/lit/ - Literature

How’s it feel to not be fully human, anon?

You're not missing out on much. It's like any other movie.

>>16151105
What books do you like?

>>16151111
>>16151112
>>16151113
>those digits
why's this board so slow

>>16151111
It's a strange feeling, to be honest. Reading and writing should, in theory, provide no enjoyment to the likes of me because there is hardly any stimulation, but I can appreciate the beauty of good plots and intricate imagery nonetheless.

>>16151105
how the fuck do you even read books with this condition? Aren't they just fucking letters on paper and nothing else?

>>16151105
You are not experiencing the full scope of the human experience and i genuinely pity you. Imagine me fucking your wife/waifu, oh wait you can't.

>>16151119
>>16151120
Well I can still "imagine" things but not in the literal movie-in-my-head kind of way. I can't really put it into words.

You can detect NPC:s with this simple trick: NPC:s like to complain whenever an author is taking his time to describe the environment. That's because they can't see the environment before their inner eye, to them it's literally just filler words like for example "A green meadow" or "gray mountains towering above the treeline", for NPC:s these scenes do not appear as colorful images but they literally just read the words as they are and so get annoyed when these types of descriptions draw on for more than a few lines.

>>16151123
you have spent your entire life not visualizing with your mind's eye and you somehow can't put it into words? like you have not been able to think of even just one analogy to describe the experience? Maybe you are retarded and not just dysfunctional. Pity you twice as much now lol.

>>16151113
All kinds of books really, except genre fiction. I'm an ESL, but I've taken an interest in Anglo literature. Last books I read were "The Great Gatsby" and "Wuthering Heights", and I'm planning to read Poe next.

>>16151137
you don't have aphantasia you're just a woman
i'm sorry :(

>>16151136
I haven't thought much of it because I assumed my wishy-washy, abstract kind of imagery that I get every now and again was what people meant by seeing things with one's mind.
>>16151146
I have a penis.

>>16151105
does that mean you're incapable of fantasizing about realistic scenes? how do you escape? how do you jerk off? only to porn? you cant remember what your mom looks like without looking at her photo? how do you remember locations? i have so many questions

>>16151126
Something I realized thats really fucked up is school at least where I am in the US trains you to do exactly this. A number of times I would be told to shorten things and when we tried “imagery” I just put a verb behind what I wanted and it could be counted as good imagery if I did that enough times. If I take time to describe an environment I would lose points or something though. Teaching us to write as if we were NPCs

>>16151148
It is exactly that. For instance, I'm sure you can visualise memories in much more detail. There, you are using your mind's eye. >>16151136 is having a bad day/life.

>>16151154
>incapable of fantasizing about realistic scenes
Yes, if by realistic you mean something I could put into words or draw without it losing "consistency" or feeling fake.
>how do you escape?
I read and write just fine. I also enjoy drawing but since my mind's eye is fucked I mostly prefer abstract / stylized art. Otherwise I trace or make heavy use of references.
>how do you jerk off? only to porn?
I jerk off to porn but also without it. I can picture sexual phenomena in an abstract way. The imagery itself is almost nonexistent, but the idea is there and I can get off to that.
>you cant remember what your mom looks like without looking at her photo?
I know what she looks like and can describe her, but not realiably picture her physiognomy.
>how do you remember locations?
I have a hard time getting around but places I visit often are basically fixed in my consciousness.
>>16151160
Some memories, yes, most definitely.

>>16151160
So. This is difficult for me to comprehend. I work in a segment of architecture, and I spend most of the day flipping and rotating floor plans.
If you see a picture, of your wife, gf, dog, parents, whatever. Can you then close your eyes, remember what the image looked like and then turn it upside down?

>>16151191
OP here, I also want to know this.

>>16151148
No you don't

>>16151191
No, the image becomes distorted since it is no longer a memory but is instead a figment of my imagination. Faces are the easiest thing for me to visualise, and I can't turn them upside down in my head. Can you?

>>16151202
Sometimes I wish I didn't but there's nothing I can do about it now, is there? I'm not exactly the manliest of men but I'm content with myself most of the time.

>>16151184
Take the sentence "A dog is running around in the field".
What kind of dog is it? What is growing in the field? I can see a certain type of dog and a certain type of field so to me the answer is blatantly obvious, how about you?

>>16151209
Humans can imagine what ever they want. For example, I am picturing Angelina Jolie floating upside down in space, smiling gently as her hair floats around in zero gravity. Lit by the light of a bright star. Can you seriously not do this?

>>16151217
I just have a very vague notion of a brown dog running in a field like pic related. It is by no means "blatantly obvious" and the image doesn't just "pop" into my head the second I close my eyes.
>>16151224
Nope. I could certainly dream about that, but not picture it at will.

>>16151209
>can you?
Yes. I can visualize anything you describe and my brain fills in whatever is nondescript with things I’m familiar with.

I refuse to believe people like this exist. How can you call yourself human? You essentially are lacking consciousness. What are your dreams like?

>>16151184
at least you're into writing / reading and not drawing. /ic/ is full of people who are like you but also want to be artists.

