/lit/ - Literature

>>16464028
normalfags can into religion just fine. They pray to God to help them, they participate in little normalfriend religious rituals, they get their sense of morality and truth from some normalfriend religious authority, etc.

>>16464043
>implying

Almost every normalfag is a hedonistic nihilist.

>>16464028
stupid question. *only* "normalfags" are into religion and theology.

>>16464068
Anyone that says otherwise is a flat out fucking liar with little to no interaction with people. Never has there been a time in history where it's filled with such rot like now

>>16464119
you know this is 4chan right?
how do squealing prissy blowhards like you end up here?

>>16464028
Didnt even bother to use a new image.

>>16464028
Go outside and you'll find plenty of godfags. Maybe you should stop shitposting here from your mom's basement

>>16464028
Because they got shit to do. Religion is for senior citizens and homemakers.

>>16464119
>everyone is decadent and horrible
(You) are not excluded from this, no matter how much of a philosopher you think you are. Merely apeing the opinions of dead ascetics will get you nowhere. You must return to monke

>>16464028
They do, it's just that their religion is secular modern judaism they inherit from TV and other mainstream media platforms.
>Holocaust
>WW2
>9/11
>Marvel capeshit
Etc. all part of their jewbeard mythology

>>16464028
It's a bell curve

>>16464068
And? They might understand that stuff better than you, they just weren't convinced. Why do religious people make same threads again and again? is it some type of ritual?

>>16464043
>>16464082
>>16464324
>>16464337
Going to a rock concert "church" and asking thin air for a new boat isn't religion and it's certainly not theology. There are precisely 0 normalfags who are actually into the topics above, you won't find a single normalfag megachurch-goer who can hold a conversation for any amount of time over the metaphysical aspects of the divine.

>>16464068
This, their transparent "religious/spiritual beliefs" are just a counterweight to the totality of their hedonism.

>>16464409
Both Christianity and Islam are such that peasants can practice them, and in fact are maybe better suited to it than the rich and educated, who get off on their own cleverness and knowledge.

>>16464420
>i know nothing about religion: the post

Theology is quite literally the reason why I could never be religious. Especially the history and origins of all the various theological concepts used by contemporary religion

>>16464426
The basic aspects of practicing both religions are not remotely intellectual, they're both about having faith in certain truths and obeying commandments about a way to live. I have no idea why you've posted fedora Nietzsche at me either.

>>16464432
Why?

>>16464449
>i know nothing about religion: the sequel

>>16464466
Do you think an illiterate peasant who prayed every day to God, believed Christ was divine, went to church and heard bible passages, and tried to follow the rules of the religion wasn't a Christian? He's much more of a Christian than some philosopher creating systems out of reason and forcing Christianity into them.

>>16464432
As compared to? Have you ever tried to trace the development of scientific theories? Everything Darwin proposed has been found to be incorrect, as has almost all antique science. Rather, all we keep are certain suggestions of where to look. For generations, researchers have been looking for the primordial life according to evolution, and yet it only grows increasingly ellusive, as the list of necessary conditions grows. Now, some statisticians are suggesting that the probability of random evolution requires more time than has existed in the universe. There is not a single discipline of material science which rests on firm foundation in its theoretical underpinnings. As soon as one departs from engineering, one enters a world of ever changing hypothesis. Of course, we still learn a lot this way, as demonstrated by those practical developments of technology, but the rate of return compared to the investment of resources is diminishing quickly.

>>16464486
These modern trads simply can't believe. They seek to return to some long dead Catholic culture but they can't, they're too modern for it. So they all proceed to become lay priests and theologians instead. This sort of Catholicism probably not even being older than 50 years old, so much for muh tradition.

They all lack authenticity.

>>16464494
This tbqh. There is also a lot of evidence lately that points towards process structuralism.

>>16464028
I can't wait for religion to go extinct among normies and the only religious people left are reactionary weirdos like you.

