/lit/ - Literature

Is there a book or any way to really measure rhythm in prose? I'm trying to find how to build up within a sentence or a paragraph without relying on plot

Need to create 4 different fictional "races". Aside from appearance, what's the most surefire way to ensure they will feel as different from eachother as possible? Give me examples of 4 way dynamics I can pull from (4 elements, political compass, myers briggs groups, europe/asia/america/africa, four temperaments, etc)

Thoughts on the female cast of my soon to be best-selling fantasy series?

I asked this at the end of the last thread but only got one nonanswer, so I will try again. Assume you’re ready to publish a large paperback (400-600 pages 6x9 format), does anyone know the most cost effective company that does services like this while maintaining some standard of quality. I’ve looked into it a bit and most reviewers claim Ingram Spark can print higher quality books than Amazon and that, in general, print books are best gotten from IS for distribution reasons. What I’ve found is that most common services will charge somewhere between 8-12 dollars per book printed at this size. That might seem reasonable but consider that anything sold will only earn you a 30-60 percent royalty (after printing costs are deducted) depending on the platform. If you look at a traditional publishing house’s catalogue, they are able to sell 800-900 page books (brothers Karamazov for example) at price points ranging as low as 8 but at an average of 12 dollars. While I understand that their methods may not be available to the self-publisher, I’m wondering if anyone knows the best vendor to keep printing costs low?

>>16348200
Have you read Ulysses? Joyce is pretty great at that, and may help you out with it. As far as books specifically on the topic, I have no idea

>>16348311
>all female cast
But anon, one of those is clearly a dude

>>16348389
Okay I'll definitely check him out. Need something new I can control in my writing. I just started trying rhyming in my prose to see if I can tease out rhythm.

Okay, this is the best I can make this first chapter. I even added a drawing.

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/35523/lummox-flummox/chapter/547646/chapter-1

And I have four more chapters after that, but I guess you have to make it through the first one to get there. But I think they improve in quality over time.

>have idea
>write it down
>finish the story
>it ends up being a couple of pages
How do I become more descriptive? should I take the Asimov pill and have a bunch of conversations where they describe everything?

>>16348308
you can do elements of astrology this is more details some you have to put together in your own way https://imgur.com/a/eKVtZol

Might help https://astrostyle.com/learn-astrology/the-elements-fire-earth-air-and-water-signs/

>>16348311
Rolling.
Dark haired twins come as a package if you roll 3
Blonde twins come as a package if 8
Everyone else follows in sequential order, 0-9
Dubs is both sets of twins
Trips is any three
Quads is isekai harem for (you)

>pls 1 or 6

>>16348431
because you're writing by an idea not for the sake of writing or character or plot or whatever

>>16348431
Write what you want to read. Do you want to read descriptions? Or, do you want to read conversations, or interesting situations, or people thinking, philosophizing etc. etc.
The idea, plot, w/e - that's just an excuse to express something anyway.

>>16348384
I do not other than making your own or having a big deal.
Try china maybe?

Has anyone here had poetry published?
I have some work that’s nearly ready to fire off but I’ve never submitted anything before.
Lets say my poetry is bready gud (whether it is or isn’t in actuality), how likely would it be that it gets published in a magazine?
I do worry sometimes that my stuff is a little too “pop” to get a good reception. Frequently it comes across more in the style of The Beatles than Ted Hughes. Does shit like this get published? I’m only new to reading poetry and haven’t come across anyone like how I write.

>>16348308
You could try empedocles 4 elements. He explains what they stand for, how they break down into each other and he also has love and strife fundamental to them. You can reword love and strife to have one on each side or let that be a dividing line or even introduce something fundamental to that which they're all under. Try to inverse it maybe have aliens or dark world

>>16348384
Amazon is probably fine, and I imagine that their pricing is very competitive, since they're amazon. The farther you get away from big corps like Amazon, the more expensive it's probably going to be

>>16348482
I haven't but I've seen really topical poetry get published in writing magazines so it won't be too hard there if you're good.

Amazon takes between a 30% to 70% cut on profits for any books you write.
OnlyFans takes only a 20% cut on profits.

I believe the choice is clear.

>>16348500
Plus you can post anonymously if you want, get a feel for the waters

>>16348530
yes, you have to get a job

>>16348496
I’m almost certain that amazon makes a significant margin on printing books using their on demand service.
>>16348530
Really makes you think...

Tell me about your journal. What do you write in it? Random thoughts? Notes for stories? Poems?

You do keep a journal right anon?

>>16348311
And where are the black ones?

>>16348561
I have no time for a journal, as I'm writing other things. And those things? They are my life anyway. Otherwise, I wouldn't be just a pseud, not a writer.

>>16348561
I have one which I write in infrequently.
I just talk about what’s happening in my life and how I’m feeling.
I treat it like it’s a person I’m speaking to because I have no friends. I have a section in the back where I write down my dreams, which I use for my poetry.

>>16348561
I've kinda wanted to get into journaling for a while, but I usually read for a few hours before bed and don't really have time for it

>>16348596
>I just talk about what’s happening in my life and how I’m feeling.
Huh, is that what people talk about with friends? Interesting.

>>16348559
Yeah they definitely make a significant margin, but there isn't exactly a wealth of options out there

Why do I always feel so drained and empty after finishing writing for the day? No matter whether I think the writing is good or not.

>>16348629
You just poured a part of yourself onto paper, it is only natural.

>>16348629
It is like that some days. Try to congratulate yourself for having been productive and making good progress on your writing more often

Okay, so I have a short story I just can’t decide the ending of.
It’s about a guy waiting in the countryside bus-stop in the early morning, so early it’s dark. He’s infatuated with her.
I began writing it not having an ending in sight but I hit a point where I couldn’t decide if he was going to brutally murder her or not.
I guess it’s a story about purity in the world now that I think of it, right? He idealises this girl as this vision of purity.
I simply just can’t decide whether he allows her to exist or he snuffs her out, like how the world snuffs out purity, if you get drunk and think about things in a maudlin sort of way.

>>16348739
Kill that bitch

>>16348739
Don't have him kill her, have him deflower her some way. Make him do something to her because he is in love with her purity, only to have his own actions take away that purity.

Okay, so I have a short story I just can’t decide the ending of.
It’s about a guy waiting in the countryside bus-stop in the early morning, so early it’s dark, with a woman. He’s infatuated with her.
I began writing it not having an ending in sight but I hit a point where I couldn’t decide if he was going to brutally murder her or not.
I guess it’s a story about purity in the world now that I think of it, right? He idealises this girl as this vision of purity.
I simply just can’t decide whether he allows her to exist or he snuffs her out, like how the world snuffs out purity, if you get drunk and think about things in a maudlin sort of way.

>>16348748
Kill that bitch, first rape (make sure to describe that she’s actually enjoying that) the decapitate her

>>16348739
They're both kinda overdone. Do which would have a more interesting ending to your book. Would he be happy if he killed her or sad if she was alive and he grew past her kinda

>>16348748
Don't do >>16348751
I'd like to resubmit my post here: >>16348747

I think it's the correct twist ending to such a set up. But I suppose it depends on what lessons or themes you want the book to end on? That humans are weak and fragile and willing to be susceptible to their passionate rages? Sure then do >>16348751

That humans are creatures of habit and don't take action on their ideological dispositions? Then just have him walk away.

But I think the truly fucked up thing would be for some inconsequential action by the main character be the catalyst for his own demise.

>>16348769
>But I think the truly fucked up thing would be for some inconsequential action by the main character be the catalyst for his own demise.
This is the most interesting course of action anon. Could you elaborate please? I’ve never considered the narrator meeting his own end.

>>16348748
That is a bit cringey. Did you ever read White Nights by Dostoyevsky? I guess we can say you are updating a similar scenario for post-American Psycho minds but, at least for me, the whole idea of a guy randomly killing a girl at a bus stop...I mean, it's not impossible but it's not exactly a nuanced response to her existence. We might expect this behavior from, just that, an American psycho-- a legitimate psychopath; but psychopaths by the way are not very 'deep' characters, just an unfathomable source of fascination for us because of their singularity of purpose (they report only 'feeling alive' when killing and other such ridiculous things). On a biological level any man who experiences infatuation is going to consider a number of scenarios in which he forces himself on her and she allows it or not. I guess for me, it's more interesting if nothing were to happen at all despite his experiencing that desire but even that doesn't say enough about human relation and what we put out there versus what we experience inside of us always. I would recommend you read that short story.

>>16348877
Continued.

Personally, I don't like Michael Haneke movies. I think they suck and that they don't really describe even what (I assume) they're attempting to describe (which is 'a world of actualized desires without the veneer of etiquette or reservation). It kind of comes from the same silly idea that, 'you would have been a nazi too!' because all us of are constantly capable of outright murdering anyone else. I think it's pretty reductive stuff and doesn't say much of interest about humanity for such an action to take place in your story. I mean, when I read about certain youths engaging in spontaneous rapes and murders, it doesn't exactly humanize them in my view.
>He kills her --- We take away that 'the world' (as represented by the boy) "snuffs out purity"
So we're not really condemning his actions? Because the world snuffs it out anyway and he is merely an agent of the world? Basically, anyone would have done it...just in another, maybe less literal, way.
>He thinks of raping her/killing her but doesn't--- guess it depends on why he doesn't.
I mean, what's the point of killing her if the point is that the world is going to do it anyway?

Are you writing in a horror (or horror adjacent) genre? Do want to join a discord server with others who are doing this?

We also like:
talking about books
talking about horror films
philosophical pessimism
buddhism

FADE TO BLACK
https://discord.gg/R5WVzH9

>>16349030
What's your favorite horror movie, anon? For me it's The Witch. The writers for that movie did an amazing job at transferring the feelings of exile and paranoia to the viewer

Is it too edgy if I have my protagonist witness a little girl being killed before his eyes? It's grim dark fantasy setting and a brutal scene is needed for the protagonist to switch side.