>>16151237
Realistic, some unusually so, to the point where I sometimes struggle to distinguish between what is real and what isn't. But actually imaging things? No sir.

>>16151213
You should stop pretending and just accept yourself. Doing this will not help you.

>>16151252
What happens when your mind wanders? Can you hear your own voice in your head? Can you imagine sounds?

>>16151224
I *can* imagine that, but it's not accurate to reality. It's not particularly detailed, nor proportionally correct. And what I said was that if you had a memory of what you're trying to visualise, it would be far less distorted or inaccurate.

>>16151236
I bet that you can't imagine a field with more than 8 sheep. So look at the upside down face in your head, do you really think that it's an accurately flipped image??

>>16151213
So what if were born a woman, huh? What if were born inferior? I say fuck them and be yourself. Life is too short for this.

Can people actually see it like a TV screen or something? I can imagine things and "look" at them in my head but im not actually seeing them vividly, its there, but like a blur that im on the verge of actually seeing idk how to describe it

Some of you are saying you close your eyes to picture things. You are untermensch and are NPCs just like OP. If you are really human you don't even need to close your eyes to picture anything. You should be able to picture and imagine things with your eyes open.

>>16151257
I don't know what you're on about.
>>16151265
>Can you hear your own voice in your head?
Yes, kind of. Either I make a conscious effort to subvocalize or my inner monologue comes up, especially at night, also with song lyrics and things that I've heard throughout the day.
>Can you imagine sounds?
Sounds, smells, touch and other sensations. When it comes to images it's either nothing or something like this anon >>16151286 is saying.

>>16151272
I bet that you can't imagine a field with more than 8 sheep.
The field is filled with sheep as far as the eye can see. You lose.

>>16151295
An indistinct number of sheep is completely different to imagining nine sheep. Imagine nine sheep, and count them. Dare you.

>>16151265
This is a good question. Do you have an inner monologue? Are you able to talk with yourself in your thoughts?

>>16151249

>>16151105
Some artists have that, so I wouldn't worry too much.

>>16151105
I don't think anyone can read and see the images really vividly as if it were visual input (how would that work? the pages are turned transparent and the images are placed underneath?). I'm not convinced that aphantasia really exists, I feel it's just a meme that is created because people don't know how to accurately describe the process of imagining, so people get into misunderstandings with one another about the meaning of "seeing" and "mind's eye". Maybe I have it as well, but like you I read loads of fiction and I'm fairly creative, so I don't think it likely. I can picture any kind of image, just not to such an extent that it feels as vivid and real as visual input.

Also, if you are weedbro don't reply to this post.

>>16151300
Three rows of three sheep each.
You are retarded mate.

>>16151272
>I bet you can’t imagine a field with more than 8 sheep
Anon.... there’s no reason to be bitter. But yes. I can, I can even throw in a few sheep dogs. Maybe even a wolf, some birds swooping down and grabbing seed from the ground from around the sheep’s feet. My field is brome.

they're bullshitters, no one can visualize what they read as if they were watching a movie. To me it's more like the first version of an animation

>>16151249
As I said, I like drawing but it's mostly tracing and/or heavy use of references. For example, I like fashion illustration. I can use an image of a model or an outline like pic related and add / edit stuff as I go. I just can't come up with something beforehand.

>>16151310
You're imagining three threes. That's the same reason 168 546 153 521 is easier to remember then 168546153521. You've taken multiple shortcuts to avoid the point I'm trying to make.

>>16151306
Nobody sees (imagines) things as if they were seeing with their eye. The issue is OP seems to be unable to create imagery in their mind's eye at will.

>>16151314
So you can see and count all 9 sheep (don't you fucking dare imagine them in rows) simultaneously, in detail?

>>16151328
Then stop making your point so oppositional and convoluted you dumb ass

>>16151286
Train your visualisation skills.
Like you'd lift

For example, try to capture an image you see and recreate it with as much details as you can. Do that multiple times a day, try to find a way to measure your progress.

>>16151340
>oppositional
>you lose
ok mate lol

I have aphantasia and i don't care if i can't visualize, i can imagine abstractly just fine. Aldo i don't have some retarded internal monologue spelling out my thoughts all the time since i think abstractly and words only hinder my stream of conciousness.

there's a tempo that comes with reading, if you are reading slow imagining every single detail I truly believe you are doing it wrong.

>>16151354
>I bet
>Dare you
Imaginationlets, when will they ever learn.

>>16151356
Literal bugman. You're not even human. You are probably a nigger or low IQ. Most likely both.

>>16151333
It's more along the lines of juggling with abstractions for me. An anon mentioned porn earlier, and I'm inclined to think my ability to get aroused by what is essentially 4D chess as opposed to big imaginary tiddies is much more interesting. I still feel off though.
>>16151357
I still read slowly because good writing appeals to me in itself, even without an image thereof.

>>16151356
Inner monologue helps with slow thinking I find.

>>16151114
I wish it was slow. The replies are in the span of less than a minute.

>>16151359
So you felt that I was being "oppositional" by challenging your imagination to a test? I never put myself on a different "side" to you.