>>16464409
Yes, average church goer does not read theology, some of them don't even read the bible. That is the easy way to pick out people who larp in the internet, they don't practice their religion, even if they fill their head full of theology and philosophy. Church services are not theological class, its partaking/performing rites and sacraments. Which is arguably more important than all the theological knowledge in the world when it comes to the salvation.

>>16464514
>blocks your path
But seriously, Catholic culture is not dead. It's the largest christian "denomination" in the world (over 1 billion catholics).

>>16464514
There's a great quote from Schopey in WWR about how all the 19th century finishing efforts on Gothic churches was an 'embalming' of Christianity by people who didn't believe in it.

>>16464204
You know you whine like a little fucking bitch right?
How do effetes like you end up here and think you're enlightened or cultured or intellectual enough to post on this board?

>>16464521
In the grim dark future the world will be ruled by Latter-Day Saints and Islam

Because theology isn’t for “normies” it’s for priests in ivory towers talking about angels dancing on thimbles. Normies go to church. Normies hate their parents for taking them to church. Who the fuck do you think is reading this Thomas Aquinas level shit OP? How are you autistic to have to ask this question without just blatantly looking out your window to see where society is right now.

Your cool little reactionary hobby is only interesting to the catholic brothers who just want to grope you and talk about the game. What the actual fuck. If you wanted to actually talk theology and teleology you’d have made a thread about it. Instead you make this shitty autistic bait to make yourself feel superior, and isn’t that some sort of fucking sin in itself? Oh wait this is a bait thread, hypocrisy doesn’t matter.

Fuck you OP. I’m seething.

>>16464426
>holy book literally written in retard pidgin greek
>not for peasants
Sorry anon, he may not be right about islam, but he is definitely right about christianity. It is explicitly a religion for slaves and degenerates.

>atheists be like "bro yo're reactionary, we're in peak civilization. I'm so enlightened to your nonsense"
But in reality

>>16464532
It's only so large because the locus of Christianity as a slave revolt religion is transitioning from the infertile and aristocratic global north to the fecund and subjugated global south, a process five hundred years in the making since 1492.

>>16464556
Islam is the same as Christianity in terms of proselytizing to anyone and making it possible for uneducated peasants to follow along with the necessary rules.

>>16464532
>Leave Newman to me.

>>16464455
Almost everything in, for example, the Bible has been demonstrably influenced by earlier religious themes, and I have no reason to believe that this is any different with any other religious text or practice. Let’s look at the Bible
>the idea of a god
Several tens of thousands of years old
>the idea of sacred places
Also tens of thousands of years old, European caves and Göbekli Tepe are good examples of this
>the idea of texts as a way to express meaning
Comes from Sumeria, the Epic of Gilgamesh is the earliest known example and deals with the existential problem of death
>the idea of sin
Also from Mesopotamia, originally meant the divine punishment for performing the sacrificial rituals in an incorrect fashion
>the idea of a divine reward and life after death
Initially reserved for Egyptian kings. Under the influence of the Egyptians, the ritual concept of sin begins to shift towards a more moral concept
>the idea of good and evil
This is a pretty big one, and is first found in Persia, under the influence of Zoroaster. He was the first one that we know of to conceptualize the world as a battlefield between good and evil, where good would eventually win. Also, the idea of the divine reward is further moralized, with an eventual resurrection (after the third and final saoshyant, ‘one who will be strong’, emerges and perfects the world, after which all the resurrected dead receive a final judgment and an eternal reward or punishment.

This is just a few of the earlier religious themes, but the ones by Zoroaster were particularly significant and influential. Not only did the Zoroastrian view of world history influence Judaism and Christianity (and thus Islam), it also had a significant impact on Greek philosophy, such as on Pythagoras, Plato, who mentions Zoroaster in the Republic, and Aristotle, who mentions the Persian magi in his Metaphysics. Heraclitus viewed fire as the symbol of universal order, while Zoroastrians, whose primary god of asha, or order, Ahura Mazda, is worshipped through fire.

