/lit/ - Literature

>>16602982
Don't know, but he's right. Working class people tend to be more conservative.

>>16602989
I wouldn’t say conservative, I would say, “simping for whatever system the ruling classes use in that particular point and time”

Peasants simping for feudal lords is a historical thing and peasants themselves were the biggest defenders of the feudal indentured servitude system because they couldn’t imagine anything else. Lumpen peasants aren’t based they’re cringe, what you would call dumb cattle goyim

> So long as they (the Proles) continued to work and breed, their other activities were without importance. Left to themselves, like cattle turned loose upon the plains of Argentina, they had reverted to a style of life that appeared to be natural to them, a sort of ancestral pattern...Heavy physical work, the care of home and children, petty quarrels with neighbors, films, football, beer and above all, gambling filled up the horizon of their minds. To keep them in control was not difficult.
George Orwell

>>16602989
In America, but that's because any type of labor party was rooted out. The past three generations haven't been able to interact with Real socialist ideas. Warps their view on the subject.

>>16603008
>"simping for whatever system the ruling classes use in that particular point and time"
But that's just what conservatism is.

I wish we could ban Americans from partaking in any kind of discussion regarding politics.

>>16603036
cope

>>16603041
Yes, conservatism is slave morality. Why do you think all of the “values” are work ethics

*petit-bourgeois
Because it is a reflection of the mirror of production, and fits furthermore in 19th-century economic thought like a fish in water (as Foucault said).

>>16602982
Marxist thought is hugely preoccupied with tapping into revolutionary potential either through manipulating material conditions or through propaganda tactics to produce this or that response from the proletariat vis a vis the means of production.
Only bourgeoisie have the resources and likely the wherewithal to occupy themselves with this kind of thing.

>>16602982
Learn to use these words properly.

WHY is it so difficult for Americans to deal with foreign languages.

Bourgeoisie is the noun: 'the Bourgeoisie'.

Bourgeois is the adjective (although it can be used as a noun: 'a bourgeois').

Perhaps next you'll learn to pronounce it properly.

>>16603046
Right, it's like discussing literature with someone who can't read.

>>16603141
Marxism never took off in the Anglosphere because the words most critical to Marxism ideology are stupid French words

>>16603141
>>16603147
>>16603046
How do you know instantly that it's an American? Has their reputation always been that bad?
T.non-Westerner

>>16602982
Marxism is bourgeois in that it is materialistic, concerned not with the spiritual circumstances of man, but rather with the physical conditions of his working and domestic life; it has as its aim not liberation of the self, or aspiration to some higher plane, but rather the extension of the comforts of the bourgeois to the working masses, thus revealing the limitations of this worldview: that the only thing worth having is material gain, and an increase in prosperity understood in material terms; it is thus willing to sacrifice freedom, spirit, humanity itself, nobility and passion; it is profoundly middle class and anti-aristocratic, negating and disputing the ancient human values, without any reference to the transcendent self, but bring dragging mankind down into the murk of materiality.

>>16603008
>I wouldn’t say conservative, I would say, “simping for whatever system the ruling classes use in that particular point and time”
No. They are conservative, that can mean anything and their politics can change but much more slowly than others. In my country it means ethnic nationalism and social democracy as it has been for a hundred years.

>Peasants simping for feudal lords is a historical thing and peasants themselves were the biggest defenders of the feudal indentured servitude system because they couldn’t imagine anything else. Lumpen peasants aren’t based they’re cringe, what you would call dumb cattle goyim
Are you a child? Meme buzzwords, check. Empty elitism, check. Know's nothing about history, check. Hate's the workingclass, check.
Also, Orwell loved the workingclass very much and wrote entire books about them.

As for so-called fuedalism, why do you just make up random crap that satisfies your uneducated sentimentalism? For starters, High to Late middleages was a lot better for the peasantry than early modernity right to the 20th century, in that they were respected and well-off materially. Serfs were the minority as well though could often be a better position.

>>16603163
It's an educated guess based on their propensity for precisely this mistake.

>>16603155
>Anglosphere
>Critical
>-ism
>Ideology
>Stupid

Most of our academic language is French you utter pleb.

>>16602982
He means that a political idea invented by an elitist who never worked and had no concept of the ires of the working man is inherently bourgeoisie and elitist.

>>16603179
You can’t have a good spiritual life without having your material needs met. Maslows pyramid bitch. Self actualization comes last. That’s why Marxism is concerned with the material

>>16603188
t. lumpen

>>16603204
That a view is bourgeois doesn't mean it is wrong.

>>16603204
>You can’t have a good spiritual life without having your material needs met
Do you even ascetic

Just because it is doesn’t make Marxism wrong
Class analysis is the objectively superior lens to analyze history through

>>16603204
>Maslows pyramid
Loool ishygddt

>>16603204
However, in answer to your point: Is it true that the spiritual life will follow from meeting material needs? This does not seem to be the case in the West, where the material circumstances of the majority have been vastly improved, and yet their spiritual life continues to degrade, not in spite of, but perhaps due to conditions of material abundance; a society oriented around enjoyment and comfort does not produce individual greatness, but rather the sinking of all to the lowest possible level; the levelling of classes does not lead to the raising of the masses, but rather the contamination of the upper echelons, and their inevitable diminution -- in short, without the spiritual grounding that hierarchy helps secure, and without a genuine transcendental alternative that Anarchism (I would argue) could provide, but instead a purely egalitarian ethic based on Marxist materiality that severs all links to the Past, and leads to an irresistible decay, Society will continue to descend into despair: like the suicide of the man who has everything, a nation whose material conditions are ideal moves rapidly to a violent end.

>>16602982
I dont know either, i guess it depends on the time and context the person says.

I've seen the term taking two opposite meanings, its either the "protestant middleclass from the 50s" or the "hippie consumer hedonistic party girl" type. I guess since those quotes come from the 60s and 70s they are probably refering to the former.

>>16603229
>Class analysis is the objectively superior lens to analyze history through
I honestly think its one of the most famous ways to analyze history and society but at the same time the one that makes people prone to bad interpretations and explaining poorly things that are simply swept under the rugs of "oppression" and "well they are like this simply because they dont know better", or a very eurocentric way in other words.
They dont take into account the intersubjectivity of power relations and the objects of desire people have inside each socius so people always evaluate it with a "materialist" (although a very ambiguous defenition) lens so the conclusions always boil down to "alright this class of people oppress this one and they do it since they dont let them live or have the thing which i consider good".

