/lit/ - Literature

>>16657614
>one of these is not like the others

>>16657614
>dead
>caught up in pc Islam issue
>caught up in Trump
>caught up in socialism in general

>>16657614
they transitioned

>>16657631
hot

>>16657631
Don't tell Butts but I'd cheat on her with this chick.

>>16657631
god I fucking wish that were me

>>16657631
Holy fuck those are nice thighs

>>16657614
They became either SJW anarchist/marxists or lolbertarians

>>16657631
would black

>>16657614
New Atheism was a political phenomenon that has to be understood as the liberal response to 9/11 and the Bush administration. It was popular because the preeminent political issues of the 2000s all fell within this frame: the war on terror, gay marriage rights, access to abortion, stem cell research, etc. Liberals domestic adversaries were evangelical Christians and foreign adversaries were Muslim regimes and organizations.

Once the mortgage crisis of 2008 radically shifted the dominant political conversation to economic policy and healthcare, Obama took the White house, and the Supreme Court made gay marriage de facto law, atheism vs religion was no longer useful as a political frame--atheists actually disagreed on economic policy quite a bit, and evangelicals had been much reduced in political influence (at least for the time being).

>>16657614
i remember when I used to love these guys, specifically Dawkins and the amazing Atheist. That was when I was 13, then I grew up. I wouldn't call myself religious, but I'm not some kind of militant atheist who wants to debunk the Bible every three seconds. Also, it certainly is a case for Christianity when one of the biggest single detectors on the internet is some fat man who pours boiling oil on his micropenis and shoves bananas up his ass.

>>16657716
>Also, it certainly is a case for Christianity when one of the biggest single detectors on the internet is some fat man who pours boiling oil on his micropenis and shoves bananas up his ass.
No more than its most powerful advocates being child molesters is a case against it

>>16657614
Top left: dead lol
Top right: based
Bottom left: degenerate faggot nobody with bananas up his ass
Bottom right: irrelevant show biz charlatan

>>16657614
Put simply, they won.

Look around. theism is nowhere to be seen in the credible academic world. Science has definitively proven the majority of the so-called nu-atheists' assumptions and has revealed a world that is wholly naturalistic and deterministic and which we are well on our way to solving thanks to advances in deep-learning AI and inovations in physics like Wolfram's theory of everything which explaims the appearance of complexity from simpler computational processes.

There doesn't need to be anyone out there in the public space arguing against "souls" or "angels" or "god" etc because such language is now patently ridiculous. So there is no need to go on refuting such trivial things. I actually don't think a single Zoomer would be able to even define "soul" (not that theists ever could anyways).

In the end, it was a victory so absolute thay there really wasnt any need to even declare it. theism has lost its place in culture, it has no cultural presence anymore except as a fringe and marginalized flourish of the more uneducated minds, and so naturally all engagement with it would evaporate.

>>16657705
this is such a brainlet take

>>16657727
>Science has definitively proven the majority of the so-called nu-atheists' assumptions and has revealed a world that is wholly naturalistic and deterministic
I guess quantum mechaniscs isnt science then?

>>16657727
>Look around. theism is nowhere to be seen in the credible academic world.
It kind it is mate
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r4sP1E1Jd_Y

>>16657729
On the contrary, it's so obvious it's banal. Hitchens, Dawk and Harris will explicitly reference evangelicals and 9/11 in virtually all of their pre-2010 discussions on these subjects.

>>16657744
Sorry I quoted the wrong post. The brainlet is the guy who discards atheism just because TJ Kirk is a fag.

They became SJW's and anti-SJW's.

>>16657614
They won, then everyone moved on.

>>16657780
>They became SJW's and anti-SJW's.

I often find myself wondering what Hitchens would be writing about now were he alive.

>>16657631
Okay now I need to cuddle and cultivate next to the fireplace with some /lit/ softie.

>>16657802
He'd probably do what Linus Torvalds did, reject it at first and give in a few years later.

