/lit/ - Literature

Isn't tik tok just short dance videos? How exactly is there literary discussion in such a place?

>>16460305
Seconding this question

>>16460305
By writing it on the screen

>>16460294
They should have cast Agamemnon better in the movie Troy. In the Iliad he was described as standing a full head over all the other men, chest bigger than two barrels, muscles bulging out of his shirt.

>>16460337
Freshman /lit/ intro courses filtering pseuds

>>16460294
Probably because he used his own daughter as a human sacrifice.

>>16460294
Probably they just watched that Brad Pitt film where Agamemnon and Menelaus are the villains.

>>16460431
According to the comments, they imply to be classics students

>>16460441
It's just hoes being hoes then. I bet they think Clytaemnestra was in the right.

>>16460465
They always forget that Clytemnestra and Aegisthus also murdered Cassandra.

>>16460337
I'm 23 and I feel very old right now...

>>16460294
I would argue there's no reason to dislike Agamemnon anymore than the other heroes by modern standards. I imagine they dislike him because he sacrificed his daughter, but that was to lift a punishment by Artemis, and wronged Achilles. However, all of the other heroes sack Troy and murder, rape, and/or enslave the Trojans.

>>16460337
>women reading and hating books mentioned in their drivel The Secrete History
>make it know they’re morons
Topkek

>>16460441
>>16460337
Are women even human?

>>16460342
agamemnon was described as looking lordly, but he was subpar physically against Achilles; Achilles calls him dog-faced multiple times

so strong, big guy, but not a looker. brian blessed sort.

>>16460598
apparently most of the traditions say that the daughter was switched out with a crane or some other animal, so technically he's not even guilty of that (though Clytem. did not know this)

>>16460620
oh, so that's what this "dark academia" shit is. read the classics once and talk about it like harry potter.

>>16460642
That switching of bodies isn't the official version, it's just an alternate story perpetrated by apologists like Euripides in his Iphigenia in Tauris. Don't forget he also wrote Helen, where he depicts how Helen never went to Troy.

>>16460697
>That switching of bodies isn't the official version

I don't think there is such a thing as an "official version", but there was definitely multiple traditions out there, classicists note that Homer in the Illiad (and possibly the author of Odyssey. I forget) never alludes to the sacrifice.

>>16460441
Is liilykike Butterfly?

>>16460716
I dont recall it mentionned on either of those two. My memory may be in the wrong tho

>>16460716
Even then you gotta admit that the switching of bodies version forcibly had to materialize much later.

>>16460734
If that was so, then why did not Homer ever allude to it? The Illiad, sure, that one didn't really get into the fates of Odysseus or Agam., however, Agamemnon is given a star-cameo in the Odyssey and never says "Oh! My bitch wife killed me in revenge for the sacrifice of my daughter!"

Possibly Homer felt that it would make him look bad, but it's also possible that Iphigenia getting switched out was the standard at his time.

>>16460337
>darkacademia

How does my respect for women keep reaching new lows? I keep thinking it's bottomed out, and they keep surprising me by doing something even more shallow, stupid, and selfish than I could have ever imagined

They consistently defy my lowest expectations

>>16460465
She was.

>>16460633
Why are men so inhumane?

>>16460722
No, but she seems really “based”

>>16460764
She wasn't. She was seduced by Aigisthoos (thus, agency in the plot wasn't even with her), and the entire tradition concerns Aigisthoos being a cousin of Agamemnon whose uncle screwed that branch of the family over.

She was not justified.

>>16460751
Just looked it up and found out Proclus wrote a summary of the Cypria mentioning how Iphigenia was snatched by Artemis and became her priestess in Tauris; so that version is older than I thought.

>>16460773
She should have just killed him herself outright, but of course the plot twists some with this throne seeking stuff, but no, she’s very much justified in killing a lout like that for letting his daughter be sacrificed, for the sake of wind, for war, for more killing and nonsense. No. Death was too good for him.

>>16460833
But then you're just perpetrating the cycle of revenge in any case. The Furies would still get butthurt at her, wasn't that the entire point of Aeschylus' Oresteia? If anything, both Geny and Clytie were in the wrong.

>>16460337
>schools are making their students read shitty translations of the iliad and not based robert fagles (pbuh)

>>16460294
Because their retard cuckold boomer professors teach them that Clytemnestra was actually the good guy in the Oresteia and that her actions were morally justified.

>>16460405
>be commanded by god to do something
>obey god
>somehow you're bad
I think the entirety of the Greek world would disagree with you

>>16460642
>but he was subpar physically against Achilles
Well obviously, everyone on earth was. That's like saying Arnold Schwarzenegger doesn't have a godly physique because Dwayne Johnson has a better one.

>>16460852
Blame and blame and blame, it winds way back to Discordia and ends with the founding of Rome and the age of Apollo. But that’s to end soon enough too.

>>16460833
>nooo death and war is bad!!
This is why modernists, and especially women, have no business reading the classics.

>>16460872
I should have clarified, I should have meant in the measure of looks. In any case, that the movie made Achilles Brad Pitt is very true to the books. Agamemnon was a Lord, not a warrior-play boy.

>>16460884
discordianism is such an ancient meme man, go back in a time-machine to the 70's

>>16460833
>she’s very much justified in killing a lout like that for letting his daughter be sacrificed

already at odds with the tradition, and the most famous stories we have her leave the blame at her seduction, not at any anger over her daughter.

she murdered her husband so she could be with his cousin, nothing more.

>>16460887
>Thinks war and death are good
Just kys

>>16460899
Didn’t even reference RAW. Did he call this the age of Apollo too?

>>16460405
This

>>16460907
>Playwrights. Believe the playwrights!
No

>>16460913
age of the gods are over, as is the age of californian new age mumbo jumbo

>>16460907
Arguing with Butters aside, your brainlet take doesn't do justice to the nuance of Aeschylus.