There have also been fascinating studies by scholars like Johannes de Moor on the story of the Garden of Eden, which appears to be a mixture of religious themes from Ugarit, Mesopotamia, Persia, Egypt and Canaän. This is from a book called Adam, Eve and the Devil. However, much of this points towards very earthly origins of the Bible and all the theology that is derived from it. A good example of this would be Thomas Aquinas, whose teleology is developed from Christianity and Aristotle, but I don’t think Aquinas was aware of the fact that he was doing little more, both in the case of Christianity and Aristotle, than repeating two versions of the earlier world history first developed by Zoroaster, where history inevitably moves from evil to good, after a confrontation between the two

>>16464589
And yet Islamic scholars have rigor exceeding christian cope doctrines. Better yet, it stamps out normalfag tier idolatry, which is the reason catholicucks are the number one denomination. Face it, Islam is for the elite, and is the logical conclusion of the spread of abrahamic faith among the goyim.

>>16464648
Islam and christianity are very comparable. Tiny portion of theologians creating sophisticated systems, gigantic masses of plebs just believing in the gist of it.

You obviously have some kind of hangup about these religions in general and are not seeing the situation that clearly.

>>16464409
>let me tell you about my special insight that only i in the entire world have
oh fuck off you massive bellend
>>16464544
this board is not enlightenend, cultured or intellectual, and neither are you
>>16464551
not if the chinese have anything to do with it

>>16464532
the majority of catholics live in second world countries like brazil, mexico, phillipines, usa and various african countries
modern catholic culture is not what you imagine

>>16464647
I like to think of theology and past religions as trying to find the truth of the matter. It's just that Christianity is the perfection of theology and truth. A lot of isolated tribes that were studied by anthropologists believed in some kind of monotheistic deity opposed to polytheism showing that monotheism is almost like a default position.
You don't have to watch this but I think it explains what I'm talking about here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za260DIsgzQ&t=1598s

A lot of your arguments I had trouble with too, but I think it really comes down to analyzing the specific truths that the religion presents and see if it lines up.
Fulton Sheen actually has a good video on this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA6aIhHzXkw&t=668s

Also your comments on Aquinas getting influence from Aristotle. I don't really see how this is in any way taking away from Aquinas or Christian theology. Religion and Christianity always incorporated philosophy within the spiritual life, it's just up until recently that we have divided the religious aspect from the philosophical or theological.

>>16464705
That is why we are trying to bring it back into western culture :)

>>16464556
>muh slaves and degenerates
Post physique and bank balance, faggot. You're a degenerate slave yourself, born and bred, who thinks he can bootstrap himself out of his God-given form by live-action role-playing as something other than what you are.

>>16464732
>we
speak for yourself anon
there's enough kiddy fiddlers with all the fucking muslims around here without bringing more catholic priests back

>>16464762
Reminder that there are more pedophile teachers on average in public schools.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/do-the-right-thing/201808/separating-facts-about-clergy-abuse-fiction

>The best available data reports that 4 percent of Catholic priests sexually violated a minor child during the last half of the 20th century with the peak level of abuse being in the 1970s and dropping off dramatically by the early 1980s.

>Putting clergy abuse in context, research from the US Department of Education found that about 5-7 percent of public school teachers engaged in similar sexually abusive behavior with their students during a similar time frame.

>>16464788
>Reminder that there are more pedophile teachers on average in public schools.
Public teachers do not make any claims to moral authority or being Gods ordained servants on earth etc.

The fact that you have to point to other groups in society, saying "we're not as bad as them though!" really shows what a depraved religious institution Catholicism is.

>>16464028
You might be surprised anon. When I started working in my industry (video games) I assumed everyone was an atheoid. But I found out that more people are deeper than you think.

>>16464873
It shows it's not primarily a Catholic problem. Read the whole article.

>>16464873
>Public teachers do not make any claims to moral authority
They do though, they're unironically more sanctimonious than religious people

>>16464710
>It's just that Christianity is the perfection of theology and truth.
If that’s the case, why does Christianity get lots of factual and moral matters completely wrong then? Christianity didn’t give us either the theory of evolution or the abolishment of slavery. If you say that both of those were inspired by Christianity, then I could just as easily say that Christianity was in fact inspired by earlier religions, and that therefore those earlier religions deserve the credit

>>16464895
>the abolishment of slavery
>good
>evolutionary theory
>necessary for human moral completion
You embarrass yourself.

