/lit/ - Literature

Marxism + Racism would be unstoppable.

Marxism is inherently internationalist. No individual or specific group, family, creed has an existential right towards the resources of the planet or any geographical region. Communism is only fully actualized when all nations are abolished and the planet which is the home of every person is freed from borders.

Internationalism is the most cringe and unrealistic part of marxism

race is the most cringe and unrealistic part about national socialism

>>16633812
This black chick in my marxist university group would love this. She’s always banging on about how whites and blacks are irreconcilably different.

Remember folks Internationalism implies the existence of Nations.

This post brought to you by Nazbol gang.

>>16633836
It's the logical conclusion. Nationalism is only an early stage of Marxism, but the implications are universal. Ethnic squabblry doesn't benefit real normal working people, who all over the world have the same needs.

>>16633843
the existence of nations implies their possibility for non-existence

>>16633842
Prove her wrong

>>16633843
It implies all nations in a symbiotic codendance with eachother as part of a connected and shared world, not nationalism.

>>16633849
That is a more general philosophical point, rather than a clarification of Marxism.

>>16633865
Which Globalism precludes.

>>16633861
I would, but she’d just ostracize me, all my good friends have long since stopped engaging with the group. I just want lower tuition and a place to complain about my landlord, but I have to passively deal with all her race realist shit

>>16633834
god damn, go and read marx you dumb nigger

>>16633869
Globalism is the conclusion to internationalism, and it's also a good thing

Can you elaborate on the book some more beyond shitposting OP?

>>16633873
She sounds based and would probably btfo you tbqh but hey whatever your excuse is. So take it yt

>>16633877
Incorrect, kill yourself globhomo.

>>16633929
"ur wrong"
Ok.

>>16633834
You do realize full communism, even if there was a revolution tomorrow, would not happen for centuries or even millennia.

>>16634006
why not

>>16633877
>>16633933
>the "marxist" pulls his mask back and reveals the ugly neolib inside

>>16633812
>ITT: leftists denying material reality in order to disagree with a book they haven't read

>>16634006
A lot can happen in a single lifetime

>>16634057
I'm going off Lenin's estimate. In the centuries/millennia to come, the nation-state is here to stay. Communists please no-one but neoliberals if they talk of open borders and abolition of nations, something we don't even see as possible for thousands of years anyway.

>>16634098
>the nation-state is here to stay
What the nation state entails however is changing and revolutionizing, this is also part of the transition from nationalism to internationalism which is inevitable.

>>16634114
>is inevitable
lmao

>>16634114
But you're comically overestimating the speed of the transition by even bothering to speaking of it. And none of it is inevitable either.

>>16634085
Only so much

>>16634133
>But you're comically overestimating the speed of the transition by even bothering to speaking of it
It's already happening without communism

>>16633842

She is correct.

>>16634143
>It's already happening
Yeah and the universe is 'already' ending.
Globalisation did not herald the disappearance of borders. Not to even speak of its breaking down

>>16633842
Whenever people make generalizations about "their" own race, they're always full of shit.

>>16634161
>Globalisation did not herald the disappearance of borders
We don't even have globalism yet, at best we have the early proto-stages of internationalism. Things are never going back to the way they once were.

>>16634114
>>16634143
See >>16633812

>>16634128
It is now quite plain to me — as the shape of his head and the way his hair grows also testify — that he is descended from the negroes who accompanied Moses’ flight from Egypt (unless his mother or paternal grandmother interbred with a nigger). Now, this blend of Jewishness and Germanness, on the one hand, and basic negroid stock, on the other, must inevitably give rise to a peculiar product. The fellow’s importunity is also nigger-like.

>>16634173
You're supposed to explain the points you've gotten out of this book, you're the one who read it.

>>16633847

Are you stupid? Talk to any Han Chinese these days and they fucking love the social credit system, the convenience of densely packed cities, and all the worlds animals to eat. They are at home living in conditions that would make whites skin crawl. Take Finns. They just can't wait to get the fuck away from each other any chance they get.

