/lit/ - Literature

>written by a gay guy

Yeah bro just like stop caring aboit things

>>16324001
Define any of those things.

>>16323970
I saw this in an airport so I decided never to read it. Anyone find that all those books on sale in airports look either like shit non fiction or terrible crime thriller?

>>16324011
Go blow yourself up, Achmed.

what is below it?

>>16324023
Mad cuz Muslims have values and culture?

>>16323970
Europistan rise up

>>16324049
Drinking camel piss and fucking your hairy cousin isn't culture Abdul.

>>16324049
Fuck off towelhead

Based Murray is right.

>>16324022
>Anyone find that all those books on sale in airports look either like shit non fiction or terrible crime thriller?
I've found some good cheap books there, Murray isn't shite, he just never goes in-depth enough for me to call his books great, but definitely not bad.

>>16324077
Why are euros so scared of defining values, tradition, and culture?

>>16324103
Jews

>>16324089
>he just never goes in-depth enough for me to call his books great
he just discusses the issues. what depth do you need?

>>16324106
Jews have all of those things though

>>16324118
The euro has been subverted by the jew to not be able to define his values, tradition, and culture because that's wrong. Mohammad is a German name now.

>>16324130
>my values and culture are superior to muslim and jew values
>reee jews and muslims made me forget what those are
Brutal

>>16324139
Define culture.

>>16324139
Read Spengler

>>16324146
I can’t cuz of jews
>>16324147
Reactionaries can’t into culture

I'd really appreciate it if one of you white boys could define the values of western civilization as it currently is. Or at least prove that it isn't liberalism.

>>16324152
>LOL YOU CAN'T DEFINE YOUR CULTURE'S VALUES
>NOOOO WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU DEFINED YOUR CULTURE'S VALUES? YOU ARE A REACTIONARY OPINION DISCARDED

>>16324156
As I said, read Spengler

>>16324011
many books written on all 3 read a book nigger

>euro culture is enabling other cultures over its own

Damn they do be kinda dyin strangely tho

>>16324130
What's really funny is when people think that their cultural values are actually universal human truths because they have been taught to think that they are devoid of cultural biases.
Like "human rights" or "democracy"

>>16324156
>the values of western civilization as it currently is
You can discover them by closely and comprehensively examining any major corporate office in the world today, or any popular website, since the entirety of urban life and the internet is Western.

>>16324166
This post is western culture. It’s over for Europe.

>>16324077
Its more than anything a white person will ever have

>>16324227
>It’s over for Europe.
the world*

>>16324240
That's eurocentric so I disagree.

>>16324245
The West controls the entire world. And this is why it has declined so much, lack of competition

It's pretty obvious that the West's current dominate philosophy is Liberalism. The fact that every western government is a liberal democracy and both the right and the left advocate for protection of liberal values in their own way.
Another example is that a fucking faggot like Murrey can write literature influential to the west's conservative thinkers and voters.
At the birth of western civilization (when it was still called Christendom) it was obviously Christianity, and until recently it was nationalism but since the victory of liberal democracy in WW2 and the Cold War it's clearly liberalism that rule the West.

>>16324255

>>16324255
I blame a bad economy and a lack of mystery.

>>16324257
Christianity brought the dark ages. It was in no way the womb of western civilization

>>16324258
China has destroyed their culture and replaced it with a WESTERN ideology

>>16324266
> Xi Jinping Thought on Socialism with Chinese characteristics for a New Era
>western
Lol

>>16324258
Look at what they're all wearing. Now tell me which ideology is dominant.

>>16324271
Define "Chinese characteristics"

>>16324275
>clothing is ideology
Read a book

>>16324265

>>16324257
Christianity, nationalism and now liberalism are just fads
>>16324279
Clothing is culture

>>16324279
Not one for subtlety, are you? Fashion is an expression of taste. Western taste clearly triumphs.

>>16324278
Xi Jinping Thought consists of a 14-point basic policy as follows:

Ensuring Communist Party of China leadership over all forms of work in China.
The Communist Party of China should take a people-centric approach for the public interest.
The continuation of "comprehensive deepening of reforms".
Adopting new science-based ideas for "innovative, coordinated, green, open and shared development".
Following "socialism with Chinese characteristics" with "people as the masters of the country".
Governing China with Rule of Law.
"Practice socialist core values", including Marxism, communism and socialism with Chinese characteristics.
"Improving people's livelihood and well-being is the primary goal of development".
Coexist well with nature with "energy conservation and environmental protection" policies and "contribute to global ecological safety".
Strengthen the National security of China.
The Communist Party of China should have "absolute leadership over" China's People's Liberation Army.
Promoting the one country, two systems system for Hong Kong and Macau with a future of "complete national reunification" and to follow the One-China policy and 1992 Consensus for Taiwan.
Establish a common destiny between Chinese people and other people around the world with a "peaceful international environment".
Improve party discipline in the Communist Party of China.

>>16324294
How are these inherently Chinese?

>>16324284
>Christianity, nationalism and now liberalism are just fads
Yes, that's right. A fad that totally dominates and leaves room for nothing else.

>>16324294
Ok, what exactly is "chinese characteristics" tho

>>16324294
>"socialism with Chinese characteristics"
This is one of the funniest terms ever created

>>16324011

>>16324320
Mate, God is dead and nationalism is seen as "racist" throughout Europe. And these two totally dominated Europe for centuries. There's nothing that guarantees Liberalism won't lose its popularity, unless Brave New World and shiet

>>16324324
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-2/mswv2_23.htm

>>16324334
>blacks defining white culture for them
Lol never forget

>>16324334
This is definite proof that african-americans are subhumans and that their cultural motto is unironically
>gib me dat for free

>>16324130
neoliberalism was created by european aristocrats so their assets would be liquid across the globe

>>16324049
Define values and culture.

>>16324359
See >>16324152, I can’t cuz of da joos

>>16324336
I agree that liberalism is as temporary as the other two ideologies, but while in power it leaves little room for anything else.
We'll definitely see the death of liberalism and it's replacement with something else before the West succumbs to it's terminal decline.

