/lit/ - Literature

I normally never read outside le classics and modern "literary fiction" but I tried to read some scifi. I went with the Minority Report. Goddamn had to stop 3/4 on the way in because I found it so terrible. Now I'm begging for your expertise lads. I'm looking for some fun scifi or fantasy that is standalone and interesting. Prose if a huge deal for me. I'm so sorry for being needy but I gather you're the experts on this matter. Thanks in advance :)

>>16745010
Try Dune. A perfectly standalone book with great prose.

>>16744981
LOOK AT ME EVERYONE
I'M WOOOOOOOOOOOOORLDBUILDINGGGG

Is Iain M Banks any Good?

>>16745010

unironically A Game of Thrones. Yes, the books are better than the shit show.

The scifi end of things tends to involve more personal taste. Neuromancer hits with most people.

>>16745756
yeah but Consider is a bit of a weak intro novel to his universe

>>16745756

sometimes. the culture novels are a bit hit & miss. The Algebraist is his best work under that pen name by a wide margin.

Has anyone else read Chateau Cascade?

Tried coiling dragon, think it's the first xianxia I've tried that I'd call outright bad

>>16745761
>prose is a huge deal for me
>try the ASOIAF books
Why are you doing this to him?

>>16745810

talk shit post lit

>>16745010
What's good modern literary fiction? I only see people talk about old shit here.

>>16745010
Enders game unironically

> We have such sights to show you.........

>>16745828
I wish I could help him but I've never read a fantasy or sci-fi book where the prose was anything to write home about.
Didn't mean to be confrontational for the sake of it, I just thought GRRM is pretty sub-par in every aspect but plot building and delivery

>>16745786
Ok I’ll read your gay book if you can affirm that the kid on the bottom fucks the living shit out of the asian bitch on top. Other wise fuck off

I keep on trying to read scifi/fantasy "classics" to become more informed, but I can't help but feel like they're all massively overrated, and in large part, mythologized by the community to seem much better than they actually are.

>>16745848
How did kelmomas get into Golden room

Why don’t we more of that inrau magic ie super strength punching and other shit

What was meppa? Skin spy with soul? Or can cishurim also shape shift. I woulda been fine w him just being skin spy but he acts to weird and no one even mentions anything aside from esme just the once.

>>16745876
Why are you reading something you don't like?

>>16745895
because everyone not only here, but in other book communities, have been telling me how good and "foundational" these books are, and it feels wrong for me to think they're borderline poorly written

Does anyone like enjoy horror elements in his sci-fi?
This is more of the former than the latter but I quite liked it.
Also Michelle Paver's 'Dark Matter' was great

>>16745010
read some Asimov short stories

>>16745860
>never read a fantasy or sci-fi book where the prose was anything to write home about.

fair enough. why do you suppose that is?

>>16745010
Best prose I've seen in fantasy is Gormenghast.
It's not really your typical fantasy, but you should check it out anyway.

>>16745844
Saunders but he's basically just spec fic that's too well received to be treated as spec fic

>>16745906
>Also Michelle Paver's 'Dark Matter' was great
i liked her caveman books as a kid

>>16745906

I don't find horror compelling in fiction in any medium. The real world is so much more horrific than anything people make up. Like if you want to lose some sleep try Mievilles, "Sacken"

>>16745923
George Saunders? Gonna put Lincoln in the Bardo on my list, any other recs?

>>16745935
horror video games are pretty spoopy

>>16745950

if you actually react to jumpscares I guess we have no basis for communication.

>>16745959
guess I can cancel your invite to my birthday party!

>>16745935
yeah just read some true crime if you want to get creeped out lol

Has anyone read "The Atlantis Gene" trilogy? Is it bad or good? I've read some mixed reviews, but at the same time, it has a shit ton of readers & reviews.

>>16745963

so you see what I mean about real horror :(

>>16745051
>Dune
>great prose.
Kek

Is this series good?

Fuck Bayaz btw

>>16745986
heh

>>16745010
I second Neuromancer for prose SF. Most of the better prose goes to fantasy but Gibson was good with style for awhile at least.

*farts*

>>16745876
Groundbreaking doesn't mean something's aged well. As imitators follow, the breakthroughs become cliche. Which ones have you read?

>>16746017
Stop reading YA shit nerd

>>16745971
I sample it and it's like action packed Dan Brown

>>16745848
>Hellraiser Quote
I actually can't tell whether or not that's based. On the one hand, its a great fucking movie. On the other hand, it's not as good as the rest of Barker's work, yet still overshadows everything else he's done, leading to great books like Imajica or Weaveworld being forgotten. It also indirectly led to the Scarlet Gospels, the worst book Barker's written and the worst book I've ever fucking read.

In any case, have your (You)

>>16746017
slow af

BRANDOOM SANDERSTORM

>>16746017
>Fuck Bayaz btw

What if Gandalf Bad?

*buggers you*

BERPDURB GUMGERGORK

reading latro
nobody told me it would have child rape

>>16745876
you need to learn to temper expectations and just take things as they are. how many people have watched the godfather and thought it was overrated? or taxi driver or the good the bad and the ugly? try to clear your mind and go in as a blank slate

>>16746017
I liked what I read but it's also glacially paced so I never went back after I stopped for no reason

>>16745906
>tfw read this but never seen the movie

read Outcasts of Heaven's Belt
>beltah lowdah set up beautiful brown spacer nation in a new star system
>have civil war that everyone loses
>most people just starve, only surviving polities are ancap nation and commie nation on the edge raiding each other
>nordic polycule shows up in a starship from a different colony to ask for a cup of milk and a bit of sugar
>get nuked
>survivors have the only functional fusion drive in the system and know the Kzinti Lesson
great stuff, wish there was more post-apoc space opera

>>16746099
Why'd he do it, bros?

>>16745881
>How did kelmomas get into Golden room
He hopped through the portal with kellhus.

