gaudiya.
Can't recommend Bhagavata Purana enough, as well as Isha Upanishad

>try to read the bible
>get up to the 'begat's
>try to read the mahabharata
>get up to the 'you were not here when's

>>16887561
Atheists despise Hinduism though. They view it as even more insane as christianity, more gods is worse than one after all.
You're right that that love a materialistic version of buddhism they created in the 70's though.

>>16888339
it's time to dilate anon

>>16886197

If you want to save yourself a lot of time and cut through a lot of unnecessary fluff, ignore everything about Hinduism written after the 17th century, just pick up one of the medieval commentaries written on the Gita in wonderfully poetic prose and go from there

>Shankara's Gita commentary (8th century)
https://archive.org/details/Bhagavad-Gita.with.the.Commentary.of.Sri.Shankaracharya

>Abhinavagupta's Gita commentary (10th century)
http://www.mediafire.com/file/5ydfuxohdtms7um/Bhagavad_Gita_Abhinavagupta_Bhashya_%2528B_Marjanovic%2529.pdf/file

>Ramanuja's Gita commentary (11th century)
http://www.srimatham.com/uploads/5/5/4/9/5549439/ramanuja_gita_bhashya.pdf

>Jnanadeva's Gita commentary (13th century)
https://estudantedavedanta.net/Sri-Jnandevas-Bhvartha-Dipika-Jnaneswari_smaller.pdf

>>16891821
One would think atheists would like Hinduism more since they don't have as nearly a bloody history as Christianity and Islam. The worst things got were heated philosophical debates between Shaivites and Vaishnavites.

>>16892608
lmao based. will post this when i come across a buddhist in /lit

>>16892611
>One would think atheists would like Hinduism
only until they find out that classical India had a philosophically atheist materialist school which all the Hindu and non-Hindu Indian schools attacked

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charvaka

The BG is not 'indian' it's slavic aryan. In a decade all white men will realise this, its implications and their pre Atlantean Hyperborean roots.

>>16893158
In a way, himmler was the ultimate hipster

>The Bhagavad Gita and the Vedas—especially the Rig Veda—were works that Heinrich Himmler, Hitler's trusted lieutenant, was intimate with and were used by him to justify the genocide of the untermenschen, the subhuman races. Himmler was the head of the SS and the man in charge of the Nazi concentration camps. He is widely held responsible for the Holocaust, the "Final Solution". Some sources claim that Himmler always carried a copy of the Bhagavad Gita with him and read passages from it every night. He called the book his "high Aryan canto" and regularly quoted excerpts from it. He espoused the Vedic caste system and believed that his SS were like the Kshatriyas, warriors who were empowered to kill for a higher purpose. He particularly referred to conversations between Krishna and Arjuna at Kurukshetra where the latter questions the rightness of war and violence and Krishna explains that it would actually be a sin not to fight in the battle as he would not be respecting his own dharmic duty. In speeches to the SS, Himmler drew a parallel between Hitler and Krishna and possibly identified with Arjuna himself.

>>16893200
muh holocaust

muh 6000000

muh exact number needed for the jewish 'messiah' to return and conquer the world

>>16892608
>shankshara shit poster

>>16891950
Himduism and Buddhism can assimilate with Atheism pretty seamlessly because there's traditional precedence for it.

>>16886197
I was in a similar position a year ago approximately. My advice? Download several translations and choose one or - do as I did - read several translations simultaneously. I'm not on my PC right now, but I believe that I read one by a fella named Easwan (or something similar), a certain Barbara, one edition was 700+ pages long (each verse was in both Sanskrit and English and then had a short explanation thereafter which really inflated the length of the book). I also skimmed through the Microsoft one you can get on their online store for free.
After having read all of those, I think that the book is incredibly mediocre and you can't really go wrong with whatever book you choose. It's also incredibly short so you can always reread it if you really want to. Hope you find it more pleasing than I did.

>>16893385

>>16892608
Based thanks for the links

>>16893200
hindus dont give a shit about this subversive shit!

>>16892608
I would be careful about reading Advaita Vedanta interpretations such as Shankara's as a commentary to the Upanishads, they are extremely reliant on Buddhist philosophy (Shankara is called a "cryptobuddhist" by most Hindus, and most scholars agree). If you want to read the Upanishads, work through them with editions and commentaries that aren't sectarian, or at least read an interpretation that is closer to the original meaning of the Upanishads, rather than Shankara's 9th century AD quasi-buddhism.

>>16886435
I hate this guy so much. He has no original ideas of his own, just repeats things found in Hinduism and Buddhism and thinks they are right because those religions are 'exotic' and foreign.

>>16894761
shut the fuck up you retard you clearly know fuck all about advaita vedanta or buddhism you pureland buddhist cunt shut the fuck posting your shit

The Easwaran translation was very good, with nice notes and explanations of the Vedic terminology.