>>16603204
>You can’t have a good spiritual life without having your material needs met
bro do you know even a single thing about the history of spiritual thought

>>16603204
>>You can’t have a good spiritual life without having your material needs met. Maslows pyramid bitch. Self actualization comes last.
hunter gatherers say the exact opposite

>>16603204
Im not even a christian or religious larper but how can you even explain that you had literally whole societies of monks in various places of the world and from different religions literally restraining themselves from material needs and never even thinking they were once oppressed by someone or missed something?

>>16603257
But most people don’t have a materially good existence. Your average person can’t afford to go to the doctors, can’t afford uni, or housing. Wage slavery and indebtedness leaves no time for spiritual contemplation

>>16603204
You Fucking Moron! You Cretin! You're A Fuckhead! That's What You Are! A Fucking Shithead!
The most important thing in life is being respected and useful to the tribe, not having a comfy apartment and having rights to get a free abortion or get a free treatment for HPV.

Hedonists and leftists are what destroy society.

>>16603346
The most important thing in life is being a good goy who puts the interests of others above his own?

>>16603330 escaping into the Spiritual world is obviously coping mechanism. In medieval Europe it was common to have second and third sons going to Monasterys as they wouldn't want to divide the heritage.

>>16603356
From a materialist perspective yes, but obviously not from the spiritual perspective. You could even reverse it and say people cope with spiritual poverty through trying to fill the hole with material wealth.

>>16603356
>escaping into the Spiritual world
And what makes something spiritual or non spiritual? People make concepts and invest desire into them and thats their own self interest talking, you may make a separation from some concepts that are more abstract and others more close to "bodly needs" but even your entire life is populated of social concepts that you wouldnt deem as "spiritual" because you are too used to them.

How else would you have people willing to die and sacrifice themselves for their religion, nation, some lover, friend or even whole family? All those are social concepts that could be deterretorialized or broken down untill you dont know what a nation is, what a family is or what a friend is.
People love to cling into whatever concepts and formations the social body educates them to and presents them and even take pleasure in placing some above the other; take the need to pee for example, almost everyone (expect some rare instances) has coded their need to pee, yet people love to repress that need and wait untill they are in a socially accepted place to do it.
I would even bet you that if we could lock up an entire stadium of people wanting to pee there would be a lot of cases of people holding it for so long that they would get some health problem because of it.

>>16603339
Rejecting Marxism doesn't mean accepting Capitalism.

>>16603439
It doesn’t but Marx is the quintessential anti capitalist thinker. You have others of course but he is number 1

>>16603453
>Marx is the quintessential anti capitalist thinker
I would argue that his ideals of dialectical materialism and his idea of exploiting capitalism's mechanism for breaking social forms and homogenize ""culture and traditions"" into a giant globalization helped support capitalism and liberal and enlightenment ideologies even more than anything.

>>16603008
>Heavy physical work, the care of home and children, petty quarrels with neighbors
The entirety of Growth of the Soil is about how based this is

>>16603453
Are you ESL? Or just in high school?

>>16603492
based bookposter

>>16602982
It's obviously sociologically bourgeois, so that's an obvious point.
It's also an extension of liberal and enlightenment ideals brought forward by the bourgeoisie.
Lastly, it serves bourgeois interests insofar as what it asks of proletarians (becoming intellectuals, political leaders) is impossible for them on average. So after a bit of reshuffling of the cards, it secretly reproduces the old class dichotomies, but while pretending to have abolished them. To help the average manual worker is actually to admit that he never could do better and become a fantasmatic New Man, but to ensure an environment adequate to his nature where he can thrive. Ofc., many proles could do better and many bourgeois shouldn't have the job they have, these are just generalizations.

>>16603356
>In medieval Europe it was common to have second and third sons going to Monasterys as they wouldn't want to divide the heritage.
Not as often as you think, although that depended on the exact time and place. More often an aristocratic family would do that to a black sheep or as a 'punishment' for impregnating the servant girl or being homosexual. Often a son would be sent into a church career with the hopes they would gain an amount of wealth and power, or to improve the image and standing of the family.

>>16603523
not the dude you're replying to, but I loved growth of the soil; it seemed to tranquil. I really hated the wife (can't recall her name right now) though. She was one of the most unlikeable characters, maybe ever.

>>16603492
It’s only based if you aren’t actually living it. Why do you think once industrialization happened, everybody got the fuck off their farms? It only sounds good in the mind of someone who larps

>>16603517
Nothing wrong with that sentence

>>16602989
thats only because the republican party is the only substantial political institution that makes even nominal appeals to the working class, for like the last 20 years. From like 1900 til the mid 60s every working class guy was a communist

>>16603036
>In America
No, everywhere. You think some Russian, Italian or Mexican peasant is pro-abortion, pro-trannies, pro-degeneracy? lmao get fucked burgerkikes.

>>16603806
No, the Democratic Party makes promises to the working class that it doesn't keep while the Republican Party openly opposes all working class movements and offers them nothing. I think they just prefer the Republican Party's transparency, not to mention their stance on religious issues.

>>16603908
Marxists are anti-tranny though? While they are for solidarity with transgenders in the working class, they're fundamentally against the 'gender fluidity' ideology.
It's basically idealism vs materialism, many communist organizations are being painted as transphobe due to this.

>>16603229
>Class analysis is the objectively superior lens to analyze history through
Sure, but being in support of class dissolution is the objectively cowardly ethical stance.

>>16603209
Yep, a child. All you've done is list synonyms for not-elite. I'll give you a tip: insisting upon ignorance and closemindedness are not being elite in fact the opposite is true. Elitism is demonstrated if not intuitively known and recognised, not presupposed and insisted upon.

>>16604123
Modern Marxists love trannies. Do you live under a rock?

>>16603163
when they see a post they don't like, they assume it was made by an american

>>16604258
They don't? Some burger parties maybe, and 'socially progressive' internet leftists. But there is a strong marxist critique of this bourgeois decadence taking hold of alienated youth.
Here read this as an example:
https://thecommunists.org/2019/03/23/news/the-reactionary-nightmare-of-gender-fluidity/

>>16602982
Marxism has been conflated with lgbt/race bullshit and no longer cares about the working man. They claim to, but thier conception of the working man is the undergrad starbucks barista, not her father that works 60 hours a week for a corporation to let her attend college.
The moajority of soceity hold trade workers in contempt from my experience (both as a trade worker and as someone who earned a BA).
Marxists are viewed as children, because many of them are unwilling or unable (often both) to attend to an actual productive profession. IE Bernie Sanders failing as a carpenter and becoming a politician.
The working class does not give a fuck about your absurd philosophical abstractions. They have bills to pay and children to feed (which is something most marxists do not have in my experience). When you have people relying on you, you tend to become more conservative, less radical, and more responsible. Everything got fucked up in the 60s, and you can thank the racial politics of the US for it.
All that being said, marxist is bourgeoise because on the bourgeoise have the ability to philosophical theoreticians. They are infantile due to their lack of real world experience, and thus the proletariat looks at them in disdain and contempt.
A graduate student in a colored shirt calling for a Marxist revolution while sipping his latte has NO way to find common ground with the tradesmen, lineworker, gold star family, etc. Modern marxists have privileged interests, and the working class couldn't give two fucks about any of it.
You lost the working class solidarity when you encouraged racial riots, tyrannies, etc.