>>16349072
It takes more effort to write it well

Anyone else get story ideas from dreams? Honestly this is one of my most powerful story idea generators in no small part because I have exceedingly cinematic, detailed and revelatory dreams. But it's sort of like waiting for lightening to strike. By no means a reliable method.

>>16349103
I'm not talented enough to adequately describe the bizarre dreams I have in words

>>16349103
It's possible to have consistent dreams (or enter a dream-like state) through meditation.

>>16348863
I didn't write your story. I don't know who he is or who she is. I don't know why he's obsessed and I don't know what makes her pure. I don't know the series of actions that occur to be able to find the one spot to put the thing in where this happens. This is your job now. You are the writer. Find the moment. Find the thing.

>e.g. he thinks part of her purity is her pale skin, but he was the one who bought/convinced her to go to the beach and she got a tan, thus she was ruined

Not that it's a good example, but it gets across the point. His actions ruin his own fantasy because he didn't see her as an individual who has autonomy and isn't just a piece of ass on a pedestal.

>>16349103
My dreams are too David Lynch to write a narrative story about. I just write poetry about my dreams.

>>16349293

>>16349363
Yeah, get into Taoism.

https://thesecretofthegoldenflower.com/index.html

>>16348587
> just a pseud, not a writer.
Learning about yourself and becoming authentic is the only way not to be a pseud. It sounds like you’re doing this through writing.
>>16348596
> I treat it like it’s a person I’m speaking to
I do this also, but it’s amorphous in structure. I switch between talking to myself, an imagined audience after my death, a psychologist, FBI agents, or the inanimate page I’m writing on.
>>16348601
Do it in a word document on your phone or computer. I am Ni so I contemplate too much, especially at the wrong times, and splurging those thoughts out in a few minutes when they come up helps manage it.
Journaling doesn’t have to be “dear diary today I walked my dog and felt sad...”. You can write whatever you want: thoughts, poems, cool story ideas, a mess or loop of letters stuck in your brain. Whatever.
>>16349103
They are good short story fuel. Writing your dreams down in detail as soon as you wake up will make you dream more vividly and more frequently.
The problem for me then became that half my dreams are interesting and half of them are me doing normal, waking stuff.

>>16349376
>I switch between talking to myself, an imagined audience after my death, a psychologist, FBI agents, or the inanimate page I’m writing on.
Very interesting. I think I’ll give this a shot. Seems like it’ll boost my fictional output while simultaneously journaling.

How the fuck do you edit senpai? I am a decent writer. Spelling and grammar are very good. I can go a little Dostoyevsky with the details sometimes so i trim things down and make them succinct and then i read the paragraph again and again and again until it loses all meaning and the story seems like completely generic boring bullshit because it has become the standard of what i read for a week straight. Do you just edit out the typos and publish that shit? Is it Even possible to enjoy ones own writing?

>>16349293
One can also try drinking mugwort tea (or absinthe if you booze), ghost pipe flower or melatonin.

>>16349417
if you have a writing style you're passionate about you edit to it

>>16349417
You should have a strong idea of what you want your writing to flow like, so you know if certain sections are cringe and which ones are based. That way, if you read over the same text a thousand times, even though you get bored of it, at least you know if it’s congruent with the mission statement you’ve laid out.

>>16349417
Do pass throughs with time between edits. First pass through is technical edits, punctuation, spelling etc. Then on the next pass through have one major issue you want to fix like smoother dialogue or whatever, then go through and do that. If there is something you see you want to edit but it isn't your focus of that pass through, highlight it later.

What should you do when you actually finish a book? Put it on amazon or submit it to a publisher or what?

>>16349084
Any example?

A soft strum on a guitar of sorts, gently, tingly. Re-imagining passages of the past, thrusting forth and this is all. The fain in a catharsis of realization. What will tomorrow bring? I’m so tired now, it’s all so burdensome. I sit in this empty house and type. I sit here and say nothing, I barely exist.... But then, that’d be lying. I’m the center of my own universe, and there’s no solutions… Not even dying. Rest, and nothing more, sleep well my dears it’s all a dream.

>>16349103
>Anyone else get story ideas from dreams?
I used to see frequent nightmares where I was chased by terrible monsters. Then one day I had the idea to make use of those dreams and put the monsters in my story. I stopped having nightmares after that.

>>16349993
Someone asks this question in every single thread, is it really that hard to read the threads or figure out for yourself? How the fuck should anyone here know what you want to do with your book?

>>16349417
>>16349505
Basically this. You can't recognize the problems in the text so well when you've been staring at it for weeks. You need distance, put it away for a while, ideally for at least a month and then reread. It'll look completely different to you then.

Thoughts on writing niche porn to make some money? I can't go on with my main project with empty pockets

>>16348192
Every time I read a great work of poetry or literature I remember that I want to be a poet and my greatest fear is that this is an area I shall never succeed in.

I constantly have ideas, both styalistically and content-wise, as far as they can be spoken of separately, but no action.

>>16349103
>waiting
You can go back into dreams you've already had if your imagination is strong enough. You can also use Active Imagination to 'pull' dreamcharacters into conscious thought and interview them but there's a chance of getting stuck. Its risky but the creative benefits are worth it.

>>16348422
I'm not sure what disgusts me more, your Dosto-aping italicised opening or the irony overload of calling your story Lummox, then launching into the full formal register.

How to stop being afraid of being too arcane? Should I put a limit on it? I''m trying not to do weird for the sake of it but explore things in very unusual ways. Any advice?
Btw, still asking about the stalker MC, what to do and what to avoid? Im using common sense with this one

>>16348192
What are your guys daily/weekly writing schedule/habit? How many words/pages do you aim for?
I'm hoping to start building it but I tend to slip so quickly back into failure after a few days

>>16348192
Got published with a small indie press a little while back. Don't make enough to quit my day job but i got shortlisted for an award.
ask me anything

>>16348311
+
they don't wear heels
the fatty actually has a body type for a brawler
left chick actually wear something that could work for combat
white hair chick protects herself and others from the bat flu
-
mostly white
have very similar style as if it was picked by someone with a fetish
mostly generic hairstyles
mostly generic color combos
very generic faces
most look underage

Kinda meh. One easy trick when it comes to iconic character design are silhouettes. If your characters don't stand out among other franchises too, the designs are too generic. Doubt most of these would even stand out among each other.

>>16348422
The intro was tedious and cringe-worthy as fuck, nor didn't seem to add anything. It got better when the dialogue finally started but there just wasn't anything to catch my attention. Overall, I found your writing style alright, it never felt amazing but it never reached the usual RR lows too. If the story itself was of any interest for me, I'd keep reading.

Also the drawing is pretty good yo.

>>16348561
It's basically a diary but one I update every half a year. Mostly covers my writing progress with some RL shit mixed in between. I have a "no re-reading previous entries" rule, so it might be fun to check the shit out in a few years.

>>16349072
It's typical crap. If you want to be edgy, let him murder her to protect her from getting raped by his mates or some shit. Or come up with a more creative way to change sides.

>>16350798
Based bookwriter.

>>16348192
I am planning on someday write a book on some weird-ass but probably unoriginal low fantasy alt-history setting. The (mostly) normal timeline gets fucked in the mid to late 1500s. I can and will respond as I can.

>>16348192
Also, I am making a slew of short horror stories, currently, I am working on one about the ocean but I have been told my writing is too generic.

>>16350523
>your Dosto-aping italicised opening
It was the only way for me to, you know, point out that the narrator is supposed to be unreliable, that everything that they say comes from a biased perspective. Without it, 1.1 apparently seems like the author's thoughts, and based on it the reader loses all faith in them not being a massive retard.

>>16350838
>The intro was tedious and cringe-worthy as fuck, nor didn't seem to add anything.
Well, I guess I'm just enjoying/exploring that sort of writing right now. It's supposed to be skewed philosophizing/worldview used to paint who the main character is. A bit of foreshadowing too, something related to what happens later but ambiguous enough not to spoil anything.

And if forces me to work on my prose I think, to make it easy and fun (for me) to read. I could have written the same thing, but make it sound like a lexicon if I wasn't careful. Naturally moving from one thought to the next is a skill to develop too I think.

>Also the drawing is pretty good yo.
Thanks.

Writing feels like a technical chore to me, I feel cringed for days, scared to just fucking write whatever shit that rolls into my brain, instead I've been googling stuff for hours researching until I get a 20 chrome tabs, frantically looking for the best synonyms and vivid description.

it's been days, I just want to complete at least 3 chapters of 2000-ish words before uni starts.

>>16351154
2000-2500 words on each chapters*

>>16351156
You could be writing that much a day, if you have nothing else to do and you are serious about it... Best synonyms? Vivid descriptions? You do know, if anybody is going to read that, they'll just gloss over it. That's all just wank for yourself.

>>16351154
Heh, I can somewhat relate, and I'm just re-writing my second novel, so I SHOULD KNOW BETTER, but it's still tedious at times.

Though for me the biggest challenge are unknown locations and transitions. Like I'm currently writing a jailbreak and use a real prison as a rough inspiration but there are basically no pictures online about how the fucking entrance area would looks like, so I have to combine information I got from multiple documentaries into one and hope it's somewhat authentic.

And the transition part, is that most of the shit isn't even necessary but it seems easier to write stuff out and then compress it.

Wish I had better suggestion to offer than. "just keep writing, bruv"

>>16351166
>You do know, if anybody is going to read that, they'll just gloss over it.
Not him but that's exactly why I look for the most efficient ones to get key stuff across. But to know the most efficient one, you generally need a bigger picture.

>>16351166
>>16351186
>>16351192

I already had the whole thing carefully organized, from all the plot points, chapter plannings, beginning and the end, but the process of actually writing the story keeps reminding me of my therapist office. It's not a sensitive story in any way, just about a spoiled teenager who's trying to get his ass enrolled to a college with a twist of cosmic horror.