> Why don’t we more of that inrau magic ie super strength punching and other shit
Because just casting destruction is better. (Also probably because Bakker probably had an easier time writing it that way)

> What was meppa?
Just a spooky chisharum or maybe moenghus’ disciple/son or something.

Alright Wolfians, what do we think of Short Sun?

>>16745010
Okay, I'm going to hit you with an unconventional take here, and it's got options so you can choose your own experience.

William Hope Hodgeson's The Night Land.
This motherfucker is seriously the best sci-fi story ever written. The guy wrote it in like 1910, and it is glorious. Even HP Lovecraft said it was great.

It's completely free (and its audiobook is completely free) because it was written in 1910. You can go read it right now. HOWEVER, it was written in a deliberately florid 18th century style, and that puts some people off. It's also crushingly long.

They remade it as The Night Land: A Story Retold, which is a bit different but still excellently done, I read it long after I read the original and it was heartwarmingly respectful to the original series.

John C. Wright also wrote a series of short stories set in the same universe, Awake in the Night Land, Call of the Night Hounds, and the single most based short story I've read besides A Taste of Starlight, The Last of All Suns.

Prepare to get your fucking ass kicked by this shit.

Hey, /sffg/.

I'm currently doing a research essay on Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon.

I got a few secondary sources ready but I could appreciate the extra help in finding the actual comic strips and opinions of the comics during their prime time in the 1930s.

Thanks for reading.

>>16746200
1: Break the guy who actually believes in you so that he becomes a monster.
2: Terrify Saubon with the idea that he might be next, so that he goes all-out to make sure he doesn't fall out of favor.
3: Make sure that both Kellhus and Proyas are damned (sodomy is sinful) so that Khellus can grab Proyas' soul in Hell and use it to somehow escape.

>>16746236
Great book, I don't known if it was the realization that the Solar Cycle was coming to an end, or Horn*'s demeanor and manner of speech after *, or the pretty comfy writing, but it was a very intimate experience. I also don't know if I caught half of what was happening with the inhumi or those not-eidolons or whatever the "ghosts" were called, but Horn* is a hell of an MC. The parts about the moon were physically uncomfortable to read. That and the return to... are the two things that stayed with me the most. In my head canon, I like to think the germ for the setting ("flooded" world, philosophizing messiah/dictator with a few flawed followers) was there since Wolfe wrote Urth of the New Sun and Apu Punchau.

>>16746273
That's a /co/ question

>>16746236
Nothing special, just a part of the strongest written work of all time
no, make that of any media/art form

>>16746294
Agreed on the Flooded World/Ushas connection. It feels the most like the book Wolfe was hinting towards with Urth and parts of New Sun. I still think I prefer New Sun, but Long and Short Sun together is one great journey. Love the bodies in the sewer section re-creating Severian's escape from Thrax

>>16746258
A book... remade? With a different author? How does that work?

>>16746273
the original flash gordon strips were reissued in some books but i haven't found any sources (tell me if you find any) so I'm saving up to buy them

>>16746277
>>16746099
Checked. Was anyone else confused as hell by the ending of the Unholy Consult? The way it's written from Malowebi's immobile perspective is quite clumsy imo.
At what point did Ajokli take over Kellhus' form? Why'd he do it bros?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/jqx39c/rfantasy_top_self_published_novels_2020_results/

>>16746024
>>16745761
>Neuromancer
>for prose
You gotta be joking. Aside from a few fun uses of imagery, like the opening line about the sky, there's really not much going on in terms of prose in Neuromancer.

>>16746327
Think of it like a translation from 17th century English to modern English, with some adjustment for the times. It's still really good, it doesn't lose anything, but depending on your personal temperament you may prefer one or the other. I liked both enough that I still read them each every once in a while. It's a surprisingly cozy story despite being straight horror.

Is Asimov's Foundation trilogy worth reading?

The sorrows of young werther by goethe

>>16746405
It's deliberate. You're not supposed to know whether Kellhus is bullshitting or not.

The "There is a head on a pole behind you" part is by FAR the scariest shit I've read in anything written in the last 30 years, though. That's Kellhus's POV chapter and it is some bone chilling shit.

how long do you give a book before you drop it

>>16746503
Anywhere from 5 to 100 pages

>>16746498

no

>>16746516
Why?

>>16746236
Probably the most powerful ending to a series I've ever read. I mean, not in context serving as another end to Severian's New Sun books, Urth did that plenty well.
But as in; Short Sun being a series, with a begging, middle and an [end] of it's own
It felt earned, and really moved me.

And as all(?) Wolfe's books, very, very clever. Horn's identity troubles. Multiple layers to the story.
I absolutely love stuff like Horn having the ruling family he visit tell him stories over dinner, intertwined with a weirdass -whodunit sub plot
Genuinely finding the good in space-leeches born of human vice, just lovely.

>>16746491
Understandable because it's pretty divisive, but looks like you were filtered.
Prose is not just lyrical writing, metaphors or similes.

>>16746462
Went through what I've read here and ended up with 7 series I liked and 6 I didn't but some of the ones I didn't like were real bad.

I'm going up to the cabin in a month, what are some essential sci fi readings? I've never really been into the genre until a couple of years ago.

>>16746621
you should get a collection or 2 of classic short stories, and decide from there which authors you want to read
I'd suggest dangerous visions, sci fi hall of fame, and short short sci fi stories

>>16746017
I liked his proto-litrpg but this one was just too slow.

>>16746638
Thanks anon

rec me sci fi or fantasy that is just a bunch of bros fucking around having fun
bonus if they're fucked up in some way like they rape or pillage

>>16746777
snakewood

>>16744981
Are these new illustrated editions of the Farseer Trilogy worth getting:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074CJ5JB8?binding=hardcover

I'd like to have at least the first two books in hardcover and the Folio Society ones are pricey and I thought the illustrations and covers look kinda meh:
https://www.foliosociety.com/usa/the-farseer-trilogy.html

>>16746327
>A book... remade? With a different author? How does that work?
It's because "the night land" sucks ass outside of the somewhat interesting world that was pretty incentive for it's time. The writing is atrocious though.

