/lit/ - Literature

Traditional publishing:
>ensure your manuscript is fully completed and edited
>format it properly https://blog.reedsy.com/manuscript-format/ (if you're smart, you'll use scrivener which can export to whatever format you want in a few clicks)
>write a query https://www.janefriedman.com/query-letters/
>(optional) write a 1k word synopsis. not many agents ask for them, but you will feel as though you are dying when you try to write one, so might as well prepare one while you aren't also under the pressure of a deadline
>go to https://querytracker.net/ or similar site and find agents who fit your genre
>tweak your query letter to personalize it to them, usually only one or two lines at the end
>follow the instructions they provide for sending the query letter
>repeat around ten times
>wait a month or two
>if they all reject/ignore you, send ten more
>if anyone doesn't reject you, they'll request the first few chapters of your manuscript or the full thing
>follow their instructions and be polite

>>16862150
And for self publishing?

>>16862175
Amazon publishing autist

you can do it, anons!

>>16862223
The thinking man's choice. Anyone who says the opposite is deluding themselves and is ngmi

how's it called when a guy blows forcefully in frustration?

>>16862555
chuffed

i don't know when i first noticed her, but i do vaguely remember my first impression. weird overalls. nobody wears those. they weren't really overalls, more like snow pants, but they had these black suspenders and it reminded me of something that a little kid would wear. in fact, i had a pair when i was about 13 years old. beautiful ski jacket hanging over the chair. i wish my girlfriend would wear something like that. probably too feminine for her. white coat, blue and pink flowers. great design. she was seated alone, facing towards us, waiting for her food. she had a very round face and big blue eyes, which, combined with her suspenders, created a very child-like impression. she was adorable.

her food arrived, and i was shocked by the massive crab legs on the plate. look at those fucking crab legs! i whispered, under my breath. it was impressive to watch her eat them. she sucked out all of the meat with such enthusiasm. here was a girl that was not afraid to get her hands dirty. and that mouth. i watched in amazement as she sucked so much crab meat out of those hulking long crab legs. she looked euphoric. i occasionally remarked on the progress of her dinner to my friend as we waited for our food. each time he told me to speak more quietly. what if she heard you? he said. finally, i resolved to speak to her. she was cute. she was child-like. and how she sucked the meat out of those crab legs. she had soul.

i stood to go to the toilet. a line. a line for the male toilet. i don't believe in human rights. just a social construct. you can say anything is a human right. there is no scientific measurement, no black and white definition. if i had my own list of human rights, it would be a human right for men to never have to wait in line at the toilet. waiting in line for the toilet is for women.

eventually it was my turn. i locked the door, peed, fixed my hair in the mirror. actually i didn't look so bad today. constant wind and snow. no moisturiser in my bag. no space for it. baggage cost extra. it was the arctic circle. but my skin was handling it okay. i went back to the dining room. i hoped she'd still be there.

i glanced at her table as i entered. empty. i chided myself. should have taken the opportunity while you had the chance you never regret the things you do, only the things you don't do you only live once you'd never have seen her again anyway. these thoughts entered my head all at once, in a stroke of masochistic self-reproachment. but then, there she was. sitting at...OUR table. he'd gone to her. the bastard.

>>16862570
kek

>>16862644
>How the chuff should I know?
You can really use anything instead of "fuck" for emphasis, can't you?
>How the shit should I know?
>How the nigger should I know?
>How the shazbot should I know?

Please rate this excerpt from my 200k word epic.


There were only three left.
I approached, gripping my shlong, using my last remaining spirit energy to will it to harden. The women were smug, one of them mocking me by lifting two of her fingers as though to imply the schlong I now held steady was not as immense and powerful as I thought.
"Oh my vagina!" I exclaimed, pointing behind them with my best attempt at utter shock. "By the light of Anita, is that...?!"
Two of them turned, easily falling for the ruse. The third was clearly a genius amongst women and saw through my plan. Unfortunately for her, I had also planned for that result. Before she could alert her friends to my clever plot, I grabbed at her, reaching around her massive breasts (which was no easy feat, as these women each breasts the size of small weather balloons) to hold a hand to her mouth and maneuver myself around to her backside. I struggled to maintain a hold of her mouth as I climbed over her giant buttocks and finally found myself lodged between her cheeks. I knew I had to be quick, but she was quicker, squeezing me between her ass flaps with such force that against myself I cried out in pain. Her comrades turned then and saw what was unfolding and their smug faces returned.
"Pop goes she shlongzle," one of them said in a feminist accent.
"Look into my eyes, you treacherous witch!" I yelled, my voice strained as the ass flaps dug into me, threatening to snap my ribs. I could feel a suction as her asshole opened and began to pull me in like a python swallowing its prey. I knew time was running out. I had to use it: my trump card. "Listen carefully..." Taking in breath was becoming difficult, but I managed to get enough to yell one last time. "NIIIIGGGEEEER RAAAPE NIGGERNIGGERRAAAAAPE!!!"
I felt the ass cheeks loosen. It wasn't much, but it had to be enough. I squeezed myself down as they had began to try and comfort one another in Feminism, which I could only understand a few words of. I dipped low enough that I found the canyon of hair and blood which sat long abandoned beneath her deadly ass. I penetrated her, hard and fast, my spirit schlong dissolving the hair in encountered, passing safely through the acid barrier and reaching her FemCore. Upon contact, the woman's body waivered and shook. Then it was sucked deep into the spirit schlong, joining with the others to be purified. A sickly feeling coursed through my body, but I ignored it, knowing I had more to do.
"Two more," I said in a tired voice to the remaining women who rippled like miniature oceans as they shook.

>>16862604
its ad, sorry. Except maybe the last 4 sentences. Worked into a postmodernist poem.

>>16862962
You reminded me when I tried to read a new fun-looking light novel, it was fun but from 10th chapter or so the author was consumed by cooming
>someone tries to rape a girl, MC helps her
>they go to a village
>descriptions of making babies in the village, MC helps to cure infertility, women like him, all want his "seed"
>he helps a woman (surgery) but in the middle she moans and as the author said "does sounds of pleasure
>descriptions of people kidnapping women to sell them as sex slaves
>descriptions of turning women into constant 24h a day sex machines to "cure lust"

All this in just a few chapter, I just dropped that shit and didn't wait for his internal coom monster to go fuck himself.

https://www.novelupdates.com/series/the-death-mage-who-doesnt-want-a-fourth-time/

>>16862962
Sorry, I don't like to critique naughty writing. But I'll happily return critique anyone who does so for pic related.

>>16863033
>naughty
It's an intense battle scene about a man saving the world.

>>16862148
that quote's about sucking cock, which makes it cooler

>>16863033
it's alright I guess... nothing stands out. It's good. I'd keep reading to see if it gets interesting.

>>16862148
Don't worry bros I'm sure you're going to finish that novel any day now!

Are there any principles I should follow when writing dialogue? So far I've been trying to keep in mind
>the characters' identities (who they are and what led them to that conversation)
>the nature of their relationship
>their respective objectives
>how those goals clash together and whether they enter into conflict
I don't know if this will be enough to keep me from being suddenly stumped. Any advice you could provide?

I want to turn my character from a depressed kind guy who doesn't know what his way is into a brave motherfucker antihero general of his own army
What should I do to not make him and his journey there edgy?

>>16863476
This is why people just clone personalities from other stories, exaggerate a character to the point they're just some trope, then tone it down when you're editing so it's not overbearing but it's still somewhat there to give them that distinct personality.

Immature tsundere who always complains but has a soft side to her? Have her constantly bitch and whine and be a bit mean. Then when you're editing, she becomes a snarky/cynical character who doesn't have bad intentions. This is literally my cheatsheet for writing dialogue. Shit comes out as "YOU BAKA" tropes and all on the first draft and gets edited into "insolent fool"

>>16863508
make the antihero shit more practical, and have his actions be justified by having his kind side gets taken advantage of or be cause of failure. Let's say you were good intentioned and tried to do the "right" thing and it led to the death of everyone you know. Then you're presented with a similar situation. Are you going to be dumb enough to make the naive choice once more? Fuck that shit. You're not going to take anymore risks the second time. Now it's not edgy, it makes perfect sense.

>>16863033
i feel like this is well written but it's lacking SOVL

>>16863521
When editing dialogue, do you just alter the form of speech, or also the content? I have a hard time altering my characters' wording without modifying their meaning.

>>16863569
Depends on the context. When you're editing you'll just do whatever you feel is best at the time. Anon the whole point to cloning personalities is to stop you from getting stumped. Don't think too much about this, you can change it all later.

Today I penned words for the first time since about July. It was no easy task, but it good to have metaphoric pen to paper again.
HOWEVER, it looks like book 2 will be about an eighth shorter than book 1. This doesn't seem too large a gap between them, does it?

>>16863154
Thanks anon. Maybe I should try increase the hook.

>>16863536
Thanks, excuse my ignorance but what's SVOL?

>>16863987
Soul, heart, reality,

>>16864000
Ahh, I see. It's only the beginning to a short story I'm working on- hopefully you'd think there was soul by the end. Thanks for the feedback.

>>16863863
what is your book about, anon?

>>16863508
Have him constantly lose or fuck up. Make the reader want him to succeed.

>>16863863
Not at all. It's usually the other way round, sure, but I don't see that that would be an issue unless you fail to wrap up plot points.

>>16863987
Like, check out how DFW starts his stories.