>>16657727
>credible
>academic
>world
Ha!

>>16657727
>deep-learning AI
Artificial intelligence doesnt exist

>>16657614
They’re here, in the form of buttertranny

>>16657614
I think people realized that atheism is the same thing as religion... it didn’t help you

>>16657614
A significant number of them became trad cath larpers. Not that there aren’t genuine fundamentalist catholics here but I would wager that over a third were atheists and over half weren’t Christians of any denomination before the larping became a trend.
Other former atheist edgelords became larpagans and those faux-communists that populate Twitter that whinge about pronoun usage. Some probably became agnostics or more lax normie-Christians. Some are still around.
>>16657631
Decent quality twink desu

>>16657614
Wokeism won the war for the secularized state. They either retired or kept trying to keep the FACTS and LOGIC shtick going when the culture was no longer interested in either.

>>16657614
Progressivism became a new religion

>>16658015
>A significant number of them became trad cath larpers.

I don't think there's any real evidence of this. The edgy teenagers of 2007 are around 30 now. The trad caths are just the next iteration of edgy teenagers, but they're not the same people.

Atheism+ forced them to pick the "SJW" or the "anti-SJW" side. The "SJW" side won and took over the mainstream, then exiled the "anti-SJW" backers for being on the same team that resulted in Trump/Brexit/Boris. Those that picked the "SJW" side had to pledge support to supporting lived experiences as a method for determining the truth, which meant they had to abandon the aggressive "facts don't care about your feelings" tough love thing they had.

>>16657727
Not really. Their worldview as a whole lost. We don't live in an atheistic society where science and empiricism determine everything. A secularized version of the forces they hated took over; a cult of race and gender theorists who reject empiricism in favor of "lived experience."

Atheism is only edgy in the US. In Europe it seems like most people, except Muslims are atheists or agnostics.

>>16658141
Not him, but I know for a fact that they are. His analysis of what happened to THE Edgy-Atheists is spot on.

What's happening with Zoomers is the question. I'd say half of them are becoming edgy online Right Wingers, and the other half are becoming gigas()y commie DSA types because they accurately assess that that is where the power lies.

>>16658143
He's right that they killed their enemy, though. Their problem was in failing to realize that they were just a tool being used by the Upper Crust of Protestant society to shit on the Lower Crust of Protestant society. NuAtheism was always a mercenary effort, at its core.

>>16658173
>or agnostics.

Oof. This false mutual-exclusivity still persists.

>>16657614
Franky, a lot of their philosophy was bad. They introduced a lot to the Atheist movement but their arguments where terrible.

I laughed when I decided to see if amazing atheist was still around and he was getting like 30k views average.

>>16657614
It’s literally because /r/atheism got taken off the default sub list on reddit.
Even though Evangelical Atheism predates reddit that’s where it hit it’s peak cringe and it helped reddit draw in a lot of smartguy college aged incels. Then, for a while the most common reason to register on reddit was to unsub from /r/atheism.
They delisted it for being too embarrassing though and it’s influence really took a nosedive.

>>16657631
she's pretty hot ngl
definitely would

theoretical physics and simulation theory are just gnosticism for fedoras

>>16658296
>even le reddit was le cringing because of le cringe XD
No, the list of default subreddits is the 20 most popular subreddits. In 2015 reddit purged all dormant accounts, wiping out 10k of those subscribed to r/atheism. That dropped r/atheism to the 56th most popular subreddit from around the 10th a year prior. A bunch of other subreddits lost a LOT more people, however, some up to 500,000.

Someone's going to get upset that I burst this bubble and call me a redditor, but I actually just googled this (as you could have done).

>>16658338
>she
There’s a whole culture of self-delusion going

>>16658353
Nah, everyone knows the managed the default list, just like they put the one for women as a default because the site was such a sausagefest

>>16658338
That's just a mentally deranged due in women's clothes.