>>16151114
The best ideas ruminate

movies are for the retarded

>>16151367
Yeah and that's what i use it for but then there are retards like >>16151362 that cant even imagine not having a internal monologue all the time. I bet these retards visualize numbers when doing maths.

>>16151105
I can guarantee you can learn how to imagine, most just take it for granted as they practiced their entire childhood. I bet you couldn't explain how to breathe.
You cant imagine new things, frued tells us this. So what you do it you take ‘props’ ie things youve seen, and orchestrate them, as in a dream, in the way the book manipulates you. You think of characters as people you know, except most times, unless you look closely, you dont realize it.
If you wanted to learn imagination (because aphantasia is patent bullshit, you really believe that modern drivel? THATS what makes you a normie)
Just start some dream interpretation. Essentialy your unconscious is very far from you right now. For people with great imaginations their pre conscious swells and envelops a large portion of both conscious and unconscious, allowing psychic material to flow between, imagination, visions, slips of tongue, daydreams, dreams, and psychedelics are all psychic material. You get more fluent the more you handle it. I can answer some questions if you have any, im a professional imaginator, even sometimes intentionally talk to my inner voice for some time. Had a good conversation with my anima the other day.

>>16151394
Dude you're a nigger

>>16151410
Dog i'm too old for this website.

>>16151356
>retarded internal monologue spelling
Imagine coping so much you think that someone thinking about their behavior is retarded. You don't even get to enjoy most of life's experiences.

>>16151449
Imagine needing words to have a stream of thoughts.

>>16151449
So most of your life's experiences are imaginary, anon?

>tfw some people can't visualise imagery

>>16151476
At least I'm not a tripfag

can you beat off without looking at porn?

>>16151483
Yes. See >>16151184 >>16151363

>>16151476
this

Stop pretending minor identity quirks are worthy of self-diagnosing imaginary diseases and shortcomings in an effort to create your own personal snowflake identity.

Aphantasia doesn't matter, having bad imagination doesn't make you special. Just read your books and enjoy them.

>>16151480
I'm only a Tripfag because somebody copied my name!!!
Copied my...
Ah shit you're right...

>>16151148
>I have a penis.
post pic

>>16151126
Nah, that's bullshit. They would probably also get bored viewing such scenery directly. People who get bored with long visual descriptions are often more stimulated by ideas and philosophical themes.

>be aphantasic
>tfw Im actually really good at reading philosophy books
The imaginative schmucks are the real NPCs, that's why they have so little going on when it comes to their internal monologue. Aphantasia is reserved for true thinkers only

>>16151105
It's not fair aphantasiafriends... ._.
As for me, I can't picture absolutely anything except when I'm dreaming. The worst part of it all is that when I wake up I know I was visualizing things but I am just unable to visualize them again.
Aphantasia is a spectrum btw and it varies from being able to visualize things but only with blur, being able only to visualize the outlines, not visualizing anything at all and everything in between.
I have a friend who doesn't have an inner voice and that seems even worse imo

>>16152224
>doesn't have an inner voice
What do you mean? That he cannot imagine sounds? Or that he literally doesn't think? The first case would be mere aural aphantasia

>>16152047
This. Any NPC dipshit can enjoy the beauty of a sunset. Intellectual chads do ten transcendental deductions before their first cup of coffee.

>>16152234
He's told me he cannot think in words, but only with pictures and "ideas"

>tfw can't visualize either
If I try to visualize an apple I only get the feeling of an apple but I don't actually see one.

>>16151328
just imagined 1 row of 9 sheep

>>16151105
i can only ironically visualise what i read

>>16152047
you know people without aphantasia frequently have an internal monologue too right

>>16151119
Dude you can still understand things

>>16152262
Can you imagine the taste of Granny Smith apple? (Granny Smith apples are the only apples worth visualizing and imaginary tasting imo)

don't you have visual memories?

>>16151400
pls teach me how

>>16151115
The visualization is a sideshow to what literature can accomplish with meaning alone
I wouldn’t worry about it anon
T. Someone who visualizes everything they’ve ever read in 60fps 4K

>>16151120
You are a nigger

>>16152240
Like, he cannot think the words "I am here"? Are you sure he wasn't lying just to appear more quirky and interesting?

>>16151136
You are a double nigger
How’s it feel pretending to be smart because you haff bwain piktoors

>>16151137
Ahh. High school. Don’t worry the images will come once your brain finishes forming

op has low iq lol

>>16152315
Their internal monologue is tainted by their imagination, which is why most people cannot understand complex philosophical treatises.
The aphantasic master race is naturally bound to philosophy

>>16152431
there's less of a correlation than you think
to be expected when we're speaking as the outsider looking in

>>16152404
Knowing it's an already documented phenomena and that he didn't know it was a thing before we talked about it, I doubt he's faking it
>>16152315
wdym, don't most people have an internal monologue?