>>16464895
>God's law
>it doesn't confine to the ultramodernized neoliberal expectation of what goodness is so it's not Truly Moral(TM)
Go fuck yourself with something sharp, pal.

>>16464905
>>16464912
I accept both of your defeats, thank you

>>16464916
I'm behind both posts, and your rationale for "defeat" is as retarded as everything else you believe, you gay little hedonist.

>>16464895
>theory of evolution or the abolishment of slavery.
Christianity does not claim to be for against or for evolution. The Bible is not a scientific textbook, it is a spiritual text. As for the slavery accusation, you should know that the abolitionist movement in the United States pointed towards the Bible for the justification of their cause.

Frederick Douglass was one such case,
>Douglass was mentored by Rev. Charles Lawson, and, early in his activism, he often included biblical allusions and religious metaphors in his speeches. Although a believer, he strongly criticized religious hypocrisy[91] and accused slaveholders of wickedness, lack of morality, and failure to follow the Golden Rule. In this sense, Douglass distinguished between the "Christianity of Christ" and the "Christianity of America" and considered religious slaveholders and clergymen who defended slavery as the most brutal, sinful, and cynical of all who represented "wolves in sheep's clothing".[92][93]

>>16464926
>As for the slavery accusation, you should know that the abolitionist movement in the United States pointed towards the Bible for the justification of their cause.
I literally just explained in the post you’re responding to why that’s irrelevant.

>>16464925
In that case, tell me about a major Christian denomination that actively promotes and pushes for reinstating slavery. It’s God’s law, after all

>>16464951
It's man's law, you retard, and one which if practiced in a certain way has no bearing on God's teachings. If you'd read the Bible you wouldn't be spitting up these retarded arguments.

Any person can become a Saint, any person can become a Theologian. If you embrace Christ any man can become these things.

>>16464951
>I literally just explained in the post you’re responding to why that’s irrelevant.

Except in the earlier post about Christianity being the perfection of theological and philosophical truth I explained that Christianity embodied the fullness of truth. Jesus' redemption was completely new and not seen before. Look at Celsus who gawks at the notion that a God would die so shamefully as Jesus. Christianity's theological and philosophical influences from Greek Philosophy, (I would argue zoroaster didn't influence Christianity) ,doesn't take away from its revolutionary impact on the world.

>>16464951
i bet there are a few mormons who still believe in the curse of ham

>>16464689
Not when low effort fucking trash like you stops in and sucks the fucking life right out of the board

>>16465019
>posts yet another fucking religion thread
>accuses others of killing the board
you anon are a dolt

>>16465023
Yeah you are the fucking cancer killing the board. Religion will always have a place on here. Go back to your fucking censored leftist shit hole if the mention of God Almighty makes you seethe like an insolent effete

>>16464028
>hey that premarital sex you're having is a sin
>that marijuana is also sinful
>and your excessive alcohol drinking
>"What, you're saying that I'm doing something wrong?? Fuck you, buddy."
That's why

>>16465026
lol christians are the most bitter cunts in the world

>>16464978
>It's man's law
Which apparently trumps God’s law, since we generally don’t consider slavery moral anymore

>>16465001
>I would argue zoroaster didn't influence Christianity
You could, but you’d be demonstrably wrong. The New Testament doesn’t refer to the final desired end state of history as a return to the Hebrew ‘garden’, but specifically uses the Greek word of ‘paradise’, as word the Greeks got from the Persians

>>16464884
Yeah it is a human problem. But if grace was real and if Catholicism truly was beneficial to virtue then one could imagine the Catholic Church having similar pederasty sexual abuse rates as on offshore oil rigs or whatever.

>>16465001
Dionysus had died and been dismembered before Christ, but this was more of a mystery religion than the broad based spread of Christianity among lower classes.

