/lit/ - Literature

EL GENIO ESTORBA, Y EL INGENIO IRRITA.

>>16797854
umm based?

(((((vidal)))))

Jealously intellectual types tend to be weak betas and Hemingway was a muscular gigachad who had tons of sex of course they hated him. It’s slave morality simply as is

>>16797817
He exposed their pretentious pseudery by writing good prose in simple language.

>>16798339
>why use big word when small word do trick?

>>16798368
He didn't say that but go off, queen

Jealously

>>16797817
Hemingway was writing in a simple manner, his books could have been written by a regular guy. This was at a time when other writers were trying to be more and more 'aesthetic', so his success made several people jealous.

>>16797817
The same reason why anybody with a philosophy/polsci degree hates ayn rand.

>>16799948
Hemingway at least had actual talent, and innovated the way stories were told with his whole "iceberg" schtick, Rand was just endlessly mad that the Bolsheviks empowered people she considered beneath her.

>>16800041
>empowered

>>16797817
Because he writes like a high-school student, for high-school students.
Reading Hemingway is like being in a car with someone that slams the breaks every 30 meters.
It was just annoying which was a shame because the story was good

He exposed them and their stuffy purple prose

>>16798330
hemingway was a C O P E from start to finish.
then, killed himself and proved that he was a loser all along.

>>16797817
I enjoy Hemingway unironically for his style and themes and also laugh at his funny writing habits. Why are "intellectuals" too retarded to enjoy both?

>>16800132
I enjoyed that one, it was centered around dialogue enough I could get through the bullshit you posted

>>16798368
>complexity solely for the sake of complexity
cringe and wankpilled

>>16797817
Jealousy. Not only did Hemingway have mass appeal and huge cultural importance but he lived a hell of a life and went out on his own terms. The people who critisize him sometimes have one of these features but never both. Case in point: Orson Welles didn't have a bad word to say about the guy.

>>16800163
All of art, philosophy, one could even argue the daily act of living itself, is a cope. The question is, which copes work better than others?

>>16800132
The car break analogy is supposed to be about his short and undeveloped sentences? That's what I got from reading the excerpt you posted. And while I can understand that, I don't think long and convoluted sentences that try to explain everything all together are much better.

>>16800132
I like it

>>16797817
Was Hemingway the Stephen King of his day? Simple and annoyingly popular?

>>16798339
>>16798368
He's not the only one to say this. I don't know why he had to say it like an edgy anime villain, though.

>>16800228
Hemingway actually wrote about interesting shit, so no. Stephen King is literally worthless, it’s just absorbing a plot for no reason.

>>16800213
You're thinking in extremes, both are bad and the middle is optimal but Hemingway was just frustrating for me to read although i only did read Fiesta and The old man and the sea.
Let me know if you think any of his other work are better from this point of view

>>16800347
Honestly Hemingway's stuff is more or less the same. Since you read Sun Also Rises and Old Man and the Sea, I would read For Whom the Bell tolls before giving up on him. It's the most dense thing of his I've read.

>>16798368
>t. reddit tier the office consoomer

>>16797817
I read an anecdote (probably hearsay) about Hemingway's years in Spain during the war, where he tried to play a joke on someone by painting the word "fascista" or "franquista" in the guy's apartment door, which got the poor beside himself because he could've been shot. Maybe other small things about his mean character were known in literary circles.

>>16800380
Thanks, i'll give it another try

>>16800441
Through reading his stuff there is no doubt in my mind that Hemingway as an asshole and hard to get along with.

>>16797817
In Our Time & especially Big Two-Hearted River is awesome.

I've noticed a snobbishness on /lit/ toward authors that find themselves in high school curricula. I really don't understand it.

>>16800243
Beggars can't be choosers when they receive a fifty-cent rather than a five-dollar ey?

>>16800477
Most of /lit/ isn't like that anon, don't listen to those snobs.