>>16657727
> and has revealed a world that is wholly naturalistic and deterministic and which we are well on our way to solving thanks to advances in deep-learning AI and inovations in physics like Wolfram's theory of everything which explaims the appearance of complexity from simpler computational processes.

lol

Since you can explain everything, how did the universe begin? I assume you believe in the Big Bang, so what triggered it?

>>16658459
Who caused God?

>>16658464
God is outside of time and space, a being of a fundamentally different nature.

>>16657727
>Science has definitively proven the majority of the so-called nu-atheists' assumptions and has revealed a world that is wholly naturalistic and deterministic and which we are well on our way to solving thanks to advances in deep-learning AI and inovations in physics like Wolfram's theory of everything which explaims the appearance of complexity from simpler computational processes.
But none of this is true

>>16657614
They were the excess waste of a particular generation. No one besides retards ever cared about them.

Atheists of the 19th and early 20th centuries remain correct, though; funny how theists never address THOSE arguments, and only those of hacks like Amazing Atheist.

>>16658471
>Everything has to have a cause
>Even God?
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T ASK WHAT CAUSED GOD THAT'S OFF LIMITS!
This is why no one takes WLC seriously.

>>16657631
*boioioioioioing*
WOoooOOOoooOOOAH MAMA

>>16658471
You're just adding an extra step to what can't be explained. What more strange, to think the universe came from nothing, or that an omnipotent God came from nothing and then created the universe? People are tired of having this discussion, which is why it's not longer as big of a part of our larger discourse.

>>16657705
Best take in this thread

>>16658593
It goes to show that deism is the rational position.

>>16657631
guy on left is like 5 degrees removed from highschool me

>>16657705
Pretty much this.

>>16658593
You're thinking too worldly, you think God came from nothing simply because our universe did so as well. He's outside of it and doesn't abide by its rules (his own rules) he always was and always will be. Matter was created out of nothing as were you.

>>16657614
richard dawkins is an expert in his field and nothing else, the rest are worthless irrelevant midwits.

>>16658568
>infinity has to have a start and end
Retard.

>>16657614
I'm still here. I'm slowly starting to understand why God is important. I wear a St. Vladimir pendant around my neck. Still defend Hitch's non-atheist writing, it's great.

>>16658783
St. Vladimir Putin?

>>16658593
This is an implicitly fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of God and infinity.
>>16658694
Deism isn't any more rational than typical theism, what are you on about? The idea that a God does in fact exist but has no input into his creation is simply mystical thinking. You have to understand that a belief in the supernatural also opens the floodgates to other supernatural thinking, such as the nature of souls. What is a Deist God's role if we are to assume souls exist at all? Are we to assume that the Deist God has no real stakes, or are we to assume there is a reason we DO have souls? Deism has a lot of gaps.

>>16658464
>atheists cant understand logical necessity and apoditic affirmations

>>16658593
>to what can't be explained
or maybe, its something you simply dont want to admit? it follows from basic logic that there must be a first "mover" that wasnt "moved"

>>16658750
It's not really about time and when we talking about what came "before" the universe, our language gets messy.
You are still adding an additiona, unnecessary, concept, it is absolutely possible that the universe came from nothing.

It is also possible, that something "existed" "before" the universe but it was not matter, or anti-matter or anything that we know and it existed outside of what we call time in our universe, but that something was still absolutely natural.

>>16658593
>What more strange, to think the universe came from nothing
The universe being the set of all finite things that have a cause cannot be uncaused and timeless itself dumbass, thats basic basic logic

>or that an omnipotent God came from nothing
he didnt came from anything much like infinity doesnt have a beginning or an end

>>16658810
>Are we to assume that the Deist God has no real stakes, or are we to assume there is a reason we DO have souls? Deism has a lot of gaps.
What if a deist God simply wanted conscious beings to experience reality? What if everything really is God, and we are a way for the universe to experience itself? Those are real stakes and they still don't imply an immortal soul.

>>16658837
>it is absolutely possible that the universe came from nothing
its not moron

>>16658802
Not sure if Putin was named after the saint, or if they retroactively beatified Vladimir because he shared a name Putin.