People all over the world have the same needs in a basic materialist sense, for sleep and caloric intake. But you're dumb if you think everyone is just a walking stomach.

>>16634172
I said globalisation, not globalism. Not like it matters much, but globalisation is 'becoming-globalism'. Not globalism-as-such.
>Things are never going back to the way they once were
Correct. Climate change, resource scarcity, trade wars, LTRPF, and strained inter-imperialist rivalries will not result in a return to pre-modernity. Nor will it represent a continuation of globlisation, but a sublation - a process of 're-regionalisation'.

>>16633840
>race is the most cringe and unrealistic part about national socialism
You would like the SSNP.

>>16634186
>Ethnic boundaries are not always sharply drawn, although they can be, especially if they correspond to phenotypical differences. Commonly, however, ethnicity is a matter of degree of re latedness. People typically form both alliances and cleavages, and grade the violence and destructiveness they inflict on each other on the basis of their real or perceived degree of relatedness. That is, both cooperation and conflict in human societies follow a calculus of inclusive fitness, which, in man, is often at least partly conscious, but which need not be conscious to be operative.
>Since relatedness is a matter of degree, it is frequently the case that different levels of ethnicity may be activated by conflicts, depending on the relatedness of the main parties to the conflict and on the groups of kinsmen which each side can muster. This phenomenon has been closely studied by Chagnon among the Yanomamti (Chagnon, 1977; Chagnon and Bugos, 1979) and has been noted in other societies as well. For example, this was clearly the case in the ethnic politics at the Nigerian university I studied (van den Berghe, 1973a). If the contenders to an academic post were, say, Ibo and Yoruba, then political alignments would tend to follow these large ethnic cleavages. If, however, the competitors were both Yoruba but from different regions, then major ethnic subdivisions of the Yoruba would align against each other-and so on down to the level of the local town and the lineage group and subgroups.
What constitutes a "nation" is relative. Globalism doesn't eliminate the need of nations, it is just broadening the cleavages. Post-nationalism could only ever exist in post-scarcity.

>>16634202
You're legitimately retarded if you think that whites have never lived in densely packed urban environments or that all Chinese live in cities. New York was built by European immigrants and it had all the filth that you would find in urban China, living conditions aren't biological.

>>16634243
>Post-nationalism could only ever exist in post-scarcity
We have enough resources, the problem is that they're distributed unequally to ridiculous degrees. There's no reason anyone should be a billionaire

>>16633834
Also no doors or walls for your "house"

>>16634254
China has billionaires, seems like they'll probably exist for a while

>>16634272
Nations are not houses, nor are they distinct people with personalities. What makes up a regional culture is the organic accumulation of many different people and events.

>>16634006
>bro just give us full power and trust us we swear in a few hundred years or so who knows maybe a few thousand? we'll have an anarchist paradise trust me dude :^)

>>16634277
Did I once mention that China is the ideal communist vision?

>>16634254
>There's no reason anyone should be a billionaire

There definitely is, considering they're billionaires for reasons. You'd be harder pressed to find some objective upper-limit number that you want to cut-off personal worth at. You want it at X, but why not X-1? X-2? Etc. etc.

Unless your lamentation is, "Someone shouldn't have more than I want them to have," then whatever.

>>16634288
>give
>us
Not how it works. Not how capitalism arose either. It'll happen over time, assuming it happens at all.

>>16634299
>Did I once mention that China is the ideal communist vision?
No, because it isn't. But they're the most developed existing socialist country, so it's pertinent to see what's happening there.

>>16634254
Enough resources for what? Not for everyone to live like a billionaire. You can sit here and pretend 'well if everyone in the world had the same mediocre living standard we'd all get along" but you're stupid wrong. We can look at autarchic pre-capital tribal societies like the Maori, who had no real way for individuals to obtain a surplus of goods (capital), and they fought constantly. Not over capital but over pussy. Post-scarcity in this context doesn't refer to "when everyone can get a fully belly on cereal grains and fresh drinking water". It means all desires soothed. We could live in a world where there is no starvation and you will still have "nations".