>>16604325
I think you need to look up how to use the word 'conflated'

Trump having no ideology isn't really a good case against him. Especially considering we are getting to the point where men like that will start fighting purely for power instead of caring for petty ideas like capitalism or communism

>>16604254
pseud

>>16604123
Why do you respond to every reply to your posts like this: "They aren't though?" and "Marxists are anti-tranny though?". You sound like massive faggot.

>>16604325
>The moajority

I can't tell if this is intentional, but I like it.

>>16604123
>>16604309
Stop starting replies with questions that are actually statements like this. You sound like a condescending prick.

>>16605351
>>16605396
Cry harder redditor.

>>16602982

Basically only the middle class can possibly think Marxism is a good idea because they have the smallest possible stake in it and in fact the smallest possible stake or control in anything at all
Just as in smaller more easily understood systems such as the common structure of capitalist businesses those in the middle both have the least impact and are the easiest to manipulate
Marx went on and on about how the proletariat should own the means of production without seriously considering if they actually wanted to or could rise to such an occasion
Because the reality is they don't and never will they wouldn't know what to do with it and if they had greater ambitions they wouldn't be the lower class in the first place
Their ultimate desire is to be ruled and told what to do they just want to make more money and receive more benefits while thinking as little as possible simple desires for simple people
The problem now is that things have changed since Marx's time the middle class is larger than ever and so that romanticized idea of the worker uprising is too despite the fact that in the modern neoliberal globalist world it is far less likely to happen as Marx originally planned and just as unlikely to happen at all

>>16604324
Isn't Zizek anti-tranny as well?
A lot of SJWs say he's a far right racist in disguise.

>>16602982
Marxism is theory
Theory is bourgeois
Praxis is proletarian
The real living movement of the class in its own conscious self emancipation is praxis
Writing long political economic tomes, even if aimed at the ordinary blue collar worker like Capital, is not praxis.

>>16605561
Except in bed. Remember his fantasy is to have a conversation with a woman and not fuck her. That means his real life is all fucking all the time. Anything goes. Coke goes up his nose.

>>16603637
They were either forced off their farms by land seizures or the mechanization of agriculture in other areas made their mode of farming economically unviable. Everyone in the factory would much rather have been working "11 hour" days outside but it wasn't a choice

>>16605598
Hammond and Hammond and then Thompson Time

Lots of people wanted to work 11 hours indoors, cooking, reading god, fucking and drinking while working.

>>16605628
What's Hammond & Hammond?

If you get to spent large portions of your day just theorizing you are more than likely not a prole, a propped up prole or larping

>>16605663
Hammond and Hammond Village Labourer
Hammond and Hammond Urban Labourer
Hammond and Hammond Skilled Labourer

They’re the seminal gap between Condition by Engels and Thompson’s Making. And they’re more encyclopedic than either on total conditions. FUTON by the way thanks archive.org

>>16605686
I get to spend large amounts of my day theorizing because I’m paid to use my body and the boss can’t touch my mind. I turn up the jazz and plan who gets shot now and who gets shot later. When the BLAAAAAAAACK FREIGHTER with one hundred guns pulls into port.

Also read Gramsci on mental labour. The subsumption of human effort is independent of hand heart mind or cunt: all can be formed into alien value by production.

>>16605581
>That means his real life is all fucking all the time
Is that true? From the image that he gives and the stuff that he talks about he seems like a pretty "traditional" type of man that has a wife and a kid.
He also spoke a lot agaisnt drugs and the legalization of weed.

>>16605691

Thank you but just to be clear: are you really saying that agricultural laborers weren't moved into industry because of changing economic conditions but because they were enticed by the partying lifestyle of factory workers?

>>16605745
No I’m saying that traditional indoor labour like male household led stocking frame knitters enjoyed 11 hour days like male household led agricultural labourers.

Enclosure wasn’t the issue: female child theft for prison industrial factories was. The earliest machine operatives were young women orphans raped into line by foremen. They weren’t strong agricultural men angry and displaced from land in their 40s.

>>16605806
Interesting thank you

>>16605739
How can a Marxist be "traditional"?

>>16606245
Lot's of Marxists tend to be heterosexual monogamous people that just want better material conditions for the working class.

>>16603051
>prot values
>conservative

>>16603204
This is wrong though.
t. Raised poor, still poor.

>>16606741
But if you reject God then you are not a traditionalist. If you believe in equality rather than hierarchy then you are not a traditionalist. If you want diversity and multiculturalism then you are not a traditionalist. If you believe in feminism then you are not a traditionalist.

>>16606805
Christianity is the single most anti-Traditional religion there is, dude. It's the first Inversion of Tradition. The fact that later Inversions are just even greater in magnitude is irrelevant. What little of Tradition you can get from it, you can get from other religions. The only benefit Christianity had is that certain forms of it (that are now dead) were easier for Westerners to access than say, Sufi orders or Hinduism were.

This is pretty basic stuff, bro.

>>16605739
Actuality is the negation of the fantasy remember. If he says his fantasy is to have a conversation with a woman without having sex with her, what do you think his repressed desires exhibit as?

>>16602989
In America at large you don't even properly know what a conservative is, or a liberal for that matter. I'm not even sure as I type this whether you know what the working class is either.

>>16606805
not traditionalIST just traditional

>>16606805
Vide well brothers, the Second Estate are trying their shit to eliminate our village's culture. Burn the priest.

>>16603163
Oh, it's always an American and they can't even be told. It goes on until an a
American with a fucking brain shows up and tells the original idiot to shut up, which they inevitably do since they're responsive to bullying.

>>16605691
Thanks.

>>16606824
>Christianity is the single most anti-Traditional religion there is, dude.
If you are referring to post-enlightenment liberal """Christianity""" then that may be true.