>>16745578

>>16746806
>I wonder if these books will be about an Assasin

Anyone else a fan of "low tech" Sci fi? It seems much more compelling than books that are basically just space magic.

>>16746498
yes. If you can accept that Asimov's prose is as simple as are his characters.
It's all about the ideas.

>>16746840
"Assassin of Assassins: An Assassin's Tale of Assassinations"

>>16746844
Do you mean hard sci-fi or just stuff that's barely outside of realism?

>>16746840
>An assassin that finds love, but first must face off against a dangerous victim that survived years ago
>an assassin that wants to be done with that life, but his old employers force him to do another job, one last time
>an assassin that was so good at his job he was feared by everyone, and now they want him dead. He is on the run with nothing more than his wits and weapon(s)
Yawn, assassin books get so old after the first two.

>>16746806
Ass to ass

>>16746850
Hard sci fi

>>16746840
The funniest thing about Hobb is how many people she misleads with her titles

>>16746844
It can have space magic as long as it says things like "delta-v" and "relative velocity" I will perform the nu-male grimace regardless

Why do fantasy novels take 15 years to get noticed by the public?

>>16746874
A lot of stuff is considered "hard scifi", there being very little magic in them, like Ian M. Banks, Alastair Reynolds and Neal Asher's books
still all those them are far from low tech, as tech can do almost anything, but there are internal rules and limits
so not exactly magic

Then you got stuff like Blindopraxia, where the author is very wary of getting too removed from current sciences, only ever so slightly dabbling in the speculative
it help that the setting is more near-future

>>16746862
>An assassin that finds love, but first must face off against a dangerous victim that survived years ago
>an assassin that wants to be done with that life, but his old employers force him to do another job, one last time
>an assassin that was so good at his job he was feared by everyone, and now they want him dead. He is on the run with nothing more than his wits and weapon(s)
I forgot this why I don't read books about assassins

What does "prose" even mean, why do so many people act like it's the only worthwhile part of a book, and what makes for "good prose"?

>>16746017
>Is this series good?
Yes I think they are, but listen to the audio books, they make the slower parts of the story much more pleasant.
https://www.audible.com/pd/The-Dragonbone-Chair-Audiobook/B01HIHI3MO

>>16747004
It's quite literally a buzzword on the level of dismissing a thing just by calling it "drivel" (70IQ people thinks this makes them sound sophisticated or something)
when your IQ is barely breaking three digits, you realize how transparent that is, and go with "the prose is bad", it's much more nebulous and harder to interact with
just go with: I didn't like it

when you don't give a reason for why the prose is bad, or how it's lacking , you really are not saying anything
doesn't mean that the prose necessarily ISN'T bad, just that you couldn't articulate why
by all means, SciFi/Fantasy is not know for it's wordsmiths, so you are most likely correct

>>16747040
>inspired me to write my own seven-book trilogy
>seven-book trilogy
>seven
>7

>>16747004
>why do so many people act like it's the only worthwhile part of a book
They probably just prioritize it more than you (or I) generally do when in comes to reading genre fiction.

>>16746865

>>16746228
Thanks dude. I musta missread the golden room part a little.

In my mind it’s: kellhus / aurang engage in crazy Ariel battle
Aurang gets BTFOd
they’re on some ledge now on the horn
Kellhus does some shit but its malowebi pov so we don’t know
He Enters.

I don’t remember a portal but I’ll reread thanks again bakker fagg

>>16747099
Memory, Sorrow, Thorn is a four book trilogy, that's the joke Martin is making

>>16747004
It's basically the voice of the writer, or the voice he devised for the narrator of the book. You can listen to the same story (not identical word by word, but with the same events, characters and places) told by two different people and the stories will probably be entirely different.
Some writers pull you in with their language even if the story is very simple, and others have excellent concepts and inventive premises but they write drily or boringly, or they're insane and they hardly make sense (they focus on silly things, break the pacing with ramblings, suck at describing an action sequence).
It's an abstract quality with a lot of different elements.

Have you never met anyone who could make any trivial thing into a funny or good story? His skill would be the "prose".

>>16741421
>>16741671
It's funny to me how perverted many authors are. Here is this book that people presented to me like an important must-read sci-fi novel. And then the author is writing about how boyish a 12 year old girl's butt is, as she swimming. Or how he's just generally amazed that black people exist. Like, this is supposed to be hardcore sci-fi, so you'd expect the author to have at least some progressive ideas. Because it takes a progressive mind to think of the advancement of civilization. But it still comes back to pedophilia and unconscious racism.

That doesn't amuse you?

>>16742442
Because that's where the fun is. No one wants to hear about how you love this, or love that. Blech. Entertainment is based around conflict.

>>16747161
THEN WHERE IS THE SEVENTH BOOK YOU FAT FUCKING JOKER!!?!

>>16746062
Where do I start with Clive?

>>16746500
that shit was crazy dude I just wish I knew what was going on but also not really but also I got it but idk

>>16747186

>>16746099
Why does he look so dyel here?
He’s litteraly a Thad to end all chads, not your geometry teacher

>>16745010

>>16745922
Seconded. One of my favorite series of all time. Read the first book and if you like it continue. If not, it stands well by itself.

>>16746258
This seems really interesting.

My recommendation would be The Slynx by Tatyana Tolstaya. It's in that elbow between literary fiction and sci-fi. It's very grounded while still having that strangeness that makes sci fi fun to reflect on. You will have to read it in translation, but Jamey Gambrell who did the NYRB edition is really good (RIP). Her take is kind of understated and wistful.

Also... Oryx and Crake is kind of a modern classic or whatever. Atwood is a good prose stylist. It's politically grounded in a compelling way as well.

If you like crazy ideas, I like Blindsight by Peter Watts and Vacuum Diagrams by Stephen Baxter. They are much 'harder' than the other stuff itt, and they are more focused on the concepts than the prose. I do think that their kind of writing is very important to the identity of sci fi and has some aspects you won't find in the more literary side of things. IMO these writers have a strong ability to look at humanity from the outside and deal with the scariness of cosmic time and space. Watts especially writes/imagines 'true' aliens. Watts was a biologist and Baxter a physicist. I am studying biology so I prefer Watts. Ha ha ha. Just kidding.