>>16892608
buddhism, as far as we know, is essentially an anti-authoritarian criticism of hinduism and jainism that later incarnations of hinduism basically incorporated down the line, as buddhism was far more egalitarian and inclusive than the ceremonial, caste-structured hinduism of its era. shankara would have gotten nowhere had siddhartha gautama not laid the path centuries prior. both religions and philosophies benefited immeasurably from each other, neither is strictly better than the other.

for all of his metaphysical failures, at least the buddha placed complete agency in the hands of man. he stressed that man's fate was ultimately up to himself and there was no god, no angels, and no otherworldly power that could lift him from his misery except himself, and that he had to expend great effort in order to overcome his flaws.

>>16894868
i am an expert on the "late theology" advaita vedanta, as patrick olivelle calls it, and sorry sweetie but it is crypto-buddhism

>>16892611
>they don't have as nearly a bloody history
Please, please read a fucking history book before you say blackhole-brain shit

>>16894949
buddhism is crypto hinduism

>>16894923
>shankara would have gotten nowhere had siddhartha gautama not laid the path centuries prior
and who laid the path for buddah?

>at least the buddha placed complete agency in the hands of man.

so does advaita

>>16894973
every academic and most hindus disagree with you hahaha get dabbed on buddhist

yet you come to the asertion that advaita vedanta is cyrpto-buddhism with little to no backing. a little contradictory don't you think

>>16895150
be quiet buddhist

>>16887561
what a retard. even New Atheist prophets like Hitchens and Dawkins consider the abrahamisms to be an 'improvement' over polytheist Hinduism, Hellenic religion etc.

>>16893459
First of all, the nastika materialist schools like carvaka faced incredible opposition from the orthodoxy. just because some modern faggot who wants to be atheist finds common ground with carvaka or bauddhas, doesn't mean it can be clubbed together with hinduism.

>>16895176
i'm hindu unfortunately for you but you're still wrong and clearly need to read more

>>16895214
>admitting you're a buddhist
good job, now the healing can begin. step one, get a real theology like nagarjuna. step two practice real hinduism instead of advaita buddhism online.

>>16886197
Prabhupada is based, but don’t read his translations–he twists them ever so slightly to support his Gaudiya Vaishnavism variety of Hinduism.

>>16895246
whats real hinduism to you?
>addmitting you're a buddhist
didnt know buddists also worship shiva

>>16895258
pop quiz: does shiva really exist or is he just part of crypto-buddhist (advaita) brahman

remember, no ironically worshiping deities that don't really exist or else you are a fake hindu

>>16895272
so everything is just crypto buddhism? i guess we should inform the pope as well, let him know that language has no meaning and anything can just be called anything else, i guess this is the power of the buddah, thanks bodidharma

>>16890925
As It Is, is the best English translation, many hindus corroborate this

>>16895297
no just advaita is crypto-buddhism

you didn't answer the question. suspicious. is shiva real?

>>16895303
many 'hare krishnas"

>>16895308
yes.
but you fail to make the distinction as to what buddhism and "crypto-buddhism" are other posting giant walls of meme text that mean nothing becuase you can consolidate your own ideas. You' are also yet to tell me what calrifies real hinduism, suspcious

>>16895335
you just did it for me. you think shiva is real and personal, and not just an aspect of brahman. congrats you are a real hindu and not a fake hindu (advaita).

>>16895369
i didnt say he was personal i didnt say hes not an aspect of brahman. i think you really really need to clarify your definition and articulate the ideas you are trying to get across because you sound like /x/ schizo poster who clearly has only read surface level matieral or watch a few too many ekhart tolle/ sadhguru videos

>>16895396
>yes shiva is real i mean no shiva isn't real i mean real but not real you know like anatta- i mean like brahman but yea i totally worship shiva except i don't because shiva is just an aspect of brahman but a real aspect but only brahman is real but ...

ahh so you are an advaita (fake hindu) after all, thanks for falling into my trap buddhist. ditch the buddhism friend, real hindus find it offensive. you would know that if you didn't get your knowledge of india from european occultists and muslims.

>>16894923
>shankara would have gotten nowhere had siddhartha gautama not laid the path centuries prior
Completely retarded, Shankara thoroughly trashed Buddhism

>>16895501
its agreed amongst hindus that shiva, vishnu and brahma and all aspects of brahman, so you really need to do your research before you claim this sint real hinduism, no where did i say "shiva is real i mean he isnt real" please dont be disingenuous, i thought you would be willing to have a real discussion about these topics but you fail to have even basic knowledge. you are also yet to clarify any of these "terms" and distinctions you have made, you also claim your opinion to be what all hindus conform to. they do not.