>>16324334
So white culture is just liberalism and wage slavery? So how is this different from anything in western hegemony? White culture dominates the world

>>16324369
>White culture dominates the world
Exactly, the west dominates the world culturally, economically and militarily. It has been in power for centuries but it's power has started to wain, with the only truly powerful western nation being the USA.

>>16324406
>capitalism
>west
Looooool

>>16324406
Western culture IS world culture. Chinks watch American movies, for God's sake.
>>16324414
Capitalism is Western, just like Socialism

>>16324426
>Capitalism is Western, just like Socialism
>modes of production are culturally “western”
AHAHAHAHAHA

>>16324426
>Western culture IS world culture. Chinks watch American movies, for God's sake.
Now they do, because the West is in power. When the West dies (as has every civilization before it) then we'll be watching Chinese movies.

>>16324447
China doesn't play the cultural hegemony game. They don't push Chinese culture into their sphere of influence. I heard Xi was trying to this but I haven't seen any of it yet

>>16324461
The NBA, Hollywood, UK government etc are all subservient to the Chinese lol

>>16324468
So what? They are still Western and they have never pushed any "Chinese culture" onto people besides censoring criticism of the CCP but is that what you consider "Chinese culture"?

Nah mate just socialism with german characteristics why you saying nazi the heck

>>16324113
>he just discusses the issues. what depth do you need?
In his newest book The Madness of Crowds he talks about some pretty important and relevant "divisive" issues: sexuality, gender, technology and race etc. All of these are worthy of having whole books devoted to each topic, but he does a good enough job condensing his thoughts into a 300ish page book, but I would have preferred more context and general information to support some of his augments than what can realistically fit into a book of that length. I understand why he does this as to not alienate the more general reader from his books, but I cant help but think that the book would have been superior if he made it twice the original length, that's just my constructive criticism, overall I found both The Strange Death of Europe and The Madness of Crowds to be interesting and quite engaging books to read.

>>16324468
In what way? I thought hollywood was controlled by da jooooz?

Or do you mean that hollywood is pandering to a large ethnic group because of capitalism?

>>16324461
I mean that could change, China could also start adopting more and more western culture, i.e clothes, art, music, etc.
It wouldn't be the first time something like this happened, Western civilization also adopted and adapted many aspects of Greco-Roman Civilization.

Let's just fucking let the progs win already. It's clear they need to get this out of their system, and their bullshit ideology will implode anyway. It won't matter in the end.

People will die, but if that bothers you, read the Bhagavad Gita.

>>16324468
The BA, Hollywood and the UK government are all apart of western hegemony you dolt. How the fuck is hollwood or NBA chinese? Because they have some chinese shareholders? lmfao

>>16324496
Why do cuckservatives love this guy so much, he's a fag. He gets fucked in the ass by men (many of whom are black) and they cum inside of him.
Are conservatives now cool with LGB now.

>>16324504
>da jooooz?
based npc

>>16323970

>>16324520
So is it the jews or chinese? Or is the ethnicity of your boogeyman always changing to fit whoever you want to blame this time?

>>16324524
I was just remarking on your robotic repetition of a phrase meant to strawman anyone who ever mentions Jews doing anything negative.

>>16324544
So are you going to keep obfuscating or answer the question?

>>16324518
Straight conservatives are inbred hicks, incapable of doing a gay man's job

>>16324518
>Why do cuckservatives love this guy so much
The more secular ones probably like him more than the religious ones do. Just a guess.

>>16323970
You haven't read the book.
It's not a defense of Western Culture.

It is a book that tries to prove the following assertion: Europe is committing suicide through importation of third-worlders (specially Muslims) who don't share the same values upon which contemporary European civilization was built.

You literally cannot refute that, so you just pretend that the point of the book (which, I repeat, you haven't read) is something else.

>>16324727
>this guy has actually read the book
nice.

>>16324755
Only took us nearly 90 comments.

>>16324727
>Europe is committing suicide through importation of third-worlders (specially Muslims) who don't share the same values upon which contemporary European civilization was built
You can't refute immigrants not sharing the same values, but what you CAN refute from that argument is the fear mongering for the destruction of Europe. Because there's no destruction or suicide. Immigrants aren't going door to door to white people houses to change their culture. Most of them just live their lives in their own bubble. Yes there are a lot of criminals from the minority background, but the vast majority of them aren't

>>16324872
What does that have to do with the birth-rate statistics?

Just read the book, OK?

>>16324872
>Yes there are a lot of criminals from the minority background

Why should Europeans have to deal with them?

>>16324872
>Immigrants aren't going door to door to white people houses to change their culture.
And yet, the culture in these countries is vastly different to today to the point where it's unrecognizable from only 20 years ago.

>Yes there are a lot of criminals from the minority background
They are vastly over represented in every country. Why should Europe import criminality?

>>16324727
> Europe is committing suicide through importation of third-worlders (specially Muslims) who don't share the same values upon which contemporary European civilization was built.
Brainlet nigger, cheap labour is what euro civilization is built on.

Let me explain this to you like a child. In order to compete with China or India starting to leverage their large native labor pool and reaching technological parity with the west (in the case of China, exceeding them), eurocucks can either do one of 2 things:

a) import cheap labour for exploitation domestically, forming a socially immobile underclass
b) outsource domestic industry overseas

Now, option B is political suicide. Option A however both favors the aristocracy and petit bougies while simultaneously allowing neoliberals (read: anglo-american) silencing of dissenting voices through protestant (read: anglo-american) guilt tripping of yuppie plebeians.

>>16324727
>Europe is committing suicide through importation of third-worlders (specially Muslims) who don't share the same values upon which contemporary European civilization was built.
I really don't think this is as severe an issue as it is so frequently made out to be. By using our educational resources and technology, buying our products, and engaging with our art, most imports raise kids who are, for all intents and purposes, proper Europeans. I see it all the time, and have worked with plenty of people who support this assertion. Even if there are criminals who refuse to get with the times, they don't make up the majority.

>>16325342
The only common cultural ground between third-worlders and europeans is petty material things like food or product. If Europeans refuse to stubbornly defend their culture, they will have the same fate as America: a spiritually dead economic zone which has been in racial unrest for the past 4 months. With history demonstrating how forcefully the pre-WWI American culture was supplanted by what we have today, Murray's argument isn't so far-fetched.