>>16152500
I can't speak for other people but most likely, maybe some people just opt to think in more abstract terms while others can only do that

>>16152370
Read frueds interpretation of dreams, then introductory lectures on psychoanalysis (old or new doesnt matter), then portable jung, from there just read jungs stuff on dreams, such as individual dream symbolism and its relation to alchemy. Alchemy is optional, and very difficult if you dont know some basic latin and greek/are interested, but its mostly to see his method on dream interpretation. Stsrt recording dreams, everyone dreams, regular metabolism and sleep schedule helps, keep a journal. Record even if you dont remember. Youll start to remember. Dreams are proof no one can have aphantasia. After you can fully analyze dreams/can utilize active imagination its just a matter of filling your brain with fantastic imagery if you want a vivid imagination. Read some milton or shakespeare, kafka or nabokov literally anyone will do just read

>>16151400
pretty much this. Read into being a psychonaut if you truly think you don't have the capacity to imagine.

>>16151114
shut the fuck up redditard
I hope your mother drowns in moldy semen

>>16152431
Be a retard like me who visually imagines the body without organs, it looks like a sea of entirely heterogeneous butter

>be me
>don't have movies constantly playing in my head
>no internal monologue
>almost nothing in my head... just darkness and silence.
>people ask for my opinion on various topics
>I don't have an opinion, I don't care to
>I don't really care about anything
>have read multiple hours a day for over 3 years but don't think I have really gotten anything from it
>parents think I'm rebelling but I just don't care or understand
>literally and unironically 0 friends
>don't really care to have friends
>not overly depressed
>find things amusing but never enough to laugh

I am an npc.

>>16151105
>as if they were watching a movie
This isn't really accurate.

When you guys visualize is it hard? If I try to picture an apple it is fleeting and not steady

>>16152834
it's pretty much second nature

>DUDE WHEN I READ ITS JUST LIKE WATCHING A MARVEL MOVIE
>I FUCKING LOVE MOVIES
>HAHA WORDS ARE GAY I JUST SCAN THE PAGE WITH MY EYES AND VISUALIZE THE SCENE
Visualniggers are the real subhumans. Novels are about the beauty of language. How it sounds, how it flows. If you just want a series of images then go watch Ironman while glugging bean milk.

>>16151105
It gets worse, people who visualize what they read don't visualize watching a film on a tv/cinema screen but generate a whole 3d environment, it helps with remembering
>t. Still feel sick and angry when I remember seeing a violated dog crawl out of the room with it's back legs all fucked in the sky brothel at the end of Altered Carbon

>>16152862
Can you do it without closing your eyes if that makes sense?

>>16151105
>In 2016 Blake Ross, co-creator of the Mozilla Firefox internet browser, found out that he has a condition known as aphantasia, a relatively rare inability to visualize anything. He wrote:

>I have never visualized anything in my entire life. I can’t "see" my father's face or a bouncing blue ball, my childhood bedroom or the run I went on ten minutes ago. I thought "counting sheep" was a metaphor. I’m 30 years old and I never knew a human could do any of this.

>>16152899
yes
before threads like this started showing up I didn't even think that some people needed to close their eyes to visualize things

>>16152915
I cant tell if I have aphantasia, mine seems mild I guess?

>>16152930
try looking into posts like >>16151400

>>16152899
Not original poster but I can picture it, taste, run my two front teeth, imagine touch in hand and mouth. All with eyes open. Can't smell funnily

>>16151105
Sometimes I get so lost in visualizing the story while reading that it's almost like I am watching it on screen. I feel so dumb when I come back from a piss break and wonder how to resume the video.

>>16151126
What if you aren't a native speaker and struggled to understand a few words? In that case you could fail to project that imagery into your brain even though you are capable of it.

>>16152880
Seething robotoid

>>16151306
I think there are different degrees to that condition. I remember seeing this pic of an apple asking what do you see when you imagine an apple in your head. The apple varied from realistic apple to a red shape resembling an apple.
In my case I can picture a realistic apple because I have been exercising my brain to do it since I was a kid. It happens in a split of a second though, kinda weird desu. I can't explain it.

>>16151123
When I remember a book I've read a long time ago I recall the visual imagery that went along with it, the scenes, the places, the atmosphere. What do you remember?
>>16151191
>If you see a picture, of your wife, gf, dog, parents, whatever. Can you then close your eyes, remember what the image looked like and then turn it upside down?
Yes, but it becomes less accurate.

>>16153040
>LONG descriptions
>misunderstand a FEW words in said descriptions
>can't visualize the scene
Maybe you're just retarded.

>>16153099
No, I'm very intelligent and that doesn't apply to me. Also the long descriptions could theoretically only consist of words that you don't even exist unless you consult a dictionary because the author wants to appear to be smart.

>>16153108
>Also the long descriptions could theoretically only consist of words that you don't even exist
But your earlier example mentioned a few words. Which would be perfectly possible. Descriptions of places and things still require color, shape, size, texture and other aspects.
These descriptions are not completely separate from the whole either. You would build from previous descriptions. It's not like they're tiny bubbles of color and form in an empty void. Even if you couldn't understand the words, a vague image should still appear, even if blurry and full of shadows and not exactly accurate.
And if you took the effort of checking unknown words in a dictionary, to make these images more accurate, how would the meaning remain unknown to you? Just re-read the parts once you have more information. If you care so much about this shit you'd take the extra necessary step.