>>16746024
Neuromancer is great, but I doubt it will satisfy the connoisseurs among us. It's really fun to read tho, I reread every once in a while and I'm never disappointed.

>>16745935
Agree that the real world is far more horrific than a guy sitting at a desk coming up with ideas. Interesting that you recommend that mieville story because that's a great example of someone applying that real world horror that comes from life to their artistic craft and succeeding in channeling it. I guess the distinction is that some horror is that guy at the desk thinking of something and being like 'this is scary' rather than experiencing something scary and being possessed by that fear while writing? idk. That collection three moments of an explosion is so fucking good tho. Its been a few years since I read it but the story about the man feeling the things moving/calling out from underground (im so hazy on it) was likewise really scary. Idk why people hate on Mieville. Maybe there is a certain silliness or self-seriousness about what he does, but he does it WELL.

>>16747225
I'm still not sure if this was filmed as a joke, or genuinely how he spend his time

For some retarded reason I keep getting The Prince of Nothing and The Book of the New Sun mixed up.
Which of these is the good one?

Should switch them around as a joke, tee-hee?

>>16747252
Lol idk which one is the good one but people talk a bout the book of the new sun a lot and it's the one I've read. I liked it a lot

>>16747252
Both, you baiting retard.

>>16747252
This is the good one

>>16747181
>Like, this is supposed to be hardcore sci-fi, so you'd expect the author to have at least some progressive ideas. Because it takes a progressive mind to think of the advancement of civilization.
He has plenty of progressive ideas for certain values of "progress" which, you will find, is quite relative.

>>16747181
>pedophilia
>not progressive

>>16747297
Severian looks like thaaaat?

>>16747252
You’re retarded and technically bakker has the better story and theme but Wolfe is the over all better writer on account of not being a brain dead gen xer

>>16747350
>technically bakker has the better story and theme
imagine saying this with a straight face
I can't

>>16745935
>that bit in Cold Allies where the guy's watching soldiers getting nerve-gassed through his drone camera

>>16747246
I'd say it's both.

>>16746806
>https://www.foliosociety.com/usa/the-farseer-trilogy.html
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_IVXuXZX6M
>$250.00
Would've expected a little more bang for your buck coming from Folio, everything about it looks so plain and basic.

>>16744981
>What are you reading, punks?
children of the dune
I like how it has some more of the fantasy science and world building that was somehow in much shorter supply in the second book

>>16747246
>>16747501
the video was compiled from unsecured(lol) security cameras, he did not know he was being filmed

>>16747246
>>16747225
>actual unbridled autism

>>16747276
>>16747350
I know it sounds like retarded bait but I genuinely mix up both books when I read about them here

What are some fantasy tropes that immediately let you know that the author is an autist?

>>16747657
fetish insertion
spoiler: its all of them

>>16747181
the pedophilia part isn't strictly political. it's a mental disorder that you're either born with or develop at an early age, it's not an ideology. That said, liberals tend to approach it differently than conservatives and libertarians. liberals treat it as a choice and moral failing while conservatives just treat it like having an embarrassing search history. Neither of them have the right approach to it, but the situation's so kneejerk it's impossible to have a rational conversation about the world's ongoing pedophilia crisis that actually has a chance of societal improvement.

Racism on the other hand is a different issue, and is a lot more common in scifi because scifi is as political as fiction gets

>>16747657
What would non-autist fantasy be like?

>>16747674
>conservatives just treat it like having an embarrassing search history.
Libertarians treat it like this but this is one of the last things conservatives still do vigilante killings over

>>16747684
This anon asking the real questions.

>>16747688
conservatives still do vigilante killings over black guys buying skittles. the fuck are you talking about

>>16747316
Uh huh... I don't really know what to think about that statement. But ok.

>>16747324
You joke, but a lot of people believe that's the case. So maybe the author really is thinking progressively relative to his values. Wait a minute! Is that what the other anon meant?

>>16747712
>conservatives
>doing anything
/lit/ niggas be wylin

>>16747712
>tfw it's been six years since zimm was let off on self-defense but the Cult of Saint Trayvon still going strong

>>16747688
anon, have you looked around lately? This website is about as far-right as you can get without be classiified as a hate group and it treats pedophilia exactly the same way

>>16747716
>I don't really know what to think about that statement.
Of course you don't, because you think SF is about confirming your priors instead of showing you minds that think as well as you, just different.

>>16747725
>conservative
>far-right
>muh 1d political compass

>>16747674
>>16747688
>>16747712
>>16747719
Guys, chill. I didn't even mean "progressive" in the strictly political sense. Not everything is about political parties. Damn.

>>16747735
OK why would racism be weird in the future? You'd think it would be more common with more races, especially in the post-apocalyptic world of Endymion.

>>16747741
It's not the characters that find black people interesting. It's the author that finds black people interesting. Go read my post from the previous thread. You can backlink that far, can't you? You're not some lazy mobilefag, are you?

Well I basically said that the author treats being black as a notable feature, unlike his other characters. No wait, actually he does it with asians too. He'll comment on someone looking asian, and that's all. Like, white people are the default in his mind, so when he describes white people, he has to think of something interesting about them. this one is tall, this one has fair skin, this one has dark hair, etc. But for blacks, it's just "she was a black woman". He would never write "she was a white woman".

Anyone can make this mistake despite their political leaning. But generally, a "progressively" minded person wouldn't find someone being black or asian particularly interesting when writing their story.

In fact, there's a character in the book who communes with various strange creatures. So there's this part in the book where the newbie is shocked at all the different kinds of people he's witnessing for the first time. But the "progressive" character is completely chill and neutral around the strange people. So the author is in fact aware of such a dynamic. But he still makes the unconscious mistake in his own writing.