>from what i gather
you dont like advaita vedantta for reasons you are unable to articulate. (maybe is dosnt conform to your idea of hindu?) is that it? but becuase it has a similarity in there to buddhism you now put it un the buddhism banner which i assume you also disagree with?. and to distinguish buddhism to advaita vedanta (even though a huge portion of hindus follow this) you name is "crypto-buddhism" is this the gist? please clarify

>>16895692
he fails to understand that if buddha could lay the path so could any one else.

>>16886974
> yfw

I used to love Buddhism vs Hinduism threads because I found the difference interesting but then I started to doubt that anyone in these threads knows what they are talking about.

>>16895953
exactly, the schzio derails the thread

>>16896044
The anti-guenonfag fag?

Can someone tell me why they believe Vedanta is better than Buddhism or vice-versa? They're quite similar so in what way is one better than the other?

>>16886974
Where do you think the secular meditation fad came from?

>>16894785
You can look at what they have to say without falling for the fluff parts. You are just doing the opposite where you denounce something because it's foreign.

>>16896075
the crypto buddhist guy
>>16896138
will it depends what kind of hinduism, but if we look at advaita and buddhism you're right there is a few key metaphysical differences as well as rituals/and changes of that sort but they both aim for the same thing, but even shaivism and vashnavas had a similar idea before hadn where shiva or vishnu where the ultimate but would use the deity as a focus/ideal for worship since the brahman concept can be quit difficult to grasp, even if its understood intellectually its not that same of being 'with it'

>>16896320
Hmm. I can't decide between Hinduism (probably Vedanta) and Buddhism (Mahayana)

>>16896336
If you pick Advaita, you don't have to choose, since it's Buddhism that calls itself Hinduism.

Why don't you study both?

>>16896320
>>16896138
some people need a' god' as their means of faciliting a message such as hinduism, they find this method the best way for them to achieve their 'enlightenment'

where as buddhism says you dont need the 'god' notion to reach the end goal just the knowledge/method so they make a doctrine that facilitates the enlightenment in a way that dosnt need a god but the message is the same

we hear the idea that these religions are just boats to get across the river, each river just being a different boat
or a a pack of sweets although you dont need to wrapper you can't get the sweets without it as they would fall on the floor, the wrapper is that to transfer the sweets to the person.

>>16896351
>Why don't you study both?
I plan to, although i'm afraid that ill be filtered by all the big brain talk on self or no-self and won't be able to make my mind up.

>>16896351
but thats what buddhism is anyway, its hinduism without the gods

>>16895712
>its agreed amongst hindus that shiva, vishnu and brahma and all aspects of brahman
Not at all, every single school is focused on forwarding the idea that their own preferred Deva is the Supreme Reality which is shrouded by the aura that is Brahman.
Many schools are even explicitly personalist, like Gaudiya and Sri Vaishnavas

>>16896390
buddism says NO-self as in no ego no personal self
hinduism says realise 'the self' is the state of being that the buddahs mean by 'no-self' the self the hindus talk about is that same 'no self' but with the hindu metaphysics (packaging)

>>16896427
This, the distinction between Impersonalist Hinduism and Buddhism is a distinction without a difference.

>>16896416
yes exactly but they agree that they are all part of brahman they just prefer there personal diety to be their ultimate or supreme which is fine if it helps them worship and achieve their goal

>>16896427
So, there's no essential difference, just different perceptions and explanations of (no)self? Different sides of the ultimate truth?

>>16896458
same ultimate truth, they maybe have taken a differnt path with slightly different obstacles/trials but they reach the same goal, perception of it may differ between buddah and a hindu but they are in the same place thats for sure

>>16896427
This. I always thought the “no self” is just confusing the jiva with the Atman. The real self is not the mind or its impermanent feelings or thoughts it’s just a blank neutral observer that experiences those things

>>16896450
No.
They believe that Brahman is the effulgence or radiative glow issuing from the transcendental body of the Supreme Being.

>>16896427
>>16896440
>>16896473
If this is the case, why are there so many Hindus and Buddhist who argue over these points endlessly? Or do most regard them to be talking about the same ultimate reality.

>>16897416
Because, as an old Swami once said:
"A Philosopher cannot become a Great Philosopher until he defies all the other Philosophers"
It's autismal egoism

>>16897416
Buddhists still reject the Vedas, the core scriptures of Hinduism.

Where should I start if I want to read non-crypto-buddhist non-dualist Hinduism?

>>16897973
As do the Jains, just a side note.
Yoga in general is a Dravidian addition.
Just like Mazdayasna, Vedism was a form of ritual magic.

>>16898021
Geoffrey Samuels, Surendranath Dasgupta

>>16898021
Unironically the Markandeya Purana, good commentary-free translation is on libgen btw.
(Bibek Debroy)

>>16898021
QRD
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markandeya_Purana

Has anyone here read pic related? I've got a copy but I'm not all too sure if the translation has been simplified for Western audiences and therefore has lost its value. I can post some verses if anyone would like.