/lit/ - Literature

>>16472193
>Monotheistic civilizations have not built a single thing on their own

>monotheistic civilization relied on philosophy, arts, and skills built by polytheistic civilizations.

prove me wrong cunts

>>16472193
Or what? What you gon' do pussy? Come and make me motherfucker

>>16472224
>polytheist civilizations have not built a single thing on their own
>polytheist civilization relied on philosophy, arts, and skills built by animist civilizations.
prove me wrong cunts.

>>16472193
Hobbes Leviathan Chapter 12

Pagans BTFO

>>16472193
I think the recent resurgence in paganism is mostly due to the accessibly of information. While you'd be burnt or stoned in christian or Islamic kingdoms for reading pagan text, there is little to no such consequence in the west. What do you guys think?

>>16472358
eh disagree. Id say its more to do with the wider trend of post-modernism/reactionnism. same core thing that creates the worst of tradcaths, commies, libertarians, gnostics, buhddists pretty much all of it.

If you read something prompted by your own interest, or if its in oposition to something you oppose, more likely than not you are going to agree with its thesis.

>>16472193
Whats in it for me if I do

>>16472193
Literally doesn't exist anymore you brainlet, not to mention Christianity saved the West from Muslim invasions.

>imagine believing in any way other than pessimistic atheism, malevolent monotheism or fatalistic polytheism
What a bunch of fucking plebs you are

ZEUS WAS BORN FIRST, ZEUS OF THE BRIGHT LIGHTNING IS LAST,
ZEUS THE HEAD, ZEUS THE MIDDLE, AND FROM ZEUS ALL THINGS ARE MADE,
ZEUS WAS BORN MALE, ZEUS BECAME AN IMPERISHABLE BRIDE,
ZEUS THE FOUNDATION OF EARTH AND STARRY SKY,
ZEUS THE KING, ZEUS HIMSELF THE FIRST CAUSE OF EVERYTHING.
ONE POWER, ONE DEITY, GREAT ANCESTOR, RULER OF EVERYTHING,
AND ONE ROYAL BODILY FRAME, IN WHICH ALL THESE THINGS REVOLVE:
FIRE AND WATER AND EARTH AND AITHER AND NIGHT AND DAY
AND METIS THE FIRST ANCESTOR AND MUCH-DELIGHTING EROS;
FOR INSIDE THE MIGHTY BODY OF ZEUS ALL THESE LIE.
INDEED, SEE HIS HEAD AND BEAUTIFUL FACE
AS THE RADIANT SKY, AROUND WHICH HIS GOLDEN HAIRS
OF TWINKLING STARS, VERY BEAUTIFUL, FLOAT,
AND TWO GOLDEN HORNS OF BULLS ON BOTH SIDES,
BOTH RISING AND SETTING, THE PATHS OF THE CELESTIAL GODS,
AND ON OPPOSITE SIDES THE EYES OF BOTH THE SUN AND THE MOON;
AND HIS TRUTHFUL AND ROYAL MIND WAS THE IMPERISHABLE AITHER,
IN WHICH INDEED HE MOVES AROUND AND CONSIDERS EVERYTHING;
AND THERE IS NO VOICE OR SHOUT OR NOISE OR SOUND
THAT ESCAPES THE NOTICE OF THE EARS OF ZEUS THE VERY MIGHTY SON OF KRONOS;
THIS GOD HOLDS AN IMMORTAL HEAD AND THOUGHT.
HIS BODY BLAZING LIKE FIRE, BOUNDLESS, UNDISTURBED,
FEARLESS, STRONG-LIMBED, EXCEEDINGLY MIGHTY WAS FORMED LIKE THIS:
THE SHOULDERS AND CHEST AND WIDE BACK OF THE GOD
WERE THE AIR OF BROAD SWAY, AND WINGS GREW OUT OF HIM,
UPON WHICH EVERYTHING FLEW, AND HIS STOMACH WAS SACRED
EARTH AND THE ALL-MOTHER OF HILLS AND THE LOFTY PEAKS;
AND IN THE MIDDLE HIS BELT WAS THE SWELL OF THE OCEAN HEAVY WITH DEEP ROARING
AND OF THE SEA; AND THE BOTTOMS OF HIS FEET WERE THE ROOTS INSIDE THE EARTH,
BOTH MOULDY TARTARUS AND THE FINAL BOUNDARIES OF THE EARTH.
AND HAVING CONCEALED EVERYTHING IN TURN, HE INTENDED TO BRING IT FORTH
BACK AGAIN INTO THE DELIGHTFUL LIGHT FROM HIS HEART, DOING WONDROUS THINGS.

>>16472358
>recent resurgence
There is not a single time period that I think you could be talking about rn that would match that time period irl.

>>16472358
I think we're just seeing the natural result of Christianity being imposed on a naturally polytheistic people. I'm referring to the West, specifically. Really, mass monotheism has only really been a thing since Gutenberg at earliest, and WWII at latest. That's less than 500 years, and it certainly wasn't strictly enforced until WWII.