>>16606851
No, Christianity period. From the very beginning. The very act of generating a homeless beggar-preacher-rabbi over a hereditary-aristocratic-warrior-god-priest-king is inherently an Inversion of Tradition. Christianity is, on its face, satanic in the eyes of the Traditionalist School. It's an up-ending of the proper morality and order of the world. It's a distancing of man from righteousness and goodness. Yes, this is silly, this is one of the main criticisms of the Traditionalist school.

If you're using "traditional" in the same way that "buying a costume for halloween" is "traditional", then yeah sure you're totally right. But that's not what Traditionalism is.

>>16603179
Very good post.

>>16606866
What the fuck are you even saying here are you talking about traditionalism or that trad meme shite, or both?

>>16606850
Cheers, this should considerably big up your understanding of the structure of class in the normally used example of capitalisation/enclosure/industrialisation. Federici's Caliban is probably the only "contemporary" text I'd add but it is about the Transatlantic constellation of capital.

>>16606868
Naw >>16603204

>>16602982
have you ever met a commie from an actually poor background my dude

>>16603327
Hunter gatherers are only happy in places of abundance you absolute pseud

>>16606866
You have the modern misconception that Jesus was some sort of hippie socialist pothead whose teachings were "don't judge people bro, just be tolerant, my dude". That is not Christ. That is propaganda used to pervert the image of Christ. If you are on this site then you should know by now who is behind that and why.

>>16606875
"Traditionalism" refers to the Traditionalist School, of which Evola and Guenon were part of (or are lumped in, it's an academic category applied onto them). In short, man used to live with the Gods in a timeless pure-state of aristocratic virtue and bliss. However, something happened (what is irrelevant), and now we're in the Kali Yuga, the Dark Age, the saeculum obscurum, the Age of the Wolf, whatever. All we have left of the good times are Tradition. The Traditionalists sought to find this Tradition, scattered all across the world, and piece Tradition back together. We can never get anything out of this, at best your soul will achieve a higher state of being and you will be rewarded in the next life for this. Christianity is the first of the Inversions, a series of attempts at driving man further away from Tradition. Elevating poverty over wealth, weakness over strength, begging over taking, treachery over brotherhood, etc. There is still some Tradition to be found in it (it was, after all, the earliest and thus weakest Inversion), and so for Westerners it's best to just get the Tradition from Christianity because you live in Europe and that's where Christianity popped up for historical reasons. The whole "Jesus" and "resurrection" thing is horseshit, but hereditary aristocracies and esoteric priesthoods are Traditional.

This should be recognized as being different from the Perennialists, who believed that the Primordial Tradition had never been, but that man can divine it from the ether and make it a reality and then practice it in this world.

If anon was just referring to the "trad meme" where Coca-Cola is "tradition", then yeah sure I'm talking nonsense. But he shouldn't have used "traditionalism" because that refers to something very specific.

>>16602982
Here's your answer

>>16603257
why are hinduists so cringe

>>16606892
>i've never read the bible, or any books, but the dark ages were BASED because KNIGHTS and GOTHIC CATHEDRALS
You should read Evola, you'd like him, he's like you, only he's more honest with himself and can admit that he's only into religion because hereditary warrior-aristocrats stepping on inbred dirt munching peasants while priests chant in an ancient language that no one understands is cool.

>>16606892
>Space heater
>earbuds for music
>tissue dispenser
>Curtains to keep the sunlight off the books
What a setup

>>16602989
The working class tend not to even be involved with trying to understand the world

>>16603346
>respected
ok
>useful
kill yourself liberal
WHATS USEFUL IS MAXIMIZING ECONOMIC EFFICIENCY AKA MAXIMIZING MARKET GROWTH YOUR TRIBE IS A FUCKING BRAND NAME OWNED BY LITERAL PEDOPHILES AND CIA NIGGERS YOUR ONLY USE IS SUPPLYING THEM WITH MORE CAPITAL TO FUND FOREIGN INTERVENTIONS AND INTERNATIONAL LOLITA HARVESTING RINGS YOU ARE ONLY USEFUL INSOFAR AS THE DEPTH OF YOUR POCKETS AS THEY TURN THEM OUT FOR EVERY LAST PENNY YOU'VE EVER OWNED YOUR VERY EXISTENCE SERVES ONE SINGULAR PURPOSE AND ITS TO SUBSIDIZE A GLOWNIGGER DEATH MACHINE

>>16602982
Can you provide a source or context?

>>16606925
Thanks for speaking for us mate. We needed more of that.

>>16606935
Proles don't know whats best for themselves

>>16606805
>God
who cares
>equality
marxism's goal isn't equality
>diversity and multiculturalism
not marxist
>feminism
not marxist

>>16606901
As far as I'm aware the traditionalist school is the same thing as the perrennialists. I have no idea where the whatever age thing comes into it but I am now thinking about German scientists measuring skulls up in the Himalayas. Anyway, I have to say to you that I do understand although you immediately will assume that I do not, and also that you are quite in error with regards to the mission of Jesus.

We will have constant issues with the terminology if we do not rename what you have referred to as traditionalists.

>>16606944
>but not my real version of marxism!
cope. literally every marxist believes in those things

Every Marxist that I know is a middle class, moderately intelligent but not exceptionally so, neurotic, depressive, self hating, rap music listening, Disney loving normalfag who considers himself a "citizen of the world" or a "world traveler" or something.

>>16606866
Christ is quite literally coming to bring judgement on the world with an iron rod, get the fuck out of here with your pagan bullshit.

>>16606967
if you dont consider yourself a citizen of the world then you're willingly cucking for governments both foreign and abroad . literally getting cucked by every international state apparatus. i recognize no legal authority as legitimate and i will go where i please. covid will not stop me.

Haven't all Marxist thinkers and most of their mainstream revolutionaries been upper class faggots? "Fascist" dictators had more working class backgrounds lmao. Every country that became communist became nationalistic and paid lip service to internationalism, which is pretty good if you ask me. I can respect Mao, Stalin, Che, Fidel, Tito, and Ceausescu. I hate modern communists though. Like Mark Fischer implied, you're just fags more interested in your niche social degeneracy and acquiring power in this system, not interested in dismantling it and creating a new, anti-capitalist one.

>>16602989
>conservative

Depends. Socially conservative, valuing religion, family, disliking LGBT faggotry and so? Probably and only sheltered urbanites can argue otherwise. It is in this sense that modern progressives really are a bourgeois movement, as they are the leisure class imposing its values (which are really a product of capitalist development) on a working class that's generally divorced from them.