>>16465077
There are always going to be bad people who slip into positions of power. The Roman Empire was corrupt and Godless, but Jesus still said to respect their laws. You really can't blame Catholicism for a few priests being bad. It is, as whole, still a massive benefit to society.

>>16464028
The spirit (here used in a loose sense) of anti-Tradition which dominates modern man

>>16464398
Basado

>>16464398
Kek. I feel like this is true for a lot of things. Cleetus knows that it's wrong, but doesn't know why

>>16464529
Midwit shit, if you don't read the bible then any opinion you have on Christianity is utterly irrelevant.

>>16465077
The pedo priests reject God's grace. They have free will anon.

>>16465364
the vast majority of christians who have ever lived have not read the bible in its entirety

>>16465387
>implying they're Christians

Most people are religious still, idk where you come from where "normalfags" aren't at least self-identifying as some form of vague theist or deist.
>>>>but people are so hedonistic now
Can you larpers stop pretending there was this golden age of heaven on Earth where everyone went to mass with their blonde trad-wife, holy shit.

Also God is dead bro sorry not sorry, read a book.

>>16464647
>Academics will never understand the poetic weight of Jesus carrying the burden of the cross on his back

>>16464043
Real religious people don't pray for temporal goods or favors. God often curse such self described religious people and condemns them to hell. Those most assured of their salvation are the least likely to obtain it according to St. Basil. The number of the faithful are a minority, even of church goers and even clergy.

>>16465458
brehs... ;_;

>>16465495
I find it odd that anon neglects to mention one of the most important themes in Christianity which is self-sacrifice.

>>16465458
You mean the poetic weight that Paul added to it later on, despite the fact that crucifixion wasn’t the penalty for blasphemy, but for rebellion?

>>16465423
>Most people are religious still
Wrong. Playing pretend and thinking that you and all your friends and family deserve eternal paradise is a cope for their own wickedness which is why St. Thomas defined presumption as a horrible evil.

>>16465525
He died for your sins anon.

>>16465515
You do know that Jesus wasn’t the inventor of self-sacrifice, right? Human sacrifice had been around for ages, as had been dying for something bigger than yourself, which Socrates did centuries before Jesus

>>16465529
Nice shifting goalposts retard

>>16465554
>he unironically thinks it's about who did it first and not who did it best

>>16465423
The god of monotheism, as the byproduct of a universalist despotic world-empire, is dead, but among the little people are widespread beliefs in supranatural continuities, that their ancestors and relatives are guardian angels, that the firmament influences the earth, that you can be reincarnated, that there is some kind of "bad luck" you can have but ward off using appropriate techniques and behaviors, that (You) will get what is coming to you. All these little beliefs have survived the sinking of God and have greater memetic fitness.

>>16465559
It isn't. Religion and theology are practiced by very few. If you're look for herd morality, that's applicable to even atheists.

>>16465534
That wasn’t even early Christianity’s opinion. All of that was added on later by Paul and his minions, and the earliest Christians probably didn’t agree with him at all. It’s also highly debatable whether Jesus saw his own death like this, because all we have today is Paul’s version of the events. Jesus didn’t write anything down about why he did what he did, so what you’re saying is just a wild random guess

>>16464028
Why can't bible thumpers understand philosophy from the 18th century and on?

>looking to theology for religion
>not music
https://youtu.be/P21qlB0K-Bs

>>16465594
Because most of it is garbage, and Nietzsche doesn't provide any sort of satisfying conclusion. Next?

>>16465569
You use philosophy to justify religion, not the other way around. That tells me that Socrates’ sacrifice was probably more important

>>16465608
>thinking these niggas didn't make music for God.

>>16465617
>I don't understand any of it but it's garbage
Alright, faggot. Back to your dusty old desert cult nonsense.

>>16465625
My point is you experience God, not read the history behind it.

>>16465620
>That tells me that Socrates’ sacrifice was probably more important
Socrates died to prove a point. Jesus died because of his ultimate virtue. That's a huge difference.