>>16863033
feels a bit too wordy
feels like you're using thesaurus
has too many commas and adjectives
felt a little tedious to read

overall not bad but those are the things i didn't like. 5.5/10

>>16863033
I loved it. Hate the "new school" who say that sentences should be short and clipped. This flowed nicely, commas and semi-colons were well placed, seems polished without being overwriten. You're never going to please everyone anon. You're probably better of finishing the whole short story and sending it to beta readers to get more reliable feedback

>>16864087
I think I get what you're saying. Part of the story is that she is really disconnected from what's happening to her, and doesn't really understand her own emotions and desires, so I was trying to go for a kind of airy prose style. I understand its not for everyone.

>>16864115
I'm definitely not using a thesaurus! But maybe I can try and replace some words and shorten a couple of sentences. My writing style does tend to stretch things out a bit.

>>16864140
Aggg, then I read something like this which likes the long sentences. How confusing. Thank you for your kind words though anon, you're probably right about sending off the whole story.

>>16864087
Dfw was a fag

>>16864166
No worries anon. I say stay true to your style, at least you're developing a voice. The other anon posted DFW but don't try to emulate him too much. Look at the start of Araby by Joyce and you could call that soulless in comparison, but I guarantee you Joyce is the better writer. You do you.

>>16863033
I would continue to read this

>>16864087
I would not continue to read this

my thoughts on why some of us (especially those living there) find commieblocks appealing. blz rate, i'll rate some prev writings in my next post

> those commieblock and abhorrent sctructures are objectively ugly, there's no argument to be had. but we grew to love them, feel their unspoken homeliness, we even found some perversed beauty in their inborn decay.
most ancient buildings, as you know, were built with their decomposition in mind, making sure the ruins will be pretty. call it vainly confident or inhumanly clever, with care reaching beyond the lifespan of those constructing and using those structures, even beyond the age of a nation that birthed them, but it's romantic nonetheless, almost out of the reach of our modern thinking.
> these commieblocks on the contrary were stillborn, looking ruinous before the final brick was laid, depressing before time started its inevitable touch-up. in this a commieblock inhabitant may see a ground for pity, one always pities a newborn cripple, and out of that sorry empathy our curious affection stems.
> i doubt my truthfulness here. knowing how an average person is, they likely despise their dwelling in silence, or more probably don't even think in such terms - the dullness of such life beats the sacred sense of beauty out of most people, no fertile ground for it to thrive, no motivation to even be present. appeal, especially so in soviet times, was dictated not by that mysterious sense of beauty but by megalomania and artificial sets of aspects. it's curious how things were built to be built, not to please the inhabitants, an opposite - and in that opposition identical - end of the horseshoe with capitalist notion for producing wares to be sold, not used.
> but those who do have a tender spot for concrete anthills so scarring to one's eye, i think i know their reasoning, me being one of them.
it's not a stockholm syndrome, not a prisoner growing to love his confinement - why, we don't regard those wordless blocks as sided with opressors! they never asked to be built, to be built ugly and unwelcome, nor did the builders indend any malice, and misdeed with no malice is but a sorry mishap.
> this pity somehow makes you think of blocks as yet another victim, just like you, they never reap the fruit of their disfigurement, they make no profit of your misery, it's almost as if they, too, have a melancholy of their own, suffering alongside us, sharing our bread and mirth, tears and laugher as cliche as it is, a fellow inmate in this grey concrete sansara bestowed upon all things living and not.

>>16862555
>>16862570
>>16862666
It's "huffed", you dumbdumbs.

>>16863794
love those similes and imagery. somewhat reminded me of cortazar's short story "moebius line", one of my favorite trops (and hardest to perform right) is the description of those delirious, dissosiative states. really well-done. whats the story about?
>>16863033
seems a bit heavy (especially on the introductory words, sorry esl dont know the correct term, they're present in every sentence) but you draw a clean picture quickly. it's still readable and flows very well, if it's just an intro with characters that wont make much presense in the following text i'd leave it be
perhaps break it down into more paragraphs (seems like too many separate places and points of action in one paragraph)
would continue reading

>>16864047
It is realistic low fantasy about a slave prostitute who narrowly survives her city being sacked and her striving to survive in a world inimical to her, trying to find a place to live and avoid a return slavery. Book 2 is about a pair of wellborn brothers caught in a small feud which grows to an open rebellion. The heir and firstborn is something of a despondent depressive and the younger brother slowly descends to madness. The third and concluding book will be the survivors of these tales being linked in tertiary ways later in life, centered around a recently widowed queen whose struggling with her nephew's ascent to the throne. Thanks for asking!
>>16864072
I will indeed wrap as tightly as I am willing. I do enjoy forcing my reader to make inferences. I cannot stand writing which puts no questions to its reader.

>>16864305
Thank you! its a short story about obsessive self consciousness that has devolved into a light-speed meta-thought feedback loop, not much of a story but an attempt to illustrate that nearly insane state of mind. im glad it came across to you as such, i'll have to check out moebius line

>>16863033
unreadable if supposed to be literature; fitting the mold if the target audience is female YA readers.

Any other non-beginners in this thread? Intro to my latest short below, just submitted it and hoping it'll be my first accepted for publication:

It seems increasingly likely that I really will undertake the expedition that has been preoccupying my imagination now for some days. An expedition, I should say, which I will undertake alone, in the comfort of Mr Farraday’s Ford; an expedition which, as I foresee it, will take me through much of the finest countryside of England to the West Country, and may keep me away from Darlington Hall for as much as five or six days. The idea of such a journey came about, I should point out, from a most kind suggestion put to me by Mr Farraday himself one afternoon almost a fortnight ago, when I had been dusting the portraits in the library. In fact, as I recall, I was up on the step-ladder dusting the portrait of Viscount Wetherby when my employer had entered carrying a few volumes which he presumably wished returned to the shelves. On seeing my person, he took the opportunity to inform me that he had just that moment finalized plans to return to the United States for a period of five weeks between August and September. Having made this announcement, my employer put his volumes down on a table, seated himself on the chaise-longue, and stretched out his legs. It was then, gazing up at me, that he said:

‘You realize, Stevens, I don’t expect you to be locked up here in this house all the time I’m away. Why don’t you take the car and drive off somewhere for a few days? You look like you could make good use of a break.’

>>16864390
Not even that anon but if you think that's YA level you're just salty he actually wrote something, even if it needs tweaking.

>>16864388
would read, link if/when you're finished

>>16864229
danke bro I'm retarded

Outlining my first novel in the snowflake method and going down a spiral of crafting these detailed backstories for several characters. Go so much story that it warrants their own novels. Does this happen often?

>>16864399
was about to say "reminds me of that comfily tedious britbongery", then reached the 3rd line. kekd

>>16864464
My novel's opening chapter was supposed to just be a prologue or maybe two. I ended up making it into a full-fledged story and putting the original concept in a deep freeze. So I'd say yes.

Once long ago there lived a man with 1000 eyes. He lived all alone in a cave beside a river. Every day at dawn he crawled out from his stone hovel and splashed into the cool, crystalline water of the river. There he stayed in the shallows, crawling on his hands and knees, overturning rocks, searching for little salamanders and crustaceans to eat. At night he returned home to his cave and waited to repeat the process again in the morning. The man lived this way for decades undisturbed.
Eventually the outside world caught up to him. All of a sudden, the man began hearing sounds of his fellow men, and the sounds of construction. Before long, his cave was less than 5 miles away from a bustling town.
Occasionally he heard the footfalls of people or horses pulling wagons on the other side of the steep hill in which his cave resided. The sounds sent shockwaves through his insular little valley. He did not rejoice at these sounds, or at the prospect of meeting his fellow man. Instead, whenever someone passed by, the man stopped what he was doing, froze in place, and listened. At any sign of danger he quickly retreated to his cave and boarded the entrance. Safe in his shelter, the man with 1000 eyes stood just behind the wooden planks, and pressed his ear to door. He did not emerge until the danger had passed. But even with his great caution and alertness, he could not forestall all surprise visitors to his humble valley.
One day as the man was swimming in the river, a low growl immediately behind him shattered the stillness of the autumn day. An electric shock seemed to travel from the tips of the man’s toes up to the top of his head, and his hair stood on end. He felt the presence of a large creature just behind him. He could hear its low growls, its haggard panting, and the ripples it made as it pawed the water. But the man with 1000 eyes did not turn his head to look. He remained facing the great forest. Still, all at once the dog snapped into focus. Every hair, every subtle movement, the bloodshot eyes, the long grey tongue lolling out of the panting jaws, the trail of saliva reaching down to the water’s surface, they all became visible to the man. More and more channels of sight opened up to the man with 1000 eyes. And gradually a shadowy image emerged of a duplicate dog as it wandered from the nearby town and over a steep hill. And this dog apparition approached an image of a man who was crouched in the river with his back turned. And then another scene came sharply into focus: a blind pup still drenched in afterbirth and snuggling up against its mother, a pup so small that it could fit in the palm of the man’s hand. Then another image was revealed to the man. He saw the dog leaving the valley, traveling back up the hill and back to the town. The dog remained there and lived out its entire life among the inhabitants of the village. And then finally the dog died.