>>16658843
>Something can't come from nothing.
>God came from nothing lol

This is why no one takes you guys seriously. If you just owned it and said "no one knows how God came from nothing" then we could at least begin to take you seriously.

>>16658849
>What if a deist God simply wanted conscious beings to experience reality?
>What if everything really is God, and we are a way for the universe to experience itself?
So it's just Gnosticism without any balls or grit. Thanks for sharing!

I feel like I'm back in 2009 4chan itt.

>>16658855
There is no knowing if our laws of nature or our logic apply to "before" the big bang.

>>16658862
Balls and grit neither make a thing true nor untrue. I am not a deist btw. I am an atheist.

>>16658464
>>16658568
If God exists outside our material universe, His existence doesn't need to conform to our understanding of causes. He could exist outside of or across all time without a need for a cause, or be self-caused.

Then again, human logic arose from the material universe, so maybe it's useless to use reason to try to understand a being that fundamentally exists outside of reason. What do I know?

>>16657727
>There doesn't need to be anyone out there in the public space arguing against "souls" or "angels" or "god" etc because such language is now patently ridiculous. So there is no need to go on refuting such trivial things. I actually don't think a single Zoomer would be able to even define "soul" (not that theists ever could anyways).

All of the atheist edgelords became libertarian edgelords, then traditionalist edgelords, then nazi edgelords. Cringelords gonna cringe I guess

>>16657614
They became alt-right

>>16658874
>Balls and grit neither make a thing true nor untrue.
I never said it did, I said your conception of Deism is just anti-Gnosticism that diverges all the way to the end towards extreme logical postivism.

>>16657631
my dick

>>16658875
>If God exists outside our material universe, His existence doesn't need to conform to our understanding of causes.

Perhaps the big bang emerged from outside our material universe and therefore doesn't need to conform to our understanding of causes.

>>16658921
Correct.

>>16658888
checked. May I ask what is the best kind of -lord to be?

>>16658965
Neoplatonistlords

>>16658965
A philosophical lord, who accepts that the problem isn’t with gods, but with people.

>>16657729
No, it’s literally why new atheism became popular. It jived with the trends at the time. It was anti-bush but also anti-osama bin laden and pissed off evangelicals and other war on terror enthusiasts by telling them “ur uh religion which means you and bush are the same as osama lol!”
After 2008 and the ensuing decade, new atheism became less prominent because other more dangerous problems and forces began to take center stage. New atheism was a fine political flourishing when society was basically stable and everyone was bored. Now we have much more apocalyptic concerns, what with resurgent authoritarianism, disintegrating liberalism, radical socialism, kleptocratic oligarchy, and newly assertive ultranationalism all exploding through the optimistic facade of an American led “End Of History” simultaneously. Creationism vs evolution is as irrelevant today as Guelphs vs ghibellines was by the 1800s, in that history had rendered it so off topic and pointless as to be completely irrelevant. Certainly the sort of inconsequential niche debate that could only take center stage when everything was basically stable. What the hell does new atheism have to say about China? Or rectifying the dysfunctions of American style capitalism? Or nationalism? Or what countries should ally with whom to outcompete who else? Nothing. Which is why these ugly turds are now completely irrelevant who occasionally make the news for barking incoherently at muslims and/or trump supporters.

>>16658979
philosophy is an intellectual hamster wheel of auto-fellatio

>>16658459
No one know what "triggered" the big bang, just plenty speculation so far.

>>16657631

God i'd tap that

>>16658861
>>16658568
This is sort of the problem with a particular strain of Low Church Protestantism in America using William Lane Craig and the Kalam Cosmological Argument as even if it's right, it doesn't actually help them at all. Thomism ends in "God's really mysterious, so just pray and be mystical, turn your brain off bro". The Kalam Cosmological Argument is an argument for the truth of Islam and the incoherence of Christianity. What American Protestantism wants is an excuse to ritually yell at strangers, and reason and philosophy and logic and theology don't provide that. Power does. The intellectual wing of Protestantism shifted to Social Justice, which is simply an improvement in every way. You want to know where the intellectuals of Protestantism are? They're in Harvard and Oxford creating elaborate hierarchies of privilege.

