/lit/ - Literature

Ivan=the intellect
Dmitri=the body and its passions
Alyosha=the soul and its magnanimity

The characters all demonstrate a convincing consciousness, none are simple, each occasionally behaves in a way that contradicts their general framework, and the contradictions give insight into who the character actually is.

For example, Gruschenka is painted as a kind of femme fatale willing to use her attractiveness to control and exploit men, often merely for amusement. Yet we learn of her previous engagement and discover she is actually a sobbing young girl deeply afraid of being hurt, who recently plumped out with a nice booty and nice boobs and is now using these assets to exact a kind of generalized revenge against men. When she sees that Dmitri sees this upon meeting the Pollak who left her, she at last gives up the act of torturing him and lets him love her, and indeed desires to be loved by him. That's not a stockpile character-- its a character who changes because she sees how the way others see her changes. She is practically conscious.

>>16674337
It's widely known that Dosto is basically Russian pulp fiction. All his characters are over dramatic and, as you say, caricatures. The fact that this board lavishes him with so much praise goes to show just how infested with pseuds /lit/ is

>>16674645
What’s wrong with pulp?
It’s better than ‘literary’ fiction today.

I got 40 pages into this book and was so depressed I wanted to kill myself. Then I got chickflia and read the latest Thrawn book and felt better. Based Zahn and Christianity saving me from eternal damnation.

>>16674645
you faggots are so wrong about this and you just keep saying it

>>16674401
sure but what is Smerdyakov and where does Katerina fit into all this?

Also because the father of the Karamazov's shares Dostoevsky's name, are his sons meant to be the different parts of his being/soul?

>>16674748
Smerdyakov is a byproduct of people like Ivan, a fucked up, disturbed individual who is driven to even more extreme antisocial behavior by nihilistic philosophy and a lack of any sort of solid moral foundation

ivan I sort of get, but if you resonate with muisov you are literally basedjack incarnate

>>16674748

Little known fact, the name was actually just a typo, but he got so paranoid someone would notice, he just stuck with it and rolled for 800 pages. The eraser hadn't been invented yet and throwing away paper was a capital defense.

>>16674881
is he part of Dostoevsky's being too? I would order it as Alyosha - Dmitri - Ivan and then Smerdyakov. I don't remember too well but I recall him talking about living in between heaven and hell but being able to see and experience both of them, and this is the sequence in which I've ordered the characters.

>>16674737
nah he's right

t. russian

I don't even remember Miusov

>>16674645
t. never read a Dosto novel and never lived in a russian/slavic country

>>16674748
Brothers K is not really all that allegorical. You can't condense it like that. It just captures so much of human life, its contradictions, how stupid it is sometimes, how petty and yet also how tragic and sublime.

Smerdyakov is smart. He only exists because Fydor decided to have sex with a mentally retarded homeless girl. He was raised by an idiotically loyal paperweight, in the backyard of the very man who conceived him, in the shadow of his legitimate sons. He knows all of this. So what does he do? He takes the one good thing going for him- being smart- and leverages it towards the complete ruin of Fyodor and his sons.

It's been a few years since I read this but I seem to remember Katerina as a classic Dostoevskian character-- her opinion of herself is constantly changing. She thinks she is a saint and then she thinks she is an unworthy fool. Her actions reflect that unceasing dynamism. She actually reminds me of the Underground Man a lot, she is practically the female version.

>>16674337
>>16674645
You missed the point. The exaggerated psychological components of dostoyevsky's characters is to illustrate. Take a magnifying glass to a human face and it becomes a caricature same applies to a human psyche.