>>16465630
German idealists are an actual waste of time, yet it's the biggest meme expressed on this board.

It's really not easy being the most intelligent person in every single thread. Why do so many people have no understanding of religion?

>>16465663
You're an uneducated old world theist so your opinion is completely, 100% irrelevant.

>>16465674
>he's an overeducated autist that read past Aquinas

>>16465654
>Jesus died because of his ultimate virtue.
Again, we don’t know this. We have no idea what his intentions were, not as good as we know the intentions of Socrates. I also find it very doubtful that before Jesus, no one on the planet knew what self-sacrifice was, and didn’t appeal to it on, say, the battlefield

religion is the most normalfag thing there is

>>16465690
>bro just ignore everything science has discovered and everything the smartest minds have realized thanks to science for the last 800 years
Theists are the real degenerates, every single one of them.

>>16464082
You just outed yourself as a normal fag
Theology is practically unavoidable if you decide to study philosophy, which you clearly have not

Don’t be upset about this, it’s okay to be a normal fag

>>16465663
>gets filtered by The Critique
>gets filtered by the German idealists
Is there any hope for Abrahamic monotheism in the current year?

>>16465693
>Again, we don’t know this. We have no idea what his intentions were
We know what his intentions were, he sacrificed himself for the sake of alleviating mankind's sins, you're just being pedantic at this point.
>not as good as we know the intentions of Socrates.
Do we really? We merely have Plato's anecdotes and interpretations.
>I also find it very doubtful that before Jesus, no one on the planet knew what self-sacrifice was, and didn’t appeal to it on, say, the battlefield
However Jesus was truly a man without sin in every sense of the word, and his sacrifice was the noblest of all (forgiving ALL of mankind).

>>16465243
Many parts of what has become "common sense" actually has an evolutionary benefit which causes them to persist. It's why tribalism always outperforms individualism, even when the tribalists are made up of cavemen

>>16465488
>no true scotsman

>>16465736
Imagine being a mere mortal and thinking you understand God's bigger plan

>>16465738
Nature will kill the individual to save the species whenever she is given a choice. She will kill the tribe too if needed.

>>16465755
Yet it's made clear to us Jesus's sacrifice was one down out of love.

>>16465581
There is very good historical evidence for the resurrection of Jesus imo.

>>16465710
Why are you bringing up scientists now? The conversation was about philosophy. My opinions on science are irrelevant to this conversation.

>>16465594
Not christian but its true a lot of them are shite mate

>>16465364
>>16465402
>no true scotsman
So medieval peasants who couldn't buy or even read the bible weren't Christians? Woe to those that were ''Christians'' before bible was even compiled, they weren't so truly, and are suffering in hell.

>>16465729
>Is there any hope for Abrahamic monotheism in the current year?
Yes, by not being a masturbatory series of obfuscated wordplay to one up each other.

Just when one fucking tripfag wasnt enough we have another one whos even more annoying than the last

>>16465807
Science is directly related to philosophy and vice versa. They shape one another. If you can't understand philosophy from the 18th century and on, you can't understand science from the 18th century and on either.

>>16465831
No there's a clear difference, the average medieval peasant is by default to assumed to live in a Christian culture and possess Christian values. Amerifats are neither of this yet claim to be blue-blooded Christians

>>16465736
>you're just being pedantic at this point.
No, I’m just aware of the established early history of your religion, which you apparently aren’t. Everything you’ve just mentioned was added later by Paul.
>his sacrifice was the noblest of all
That’s pretty debatable. I don’t think it’s noble at all to just let yourself be betrayed and murdered, to forgive some sin, which appears to have had very little effect on the world, since even in the most Christian parts of it, the suffering still continues. I would argue that the inventors of martyrdom in your religious tradition, the Maccabees, were far more noble, since they died in a war against Antiochus, who actually oppressed them. Their form of self-sacrifice at least had a clear purpose, whereas Jesus’ sacrifice appears to be little more than Paul’s weird rationalization to explain the failure of Jesus’ mission after the fact. It was this rationalization that became his religion, and ironically the real, historical Jesus, along with his true motives, were buried under it and are now gone forever