And then retards come along and don't realize that "if we evolved from monkeys, how come there are still monkeys?" isn't an argument, it's a cudgel.

>>16657915
Cope

>>16657614
You can only talk about how god doesn't exist for so long before it gets stale and boring.

>>16657727
>Look around. theism is nowhere to be seen in the credible academic world.

That's just false. The New Atheism movement induced by these popular atheists aren't even philosophers, and no one even takes them seriously outside their field. Especially Sam Harris, he has no field where he's academically credible in.

>>16659268
A lot of people turned on him when he had Charles Murray on his show too.

>>16657622
Hitchens because he died?
Banana man because he's blonde?
Maher because he has a mic?
Dawkins because he has a tie?

>>16659026
You are right, I wanted to quote a different post.

>>16659257
Wtf is this real? (formerly fake)

>>16657614
To hell. And we are living in it with them.

>>16657614

I think a lot of them realized they were causing more trouble for Christianity than they were for Islam, and so realized they were hurting their own way of life more than they were helping.

>>16657727
Based

>>16657614
They're constantly begging libs not to cancel them for holding Islam to the same standard they hold Christianity.

>>16657614

they've lost all the debates. fighting fundies is easy, fighting christians well versed in history and apologetics is not

>>16657705
Yeah that’s pretty good

>>16659509
>>16659548
THIS & THIS

My opinion is that their mission to destroy Christianity in the West was successful and completed. Christianity still exists in the West but it has spiritual been removed from the dominant culture and politics. I also think nobody really thinks this made the West any better.

>>16658015
I’m really not even sure the trad cath larpers I literally only hear about on /lit/ even exist. I definitely don’t see how they could simultaneously be zoomers trying to be edgy by rebelling against what is now mainstream thinking, and the atheists of 2011 who have got to be pushing thirty.

>>16659802
I do think that

>>16659069
Is that a bad thing?

>>16657622
Maher and Dawkins aren't any more academic than Banana dude but they have more influence.

>>16659560
>fighting christians well versed in history and apologetics is not
Examples of when this happened?

>>16657614
They are gone, not relevant anymore

This guy is trying to keep their legacy alive.

>>16658143
>then exiled the "anti-SJW" backers for being on the same team that resulted in Trump/Brexit/Boris
This is really massively overstating the influence of New Atheism and also of internet culture. The vast majority of Trump supporters are religious and a sizable chunk of those are evangelicals.

>>16657727
>put simply, they won

Imagine being this retarded.

>>16659891
The modern social media paradigm is pretty black and white. If you're not explicitly on the side of the good guys 100%, you are on the side of the bad guys 100%. Hence the edgy atheists were shunned as racist rightists by the mass media after Trump's election fried their brains, as they defended an enemy position (against wokeness).

>>16659548
There was this book called "The Syro-Aramaic Reading of the Koran: A Contribution to the Decoding of the Language of the Koran" that had to be published under a pseudonym because its author was afraid of getting a price on his head (like Rushdie did) for suggesting that the reason behind the Quran's language being so awkward and of poor literary quality is that it's a mish-mash of syriac-language sectarian christian works translated to arabic that later got redacted to the form we know it in today.

>>16657631
nice

>>16657780
I see this meme repeated every time this topic comes up but I don't really buy it completely. I think a part of the New Atheist crowd became SJWs sure, but not so nearly as much anti-SJW. Yes I'm aware some of the major New Atheist influencers became prominent anti-SJWs but from personal experience the followers of anti-SJWdom seem like an entirely different crowd. They are largely religious right wingers and love people like Peterson et el.