>>16864512
. The man with 1000 eyes saw these things as clearly as he saw the forest in front of him.
Though low and despised creatures compared to Man, dogs have an advantage Man lacks: they are unfallen. As such, this dog was aware of the changes taking place before its eyes, aware of a manifestation of Him, in a physical being beyond this earth; and revelations that should not be known to spirits still living and breathing.
With a faint growl, which was more like a whimper, the dog turned its tail and headed for home.
Not two weeks later, the man again received visitors. Two young boys were walking beside the tall grassy hill that shielded the man’s daily swimming when they heard a splash of something large entering the water. Their curiosity piqued, they climbed up the steep hill and peered over into the valley below. And there they saw him.
“What are you doing in the river?” shouted the smaller of the two boys, a plucky little one with dark flashing eyes and a fearlessness unbefitting his slight frame.
The man’s heart caught in his chest, and he spun around to see two figures on top of the hill silhouetted against the sun. The man squinted and shielded his eyes, the two eyes that are common to all Men on this earth. And then it happened again. From one end of his head to the other, from the top to the bottom, the man opened his eyes. And the two boys shot into focus; their silhouettes were replaced with vivid color. He saw them as they were, yards away on top of the hill; but he also saw them as they looked from among the leaves of the great forest. And he saw himself as he looked from their eyes, floating down below in the wide river. But most importantly of all, he saw into their hearts.
For a long time, the man stood motionless, knee-deep in the water, staring up at the boys so intently that the hair stood on the backs of their necks. Finally, the man exhaled deeply, and then cleared his throat.
“I am an Angel of God,” he called back to them in a voice sonorous and oddly feminine, “I’m swimming in the river. You’re free to join me.”
The boys cast a glance at one another. The glance of each seemed to say to the other, “Who is this man who swims in the river and calls himself an angel? I think I might be afraid; are you? If you’re unafraid, then so am I.’
After a short pause, the boys slid down the steep, grassy hill, and arrived before the man with 1000 eyes. They walked up to the water’s edge and gazed at the man standing waist-deep in the water and holding his hands out to them. With his shoulder-length hair, his arms spread beseechingly at his sides, and his hunched posture, the man looked the spitting image of a statue located near the shrine in their village.

>>16864520
. The boys took off their shoes and shirts and joined the man in the river.
The boys swam together in the river. They raced each other from one bank to another. They dunked each other’s head into the water. The man looked on without saying a word, and they mainly kept their distance. Only once did the man see fit to intervene. Somehow the stouter of the two boys had got hold of a large terrapin and was calling it an alligator and harassing it to no end. The man freed the turtle gently from the boy’s grasp, and spoke again his mantra: “My river is open to you, for now and always. Only you must harm no living creature here, and you must take nothing with you when you leave.”
At dusk the boys said their goodbyes to the man. They said they would definitely come back to play in his river again. He watched as they climbed back up the steep, grassy hill and disappeared over the top.
Many years passed by, and the boys did not return. Life returned to normal for the man. Every day he crawled out from his cave beside the river, between a town and a great forest; he stripped down and spent the day in the river; he returned to his cave at night. He heard more frequently sounds from the town. The distance between him and them was shrinking. Society was encroaching on his isolated little world. Every day brought them closer. A clash was inevitable.
And then one day, he was visited again.
It was early morning. The man was swimming in the cool water of the river. A cloud of fog still draped its expanse, not yet depleted by the rising sun. Suddenly, the background noise of the town rose to a great din. The full-throated shouts of men approaching the hill reached his ears, accompanied by many footfalls. The man looked up at the steep hill, and he saw two large figures, silhouetted against the sun. They were pointing down at him and speaking excitedly to one another. At this distance he could not hear what they said.
Then the dam broke. A rush of over 20 men and boys began skidding down the tall slopes of the hill. The man shut his eyes, and he turned his back to them. The image of a great horde coming down the hill after him: he had seen it before, many years ago. It had been a sunny day when he was swimming in the water, and two boys came to him.
A man raced forward ahead of the pack, a wiry man with flashing black eyes. He reached the man with 1000 eyes first. And he was the first to plunge his spear into the man’s back. Then it was succeeded by another spear-thrust, and then another. The man with 1000 eyes fell face-down into the water of the river. And he breathed his last breath.
Quickly the entire crowd waded into the waist-deep water, now stained red with blood. They lifted the corpse from the water and dragged it up the hill. And then they paraded it through town.

>>16864399
That first line turned me off instantly. Then the flow of the rest is ruined for me by the constant parenthetical asides. I also disliked the fact I'm being told the the same thing three times: I'm taking an expedition. Mr. Faraday suggested I should take an expedition. "Oh Stevens, why don't you take an expedition?"

And yes, I know this is the beginning of Remains of the Day by Kazuo Ishiguro, but I despise his somnolent, humorless, shriveled prose and would rather be drowned in the swamp waters of Styx, hating from the black sulkiness which can find no joy in God or man or the universe.

Also, how are you a non-beginner if you've never been published?

>>16864399
Stop spamming published works.

>>16864464
I do that a lot.

We're going to make it bros...

>>16864444
checked, here it is, its not a very good story and probably pretty melodramatic at the end, was mainly an exercise in writing that mental experience, but i'm working on turning it into a fleshed out/thought out short story right now

If you had to choose, would you rather be a commercially successful writer like Dan Brown, but slated by critics and eventually forgotten; or write masterpieces, but remain unrecognised during your lifetime (like Melville with Moby Dick)?

>>16865075
The latter, simply because Moby Dick has irrevocably changed my life, whereas I doubt Dan Brown's entire oeuvre combined can have such an effect (no offense to Dan Brown).

I've officially written 160 pages of my non-fiction book. I can see the end

Where are my brazilians/tugas amigos? In the other day I posted an excerpt of this same short story, which it's lenght was about 5k word but now is becoming more, and I'd like some feedback for a scene/part (which is a continuation of the one I had posted).

So basically I've been writing a couple of stories chapter by chapter and have masqueraded them as fan-fiction and putting match-able character names to my characters to get people to read and critique them as I have no-one else really to read what I write.

Am I going about this in a way that is poorly thought out and is there a better alternative? From the feedback I get it's generally regarded as quite well written and is well received but I worry about two things. The other content on fanfiction sites is shitty so a comparison isn't great praise. The other thing being people aren't particularly likely to critique harshly which is something I'd like a bit more.

>>16865100
What's it on anon?

>>16862236
>mfw when I showed 15 pages of my novel to a friend and he said that its so fucking great, because its very touching and relatable and he can't wait to see the entire thing

>>16865279
You probably won't get any good advice from those people, you'll only hear what they want to read and everything they say will be in relation to what they personally want the characters do do. Also, you may think you're getting a following, but those types of people usually stick to fanfiction, so they wouldn't follow you beyond that site.
I'd maybe post it somewhere like royalroad and then ask for critiques in the forums after a few chapters. From my experience, you'll get some more detailed feedback there.
Your best bet for a good critique is to post it here with a snobby message acting like you're an amazing writer. You'll get a bunch of negatives that you can reflect on.

>>16863033
This reads exactly like a story in Dubliners.

>>16865279
Critique is only useful in the aggregate. Go to a website like critters (assuming you're writing genre, if not there's others) or start or join a writing group with at least 10+ serious writers that will all submit critique for a given piece. It's only when something is repeated by several people that you should consider paying attention to it, because many things (as evidenced by people critiquing award-winning published work ITT) are a matter of taste.

Also look to your favorite writers for critique. By this I mean the following exercise: under the title of your piece change "by [your name]" to "by [favorite author's name]". Now revise and pretend like your favorite author had written the piece--where would you not let him off the hook? You know what professional writing looks like, what it sounds like, so just start writing that way. It really is that simple--though not necessarily that easy. Likewise study the structure of your favorite works, novel, novella, short story, whatever. Try stealing the structure but writing a slightly different story. Try stealing characters. Try stealing bits of prose and dialogue. Shakespeare did it. Tolstoy stole every character he ever made from real life. Dickens stole a lot of his prose from Shakespeare and the Bible (as an annotated version of any of his works will reveal) and many of his characters were exaggerated versions of people he knew in real life. Steal, then compare to the original; you have to add value. If you can add value to what came before, it's not plagiarism.

Also keep in mind that feedback is only useful to a certain level of competency. When people can't seem to come to a consensus on their critique, you know you no longer need feedback. You just need to write and revise.

I'm working on outlining this piece which is like a sort of Indiana Jones meets The Mummy style knock-off that works as an exploration of identity and belonging during the inter-war period and a taste of the chaotic nature of the world at that time.

The problem I think I'm having is that I can't get the balance right between showing positives of in-out groups to go alongside the negatives I'm bringing up now and then and I feel like I'm not giving a clear message and my premise lends too much in terms of a futility towards things.

The idea is that the origin of the world is this kind of meta-myth style thing and all civilizations originally trace themselves back to this one original myth which has transcended space and time, the.deep unknown, primordial waters, fire theft, etc. And I'm starting to think that this being the case as revealed throughout the plot just removes a lot of the point of the book and the whole "we're all the same" shtick sounds a bit hackish in the end.

>>16865507
Eveline right? That's what I was reminded of anyway. Still like it tho

One of my secondary protagonists is a conman whose guilt is beginning to weigh him down after his con was revealed to a young man who then killed himself, now he's helping a new arrival sort of refugee to look for her missing brother in Africa(the promise of gems helps) with a sort of will he wont he abandon her thing going on. I've mostly just been researching cons and watching clips of magic and thievery which I see on youtube, The Real Hustle has been a good help actually.