>>16151136
Not him
You dont have look at a brick to know what a brick is.
Its the same as trying to picture something with your eyes open, except dark. Or even trying to picture something behind your head as if your eyes were on the other side of your head.
Its more like the Theory of the Forms when I imagine things. An idealized concept of the object. If I think of a chair it doesn't "exist" in my mind until I try to pull up a specific trait.
Its basically a very dim grayscale representation of an object.
Strangely enough I "see/feel" a compass directly over my head. Also dream like it's a movie in color, which seems strange.

>>16152047
Can you pass the mirror test?

When I'm really into a book it's automatic, I'm not even conscious that I'm reading, it plays out in my imagination like real life or a film. It's honestly surprising that it doesn't happen for some people, can you guys not visually remember scenes from books? For example I can still visualise the houses from Wuthering Heights as I originally imagined them as if they're real memories.

>>16152047
>be reading plato
>get caught up imagining a bunch of greek dudes sitting around arguing
>lose track of the argument without realizing

this whole visual imagery thing is overrated

>>16151105
the way i visualise it is in 3 second "clips"

>>16151114
Why are you slow

How do I train my visualization? I used to be able to imagine every detail of a scene but as I grew up I lost it somewhere along the way (probably drugs). If I focus hard enough on something I remember I can visualize pretty well but it takes a moment. Otherwise I have to add in one detail at a time or I can only focus on a single object. I see faces with complete verisimilitude in my dreams but it's almost impossible for me to visualize them awake. I want to be able to draw forth entire images like a photograph in a second like other anons.

>>16154008
Isn't there a Buddhist exercise about this? It's supposed to be carried out throughout your entire life. I don't see why you'd want to rush things.

>>16151105
>>recently found out that people can unironically visualize what they read as if they were watching a movie
But you seem to be mistaken in thinking that there’s much enjoyment to be gained from this. Most enjoyment is not, even when it comes to describing scenery and scenes
>>16152384
>60fps
You can only perceive 30fps retard

>>16151105
I have the exact same thing, although I think I have the potential to visualise things in my head, I never bother with trying to "see" a scene. I appreciate complex worldbuilding and scenic descriptions, they're often some of the most beautiful parts of a book, it's exactly like you said with the idea of forms, one appreciates the 'form' of something like the bucolic scene and all the pleasant subtle details, rather than trying to "see" it. I don't know, my mind strictly seems to concern itself with sensations and ideas rather than visual images, do people really see picture-perfect colour images in their head? Genuinely fascinates me

>>16151105
>as if they were watching a movie
>not just “as if they were watching it happen”
What is wrong with filmbrains?

>>16151105

Dude just picture the images in your mind, like, use your imagination wtf lmao

>>16154196
Someone on sffg posted a reddit spreadsheet listing books by rape and triggers and the dumb fucks had an "on screen" and "off screen" columns.

>thinking in any other way than in pure ideas and the abstract Platonic forms

>>16151105
>apparently I have aphantasia and that makes me an NPC
Is this a /lit/ meme like subvocalization?

>>16151105
I don't see things crystal clear. I see maybe the rough outline of a scene or a character but it is never very specific to me. I visualize it more like silhouettes. I never really have a film-like scene in my head. If I took my time I could probably construct a clearer image in my mind though.

I can only see things as concepts with my inner eye and even that kind of flutters. For example when imagining and island I wont see real place but something more like picrelated with colors

>>16154008
Yes it's called Spotting Spots in Space and L. Ron Hubbard used it to give retards the ability to visualize and thus feel like they were astral travelling. Just start imagining a blank black screen, then imagine some white dots on it. Then take them away, put them back, move them around, etc... Eventually you can imagine them in different colors, and then put objects in their places, and then extend the screen to a 3D space. It works well actually, Hubbard probably stole it from some more legitimate but obscure source.

>>16151105
why do i see this thread every fucking week? swear to god that gov't psyop /x/ always talks about to reduce quality on 4ch threads has been tearing /lit/ the fuck up lately.

>>16151105
I can imagine things but its like I'm looking at it all blurry and low quality with only basic colors, and the image doesn't stay still in my mind, it sort of flits in and out of my mind's eye. Feels bad.

>>16151105
thank god i only ironically visualize what I read

>>16152600
Although the chance is slim, since hes a normie, i still feel the need to warn, if you have any mental illness, ie depression, i would highly recommend against psychedelics, or at least start with half a dose
>t. doubled the dose and then proceeded to have the worst trip for 24s str8

>>16151105
The visualizations of the books I read 20 years ago are still in my head

>>16152029
t. NPC

>>16151318
Nope, you're just an NPC.

>>16151449
You're wrong here, abstract thinking is much deeper than thinking in words constantly. A truly great thinker only thinks in words and talks to themselves over more trivial social matters. Abstract conceptual thinking, words sink into the background. If you think all the time with words then you're NPC.

>>16151115
Intricate imagery..? I thought there were no images....

I also have aphantasia.