>>16324294
It's all bullshit. You're not getting your 50 cents.

>>16325069
Well western civilization is built and relies on cheap labour. So maybe blame capitalism?

>>16324265
"western civilization" was created when a bunch of overrated enlightenment philosophers decided to start larping as ancient Greeks and Romans. Literally everything important about western civilization; its values, institutions, traditions, art, literature, etc, were created in medieval Christian Europe. Stop larping and embrace that.

>>16325107
the vast majority of those people don't work lol

>>16324347
It's actually a Jewish woman defining Anglo-American culture for a black museum visited by whites

>>16324265
lol wow

>>16324265
You have to be 18 to post here, faggot.

>>16325778
>>16325788
Cope bitch. It took christcucks 1500 years to catch up to the Greeks.

Top kek at all the people ITT launching into these histrionic defenses of third-world immigration.
>Define culture. Define values. Define traditions.
>Bro, your whole frickin culture if liberalism and capitalism.
>Oh you don't like Muslim immigration? Well, too bad, bigot! That's what you get under capitalism! If you don't like it you should've done a heckin COMMUNISM already like you were supposed to a hundred years ago!

Conveniently this sort of thinking ignores the reality that the rest of the world has foreign workers (that actually work) without any of the problems with crime, welfare fraud, degeneracy, etc. because they don't have Democracy, are rather indifferent to Human Rights, and don't operate within the framework of post-war left-wing morality.

>>16325555
Postwar immigration didn't really change US culture - all those people become generalized whites or generalized blacks.

>>16325797
Oh shit nigga an unsourced eurocentric graph

>>16325555
>The only common cultural ground between third-worlders and europeans is petty material things like food or product.
Same can be said about educated vs. non-educated Europeans.

>>16325797
i can't believe anyone would unironically use that graph. the y axis isn't even labelled.

>>16325819
Communists dont understand capitalism

>>16325917
I much prefer the version with the Mu wars and the ancient Finnish invasions.

>>16323970
what a retard. Islam =/= Middle-Eastern.

>>16325895
Non-educated Europeans aren't supposed to be the ones defining the culture. They should be the ones doing slaves labor, not fucking foreigners

>>16323970
>Turkey shown as part of Europe but Russia (to the Urals) isn't
wtf bros

>>16325943
Some Kraut boomer pseud deciding to label absolutist corporatism differently doesn't actually turn it into libertarianism.
Still many don't take into consideration the detriment of a senseless race to the bottom.

>>16323970
Run of the mill neocon and faggot too boot. Retards like him got us here in the first place. At least read Mosley or something

>>16324334
>Judeo-Christian

>>16324049
The ammount of people seething to this post is like poetry

>>16324334
>individualism
>scientific method
>protestant
>authority
>"""justice"""
jesus fucking christ this is horrific

>>16324872
>I dont know how democracy works and how voting behaviour of immigrants votes you, the native, out of power
lmao

When elites speak about "diversity" and "multiculturalism" they're not actually speaking about anything but getting more warm bodies to lord over. Everything else that follows, the "discourse" about whiteness, privilege and colonialism, it's just a way to maintain this new multicultural political coalition. A language for clients, not people

It's plain to see that capital has circumvented what's good and sustainable, as it always does. A nation grows strong when healthy selection pressures are ever-present and focuses on other things than strictly the ability to get money. Immigration of labor ("Don't you see, we need these people to do these jobs!") is a woefully inadequate selection criteria but even the fact that people are swayed by this argument is enough proof of how sick people really are. That's the death of europe, that people no longer understand that the only meaningful political coalition is one that is slowly grown among people who can cultivate their minds and spirits and that every member has to be "vetted" in many different ways

>>16325107
you'd have to have shit for brains and a fat AIDs positive dick up your ass to believe this leftoid nonsense

>THEY'RE IMPORTING THE THIRD WORLD AS A CAPITALIST CONSPIRACY TO CREATE A SLAVE UNDERCLASS!!!
yeah dude all these 83 IQ barbarians are gonna do 1st world labor

>>16327072
>how voting behaviour of immigrants votes you, the native, out of power
Name ONE instance of this happening in reality and not in your deluded mind. I'll wait.

>>16325733
Get out of the house more

>>16327093
You dare suggest that some voices carry more weight than others? That one opinion is more valid than another? Why, that's fascism! That's the death of democracy! That goes against everything we stand for!

How dare you...

>>16324077
It's better than getting together to watch manchild cartoons, disney movies, and capeshit.

>>16325797
Science was a mistake. If only some group had burned every last Greco-Roman manuscript relating to science.. that would have extended the Golden Age (Middle Ages) by another few thousand years at least

>>16325107
Or, and here me out, we have more kids and change our modes of production.

>>16324872
Cultures are in competition with each other and it is a zero sum game, meaning a victory for one is a loss for another. Bringing in Muslims and giving them airtime, giving them representation, or teaching about them in school is coming at the expense of the native culture and it is changing the fabric of our nations. You don't need to be door salesmen to change the culture, the foreign culture only needs to exist in order to impose itself.

Muslims have no business being in Europe.

>>16327190
england. over and over again. but this is /lit/ so read Dilemmas of inclusion by Rafaela Dancygiers

>>16327244
Based as fuck

>>16327190
Germany's biggest cities are cucked beyond repair. I lived there for 2 years. England is rapidly becomming more more like the USA as well, it's only a matter of time they have their own major scale racial conflicts. Also Paris. And don't get me started on Sweden.

>muh genes

>>16327288
You guys really have consumed too much paradox games

>>16327389
I don't play videogames. Can you even claim that what I said was wrong?

>I can't defineany of these things lol
>go to Somalia, tries to make them ban female circumcision
Now you know what your culture is

>>16324366
Nigger, this is the terminal decline. Europe cannot hope to go back to being Europe. The foundation has changed. All European countries have sizable enclaves of non-European genetic material. It’s true Europeans could expel them and return to a purer state... but what are the chances of that? Even if there was a grand upheaval of liberal and technocratic values, how likely is it that something like racial/cultural purity will partially replace it? Europe had its fun. It had an ok run. But ultimately, it was too full of vice and has failed.