But I was just wondering if there were any well written confidence men who you'd recommend I read into to see how it can be done well.

Hey guys, thanks for the support. I've finally managed to overcome the hurdle I came across yesterday when I first tried writing dialogue. It's nowhere near perfect, but I was able to write over 1000 words today and I don't think I would have dared to if it wasn't for your encouragement.

>>16865339
>>16865509
Thanks for the tips.

>>16865075
1, with 1 I could leave my job and just write (and I love writing).
With 2. I wouldn't have time for writing anything except for few masterpieces, that would suck.

>>16863508
What >>16864067 said. We learn from our failures and mistakes, and it's what makes us human.

If you make him a character who fucks up, but refuses to give up and is capable of learning from his own mistakes, then you'll have a character people will actually care about.

What name do you guys think I should give to a type of weapon in my sci-fi story? The weapon is going to be a mixture between a polearm and a ranged weapon, in that it's primarily used similar to a spear or pike, but over time (roughly every minute), it charges up enough energy to fire a shot/beam of energy.

I was thinking of just reusing a term like lance, but I'm not really convinced.

The Self-Publishing Era has arrived!
>Get woke, go broke!
Enjoy those diminishing returns Pengy! The Big 6 is now the big 5, and it will be the Big 4 once Simon and Shyster gets sold and assimilated. Better sell out quick, Shyster! Stephen King won't live forever.

>The big 5 are, of course, Hachette, HarperCollins, Macmillan, Penguin Random House and Simon & Schuster.

Count with me! https://youtu.be/B-Wd-Q3F8KM

>>16864464
>Have an idea that couldn't possibly be that long, I thought.
>outline is 25 pages long
>Story itself so far is 35 pages, still less than halfway done

>>16865286
Healthcare laws, it's a guide to filling out this 100+ page form for Medicare. I was supposed to start a job at a hospital in May, but I chickened out. But the vaccine is coming out and I'll maybe be able to work there in spring/summer 2021

>>16866133
>outline is 25 pages long
>surprised the story is less than halfway done at 35 pages
nigga
I just hit 84k words on my story. I think I was in a similar position to you, 50k words ago. I think I'm halfway done now. My "outline" is like 2 visible excel tabs. You might have a long way to go.

I think this is it bros. I've written millions of words in my life, but I've finally started writing something I genuinely feel could be great. I think this might be the one I genuinely edit and try to publish.

>>16866422
Can I see screenshot of excel tables?

>>16865944
Pew-pew prongs
Energy spewers
Energy skewers
Dildo blasters
Ranged polearm weapons
Strikepikes
Tridentular Boomboom Blasteroos

Where you at, Nanowrimobros?

>>16866777
I can't, this is the most I'll do with what I have, basically this is up to where I am now, beginning of day 6, where everything changes, again. Text goes up to V on the tabs at most. To put it in perspective up to beginning of day 6 is 55k words. This doesn't include the events leading to the inciting incident which was like 25k words by itself.
Looking at this I deviated quite a bit. Day 1 and 2 are essentially the same but because of 2 characters I added day 2 morning and reintroduced day 2 night the rest of the days got altered, alot. So day 3 day is different, but day 3 night is the same. Day 4 is totally new. Day 5 got the event of day 4 as well as the thing I was thinking about doing on day 4 as well. Day 6 location changed events will be the same. Other tab is behind the scenes stuff. I had to calculate certain events at specific hours. Some stuff happens during the day others when they're sleeping.

>>16867036
We're too busy not being gay

My hole plots hinges on Masturbatoriums existing in ancient Rome but I can't find any articles to prove their existence

>>16867376
*whole
how embarrassing

>>16867379
A plot hole eh?

>>16867387
>>16867376
How about the Romans fuck the hole in the plot instead of masturbating?

>>16867376
Just because they don't exist doesn't mean they're not real.
>taps temple twice

>>16867281
To add to this the best decision I made by far was adding those 2 other characters on a whim. Wanted to see how the MC would react to them and then the chemistry between everything really made it great. Obviously you can see I'm not exactly an outline kind of guy, but this sort of framework I think really gives you just enough skeleton to let yourself bring the story wherever. Very happy with the way things have been going. Was thinking about starting to post this on Retard Road at like 35k words but got into the swing of things and didn't want to have to stop drafting to edit, or deal with potential retcons, only a handful at this point. Real happy I decided to keep trucking along.

>>16866422
I didn't know the outline itself would be so long either. /(`o`)\

Anyone else come here for the ego boost of seeing how much better they are than the other people on this board? You guys all have boring stories.

>>16867500
Post your work if you're so great

>>16862148
I did it anons. I fucking wrote something. I've always been interested in writing, but have never had the time to get into it. I saw an announcement for a fanfic contest for a series I like and decided to enter. I submitted mine an hour ago. It might not be good, but if feels great to have finished something.

>>16867787
Nice job, anon. Keep at it.

>>16867787
Good job anon! Let us know if you win!

>>16867787
Good, now write something that isn't fanfiction.

>>16864209
Good.
>>16864526
>>16864520
>>16864512
Tedious.
>>16867036
I got a job and barely have 5000 words.
Kill me. I just started again today, feels nice.

>have novels plotted out
>superdetailed outlines
>chapters with what happens and dialogue
>everything done
But my prose bros. It's so fucking bad. I have no idea how to improve. I'm at the point where I'm going to have to find a partner and became the Coen Brothers of novels.

>>16868354
>too lazy to write his own prose
Literally cope!

>>16868367
I have been trying for years and it's not improving. I read and write everyday for about four hours in total.

>>16868374
Post prose or drop dead.

>>16868383
I'll post some flash fiction prompts I have answered recently.
https://pastebin.com/fW9q1Lgv
https://pastebin.com/eyfgbm2m

>>16863033
Very much like all the other drivel posted on here.

>>16868391
>https://pastebin.com/fW9q1Lgv
Wow, this reads like an autistic crab person wrote it. What the hell is wrong with you?

Anyone know if they've been accepted to the new issue of /lit/ quarterly yet? I'm so nervous bros

Has anyone in this thread even been published before?

>>16868415
Yes... in the Coronameron.

>>16868391
Oh boy a retard afraid of using "said".

>>16868391
Okay, I take it back. But the opening of that first paste was unnaturally horrid.

https://pastebin.com/h91ixDX8

Would you read an entire novel written like this?

>>16868489
>https://pastebin.com/h91ixDX8
No. Why would I want to do that?

>>16868410
>>16868424
>>16868472
Thanks for the feedback. I'm thinking of joining some sort of workshop at my uni. I'm a law student but know a few English degree dudes. I'm also starting to read those how to write poetry books maybe that will improve my shit.

>>16868415
Yes, on Royal Road

>>16868417
>>16868424
So no.

How do I accept I suck? I'm not fishing for compliments, I was a big fish in a very small and stupid pond. I'm honestly barely average. How do I accept that the first several things I write will be bad? I have a few ideas for stories, but I keep talking myself out of writing them. I tell myself I should save that idea for when I'm really good, but I can't get good unless I do. How do I practice being creative?

>>16868608
>How do I accept I suck?
Sounds to me like you already did.
>How do I practice being creative?
Pick random images from your image folder and write about them.

>>16868608
You're always gonna be shit in the beginning, no matter what it is you're doing. Knowing you're trash and wanting to improve is what's important. As for what you should do to practice being creative: Experiment with as many forms as you can. You'll see pretty quickly what your natural strengths are (I, for example, started with micro poetry of all things before moving on to free verse, short stories, and eventually full books). Every small creative effort you make will help you in the long-run. You're right to say you aren't ready for a full work yet, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't start writing smaller things right now.

>>16864590
>I despise this somnolent prose
It's one of the great examples of the medium fitting the story, anon. How else would a buttler write other than in a stuffy, tedious, overly cautious manner?

>>16865239
Ainda aqui, amigo. Posta.

>>16867403
Laffed

>>16867500
Anons who post good OC > anons who post bad OC >>>>>>>>> anons who post no OC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dumb anime posters (you are here)

i often come up with a beautiful turn of phrase, i google it to see if any of the great writers got there before me and it turns out it's already appeared in some amateur erotic novel

>>16868608
What's with this clown notion that your first book has to suck? All you have to do is rewrite the book till it's good. You don't have to release a shitty book. My first book is going to be a hit because any bad book will be rewritten

I shamelessly copy from other writers but I just do it better than them so no one complains.

>>16867500
Yeah, but unlike you, I actually try to give anons advice to help them improve.

If you are a 5 on this chart, it means you have Aphantasia which is why you will never be able to write a good book.

>>16869198
people will deny it, just like people deny it on /ic/. But then you witness their work and you know: they cannot ever make it.

>>16869198
How could anyone get anything other than a 1? It's the only thing that looks like an apple

>>16869226
I guess some people's mothers smoked during pregnancy. It must be awful to not be able to "see" in your brain

>>16869300
This is almost as weird as people who read without subvocalizing. I guess the NPC meme is real but damn

>>16869198
I can visualise everything I think about, my vivid imagination is so good I literally can spend hours on bed visualising scenes for my book

never written fantasy, I want to learn fantasy worldbuilding so I started a shitty litrpg isekai novel
MC dies with a few guys and they meet god or an angel or whatever who tells them they'll reincarnate
But that looks retarded, how do I make it more interesting?

>>16869679
never written romance, I want to learn about romantic relationship development so I started a shitty vampire-werewolf S/M fapfic
But that looks retarded, how do I make it more interesting?

