/lit/ - Literature

>>16591022
Cervantes, by far

>>16591022
thervanteth

>>16591022
We just had this thread, why are people so damn adamant about comparing a man known for dramatic lyricism and another famous for narrative prose? Just drop it already.

>>16591022
Shakespeare and it's not even close

>>16591032
stfu cuck

Cervantes.
Shakespeare is just Cervantes's tick

>>16591039
Go fuck yourself.

>>16591033
Prove it

>>16591033
Refuted by Maestro

>>16591065
Surprised that a Spaniard would consider this a matter of intellect. How the mighty have fallen

>>16591033
retroactively refuted by Jesús G. Maestro (pbuh)

>>16591040
>>16591065
>>16591094
Literally poojeet tier
Cope

>>16591105
>>16591059

>>16591094
Under the impression he was born in the 1960's, not the 1460's, but I know very little about contemporary obscurantist Spanish literature professors

>>16591022
It isn’t a competition

>>16591022
It is a competition.

Cervantes brutally mogged Shakespeare.

>>16591039
the bleeding lonely PowerPoint scholar has woken from her love nest while charleston douses aunt gemima over her break breakfast chicken and gluten free waffles you fucking pathetic shit

>>16591154
Now write it without crying, cuck

>>16591162
wtf? why did mods pin this?

cervantes has better prose, shakespeare is better in verse. why do you faggots always need to compare people with different skills without giving the criteria we should judge by?

>comparing the best novelist and one of the most innovative writers in history with a mere sonnetist and playwright

>>16591162
I can’t do it, you have my sympathy, these tears are for you

>>16591022
Shakespeare looks like your average middle aged dad with a couple daughters, he just has a little longer hair.

>>16591241
Sonnets are much harder to write well than novels.

>>16591032
>about comparing a man known for dramatic lyricism and another famous for narrative prose

yeah retarded anglos comparing a writer with just some good plays and sonets, with the man that actually changed the game forever.

>>16591689

He writes, seething, in the language that was hugely influenced by the bard he denigrates.

>>16591022
According to my uncontestable objective liter-o-meter, Cervantes stands at 960 millidantes and Shakespeare at 965.

Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, of course

Where do I start with Shakespeare?
Likewise where with Cervantes?
pic related

>>16591706
By that metric, Virgil is better than Homer, because Latin was lingua franca for a long time and Homeric Greek was not.

>>16591900

Brainlet comparison. Virgil didn't completely change the Latin language.

Which translation of Don Quixote would you guys recommend?

>>16592023
Grossman.

>>16591882
If so then the evening of June 24 with Shakespeare, although it's not an easy play
I'd say MacBeth myself
With Cervantes DQ, of course

>>16592023
Hay cosas que sólo se pueden experimentar en español

>>16591022
If they had had access to a translation of each other's work, or even been able to read it in the original tongue, what do you believe they would have thought of the other? Would they be respectful and admiring, or would they spurn their respective works?

>>16591987
Neither did Shakespeare, ape. Read Marlowe and Chapman: it is the same language. The KJV was more influential.
The great changes occur before Shakespeare's time.

Shakespeare wasn't Dante.

>>16592244
Shakespeare may have written a play based on Cervantes, in collaboration with Fletcher. He must have either read or at least heard about Cervantes.

Cervantes probably would admire some things about Shakespeare and be put-off by others. His reaction would likely be the same one that the English contemporaries of Shakespeare had (i.e.,"great playwright, but not the greatest") , though perhaps less enthusiastic, because he was acquainted with Lope de Vega already.

>>16591022
Cervantes was a bad writer and an extremely mediocre man, and Don Quixote a boring and stupid piece of shit
>>16591145
Woman

Shakespeare is known across the world and translations of his plays are viewed as high-class literature in every language.

Cervantes isn't.

>>16592303
Cervantes's ideas on theater composition were rather particular for his time. Do you believe that Shakespeare would have been able to appreciate them, or would he just been put off by them?

>>16592458
Well, being the most recognizable author of the current lingua franca will have that effect.

>>16592264
>Shakespeare undoubtedly had a greater influence in changing the English language, thanks to his flexibility with parts of speech, freely using nouns as adjectives or verbs, for example. He is also known to have drawn from other languages such as Greek when it was useful. Although we don't know how many words he coined, Shakespeare is responsible for the first recorded use of around 1,000 words. Among the lasting changes he is partly responsible for is the popular use of "un-" as a prefix to mean "not." Among the words or phrases we know first from Shakespeare are "one fell swoop," "swagger," "odds" (in the betting sense), "full circle," "puke" (vomit), "unfriend" (used as a noun to refer to an enemy). and "hazel" (as a color).

>>16592458
Cervantes is known around the world and translations of his works are viewed high-class literature in every language.
Get your heard out of the ass of the American education system.
An example of a panel of writers from many countries who, went consulted, declared Don Quixote the greatest work of literature:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokklubben_World_Library

You can balk at the idea of a top 100 literary best, certainly this is silly (but again so is this thread), however I challenge you to find a better list compiled by so many authors that still manages to pick a single clear winner.
My point here is not to suck the cock of a particular norwegian book club, but to point than when you ask authors across the entire world, Cervantes isn't necessarily outshone by Shakespeare.