Here's the concept art of it btw

>>16350798
post an excerpt so I can know if I should hate you

>>16348422
I'm the anon that said the voices twist wasn't clear enough but I actually think you've gone too far the other way now. I know it's annoying but readers are like Goldilocks, too obvious, too cryptic. Find a balance.

>An underground man, a user of nonsense.
This bit is uninspired and cringe. I didn't hate the rest of the intro but this part seems like you're really into yourself and you can't blame it on "waah it's just the character" anymore because it isn't. It's you. This is exactly what people said about your writing in the other thread and you said it was just the character.

I like the drawing and, like before, the writing has potential.

>>16351375
>An underground man, a user of nonsense.

Duuude, I thought it smelled faintly of Zaregoto when it was first posted without the intro, now I see it wasn't just a coincidence. This is the kind of sleazy that really gets under my skin.

>>16351266
>spoiled teenager who's trying to get his ass enrolled to a college
Like some super elite sort of shit? Sounds interesting already.
>with a twist of cosmic horror
Eh. This has the potential to go super dull or super interesting.

The hell do the teens look like 19th century colonialists in Africa and what's the deal with the white haired chick?

>>16351407
>This is the kind of sleazy that really gets under my skin.
What are you so upset about?

>>16351443
Why, I'm simply disappointed to discover that the potential I thought I saw in anon's story was just aped aesthetic from a popular author, and there was no bigger message after all. And by the audacity of slapping the slogan of another series on his work and assuming nobody would notice.

Bonus points for treating the readers like retards and actually thinking they can't tell if the narrator is reliable, or unrealiable, or the author himself without a special notification, only because of some dumbfuck 4chan comment. Fuck, thanks for making me even angrier.

>>16348748
Cringe, edgy, pseud. All that aside, it also sounds pretty boring. The idea from the other anon about deflowering her/ruining her purity is like what a 15 year old boy thinks is clever.

>>16351375
>you can't blame it on "waah it's just the character" anymore because it isn't. It's you.
plot twist: the intro was also written by the narrator as self-deprecating self-aggrandizing wank
Heh, I guess it's all too viscerally unlikable. Well, I'll think about the rest of your points later, and see if I can do anything, if not for this project, then for the future ones. For now, I'll draw some more.

Thanks for the criticism, I appreciate it. It's way better than writing in a vacuum.

>>16350798
what award was it?

>>16351419
The main character is a reclusive nerd kind of guy that's keep shitted on by his parents so he went elsewhere to another city, fired up to get his own degree, interacting with people there while improving his ruined social skills. The cosmic horror part was the girl, she's a candy shop owner who gave him a peculiar candy as a gift. The candy has this psychedelic effects that makes the consumer projects his inner desires into reality, thus hindering the boy's studying process.

what screams BAD WRITING to you?

for me, it's overusing prepositional phrases.

>>16351483
You've been tricked :^)

Idk how nobody would notice, as the intro is just a bunch of references (Confederacy of Dunces, Notes form the Underground, Zaregoto), intentionally pointing to the works. Whatever the aesthetical influence you see, I won't deny it, but I think I'm just subconsciously gravitating towards it at this point. I read too much from a single author, the writing felt like it was made just for me, and it inspired me to write more.
What did I do anyway, hit enter too much sometimes? It's not like I plagiarized anything, and the subject material/plot is an amalgamation of what I've been writing and thinking about for a long time anyway.

>Bonus points for treating the readers like retards
Eh, I just added a couple of lines at the start to clear things up.

>>16351486
>plot twist: I was still only pretending to be retarded
It works for 1.1 but it doesn't work for an intro. >>16351483 this guy is right. Even if you intended for the intro to be pretentious and the references to be obvious. Even if you were taking on feedback from the other thread when you wrote the intro. It was much better without and it would be obvious to most people that 1.1 is the character not the author.

I don't want you to think that the rest of it was viscerally unlikable, just the intro. I actually really enjoyed 1.1.

>>16351560
>It's not like I plagiarized anything

Yeah, this is exactly why I'm calling it sleazy. Taking shit left and right and being insincere about it. Being inspired and influenced is one thing, but when the only good parts about your writing are borrowed elsewhere, you have a problem.

>>16351527
Give an example, please.

>>16350838
>the fatty actually has a body type for a brawler
Fourth from the right? She's not fat, she's all muscle.

>>16348311
The white dress armpit slut aaaahhhh

>>16351611 examples is a big giveaway too. and grammatical parallelism especially in groupings of three.

>>16351527
I could enjoy any published writing on actual papers, the fact that it's been made into an official physical publication is at least bearable to read

Online platforms however, if I see any typos or repeated words, spellings and not actually giving fuck about putting words together correctly right on the beginning I'll drop it immediately.

>>16351561
> It was much better without and it would be obvious to most people that 1.1 is the character not the author.
Hmm, alright, I'll dump it into oblivion, it breaks the flow at the start too much. But to be honest, I don't see it being there or not as crucially important.
>I actually really enjoyed 1.1.
Thanks. Most of the other chapters start with a similar type of thing, about related to the chapter topics.

>>16351604
I think at this point you're just thinking that everything that you somewhat like must be stolen, simply because a moronic anon couldn't possibly write anything that you'd like in the first place. Well, I guess you can't trust a "liar".

>>16351656
hmmm, I still don't understand you.

>>16351520
Not quite what I expected but sounds like a cute story overall with some fun story telling potential once you throw in the candy into the mix.

>>16351527
For one, lack of honesty. I'd rather read some 15 year old girl's Twilight fanfiction that is technically a horroshow but comes from a honest place instead of some pseud shit that is there to serve the ego of the writer and/or pandering to the audience.
After that, probably lack of self-awareness. Super fucking common on RR, when shit reads like someone apes their favorite anime and tries to write how they perceive the stuff visually instead of adjusting to the medium they are using.

On the more technical side, obviously shit like (unintentional) overuse of adverbs, wallowing on mundanities (extra points for trying to mystify common stuff with uncommon words and elaborate descriptions and words) and spoonfeeding the reader with obvious information that's obvious in subtext.

>>16351658 letting typographical errors slip by because the author, editor, and publisher have lots of important things to do and too little time is actually a mark of quality, to me.
>>16351704 that's fine.

>>16350867
I'm not exactly going for something mindbreaking with scene. And I know you just want to outedge me with that post, but the protagonist is not that kind of idealist. He will witness his fellow soldier kill a little girl and her grandparents when the little girl's sister is there watching helplessly. The story I'm going for is the protagonist sort of deserts the army and helps the sister escape the country. I just want to make sure the shocking scene that change the protagonist is not too shocking for readers

>>16351660
>I think at this point you're just thinking that everything that you somewhat like must be stolen

Certain techniques stand out if you're familiar with the original author. The way they were used was so vague and aimless, I gave anon the benefit of doubt and assumed it was just a coincidence. Nothing about the synopsis or illustrations suggested a connection, and he didn't mention it in his comments here either.

But now the cat's out of the bag, and since there actually was a connection, then obviously my trust is gone.

>>16351718
Thanks to you I managed to collect my energy to continue on finishing, love it when you say it can be a cute story. It's a whimsical show of humane emotions not knowing they are being played by an eldritch yet somewhat benevolent abomination.

I'll post the three first chapters here later, the title is Out of Your Reach. Iosefka is here for your care.

>>16351864
Based. I'll check it out later. Clearly it's time to step my own game up and finish this damn chapter.

Are there any books on writing fiction worth reading?

>>16348431
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGUNqq3jVLg
vid related will help

>>16348311
What the fuck

>>16349047
I'd actually probably say The Witch too! Rosemary's Baby and The Wicker Man are other favs.

Why do we indent the start of a paragraph?
Is it just a visual indicator, or does it have an actual reason?

>>16354100
save space on paper books

you

don't

indent

in

digital

>>16354184
You're sure about that? I've seen it done in most ebooks.

Exercise your writing muscles in the Flash Fiction thread! >>16352548

>>16351527
Most of them have been mentioned already, but I was reading a random story on RR last night that was grammatically pretty decent, but had clunky and awkward phrasing at least once a paragraph. I feel like a lot of amateur writers were never taught to read something aloud to see if it sounds right. If your writing reads like you're fresh off the boat, it's not a very good sign.

I'm also not very fond of first person unless it suits the narrative and makes sense. If you're trying to give me an intimate narrative from one person's point of view, then yeah it's good, but it seems like a lot of amateur writers default to first person since it's easier and comes more naturally

>>16351154
>frantically looking for the best synonyms
Please don't do this. Your writing is just going to end up being exceptionally purple and annoying to read. Go for simple, clear descriptions

>>16352874
What is wrong? The muscle girl?

Is this prompt retarded?

Engl 385 Essay #1: Art vs Entertainment In her work “On the Art of Fiction,”Willa Cather argues that writing for market demand is a safe act while writing something artistic is intrinsic and has nothing to do with standardized values. Is this the divide between art and entertainment in writing? Is inventive writing often not profitable,and popular fiction likely not imaginative?Write in support or opposition of Cather’s argument. Provide worthwhile evidence to support your position. Note:•Avoid anecdotal digression: use worthwhile evidence& support•Minimum page count: 3 pages •Formatting: MLA

>>16356014
Not really. It's kind of the fundamental question for those going into writing. Is it possible to writing that has both mass appeal and artistic merit or not? I'd say it isn't any more, at least not in the form of novels (screenwriting is the new medium to reach the masses, imo).

I have a horror series on most E-Book stores (4 books, and 1 coming soon) I actually based a lot of the ideas, on stuff I hear pop on on the various boards here.
Anyway, I'm trying to get marketing tips, as of late.
Any sort of advice would be appreciated, thanks.

How do I parody middle/upper class british society as an american?

how do I get over writer's block?