>>16797817
Jealous because he's better than them

>>16800489
I try not to, but in the last month I've been on the receiving end of many
>Steinbeck
's and it's dismaying.

>>16800499
I don't like Steinbeck much because he tries to shoehorn in morals or themes where they don't need to be. He's a very good writer, but if he had taken a more James Joyce approach to it, he would have been 10x better.

>>16800621
I can agree with that. But I do like him quite a bit.

>>16800449
“Asshole” aka a gigachad with a sense of humor.
>>16800443
Read his short stories/non fiction they blow his novels out of the water in terms of impact. All his short stories are great but the ones I most recommend are
>the short happy life of Francis Macomber
>(best one)snows of Kilimanjaro
>the killers(nabbies favorite)
>Indian camp
>capital of the world
>god rest ye merry gentlemen
>light of the world

Non fiction recommendations
>a moveable feast(Hemingway at his most comedic and funniest)
>death in the afternoon

Ignore me, I'm just trying to see >>16800000

>>16798339
He caused incalculable and almost irreparable damage to English literature. It still hasn't recovered.

>>16798339
Hemingway is a great writer, but he's no Faulkner.

>>16800690
snows of kilmanjaro fuckin sucked, rest are good

I liked Banal Story, clean well lit place, the one about the old man on the bridge running away from artillery. His style (and how everyone talks the same) got on my nerve in the novels but short stories are great

>>16800621
>he had taken a more James Joyce approach to it,
what do you mean? I haven't read James Joyce, do you mean more about ordinary life and less moral teaching stories?

>>16798368
Nice refutation, pseud.

For whom the bell tolls is like the opposite of the stranger. And you love a full meaningful life in a few days vs quantity of life is more important that anything else. In our time is good. Rivers in the streams is great because it's so bad. It's like a bad knock off version of hem but it's written by him and edited by his wife after he died. I liked it because it makes you think, "well fuck I can be that bad."

>>16797817
Who gives a fuck what this queer had to say about anything?

>>16800621
I agree, Cathy is the true protagonist of East of Eden. Steinbeck's sentimentalism is sickening.

>>16801880
>>16800621

That goes with the overall tone and context of the novel, doesn't it? His sentiment and biblical prose is what makes the novel so legendary; it is exactly like reading a myth, just like his other novels, only it is longer and more detailed. The introduction is fantastic because of the marvelous stage it sets for the characters. Putting a more realistic spin would ruin the narrative.

>>16797817
Because Hemingway was extremely successful but extremely overrated. It’s made worse because of how insufferably smug Hemingway was about being simplistic, despite the fact he never told a story that really compares in depth with the other American greats. His egotistical self-idolisation was clearly to mask insecurity as well, given how his life ended.
>muh big words are unnecessary
Actually more specific words can be used to convey complex ideas more clearly, taking all refuge in simple words (and a focus on emotionality) betrays Hemingway’s severe intellectual immaturity.

Hemingway was not a bad writer, but he wasn’t great either. What is the most profound statement that he made that wasn’t some trite reiteration of stoicism?

>>16802012
>despite the fact he never told a story that really compares in depth with the other American greats.

For Whom the Bell Tolls

>>16797817
>Why does Hemingway get so much hate from his fellow writers?

Because from a literary standpoint he mogged them pretty hard.

>>16800441
he also claimed to have murdered POWs in the war

>>16800132
the short and to-the-point sentences in his prose are what makes it so dynamic

>>16798339
They both admired each other. This meme needs to end

>>16797817
>>16798330
Pretty much that. Hemmingway is the perfect example of how you can be a Chad and an absolute genius who writes profound things at the same time. Everything else is just cope.

Hemmmingway wasn't trying to be super fancy and wrote in the most minimalistic way possible

>>16798339
>>16800243
I was surprised to learn writers were actually billed by the more fancy words they used. You actually had to pay $5 (Raised to $10 later) if you wanted to use more complicated language.

>>16798330
This.