>>16863033
I think this is very well written, better than most of the OC that gets posted here. Like others have said though i don't see why I should care about Helen and her running away, but I would keep reading to see where it goes which I guess it's the main job of the intro paragraph. Good job, ignore the haters

Holy fuck, I'm at page 240 of my non-fiction hospital book. Just two more short chapters, and a basic cover with Gimp, and I'm ready to send it off to Amazon KDP

>>16869679
>"I want to learn how to drive a car so I started to teach myself how to ride a bike."
>"But this thing goes so slow and I need to use my own feet to pedal it. Any ideas how I can go faster without using my own strength?"
Your best bet is to write fantasy. You don't need to know anything beforehand, just write a cool scene in a cool place and roll with the punches for a while and by necessity you will develop the world. You can make it sound like you knew what you were talking about later in the rewrite, or you could scrap the book when you come up with a good idea and just use the same world in the better story.

>>16868415
yes, i got a short piece published in the second issue of a small magazine. it's nothing, but it was something to me.

-What's life been? -An exam of love,

smiles and tears, fighting and hope!

We've found divine two eyes that look

and read with time the soul of books.

This only chance for being brave...

before we have to close the grave!

To scream and laugh, to hug and dance.

To cry and kiss. This only chance.

In the end, you'll have a kingdom:

a happy realm of memory and wisdom.

Listen! The old couple under a tree

have whispered a secret for being free!

-We both, somehow awaiting our death

enjoy for now the luxury of breath.

>>16867787
Congrats.

>>16867500
Everything about your post makes me confident I'm a better writer than you.

>>16868415
At least a couple.

>>16868608
You have to write with conscious effort to improve and keep going. Enjoy the process. Think of it as lifting weights or something like that. Not wasted time but necessary, making you stronger. The only way is to go through. You don't have to publish everything you write. You probably shouldn't. But I wouldn't worry too much about wasting ideas. Ideas are easy. I recommend using https://www.typelit.io/ as much as possible for writing practice.

>>16869976
Good job, anon! Is the magazine still going?

You'll be at an advantage. I hear a lot of higher-tier journals don't like taking on unpublished writers, so if you can say "I have been published in X magazine" you might find you have a better chance of acceptance. I've only applied to the top review-type magazines and on every single one I've had to write "previously unpublished".

When you are deep in writing, how clearly can you visualize into your head what you're putting into the page? A buddy of mine told me that he sees it like a movie, playing out scene by scene. I only get static flashes, like paintings or drawings.

>>16870284
>like a movie, playing out scene by scene
Exactly this, I see it like a movie, I hear voices of my characters like a schizo. I just write what I see and then add emotions, feelings, make it prettier with prose etc

>>16870025
Beautiful. Reminds me of William Blake.

>>16870025
I don't usually read poetry but this feels really good, I feel love.

>>16870284
I cant pretty much see and hear anything I try to. With effort I can even smell and taste things, but that takes so much focus I can't actually do anything else.

>one episodic character is a poet
>want to write a good poem by him
>don't know anything about poetry

>>16870025
I liked it anon, I think it has great potential. My favourite lines were 3-8, flowed beautifully and the right syllables were stressed.

Line 9 changes your structure and opens with a stressed syllable, rather than unstressed as the preceding lines were. It disrupted the flow of the poem for me. This is exacerbated further by line 10, which while I appreciate the sentiment, I don't think worked so well-- you've returned to opening on an unstressed syllable, but there are 10 syllables in the line which overstretch it. If you were set on keeping the line, I would change it to "happy realms of mem'ry, wisdom", but I think in order to match the great quality up to line 8 you should rework the remaining lines into 8-syllables and keep the same iambic pattern with the stressed and unstressed syllables. It would elevate it to something really special.

>>16870353
You could write an intentionally mediocre poem to out him as being a pseud? Try a sonnet, they're easy to construct, and notoriously difficult to do well.

How would you write a text message in a short story? Italics? Bold? Speech marks?

>>16870284
kek

see this >>16869198

>publisher wants you to write romance
How am I supposed to do this when I'm a virgin who's never had a girlfriend? Like I fucking know how to write actual chemistry.

>>16862148
When you write, do any of you have weird postures? I tip my head to the right until my rests on my shoulder. I don't even notice it happen.

New scene is up on Royal Road.

Has anyone on /lit/ EVER in the history of /lit/ written a book that was successful/good? All LARP's aside, has this happened? I need to know because I don't want 4chan's curse on me just from being here. I feel like even typing in this thread dooms me for failure like the rest of you guys.

>>16868710
The fact that he chose the most tedious pov for the whole novel automatically disqualifies him. Compare to Tolstoy's Death of Ivan Illyich. Tolstoy does not begin with the "most simple, most ordinary, and therefore most terrible" pov of Ivan, but of some young clerk from his court. And even then he maintains enough narrative distance (slowly dollying in only when Ivan is near his transformation, or to briefly to punctuate some point or irony) to maintain reader interest.

Ishiguro is a "literary" writer, but unlike say, Nabokov, there is nothing at all delightful about his aesthetic. All his novels are tiresome, not just thi sone. It's like if the rotten corpse of Dickens had written something: no pulse, no blood; pure zombie fiction.

>>16870585
Read a few and do some practice.
But really
>publisher wants me to write X
Feels like a larp because I've never been "told" by my agent what to write before. Get a new agent.

>>16870732
Yes, we have traditionally published anons here. Whether it's two or five is nearly impossible to tell because they're all understandably hesitant to talk about their work. Last thread there was an anon who posted pages from one of their books.
Stop fucking asking this question.

Does anyone else wish they had a girlfriend they could talk to their book about and she will help you when you're stuck and even give you ideas and constant feedback? Whenever you get frustrated she cheers you on and having someone who constantly believes in you to make sure you stay focused.

>>16870585
>publisher wants you to write romance

>Be anon
>I'm a socially awkward author
>Present manuscript to big tiddied publisher lady
>"That's very cool anon, but I think you should write some romance."
>"But I never had a girlfriend"
>"Oh poor Anon! It's never too late, you know..."
>She steps closer
>"I think you should grab the closest woman and ask her out"
>She puts a hand on my shoulder, looks me in the eyes and winks
>I look down and sigh. "I'll think about it..."
>I leave and ask /lit/ for advice

>>16870353
>one character is a musician
>don't know shit about music but want to include some songs
>start writing lyrics, just whatever comes to mind
>out of nowhere, start to hear the music in my head
>spend half the night writing the song, thinking what instruments to include and how, have tons of fun
Damn, maybe I picked the wrong career

>>16870828
I have this unironically. She doesn't really help with feedback for the story. But she's a professional editor who edits my work for me. Very comfy. In return I help her with her stories since she has a hard time outlining.

>>16870732
Don't worry anon, even if this "curse" is real, I doubt that it has any bearing on your ability to produce anything worthwhile.

>>16870828
Anon please stop, don't do this to me

>>16870828
When I was in high school, I had a girl who was interested in the stuff I was writing and gave me good feedback on it
I was too much of an introverted sperg to ever ask her out and we drifted apart after graduation
I could've had it all but I fucking blew it

I'm writing a lil something in line with most mil sci fi, colonization, post war shortage/economy/reconstruction without too many boring details about it I want opinions on how much is too much when it comes to world building, I don't want to release a novel of backstory for my novel but I struggle to bleed out the information in dialog considering characters in the scope of the novel are far removed from the events or would never have recollection

>>16870828
Sounds more like a cheerleader/editor than a girlfriend. I wouldn't want to talk shop at home

I need a good waffle joke or situation to end my climax with, please help. I just copypasted this dumb joke but I need something better.
>What’s the best part of a waffle? The w. Without it it’s just awful.

>>16868608
Unlike others ITT I won't try to coddle you. My advice? Give up. If your intention is to "make it", and you're barely even average--quit while you're ahead. Stop wasting your finite time with something you're not good at. Would you encourage someone who can barely do a layup to pursue professional basketball? Would you encourage someone who can barely play Frére Jaques to become a concert pianist? You know they won't make it and you know that you won't make it. Don't feed delusion. There is no way to "practice" creativity, either you're creative or you're not. You don't "get good". You start good and get better. Don't wake up twenty years from now realizing you could've taken equal pleasure from some other art or activity, wherein you might have stood with the very best, but instead you pursued something for which--by your own admission!--you have no aptitude. Release yourself from this self-imposed obligation. You'll immediately feel a sense of relief and within the month, you'll find something much better to spend your time on.

>>16870585
>How am I supposed to do this when I'm a virgin who's never had a girlfriend? Like I fucking know how to write actual chemistry.
IDK about romance novels, but you're great at coming up with light novel titles, evidently.

>>16870870
kek

>>16870869
This is mostly reasonable, if not necessarily correct advice, but only insofar as anon has perfect self-awareness and knowledge of his objective skill. Also, while there is no way to "practice" creativity, it's certainly something that can be improved through maturation.

>>16870859
You guys need to learn subtlety, sometimes not adding any worldbuilding ADDS to the worldbuilding because it leaves it up to the readers imagination. Most of the fun to good worldbuilding is the reader filling in the gaps with their imagination about how the world function. If you just spoil every detail about your world to the reader then that thrill goes away. It's like having a big bad villain at the end and the reader is just waiting for the inevitable showdown which makes the trip to getting to the villain be boring as fuck since the reader is already expecting that outcome. If the shit isn't related to the main plot and doesn't flesh out the characters then you don't have to add it in. If you save that shit for its own separate story it makes your world feel more like an exciting adventure.