Economically conservative, aka laissez faire market liberalism?That will really depend of the region.

>>16606973
Calling yourself citizen of the world is another way of saying you have money.

>>16603008
this is good proof that Dr Peterson was right when he said he noticed socialists don’t actually care about the working class, they just see them as a means towards their goals whether that be socially signaling they are a good person or something else. It’s all fake, religion v. 2

>>16606973
Shut the fuck up you bougie faggot. You don't have anything in common with any working class person that lives in the same town with you, so you definitely aren't of the same class of a hard working Romanian or Chinese peasant.

>>16603141
French is a stupid language, stop feeling superior because of your failed Latin offshoot. Spanish is superior.

>>16606970
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Disappointment

>>16606949
The difference lies in their view of how "The Religion" comes about and what it means for the world after we find it. For the Traditionalists, it's always been and we're just getting bits for our own personal ends, we can never "remake it". For the Perennialists, it's literally the opposite, we need to get it into the world for everyone's sake.

Also the people involved in the two hated each other. I would be totally fine with renaming "Traditionalism" to something else, but I don't think either of us have the clout to get anything to stick.

He means that pretty much every Marxist is either upper or middle class and they pretend they know whats best for the working class but they don't.

>>16606986
Jordan Peterson is a controlled opposition faggot cuck, but he is basically right about that.

>>16603204
>You can’t have a good spiritual life without having your material needs met
disgusting hedonist eat a bullet

>>16603204
Other way around, Marxism argues that spiritual life is basically a cope for material poverty.

>>16602982
>What did he mean by this
The only people who are proponents of "Marxism" are upper middle class faggots who use it as a fashion accessory more than anything.

>>16605561
When has he said this?

>>16606967
They're a citizen of the world, as in they want all citizens of the world to be onions boy, mumble rap listening, product consuming lgbt faggots. These people are a cancer and are tools of capitalism.

>>16606967
In other words, then are bugmen or midwits.
https://youtu.be/byb3ffrBYgU

>>16606934
>Marxist critique [...] is only a critique of capital deriving from the depths of the middle class and the petites bourgeoisies, which Marxism has served for a century with latent ideology: critique of exchange-value but exaltation of use-value, critique therefore at the same time of what still created the almost delirious grandeur of capital and of what remains in it of secularized religion: investment at any price, even at the price of use-value. The Marxist seeks a good use of the economy. The Marxist critique is therefore restricted, petite-bourgeoisie, another step in the banalization of life toward the “good use” of society! Bataille, on the other hand, sweeps this whole slave dialectic away from an aristocratic point of view, from that of the master gripped by his death. One could present this perspective as pre- or post-Marxist. In any case, Marxism is only the disenchanted horizon of capital—everything that precedes Marxism or follows it is more radical than Marxism.
("When Bataille Attacked the Metaphysical Principle of Economy")

>>16606973
People who consider themselves "citizens of the world" go to places like Jamaica for the express purpose of fucking strangers.

>>16607043
Yes exactly. They are very soulless people with a very feminine tendency towards emotional hysteria. They feel a lot more than they think.

True. Marxism is cope for middle class fags who can't into entrepreneurship.

>>16602982
Even Marx sort of recognizes this. It's why the failing petit bourgeoise are the organizers of revolt in Marx's eyes.

Second, look at so-called Marxists in America right now. They overwhelmingly barely know who Marx was or what Marxism is, if they know anything at all. They are organized in primarily white cities (I think Portland is 92% white).

I am in a white collar job where I interact with blue collar workers on a daily basis, construction guys especially, and they would suffer second-hand embarrassment to see a white college student ranting about the lower classes' emancipation.

The idea that Marxism is bourgeoise thinking is as old as Marx, at least.

>>16607006
More information on Jordan Peterson for anons who want to know the truth about this lying, pseudointellectual fraud.
https://youtu.be/5ty7WOrIgSQ
https://youtu.be/WXYuqrO8LLo

>>16607003
Traditionalists (the philosophical school) hold perennialism meaning that all religion originally is from the same source. That's why the terms 'traditionalist' and 'perennialist' are taken to be referring to the same school.

>>16603806
>From like 1900 til the mid 60s every working class guy was a communist
Are you fucking retarded? Read a fucking book you brain damaged cunt.
Most communists were working class, most working class folks weren't communists. Or communists would've gained power through elections in most western countries. They only ever managed to do so allying with other left-wing parties (like in France in 1936) because they lacked numbers otherwise.
And there always was a significant popular right wing. The more rural the poor were, the more right wing they were. Still true today.

>>16607044
>bugmen
This means subhuman, why not just say subhuman?

>>16606938
>don't know
Yeah, knowledge of ideology is a bourgeoisification and a for-itself.

The in-itself uses praxis, not knowledge.

>>16606976
Giap was a secondary teacher. The KAPD were workers. The CWCGB were workers.

>>16607061
>very soulless people
Why do you have to say very here? It's not as though one could be a little bit soulless, they either are soulless or are not.

>>16607105
Because subhuman does not describe the behavior accurately. When you hear "subhuman" it could be a number of things. When you hear someone describe a behavior as "rat-like" or a person as "bug-like" you know what kind of behavior it is in reference to.

>>16607118
Yeah ok I see what you mean. But my point is still correct.

>>16607113
And Mussolini was the son of a blacksmith. Hitler was the son of a customs officer. Salazar was a poorfag from a Portuguese peasent family. Cordreanu was a poorfag from a Romanian peasent family. I can respect some communists, but I find that most communists aren't willing to give any "charity" when it comes to fascism. Hitler had the "Strength Through Joy" program in Nazi Germany. Mussolini had a similar program. Towards the end Mussolini had most of Italian industry under state control. Most fascist states gave orders to business, not the other way around. Communists just piss me off with their dishonesty. I still respect some of them though.

>>16603908
Imagine thinking arbitrary social values are the basis of marxism. The strongest communist parties in the world reject cosmopolitan liberalism.

>>16607129
Do you know what I mean if I called someone a useful idiot?
>>16607146
Not if all people have souls, which is what we know according to all available soul authorities.

>>16607175
>Do you know what I mean if I called someone a useful idiot?
I'd know not to take anything you say seriously.

>>16607160
If you were a worker you'd know what the word "charity" meant. I'm willing to give fascism all the "charity" in the fucking world. When do you want the priests to start raping you, before or after they kill you in the orphanage?