>>16659919
I guess what I meant to say was that you can publish books about Jesus ackshually being some libertine gnostic roman rapebaby without anybody batting an eye, but the moment scholars start to treat the quran with the same scrutiny in terms of textual criticism as they treated the OT and the NT for more than a century they literally have to start publishing under pseudonyms to avoid being beheaded by some random sandnigger in the middle of the night.

>>16659939
The only ones who became anti-SJWs were the ones who wanted to keep being contrarian to the mainstream discourse.

>>16657727
This is all true, and only throws into relief what absolute retards we have on this board who are trying to kindle religion's flame, all because they have been bullied in school and think this cheap submission to a belief system will fix all their problems.

>>16658464
based

>>16659956
*tips fedora*

>>16659976
See, it gets to you. You're eager to bite back because you're agitated. When someone mentions how religion has recently become an internet haven for beta slackers, they start to spaz out. Relax!

>>16659994
What the fuck sort of people are flooding this site nowadays?

It is more plausible that God exists than the universe popping into existence out of nothing

>>16660070
nah its actually not

>>16660073
Did your Priest-oh sorry, I meant Scientist- tell you that?

>>16660070
that mouth, bet he give sloppy rim jobs

>>16660080
no, common sense

>>16660070
Please elaborate?

>>16660089
And where do you suppose "common sense" originated from? Science?

>>16660096
no, a fully developed brain

>>16660099
Did your "common sense" tell you that?

They all either transitioned into the alt-right or transitioned into women

>>16659940
>that you can publish books about Jesus ackshually being some libertine gnostic roman rapebaby without anybody batting an eye,
Well put

>>16660070
how

>war on terror ends
>nu-atheism is no longer pushed

HMMMM

>>16659830
>I do think that
Marxist or Libertarian? Either way you're wrong.

>>16659816
>I’m really not even sure the trad cath larpers I literally only hear about on /lit/ even exist.
Because it's a false equivalency that all reactionaries are the "same" because of their rebellion, and not necessarily what they're rebelling against.

>>16658173
Yes most of Europe is spiritually dead, we know.

>>16657614
people realized that unchecked hedonism and consoomerism is bad for your soul

>>16657727
Truth
Only east is somewhat religious

>>16657614
Last time I heard about the Amazing Atheist he was shoving bananas up his ass and poruing coffee on his dick.
Truly, a modern Diogenes.

>>16657614
They became thiest conservative youtube skepticism groups
Such as : thunderf00t

Atheism ruined most of the European countries. Look at France in May 1968 and what happened. They were already on the path of degeneracy (destroying the paradigm of family, sexual freedom, orgies and swinging, paper magazine telling little girls it’s okay to have a many boyfriends before find mr right and then another paper magazine preaching conservative values so as to mindfuck them and so on...) without forgetting the American movies brainwashing their youth and telling them a false narrative which they mistook for reality. Many people don’t know what it means to be moderate nowadays.

>>16657614
Here, I found one
>>16657727

>>16657614
Image related is still going strong.

>>16657631
An improvement desu

>>16657722
>most powerful advocates
They aren't though

>>16661579
>protest against religion
>in a world free from religion

>>16658141
>The edgy teenagers of 2007 are around 30 now
Exactly, those teens are now failed adults whose lives are without meaning because they're social retards, so they turn tradcath

>>16657727
There is a vacuum left by religion after being BTFO'd which is now being filled with liberal egalitarianism. You can see the influence of Christianity in it as well. They have similar dogmatic beliefs, the same rituals, opposition to science that is heterodox and the constant redefinition, reinterpretation of words and concept.

>>16657727
>Put simply
Thanks for letting me know up front that your post is garbage.

>>16657727
Wow at long last, a true believer

>>16661837
He was more based than the rest of them; nearly everyone else got to serious and paid for it with their sanity.

>>16657614
Scepticism gave way to gamergate and the alt-right then died.

>>16661846
This is unironically occurring though. They think they're the resistance, but the establishment is wholly backing them.

The content curation algorithm and user response feeds are flooded by teenage girls and muslims