>>16151105
NPCs really do walk among us—I almost feel bad for you OP. If I suddenly woke up with aphantasia I'd unironically an hero: My life's pretty shit so I derive most my of pleasures from the vivid fantasies I occupy myself with while in bed or otherwise idle. I'm honestly still coming to terms with the revelation that there are people without inner monologues or that they can only imagine in one form or the other (some can only imagine in images and others only in words or feelings). Fucking alien. So you can't imagine smells and touch either? Or just images? It's frankly mind blowing.

>>16156257
pic unrelated

>>16156330
How so?

>>16151105
its just imagination

my imagination is so fucking vivid and I always thought it was inferior to normies because im an autist and can't socialize nearly as well as normies

it's so hard for me to believe that they can't visualize whatever they want at any time, I can walk to the store right now in my head and it would be more interesting than if I actually walked to the store

>>16156257
doubt.jpg

>>16151105
I'm the complete opposite on the spectrum, and it's sometimes hard to concentrate on reading
but you don't miss much, for example when I read 100 years of solitude all visuals I had in my head were this house they lived in and some more interesting family, members.
IDK if the house was even time or place appropriate, maybe it was influenced by my culture, because I imagined it like an old villa from my neighborhood.
and for the family, since they are all related looked similar

and that was that I have much more fun creating my own stories in the mind and mashing them up whit scenes from the movies, or listening to the music and imagining I'm at some party or concert.

>>16154308
That just means you don't have autism.

>>16151105
You’re being lied to, people get faint illusions of pictures in their head at most they don’t literally get to the point of not seeing the words on a page

>>16157255
posts like this make me so immensely glad that I'm not a normie

I'd kill myself if I was as dull as you

>>16157263
I’m sure you’re some super smart nigger in person anon but I do just fine for myself

>>16151114
Because for the most part it's bereft of people like you.

I think people confuse visual imagination with salvia tier hallucinations. Its still something that can be practiced. Those who day dream often are naturally going to have a slideshow running in the background as they read. Those that dont, why did you stop day dreaming?

>>16157255
>When he read he isn't transported into a trance reliving the text inside his mind, hearing the sounds and music, the comforts and smells, oblivious to the external world, not knowing how the pages are flipped
Ngmi

>>16152431
>his mind isn't a cornucopia of a thousand delights
>thats why im the master race lol
Giga-cope par excellence.

>>16157270
apparently fucking not

>>16157278
>When he reads he isn't shifted into another dimension, leaving the physical body and all notions of the self behind, experiencing every thought and emotion of all the characters throughout the entire novel in one single moment

>>16157278
You’re literally the same as delusional western Buddhists thinking they’re obtaining stream entry or whatever after a year or two of meditation. Keep enjoying them maladaptive day dreams if you want though.

>>16157278
>he actually needs to flip the page
>he doesn't absorb the entirety of the books essence through touch alone

The absolute state of this board.

Bros: can visualization skills be trained? I want to be able to deep-dive into my own little world instead of having to settle for blurry bits and pieces of old memories whenever I read.

>>16157304
Yes.

I've been disappointed when the world shown in a movie adaptation didn't match up to how I'd imagined it in my head when reading the original book. An example is the 1940s adaptation of The Big Sleep.

>>16157307
How so? Some preliminary searching doesn't yield anything promising. All that comes up are snake-oil salesmen and people with aphantasia claiming that there's nothing that can be done.

>>16151105
You are missing out on a lot. Can you at least vocalise internally?part of the fun of reading for me lies in picturing the setting and giving characters different voices

>>16157337
Practice is all you can do really. Maybe try remember your dreams as they played out, like a slide show to begin with then like a film. Dreams are easy because you can remember precise details as feelings also. Use that to build accurate visual recreations. From there is shouldnt be hard to create your own images.

>>16157304
Yeah bro it can easily be trained just keep doing it and trying to make the visualizations more and more complex and dont get discouraged if you make slow progress

I can for a short period of time but I cant see peoples faces in as much detail or create and entire city, just sort of reminiscences that I can use to map out where and when things are taking place

>>16157368
I dunno, it doesn't seem that trivial to go from remembering scenes from dreams/memories to inventing scenes of your own. Take this sentence:
>Though the flowers were all on the same stem, and the same shape, they were of different colours.
If the posters in this thread are to believed, people with normal visualization ability would read this and instantly imagine a multicolored plant. For me, though, I read "flowers" and "stem" and first visualize a white plant -- and then I remember that I have to apply different colors to it, so I go "red", "blue", "purple", "pink" and so on, but with each new color I add the previous color fades. How you go from this to instantaneous visualization eludes me.

>>16151105

I made my gf feel very bad when I told her I could visualize, and she couldn't. Which fucking sucks, but she is a genius at math, and I suck at it.


So look at the bright side, you probably have some skills visualizer don't.

>>16157255
Are you genuinely this fucking stupid?

>>16151237
Aphantasia doesn't affect people's dreams because it only affects their ability to voluntarily visualize while dreams are involuntary.

I don't understand if I can fully visualize or not because I can't access what it's like for other people. Qualia is a bitch.