>>16634312
>You'd be harder pressed to find some objective upper-limit number that you want to cut-off personal worth at
Personal worth isn't having more rights than others. The emancipation of humanity involves collective ownership over the earth and all it's resources, rather than everyone being enslaved to an elite class of people.

>>16634322
>Not over capital but over pussy
Of course you're an incel, your entire fashy world view is an attempt to capitalize and secure pussy.

>>16634360
Are you suggesting conflict will cease with the advent of communism

>>16634317
>But they're the most developed existing socialist country, so it's pertinent to see what's happening there
Why are you so obsessed with China? They're more similar to national socialism than what I'm arguing for dipshit

>>16634376
>obsessed
I mentioned them once you freak. I couldn't care less for your judgements of what they 'resemble'. I'm interested in what they actually are, which is a form of socialism. And thus, a signpost. Not an ideal, not a worker's paradise (lmao), and certainly not our friends.

>>16634375
The point of communism isn't an end to human drama, but it would solve a lot of very jarring problems. The social retardation of incels is primarily rooted in atomization and individualism, I know they often blame bad genetics but it's just a cope

>>16634360
>I can't argue with him so I'll just call him an incel!
What is this even supposed to mean?

>>16634403
I said conflict, but I'll take that as a no then. Which makes your weird incel stuff pointless.

>>16634400
I don't give a fuck about China or dengism/national socialist capitalism, redditor.

>>16634403
Nobody is talking about incels in this thread except you? You got btfo when you claimed that globalism would end tribalistic conflict so now you're juts pivoting to screech about some unrelated bullshit.

>>16634413
>Which makes your weird incel stuff pointless
You brought it up, which I can see where your line of thought is coming from

>>16634415
I am neither a redditor nor a Dengist. This does not change the fact of China's socialism. Millionaires also existed in the USSR. They doubtless would've existed in the anarcho-states, if they'd lasted longer.

>>16634418
>Of course you're an incel, your entire fashy world view is an attempt to capitalize and secure pussy.
Dilate

>>16634416
The other guy brought up the commodification of vagina among the Maori. I know 4chan enough to know about incel theory, hypergamy, and the redpill lense. His point is that there's something inherently existential and scarce that we would fight over (pussy), that's what he was implying

>>16634418
You literally brought up incels out of nowhere here >>16634360 instead of replying to what I actually said.

>>16634434
He said there was conflict over it. Do you disagree?

>>16634172
Idk it's not like China is taking in a bunch of immigrants

>>16633812
Finally a true continuation of marxist material analysis that's about biology

>>16634437
see
>>16634434
Learn to read and comprehend your own points, perhaps it was an unconscious Freudian slip on your part but either way not my problem

>>16634434
Are you disputing that the Maori frequently fought, primarily for the possession of women? I can pull a quote from the book if you want. It was an example of how conflict is inherent to the human experience but for some reason you're taking it in some kind of weird incel context?

>>16634441
applying marxism to biology would imply the opposite of what you're assuming

>>16634446
No, you need to learn to read and comprehend other people's points. I wrote a paragraph and you read one sentence and got triggered into some weird unrelated rant about incels. And you're talking about Freudian slips lmao?

>>16634447
>Are you disputing that the Maori frequently fought, primarily for the possession of women? I can pull a quote from the book if you want. It was an example of how conflict is inherent to the human experience but for some reason you're taking it in some kind of weird incel context?
That's why living in some isolated shithole island is a retarded idea, there's plenty of sexy women in the world.

>>16634453
>No, you need to learn to read and comprehend other people's points. I wrote a paragraph and you read one sentence and got triggered into some weird unrelated rant about incels. And you're talking about Freudian slips lmao?

>>16634403
Why would individualism still not be a factor in pair bonding?

>>16634462
pair bonding is a meme, it's called a relationship you freek

>>16634456
The Earth is an isolated shithole island. I repeat my point, which you have blatantly avoided addressing: post-nationalism is impossible without post-scarcity, scarcity referring to a sufficient abundance of every conceivable resource for everyone.