>>16802239
THE CHAD RETURNS

>>16802239
physiognomy is only sort of real, consider this odd-looking manlet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audie_Murphy

Hemmingway would glue hair to his chest to make him seem more manly

>>16802281
Audie Murphy is a Chad and you seem to be coping with that

>>16802306
he was 5'5 and looks like a little boy

>>16801759
Island in the Stream is fine for parts 1 and 2. But it was clearly never meant to be published, or as a novel.

I'm visiting the Hemingway house in Key West later this month.

>>16802316
In your opinion. His features are boyish, but complement his aging rather than disguise it. Him being 5'5 compliments this, height is not the end-all be-all.

>>16802197
>god dumped by his first love and was a broken man from that point
>chad

>>16802236
Billed by who? What was the logic to do that?

>>16802344
Be sure to take a cat as a souvenir

>>16798339
I like Hemingway's stuff, especially his short stories, but Faulkner is way, way above him. The Sound and the Fury, Absalom, Absalom!, Light in August, As I Lay Dying, The Sanctuary... his opus can't be beat by many.

Hemingway was literally a crazy cat man and had like a hundred of the things. Men who prefer cats can never be called Chad, especially not a crazy old cat man.

>>16800243
>>16798339
People have been saying this shit for hundreds of years because the standard 'good writing' back then was not just bloated, it was awful prose.

>>16802375
>Faulkner is way, way above him. The Sound and the Fury,

Nah. Sound and the Fury barely qualifies as being written in English.

>>16802528
I'm sorry that you got filtered.

Reminder that this bloated toad of an insurance peddler (and god of modernist poetry) chaddishly punched out Hemingway.

>>16802531
And I'm sorry that you got scammed into loving low quality writing.

>>16802599
Spoken like a true pleb.

>>16802365
Anon, why do you think they're called "$10 words"? Use a little common sense man

>>16800193
Orson had a funny story about boxing Hemingway behind a film screening of Hemingway’s Spanish war film. Look it up

>>16802689
Whatever. I'm inured to your particular brand of artistic sophistry since it's old as God.

>Step 1: Lionize incomprehensible and poorly made garbage as authentic art.
Step 2: Insist that it's profound.
Step 3: Insult anyone who points out the mediocrity of the art in question and assert that only sophisticated people are capable of appreciating it.

Pretty trite and boring.

>>16802365
>Billed by who?

By whom.

>>16802788
>I'm inured to your particular brand of artistic sophistry since it's old as God.
I haven't read such an euphoric sentence on /lit/ in months.
Also, TSatF is entry-level as far as difficulty goes, there are way tougher works of literature. Hopefully one day you'll improve mentally and see how wrong you were now.

>>16798330
>slave morality
>MUH look guise I just read le epic Nechee wikipedia page xD

>>16802355
Lol no, he is just a hero, not a beauty

>>16802767
I saw that video, it was a dick cavett episode wasn't it?

>>16802239
I am not sure about this anon. Is this the example you want to use?

I am not a fan if sartre's work, but there is no denying sartre was much smarter and probably more of a chad than jung

>>16802060
What makes it profound?

>>16802197
>Hemingway
>wrote profound things

>>16804437
>there is no denying sartre was much smarter and probably more of a chad than jung
>Sartre chad
>who was a methhead
>who was daily cucked by Beauvoir
>who nibbled on her leftovers
>chad

>>16802528
Lol

>>16800228
No, that’s an insultingly stupid comparison. I think Hemingway is overrated but he wrote literature, his work is art and can be beautiful (though he was never as good as he claimed). King on the other hand is abject trash, he writes complete wank purely for entertainment. Idk who a modern Hemingway would be, a somewhat talented writer who is very popular but claims to possess genius he never fully demonstrated. DFW’s writing was worse but his ideas were more profound and true so that’s not a good comparison.

>>16800163
He had suicide in his genes. Many of his relatives killed themselves as well.