>>16747792
>mistake
Anon, white people are the default.

>>16747796
It's always the anons who reply the most quickly who have the least thoughtful responses. I wonder why that is.

>>16747810
What was wrong with what he said? Culture and genetics traveled together for 99.99% of human history and in the last 10 years suddenly we're all above that and white English speakers aren't permitted to assume anything about themselves. It's an outrage, and why you will die in the gas chamber.

>>16746017
Shadowmarch is better. Tad Williams writes very slow, languid stories, but he's improved his pacing with every book he writes. Unfortunately MSaT is one of his early works so it can be excruciatingly slow. Shadowmarch is still very slow, but faster paced and I think has a much more interesting world and story. Memory Sorrow and Thorn is very old school hero's journey fantasy, which at this point means you're going to feel nostalgic reading it even if you've never picked it up before, because it has so many familiar tropes and cliches without an ounce of irony or subversion to any of them.

So yeah, I reiterate: read Shadowmarch.

>>16747465
I’ve never read SC :p

>>16747918
>the last 10 years
Son, how old are you? 16? Your perception is so truncated.

>white English speakers aren't permitted to assume anything about themselves
You wish to assume yourself as default? That's what you want?

Any good sources for free audiobooks?

>>16747971
>You wish to assume yourself as default? That's what you want?
Yes, that is completely natural, the function and essence of a shared culture.

>>16747650
>but I genuinely mix up both books when I read about them here
It's understandable since both have obnoxious fans.

>>16748006
After you read them you'll be able to tell them apart.

Books on elections being defrauded in order to oust a hitler reincarnation?

>>16748027
Harry Potter

>>16747971
>You wish to assume yourself as default?
Would you be offended if an African author wrote detailed descriptions of Africans but described white people just as "white?"

>>16747203
If you're looking to get into his horror stuff, then I recommend starting with his Books of Blood--they're his best pure horror, imo. If you want to get into his dark fantasy stuff, then I recommend starting with Cabal (horror/fantasy mix, and the American edition contains some of his short stories from the BoB) before moving on to Weaveworld--his best novel, and one of my favorite books of all time.

>>16747996
I kind of see what you mean. But here's the thing, when you are made aware of people other than your own kind, and you share a culture with them. Intermingle and integrate, then it becomes silly to think of yourself as the default. I mean, it's kind of like pandora's box. Once you are made aware of others, then you can't go back to your closed off existence.

The only way you can contrive yourself back into the default mindset, is to either A, refuse to recognize those whom you share a culture with. Or B, remain ignorant of those whom you share a culture with.

>>16748038
Offended? No. But I'd still question their supposed progressiveness, and suggest that perhaps they're unconsciously racist.
You're not going to find any double standards here, friendo.

>>16748027

ITT: good military science fiction literature ... Ill Start.

The Subterrene War Series by T.C. McCarthy

Way ahead his of his time. One may look at the evolution of drones in warfare from the battle of mosul, to the absolute butt reaming the boots on the ground in Armenia and Azerbaijan conflict right now to see where this is going. Fire up those Subterrene drilling machines and generically modified supersoldiers plz.

>>16748051
What supposed progressiveness? You're the only one supposing progressiveness. This is a guy who wrote about space templars and Romantic poets and framed a novel like the Canterbury Tales, why would you think "ah, this man cares about anti-racism?"

>>16745905
>because everyone not only here, but in other book communities, have been telling me how good and "foundational" these books are
Well consider this a lesson: don't pay attention to anybody claiming to be an authority on genre fiction telling you to read something because "it's important". The first and only rule for reading SFF is to only read what interests you. If anybody tells you to read a book and their reasons are mostly about how important or acclaimed the book is, you can ignore that person. They're either pretentious or severely misguided, either way not worth listening to. The only appeals that matter are appeals to your personal interests, because reading SFF is a hobby, not a career path. There's no prestige in it, no reason to listen to appeals to authority or popularity.

Of course if you're mainly reading just to be part of a "scene" then that's different, but if that's the case I don't really care, just read whatever and stop bitching on /sffg/.

>>16748045
So occupied India is "silly" for rejecting its imposed British character and seeking its true self in rebellion?

>>16745905
Oh, quit being gay. Outerlit can grade Beowulf on a curve and you can do the same for Asimov. Or not for both. Either way fuck off.

>>16748065
All of the churches are corrupt or misguided. His main priest character spoke heresy was excommunicated. His poets were hedonistic satyrs. His main political figure was a female leader, who he likened to Abraham Lincoln about a dozen times throughout the story. Her entire plot was freeing humanity like Lincoln freed the slaves. Come the fuck on.

I wouldn't say he's specifically "anti-racist". But he's not exactly pro racism either. Ultimately, the mixed communal society was right all along. And all their wrong doings were fabrications by the AIs. Who were basically artificial hitlers.

>>16748077
Uhm... what? Britain and India are nations, not races.

>>16748117
hopeless.

>>16745860
>muh prose needs every single page to be flowery bullshit that makes no sense

>>16748027

it has a happy ending I promise

>Novel set in a castle construction site
>Follow the blacksmith as he befriends the site's mason, carpenter, and architect
>Maybe some flirting with the nailmaker or spinster
>You hear of the wizards and dragons and shit happening on the background, people come back with steel shields bitten off, amazingly corroded armors and the odd "enchanted" trinket
>Nothing supernatural happens on-scene

Does it still count as fantasy? would you read it? have people done this? I assume they have, but I haven't seen it.

>>16748151
It could work as a low budget episodic video series.

Why is pindaros such a bro

>>16748058
>ITT: good military science fiction literature

What kind of scope and operational level appeals? Like how out of context are you willing to go? E.G. Vinge's, "Marooned In Realtime" takes a creative shot at what engagement-level warfare would look like with the defining technology being time-stasis bubbles.

Other examples I can think of explore the importance of augmented reality, infowar, near-future nanotech, etc. Other examples I can think of take a crack at war on the scale of the entire lightcone of the universe.