>>16327463
I'm not going to give your schizo ramblings any delusions of importance

>>16324509
This is partially how I have come to see it recently. The other part being that I just don’t really care what Paco in Texas does, and I have no genuine right to tell people in Idaho how to live their lives. The modern “left” and “right” are both parties of becoming and therefore ontologically leftwing. There is no party of being, and there never will be. But that’s all I want; simply to be. There is a difference between the two above only insofar as the nominal left wants to change the social structure of the world directly whereas the nominal right leaves that the technological and economic development. Either way, it has to collapse eventually, though I believe the left will bring that about faster. I hope to god, at least

>>16327552
You're not fooling anyone.

>>16325107
>import cheap labour for exploitation domestically, forming a socially immobile underclass
This would make sense if the same people pushing for immigration weren't also pushing for more social mobility for minorities

>>16325098
>culture in these countries is vastly different to today to the point where it's unrecognizable from only 20 years ago.
Exactly how? The mere fact that you see different people looking on the street is a vast change of culture?

>>16327611
>t. amerimutt

>>16327032
>Retards like him got us here in the first place
How

>>16327611
The way they look is part of it yeah, but also the music they like, the food, the politics, the religion, the philosophical outlook, their particular dating culture, their speaking dialects, and outlook and attitudes toward native traditions and outgroups are some examples.

I really don't understand why you people pretend that culture doesn't exist or that these people aren't different. It's in the very assumption that diversity is good that these people are different. It's very dishonest.

>>16327642
All people are equal
Culture derives from people
Therefore, all cultures are equal (and equally valuable)
Sorry, but Hitler called and he wants his talking points back

>>16327655
Culture is the summation of a groups behavior, and not all groups literally act the same so not all cultures are actually equal. If you believe all peoples behavior is valuable then you need to argue that and not just assume it. I personally think some behavior should be stopped, but if it's true that some behavior should be stopped then not all cultures are equally valuable. Some are bad.

>>16327190
There are instances of an immigrant going to power over a native, so the question here should name one instance where someone from a minority background went to power and tried to implement something from his culture that is against European values.

>>16327655
It's really when leftists say this because if all cultures are equally valuable then how you oppose rape culture or the patriarchy?

>>16327667
>some behaviors need to be stopped
>I.e. the ones I don’t like
Actually yikes

>>16327685
Yes, some behavior should be disfavored.

>>16327682
>>16327689
There are some behaviors and cultures (ex. Rape culture, patriarchy) that are scientifically proven to be bad for a society. So yeah, I guess I shouldn’t say all cultures are equal. There definitely are some that are bad. But Islamic culture isn’t one of them, and neither is LGBT, black, and all the other things you people always cite. Just accept it: you are wrong about what is right.

>>16327655
>all people are equal
I genuinely want to know what brings someone to this conclusion? It's not even about race, you see a lot of difference between human potential inside racial groups. If someone is more intelligent, capable and successful than another individual how can you call them equal?
Doesn't have to be black and white, you can say this individual is superior in this and that, the other one in different areas, or whatever.
I'm really not here for political shitflinging, but it just seems like such an apparent, objective fact of life to me. I'd really like to know why you think so.

>>16327719
Idk I’m just parroting talking point lmao. I assume they just rely on the assumption that we are all, according to big Science, homo sapiens that everyone deserves the same treatment in virtue of that fact. Beyond that, I’m with you. I don’t get it

>>16327719
There is always some boogeyman preventing both equal opportunity and equal attainment
This has now been transformed into the narrative of inclusion, equity and stakeholders. Ignoring the obvious irony, this seems to suggest that they truly do believe that everyone should have an equal say, and therefore we are all, or all should be, equal.
To this end, they seem to rewrite the equity distribution equation wherein it no longer corresponds to the amount of effort you put in, but is a 'fair' value divided among all stakeholders. Inclusion simply means that each individual must have a 'fair' and 'equal' contribution to the equity distribution equation.

All of the above is, of course, at odds with natural law, or in other words it is incompatible with reality. This never seems to occur to them.

>>16327700
>patriarchy is bad
>Islamic culture is okay
what did anon mean by this

>>16323990
insert Gorky quote

>>16324334
If this is white culture, I'd rather not be white

>>16327798
>Christianity is the norm
It isn't

>>16327700
>that are scientifically proven to be bad for a society.
The idea that rape or the patriarchy is bad is a value claim and not an empirical one. Science doesn't tell us what is moral.

>>16324771
A brand new record for /lit/, sweet.

>>16327640
Read>>16324257
His ideal society is still extremly liberal. You would just slide back where we are atm in a decade or two

>>16327655
>Therefore, all cultures are equal
Explain the tribal cannibalistic cultures of New Guinea.

>>16327871
According to the left, that’s a valuable culture and deserves respect. Bigotry not welcome >>>/pol/

>>16324103
>>16324238
>>16327233
Seething.

>>16324872
*plays jihadi music on loudspeakers*

>>16327877
If this thread has taught me anything it's that all culture is good and equal, except for white culture, but culture isn't even real so don't even talk about it, Nazi.

If this thread has taught me anything it's that there are even more muzzies on here than i thought

>>16327894
The 2016 election brought in droves of them and low IQ Christians. That's why the board is how it is since then.

>>16327908
Return to the religion of your ancestors

>>16327923
How far back we talking? Middle Ages? Stone Age? Ice Age?

>>16327804
Judaeo-Christianity is

>>16327288
Islam does not change culture, the tradition PRIDES itself on the capabilities of the religion in protecting the cultural heritage and values of the land. Islam is just a base philosophy regarding metaphysics. Muslim was in Europe for centuries before the mass immigration happened. If you wanted to blame someone, blame America and the colonials for fucking with the Middle-East in the first place. The culture is morphing because of the secular presupposition that puts the subjective human intellect above the tradition. Muslims are the last dying breath of conservatism that exists in your shitty country before the mass suicide under liberalism.

>>16327894
Islam is the true Philosopher's religion

>>16328011
Culture is the summation of a peoples behavior and preferences. If you bring into your group a people with different behavior and preferences how does that not change the culture of the group as a whole? What does it mean for a culture to morph if not change?

>>16328011
>>16328037
Really, you people are so sloppy in your thinking that it must be born of dishonesty.