>>16607003
Not him but a cursory reading of Christian and Islamic eschatology would indicate that he was wrong with his prediction even prior to making it.

>>16607186
What ia wrong with the phrase "useful idiot"? That is what the average middle class American Marxist millennial is.

>>16606916
You just described medieval Europe perfectly. If anything the Roman empire was counter traditional, with the rabid debauchery and foreign slaves replacing peasants

>>16607202
I was thinking more about the cliché spouting Egyptians on the interwebs

Why are modern Marxists so virulently anti-white? They want all white people to be spineless self-haters who bow down to black people. Was this part of the original Marxism when Karl Marx first wrote it? Or is it some gay millennial thing?

>>16607202
It's most commonly used by those types.

>>16607219
It's a reaction against white supremacy. Do you know from where the idea of white supremacy comes?

>>16607238
I don't know. Where?
And what white supremacy are they whining anyway? America has been a diverse, tolerant, egalitarian place for a very long time.

>>16603223
>>16603309
>>16607013
>>16603346
>>16603330
Life denying faggots

>>16603356
Agreed

>>16607257
*whining about

>>16607219
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwwNH_r2muw

>>16607263
you're the one crying about muh hierarchy of needs

>>16607257
No, I said a reaction against white supremacists not white supremacy. The anti-white thing is nothing more than to elicit a response to identify the opposition.

It's from America. After the end of slavery, the pseudoscience of racialism was eventually adopted by the white supremacist groups which had formed. Some of these groups also misappropriated certain parts of the Scottish Rite.

Do you think that there is a relationship between one's sense of humor and one's political ideology?
I have noticed that left wing and neoliberal types of people have a snarky, snide type of humor kind of like girls who say "I am fluent in sarcasm." Comedians like John Oliver and Trevor Noah are good examples of this.
Right wing people seem to have a more creative, unique, untamed sense of humor.

>>16606961
>literally every marxist believes in those things
t.retard who gets his idea of marxism from twitter trannies.

>>16606944
>marxism's goal isn't equality
What is it?

>>16607354
The autogestation of the proletariat in its own dissolution, namely, the concrete abolition of man's subserviance to necessity as dictated by the relations between men, as necessitiated solely by increasing productivity.

Equality is a moral concept. Marxism is all about maximising production until production becomes a useless concept.

>>16607298
Take a step back and read what you wrote down till you realize how disconnected from reality it all sounds.

>>16606961
>

>>16607365
Are you referring to objective reality?

>>16607298
>The anti-white thing is nothing more than to elicit a response to identify the opposition.
So they are anti-white to elicit a response from white people who refuse to be kneeling cucks? And they will then call these people white supremacists? So that is nu Marxist logic?

>>16607160
>fascism is actually kinda marxist guys! notice me senpai
fuck off retard

>>16607384
There is no other reality.

>>16607384
You are incapable of seeing the world in an objective manner as it is. Quit being an argumentative faggot, take a step back, and realize nobody gives a fuck about whatever ies and isms you've saturated your feeble fucking mind with. It's delusional.

>>16607391
I couldn't care less what Marxoids think of me. You won't be thinking anything at all when you are in the oven.

>>16605576
Very concise. Quality post.

ITT: people who don't know what marxism is

also applies to every online discussion of marxism ever.

>>16607401
What's wrong with this >>16607298 though? It's all accurate, and if it isn't then point out the faults.

>>16607326
it makes a sense only for social justice warriors and liblefts. if you read marx you will see he is such a humorous guy or you can just watch zizek videos also leftypol memes are good desu

>>16607298
So its essentially a gotcha?

>>16607388
No, you're adding in the kneeling cucks thing yourself. There are actual white supremacists. I wouldn't consider them nu Marxists, I don't even think they're really Marxists but that part doesn't matter.

>>16607435
Thank you. I try to make one quality post a year.

>>16607477
More like an inverted dog whistle.

>>16607482
They shit on white people and if any white people defend themselves they call them white supremacists.

>>16605576
What is praxis?

>>16607456
>point out the faults
The entire post itself is the fault you moron, the line of thinking that would lead you to post about nonsense like this. It's only "accurate" to you because you've inculcated yourself in a fantasy world wherein it plays a significant role. If you didn't have access to the internet you wouldn't believe any of this fucking made up contrived shit.
>we need to stop the ists and their ism because they're the enemy and I'm the protagonist of this feature film

>>16607482
>you're adding in the kneeling cucks thing yourself.
It's actually happening. Even police men and military soldiers were doing it. What an absolute joke these people are

>>16607482
>There are actual white supremacists.
They said that Kyle Rittenhouse, that kid who shot three people in self defense, is a white supremacist. It is obvious they can just call anyone a white supremacist at this point.

>>16607219
White basically means bougie to them and minorities are the ultimate revolutionary subject. White working class they tend to just write off as lumpens

>>16607454
Every online discussion about Marxism also has your exact post: some faggot who says no one in the discussion understands what Marxism is but offers no substantial contribution of his own to the discussion.

>>16607494
>praxis
Praxis is an organisational behaviour preserved between crises of capital by working class communities which gestures forward towards the abolition of classed communities. Praxis can be burning the boss or striking for a raise. But the constituitive element of praxis is increasing the power of the working class to subvert value reproduction.

Praxis is the KAPD analysis and the shot gun.

Praxis is Mao and Tiannamen in Shanghai.

Praxis is Lenin and Budapest Cspel Island defence.

>>16603008
Wow. LOL
This seems to be a common trend among "marxists" that dont seem to try and sympathise with the vast majority of working people, or as you put it "the proles" or "lumpen".

All they say is theat they are "voting against their interest" or just flat out mock them while feigning some charade of working class aesthetic. Not even againt the concept or theory of it. But marxists as a group seem to always have this disgusting air of "We will save you, you noble, filthy, disgusting savages, from yourselves" to them. while wearing chic cloths and attending universities sipping 7 dollar teas.

Why dont you also quote that one passage from Orwell about how he overheard the grumblings of an actual working class person complaining about the "communist" queer who came on the bus.

>>16607506
>The entire post itself is the fault
peculiar sentence you have there

Rather than attempting to discredit the anonymous posteur you are replying to, just go right on ahead there and go ahead and just say what he was wrong about.

>>16607549

Why is the abolition of class a desirable goal? What is wrong with class?

>>16607566
I already explained it in the post shit-for-brains. Go back and read it again. You are disconnected with reality. You have created some fucking imaginary world within your mind wherein all this meaningless shit you've obsessed about plays an active role. In reality, it plays absolutely no role. Take a break from this kind of media in general for a significant period and you will come to notice it is totally inconsequential. It would literally do you no harm, but you won't do it, because you are unhealthily delusional.