>>16748104
anon I'm having a hard time parsing your expectations. Dan Simmons is a boomer.
>Lincoln good
>Computer bad
>Other races exotic and interesting but not too distinguishable
there's not this single scale of "progressive" and "reactionary"

>>16746503
One page

>>16746503

I flip to a random page and read the first sentence of a random paragraph on that page. If it sucks I put it down and never look back. If it doesn't I repeat this process until I either have the book memorized or find out it sucks.

>>16748387
based prosechad

>>16748311
oh my god. Why are you oversimplifying like that? How can you honestly sit here and be like "What does the blatant Lincoln allegory have to do with race?!"

"Hey, guys, when the Jew gave his child to the cosmic nazis, that didn't mean anything."

"OK, so the AIs built concentration camps across various planets in order to enslave the minds of humanity, but that has nothing to do with anything."

"Humans being instructed to kill off all other competing intelligent life in order to sustain their way of life is meaningless"

"They fact that Web humans were stifled in growth, and the mixed cultures of the Ouster humans lead to both technological and cultural advancement is just a coincidence."

"The literal fucking glue of the universe being actual literal "love" and its controller being "empathy" is in no way indicative of anything"

>>16748426
>if the guy cared about race he would care about it like I care about it

>>16744981
I fucking hate the design of sci-fi tech:
> hurr durr lets just put a bunch of plates around some fabric, so futuristic!
> AI is metallic human, so relatable XD
> capitalism is the worst guise!
> hedonistic treadmill is unsustainable? What are you on about, take more soma anon!
> I'm a dude but I might be a robot ;_;
> roboshit is fucking magic guise, grey goo O:

Its like these retards got their conceptions of technology and science from popsci journal articles. I know its fiction but if you're gonna write about an orwellian nationstate that micromanages the lives of its citizens you could at least be less of a lazy fuck about it and write something compelling. Stop with the propoganda too, I know you're afraid of corporations and shit but its like you've never read a book on economics in your life, so many of these megacorps are legit retarded and hardly qualify as corporations at all.

t. frustrated biomechatronics engineer
/rant

>>16748430
Jesus christ man, did you even give a single fucking thought to anything I wrote? I mean, how the fuck do you read all that, type your reply, solve the captcha, and then post, all within 59 seconds?
There's no way you gave it any fucking thought. I'm not even going to address what you said in this post. Maybe I will in the next one, if you bother replying again. Maybe I won't. I don't know. But if you're not going to regard what I have to say, then I'm just going to waste your time.

>>16748451

ahem
whatever the FUCK you do, don't google rokolisk

How do I write a story based in a Skyrim-style setting that is NOT Skyrim?

Anyone got some unique suggestions I can steal?

>>16748461
Just did, don’t get it

>>16748493

Why bother? Trash sells. Look at Steven King.

>>16744981
I mean my real frustration is that the prediction are hardly realistic and just assume shit. Why are the plates formatted like they're muscles on the body? Why is the logo and number painted on the outside of this supposed armor? Why are there all these random lights on it? Why are the wires exposed? The design might look aestetically pleasing to basement dwellers but it makes me legitimately mad because there is no practicality or sense in design on it. Its made to look furusirtic first, not BE futuruistic first. Its a real blood boiler.

Its similar to how every cyberpunk setting is ALWAYS in nighttime, neon tubes are used everywhere despite serving no practical purpose and being a huge burden on the power supply, architecture is flamboyant rather than reserved. Its just a bunch of senseless light fixtures. Advertisements aren't targeted like they should be (you would think a surveillance state run by megacrops would be competent at that), etc.

The entire genre is a bloodboiler. Its all a bunch of nerd shit that looks cool to gaybois. Its like fantasy guns, a bunch of gay retarded shit that looks cool to someone who has no idea how anything works, to nerdnecks who don't think about it for more than ten seconds. Fuck this shit.

/rant probably done

>>16748498
It is immoral for me to simply make a carbon copy!

>>16748519

On what grounds?

>>16748521
Dignity and authenticity

is dark tower "I hate stephen king but this is good stephen king, i swear" true or a meme

>>16748553
>iterative process on skyrim
>dignity
>authenticity

>>16748566
I am an RPG fag that loves the setting

Doesn't change the fact I would like to put a different spin on it

>>16748560
only the first book
second is great for the first half and again towards the end but has some very irritating parts
third is irritating from the getgo
I'll let you guess what character I fucking hate

>>16748574

What does the way you feel have to do with anything? Facts are facts. You don't have dignity, authenticity is not among your aspirations, and skyrim was a creatively bankrupt setting to begin with. If you want to spin it, throw in more gender issues and make bank. Tada.

>>16747252
both

>>16748185
He's an absolute chad and you just know he was dumping loads into Io after Latro bailed.

>>16748681
Isn't Io like 6 or some shit

>>16748566
better than your commie cope fantasy (star trek)

>>16746920
which ones are you talking about

What do you guys think of world building software? Is it useful or does it reduce the craft to a formula

>>16748151
is there an actual plot with some kind of conflict?

>>16748493
it's called "being creative"

>>16748715

>>16748493
>based in a Skyrim-style setting
Please define

>>16748493
its pretty a pretty generic setting that happens often in fiction anon. Nordic lands being invaded by outsiders, gods feuding above that maybe some dragons or typical norse creatures like trolls, draugr or svartalvs. its not rocket science and its not special. you could literally write skyrims main plot as a story and it wouldnt be associated with skyrim unless you leave all the names as is.

>>16748875
what did he meand my this?

>>16748908
Name a good Fantasy novel that takes place in such a setting?

And I think the thing that makes it seem too similar to Skyrim is the fact that I am writing the empire Vs separatists civil war scenario.

>>16748866
Not the origin poster but maybe the blacksmith has debates with his apprentice regarding things related to the supernatural stuff.

>>16748058

>>16748866
>plotfags
Maybe sometimes he runs out of horseshoes and has to send the apprentice to get more but this is comfy

>>16748151
This is just slice of life

Are there any good fantasy books that have giants in them? Preferably as a main character or important role.