>Bruh, just be a total individualist atom with no common culture, traditions, values, roles, experiences, goals, or expectations to anyone around you.
>Bruh, but also, willingly reduce your quality of life and/or the heights you can reach in life in order to indirectly help these xenomorphs you cannot relate to or understand in any way other than the most superficial ones.

This is basically what progressive lefties are asking of the common man. Be alienated, yet altruistic.

>>16328037
>If you bring into your group a people with different behavior and preferences how does that not change the culture of the group as a whole
Muslims definitely changed the culture of Europe, that's not my contention nor am I denying that. My contention is with the apparent promotion that Islam is somehow at the center of the cause when really, if you are a conservative, Islam holds the same value that you are a proponent of.
The changing of Europe has more to do with the widespread liberal philosophy that made the people totally unappreciative and ignorant of the importance and beauty of the European culture, thus become quick to abandon it.
Tell me, what was the cultural change that you see in Europe that correlates with the core Islamic theology? If you can't even point that out, then I'm sorry, but that's pure bigotry on your part.

>>16328132
>mosques
>minarettes
>muezin screaming
>halal food
could go on

>>16328098
>Bruh, just be a total individualist atom with no common culture, traditions, values, roles, experiences, goals, or expectations to anyone around you.
Leftists don't believe in values? Why do I have to hear about Our Values every day then? Does that mean we don't have to believe in human rights after all?

>Bruh, but also, willingly reduce your quality of life and/or the heights you can reach in life in order to indirectly help these xenomorphs you cannot relate to or understand in any way other than the most superficial ones.
In the US the left rejects individualism as racist now. One of the core ideas of critical race theory is that every aspect of our lives is shaped by racial experience and as members of ascriptive groups more generally. Maybe you're a Euro and don't have this stuff yet, but I imagine the State Department will do their best to change that.

>This is basically what progressive lefties are asking of the common man. Be alienated, yet altruistic.
We had to adopt (insert stupid belief here) as a reaction to Nazism, you see. Never again!

>>16324510
its hollywood they bend to anyone with capital

>>16328210
All of them can't be distinctly european? Except for halal meat, arguably all of them can assimilate beautifully into european culture. None of their architectural stylings or the melody of the adhan are a part of the core Muslim theology. That's middle eastern culture. Not islam.

So does europe want to unironically become epcot?

>>16328423
>All of them can't be distinctly european?
no

>>16327389
somebodys projecting

>>16324266
The Chinese SJW's destroyed their own culture in the 60's by turning it into socialistic state, in the process considering anything chinese cultural to be toxic and burning buildings and books of it.

>>16327297
>>16327341
>>16327675
No? Nothing? Well okay then...

>>16328317
The methods employed by leftists are anti-individualistic, but paradoxically their goals are supremely individualistic. They believe all expectational identity frameworks, ie gender, inherently result in discrimination and thus must be abolished. The end goal of progressives is a world where there are no roles or cultural expectations of any kind, and someone just makes up their own identity and reason for living.

It's nonsense, and completely divorced from the reality of human existence, but this is what they're fighting for if you get them to describe it.

>>16328668
>They believe all expectational identity frameworks, ie gender, inherently result in discrimination and thus must be abolished.
No, they believe that race/gender/etc. are part of a victimary hierarchy, which is again a reaction to Nazism, colonialism, and American slavery.

> The end goal of progressives is a world where there are no roles or cultural expectations of any kind
Does that mean I won't have a cultural expectation of paying to care for designated victim races/genders? Seems unlikely unfortunately.

There's a surprising amount of anti racist lefties on /lit/, what happened

>>16324156
You're surrounded by it, so you think it doesn't exist. Western culture is the very air you breathe yet take for granted

>>16328827
/lit/ was the original /leftypol/, this thread also brought the Muslims expats out

Is assimilation a meme? Or is it just a meme in america.

>>16328910
It's not a meme. Immigrants to the US basically become either blacks or whites eventually.

>>16324294
>What if I just label it chinese then surely it'll be chinese

>>16324001
Nothing wrong with not caring about worthless things, especially when they're just there to exert control over you.

>>16328701
You're thinking short-term. Long-term leftists want the abolition of all adentity categories, and they believe them to be arbitrary social constructs. Inter-sectionalism is a means to this, not an end-goal for them.

>Does that mean I won't have a cultural expectation of paying to care for designated victim races/genders? Seems unlikely unfortunately.
Of course not, as so long as there is a difference of outcome they can construe as a result of victimization, they'll lay responsibility at the feat of those groups perceived to have power. This is why I agree their methods and beleifs are self-contradictory, they don't understand humanity and thus reinforce identity groups in their vain attempt to abolish them. In practice all they'll actually do is invert the power heirarchy with whites at the bottom.

>whitoids will extinct in your life time
feels good

>>16328943
Ok, what if I reject equality and human rights? Is that ok?

Unironically the Muslim dominated 22nd century of Europe will see reinvigorated imperialism, justified by the Quran instead of the Bible, led by 3rd and 4th generation politicians that all speak English

>>16323990
>>16327791

>>16328879
As much as I dislike and disagree with the left, I much preferred this board when I arrived around 2011/2012 and it was primarily left. The quality of threads has plummeted severely since then, and the left is generally much better at trolling.

>>16327133
>1st world labor is high iq

>>16329456
>the left is generally much better at trolling.
Are you fucking joking social and old media are constantly being trolled by 4chan type reactionaries.

I remember back in 2016 anons sending images of pepe anal raping simultaneously dismembering a tied up wojack shitting everywhere, to a famous foxnews anchor and tricking her into posting it and getting band from twitter.

>>16329456
Also what was it like in 2011?

>>16323970
>anglo cuck writing about a continent he doesn't belong to

>>16330171
>>16330181
2011-2014 or so was a very different time for /lit/ and 4chan in general. A lot of posters were older, often by admission. Many of them frequented other boards, like /out/ or /trv/, or at any rate lived rather than sat home all day glued to their computers. Writing threads were much higher quality and average post lengths were longer. Today lots of them would be in their 40s and 50s. That crowd doesn't seem to post here anymore as the average age of pretty much every board becomes around 18 years old and the average teenager has less and less an interest in the outside world each passing year.