>>16607582
For the proletariat and the historical materialist the idea of desire is incomprehensible. The necessity of M—C…P…C'—M'……… is that desire is an incomprehensible side effect of class struggle. To abolish the cycle of value is to abolish class itself. With the abolition of differential control over production, the abolition of control over production is achieved.

This is a result of the incorporation of more and more "secret" control in the nature of the proletariat's self-reproduction as a class-conscious entity. Being conscious of their interests they seek to abolish being controlled by productivity.


This isn't moral. This is inevitable (barring barbarism).

Marxism isn't moralism. It is making things better faster causes result.

Why are Marxists some of the biggest consumers of corporate products?

>>16607610
Muh no ethical consumption

>>16607607
>history inevitably tends towards this state where there is no more oppression between classes or even classes
doubt.mp4

>>16607610
Today, even, most marxists are white, pink, blue and sex collar workers. They have to consume commodities to survive. 90% of working class consumption in the modern economy is in commodity form.

Oh you said corporate, you don't know the difference between commodity and "specific forms" of commodity.

Go eat a shot gun.

>>16607622
>white, pink, blue and sex collar workers.
tell me about your sex collar bb

>>16607622
cant, marxists banned em.

>>16607622
>They have to consume commodities to survive
>I neeeed my funko pops to liiiive
>shot gun
It's shotgun you simpleton.

>>16607622
So it is necessary for these Marxists to watch Avengers Part 27 and Star Wars Episode 12 because they have black people and women in it? And they also have to buy Funko Pops and Antifa hoodies and BLM bumper stickers?

>>16607640
Mate, Marxist workers read back to the time when gunnes were other than shot. Fuck your chain.

>>16607640
Rent, food, transport.

>>16607666
>post is gay & cringe
>satantrips
Checks out.

>>16607607
You didn't answer the question. You just evaded it with pseudointellectual babble that only sounds smart to a midwit.
>no I don't want to abolish class even though that is the stated goal I just think it's inevitable even though I have no evidence or logical reason foe this just trust me dude

>>16607671
>I eat my funko pops and I drive my nintendo switch to work

No education no Marxism, simple as that

>>16607681
>I dum
Please apply for prospective preventative criminal resettlement for sports reeducation.

>>16607671
I know an actual Marxist professor who buys superhero t shirts and funko pops, anon.

>>16607683
exclusive focus on use rather than exchange

>>16607708
Yes, and unless you specify which employer we don't know whether he's proletarian or nomenklatura.

>>16607707
You said that desire is incomprehensible but then you also said they are class conscious and seek to abolish being controlled by productivity.

>>16607683
Anon, have you no compassion? How do you expect a Marxist to live without being able to play minecraft steve in Super Smash brothers?

>>16607671
You know what he means. Being active in capital to support the bare essentials is different from gorging yourself on capitalist bloat.

>>16607717
Man I really wish I had little featureless figurines of literal nobodies with big heads right now. - 20th Century Worker waiting in bread line

Everyone talks about the proletariat and the bourgeois but what about the upper class?

>>16607607
Why do you think that abolishing class makes things better?

Why do Marxists on here pretend they aren't feminists even though Marx himself spoke of his desire for eliminating the woman's role as the home maker and giving her identical and equal status to men?

>>16606925
The records of libraries established in working class communities and the attendance at educational night schools during the late 19th and early 20th centuries would disagree with you. The current zeitgeist of anti-intellectualism in working class communities is a product of the television and now internet age.

>>16607850
In my experience, leftists who describe themselves as anti-feminist or not feminist tend to agree with Marx about eliminating the woman's role as the home maker and giving her identical and equal status to men. What they reject is contemporary liberal feminism and its insistence that any mention of class in political discussions is intended to obfuscate gender and class issues and is 'class reductionist'. They reject the encouragement from dominant liberal culture that women should put their career above family or any other aspect of their lives and a failure to do so is to not live up your full potential as a woman. It is no coincidence that the dominant culture of female empowerment in the workplace has gone hand in hand with a neoliberal economic orthodoxy which has taken us from a place where a one parent income sufficient to support a family to typically being both parents these days. This isn't empowerment: women ought to be able to make a choice about whether to work whilst raising a family, not because they are forced to do so by economic circumstance.

>>16606973
>using the word cuck to ebin get back at those heckin rightwingers
>I recognize no legal authority as legitimate
You are delusional and insane.

>>16606976
Yes. It’s always those high on the ladder—but not the top—that then agitate the proles until they have achieved dominance. They use their education to lord over the uneducated and their status to lord over those who have none. It’s why so many rich “intellectual” social science professors want a social revolution today—so they’ll be on top.

>>16606925
They don’t have to try, mongoloid.

>>16608045
Not that anon, and not a commie neither but laws are made up and are interpreted in whichever way the authorities want, no matter what they say or for what intentions they were written in as law. Just giving you a heads up in case you actually thought laws were legit.

>>16607725
Yeah. Fishen and readen and no utilitaren

>>16605537
I have to disagree. It is not the middle class that is most open to Marxism and communism. Depending on what exactly you mean by "Marxism" and "communism" - most likely the liberalized neo-Marxist shortsighted cancer that concerns itself with the immediate destruction of all things present in service of international Capital, as opposed to organizing all people under the leadership of Labor to create a grander society to succeed our world as a long term project - then I would still maintain it is the working class, the lumpenproletariat, degenerate and disaffected middle class outcasts (homosexuals, pedophiles, free lovers, trannies, ethnic minorities), and the international bourgeoisie.

The lumpenproletariat and the proletariat are confined within their nation against their will. They are coerced into giving every ounce of labor to their nation in exchange for pennies while their rulers engage in decadent hedonism, all the while the middle and ruling classes look down upon them as cultural refuse, only barely tolerating their existence because their labor is the backbone of their nation. Their allegiance does not align with the nation, nor any other class or nation, their class desire is the destruction of their own nation in a fit of myopic vengeance.

The international bourgeoisie, unlike the lumpen and the proles, have achieved cosmopolitan status. Open borders already exists, and has already existed for over a 100 years - just only for Capital. They are citizens of the world first, citizens of their nation second. While not bound by their nation's borders - from their position as the cosmopolitan elites - the concept of nationalism and a people defined by the land they have inhabited for millennia is savage, archaic, and most importantly limiting to their own vision of expanding capitalism to new markets. Their allegiance is not to the nation, as they are above the nation. They seek the destruction of the nation so as to "enlighten" the working classes to the world of open borders that Capital has alone enjoyed for a century.