Westerners literally cannot NOT be polytheistic. The idea of there being only "one thing" "up there" just doesn't make any sense to us. In Christianity, Westerners have angels and saints and the devil (who is a God, but evil) and the Trinity, so even the "one God" is actually Three (whatever that means). In Islam, Westerners adopt Sufism, which says "okay sure, only God is real, but there's other stuff, it's just illusions :^)". Westerners would sooner cleave God apart and deny the existence of reality than to adopt monotheism.

If Christianity wasn't just an arm of the US State Department, we'd be seeing a resurgence in saint cults and angelology. Under BASED TradCatholicism, we'd have people making animals sacrifices to Michael and Raphael and St. George and Mary, as Europeans had been doing up until very, very recently. The fact that you can now actually worship Zeus just means people take the frankly more sensible route. After all, if what you really desire is to put on a bear skin and offer a goat up to the God of War, why not just literally do it instead of beating around the bush?

>>16472193
No.

>>16472193
Based

restore literature board

>>16472285
Missing a whole ton of connections between Early Dharmic religions and European Paganism

>>16472285
>Scientology
>Religion
Pick one

>>16472492
Ehhh, Really have to disagree. your whole post seems like a lot like waxing on in very specific perpective of things. Reading historical documents there is a pretty consistant implicit acceptence of a monotheistic worldveiw from christian rome up till the modern day. Most people are not engaged in theology, and most of them call upon God as a monolythic apotheosis of being. When you say
>"I'm referring to the West, specifically. Really, mass monotheism has only really been a thing since Gutenberg at earliest"
>natural result of Christianity being imposed on a naturally polytheistic people
This just seems like an arbitrary definition of what is and is not monotheism. you can bend the meaning to imply whatever you want.

>>16472285
Based antworshiper.

>>16472470
>we were saved from embracing one desert religion as opposed to the one we already have with the only difference being one is less jewish than the other

>>16472523
Are you disputing the Holy Word of L. Ron Hubbard (pbuh) and His prophet Tom Cruise (pbuh)?

>>16472470
you cucks destroyed christianity in the east by sacking Constantinopolis

>>16472470
Christianity isn’t even the thoughts of Jesus himself, and should really be called Paulism

>>16472530
Inshala antfriend, son we will expunge the heathen Polytheists who create nothing and only steal, and we will replace it with the natural ant-animism.

>>16472481
Zeus/Sagittarius is Samsara/Change/All Consuming Fire

prove me wrong

>>16472532
Oh yeah anon I'm sure it wouldn't have made a difference at all that Europe would have been mongrelised.

>>16472536
Who are you calling a cuck?

>>16472543
Not at all, no one can deny the actual presence of Jesus Christ in the various recorded words of his.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey_god

>>16472193
iirc nobody has been able to recreate that statue to scale because the way they shaped the ivory is a lost art (kind of like in australia the need to import specific types of welders because the knowledge was never passed down and so few natives know how to do it)

>>16472580
Im pretty sure they said the same thing when christianity was being spread around so to make it more palatable they changed it

>>16472580
yes and his father was named Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera(the jew and former slave) who never married miriam(the sandnigger version of Mary) and hence jesus was also a bastard(some sources claim he adopted him, others claim the jew raped mary)

this is according to jewish and pagan writings

>>16472580
>Not at all, no one can deny the actual presence of Jesus Christ in the various recorded words of his.
They’re not even his own words

>>16472527
For most of Europe's history the populace was illiterate, both theologically and literally. Actual historical testimony showed that the plebs were far more concerned with angels and saints and heroes than with Jesus. Why? Because that's literally what they want.

>>16472591
I also think just getting enough fucking ivory would be a big deal today. Is there even enough to make something of that scale?

>>16472635
Yes and? All the accounts of jesus's early life are suspect. and like every other religion there was 10,00 interpretations until a more centralized authority purged the multiplicity.

>>16472492
>a naturally polytheistic people
Monotheism is the natural evolution of a people. Only devolved peoples (pajeets, mulatto Americans, Africans, etc) are capable of sincere polytheism.
In all other peoples, it is an attempt to escape the consequences of knowing of a judging and protecting Godhead.

>>16472651
>no one can deny the actual presence of Jesus Christ
I provided more evidence of people who wrote about jesus...I guess I should have just asked, yes and?

>>16472710
Yes, im saying there are also sources that say that jesus father was a roman soldeir, and some that say he wasnt a carpenter but something else, others say different things. The whole time period has a lot of different conlficting sources is what I am saying.

Sometimes I just want to go into the woods, find a mighty oak and sacrifice one of the invaders before it, books for this feel?

>>16472648
No. They were interested in angels and sainsts and soforth, but the most common sourced references about the lower class (for example chauser), have them more appeal to either god or jesus. Now, thats not to say they didnt reveire saints, and not to say that that wasnt a thought some people were on about, that was a major point of concern many protestants had going into the 16th century.
Also
>I also think just getting enough fucking ivory would be a big deal today. Is there even enough to make something of that scale?
maybe, but again i think the big thing is the lost craft.