>>16674917
if we are arguing that he represents a part of a person, I guess id speculate given his character and the uncertain nature of his possible status as fyodor's bastard child, perhaps he's meant to be the worst of us that many people do not want to acknowledge exists and makes us uncomfortable to think about, but is there none the less and can be brought to the surface under certain conditions to unfortunate consequences

>>16674925
Your own universities make you study Dostoevsky in literature programs, he is not pulp fiction

>>16674954
an ultimate nihilist who even follows the philosophy to it's logical end, to destroy others then yourself

>>16674940
I've read 2 of Dostos novels and they were both exactly as OP and I have described them. The contrivance of the lawyer planting the money on the poor woman in C&P and the one brother in TBK keeping a pouch of money around his neck even though no one would believe him are completely ridiculous, to the degree of incredulity. His novels hinge to a large degree on these absurd artificial constructs whose sole purpose are to force some kind of theme or idea which the author could have gotten across in a much better or more interesting way. In this regard, Tolstoy is far superior

>>16674337
>>dostoevsky decides to make ivan and miusov into exaggerated caricatures who aren't even true to their principles
Why do pseuds like OP make dosto's characters out to be some kind of dichotomy or black and white? Did you even read the fucking book?

>>16674969
If you are pointing to modern universities to bolster your point, you've already lost the argument

>>16674337
Ivan is my boy
I want Alyosha as my bf
And I want to suck Dimitri's cock anonymously during a shameful drunken escapade
That is my most profound commentary on BK

>>16674954
I took it as each brother represented a different part of what makes up a person-body(Dimitri), soul or heart(Alyosha), and brain (Ivan).Smedy was a corruption of all of those

>>16674337
>haha le based nabokov dosto is only black and white and a pseud amirite lads???

>>16674991
You're legit the stupidest person awake on this board right now.

>>16675000
Was he ever not respected in Russia since his death apart from some Soviet butthurt?

>>16674954
I would say Smerdyakov "represents" the interruption of nature into the human domain. He exists because of sexual desire that could not be contained by ideals of any sort. His life's work is the demolition of life.

He could have been saved if Ivan took an interest in him and behaved towards him like a brother. In other words if Ivan was Alyosha too, which of course he couldn't be. Everything is locked up like a stalemate in a chess game. The move you want to make is blocked, precisely because you want to make it. Sound familiar? That's our world! Funny and sad all at once!

>>16675016
nabakov had the audacity to say that while the main thing hes known for is 100+ pages of insecurity and projection about wanting to fuck kids that people who post smug anime pictures put on their shelf for show and dont read

>>16674933
He’s the jealous filled pseud

>>16675022
Stunning contribution to the conversation. Well done champ.

What Dostoevsky should I read next? I liked this one a lot but I feel it was a bit long and I didn't fully understand it.

>>16674337
congratulations /lit/ youve done it im never coming back to this shithole section of this fucking website ever again
I got some good suggestions from you once but the only people left here now are literal droolers

I won't miss you

>>16676036
We definitely won't miss another Dosto sycophant

>>16674337
>the character i like turns out to be a hyocrite therefore the book is shit

filtered

>>16674337
>I like character X because he's just like me
>Author makes character X act like a retard because he is one
>Realise that makes me a retard
>"WOW GIYS DOSTO SUCKS WTF"

>>16675162
Notes from the underground is short and easy to understand

>>16674748
Smerdyakov is /lit/

>>16676254
pretty much "my diary desu" for the average /lit/ schizo poster. good though

>>16676265
>pretty much "my diary desu" for the average /lit/ schizo poster
Sure but contrary to other books of that kind (nausea, book of disquiet, no longer human, and so on) it actually portrays it as a negative thing and serves as a good cautionary tale that could be a wake up call for some /lit/ posters that are not yet too far gone
That's what I got out of it back in the days at least

>>16676273
>good cautionary tale
I agree anon. many books are "suffering is noble" but this seemed to me like a warning that that isn't inherently a good thing

>>16676281
The not so subtle difference between
>Wow! He's literally me!
And
>Fuck! He's literally me!

>>16676292
yeah, there's nothing worse than seeing yourself in a truly pitiful character

>>16676090
>projection
lmfao stupid nigger

>>16674911
Source?

>>16675015
The way I see it, the brothers represent the freudian trio. Dmitri is the id, Ivan is the ego, Alyosha the superego. Smerdyakov is the ubermensch and transcends freudian psychology.

Why is he so cute? I just want to make him my wife :3