>>16634478
>The Earth is an isolated shithole island
You do realize how enormous the planet is, right? If one area is desolate you migrate to a more abundant area.

>>16634460
kek

>>16634483
>I repeat my point, which you have blatantly avoided addressing: post-nationalism is impossible without post-scarcity, scarcity referring to a sufficient abundance of every conceivable resource for everyone.

>>16634495
>scarcity referring to a sufficient abundance of every conceivable resource for everyone
Why can't we restructure civilization to distribute resources more evenly and less wastefully? Right now our entire global civilization is just a machine that milks the world to service the 1%, and privileged peoples

>>16634508
This can only happen when human will and favourable conditions coincide. Otherwise this is just repurposed bourgeois rationalism.

>>16634439
With their current demographics, I believe it's highly likely that they will over the next few decades.
>https://www.populationpyramid.net/china/2020/

>>16634531
>you can only stop rolling around in feces when human will and favourable conditions coincide
I know autists hate change

>>16634533
>Given a 48% population decline expected in China, Nigeria will become the second biggest country globally by 2100, behind only India.
https://qz.com/africa/1881468/how-fast-is-africas-population-growing/
Yep. This is why, despite being accused of being one itt, Dengists are retarded.

>>16634544
>human will is a key driver of world-history
>'you hate change'
You're the autist

>>16634244
You totally missed the point of that post, amazing.

>>16633830
This
If the marxists dropped the internationalism and idpol they'd make huge gains

>>16635087
His point
>all da people around da world have different preferences for city, rural, or fug off from me
>this is all biologically rooted and fixed in nature
>therefore all da races are different so no gommunism only nationalist gonservative gommunism nazbol gang rise!

>>16635092
ethnocentrism is idpol

>>16633836
>>16633840
both true

>>16634483
You complete fucking retard, you retarded nigger baboon, it doesn't matter if it is an island or a planet, the fact is that both of these are ultimately closed systems with limited reproductive resources.

>>16635092
>if they dropped the idpol and replaced it with idpol they'd make huge gains

>>16633873
Chad Black Panther vs Virgin Starbucks Socialist

>>16633877
A mosque on every street corner inshallah

26 posters and how many have actually read the book? How many are discussing it? This thread belongs on /pol/ and shame on you for posting on.

>>16634180
Looks like Jew hair to me.

>>16635152
>>16636085
Racialism is not idpol, because race is not simply an identity, but a biological truth. Leftists, who believe that race and gender are socially constructed, and form groups based on race (BLM for example), are engaged in identity politics.

>>16636547

What a nigger opinion.

>>16633830
You mean national socialism?

>>16636601
Is fax

>>16634460
is that a MOTHAFUCKIN NEON GENESIS EVANGELION reference?

>>16634244

I never said "have never lived", brainlet. I meant the average white is going to at least understand/prefer living in a small town or rurally, even if some of them live in a large densely packed city. Look at the coffin apartments in Hong Kong... The toleration for tightly packed spaces (and filth!) is far higher for Poos and Chinese, whereas the average white is going to start to feel like that kind of living is making them mentally unwell. Look at this shit:

https://petapixel.com/2013/02/19/cramped-apartments-in-hong-kong-shot-from-directly-above/

Look at these Africans in Lagos:

https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2020/06/640/320/lagos-garbage-1-Getty-Images.jpg?ve=1&tl=1

Mumbai:

https://www.swedbrand-group.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Photo6.jpg

Like I said with Finns - they tend to, on average, prefer to stay the fuck away from eachother most of the time. They didn't even have the Chinese Aids virus bad, because surprise, they stay away from eachother. The 10m spacing on a Finn train platform is literally a meme:

https://www.istockphoto.com/photo/people-waiting-for-train-on-subway-platform-helsinki-finland-gm825244182-133750043

You never see whites willingly live in condition like that unless they are weebs or in prison.

I would also like to differentiate Asians from Japs, because at least they seem to live in small spaces for the sake of efficiency and they are generally clean and well kept.