It is the middle class who are the most ardent anticommunists. Not bound to their nation against their will like the vengeful worker, not citizens of the world by choice like the conniving globalist. Their allegiance is to the land that has provided most fruitfully for them, their families, their ancestors and their progeny. If the working classes are the backbone of the nation, then the middle classes are the soul of the nation. They are the only obstacle that stands between the communist workers and the international capitalists from the complete annihilation of the nation and the world as we know it. The fate of the middle class and the nation is eternally intertwined, such that it may as well be observed that the middle class IS the nation.

With enough power comes the opportunity to choose to live virtuously. This opportunity is denied to the exploited poor, and rejected by the greedy rich.

>>16603806
>rom like 1900 til the mid 60s every working class guy was a communist

kill yourself, fucking lmao

>>16607610
Marx wasn't against consumption

>>16608333
>Marx wanted me to buy all the avengers funko pops and spend the rest of my cash on twitch donations I swear

>>16605537
>>16608311

To continue, it should be asked what EXACTLY communism is.

The modern Western "communist" is either a godless degenerate, or a devout worshipper of the dollar - degenerate all the same. Instead of espousing class-first politics, they put racial rhetoric front and center. They lionize weakness and transgression over strength and unity. It can be rightfully said that this is not "Marxist" or "communistic" because ultimately these people believe in nothing but the immediate subversion of the world as we know it. They only know destruction, and are either unwilling or incapable of creating and socially organizing. This is completely alien to the communists and Marxists pre-1968, and to third world communists today, who denounced degeneracy as "bourgeois decadence", who exiled sex theorists, racialists, and grievance-types.

As many will tell you, communism is a "stateless, classless, moneyless society", or "the movement that seeks to achieve aforementioned society".

Except, this is not entirely true in of itself, or rather it is a gross simplification.

The explanation of the "classless, moneyless, society" is in Critique of the Gotha Programme by Marx, which also happens to be the most that Marx and Engels ever delve into describing what communism would actually look like. That is to say it is both more complicated than the "classless, stateless, moneyless society" trite so often repeated without thought, as well as more vague and unclear.

Marx and Engels prided themselves in their opposition to utopianism - that is creating an intricate fantasy society totally detached from the world, then seeking to achieve it. Instead, Marx analyzed past societies and realized the source of social transformation was the class dialectic. These contradictions would gradually intensify until they exploded, then repeat. This was a descriptive observation, an underlying principle in human civilization as fundamental as nature itself. It thus stands that communism is not a fantasy to aspire to, but an eventuality to prepare for. Marx thus spent his most of his life analyzing capitalism and then viciously critiquing it as a humanist, but he did not indulge in fiction writing.

Anyone who claims to know what communism would look like is a fool. The truth is, no one can know what it will look like. We only know what it doesn't look like, and that it is coming. The best description of communism lies not in the Manifesto, not in Gothakritik, not in any post-Marx revolutionary or theorist, but in Marx's German Ideology:

"Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established - an ideal to which reality must adjust itself to. Communism is the real movement which abolishes the present state of things."

Communism, ultimately, is negation of our world. It is the inversion, subversion, destruction of everything you know. In a way, both idpol-centric "Marxists", liberals, and international capitalists are all - functionally - communists.

>>16602982
Well it's certainly not aristocratic

>>16607638
this just creates another dichotomy

>>16605561
Zizek is very anti-tranny. It should also be said that while he is a Marxist, he isn't a communist by his own admission.

>>16608671
>It should also be said that while he is a Marxist, he isn't a communist by his own admission.
What is the difference?
And I saw a video in which he said that he is not a Marxist, but a Hegelian.

>>16608787
Marxist as in he uses Marxist analysis in general, but either does not agree that communism is inevitable or desirable.

And that might be. He is very eclectic so he wouldn't have been an orthodox Marxist in the first place.

>>16602982
Because Marxists are purely materialistic in nature.

>>16603179

>>16607096
>Or communists would've gained power through elections in most western countries.
Your lack of understanding of the electoral process and even communism itself is laughable.

>>16602982
What else would it be? It's not aristocratic thinking, and the proletariat don't think.

>>16606805
What I really hate about this pic is that left and right arent on the left and right side, respectively.

>>16603204
>Maslows pyramid
somebody went to high school woah

>>16602982
Hmm i dunno. Maybe he shouldn't have been such a cryptic French asshole? And just said exactly what he meant like a British, German, Italian, American?

>>16602989
>>16603008
French Jacquerie, Paris commune (1871), revolutionary Catalonia (1936-1937), Budapest commune (1956). February revolution (1917), Recent Yellow Jackets.

>>16607391
No dumbass, I'm pointing out that most fascists leaders were working class and actually cared about workers. And Mussolini used to be a Marxist-lite.

>>16609308
Working class doesn't tend to translate into outright communist politics. They have to be indoctrinated with a bunch of bullshit before they get that far. Most working class people are socially conservative and left leaning economically. The working class of one nation don't want to unite with some African peaseant and fight the bourgeoisie. They're oftentimes religious, racist, and nationalist. Good people. My Republican father wants nationalized healthcare and the rich to pay their share. But you're not gonna come up to him with some "religion is the opium of the masses" or internationalist bullshit. Modern communists hate working class people and their ideas.

>>16609146
>German
You sure about that?

>>16608484
To add on your post, Capitalism died in 2008. Died. Nobody realized it yet.

>>16609346
>They're oftentimes religious, racist, and nationalist.
So exactly the opposite of Capitalism. You cannot have mono ethnicity in Capitalism. Mass immigration in order to decrease wages and make more profit. You cannot have religion in Capitalism. Money has become the universal religion. The universal god. You cannot have nationalism in Capitalism. Because globalization is an important component of profit. Guess it will take you a few more years to realize this.
>religion is the opium of the masses"
You misunderstood Marx. Institutionalized religion is to lock up christ in a book. To look him up in a Church, on a cross. Religion is not supposed to be something detached from the group, but something inherent to the group. Immanent. Spirituality is not going to the church. Marx have a favorable view of christianism, but to him, it was too high, too spiritual, to win against the practical needs, the practical interests of humans. Quote from Marx, on the jewish question (translation from Deepl): "it is only in appearance that Christianity has defeated real Judaism. It was too high, too spiritualist, to eliminate the brutality of practical need other than by sublimating it in an ethereal mist."

>>16607556
This