>>16356105
Stop believing in dumb memes like that. You're either too afraid or too lazy to go on.

>>16356085
the same way I use aussie dialect as a west coast american; just be yourself and make your readers die from cringe.

>>16356105
Just sit down and write. Writer's block is an excuse for just being lazy and not having enough willpower. Always remember that the difference between a professional and an amateur is that the professional writes even when he doesn't feel like it

>>16356450
Not him and I don't believe in muh writers block but isn't writing when you don't feel like it just a recipe for soulless filler? Rediscovering the spark or overcoming the fear/lazyness with excitement sounds way more productive.

>>16356524
You can always go back over what you've written later and modify it to have more soul. You don't need to feel especially excited or inspired to at least follow your outline and get a narrative draft down. Of course it's different if you're just writing for fun/as a hobby; but if you want to turn it into a career down the line, you're kinda expected to hit a certain word count every day. You're also never going to get the amount of practice that it requires to be good at writing if you only write when you feel inspired. Stephen King wrote a mountain of unpublishable work before stuff started to stick, and it's the same for many other writers. Even James Joyce threw out his first novel and rewrote it

>>16356524
Read Shitty First Drafts.

>>16356549
>you're kinda expected to hit a certain word count every day
There are enough examples that go against the trend and only publish something every few years/decades.

Now sure, obviously it's ideal if you have a predictable output and it's easier to edit stuff than working from scratch but what's really the point of a writer career that's a chore? There are tons of jobs that pay much more reliably, better and require less effort.

Though again, keep in mind I'm writing it from the perspective of someone who finds it easy to spark the passion again or go through tricky moments and I'm not advocating for "wait until you're inspired, bro - even if it takes weeks and months". I just don't think it should be that hard if you're a writer and actually have a story to tell.

I have an idea for a story about some future society in which the main role of police officers is to provide entertainment to the people by violently executing criminals. For example if a drunkard was causing a disturbance in public, instead of taking him to jail to sober up the police would beat him to death for the delight of the crowd. Does this sound like a stupid idea? Violence is a theme a very much want to explore.

>>16356697
There are examples, yes, but those people are generally already successful and don't need to publish regularly to make a living. GRRM can get away with taking a decade to publish a book because he already has more cash than he could reasonably spend.

Also, every career is a chore. That's kinda the point of it. You're not going to feel like writing every day, or even every week, but if you want to "make it" you definitely need to. Of course there are jobs that pay better and require far less effort, but if you want to be a reader you have to take the industry as it is.

I also agree with you that someone who's actually meant to be a writer shouldn't have a hard time writing a story, but there are definitely times in every writer's life where they just don't feel like righting. And you have to push through that and not think of it as some mental block

>>16356727
It sounds very on the nose. And it's not really idea about a story but a world-building gimmick. What's the actual story, is the protagonist a cop who beats up drunkards?

>>16356730
>And you have to push through that and not think of it as some mental block
I mean, yeah, definitely. Think we disagree more on how to push through it than that it needs to be done.

The usual brute-force method just sounds suboptimal. A writer should be able to analyze WHY the even struggle to write on and amend that instead of just forcing through IMO.

>>16356727
It's not science fiction when we already do that.

>>16356777
I’m very good at coming up with something that sounds cool for my story but have trouble with making an interesting plot. I had imagined the main character would be one of these officers.

>>16356830
Nah, the plot revolves around a famous drunkard who notoriously evades the police and the cameras. It'll be like drunken master, but about a very selfish guy who evades police brutality and the world around him who knows about him, hope that he gets his shit kicked, but he just wants to drink. His only friends are the filthy rebellious types who despise the commodification of life events and hate the cops.

I don't understand the "writer's block doesn't exist" mentality. Can someone explain it to me?

>>16356869
its literally all just a spook desu senpai

>>16356868
Holy based...

>>16356868
Now that sounds decent.

>>16356869
What is it supposed to be? If you can't write, something is stopping you from it. Why would you just jump to "writers block yo" instead of looking for the actual reasons?

Imagine how silly it'd sound when applied to something else. "No, I can't go to work today, I have a work block." "Asking out the chick? Yeah, sounds like a good idea but I have a dating block for the last year." "N-no, you don't understand. I'm not impotent, it's just dick block."

>>16356869
Fundamentally writers block is a self judgement. It's not
>I can't write anything
it's actually
>I can't write anything GOOD right now.
Because writing is a habit and a skill just as much as any other creative field, the practice of writing every day as someone would work out or meditate daily is and should be the norm. Even if what you are writing for that day is something as bad as
>Fred was red. Red was fred. Fred went to buy some bread. Bread was begot by fred, fred then ate the bread. Fred was happy for a single moment when he ate the bread, but now the sorrow is back and he is no longer red.
Or whatever stupid shit gets thrown onto the page. It doesn't have to be GOOD it just has to exist, simply as an exercise. You don't know if what you wrote was "good" or not until further down the line. What if the Fred line I just wrote was actually something that one of my characters wrote while extremely intoxicated and the character wanted to be a singer and thought those would be good lyrics while they were puking their guts out with a friend holding their hair over the toilet? That would be a pretty funny or interesting scene. But I wouldn't know that until after the fact. There are many ways to skin cats. You do not always have to be writing the next part of the next thing of the next chapter to your 12 part epic novel. You just need to write. Write one thing and the next day when the first becomes hard write something else, or just write an outline of it, or write a poem. You just gotta write. Or perhaps go back and edit something you already wrote. You can always turn shit into a polished turd, and most books are glorious moments of insight surrounded by polished turds and most people cant tell the difference.

>>16356904
>>16356918
so either you're lying out your ass and probably dont even write, or you're just such a narcissist that you've never second-guessed anything in your life.

>>16356922
this I can understand

>>16356933
>you've never second-guessed anything in your life.
Bitch, please. I second-guess my second-guessing over not second-guessing myself enough.

How is that an excuse not to write? The story won't continue by itself and just having it in my head or as an outline isn't enough.

>>16356933
I won't deny I thought I had writers block for the good part of the 2010s' before i got off my ass and started writing in october 2019. I managed to gain enough confidence that I managed to do a major rewrite and get to where I am now

>>16356984
and you're telling me you've never sat down, struggled for five minutes to put assemble words into something bearable, typed out one sentence, struggled for another five more minutes to add something appropriate onto that, deleted the original sentence and then repeated the process for an hour?

>>16357037
"GOTTA HUSTLE TO MAKE THAT BREAD, MANG," he screamed in my ear. "I CAN'T STAND WRITERS WHO DON'T WRITE."

I stood there, with my pants to my ankles, reading his reply to my initial post. I had finished urinating for literal seconds since I had read this. Small droplets hit the urinal. People started staring at my extremely flat and pale ass.

I was once told my ass was so flat a friend could see my asshole through my swim trunks. I hadn't thought much a reply at that point, but I contemplated telling him the story about the swim trunks. Then I saw it. I had to identify stop signs to prove I'm not a robot. I just couldn't do it anymore. I pulled up my pants and went back to my seat to finish watching Cars 2. Defeated and silently crying.

>>16357067
>struggled for five minutes to put assemble words into something bearable
Try five hours.
>typed out one sentence, struggled for another five more minutes to add something appropriate onto that
And another five hours. I wasn't joking with the self-doubt shit.
>deleted the original sentence and then repeated the process for an hour?
Eh, I generally only delete stuff once I have a better version. Until then it stays there. Maybe I'll start a new but will always keep the old version, so at least I know what didn't work. (But it can get messy of course, so not even sure if I'd suggest to do it)

Hell, just two months ago this was pretty much the scenario I've been when doing the 8th revision of a novel that's basically complete. Spent about a week on the first two (small paragraphs) before it took off.

Just I wouldn't call it "writers block". It was a mix of my own faggotory and expectations, not some "mythical force" that kept me from advancing. Also obviously lazyness to write out all the potential sentences, plus the fear of changing too much.

Can't say there was some moment when it clicked in the end. I just annoyed myself into thinking differently.

So far my novel has been on hold for months (and before that years) but the good thing is that because it's mostly dialogue I've been saving my try hard effort posts on /lit/ and will be incorporating them into the work. So I guess I'm not really writing, but sometimes... I'm writing.

>>16357067
Anon, I regularly delete entire pages because it doesn't end up how I want it, or I figure out a better way to write it. That's just part of the process

>wrote 1400 words today
The power... it courses through me...

>>16357380
Nice, anon. Keep it up tomorrow. I haven't written anything yet today since I've been doing a lot of reading, but I'm going to try to get 1000 done before I go to bed

God damn I always get immediately horny when describing a main girl

>>16348192
I'm 17 and in my junior year of high school. I'm pretty bad at writing, and I'd consider myself okay at reading although I think my skills are a bit fucked up. With special regards to reading, it's not that I'm special ed, but more that I can't read critically to pick up writing skills since I can read at a decently high level.

Anons, is it possible for me to fix up my writing before college? I've been reading economics and I want to get into this shit.

>>16357443
Then you're doing a great job. Or should take a wank break and see if you're still getting horny.

What is a good list/book of writing prompts for short stories I can pirate?
I need one to use the prompts for a comic I want to draw and write using the Marvel method.

>>16357448
God damn you are so young my little summer child. I'm more than a decade older than you. How I wish I had all the time back. There is plenty of time to improve your writing. Generally speaking, one of the hallmarks of undergraduate students for the past hundred years is that they are all absolutely abysmal at writing anything. I was the same way when I was younger. That's also one of the problems with law schools. You have an entire field dedicated to writing but you let engineers and bankers in? Crazy.

Anyway, continue reading at a good pace. Break out some ol' grammar books. The classics I can remember are something like On Style or something like that. Always a good little refresh of the fundamentals. Then you'll want to determine what formatting style your major generally writes in apa, Chicago Ap, Blue Book, etc. Devour those rules. Simply knowing the procedure on how to format things will score you a passing grade in undergrad, and everything after that is just bonus points on top.