>>16870860
that's the whole point to getting a girlfriend.

>>16870585

>>16868608
read more, write more, rewrite some novel you like, practice your prose and don't listen to that >>16870869 faggot, prove him wrong, you are better than that

>>16870828
Don't bother. Find girls who wants to read your stuff and play the mysterious author card. The trick is to not engage them on a realistic level which is by having a girlfriend reading your stuff isn't as nice, because they know you as a person and it's harder to separate the text from the author. Having three or four bitches who think you're some cool author guy and anxiously await first drafts is the superior way to go.

>>16870907
imagine associating with women and not having sex with them.

>>16870869
My own experience when I wanted to be a painter. Especially since i was drawing much better than others when I started out but my progress was unusually slow until I made a conscious and honest assessment about my skill and gave up. There were other things i was better at. It just takes a while to change your inner image of yourself, the aesthetics of your worldview and, perhaps, it might take some time accepting "defeat"- but it really isn't defeat.

It's important to look at it from a business perspective. Imagine you are your company and you produce shit and can't innovate- it might be necessary to change the product line or double down on what you really are good at.

>>16870904
I know nothing about that man, but suddenly I am overcome by the urge to find and hug him.

>>16870926
The two aren't mutually exclusive. Pretending you're a romantic hotshot in a one night stand is the perfect way to sneak into their hearts.

So I want to pander to the litrpg crowd (For shame! For shame! I know). But I hate video games with a passion. Can a story without any game reference, and only have stats and abilities, skills, magic items, but otherwise run off the mill fantasy be considered litrpg? Would it still attract the readers of this genre without all the game thing?

>>16870891
show don't tell and less is more, sounds good

>>16870945
You'd bully him if you'd meet him on the street.

>>16870969
Isn't what you're describing all litrpg? Anything else would be fanfiction.

>>16868415
I was published in a book of poetry when I was like 8 years old.

>>16870969
LitRPG is not about games, LitRPG is just a story with RPG references like stats, abilities, skills, magic and shit
you don't need some retards trapped in a vidya

What's the most racist thing you got away with in a published book?

>>16870992
Possibly. Only if he really needs it, though.

>>16871026
"You should understand," he whispered. "Despite being only 11% of the population, Dark Elves commit 62% of all crimes here. So why you ask? Can't you do math?"

Sci-fi question: how's the "natural" lighting in outer space?
Are starts bright enough to illuminate the side of a spaceship or would it be pretty much pitch black without a local star or artificial lights?

>>16871103
I imagine its the equivalent of standing in a remote field at night when the stars come out.

>>16871054
what kind of shitty story got dark elves in a world where they do data analytics on crimes

>>16870530
Bump for this

>>16870530
Doesn't matter. The publisher will fix it. If you're putting it on RR, no one will care about the formatting as long as it's consistent.

>>16871000
>>16871022
I honestly haven't read more than one chapter of any of those litrpg story. But I notice an usual trope is the "ding ding you have leveled up" thing. So basically it's not being trapped in a game literally but always they play it straight like God or some mysterious gm is forcing a game-like system on the protagonist.
Since pandering to the lowbrow crowd is the only one way to get quick cash nowadays, I'm willing to include stats and abilities, but not a whole system. Something like telling a story normally but also include a character sheet on the side like in dnd or something

>>16870969
Yes, that's what I did with mine. Haven't uploaded anything in months but I have another 100k written for it waiting to be edited and uploaded at some point. Though at this rate I'll write all 20 arcs before uploading again.

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/24941/sky-sight

>>16870969

>it's the "anon attempts to pander to an imaginary audience but only produces shit no one touches" episode

>your story is shit
>rewrite it
>your story is suddenly good, proofreader says it's very interesting and wants to read more as a reader
I'm going to make it.

>>16872087
Great job anon. Nothing beats that feeling of validation. You always suspect friends, family etc of having a bias towards you, and critiques in these thread are often given by spiteful old misers jealous of others progress or else generally tasteless pseuds. A beta reader is about as objective as you'll get, and if they like it, you're onto a winner.

>>16872087
you've made it king

>Oh, so you're a writer? Did you publish anything?
>Oh, so you're a basketball player? Do you play for NBA?
>Oh, so you play video games? Do you play for a pro team?
>Oh, so you like drinking? Do you have a sommelier certificate?
>Oh, so you like gym? Are you a bodybuilder? Can you deadlift 300 kg (661 pounds)?
>Oh, so you train boxing? Did you fight for World Boxing Organisation's championship?

>>16872087
where do you find proofreaders?

the funny thing is if you spend enough time at any of those you should go pro haha

>>16872228
>Did you publish anything?
While I agree that's not a requirement for writing, it's a normal question that's more similar to:
>Oh, so you're a basketball player? Are you on any local teams?

It pisses me off how people don't get Spider-Man as a character. He is supposed to be an angry nerd who gets powers. The movies take away that anger for a cookie cutter tumblr / reddit protagonist that makes 0.0 faces at everything whilst being devoid of any opinion. Raimi Spider-Man at least had some balls to him.

I might write a superhero story with a kid on the verge of going full school shooter in his angst. Him getting powers and eventually becoming a hero would mean a lot more than someone who is mr nice from birth.

>>16872327
It's a story for children, anon.

>>16872325
This. Anyone with some experience writing and a modicum of skill can get a short story accepted by a magazine. In your list it would be better to put "oh, you're a writer? Have you won the Nobel Prize in Literature?"

>>16872228
Saying you're a writer implies it's your job, if it's your job it's logical to find out how successful you are.
If you imply you work as a basketball player or a gamer itd logical to ask how successful you are.

>>16872335
I'm not saying Spider-Man should be a school shooter, though. I'm saying even the little angst he has isn't given time. Also saying its a story for children is a lazy way to miss the point.

>>16870657
Maybe post a link so more anons are inclined to read them?

>>16872327
How does him being an angry nerd add to his character? That's just unappealing anon, people like to imagine what it's like to be a cool superhero like spiderman, they don't want to imagine what it's like to be an angry incel

How do people write web novels without writing their self in a corner? When I write my books I sometimes have to erase entire chapters because they didn't work out in the long run.

>>16872848
By discarding any desire for quality in exchange for quality.

>>16872848
By discarding any desire for quality in exchange for quantity.

>>16872848
By discarding any desire for quantity in exchange for quantity.

>>16872804
It might come down to personal taste, but the more negative a hero is whilst still being a hero is the balance that makes them appealing.

>>16872894
Normies don't like that, they want to be inspired.

>>16872902
Fuck normies. I'm writing for the niche patrician market. The normies will just on the hype train later.

>>16872905
>I'm writing for the niche patrician market
So what do you write?

>>16872848
I had an early chapter where I struggled to write it because I didn't know what I was doing, but I managed to pull through by eventually just outlining it in my head.
I avoid this issue by doing a combination of pants and plants writing. For stuff on a by-chapter basis I try and do summary bullet-points of things that may occur in the happen and that I don't adhere to much to and deviate if needed. For major plot stuff, I already have them vaguely planned out, though.

What's the best book for learning about worldbuilding?

>>16872948
Wikipedia

>>16872972
Your imagination.
Experience.

>>16872977
>>16872948

>>16872948
You shouldn't even focus on worldbuilding to begin with. This is a trap that new writers fall into. They just create maps and histories while not actually putting words down on paper. Just add to the world what you immediately need.

>>16872848
What the other anon said about quality, but also you write ahead. I write about 10 chapters ahead, so that I have a grace period where I can change stuff if I need to before it gets uploaded. You can edit them at any time, as well, so you could just tweak your past chapters to keep them fully cohesive with later content.

Man I hate that I make 90% of my income writing shitty erotica that people buy while ignoring my other serious works

>>16873039
Welcome to the human race.

>>16873039
How do I sell shitty erotica? Where can I sell it?

>>16868715
Opa.

(1)

― Não mata ninguém, esse aí. ― com risada, disse um espectador da contenda.

Ninguém sabia por que ou como começou, mas certo era que entretinha. A dança acabou quando Sebastian caiu empurrando os dançarinos do centro, mas a roda continuou seus batuques. O mercenário ergueu-se cerrando os dentes.

― Eu vou matar você.
― Ah, não vai não.

Correu até o patife com os braços abertos para agarrá-lo. Porém, ele facilmente se desviou e empurrou as costas de Sebastian que, no impulso da investida, se desequilibrou e bateu direto na parede, derrubando um candeeiro e lamparina sobre si. Estava muito bêbado. Se deixasse, gozariam dele até o raiar do dia. A desonra já era de mais. Então sacou a espada.

― Cavalheiros, e as apostas? ― o oponente apelou à plateia, que respondeu em assovios e gritos.

Mais alto o som dos aplausos e das batidas, a gritaria fez com que todos fossem olhar o que estava acontecendo, exceto Antonio e Coen. O taverneiro via a cena detrás do balcão, assustado das consequências daquela luta, mas sedento pela oportunidade financeira. À espera de uma abertura, Sebastian apenas brandia a espada, de um lado e pro outro, tonto. Seu adversário também andava de um lado e pro outro, calmamente, buscando provocar uma investida como dantes.