>>16472576
Zeus is the Mixed, the Harmonia, the fulcrum, the sustainer, the suspender of all being.
But it is Ananke, Tefnut, Fate, that spins the wheel, and to seek to escape the wheel and abandon all for your own egotistical salvation, is the greatest sin.


>Mother, highest of the gods, immortal Night, how, tell me this, how must I establish the stout-hearted rule of the immortals?
>Tell me, how can it be that all things are one and yet each is separate?
Night replies:
>Surround all things with unspeakable aither, and in the middle place the sky, and therein the boundless earth, and the sea, and therein all the constellations, which the sky has surrounded. But when you have stretched a firm bond over everything, suspend a golden chain from the aither.

You are right that he's an "All Consuming Fire", which can be witnessed in Semele's wish (which wasn't a bad event for her).
Also:
>There exists a fire (phlogmos) which has occupied a vessel above the heavens - a fire infinitely in motion, a boundless eternity. It is not within the grasp of the blessed Gods, unless the mighty Father should plan His purposes so that He Himself might be looked upon: in that place the ether does not bear the radiant stars; nor is the luminous moon raised up there. No God meets Him the Father, who is fire on His path, nor am I myself solar Apollo spread out so far as to reach Him, though I whirl through the ether in company with my light-rays. God is fire, a vast channel moving in a spinning motion with a whirring sound. But if someone touched that ethereal fire, he would not feel fear in his heart, for it has not power to burn. Through an unceasing care that derives from God Himself, eternity mingles with eternities. Self-begotten, untaught, without a mother, unshakeable, nameless, many-named, and dwelling in fire - that is God; we are messengers (angeloi), only a small part of God.”

>>16472676
>everyone is SECRETLY a DEVOUT MUSLIM! they're only PRETENDING to be otherwise, because they HATE ALLAH!
lol

>>16472774
My point isn't that didn't care about God or Jesus, or view them as an intercessor of last resort, but rather that the mode of religious activity that they engaged in was far closer to actual, literal polytheism than the idealized monotheism of the Church Fathers, or of Islam, or Judaism. If someone is offering rabbits to St. George, or praying to Mary, or singing praises to St. Olaf, or whatever, all the while expecting in-this-life physical boons from doing so, it is fair to say they are engaging in polytheistic behavior. They literally believe that their are multiple beings that can be invoked "up in the sky" in order to gain material and spiritual benefits. Just tacking "Jesus" onto the list of things you pray to doesn't make you a monotheist.

When did you guys realize that monotheists have never actually engaged with polytheists? Christians just decreed that all the polytheists philosophers that they liked were proto-Christians and then they went on to debate the polytheist equivalents of that Christian grandma from Arkansas that thinks Jesus appeared in her piece of toast.

Even muh idolatry was always just empty rhetoric. "Idolatry" only becomes idolatry because it is non-Christian. There is nothing wrong with idolatry in itself, except the practitioner not being Christian. Put a golden hat on a piece of stone that have been made to look like a human, prostrate, incense and pray to it and you're an idolater, except if you've happened to have named the piece of stone Mary.

Christianity won not through argument and truth, but by subverting and converting the lowest in society.

Introduction of the dogma of creatio ex nihilo is the worst mistake to happen to the western religious thinking. Worldview which derives values from transcendental origin, faced with the scientific naturalism is the main reason for degeneracy and the collapse of moral values, and will become it's downfall unless there is a pagan restoration in some form, which accepts nature as sacred and foundational basis for values.

>>16472900
another issue is this:
>Now why did he who framed this whole universe of becoming frame it? Let us state the reason why: He was good, and one who is good can never become jealous of anything. And so, being free of jealousy, he wanted everything to become as much like himself as was possible.

Abrahamic think they're unique by implying (falsely) that they're the only one ones who believe in a first cause, but this is present in all religions.
The difference is that the Abrahamic god is jealous and refuses to share worship, even though al things supposedly (according to them) are his image and that he's immanent in all things, to worship and venerate two distinct things is not to make them equal. All praise ultimately praises the Father.

>>16472890
>Christianity won not through argument and truth, but by subverting and converting the lowest in society.
Don't people know the early converts were all slaves, peasants, and women? I'd be surprised if someone thought that rational argument is what made Europe Christian.

personally I feel like polytheism makes the least sense and seems to open up more questions than it answers

>>16472635
>listening to the talmud that literally finds any excuse they can to call Jesus a bastard
You're retarded.

>>16472643
The similarity of words in the non-canonical descriptions provide too much evidence.

>>16472962
Huh?

>>16473028
>The similarity of words in the non-canonical descriptions provide too much evidence.
Even if we accept that, which we don’t have to, many of the teachings of Jesus and the religious themes of the story of Jesus weren’t even original. I honestly can’t think of a single aspect of the Gospel story that is in any way entirely new, it’s mostly just a new combination of religious ideas that already existed for centuries

>>16473015
That is probably because you think polytheists ever denied a first principle.

>>16472193
do it yourself, lazy ass

>>16473106
>honestly thinking that polytheism started with Pythagoras, Plato or Aristotle
God you’re stupid