If you want to improve your actual content, that's just more practice and exchanging reviewing edits with other people. Practice editing for mistakes, find a flow that works for you. Be critical of your work in a productive way, don't just toss everything out.

On the first try, you learn how something happens.
On the second try, you learn how something works.
On the third try, you learn why something is.

Or some bullshit like that. PRACTICE MORE.

>>16348311
i like big titty goth gf green lantern and ninja panda

Fuck writing is hard, I'll try to draw instead

>>16357597
I suggest Drawing with the Right Side of the Brain. It does a good job forcing you to do examples that make you look at the world in a slightly different more color/shape/shade orientation than seeing the actual objects and symbols we generally do.

>>16356869
There’s a lot of “be yourself” style writing advice floating around. I imagine the people who say writer’s block doesn’t exist are just getting started in the craft, and for them it’s like the first few weeks of starting a workout routine where you feel all energized and pumped and can’t wait to get in the gym every day etc etc.
If you’ve been doing it for a while it’s just a chore that you sometimes have to force yourself through and sometimes the energy just isn’t there and trying to force your way through it will only feel more demoralizing and create a negative feedback loop. Personally when I can’t come up with any good fiction I just pass the time posting on 4chan and soon enough I’ll be writing a post which strikes me as a good idea for a short story and I’ll get back to it. /x/ is a really good board for inspiration because they’ll believe anything which gives you a lot of room for inspiration unlike certain boards which have a boner for calling out fakers.

>>16357448
>I'm 17
im not going to report you, but dude. Get off this site. you're going to ruin your brain.

"The first draft of everything is shit."
I don't know if this is exactly true but I find solace in this statement. I'm writing a highly esoteric, abstract book, and at times even I go cross-eyed upon rereading what I previously wrote. If you don't even understand what you wrote, you're dead in the water.
But then I remind myself that writing comes in stages. The first stage is rough and untidy. It's the generative phase. You're just unspooling the ideas in an unrefined form, to be chiseled and sharpened into cut gems later. It can nevertheless be discouraging to see tumorous run-on sentences and other blemishes defacing the most pure and naked rendition of your pride and joy.

Is it ever a good idea to write all your ideas regarding a story and save it for later?
I have several story ideas with extensive development all in my head and I never set aside any time to write them down.

Weirdly enough, whenever I start thinking of them again after a while I can feel as if I can easily improve on concepts, characters, themes, etc.

>>16357864
Generally speaking if you're writing something, anything down, you're doing good. That's the whole point.

I should've just realized being a compsci student with a lot of project taking large portion of time isn't suitable if I want to make a good book

I just found a novel on RR that is a staggering 4.6k pages long. I am astounded. I've read insanely long Chinese novels with hundreds of characters, and none of them reach anywhere near that amount of sheer girth. It better not be from one of you

>>16357790
>If you’ve been doing it for a while it’s just a chore that you sometimes have to force yourself through and sometimes the energy just isn’t there and trying to force your way through it will only feel more demoralizing and create a negative feedback loop.

How did you even get through basic education with an attitude like that? Being able to motivate yourself to work is one of the key characteristics of an independent, functional adult. Writing is not only some divinely inspired magic that gods and devils pour into your head, it's a very technical, physical craft. If you're relying solely on muh feelings to carry you, then of course you're not getting anywhere. Feelings come and go. And being at the mercy of random whims is simply inexperience.

>unlike certain boards which have a boner for calling out fakers.
Whoa, bitter much? Get over it jimbo

>>16358021
Nah, I'm only at about 2.3k pages at the moment

>>16358021
You think those whiny shit who can't go a day without lamenting their writer block on /lit/ have that amount of dedication?

>>16358092
No, but the author is a self-professed schizophrenic, and it shows, so I thought that there was at least a slight chance it was one of you

Weird question but does anyone know what kind of movies are released on each season?
I had this concept for a comic and I wanted to make it so that each part has a tone corresponding of each movie season but I've always been kind of an airhead when it comes to both dates and movies.

So far, I know that summer is blockbuster season and winter is Oscar-bait season but what goes on fall and spring? I'd ask /tv/ but, you know, it's /tv/.

>>16358114
>the author is a self-professed schizophrenic
link pls

>>16358138
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/5290/forging-his-own-destiny/chapter/390413/before-you-start-reading

I've been mesmerized for the past half hour while reading his author's notes. It's astonishing to me that the guy keeps mentioning being an ESL after having written far more pages of English fiction than most people will in their entire lifetime. I nearly fell out of my chair when I read that he had his entire story, with multiple variations based on poll choices, figured out four years ago

>>16358021
4.6k times 500 divided by wpm of 80 divided by 60 divided by 24


That would take me twenty days typing at full speed non stop. Jesus fucking Christ.

>>16358178
>that intro
lmao

This reminded me, weren't the longest pieces of fiction known to man as it stands now a Smash Bros fanfic and another fanfic about Sonic having sex with all kinds of characters?

>>16358199
Those are both very long, but no. There's a Wuxia novel by Huang Yi, called The Legend of the Twin Dragons of the Tang Dynasty. It's over 50,000,000 characters long, across 63 volumes

can I get some feedback?
https://www.inkitt.com/stories/fantasy/397771

Ive submitted to a few agents and one wanted to read more, but nothing ended up coming from it.

>>16358236
>It's over 50,000,000 characters long
Wow, did he include everybody from his home town in the story?

>>16358253
Kek. I wish I could read Chinese so I could figure out just how many actual characters he crammed into a book of that size

>>16358250
I wouldn't feel confident giving any feedback, but thanks for posting, the prologue was interesting and I could see myself wanting to read more. Good luck with the submissions.

Looking for some anon feedback.
https://www.inkitt.com/stories/fantasy/397771
It's a historical fiction about a bakers apprentice that goes undercover in a rebel group to find her missing brother.
I've submitted it to agents and one asked to read more, but nothing came of it. Looking to start submitting again.

>>16358250
I read the prologue, and it seemed alright. Definitely left me wanting more. A couple descriptions may be a little much, but nothing struck me as bad. I have no idea what agents are looking for when it comes to YA fantasy novels though, so I can't really offer you any advice

>>16358288
>>16358295
sorry i deleted my post and then reposted.
thanks for giving it a go, I really appreciate it.

>>16348308
Tibetan, Maori/Fijian, Mayan, Byzantine. Basically just an excuse to put unique spins on Chinese, Hawaiian, Aztec and Roman.

>>16348200
try reading your prose aloud, it should help you sort out the rhythm. use text to speech readers and that should help too

>>16350798
How niche do you have to be to find an indie publisher?

>>16356069
What E-Book stores are worthwhile in your learned opinion?

>>16356727
I reckon you could make it work with some sci fi magic. How about the police wear high tech helmets which cover their faces to make them anonymous like executioners, while also giving the ability to phone an e-court which can decide innocence and guilt in a matter of seconds?

>>16356069
i promote my stuff via facebook.
If I was you I'd start a horror related facebook page and feed it content, and then share stuff from an author page about your book. Thats how I advertised selling my art for the past few years. you provide the people with content they can share, and slip in some self promo every now and then. i can give you more details if you wanna discuss it

Gonna finish up and post my fanfiction. It's about 70% done when I dropped it about 5 months ago. Gonna probably be the last fanfic I make.

>>16356727
>For example if a drunkard was causing a disturbance in public, instead of taking him to jail to sober up the police would beat him to death for the delight of the crowd.
That doesn't sound very entertaining. Why don't they tie a wire around his neck and drag him along streets after a motorcycle, before landing him on an impact attenuator with a bang, sending his decapitated, blood-spraying head spinning over nearby houses?

>>16358419
Because motorcycle drivers deserve a more cruel death than any loud drunkard.

>>16348308
When I run into these sorts of problems, I typically write a few paragraphs from the perspective of each race. Changing prose for each race/person typically does the trick for me. The other replies are valid as well.

>>16348431
Have the end planned out. Sometimes I think about literature from a musical perspective. Though its a little clique, all progressions in classical music build tension - this is resolved by the final chord (most of the time). Books can be the same way.

>>16348561 Depressing shit. Makes me feel better though. I normally write a line and then paragraph. Sorta looks like poetry, but bad.

>>16348748
Always decide the ending before you start. If I were in this predicament, id scrap it. Do what you want and call and end to it, move to the next story.

>>16349072
Death is a common occurrence in literature. The context for it is of the upmost importance, so it depends on the buildup. So sure, go ahead, just make sure that it's harmonious with the context.

>>16349103
I literally cannot remember dreams. Maybe an acid trip?

>>16348587
The fuck is a Psued? I'm new to lit

>>16351154
Just write, even if its pure garbage. In fact, if you find yourself following an Idea, come to terms with the reality that it could end up garbage.

>>16351527
When its written by me.

>>16356450
This is a correct response to this >>16356105

>>16356922
based

>>16359325
Thank you

I've got this idea of writing a cyberpunk / sci-fi / crude story set in my country.

With all this covid19 and shit the situation reflects into my vision much more, I don't know if I should or shouldn't include real cities names tho.

>>16358337
libgen

>>16359421
I don't know if I should or shouldn't include real cities names though
Why would it matter?

>>16358290
I generally focus only on the negatives so everything I DON'T mention is fine, or at least didn't stood out. Also just my opinions yo. With that out of the way...

The title is very good. The summary is decent too, although I wish it had a word or two more about her personality. But hey, it made me want to read it.

>Prologue
Feels way too rushed. In media res is fine and good but without establishing why the fuck I would care about any of the stuff happening or knowing any of the characters ... it just doesn't work. I'm not even exactly sure WHAT is happening beyond the group stealing shit from the protagonist's daddy, and there was nothing that made me want to find out more. The writing itself was decent enough though, sans a thing here and there; but can't copy-paste specifics, so will keep it general. I'd either seriously expand it or cut the entire thing out.