>>16592535
>freely using nouns as adjectives or verbs, for example
So he is the one that invented that nonsense? Fuck him then.

>>16592568
kek. get fucked

>>16592579
Don't kek me anon.

>>16591039
/thead

>>16592535
No fundamental changes whatsoever. Adding words is not a fundamental change. Shakespeare didn't change anything.
You could talk to Marlowe and understand him perfectly, even though he came before Shakespeare, something which you could not do with Chaucer.

Learn Italian and read Dante if you wanna know what it means for a writer to truly change a language.

>>16592458
In what world is Cervantes not considered high class literature in every language lmao are you retarded

>>16591022
Thought it was spenser in the thumbnail.
I don't care, comparing Cervantes and shakespeare seems so pointless.

>>16591022


ESPURIA DICOTOMÍA; UNA VÁLIDA DICOTOMÍA SERÍA: LITERATURA ESPAÑOLA VERSVS LITERATURA BRITÁNICA, O, MÁS GENERALMENTE: LITERATURA HISPÁNICA VERSVS LITERATURA ÁNGLICA —ES POR SUPUESTO QUE LA HISPÁNICA, Y LA ESPAÑOLA, SON POR MUCHO MEJORES QUE LA ÁNGLICA, Y LA BRITÁNICA.

>>16592579
>>16592535
cope and anglo fantasies, as expected

>>16594229
Que Dios te bendiga.

where does all the hate for the English come from
Other Europeans? I don’t think it is the Americans

>>16594496
Spics (latinx and spaniards)

>>16594526
>latinx

To the Spaniards is due the honor of having produced the best novel, as England is entitled to the credit of having achieved the highest rank in drama. As Shakespeare, by the influence of his works, particularly on Germany and France, is to be regarded as the creator of the modern dramatic art, so must we honor in Cervantes the author of the modern novel. Both men are Catholic poets for it was from this religion that they were able to compose the soul with the grand epic of words which I would call a crystalline firmament overarching their thoughts. Just as Hamlet speaks with the gravity of an old man who has one foot in his tomb so does Don Quixote speak in the language of high culture, in his solemn diction well-rounded with poetical excursions, he fairly represents the aristocratic soul.

>>16595131
Hamlet never speaks like he has one foot in the tomb

>>16595131
Cringe

>>16591022
Shakespeare. Cervantes only as a few real personalities, the Bard dozens

>>16591022
Cervantes didn't write poetry, therefore Shakespeare was better.

>>16595633
>Cervantes didn't write poetry
This has to be a joke

>>16595641
Link me to his poetry, faggot.

>>16595131
Nice Heine quote

>>16595644
ty ;3

>>16595643
Use google faggot

>>16595657
Way to prove me right, faggot. Shakespeare prevails.

>>16591065
>x btfo y
>x demolished y
>x refuted y
you have to leave

Spaniards are like the Indians of Europe—socially inept, massive inferiority complex.

>>16594496
It's 75% spics and 25% slavs.

A*glos are the Chinese of Europe—soulless and materially obsessed bugmen.

>>16595714
>the (((eternal anglo))) trying to talk down anyone

>>16595738
>>16595752
Point proven.

>>16595738
English are obviously the japs of Europe, autistic island race that sperged out into an empire for a while and is now declining on its overpopulated gay rock.

>>16595796
Awww the anglo is at a loss for words. Perhaps you need to make some tea and have some muffins

>>16595714
I think this actually fits, given that supposedly indians have the most literary tradition of asia

>>16595644
Did Heine actually say that? What is the source?

Also you anglos should read Dostoyevski's perspective on Don Quixote

>>16594229
Grande Sr. Gonzalez Maestro

>>16595892
Yeah I'm guessing that anon paraphrased or translated a section from his essay on Don Quixote

>this thread

>>16594229
Esto

>>16595131
>England is entitled to the credit of having achieved the highest rank in drama

So, is "Greece" written as "England" now?

>>16596397
Nice catch, absolutely embarrasing missing

Shakespeare wrote for an audience.

Cervantes wrote for himself.

That is THE difference between the two. Both illuminate one’s consciousness.

But I personally prefer Cervantes. Shakespeare is far more interesting to see. Cervantes is better to read, like on a train or just by yourself.

>>16591022
Objectively speaking I am better

>>16591022

If you view Cervantes's portrait from the bottom left (by tilting your screen to shift the perspective) his head assumes a normal size. It's like that skull illusion in Holbein's The Ambassadors.

>>16591862
Horrendous taste in art, my friend

>>16596456
Shakespeare didn't write a five hour play for an audience.

>>16597716
I believe he did. Consider the folloeing:

"[...] the average play lasted three hours [...]"

http://faculty.winthrop.edu/kosterj/engl203/overviews/shakespeareantheatre.asp

>>16591022
they were the same person

>>16598027
Performances of his plays may not even have been that long. The prologue of Romeo and Juliet makes reference to the performance being 2 hours long. There's a good chance the plays performed during his time aren't the complete versions of the plays we read today.