>>16327611
>Exactly how? The mere fact that you see different people looking on the street is a vast change of culture?
Exactly how? Take a look at any Western country today demographically and compare it to only 20 years ago, it gets even worse if you go back 30 or 40 years, not to mention 50 or 60. White native Brits are a minority in London in 2020, pretty much every major European city is following the exact same trend. Smaller towns are completely overwhelmed by non-Europeans. How many churches has been vandalized so far in France? 300+. How many terror attacks has Europe had only in the last decade? Only counting the somewhat larger ones with say 5-10+ dead and 5-10 injured we're already in the hundreds. Crime is seeing an unprecedented increase throughout, especially when it comes to drugs, robberies, murders, rape and so on and in every single case non-Europeans are vastly over represented. And we haven't even begun to discuss the changes you're seeing in politics and economics, which are also huge and unprecedented. Within not even two decades countries would have completely eroded their pension funds, healthcare collapsing, social security cost increasing by huge sums reaching new highs every year.

That's exactly how.

>>16323970

>everyone should just have the same brown monoculture

>>16330892
>lived rather than sat home all day glued to their computers
No, I don't think so. 4chan has always been avant garde, and those of us who were here first were also the first generation of extremely online schizophrenics. The others were only just beginning to adopt this mode of existence in 2011/2012, pic related.
>Writing threads were much higher quality and average post lengths were longer.
Very true. Fiction was discussed much more often and the much more rare political discussions were dominated by Marxists.
>Today lots of them would be in their 40s and 50s.
This is a real stretch. I don't think there's any evidence that the average age of posters has gone down over time. Anyone over 30 was always an "oldfag" irl.

>>16331177
So you need to spend equal amounts of time talking and equal amounts on the internet for optimal sleep and happiness

>>16331246
yes, so if you are never on the internet and also talk to no one you are optimally happy and get plenty of sleep!

>>16323970
>Muh unified european history and heritage

Fascists are either illiterate or dishonest. Im going with both.

>>16330892
>them would be in their 40s and 50s
Sounds bloody ridiculous (more like 20's 30's) and don't think it necessarily got younger on average, since gamergate, donald and massive social media purge of "politically incorrect" netizens, there has been a huge influx of phoneposters.
4chan has a migrant refuge problem, new posters are pouring into the big 4 boards. they don't care about the rules and customs, they use vpn's along with 2 ip's to evade bans and then shit the place up with off topic nonsense or insult janitors.
/lit/ obviously wasn't directly hit but the shock wave has affected all of the smaller boards.

>>16332070
Just because it's not unified doesn't mean it's not getting overrun by a poorly manage influx of immigrants.

>>16332117
So when Europe tore itself apart and put millions in ovens, or when half of it was run by zealous totalitarians it was better cause it was our authentic European disfunction, But now that some European countries have 8% islam we are really screwed

>>16323970
>book about the death of Europe
>written by a gay man

>>16332222
Putting aside your inability to understand what demographic trends are aside, yes, being at war is preferable to a peace where your people are being humiliated via murder, rape, and replacement, unable to complain about it because of racism. Not that this false dichotomy even matters to begin with, perhaps we can have peace in Europe without infinity muslims.

>>16332795
What a coward faggot you are.

>>16324255
Retarded justification of a redpilled opinion

>>16324265
Room temperature IQ post

>>16324271
>They call themselves the Chinese Communist Party so therefore they are communists despite everything else

>>16332091
>/lit/ obviously wasn't directly hit
It obviously was. And I don't see how it's ridiculous when lots of posters then actually started visiting the site around 2004-2006, already in their 20s and 30s.

>>16333324
>posters then actually started visiting the site around 2004-2006, already in their 20s and 30s.
well that's 30's 40's then not 40's 50's. Checkmate faggot.

>>16323970
Why the fuck does he include Turkey?

>>16325819
>Postwar immigration didn't really change US culture - all those people become generalized whites or generalized blacks.
You're clueless if you think the culture of this country wasn't radically changed by the immigration of all of those white people. WASPs and so-called "white ethnics" were pretty different, and forging them into one new thing was a dramatic cultural shift. There's a reason Kennedy was such a big deal, and it isn't just because he got shot.

>>16327798
It's more like WASP culture than white culture. Italians and the Irish aren't nearly so austere.

>>16328423
You're right, the other guy is a dilusional basic bitch counter-jihad type. Keep this up and soon he'll be shouting about how fag rights are western values being trampled on by the evil patriarchal muslims or whatever. Never mind how many mosques are styled after the Hagia Sophia.

Douglas Murray is one of the most prominent neoconservatives in Europe. He wrote a book about Europe needing neoconservativism. He is also an ardent zionist, philo-semitic grifter/bootlicker and clearly a psuedo-intellectual but has a rat's cunning which makes mid-wits think he's intelligent.

He and his cohorts are the people most responsible for the turmoil in the Middle East and the subsequent problems this lead to in Europe/The West. Now he has the audacity to obfuscate about Europe's decline, wokeness, Identity politics and such.

He's platformed solely to funnel Brits into pro-zionist, mild anti-racist progressive race relations, internationalism, pro homosexuality, mild euro scepticism, free markets, anti irish sentiment, islamophobia, fake spirituality and pro-unionism.

>>16332222
Yes, because indiscriminately importing brown people isn't fixing our wealth inequality and ecological problems, it's making them worse and adding whole new layers of problems.
Humans already struggle with cultural & psychological diversity, now there's a misdirecting racial diversity to contend with.

Humans have a natural tendency to reduce and essentialize things, we're pragmatic we need answers quick, they just need to be "good enough", which is especially ineffective when individuals try to asses the typical behaviour of entire groups of people they barely know, even more so when it's a minority group especially a racial one, as race shows clear differences in bone&cartilige structure and skin. Being a racial minority is being distinctive, when you commit a crime you are a distinctive criminal when you excel in sports you are a distinctive sportsman, for better and worse it amplifies a outcomes, contributes to ideas, perceptions, beliefs.

While the concept of race isn't accurate there is an obvious truth to it that can't be denied, finding the details requires decades of training and experience in the segmented scientific disciplines who's results then have to survive legitimate scientific and illegitimate political beatings. Proof of whites being misinformed or lying to oppress other races is not proof of racial equality.