Tbqh, it's what I expected from the get go. Having a prologue felt misplaced given the summary. I came here for the baker chick, not some domestic heist shit from another character. (Her brother?)

>Chapter One
Much, much better. Though I wish there was more about her thoughts before or right after the guy comes, to get a better feel for who Laten is. Kinda weird but cool name too.

The voices of the characters in dialogue could be more distinct. And the main problem during it ... well, could be a bit bigger, since there wasn't much tension. The transitions between scenes feel bit too cut of. When it reached the announcement, things got a little too cliche with the "hang the treasoners" stuff and the likes. The twist was cool but felt a bit too constructed and something of a movie, when the protagonists gets found inside a huge crowd just like that.

Basically very decent with some bright spots and some clunkiness. Made me want to read the next one, so main job accomplished.

>Chapter Two
Well, the walk through the dungeon felt rushed and detached. Kinda like being a bystander instead the person who got captured and doesn't even know why.

Also yikes, it was her brother. This makes the prologue even worse, since it takes away any surprise and tension, her asking for him could have. Her giving Beardy a nickname was a cool touch though.

In the cell, there is a bit too much external action vs internal reaction. Give the girl time to be hopeful, then crush the hopes, slowly. The apprentices stuff felt very rushed too. Give the mystery time. Let Laten think, feel and asses things. Also you could've make them easier to discern by describing their voices instead of throwing names at the reader. The bit about the man's insanity floating through the air was cool.

Aww, hoped there would be fun times with the girl at the desk. Overall solid but predictable and could use fine-tuning. Also hope Lady Harper isn't just some Disney antagonist. Makes me want to read the next chapter, so job done again

>Looking to start submitting again.
Are there even agents who accept published stuff?

>>16359461
I mean, it's fiction so. If I turn a sprawling city in the north of the country into a zaibatsu controlled "heaven", I don't think it will matter huh?

Also I'm thinking about writing the draft in English, cause my language is way too complex gramatically speaking. I have a better time translating from English than writing in my mother language.

What book made you pick up writing?

>>16359576
The Hobbit. I didn't even like it but the sense of adventure and comfyness made me want to transport readers into other worlds too.

And then I realized that fantasy was a dumb meme.

>he uses semicolons in his posts on 4chan
Wanna guess how I know your writing is shit?

>>16359631
Posting on 4chains is a decent enough hint.

>>16359631
There isn't anything wrong with using a semicolon; sometimes they are needed.

>>16359862
Not on 4chan. You look like a pseud.

>>16360181
>caring about how you look on an anonymous weeaboo forum

>>16359473
>In media res

Why does everyone throwing this term around misspell it? It's "in medias res". Not in "plural medium", but in the "middle". If you're gonna be a pseud throwing around latin, at least do it properly.

>>16356069
https://www.amazon.com/s?i=digital-text&rh=p_27%3AF.+Gardner&s=relevancerank&text=F.+Gardner&ref=dp_byline_sr_ebooks_1

Here are some of my books, for those interested in giving feedback. There should be previews of the first couple chapters.

>>16360406
I like the fact that they all have continuity in their covers, but the video game cover doesn't really have an "image" with it. It's just more text. I'd suggest a full on arcade cabinet. Also, did you really release three of them on the same day and another three days later? I'd highly suggest spacing them out so it gives the algorithm some time. Also when you hit "look inside" the first paragraph isn't indented and you rely heavily on ellipsis. Also your blurb is rather dull. I get that it's the "here's the set up" but I feel like there would be a better way to set things up than that. Go read a bunch of the top horror novel blurbs.

>>16360450
>>16360406
Also do you have a website? Do you have an email list at the end? Do you have any extra cash to target facebook or amazon ads? How much content are you churning out on a weekly basis? Do you have anyone actually editing your work? Do you revise it at all? What's the average word count for the genre and what's your average word count? When you look at other horror novels, what things stand out as good to you? Why do you think they are successful. Have you bundled your short stories together?

>>16360450
Yeah, I was trying to make sure the covers were consistent. I already had the first three heavily edited, so I wanted to get them out soon, since it's close to the Halloween season. Maybe I should have waited. I don't know. We'll see. I appreciate the advice, I'll try to tweak things to make them as high quality as can be.

Yeah, I have a website. I also have a facebook ad going, and looking to see what else I can put out.
As for my word count's, they're 40K at the lowest and 51K at the highest.

>>16360181
>>16360347
>find "pseud"
>7 hits

Is this going to be the new cuck, simp, incel, shit insult that gets over used to the point of no meaning?

>>16360805
>the new
Lurk a million years

>>16360181
>>16360805
What does it mean though? Pseudonym? Looser? My monkey brain can't grapple the meaning

>>16361099
>>16359325
pseudo-intellectual

basically means you only put up the appearance of being smart/well-read/educated with nothing to back it up
also known as the dunning-kruger effect, unwarranted sense of self importance, narcissism combined with ignorance, or just being a teenager

>>16360805
>new
where have you been? pseud has been rampant on this board for years

>>16362179
I only just learnt to read.

You guys better be getting some good writing done today. I don't want to hear anymore excuses

>>16348482
I've been keeping tabs on small magazines or publishing houses that do poetry chapbooks - usually 20-30 poems in a small booklet with a soft card cover - try that, and look out for placements on blogs or journals either as a one-off submission, or as a weekly/monthly placement if you think your poetry is good enough.
Also look out for competitions, cash-prize, chapbook or not, it gets your name out there.

I'm currently beginning a 'bestiary' anthology and have been producing off the cuff poems for a few months, but have been more rapidly as of late.
If "pop poetry" is what i think you mean, check out the laureate Simon Armitage, his stuff is purportedly quite down-to-earth and 'casual', and ofc has done extremely well for him

>>16362587
Does shitposting count as writing?

>>16350469
practice

>>16362635
If I don't see you getting some actual writing done within the next hour, I swear I'm gonna tan your hide son

How do I get better with show not tell?

>>16363199
You show how you don't understand toilets and drone on about how great Modi is instead of writing that you're Indian.

>>16363199
Telling is only bad when it's endless, unenjoyable, unnecessary, monotonous exposition.

If you can't convey information to the reader in an engaging manner? Work on your prose, stop being a shit writer.

>>16363251
>only bad when it's endless, unenjoyable, unnecessary, monotonous exposition
this may sound pedantic, but how does one gauge whether or not my writing becomes one of these

>>16362866
>Open down to the rotten sound,
>She cast a glance at him.
>He mistook her for a bloated sow,
>Soon after farrowing.
>She caught her breath, and exhaled at once,
>To try and catch his eye.
>But he continued on, unaware when she began to cry.


I don't know. It's shit. It has no 'pitter patter'.
I don't understand poetry, I wish I did.
You put me on the spot!

>>16363281
Read it like you would read anything else. Print it out if it's easier for you to disconnect with your writer self. Maybe read it aloud, or have someone else read it to you.

>>16363281
Experience. Do you enjoy reading it yourself? In some sense, that's all you need. Also this: >>16363294

Read more, compare your writing to what you enjoy reading - spot the differences.

>>16363286
Hey, it's not terrible anon. It has a nice flow to it

I want to know of good... writing resources!

>>16348482
Yes, I'm published in Poetry London.

It's very unlikely just as a numbers game, which is why you should submit to as many places (that are quality or that you respect) as you can. I've always had a certain bar where I won't submit to tiny or hip publications or blogs even though they're easier to get published in, because they don't really mean anything, and it paid off with my stuff getting selected at a prominent place.

Sounds like you should keep reading a lot more and also read contemporary stuff to at least know the lay of the land. Not that you should write to trends but you should have a feel for what's out there - no need for expensive subscriptions if you can't afford it. Back issues of Paris Review and Poetry magazine and the like are widely available a year or so behind, and you don't need to be right on the edge of what got published last month.

Use Submittable to track and see what publications have their submission periods when, set reminders in your phone that recur every year or season as they're needed, and submit to the individual poem contests that you can afford from decent publications. You really shouldn't bother with manuscript contests or submissions until you have multiple poems published (that will be included in the same manuscript) but hey, if the fees aren't an issue I say go for it.

>>16348308
Make one just actually niggers, then when people catch on in decades, laugh as people try to debate whether or not you were racist.

I have 30 pages of vignettes written and I want the book to be all across one night in one place. Every time I go to write now I get overwhelmed with needing to fix continuity or trying to build on something else or trying to be witty when intertwining them. I’ve also been so on and off with the project that I have to reread it all before I start again and that’s when the paralysis kicks in. Before I started getting these big ideas about what the book could be it was fun to just write a few pages of an interesting interaction of characters or incorporate some post I’ve made into a rant by a character, but now I just can’t. I don’t know what to do.

>>16364616
Writing, like art in general, takes on a life of its own apart from the author.not everything needs to connect perfectly.the reader will fill in the blanks

>>16350838
>mostly white

>>16351718
How do you know if your writing is honest. I'm afraid if I try to be honest it will sound like pseud shit because I'm not mentally pure like a child anymore and my head is full of dumb shit I think is meaningful but probably isn't

>>16364691
>my head is full of dumb shit I think is meaningful but probably isn't
Yeah, so? If it's meaningful to you, you should write about THAT instead of shit you think is meaningful for others. And yeah, it might be actually dumb but being wrong is only human.

Is it bad if all my characters are white? I just don't want to add people of other races.

>>16364737
no one gives a shit. just dont allude to any races and youll be fine.

>>16364737
Bad if you're trying to get a literary agent.

>>16364742
But I like to draw the characters and you can see they aren't brown. Someone might find my art blog and discover they're all white and cancel me.