The point is that some groups can live alongside eachother. Some can't because they ruin everything.

>>16634360
The “marxist” reveals himself as a liberal again and again

>>16633812
never heard of this guy but leviathan and its enemies does that

>>16636611
No.

>>16636547
I would argue female identity is much more directly tied to biological reality than our modern conception of race, but that doesn't mean feminism isn't identity politics.
Even if the lines we draw between races of people didn't have an arbitrary (or culturally informed) element to it, racism would still be idpol.

>>16633812
Based

>>16638265
idpol will always exist

>>16638306
So you agree racialism is idpol then? Cool.

>>16633812

>>16633812
Capitalism is totally incompatible with ethnocentrism. Supply and demand of the labor market. Mass immigration organized by the Capitalists. More supply of work force on the labor market. Cheaper work force prices. More profit. This very simple equation is totally ignored by most Capitalist reformists, like fascist, natsoc. Which are practical jews worshipping money by the way.
By the way, Capitalism died in 2008.

>>16635092
>If the marxists dropped the internationalism and idpol they'd make huge gains
Marxism who read Marx is not about internationalism. Stop being on twitter, facebook and youtube channels. Read Marx.
Also stop talking about Marxists who didn't read Marx.

>>16638924
Based.

>>16638306
Our identity is the human race

>>16639319
Those same forces which incentivize 'capitalism' to atomiz, alienate and make liquid their human resources in order to maximize production/power act on political-economic systems of every other stripe as well, socialism included.
>Capitalism died in 2008
>the same deracination, atomization still occurring
case in point, I guess.

>>16633812

i too listen to caribbean rhythms

>>16633812
>ethnocentrism within a Marxist framework
Yah it was called nazism friend and was based af

>>16638355
Yes and groups will always advocate for their self interest.

>>16633812

OP, just look at the Basques. I have Basque relatives in Basque country who can't believe that I (an American) am not in favor of extreme socialist policy. I then ask if they would feel the same if they had to act that way towards the Spanish as well, or the French, and the mood sours. They love taking care of their own, though. It's actually pretty nice.

anyone ITT ever read a book?

>>16640648
Once. I can't recommend it.

>>16640648
This >>16640763

>>16640437
>Those same forces which incentivize 'capitalism'
Here we go. The classic conspiracist. Those "forces" don't incentivize "Capitalism". "Capitalism" incentivize those "forces". Conspiracy don't make history. History makes conspiracy.
I wonder how long it will take for people like you to understand this. I understood around 2015.
>>Capitalism died in 2008
>the same deracination, atomization still occurring
It died, but it is maintained artificially alive through quantitative easing. Of course zombie Capitalism is worse, because it has to do everything possible in order to create every little profit possible, even if the general accumulation would be impossible without money printing.

>>16635107
>therefore all da races are different so no gommunism only nationalist gonservative gommunism nazbol gang rise!

White people actually can't be Marxist. Read J. Sakai.

>>16635092
those were revolutionnary syndicalists who later turned into fascists
for some reason marxists on the internet came back to the statu quo ante, ignoring a century worth of thought in order to smugly proclaim that "marxism is a science and everything I don't like is irrational"

>>16639345
>Marxism who read Marx is not about internationalism
so marxists didn't read marx until the time of sorel then?

>>16643192
Marx almost never talk about internationalism in his writings. However, normie 4channers think that Marx is all about internationalism, which it clearly isn't.

>>16642550
>The classic conspiracist
Fuck off retard, I was talking about impersonal, Darwinian historical forces. No group or conspiracy could possible have such a universal biasing effect on history. Kill yourself you gold bricking faggot, you are not nearly as smart as you think you are.

>>16643607
So you are not like the average 4channer. Congrats. Most of the time those assumption are correct, because most of the 4channers are idealist conspiracists. When the average 4channer talks about forces, usually it's about (((forces))). But (((forces))) are only a result of Capitalism development. (((Forces))) don't appear in the primitive tribe, or in the Germanic tribes.