It requires either a lot of intelligence, empathy and experience to understand a subject, a people, and even then the experts struggle a lot, the average person can't sufficiently inform themselves to take appropriate action both politically and in day to day life.

Also all the time given to educate people about foreign cultures is time taken away from national/regional culture.
And i know this all to well being mixed part welsh and french antilles, between work, sleep, maintenance there isn't that much time for a person to cultivate themself.
Cultural entropy is real and can only be countered in the short term and it's available solutions each have a malus.
1) Curation, regulation of culture - it's explicitly discriminative.
2) A better educated populace - unpopular and older cultural elements become unused mind junk.
3) Increase the population of native culture practitoners - increases variation along with entropy, fragments society (e.g. Catalonia - scotland) and then there's the issue of race both neural and appearance influencing culture.

There is also the issue of how genetic/memetic diversity interact to form distinct ideological groups (within an ethnicity) with their own biases.
What is politics in a deterministic universe? A bbc wildlife program? who is the "legitimate" "authentic" white person? the liberal, the conservative? the nazbol or the royalist?
How do ideologies win people? destroy, dominate, convert, compromise. Who's right? I here naturalistic and moralistic fallacies from the american left/right all the fucking time, acting like their values are TRUTH.

>>16332222
>>16332222
>So when Europe tore itself apart and put millions in ovens, or when half of it was run by zealous totalitarians it was better cause it was our authentic European disfunction, But now that some European countries have 8% islam we are really screwed
Enjoy American-style dysfunction and race politics when you hit 13%, kek. That's the real threat, not Islam per se - those Muslims will become generalized American Blacks.

>>16328022
Read Maimonides and Halevi.

>>16324281
>>16325693
>>16325778
>>16325788
>>16333025
It is unbelievable, but you Christians do not seem to know where your religion came from, nor how, nor why. Your historians, with one great exception, do not tell you. The documents in the case, which are part of your Bible, you chant over but do not read. We have done our work too thoroughly; you believe our propaganda too implicitly. The coming of Christianity is to you not an ordinary historical event growing out of other events of the time; it is the fulfilment of a divine Jewish prophecy - with suitable amendments of your own. It did not, as you see it, destroy a great Gentile civilization and a great Gentile empire with which Jewry was at war; it did not plunge mankind into barbarism and darkness for a thousand years; it came to bring salvation to the Gentile world !

Yet here, if ever, was a great subversive movement, hatched in Palestine, spread by Jewish agitators, financed by Jewish money, taught in Jewish pamphlets and broadsides, at a time when Jewry and Rome were in a death-struggle, and ending in the collapse of the great Gentile empire. You do not even see it, though an intelligent child, unbefuddled by theological magic, could tell you what it is all about after a hasty reading of the simple record. And then you go on prattling of Jewish conspiracies and cite as instances the Great War and the Russian Revolution! Can you wonder that we Jews have always taken your anti-Semites rather lightly, as long as they did not resort to violence ?

>>16324156
If by Western "culture" we mean the mentality that dominates the West at present, then it can in no wise be called a culture in the strict sense, but only an anti-culture, insofar as it's key feature is the lack of proper cultus. This already provides the basic insight necessary for understanding its nature. Western man is, like Man himself, a reproducer of himself. Thus it will be instructive to see what he has made of traditional societies more recently to understand the pattern that underlies him more recently. If we consider some of the countries of the middle east, in which he has sought both to get rid of the transcendent ideal that bound these societies together, as well as its rightful instance on Earth, we see that the people in these countries instead find themselves subject to highly volatile tyrannies. This is, we claim, the basic pattern of the West.
Consider the fidget spinner. Not long ago it was imperative unto every child to own such a contraption. Walk through the streets of Europe today and you will not find a single one of them, and its children will readily inform you that playing with such a thing would be "cringe". The adults are, of course, no different. Pop "culture", fashion, technology -- all of these instantiate the above pattern par excellence.
The defining value of Western "civilization" as it currently is is the more or less recent disappearance of a trandcendent ideal.

>>16332222
this

>>16332222
do you think that the mongol invasions meant that asia should've imported aztecs

>>16336088
Something is wrong with your brain, Douglas Murray claims muslims are threatening our pristine european cultures.

Thats retarded, and yes id be fine with aztec minorities in Europe.

>>16332222
What do YOU think of the "steam chambers"? Note that the technical installations were described in great detail; it was not a "rumor" that Jews were being steamed to death, it was a deliberate LIE.

How many people know that at Nuremberg the Germans were accused of, along with killing about six million Jews :

- vaporizing 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz with "atomic energy";
- killing 840,000 Russian POW's at Sachsenhausen concentration camp (in one month, with special pedal-driven brain-bashing machines, no less), then disposing of them in mobile crematoria;
- torturing and killing Jewish prisoners to the tempo of a specially composed "Tango of Death" in Lvov;
- steaming Jews to death like lobsters at Treblinka;
- electrocuting them en masse at Belzec;
- making not only lampshades and soap but also handbags, driving gloves, book bindings, saddles, riding breeches, gloves, house slippers, etc. from the remains of their victims; - killing prisoners and concentration camp inmates for everything from having armpit hair to soiled underclothing ?

>>16336186
>Something is wrong with your brain, Douglas Murray claims muslims are threatening our pristine european cultures.
Everyone knows it's not about "culture", Arab/African migrants just behave badly and can't be forced to behave or be sent back because lol democracy and human rights. Simple as. You just can't say it because that's doing a Hitler. The right framing of this issue isn't that Islam is going to threaten Europe, it's that they're going to become a type of generalized Black American >>16334186 and enable societal dysfunction like Black Americans do. This makes immigration, multiculturalism, etc. American (and thus bad) in the eyes of a Euro, but without having to engage in sophistry about "what is Western Culture really".

>Thats retarded, and yes id be fine with aztec minorities in Europe.
Preferable to Africans or Arabs, but mestizos still tend to allow places to become run down and enable dysfunctional leftist politics.

We have a saying in our country that roughly translates to "He who is without any personal honour, and does not feel pride in his nation, he is not a man, he is a mere animal, and no better than a corpse".
I don't think there is anything wrong with caring about "muh culture, muh tradition, muh values.", you commie globalist scum.