>>16800228
>zoomers and faggot comparisons again

>>16804511
He also had shallow literature in his genes lmao

>>16797854
holy fucking based

>>16797817
Gore "I'm not gay, I just suck dick" Vidal

>>16802552
During the time that both of them were on Key West, Frost lectured Stevens about having a couple too many during a gathering the night before, an image that tickles me in view of how much shorter, and more glum his mood was without the lashings of bitter weather and circumstances to get his adrenal glands going, Frost was. Can't imagine Stevens punching out Hemingway even in that state, though I can imagine all too well the visceral loathing he felt toward him as a person, whatever Hemingway's merits as an artist happen to be.

>>16802796

>>16802365
They’re messing with you man

>>16802528
One lick less.

>>16800193
Did he live a tough life?

Nabokov was right, he was a writer for boys. But old man and the sea, that was written form a different place. honest, emotionally profound. I carry that one with me

>>16800690
>drinking their whiskey

>>16798330
This is true. Hemingway was truly gigachad.

>>16800132
My imagination doesn't need literary handhold, copelord

>>16800041
>empowered
People like you just provide grist for the Randians' mills by trying to downplay what tge Bolsheviks did.

>>16800041
it's spelled "executed", anon

>>16800041
>Rand was just endlessly mad that the Bolsheviks empowered people she considered beneath her.

Given she was a refugee from their empowerment and broke down in tears upon seeing the Statue of Liberty, I can't exactly blame her.

>>16798368
Pencil neck detected. Back to r/feminism
Faggot.
>>16800132
>le analogy
Weve all had the analogy phase.. time to grow out of it or gb2 you know where homo.

>>16800243

>can say say something like an edgy anime villain
>or can say something not like an edgy anime villain
>why would you choose the first one?

Why would you not say something like an edgy anime villain, anon?

>>16797817
I'm going to sound like a simp but they envied him and his literary fame. Hemingway is known by all meanwhile Vidal is known by faggots.

Hemingway is numale's idea of a literary chad.

>>16800041
>>16805489
>>16805647
>NOOOOO HOW DARE YOU USE THAT WORD

>>16800172
It's autism mixed with feelings of inferiority

>>16797817
Because he's an overrated hack.
>I don't care about your ennui you pussy, tell me about the fucking monkeys!

>>16802552
>>16804649

Supposedly Wallace Stevens got a bit drunk and annoyed with Hemingway (which wouldn't be hard) and took a swing at him but didn't do much, and Hemingway decked him. Hemingway tells the story like this, anyway, to make himself appear awesome but I'm not convinced. WS was 20 years older than H and not in great condition and most likely EH was being a jerk.

>>16805948
forgot about this based chad

>>16797817
>>16798330
>>16798339
>>16799948
>>16800163
>>16800193
>>16800493
>>16800690
>>16802069
>>16802197
>>16802239
>>16802298
>>16805928
>>16805948
Hemingway is loved by boys who wish they were men.

The only truly great things about Hemingway are his politics and his love for cats

>>16805647
Bitch only got to attend school and learn to write her shitty books because the Bolsheviks stupidly gave women rights. Then again who expects a Jew to be grateful?

>>16806543
Deep inside we're all boys wishing to be men

>>16806626
Some of us are men who wish we were deep inside boys
jk

>>16800621
>A James Joyce approach
You mean stream of consciousness?

>>16797817
Strong words from the man who wrote The Smithsonian Institution, which is a dumpster fire of a novel.

>>16800041
Anybody even remotely hard working is disgusted by what the bolsheviks did to the kulaks

>>16804509
>he wrote literature
kek
>his work is art
So is King. Stop using art as an evaluative term you fucking class A pseud.

>>16806983
Only Pseuds

>>16798330
I agree. Even Faulkner, whom most would consider a superior author, had a bit of an incel complex when it came to Hemingway. Artists in general are jealous, petty creatures, and fickle salon culture only makes it worse.

>>16797817
>artsy pinko fag has a glib critique to share
Lmao! Turn that snark-o-meter up to eleven, my man!