>>16465710
Bro just ignore all those religious scientist and smartest minds who discovered/realized everything for the last 800 years
>Newton was religious? Einstein was religious? Every single astronaut/cosmonaut that has been to the ISS is religious?
>okay, fuck scientist, I only like atheist doctrines like gender is fake, race is fake, genetics are fake, statistics are racist

>>16465850
Not him but, like I said in one of my posts above, there is very good evidence in modern times for process structuralism in evolution.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H0yoBiBM5s&t=1936s

>>16465801
Jesus’ biased followers can’t even get their own story straight. It starts with just a simple empty tomb in Mark, and then gets increasingly more outlandish as time goes by. Also, none of these stories have ever been corroborated by anyone outside of Jesus’ followers. It would be like accepting the divinity and resurrection of Tom Cruise after his death based on the stories and eyewitness accounts of a bunch of Scientologists. Imagine they had four completely different versions of these events, four stories that, as time went by, got increasingly more ridiculous and were never actually corroborated by accounts of non-scientologists. Would you believe them?

>>16465841
Really makes you wonder about regulative cyclical processes governing the phenomenal universe

>>16465904
What if the Tom Cruisers came to occupy much of our provincial armies, due to widespread conscription, such that the reigning warlord decided to cynically accept their faith as the one true religion to unite his imperium?

>>16465864
>No, I’m just aware of the established early history of your religion, which you apparently aren’t. Everything you’ve just mentioned was added later by Paul.
Does not refute me in any single shape or form.
>That’s pretty debatable. I don’t think it’s noble at all to just let yourself be betrayed and murdered, to forgive some sin, which appears to have had very little effect on the world, since even in the most Christian parts of it, the suffering still continues.
It's noble because Jesus experienced all of life's suffering yet there was still nothing but an overwhelming love in his heart. It is a sublime virtue found not in peace, but in great distress. This went completely over your head, and I can safely disregard anything else you have to say from this point onwards. Stick to the textbooks.

>>16465904
What is your opinion on 2 women finding the tomb empty? People say that the apostles sought to tell the truth since the word of women back then was incredibly untrustworthy (Josephus commented on this).

>>16465934
When someone talks about theology I think of it as the nature of god(whatever he/it may be), there are hundreds of theories about the divine throughout history that hold more water than the three abrahamic myths combined

There are dozens that exist before any abrahamic non sense

Christianity is normalfag theology

>>16465984
You are arrogant, you are blinded by hubris and intellectualism. The natures of spirituality is merely nothing but a game to you.

>>16465988
Not him, but the highest point of spirituality is when everything becomes mere game.

>>16465984
>There are dozens that exist before any abrahamic non sense

Lol that's like saying since there hundreds of scientific theories throughout history that have been proven wrong and proven right we can't take any one of them to be true. Hold science to the same standard then.

>>16464028
>>16464068
>>16464082
>everyone that I don’t like is a normalfag

>>16465851
>medieval peasants were culturally christians
>america is not culturally christian
What are you smoking? You do know that there were instances when peasants sacrificed animals for saints? They mostly just replaced their old gods with name of the saints. While Christian puritan roots are very visible to any European who looks at American culture.
Again, for most practicing Christians, its not the depth of knowledge about theology, its a way of life. The obsession you see in here about philosophy and theology can't be found in the churches, mainly because people who go into the church have faith that larpers lack.

>>16464028
You say it as if it were a problem. They are not supposed to. It's a thing for the clergy. Normies are supposed to get their theological info from the clergy, who are the ones that indeed go in the deep debates.

That we have so many laymen getting into theological studies, particularly on the internet, where they do so disordely, is actually a symptom of a problem and another aspect of the crisis in the church.