― Vou contar pra vocês. Eu já fui um soldado. E quando estava em treinamento, tinha um mestre que sempre me dizia, “um cego não faz uma espada cega.”

E no meio das salvas ao dito de bêbado, um espectador saiu da multidão e segurou Sebastian por trás. Ele se contorceu. Tentou bater com o pomo da espada na testa dele. Não viu que seu oponente lambia os lábios ao tirar uma faca do bolso. Avançou mirando o peito do mercenário. Quando Sebastian viu, veio o susto, mas também a entrega.

Um vulto de corte vertical, veloz. Os gritos, as palmas, naquele instante tudo parou, pois a mão segurando a faca caiu, e os presentes voltaram seus olhares fervos de vingança para Altair. Era isso que o taverneiro temia. O homem da mão cortada chorava de dor, e seu comparsa, que segurava Sebastian, soltou-o e se afastou. Altair puxou sua segunda espada e desafiou todos. Mas alguma coisa nele converteu até a bravura ébria em medo, porque ninguém se arriscou.

Depois que Altair tirou o colega grogue da roda e levou-o a um canto, a multidão só recuperou o fulgor quando o próprio taverneiro saiu do balcão, entrou na roda e chutou pra longe a mão ensanguentada. Os demais, estupefatos, retomaram os humores, porém com menos afinco que antes.

>>16873054
Amazon. Write a story, pay for a cover of half naked people, pay for advertising, profit.

>>16868715
>>16873058
(2)

― Se divertiu?
― Por que se meteu? É tudo inútil. Não faz sentido. Essa cidade pra onde Coen está nos levando, não existe. Até os loucos sabem disso.

Sebastian ofegava. Altair observou-o desinteressado. Mal dormido, caído no chão com o gibão desajeitado, indistinguia-se de um esconjurado. Em seguida, Altair diz:

― Você queria morrer? Ali?
― Podem me deixar que eu fico aqui. Amanhã, diga ao Coen―
― Eu não me importo com nada disso. Mas eles estão vindo.

Só então Sebastian olha para Altair e vê que os olhos dele estavam brancos, irradiando uma luz leve.

― Eles quem?
― Os que vão matar vocês.

Enfim quietude. Em todo aquele ínterim, apesar dos esforços, Antonio custou a dormir. Insone, se perdia no entorno. Olhou a balestra encostada num canto perto. Três flechas. Com um tiro certeiro havia uma para cada um, confiava, caso as coisas saíssem do controle. Esperava não chegar a tanto. Perto dele, atrás, estava Coen, deitado de lado. Sono leve. Em volta do corpo dele sentia um peso afundar o assoalho, assim lhe parecia. Não conseguia concluir o que era, pois Coen estava virado pra outra direção. O que encontrariam na cidade? Glória ou fortuna, não foi por isso que começou essa viagem. Sabia dos rumores, as lendas, mas como todos os outros lugares por quais já passou, o que o movia era a curiosidade. Mais do que conhecê-la, seus olhos precisavam saber a verdade. Coen lhe dera a rara oportunidade de então vê-la.

― Se eu morrer... ― Coen disse de repente, com uma pausa. ― Quero que levem meu cadáver até a cidade.

Pensamentos inoportunos são engolidos pelo sono, escuridão calou a noite, luzes foram apagadas...

>>16873012
Anon I already finished writing the entire plot for my story and I'm at the editing stage. However the world I have is far too basic. I want it to feel exciting.

>>16873063
It's that easy?
How long are your books?

>>16873063
How much profit are we talking? What kind of erotica do you write? I'm already making about 50$ a week from writing smut on commission at the moment.

>>16873063
Post your erotica so I can assess a potential business opportunity for myself.

At what point do I get an editor? I finished my story but it needs improvement on things like character personalities and fleshing out the world. Would an editor help with this?

>>16873093
No that's what a developmental editor does. You can often find them at the same place you would find an editor that does line editing and proofreading.

It goes

1) Developmental Edit (broad picture stuff + characters)
2) Line Edit (structuring chapters and paragraphs so they read well)
3) Proofreading, for small issues / typos.

Here's an example of a site that offers these kind of services: thefinishedlineedit com

>>16873108
Do all modern authors get their stuff analyzed by several editors?
At what point in history did this become a thing?
I know having your friends look at your writing and give you feedback has always been a thing but at what point did writers become so scared of imperfections?

>>16873162
From personal experience I would wager all writers save savants have editors. It is easy to assume writers don't because for SOME FUCKING BULLSHIT REASON editors aren't credited on books. If you look at Ernest Cline's Ready Player One (and Two) I can assure you it was even more of a mess before a professional editor got their hands on it.

A professional editor will tighten your prose to a point that what you've written stops feeling like you're writing, but the work of an actual professional's. I can look at my own page of writing and think 'damn that's pretty good', but after a professional editor has gone over it it's funny how much was wrong with it, it just felt like the best it could be at the time because I'm not an editor and I can't reach the same standard; but once the changes are made for the better than it is easier to spot other improvements that can be made.

It is very worthwhile getting an editor. The only reason not to is if you are as confident in your writing that you don't need to get it edited by anyone except yourself.

>>16873184
Editors do not deserve credit ever. Editors are replaceable. I'm not.

>>16873209
It's like a director for a film taking credit for the editing when they didn't physically edit it themselves. Of course they have major input, but they didn't have the time or skill to do it on their own. Yet movie editors get credit. It's not worth debating I suppose, just is what it is.

>>16873209
Based. Why would some guy get credited for changing some words and rewriting random sentences to make them prettier?
It's my book, it's my story.

>>16873068
Sounds like you're at the outline stage. Not the editing stage. Start actually drafting and little pieces will fall into place for worldbuilding

>>16873217
see>>16873214

>>16873214
Do you think anyone is going to google the editor for game of thrones and go "boy I can't wait to read more books by this editor!" Get the fuck out of here

>>16873284
Of course not. I've made my point take it or leave it.

>>16873184
>for SOME FUCKING BULLSHIT REASON editors aren't credited on books
Who the fuck cares about editors
Do you think people would read a book because their favourite editor John Smith edited a few words?

>>16873650
I think people care as much as they would about the inner copyright address of the publishing rights in the book. If you can have a page for that then you can have one line for 'Edited by X'.

>open Scrivener to start writing
>immediately beset by doubt again
Not again fuck

>contests still want you to send them physical manuscripts instead of just sending things on email
whyyyy

>>16870795
He was some fag writing fantasy, I'm talking about real books

>>16873726
It's comfier to read.

>want to write, have ideas and energy
>have to work all day tomorrow
just kill me bros

>tfw just realised my style is not my style, I just stole it from my two favourite authors and merged together

Writing some verse, care to fill in the blank?

When fantasy from memory springs, it bears a heavy weight
Though beauteous and free it seems, this weight shall fix its course
And from this _______ and central force, rarely will it stray
But round its master this fair hound shall dutifully obey

anybody write non-fiction or instructive text?

>>16873999
that's your style, anon
you merged them together into your own thing, that's more than a lot of fags end up doing

>>16867036
I'm proud of you, anon.

>>16873999
what authors?

>>16871922
I'm ashamed of myself too anon, but I tried, really tried to write my own story but no one so much as glanced at it. Yet I love writing so much I'm willing to pander to eventually get enough cash to make writing a full time job.

Do you feel that when you write more, you read less, and when you read more, you write less? Since I started to write more frequently I feel like I'm reading less and less due the lack of time in the day.

>>16873999
That's what everyone does. Plenty of authors talk about stealing voice and style from whatever they're reading, stephen king especially. It's why they say that if you're writing fantasy, you should read fantasy, because it's common to emulate whatever you're reading.
Also, it's not called stealing or copying, it's called inspiration.

Reminder that if you're not consistently getting the highest grade in the class on your writing assignments, you're not a good writer.

>>16874612
who the fuck goes to school nigga

What are your guys favourite writers and how does that inspire your work? What do you want to/mostly write about?

>>16874214
>And from this _______ and central force, rarely will it stray

And from this swirling central force, rarely will it stray
And from this whirling central force, rarely will it stray
And from this set and central force, rarely will it stray
And from this path and central force, rarely will it stray
And from this chart and central force, rarely will it stray
And from this grasping central force, rarely will it stray
And from this strong and central force, rarely will it stray

>>16874636
My biggest most recent inspiration that directly inspired to write is Carlo Zen, though I'm not writing isekai, both the anime and LN got me out of doing stuff like >>16873012
for several years prior to September 2019. I'm writing a sci-fi space opera with anime girls.

I have loads of short stories I wrote at work when I was in the fire department. Mostly slice of life and sci-fi. Should I publish for fun? Do I bundle them up as a collection or leave them as separate short stories. They are like 35-80 pages each typically

>>16875189
I have loads that go poot out of my willy

>>16867036
Not anywhere near finished. I'm worried no one will have the attention for so many words.

How do I construct narratives without randomly coming up with a single "cool" plot point and constructing everything around it?

>>16874295
I'm sorry for you, but maybe you should've tried to fix the problems with the first one, instead of going on to be bad on purpose? Because I don't think it helps.

>>16874773
>My biggest most recent inspiration that directly inspired to write is Carlo Zen
Same, youjo senki is really well written, I'm surprised how good it is

It was Jeremy. The tall boy born in January.

"Hey there's the butterfly boy" he says to his friends.
"Hey Butterfly Boy" he chides.

The group of boys mobilize into an echo

"Hey Butterfly Boy" they repeat in sloppy unison.