>>16749292
The Odyssey.

>>16745010
>no one had recommended Wolfe yet
W O L F E

Anyone read any K.J. Parker? I read the Engineer trilogy and thought it was very good

>>16749484
Read the first Engineer and half of Duelist, they're very well-written and the themes are impossible to stop thinking about but I just couldn't stomach them. Let alone man causes genocide of entire country as part of his master plan to genocide his own country to save his wife and daughter but she's already cucking him the part where guy risks his life and kills a lot of people to send money home to save the farm, finds out his brothers wasted it all on get-rich-quick schemes and lost the farm anyway was enough for me. I can take tragedy but those were a constant stream of good people being drawn and quartered by tiny flaws while evil people chuckled at their naivety.

I read Tom Holt (non-edgy pen name of same author) a long time ago and I recall him being charming though.

>>16749522
Yes the tragic nature of almost all the stories can be rough. I would recommend his new shorter form fiction, its more tongue in cheek and experimental with less focus on tragedy.

>>16744981
wheres the mega link with all the charts?

>>16745010
fucking book of the new sun

Is latro considered good wolfe prose? Seems kinda... Has it's high points but mostly average

How many books do you guys read at the same time

Do you guys actively picture characters and backgrounds when reading?
If an author describes a character to you, what do you do? Do you imagine the character at all times?

>>16749802
got two hands don't I

>>16748828
it's simply unnecessary.
just use a notebook or two.

>>16749802
one main, two side

Wow, reading books?!

What a bunch of NERDS, Well se you later loser gotta fuck N'Rolll, something youll never do!!

Any fantasy novels where the protagonist would likely think 5G towers cause coronavirus if they lived in this world?

>>16747246
It's not really him

>>16749484
I only read Sixteen Ways to Defend a Walled City and it was okay. Some people can stand that know-it-all but underdog thing, world's gone to shit, etc. but it quickly got on my nerves. I posted something more here >>>16705462
I imagine reading a full series by him would be the equivalent of marathoning all Guy Ritchie movies and all the imitators.

>>16749607
It broke

>>16749962

The Iron Dragon's Daughter

Currently reading Guns of the Dawn. After a nice first chapter (15 pages long) I found myself reading some predictable stuff out of any random Bronte sisters book. Aristocratic family in decadence, oh poor sisters enduring life as the men all go to war,
the widow, the shallow one, the old servant, the diligent but impulsive sister (the MC), etc., etc., which has been going on for 5 chapters now.
Fearing the worst I just had to skip ahead to check and it's a 185 page long flashback. This Tchaikovsky dude really has a penchant for extremely shitty pacing.

>>16750433
Dogs of War and maybe Spiderlight are the only Tchaikovsky books without massive pacing issues. The worst of them all is Childrne of Ruin, which is just all over the place.

>>16747225
now this is trolling

>>16747225
THE MORE SHE DRANK

>>16745010
Book of the New Sun is scifi with great prose. People here will try to trick you saying that it's only recommended as a meme, but it became a meme to recommend it because it's so good.

>>16749292
The Wizard Knight, they play major roles in the second half of the book.

>>16749292
Thomas Covenant has a giant sidekick.

>>16750425
5G towers probably would cause a plague in that setting

>>16749802
Up to like 3 before I just never go back to one of them.
My memory works by only really remembering books when I start reading them/their sequels so if it gets to that intermediate stage I'll forget the plot details of what I was reading.

https://www.amazon.com.au/gp/product/1909224812/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The Bequeathal: Godsent

anyone read this?

>>16745860
Read vance.

>>16746806
1st book 5/5
2nd book 4/5
3rd book 2/5

Any anons disagree?

>>16751141
First book was poop though?

>>16751141
I feel like this pattern could be applied to a lot of series.

>>16751141
>Any anons disagree?

1st book 2.5/5
2nd/3rd books 1/5

Some anon around here used to use the term "misery porn" to describe the Farseer Trilogy and it's quite fitting imo.

The books are depressing af, I have no idea why anyone would want to put themselves through them. And the payoff at the end is the MC literally being cucked by his adopted father who raised him

>>16751182
Not really. Book 2 is usually the worst in a lot of series. It's called the second book syndrome.

Get off to a promising start in book 1.
Try too hard in book 2, overthink the plot, go overboard and use it as a setup for book 3 and forget that book 2 needs to have a compact plot and be good in it's own right. End up with a mediocre finished product.
Book 3 might be good with a solid ending but it's moot now since most people dropped the series halfway through book 2.

>>16751172
I liked it

What did you think of the other two?

>>16751195
Overall yes, it's pretty much misery porn. I don't think it was overwhelming first two and they had enough good moments to make the misery porn quite enjoyable.

In the first book I really enjoyed the side characters, setting, climax and prose.

Nighteyes and residual memories of the first made the second a 4/5

3rd I completely agree. It was complete misery porn with a terrible ending. She went full retard

>>16750433
It's more like the first chapter is a preview of what's to come to add tension to the home life scenes. If you don't like Bronte books you should just drop it

Robert E. Howard and H.P. Lovecraft suck. I have no idea why I got their story collections by Gollancz.

>>16748697
Io legitimately raped latro

>>16751444
>falling for the conan meme

>>16745010
Anything by Dick probably

>>16749607
OP here. This is only my second time making a thread. And I don't normally pay attention to the stuff in OP. So I'm not 100% sure what you're talking about. I just copied the format of the previous thread.

>>16751586
Don't worry, you did a good job new slave, no beatings for you. The link he's talking about doesn't work anymore. Continue the good work.

>>16751618
Oh no, I'll let this thread die. Don't rely on me. I only made a new thread, because I had something to say, and there was no thread to say it in. But I have nothing to say now, so I don't really give a shit if the thread dies for a while.

how do I monetize my JoJo fanfics?

Anyone read Ewilan? Not sure if it's translated in english.