>>16464028
>Christ-Chan
an idol raised for superficial larpers that only claim religion for a sense of superiority

>>16464529
>even if they fill their head full of theology and philosophy. Church services are not theological class, its partaking/performing rites and sacraments. Which is arguably more important than all the theological knowledge in the world when it comes to the salvation.
this kind of thinking is why western religion is fucking soulless

>>16466002
>>america is not culturally christian
It most certainly isn't, and if it was it's not anymore. It's about consuming, making money, and getting fat.

>>16465997
There's plenty of theories about the divine that came after Christianity and Islam too.

>>16466010
It's the same kind of people that believes the Crusades were "Christian" in nature.

>>16466000
Everyone OP doesn't like is a fren

>>16465839
Are you fucking kidding me? Saying this with the absolute state of sectarian American Christianity?

>>16466005
>it’s another Catholics are anti-intellectual, superficial, and ritualistic to no end episode

The concept of a dualistic god is embarrassing at this point. Any culture with a respect for the pursuit of knowledge moved on to idealist, non-dual, self inquiry based theological/philosophical practices but the west remains pitifully behind on this matter and thus religion is now a joke on this side of the world

>>16466047
American Christianity is a mix of therapeutic deism and idpol screeching.

>>16465988
Spirit is also a pre abrahamic invention, both in idea and name, it is your religion that stopped the inquiry into the truth of it

(And the truth is the only reason to study theology)

You come along with your myth and declare it as a fact of life and ended the evolution of the idea of soul, spirit, god etc

>>16465997
I mean the fact it started with one idea and grew into hundreds showed there was no stagnation in the search for truth

Abrahamic religions ruled with an iron fist ending it all

>>16466018
You know what... You convinced me. Most soulful christian knows the bible by heart and never goes to the church. So most soul can be found from atheist with hateboner for Christianity, he knows theology and bible very well.
>>16466023
Yes, America is very Jewed. Rest I've heard before. Rant typical in protestant cultures ''I'm last true Christian around'', priests are wasting time doing Eucharist and other stuff, while they should be giving a lectures about trinity.

>>16466192
>priests are wasting time doing Eucharist and other stuff, while they should be giving a lectures about trinity.
In the early days of Christianity the early Church Fathers would not understand the divide between theology and spiritual religiosity that we see today. For them to find the truth of God's nature was religious and WAS spiritual. In my opinion I don't think we should try to emulate this divide anymore, I think we SHOULD emulate the Church Fathers, and to emulate them means to worship God without division of philosophical/theological and religious thought.

>>16466232
Dead wrong. /lit/ is dying.

>>16466192
The trinity also a pagan idea, the one, spirit, and soul- Plotinus

Once Augustine converted to Christianity and adopted his idea and shut down the very school the idea came from it has stagnated for 3000 years

>>16466232
Huh

>>16464028
>why can't normalfags...
Because they don't share your particular interests. That's why you consider them "normalfags." If they did care about religion, then you would probably not consider them "normalfags." You just asked why a term had its definition.

>>16466265
The church still teaches it’s followers of a platonic god, the ‘one’ from Parmenides and the idea of it being all good from the republic, he spirit being an Aristotelian god, and the soul being a stoic god

Kek

>>16466244
explain

>>16466267
Studying theology used to be the same as being Christian and religious.

>>16464689
Wait till the next Jihad Chinese women and fem-boys will all go to the harem

literalist minds need to compartmentalise information because they cannot think symbolically or have thoughts that are "too large"- they can never understand a bigger picture but just little soundbites. 99% of atheists you see on this board are this breed of midwit

>>16465529
>which is why St. Thomas defined presumption as a horrible evil

Quick rundown?

>>16466000
Everyone is a NPC unless they display self awareness and divergent thought.

>>16464544
>enlightened
>cultured
>intellectual
100% bro, I totes agree! 4channel is the bestest smartest website of them all haha!

>>16465608
Bach was extremely religious, though

>>16464028
religion is the ultimate normalfagotry. the vast majority just inherit it from their parents/social group and unthinkingly accept it whole cloth. we cannot access information about the true origin of the universe/time/matter itself, therefore all theology is purely make believe and psychological projection

>>16464028
Kys sage