>>16364643
But if I don’t do it right, then it’ll just be sloppy. I know that everything under the sun can be fixed in editing something, but I don’t really know how to explain it other than a paralyzing anxiety overcomes me. A hard mental aversion to doing it. Its not writers block, I’ve written other things, it’s writers block with this story in particular.

>>16364751
no one is going to cancel you. stop worrying about this shit. your brain has been poisoned by online politics

>>16364737
Bad as in how?

If the story isn't in a rural Finish village in the middle ages, it takes away authenticity. It slightly lowers appeal for potential readers. It makes you look like a sheltered white kid. The subtext isn't great either unless you aim at /pol/tards.

>>16348308
Go look into MBTI and make the four races out of the combinations of Entp/Intp, Estj/Istj, Enfj/Infj. Esfp/Isfp respectively.

It's irrelevant whether the 16 types are a good personality theory or not, the point is that they are categories of qualities and produce clear archetypes.

>>16364751
can i see your art btw

Anyone applying to MFAs this cycle? Or attended in the past. Interested in poetry mostly.

>>16364788
>a rural Finish village in the middle ages is the only place where there has ever been majority white
I don't get this "authenticity" thing. Especially if there aren't a fuckton of characters to begin with. People in stories don't usually exist as some perfect harmony of statistics. No one would call it unrealistic to have an all black cast in a half white city.

>>16364824
It's not about majority white but purely white, and that's just rare in modern settings unless it's some rural country club, or maybe some East Euro shithole.
>People in stories don't usually exist as some perfect harmony of statistics.
Yeah, then there would be far more faggots in stories. But authenticity isn't about replicating statistics, just the feel. A somehow modern setting that isn't in bumfuckwhere is just unlikely to have zero non-whites … unless it's the point of the story or a very specific setting with a very small cast.
>No one would call it unrealistic to have an all black cast in a half white city.
If they never interact with any crackers ever? Obviously it'd be. If there is no major white character? Sure. No clue how anon meant "all my characters are white" specifically.

>>16357491
>>16358132
academics pls

>>16364888
You sound pretty sheltered if you think there's hardly anywhere in the modern world that's majority white, or that there isn't still a lot of informal racial segregation in social interactions that makes single-race casts not terribly unrealistic in quite a few cases. Do you think white people only exist in large numbers at country clubs what the fuck lol. If a book only has a few major characters. are you supposed to make one a token minority or do you just take every opportunity to exclaim that random background characters are non-white just so no one gets confused?

I enjoy drawing more than writing, but I can't browse /ic/ so I'd rather get my feedback from this board instead

>>16364926
>I can't browse /ic/
Why not?

>>16364923
>hardly anywhere
That's not quite what was said.
>informal racial segregation in social interactions that makes single-race casts not terribly unrealistic
Sure but then the author chooses to roll with that for some reason and we get the interesting implications.
>are you supposed to make one a token minority or do you just take every opportunity to exclaim that random background characters are non-white just so no one gets confused?
You are not supposed to do anything. You're free to do whatever you want to, and should write a story based on what you want. Then, once (if) there is an audience, they are free to perceive and judge it however they want.

>>16364986
>interesting implications
Such as?

>>16364926
Post art? Maybe commission maybe? Haha?

>>16364926
I enjoy drawing more than writing but I'm even worse at drawing than I am at writing

should I write my entire story in iambic pentameter?

>>16365050
Only if it's a long poem or almost entirely dialogue, otherwise it's gay

>>16365054
What if only all the dialogue is in Iambic pentameter

>>16365012
How blind to racism our sheltered white protagonist is. Or maybe how based informal segregation is. Hard to tell without seeing the story.

>>16364772
Part of becoming a good writer is evolving upon your previous work.also think about asking a girl out; for many it is paralyzing but each time thereafter becomes easier.same with writing

>>16364978
yellow board lol, also when it comes to drawing on anonymous boards i hate it when people just straight up making porns to snatch attention.

>>16365020
soon, maybe later. during my art session, I like to add some captions to support my image, or when I find it difficult to explain it in words I will make it into an image

>>16365092
Drawing nudes is easier than coming up with clothes tbqh.

>>16364822
I'm taking a break from academics since most schools in my area are primarily virtual right now. Don't feel like paying the same price for online classes

>>16365144
Good move. Part of me thinks the whole covid thing was a manufactured crisis so that corporations could slash operating costs by making a giant shift toward remote work. Everything's shittier remote.

>>16365144
>most schools in my area are primarily virtual right now
yea you tell me. I really should've sat this semester off. These gay ass online zoom classes are fucking killing me. I hate this shit so much. I feel so fucking awkward.

>>16365179
I had to deal with that shit while being homeschooled and taking online classes during highschool since my family was constantly moving around. Didn't feel like dealing with it again for college

>>16365168
>kill the economy to introduce remote work even though most workers want remote work
Genius move.

>>16365179
I don't get zoomers. If online classes was an option back in the day, I might have not skipped school or uni so often. Getting the material without wasting time for commuting and wasting effort pretending to pay attention is a blessing. One can just record the shit and watch it at 2x speed later.

Though obviously paying full price for it is a sick joke. As is paying for education.

>>16365203
Yeah II wouldn't mind online classes if I were paying a reduced price. I really hope the education bubble bursts soon so we can stop paying ridiculous prices for degrees that have only diminished in value

>>16365203
>I don't get zoomers. If online classes was an option back in the day, I might have not skipped school or uni so often. Getting the material without wasting time for commuting and wasting effort pretending to pay attention is a blessing. One can just record the shit and watch it at 2x speed later.
I like attending classes. I get to go to campus, maybe make some friends. Stare at girl's asses and chill out and get free books at the school library. I cant do that at home.

>>16365267
You can do all that without going to class or even being enrolled.

>>16365324
Based.

And socializing in college always felt so limited either way. The kids were still the same awkward fucks as they were back in school. Meanwhile at work, most will share their life story, dreams and fears during a smoke break.

>>16365168
Forcing everyone to work remotely kills all the secondary businesses that rely on office workers. Eventually it would trickle back up to wall street if this caused broad closures of restaurants and other service industry businesses.

would including the occasional footnote to some obscure historical custom being seen as 'a bit gay'?

>>16365570
Is it fiction or nonfiction
>>16365203
Yeah, it's great not having to listen to long, droning lectures. I can watch at 2x speed and skip tangents to get the important bits. I kinda miss the illusion of being social but I never did more than small chat with people and look at cute girls anyway.

>>16365570
It’s completely driven by context and expectations you set up for the audience. Are you fucking David Foster Wallace? Then fuck yeah. Are you 80 pages in and haven’t had a single footnote or end note? Fuck no. Is it non fiction? Fuck yeah. Do you use lots of sources? Fuck yeah.

>>16365570
I started reading The Hunchback of Notre-dame recently, and every sentence has 100 * footnotes, it's incredibly unenjoyable to read.

>>16359473
its not published, its just posted on a website for writing. i find it cleaner than using a google doc to share
thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it.

>>16365203
>Genius move.
From the perspective of an investor with huge stakes in the highly profitable digital sector, it is in fact a genius move. These people and their profits are completely dissociated from the real economy and all the brown people put out of work by the pandemic.
>>16365379
Wrong, wall street is putting everything into digital. Look at how much Amazon's stock has jumped. Those secondary businesses are low margin. The stock market doesn't care about the real economy and doesn't track it.

>>16365203
I like having my classes online but also in all the classes they make you do these online group discussions which stress me out more than real group discussions. They lock you in a video chat room with a couple strangers and there's awkward silence for awhile every time.

>>16348398
the second from the right? I caught that too.

>>16348192
I'm planning to write a book/ manga with the following core idea:

>In some bumfuck East Asian/European country
>to tackle the problem of proliferation of apathy and the crisis of responsibility, a government mandated orphanage will be assigned to every 20-50 houses and every individual above the age of 15 (the ceiling age of the orphanages) of each house is required by law to take care of the orphans
>A schedule will be assigned to each individual.
>If the children's emotional needs are not being met, the entire batch of care takers will be put to jail/questioned sort of like tax-evasion.
>The orphanage has their own government fund, but each family can personally donate to their assigned orphanage.
>They can even personally adopt the little buggers.

What are the obvious cons of this system? I want to create a total exploration of this and I don't want it to be all sunshine and rainbows.
The story will be set at probably about 10-20 years after the implementation, everyone has pretty much culturally gotten used to it.
It's probably a bit autistic, but I think I can make it okay.

>>16368435
>What are the obvious cons of this system?
Maybe the HOW it gets assigned. Obviously it only makes sense to give this duty to richfags but someone in the position to assign it, could have connection with some rival family, they could dump extra work on the others.

But then again, if it gets only assigned to richfags, they could just take care of the shit with a nanny. If poorfags get involved in the draw, it'd be too much of a drain on their limited resources and things would go to shit fast.

>>16368435
>to tackle the problem of proliferation of apathy and the crisis of responsibility, a government mandated orphanage will be assigned to every 20-50 houses

What? Surely this would only make sense if there was a sudden orphan influx? I mean, unless the existing orphanages were fucking independent town size massive, this couldn't happen. Your dystopia also requires the invention of an enormous government aparatus of surveillance and inspection. Inspectors who live in houses which are themselves assigned orphans?

Anyway, read about the Romanian disabled kid orphanages in the nineties.

"Do something every day that you do not like to do, and avoid doing something every day that you would gladly have done. Do everything you are ordered to do immediately, without thinking about it. You must in order to become a real man. That is the secret of every great personality."

What is the meaning of this? I should just give in to all hardships in my life including being a slave of quarantine with my difficult parents, and not just be alone in my room happily doing my college assignments?

>>16368491
There are probably going to be some institutions located there for poorfags as well. It's not going to be ghetto-ridden fuckhole, the poorfags are nicer and more wholesome. Practically villages instead of slums. If the government were to take a more empathetic approach, assigning literal drug addicts to vulnerable children would probably be retarded.
The money problem is an interesting thing to tackle and the details of the assignation will be cool.
the specific individual is required to be there, so assigning a nanny would not be legally allowed, but it will probably happen anyways.