>>16336312
Schizo

>>16336344
Young people behave recklessly, its in their nature doesnt matter if its White kids who become hooligans or trannies or do drugs, or if its immigrants who are resentful and uppity.

People have to be allowed to stumble, that you can act like a guiding light instead of with judgment.

>>16336568
>
Young people behave recklessly, its in their nature doesnt matter if its White kids who become hooligans or trannies or do drugs, or if its immigrants who are resentful and uppity.
If you don't allow immigration from certain areas your rate of "stumbling" will go down by like 50%. I understand that this seems to not be very nice, but it's a perfectly normal sentiment outside of the Hitler-haunted world.

>>16336581
I grew up around these immigrants, and I dont see what you see, infact ive liked them way more than the spoiled natives who drank their parents vodka to unconcioussness. But whatever, i think your perspective is fine. I just dont agree.

>immigration bad
>it's not the ruling class who are bad but all these brown people
>environmental destruction? imperialism? israel? no free healthcare? no free college? price jacking for essential things like education, housing, and life saving drugs? another war to make schlomo skrilla? landlords? workers have no power? oligarch overlords? bro these aren't the problem. the real problem is all these brown people
right wingers are useful idiots for the ruling class

So no critiques of the book? explain why you are negative or apathetic towards culture, traditions and values.

>>16336734
What we really need is socialism, sponsored by Amazon, Google, and Facebook.

>>16336748
no such thing. you people are so deluded and I really want to bash your head in. I can see why you retards need to be put into camps or just shot dead now. it's all so tiresome.

>>16327700
>Scientifically proven
Yeah like mass importing alien cultures and peoples to your society you fucking retard

>>16336734
Its both

>>16328011
Oh boy, can't wait to have some alien sand people religion superimposed over my country's culture so it can be set right and saved from itself. What was Charles Martel thinking? He was clearly a racist.

>>16328423
Is this the same Europe that has been fighting off muslim invasions since the 7th century you're talking about?

>>16336776
it isn't retard. their countries have been destabilized, bombed to this day, and have their resources extracted all by America. for all my concern they are comrades and we have a common enemy.

>>16336734
It's just another problem on top of many, that is also much harder to reverse.

>>16336808
Yeah the history is made why would they like us ever?

>>16336830
it's a non-issue >>16336808

I am from Vietnam, America once tried to genocide the Vietnamese before. The Vietnam war was genocide. When I see people use the term "white genocide" I think they should be shot in the head for their retarded and pitiful lives they lead to think something so retarded. All the problems you think you have have all been propagandized and drilled into your head by right wing media. In reality you personally are literally facing no issues and have never had a single problem worth noting in your entire life.

>>16336757
It's too bad your limp wrist will never allow that to happen.

>>16336757
I sense youre ready for the Maoist pill.

The final red-pill.

>>16336808
only you see them as comrades, they see you as enemy who will be ethnically and religiously replaced. a vast majority of illegal immigrants into europe nowadays arent even from those bombed countries but from shitholes like pakistan or bangladesh

>>16336942
no they don't this is right wing media propaganda. you are just a useful idiot that is all.

>>16336757
I'm a retard for not wanting endless boatloads of somalis being shipped to my country. Ok.

>>16336808
Every single one of them had their country bombed? Like in Tunisia? Or Morocco? Or Turkey? Or Nigeria? All those countries were bombed and all their problems are America's fault? The entire third world is the way it is because of America? At least admit they economic migrants and I'd respect you more.

>>16336888
I don't hold it against you for being anti-American or anti-white as a Vietnamese - it's perfectly understandable. Just don't want to live in an even more dysfunctional society than I already do.

>>16336888
Why don't you want millions of African and Muslim immigrants in Vietnam then? What are you, a racist?

>>16336964
You sense it dont you? The way corporate interests move the ideology of the people, the way every life gets atomised, the spectacle capturing every imaginative force.

Western democracy is a farce, free market of ideas is a lie, just like the regular market.

We can only have democracy when its guided by a vanguard of the working class. We can only be free when we press down the forces of production under the will of the people's.

>>16336998
>>16336998
>STILL being pro-democracy
Yikes. How many years is it going to take before people learn?

>>16336964
they def dont see us as allies lmao, more like a checkbook

>>16324334
dude what the fuck is this?

>>16337012
An exhibit on "white culture" for the National Museum of African American History, written by a Jewish woman for the consumption of white museum-goers (we all know black Americans don't go to museums).
>"but all that stuff sounds good?"
>"That's not very nice. You did an institutional racism. You did a microaggression. You did a fragility. You ignored lived experience. You did a white supremacy. You didn't even show interest in anti-racist work. "
They're all just dishonest paternalists.

>>16336888
Ok, so apparently foreigners like you hate Europeans and you still expect us to let in people like you?

>>16336757
>falls to pieces emotionally when confronted with counter opinions on a Mongolian basket weaving forum

Good luck with the revolution pal

I thought /lit/ would get better once school started, but it gets worse and worse by the day. Whatever did we do to deserve this?

>>16337949
Hitler had techniques with National Socialism to handle you little shits

>>16337866
No where did I say that you bourgeois suburbanite victim playing fuck. I don't hate Europeans or Americans I hate reactionaries and imperialists and their useful idiots that eat up their propaganda such as yourself.

Reminder that humanism and her bastard child, liberalism, are essentially secular Christianity. You cannot escape the totality of Christian influence on western thought, no matter how much you screech about God not being real.

Jesus is the mythical folk hero of the West.

>>16338001
>bourgeois
I'm working class, but ok
>I hate reactionaries and imperialists and their useful idiots that eat up their propaganda such as yourself.
What propaganda? Coming from whom? Was Obama the one behind all this? Don't make me laugh

>>16323970
Europe belongs to France

>>16336734
Why does leftypol have such poor knowledge of its own enemies? You seriously need to lurk more.

>>16338023
I was just about to ask this, what propaganda is he even talking about? In most western countries you'd become a social pariah real quick, if not straight up prison fodder in stricter places like the UK, if you even show the slightest bit of disagreement with the status quo.

>>16324284
Culture is not ideology

>>16338522
All art is necessarily political.

>>16327544
>europe is west of iron curtain