>>16157797

Do you have dreams?
Its the same type of hallucination, but less detailed and intense.

>>16157811
Not that anon but this makes no sense to me. I don’t have aphantasia but my dreams are straight up indistinguishable from reality until I wake up unless I’ve been smoking weed but my visualization when I close my eyes and try to think about something awake is extremely different. Like the same neurons are firing as when I see the thing I’m thinking about but I don’t literally see a movie in my head when that happens

>>16151105
I'm the same and I hate it. I can think for myself, I don't follow any side blindly but in the end I'm an npc. But reading books is one thing. The most fucked thing is you can't visualise the faces of your relatives and stuff like that. I sometimes can visualise a vivid memory but I don't really see it. Just kind of pops into my mind as if I had a dream for a split second and suddenly woke up. Am I fake lit? Is there any hope?

>>16151119
You mostly think back to something you saw. Be it irl or a picture / drawing online. You just have to consume lot of visual media and based on the description mix and match it in your head. Although you still don't see it you can get a rough idea in your head. Kinda like a misty memory / dream. Don't have a better way to describe it.

>>16151105
No hate but its bizarre learning that people like you exist. It's so hard to even conceptualize what the human experience must be for you
What do you get out of reading? Do you abstract the concepts and fiddle with them mentally? Do you empathize with events sensually?
Don't feel too bad anon. Autists and retards are fucked up but they still deserved to be treated with compassion, even if they need to be first considered a derivative of humanity

>>16152899
Yes. I can’t believe people like you even exist. It exists in a place that is both superimposed over and distinct from my immediate surroundings. I can keep it steady indefinitely - enlarge it, explode it, dissolve it, rotate it, transform it, anything I want. It doesn’t have to be an apple. You can do with literally any subject. I can imagine Hegel in a pair of sunglasses cruising down a vaporwave landscape in drag racer and then pulling down his sunglasses and winking at me. It’s like second nature to do this.

>>16151105
I can visualize to an extent but my mental imagery is often not very detailed and I have a hard time holding a static image in my head for more than a moment, I gind that imagining something that moves is easier to me.

I mostly don't visualize when I read, the scenes depicted in books are just too complex for me to do it. I also can't imagine taste, touch or smell at all, and I'm astounded that people can do it. I can imagine sounds though, and I do have an internal monologue, in fact I find reading something without actually reading the text out loud in my head to be very hard.

>>16152904
What percentage of Silicon Valley do you imagine are similarly NPC bugmen?

>>16151105
Do you dream?

>>16151394
>I bet these retards visualize numbers when doing maths.

Are you seriously telling me you don't see numbers as dinosaurs and they all fight and the ones left over are the answer?
How do you even think?

>>16158063
Yes, very vividly, in fact.

>>16152880
You should lurk for at least 2 years before posting Anon.
Nobody who posts Soijaks unironically has been on here before the start of the year.

>>16152808
Don't be ridiculous, Anon.
We are all perfectly, uniquely normal.
We are all free thinkers.
Now, listen to your non-thinking brothers.
The people who think are the problem, not us.
Please, stop thinking Anon.

>>16151105
aphantasia is a meme from one tweet that made people think they don't have a functioning mind's eye because they don't literally see things with their eyes closed. 99% chance you're fine

>>16158058
>rare condition
>npc
That's literally the opposite of what npc means

>>16151123
>I can still "imagine" things but not in the literal movie-in-my-head kind of way
That's not a way that exists. You don't have aphantasia, your thoughts just aren't especially vivid visually, if that

>>16151126
Literally the opposite. People with a vivid imagination can fill in the blanks with a few descriptors, it's only those who can't who need a boring overload of details

>>16151184
OP, you are literally me. I have the exact same experience. I also call it abstract imagining. It's as if I'm feeling the presence of things I am imagining. There is no image whatsoever. That's why imagining dialogues between people or a really complex scene is easier than imagining a circle. Rather than focusing on details, I can focus on conceptualising the positions of objects that are supposed to be there. Like you also, I can't draw anything without a reference. That's also perhaps why the only thing about fiction that keeps my attention are philosophical themes, interactions between characters or characters themselves. The events are interesting, and it makes no difference to me where the characters are as I can't see the surroundings anyways. Something that I always thought of was how people say they see black when they close their eyes. I see orange. Is it so for everyone? I don't care if anyone calls me an NPC, lack of visualising skill has never been a problem. I also prefer music over other art forms, probably for the same reason. I can replay music in my head surprisingly well. Or at least I think it's well, perhaps I'm impaired there as well.

>>16158128
Then you dont have aphantasia baka

>>16157566
Math has a skill cap if you can't visualize it

Your GF is just good at highschool and following rules

>>16157796
>dreams are involuntary

Lucid dreamer reporting in, I can also wake up while dreaming at will.

>>16151126
It makes me bitter when I read lines like this because I live in an urban city in a desert-area and never get to bask in nature like them. I felt this bitterness also when reading Hesoid and he describes the mechanics of ploughing.