>>16460928
This is just how Apollo likes it. Nice and hidden.

>>16460337
>darkacademia
literally the definition of literally being a pseud
my god, we got to the fucking 3rd stage simulacrum of intellectualy...

>>16460853
>based robert fagles (pbuh)
HERESY

>>16460887
>nooo death and war is bad!!
did you even read the Iliad

>>16460931
Haven't even read Aeschylus yet, talking about the mythos itself sans poetic license.

>>16460981
Indeed.

>>16460988
So basically headcanon.

>>16461005
you don't separate the idea of "mythos and various (at times, competing) traditional interpretations" and "tragedian adaptations"?

you just mish-mash them all together in some confused lump? you silly billy..

>>16461024
Still curious from where you got your version that you call a "traditional interpretation". You certainly weren't roaming around in Greece during the 8th century BC and got the myth transmitted to you directly from the oral tradition.

>>16461038
>Still curious from where you got your version that you call a "traditional interpretation".

Sure. I usually get them from Classicists who compose arguments out of evidence that we have. Again, there is no proof out there that the "original" tradition of Agamemnon had him murder his daughter; only that he had meant to sacrifice her but she was saved at the last minute by Artemis.

I'm not exactly certain how this got sand in your pussy, but I suggest you read some more.

>>16460752
You're so fucking dramatic, get over yourself.

>>16461063
greetings, roastie. why don’t you go post about the first ten pages of the oresteia with the rest of your dark academic humanities sequence classmates? are you single? does your anus stink?

>>16461048
I think he’s just interested in how you come to these conclusions.
So you’re saying everyone saw Iphigenia get rescued at the last minute before sailing off to war, and that’s the original Greek?

>>16461073
Fucker, there’s a whole board that talks about that crap.
Aren’t /fa/ posters supposed to be over 18?

>>16460294
>Agamemnon
Imagine being killed by your wife and the man who cucked you after winning the Trojan war LMFAO

>>16461084
hey that’s MY roastie, stay away you man-ass-munching whore!!!!

>>16461074
>So you’re saying everyone saw Iphigenia get rescued at the last minute before sailing off to war, and that’s the original Greek?

From the oldest extant "copies" of what we have, yes. Homer never referred to it, and he was as concerned with Agamemnon as he was with Ody, Achilles, Aias(es) and others.

I presume he really likes Aeschylus, but doesn't understand that there was a "rationalizing" period in Greek thought towards religion; and removing the element of Artemis from the story so she is truly sacrificed would definitely fall under that trend.

You yourself are also going "uh, well did anyone see it"? I mean, we're talking about a mythological tale here, I don't think anyone saw anything; much less are we even sure a historical Agamemnon actually sacrificed a living Iphegenia, much less one saved by a Goddess.

>>16461074
What got me was his claim:
>she murdered her husband so she could be with his cousin, nothing more

Later he claimed he got that version from "Classicists", but he has never read Aeschylus (the oldest extant version of the myth). So I'm still wondering if he did actually live in the Archaic period and he's getting his myths from there.

>>16461104
None of them are historical, we know. Liilykke and her friends are clear to hate on the fictional foul father.

>>16461114
>What got me was his claim: she murdered her husband so she could be with his cousin, nothing more

Which is exactly how Homer portrayed it in the Odyssey...

>Later he claimed he got that version from "Classicists", but he has never read Aeschylus (the oldest extant version of the myth).

that is not the oldest extant version of the myth, and Aeschylus was a Greek playwright, are you saying that greeks took their playwrights as the final-say in religious matters? that's ridiculous.

>>16460294
Absolutely. Achilles was a bitch who should've listened to his king. Why would people hate ajax? He was pretty much a good soldier and champion

>>16460853
Lattimore's translation is closer to the Greek so makes more sense as a study edition

Does it burn you knowing that highschoolers have more informed opinions than you do?

>>16460294
In the Odyssey Agamemnon tells Odysseus not to trust women.

>>16460764
>>16460833
>>16460884
>>16460913
>>16460927
>>16461084
>>16461120
You will never be a woman

>>16460431
The real villain is Helen.

>>16462128
Define "closer to the Greek".

Lattimore writers clunky, syntactically-weird phrases to replicate a foreign language. Homer never did that. Therefore, Lattimore's translation has a completely different effect than one would get from reading Homer in the original.

>>16460294
What's that painting supposed to show?

>>16460294
>Why the fuck would they? How can you justify this?
Gods didn't like Agamemnon, so it's YOU who should justify liking him.
Also there's plenty of motives to hate him such as all the defeats suffered by Acheans in the book are his fault. Additionally, the tiktok "people" may be talking about the Troy film cause they didn't read the book.

>>16460294
>>16460337

So far you have provided one example of one woman (who appears to be a teenager girl who is probably reading the classics for the first time) saying she hates Agamemnon on Tiktok. Based on my quick search, it seems that this is literally the only time it has ever happened. Yet OP and multiple other people in this thread are engaging in some bizarre role-play exercise in which they pretend that "women hating Agamenon on tiktok" is some kind of social phenomenon that is threatening their precious canon?

Honestly, what is more pathetic? A girl who is interested in the classics sharing her interest with the world and saying an idea that she'll probably realize is dumb in a few years... Or a bunch of virgins circlejerking over an idiotic gatekeeping fantasy they came up with after looking at a teenage girl's social media account?

>>16462548
he posted comments faggot >>16460441

tripfaaaaaagggg writing a post
tripfaaag contributes to another dumb thread with a dumb opinion
tripfaaaaaaahggg has no life
i sage this thread

>>16460853
>not Fitzgerald
NGMI