>>16368558
I don't think it's going to be a very heavy load on the government precisely because the amount of orphans would not be very big.
It's not a case of orphans increasing, therefore, large institutionalized orphanages will exist, it's more that there are a decent amount of orphans that are not being taken care of properly, there's an okay amount of vacant housing around the country, might as well use them to have a bit of a social experiment.
But those are very valid cons, I will need to think about it more.
And I've heard of those Romanian orphanages in passing. I will read more about them.

Probably a selected implementation would be more logical. 20-50 houses is the range or at least a pretty small community, but probably not all neighborhood will get them. The goal is, or at least the intention is to create tight-knit communities based on neighborly values while also providing a warm community for the orphans to have proper social development. I think there can be some cases where it is successful, but some cases where it will turn out pretty badly.

Teach me how to be preachy without coming off as preachy

Stupid Question, but;
'Pull a bullet through you' isn't correct, right?
I feel like I've heard it used before but after writing it down, it doesn't feel right.

>>16368868
Plant seeds. You can’t ever win an argument with someone and going on a Dostoevsky level rant isn’t going to change minds, that’s all ego. The only people that like that are the people that would already welcome whatever take is being given. The real rhetorical trick is to ingrain something in their mind that they become attached to so that at a later point they believe it was their own idea all along. The best preaching follows this path as their core message. All of rhetoric is simply a set of tools to achieve this goal. Even debates right? Everyone always talks about how debates are for the audience? Well it’s about planting in the minds of the audience, not the opponent. Even this post itself is doing the exact same thing. You aren’t going to be immediately convinced, but this idea will creep back up on you later.

>>16368939
When do people begin considering something as preachy?

>>16368435
Surely this would fuck up the orphans? Nobody really cares about them, not having a single caregiver but a rotation of random village people. And who determines whether the child's emotional needs are met? What if the child is mentally ill and hard to cope with? Is there anything to account for that or any potential lying from the child? Why would anyone personally adopt them with a system like this in place?
Seems like an awful system for both the children and the caretakers, can't see why it would be implemented over any other kind of care system.

>>16369322
When what the person is proselytizing doesn't appear to be coming from the same set of beliefs or facts that the listener bases their life on, but it is with a conviction that the speaker knows the whole truth and wouldn't accept any other point of view.

How would you guys feel if a story with a 3rd person narrator swapped to first person for a chapter to give you an intimate backstory

>>16369786
I'd feel as if the 3rd person narrator and the 1st person were the same person, we just didn't know that before.

>>16368280
They look pretty flat but I can't see signs of a bulge

>>16369786
American Psycho did the opposite of this for the reverse effect.

>>16369786
Nothing wrong with that, as long as it's executed well enough. I think I've read something that has done something like that, but can't recall what book it was.

>>16368920
It's put, not pull. Put a bullet through (someone/something). Pulling a bullet through someone is some interestingly fucked up imagery though.

>>16369808
that's what the skirt's for

>>16369786
Just do what old books do and put quote marks around the whole thing.

>>16369813
I read a book that did it as well, 400 pages into the story. It made me care deeply about an antagonist who I had been indifferent towards, so I've been considering trying to pull it off for the same effect

I am a random reader who has decided to pick up your book to see if it's worth the read. Will your first line peak my interest or will I shelf it?

>>16369854
You will shelf it

>>16369854
Don't even bother, anon

>>16369854
>The Legend of Korra and it's consequences has been a disaster for the human race.

>>16369854
It will, but you won't make it past the first chapter
the truth is, nobody wants to put in effort to read into something written by an amateur

>>16369854
Don't lie you didn't pick it up to begin with

>>16369875
That's not true. I'm reading a horrible mess of a novel for a review swap on RR right now

>>16369875
I've done it a few times. My experience with it has been that either the following chapters get a lot better in content and style, or they don't. I've seen both cases.

>>16369854
m-maybe...haha

>>16369854
Probably not.

>>16369898
>I'm reading a horrible mess of a novel for a review swap on RR right now
>review swap
That just speaks about your jewishness though.

>>16369936
Hey, you have to make use of every tool at your disposal if you want to make it. I've even made a couple friends while doing this over the past couple days

>>16369898
>review swap
>you write a few pages of critiques, stating what you liked about it, and where they could improve
>they write 'I enjoyed it 3/5'

You are getting swindled, friend.

>>16369948
I'm too autistic to get something like that started, so I just review and comment on things I like in the vain hope that somebody will return the favor
they never do

>>16369954
Yeah I got one of those earlier where the guy said I had flawless grammar but gave me a 3.5/5 in that category for no apparent reason, like he was just clicking randomly or something

>>16369954
>Does thios and doesn't even do Advanced Review so won't it actually contribute to trending

>>16369988
Don't worry, I'm working on an advanced review for you as we speak

I realized something today /wg/
I was so obsessed with making sure my world could actually exist, making sure to extrapolate all societal systems, to fully understand how society operates, so I could replicate it in my writing.
This was giving me trouble since I am a brainlet and people kinda confuse me, but then I realized, I can just make fantasy/sci-fi devices that extremely simplify the flowchart of society.

That and totalitarianism. How does food get into stores? The government food trucks, of course!

>>16370029
>anon comes to the conclusion that totalitarianism is for brainlets by brainlets
Nice.

Someone make a new thread before we slip farther into the murky depths of the catalog. I can nearly see R'lyeh from here

>>16370105
anyone that wants to post here knows to search /wg/
We are only on page 4.

>>16370146
Fair enough. I just get a little sad when the thread dies and the next one isn't posted for a while. This is the only thread I actually like on this board

>>16370179
Sounds like you could make a new one. Even choose your own picture... do it, faggot.

>>16370210
That is far too much responsibility for me

>>16370454
Nigga, you're a writer. What is some thread compared to a novel.

>>16369948
I can't do reviews, because I'd just shit all over the other work, and then they'd give me 0.5 stars in revenge, and everybody would just walk away feeling like shit

>>16369898
What the fuck is RR, I hate acronyms you can't google

>>16370476
I usually just pick stuff where I have something nice to say about it. Not all of it is completely terrible. They might have horrible grammar but decent characters, etc.

>>16370029
>I was so obsessed with making sure my world could actually exist, making sure to extrapolate all societal systems, to fully understand how society operates
This is boring and no one cares about it.

>>16370482
Royal Road. Sorry, I just assumed that everyone who frequents this thread is familiar with it

>>16370500
How can I expect a reader to believe my world is real when I cannot even?

>>16370509
You don't expect them to believe it's real because they don't because it's just a fucking book and your reader is probably not a paranoid schizophrenic. They willingly choose to pretend it's real because they want to. You don't need to create a perfect "real" system down to every detail for that, you just need to make it interesting, more or less consistent, and not do anything that would shake them out of their suspension of disbelief too hard.

>>16369898
>RR
Isekaifags fuck off.

>>16370509
>>16370519
In addition, the readers will fill in the blanks you don't provide. In fact, if you're so thorough there are zero blanks for imagination or interpretation, your book will probably be very tedious and boring because there is no mental work for the reader to do except memorizing the exact details of your world, and your book will read more like a very detailed rpg manual than a novel.

>>16370553
Why do you assume every anon posting on RR is isekaifag? There's a few of us not writing in the genre you know.

>>16370509
>real world
Your world is just meant to express something, just like anything else. You don't create it for it's own sake. Go beyond the surface-level understanding.
I'm sure you're familiar with Lovecraft, his world wasn't just random monsters - it was his fears, his personal impression of what the real world is like. It serves a purpose.

>>16370553
But I would never sink low enough to write isekai garbage, anon

>>16370567
>>16370576
Every genre is the same. Stop pandering. /lit/ is a literary board, not a board for hacks

>>16370519
>>16370555
>very detailed rpg manual
Damn, now that you say that, that is EXACTLY what I was doing without even realizing it.
Which makes sense, since I kinda like to imagine my stories as RPG adventures with pre-made characters, putting the reader into the headspace of the character, so their choices would be the same.
>>16370574
Is less really more though? Yeah having an encyclopedia of theoretical societies is boring, but if you strip it all away and just mention the stuff relevant to the plot without explaining, that could seem overwhelming IMO. If the reader doesn't know what to expect, then there are no stakes, because literally anything could happen.

>>16370580
Take your meds anon

>>16370574
This. Setting and world is meant to support your story, no matter how developed and important it is. Anything that doesn't express themes, develop character, further the plot, or give some other artistic significance beyond "realism", is unnecessary

>>16370586
The trick is giving the right information to form the illusion of a coherent world without overloading the reader with random trivia or boring infodumps. It's not easy but nothing is. Good luck anon.

>>16370580
>noooo you can't have fun writing and write an enjoyable story! You have to write something "literary" that nobody wants to read!!!

>>16370591
What if my setting is secretly the main character in a vaguely interconnected universe across multiple stories?
>>16370604
Yeah, true, I guess I am just obsessed with not seeming like I am making stuff up as I go. If I just bring up stuff as it comes naturally, and then there is some surprising revelation (to the reader) about how the world functions, they might wonder how that never came up before.

>>16370591
>Anything that doesn't express themes, develop character, further the plot, or give some other artistic significance beyond "realism", is unnecessary
Wrong. As long as you interest the reader, you can write whatever you want. You can have a hundred pages of people just fucking around if you want. Or, you can write the most to the point themes, plot and artistic significance - but bore everybody to death. Have more fun in your writing.

>>16370606
>enjoyable story!
If you want to entertain children, start a youtube channel instead. Anything, please, just not writing!

>>16370637
Why are you even in this thread?

I made a new thread with some, hopefully, helpful info.

>>16370685
>>16370685
>>16370685
>>16370685