The group is walking in front of Daniel. And although he wishes he could just drop his head and posture even lower while slinking away, Daniel cannot avoid the confrontation.

Some weird rube goldberg machine effect occurs when adolescents socially digress amongst their classmates in a group. Something like a sorting machine can (if one is unlucky, perhaps by phase of moon or unfortunate planetary alignment) set in motion a series of negative group based judgments leading to an in-group/out-group branding that marks the transgressor with a status so low that the in-group may consider it entirely unbound from the rules that govern themselves. Making the branded out-group member available for treatment in any way the in-group may deem. It should also be noted that the offensive in-group behavior can become amplified in emotional sentiment through an echoing effect wherein each member is not only consciously committed to belonging to the group but is also competing within the group hierarchy to out-perform each member through group approved behaviours.

These combined factors translated from abstract to reality in the form of Daniel being beaten pretty severely by the group of boys he encountered on his walk home.

Daniel had failed to accurately convey the meaning of life to the boys. And in his failure, through poor verbal and artistic skill amongst several other reasons, may as well have just drawn a target with the circles while placing it onto his stomach and telling each one of them to punch here.

"Hey Faggot" Shouted one boy in the back, hidden and fearless.

This riled the other boys. The amplitude of derision increased with each boy competing to creatively insult Daniel, the out-group member, as a show of in-group cohesion and personal group ranking.

It's not dehumanization. There is full awareness that the out-group member is human. There is just, a sort of primal tribal unison that takes over. Daniel is not their kind of human.

The chance to reaffirm who they are inside their group and who their group is in contrast to others has overtaken them with a fleeting intensity most of those boys will never fully be able to articulate when they are grown and older and think back distantly about this day and how they spoke prophanely of Daniel's father and mother and sister, their family's low income and status; how they derided his size, face shape, intelligence, body, haircut and future.

And suddenly what you would not do to a dog, you would do to a human. Suddenly, violence.

>>16874612
>Reminder that if you're not consistently getting the highest grade in the class on your writing assignments, you're not a good writer.
Bro you have to be an adult to post here

>>16876877
>youjo senki is really well written

lol. I couldn't even get through the prologue of volume 1. It starts with such a boring, rambling, nihilistic, cringy monologue, I dropped it on the spot.

>>16869831
yeah! I did it!

>>16876739
Imo a story is a story, regardless of its genre, I believe even in the most trashy genre you can still write a masterpiece. I'm fully aware that my first story has problems, but I can't grow by navel gazing and improving by myself. I want people to look at it, trash it if they will, and the only way is to write something they are willing to read in the first place.

>>16877514
>I believe even in the most trashy genre you can still write a masterpiece.
That's true, but if you start out with the attitude that you're "pandering" to a crowd with a work that's "not your own" with the end goal of making quick cash, then what else can the result be but hideous garbage? You're looking down on your readers before you've put out a single word.

>>16862248
Can I get multiple insights on this? I really don't know the truth; what are the pros and cons of self-publishing on something like Amazon versus going traditional?

Honestly for me it wouldn't really feel like I had completed a work of value until I held a physical copy of it in my hands.

>>16872948
The Bible

>>16877535
I think you're right. I still want to finance myself with my writing though, and I think most "lowbrow" writers have money in mind when they're writing. You really can only find the writing for fun attitude on lit. Well, at least I will make sure also to grow my respect for the reader base.

I sit in a bush by the cemetery fence and wait for the night watchman to fall asleep. I can see him sitting in his brightly lit hut. He has been watching a historical movie for two hours on a portable television. Now his head begins to tilt to the side - and sinks all the way down to his shoulder - his breathing slows down - he's asleep. Rest gentle, hinderer of my desire. I crawl out of the bush and shake the insects from my ashen hair. This morning they buried my wife.

The priest has put on a solemn face. He waves his arms like a conductor as he speaks. The mourners play the orchestra. Rosaries rattle melodically to the beat. The priest thunders his heavenly wisdom with organ blasts up to the clouds. A wrinkled old man in the last row trumpets into his snot rag. All this disgusts me. It is false frosting that spoils the teeth. And although I know this, tears well up in my eyes. The cheap coffin sinks into the pit. We had never had much money. It does not matter. The priest wants to put a green plastic shovel in my hand. I'm supposed to shovel dirt on my dead wife. My heart is tearing apart. I push the priest aside and jump onto the coffin, screaming and crying. Kill me! I want to sleep in the earth with Bethsy. No! Let me go! - Hands grab me and pull me out of the hole. Thick lips whisper into my ears from all sides. The ambulance is called. I have to swallow some pills that calm me down. Then we all go and eat cake.

I'm writing a story about a school shooter, how can I make them relatable?

>>16877413
Congrats!!

>>16876464
>>16867036

The average debut novel is 90k-110k words, so don't stress about it being long yet!

>>16877735
Thanks!

Now I can continue with writing Blackula

>>16870232
thanks for the encouragement cutie. yes, the magazine had gotten bigger and i feel happy for them. i hope you'll get your acceptance.

>>16862962
Probably the best thing in this thread, goddamn, is this a pasta?

>have a great idea for your novel, want to write
>be at work, no time for a break until 9 pm
Please kill me I want to go home

>>16878099
TS Eliot wrote The Waste Land while working full time in a bank. You'll find the time. Why not use your lunch break and write something then?

>>16873999
>read author
>find myself unconsciously emulating said author
such is life

>>16874224
i'm a copywriter does that count

>>16878148
Freelance? How do you find it? I thought about looking for some gigs but when I worked in sales I felt soulless. Hate the idea of trying to persuade someone to spend money on a product.

>>16878213
nope, full time

>>16878213
anyway if you're looking for freelance shit there's always places like fiverr and whatnot (not only for writing)

>>16878222
I thought about putting myself on fiverr as a beta reader for short stories, many of them charge like $25 to read and comment on a short story with line edits here and there. But I don't want to get flooded with more than I have time for.

Hey boys I need a cool sounding Russian name for a big seemingly abandoned space ship.
Any suggestions?
Anything but ishimurski should do

>>16878602
Just pick the name of an appropriate city. What's the function of the ship?

>>16878602
Krestovaya

>>16878602
Cyka

>>16878687
Carrier

>>16878752
In that case any big city will do, had it been an industrial/mining vessel I would have suggested something like Norilsk.

>>16878752
Babushka, because it's funny to imagine a granny carrying her little ones in relation to a space ship.

>>16878602
>>16878687 has the right idea, just add "Novo-" in front of it, cus sci-fi.
I'm suggesting Novo-Omsk.

>>16873740
>>16870795
Define a successful book. If making money or having a following aren't what defines a successful book, you will never be successful. If you're an elitist who thinks you're above people who write certain genres, you won't make it. If you think you're writing serious literature, you won't make it.
Chances are, in general, you won't make it anyway because you're begging 4chan for confidence.

>>16879071
Not him but genre fiction can never be truly great IMO. I believe there are objective standards that can be applied to art, including literature. It's a combination of prose aesthetics and a beautiful story (I.e. Calling attention to a Truth in an original way). Characters, dialogue etc must also ring true. Lolita has one element-- the beautiful prose-- but the story itself isn't actually that good, and falls off a bit after she runs off with Quilty. Dostoevsky has the beautiful, meaningful stories, but his prose is lacking. Someone like Tolstoy or Shakespeare has both the prose and the beautiful story told in a meaningful way.

>>16879071
>>16879195
Also, genre fiction tends to have less longevity. Much of fantasy relies on existing tropes, and sci-fi inevitably becomes dated once actual technological advancements are made. People will be reading Shakespeare on Mars, they won't be reading Dune.

2,500 words if you want to waste some time. r8, h8, comment8
https://pastebin.com/DnrJqcr9

>>16879195
>>16879226
Then no, no one on /lit/ has ever written anything successful. No one in the past thirty years has written anything successful. And you especially never will because anyone who ever has was too preoccupied being sincere and dedicated to writing to doubt themselves and classify themselves as superior, separate and trying to last any period of time.

anyone else think german is a lot more poethic than english?
english seems to need to be far more archaic than german to rhyme well

>>16879893
Lol no. German's are too shouty and phlegmy.

>>16879795
Ah, we both agree on something. Although most major writers - Tolstoy, Proust, Flaubert, Joyce, just to name a few - are known to have obsessively compared their work to the greats who came before them, stressed considerably over whether they'd be good enough, and repeatedly destroyed their own work.

>>16879226
HG wells and asimov are as immortal as Shakespeare

>>16879960
You can't seriously believe this.

>>16880008
Maybe not their books per se but their concepts are as iconic as ever.
HG wells way more than Asimov, admittedly.
But your average normie isn't going to see Shakespearean plays, they're gonna watch a movie adaptations at best, so it's kind of the same thing.
They might not even know who "invented" alien invasions but every time an ayyy blows up the white house on film that's HG wells legacy.

>>16880008
kek nice argument there

I wonder if Romeo and Juliet has been more influential than we realize.
You're eight or six, you don't even realize girls are kissable yet, and your teacher (or parents) go
>hey little anons come I'll read you the kids version of Romeo and Juliet the most beautiful love story ever!
You then read the proper version again just before entering puberty because of school.
So you grow up thinking that's how love is and the teen love stories tend to resemble R&J until hormones get in the way.
Maybe Niggers beat their Nigresses (and vice versa) because nobody read them R&J.