>>16152880
you can do both retard. Do you think the authors just wrote down whatever words sounded pretty and didn't care about using language to create imagery?

Does anyone else hold the opinion that those that claim to have aphantasia (Or at least a large majority of them) don't understand the concept posed to them? Like I find it very hard to believe some people can't imagine an apple either 2d or 3d with their thoughts. It's not going to appear projected on the back of your eyelids but you can abstractly conjure up an image in your mind.

Seriously, anons with so called "Aphantasia" just imagine a red apple sitting on a wooden stool. Report back with your results.

I'm not sure if I have aphantasia or not.
In my mind I can, say, imagine Homer Simpson pretty clearly, but not do much with him. I can hear him "d'oh" if I want to.

But other people make it seem like they can imagine wonders as if they were watching a movie or something.

And when reading I suppose I can try and imagine the scenes like a film, but it's more effort to me and I prefer to just read the poetry of the words.

Also while I don't have a constant internal narration, I do often have dialogues with myself and riff from there.

>>16151126
>"A green meadow"

If I read a fucking book that has the words "A green meadow" I simply refuse to spend energy picturing it because it's insultingly unoriginal. I've pictured green meadows before, don't need to picture them again.

>>16160177
>In my mind I can, say, imagine Homer Simpson pretty clearly, but not do much with him. I can hear him "d'oh" if I want to.
>But other people make it seem like they can imagine wonders as if they were watching a movie or something.

That's genuinely disturbing. You should be able to do those things.

>>16160177
You don't because you just stated you're able to manifest an image of homer simpson without actually physically seeing an image of homer simpson. If aphantasia were real and you had it, you wouldn't be able to visualize a single thing. It's much more likely some people don't have as vivid an imagination as other people. People have a misconception of the voice inside their head, I very heavily doubt some people narrate every action they preform throughout their day, it's just plain inefficient. A majority of our day especially when we're preoccupied with the external world such as at a job or sport we register things subconsciously and act on instinct. Like if I'm driving I don't say to myself "turn there" I just turn as I subconsciously realize that's the next direction I need to take. However if trying to solve a problem I will usually have an internal conversation with myself as it allows me to better organize my thoughts.

>>16160172
I'm in a boat similar to >>16160177's. I can imagine simple images, especially if I've seen them before, but I can't manipulate them, and they appear almost flat, like I'm looking at a screen. The thing that makes me question whether I have aphantasia are replies like >>16160237 and all the others in this thread that report being able to fully immerse themselves in a scene as if they were actually there. I'd imagine that these people aren't bullshitting, either, since I can hear music in my mind to the same level of fidelity.

>>16160172
>Does anyone else hold the opinion that those that claim to have aphantasia (Or at least a large majority of them) don't understand the concept posed to them?
There does seem to be quite a bit of that happening. People with weak visualization skills are self-identifying as Aphantasiacs and when pressed further they realize they are capable of limited visualization.

>>16158201
>have the exact same experience. I also call it abstract imagining. It's as if I'm feeling the presence of things I am imagining.
Not OP, but I am the same.

>>16160205
>spend energy picturing

the whole point is that it is automatic, yet within control. No one spends energy imagining things they read.

>>16160426
>The thing that makes me question whether I have aphantasia are replies like >>16160237 and all the others in this thread that report being able to fully immerse themselves in a scene as if they were actually there.
There is a spectrum of visualization and it is an ability that can also be trained to some degree. If you can imagine simple images but not create interactive 3D scenes, then you fall towards the bottom of the spectrum and are not Aphantasiac. It is an ability that can also degrade over time if it isn't used. I remember as a child in the 2nd grade I use to create a simulation of my school in my head and then pause time to go around and mess with the simulated people (putting them in strange positions and removing articles of clothing, etc.). I would then unpause time to observe their simulated reactions. Trying to accomplish something of that magnitude today is decidedly more difficult for me (if not outright impossible) without spending time to re-train that ability.

>>16151514
Based.

Aphantasia just means you're honest about what you can actually visualize. If you can fully flesh out an entire scene based on a few words you're the NPC. You don't even realize that you're making executive decisions and assumptions about details because you lack the mental nuance to leave minutiae undefined.

>>16151514
Why would you assume someone talking about not being able to do something is them wanting to be special, it sounds like you're projecting your own desire

>>16161571
The etymology of the term aphantasia can be directly traced to a TIL reddit post that was designed to be the internet equivalent of a bunch of middle schoolers testing whether or not they are "double-jointed" at recess. Except that it has a subjective component to it that makes it difficult to talk about, attracts pseuds, and produces long comment sections.

>>16161686
It sounds to me like the complete opposite though, being unable to visualize things makes you sound like a robot, not like a unique special human.

>>16161691
Die

>>16161729
suck my dick

>>16161565
cope

>>16158184
this

>>16151126
naw God tier visual imagination here, when books go droning on about the physical setting i start to daze off, id rather watch footage then read visuals, its inherently retarded to rather read a visual than see it, but i also dont like very many books becuase i find philiosopical musings just a symptom of intellectual cripples who analyze till they are paralyzed, you need a healthy dose of practicality and theory