>>16751804
Send them to Araki

>>16751804
Donate them along with your body to scientists so they can study them and hopefully diagnose and create a cure for said degeneracy in future generations.

>>16744981
>What are you reading, punks?
Dune. It's the first long ass scifi/fantasy book I've read in a few years. Reminds me why I've stopped reading those books. It's good, but too long. Too much is spelled out and repeated. The genre needs editors badly.

>>16752210
>Too long
Holy shit lol it only has 190k words. Are you a high school dropout?

>>16748038
Oh no fucking boohoo i'd cry on the spot if he did that

>>16748426
Cry

>North is the sea, which I have not mentioned before, and will not again. Expeditions cross into the desert, and the jungles house the Island and its inmates, but the sea is no place for human life, even for a moment. North from Shadrapar lies a barren, rock-strewn beach leading jaggedly down to the poisoned shore. It is not water, as we understand it, that makes up that sea. It is some chemical-laced potion fatal to life, and yet inimitable to death as well. The tiny micro-animals that are responsible for decay and renewal are as averse to the sea as we are. If you ventured down to the tide’s edge you would see a rolling expanse of black fluid out as far as the eye could see, and everywhere across it you would see the bodies: of fish and marine creatures, and the occasional luckless human being. The species of animal to be found floating on the tide are all extinct, and have been for millennia. There are bizarre and astonishing prodigies there that have no equal anywhere on Earth. Everything is preserved in its final attitude of twisted, envenomed death, and will no doubt still be there when the sun consumes the Earth and brings the whole sad show to an end. I looked upon the sea just once in my life, and that through a telescope, and never wished to do so again. Some who make the sea their study claim that there are things that make the waters move, and feed on those unnaturally maintained corpses. I believe none of it. The sea is death’s unchanging kingdom on Earth, and it has no part in this story. My story is, despite all that has happened, one of hope, and there is no hope for the oceans.

>make interesting world
>only explore some of it

>>16752210
Shit has only gotten worse. Dune's length and unnecessary bits pale in comparison to trash like Stormlight that sells well at the moment. It really does make you wonder why the editors in these genres tend to be so shit.

>>16752227
at that length there should be twice as much content.
Frank Herbert
>elfin face
>whole chapters explaining things already explained
>thought bubbles like a comic book, so we know every characters motives at every time
GRRM
>describes every single piece of food that might be in the kingdom
Robert Jordan
>Tugs braid

>>16752318
>Robert Jordan
>>Tugs braid
He had about two dozen other cliches. They're escaping me at the moment. But yeah, if he cut out all the repeat phrases, the text would be at least 10% lighter.

>>16751444
you got filtered

Shit I missed two threads.

E William Brown not fuck for November.

>>16747002
Those are basically westerners plots.

>>16746491
Neuromancer for cute similes using highly technical language.

>>16751618
That's why you use the new link that was posted.

The Calculating Stars is the best science fiction I've read in decades.

>>16752778
>Mary Robinette Kowal is an American author and puppeteer.

>>16752787
she also does a podcast with Brian Sanderson

>>16752810
shit, Brandon.

>>16752787
But is she a Pierson's Puppeteer or a Puppet Masters puppeteer, this makes a huge difference

>>16752810
She was a late add and ruined the podcast.

>>16752860
If it's Brandon Sanderson's podcast, it's likely shit to begin with anon.

>>16752860
Yeah it was more fun when it was just boys chat, their lack of experience was made up for by the fun they had, when she came on it was all downhill till the "we have some magic brown people we're going to reverently listen to" episodes

>>16752362
Blood and ashes!

>>16752895
language, Uno

>>16752659
>mentions "new" link but doesn't post it

>>16752923
It was posted in a previous thread.

Will we get a fantasy series to rival asoiaf in our lifetimes?

>>16753092
Several.

ONE WEEK

>>16752210
Well maybe you'll like my 40,000 word novella

>>16753256
How tall is Brando?

>>16753309
Only 1.75 m tall, so that chick is just short

>>16752318
filtered

>>16752778
>>16752787
Let me guess. One of the characters, at one point or another in their lives, was fascinated by/played with/made a living with puppets or similar dolls and it remained a big interest for them.

>>16753331
>>16753309
He grows a centimeter taller with every book he publishes

>>16753377
>1.35m gremlin working the night desk at a hotel
>desperately writing to get published to escape manlet hell

>>16744981
ok

>>16748460
Stop being overly emotional. You're acting like a woman.

>>16753389
Isaac Asimov was 9 feet tall when he died.

>>16753422

>>16753331
Short chicks make my pee-pee feel funny and harden

>>16753580
Ruh-roh, better get the chastity belt on you

Hello anons, I've been lurking in this general for a couple of week but I haven't seen anyone mention pic related. I was about to order it but thought maybe I'd ask here first if it's any good

>>16753650
Listen to the audiobook on youtube. I didn't like the orgy shit.

>>16753650
what do you like

>>16753650
It's been mentioned at least 6 times this month.

>>16753714
>Men going through hardships
>Violence, preferably with purpose, e.g to advance the plot or present an ethical/moral problem
>politics delivered through interesting dialogue
>atmospheric or mysterious
>underlying philosophical themes
Any of those is good enough for me desu

>>16753785
Moby Dick

>>16745010
Try China Mieville or Stanislaw Lem

>>16746498
Yes but personally I have always enjoyed his prequels/sequels written in the 1980s more

>>16746017
I liked it. Can't get myself through Empire of Grass though.

>>16753873
FUCK ROBOTS

someone on /tv/ mentioned that the setting of DUNE is such that there are no computers because of a "machine war" in the past...
Does that come up in the first book at all? I'm over halfway through but haven't seen anything that would give me that implication

>>16754475
Butlerian Jihad was the human uprising against machine rule and was probably mentioned in passing someplace, but it's ancient history by the time Dune happens. It's why they use mentats rather than computers. I think they go into it in a follow-on book, but I didn't read those.

>>16754475
The Butlerian Jihad is mentioned a few times early on, and the explanation for mentats also goes into it a bit.