>>16643675
>But (((forces))) are only a result of Capitalism development.
This is not a parsimonious explanation, for how can you explain the origin of capitalism, then? Memetic mutation which set society off on some death trip? Or is 'capitalism' just another name for an advanced society?
More likely is that past a certain stage of development, when a society truly becomes a massive, technological society, the selection pressure for intensification of production overwhelms all other pressures for social development. Inter-society competition becomes too great to forsake any development which results in a net gain in production/power, and intra-society conflict acts similarly, leaders being forced to keep the rickety ship of a massive social machine composed of human beings in the shape of something approaching a cogent whole. Become borg or perish. That every modern society, capitalist or socialist has shown convergent evolution towards the same technocratic power min-maxing bears this out.
No, I do not think the birth of a particular arrangement of production got us here, Rather, purely Darwinian forces, applied to and magnified by societies of a sufficient size and power level make this sort of development unavoidable.

>>16643737
The socialism you refer to is State Capitalism. The thing is, Capitalism died in 2008. So we are in an impasse.
Even if your explanation hold some truth, currently, Capitalism is totally out of control.

>>16634254
This is peak fagleft, desu.

>>16643856
If “capitalism died in 2008” then what are we in now?

>>16643192
Capitalism is an international system that must be taken down on an international level but some retards take that to mean some communism will be a “multicultural” global village utopia

>>16633830
>he doesn’t know
Ferdinand Lassalle..

>>16644028
Oh, I know anon.

Is Sorel worth reading?

>>16644010
Zombie Capitalism, maintained artificially alive through fictitious credit, aka quantitative easing, aka money printing, aka BRRR.

nazbollers rise up

>>16640583
Their perceived self-interest, sure.

It's incredible how there's a negative correlation between racism and understanding marx - the more racist you are, the worse your takes are about marx.

Fucking brainlets, all of you: be ashamed!

>>16645823
>racists can't be Marxists

>>16645823
I mean Marx had a pretty good understanding of Marx and he still hated THAT JEWISH NIGGER LASSALLE

>>16633812
Racism is the magnum opus of the past, present, and future continuum. It is a truth so unequivocal and forthright that even after hundreds of years of intellectual movements, it espouses such a hierarchy that will stand the test of time, even after its apparent destruction. Its mark on the world will haunt whatever retarded mutt race that permeates the craters of our war-torn earth, a super-secession of pure idolatry. Its ability to dismiss the thousands of years of nu-thought is nothing but a footnote to the absolute rage its blasphemy ensues; it is often the one truth that dehumanizes a person completely in the eyes of society, yet it is the one truth seemingly natural to the mind and soul.

>>16644024
Capitalism is money. Of course it is international. To think brainlet natsocs still don't get this.

>>16645823
Engels was racist, Gramsci was racist, did they not understand Marx?

>>16645803
Yes. One that originates from their group consciousness

>>16646061
woke

>>16633830
>>16633812
All neo-marxists are pretty much crypto fascists already. Sprinkle in some of those birthrate statistics and Madison Grant...boom.

>>16646612
More like neo-marxists (as marxist who have read marx), are ex fascists who realized the necessity to abolish the Capital.

>>16646623
the syndicalists already had this figured out though, the fascist critique of capital existed before neo-marxism

>>16646612
Neo marxists are marxists who have mythologized a struggle against an enigmatic fascist threat over actual care for abolishing capitalism or helping the working class.

>>16646651
The issue was the fascist critique didn’t go far enough and in the modern age is no longer relevant

>>16646652
>Neo marxists are marxists who have mythologized a struggle against an enigmatic fascist threat
Who is saying this?

>>16646919
The neo-marxists

>>16636611
No Marxism in Nazism, that would be Prussian Socialism faggot.

>>16646652
Actually i'm a little lost with the terms. What are neo-marxist, progressivists? In this case yes. But you should know that these people are financed by the esthablisment, and are not that many in the real world, or even on the internet. They look like they are a force, because they are invited in mainstream medias, have "responsabilities" in universities. Other than that, they don't really exist.
On 4chan, we are mostly marxist abolitionists, with a few Marxist leninists.