/lit/ - Literature

don't territorialize me

>>16122841
Who is his best translator?

Friedrich Nietzsche is a great thinker. I am not. When he says that man was intrinsically, neither good nor bad, he is right. Man is born a tabula rasa, just a clean sheet of paper, nothing written on it. But he brings seeds, and if he is allowed freedom and support, he will become a unique individual.

Nobody can predict what is going to be his destiny, but one thing is certain: if he is not interfered within his growth, whatever he becomes, he will be immensely contented. He may become a musician, just a bamboo flute player, but he will have a richness in his being which even the richest people cannot have, a fulfillment. His seed has not been destroyed. He has come to become his own self, not somebody else’s carbon copy.

He may not be a lotus flower; he may be just a marigold, or even a grass flower without any name, anonymous, a nobody, but still he will dance in the rain, and in the wind, and in the sun, with the same joy as any roseflower.

But this has been one of the most difficult problems: people grab every child as he is born and start making something out of him. Nobody cares to allow his nature to have its own say, to sing its own song. With all good intentions, the parents, the priests, the teachers, the whole society is trying to make somebody according to their own conceptions.

And this is the sole cause of humanity’s misery, because nobody is what he would have been if left in freedom – supported, accepted, nourished. But everybody has been distorted. And the problem becomes more complex because the people who are distorting children are distorting them for their own good.

Every child comes with tremendous energy and potential, but the whole of society around the child starts molding him, giving him ideals: you have to be a Jesus Christ or a Gautam Buddha; you are not acceptable as you are; if you want respectability, honor, respect, recognition, then you have to become somebody according to the ideas of the society in which you are born. So everybody is led astray, away from his nature, away from his being, and the farther away he goes from his being, the more miserable he will become.

>>16122899
I have heard about a great surgeon who was retiring at the late age of 75. It was not customary to keep somebody in service for that long, but that surgeon was a master surgeon. In the whole country there was nobody who even came close to him. Even at the age of 75, he was the best surgeon. So rather than getting retired at the age of 60 he was persuaded to continue.

At 75 he said, “Enough is enough. Now, I want to rest and relax. I’m utterly tired.”

The day he was leaving his service, his friends gave him a farewell party, and they were all drinking and dancing and rejoicing. But he was standing in a corner, sad and miserable. One of his friends reached to him and asked, “What is the matter? We have come here to give you a joyous festive farewell, and you are standing here in the corner as if somebody has died. Why you are looking so miserable?”

>>16122919
He said, "You have touched my wound. I have been carrying that wound for almost 60 years. I never wanted to be a surgeon. My father was a doctor, my mother was a doctor, and they both forced me to be a surgeon. I wanted to be a musician. And they both hammered me, 'Are you mad? If you become a musician, at the most you will be a street singer. But if you listen to us, we will send you to the best educational institutions, to the best medical college, to the best surgical institute. We will make you one of the great surgeons. You will leave a name behind you in the history.'

"I was helpless, as every child is. They forced me; I became a surgeon. And they were right, I became world famous. But I have never felt any joy. I have been working like a robot. Perhaps that is the reason why I am such a good surgeon, because I have lost my human heart. My heart is almost dead. If I had become a musician, perhaps nobody would have ever heard my name, but what does that matter. I would have felt fulfilled, satisfied. I would have been my own self."

This has happened to almost everybody. Only once in a while, by accident a child escapes, survives, protects his own destiny and does not allow anybody to drag him into other directions.

Nietzsche is right, but he provides no cure. His diagnosis is right because he is only a thinker, a great thinker. And I have always loved him for his insights. But this is the poverty of the West.

It is not only the question of Friedrich Nietzsche; none of the philosophers in the West are meditators. They are only thinkers. By thinking, they come to certain conclusions. By logic, by argument, they try to find something closest to truth, but it is never the truth.

You cannot think about truth; either you know it or you don't know it. How can you think about love? Either you love and know, or you don't love and you don't know. There is no third alternative.

What is the actual evidence of the "aristocratic morals" being what he describes in the first essay of TGOM, besides those linguistic examinations that he discloses?

>>16122942
Nietzsche lived just in thoughts. Otherwise he had the potential of being a Gautam Buddha for the West. He had the capacity, the caliber, but the West has missed the very dimension of meditation. Their philosophers have remained only thinkers.

The East has not produced great philosophers like Friedrich Nietzsche - there is no parallel in the East. The East has never bothered about polishing, sharpening, thinking, knowing that by thinking you cannot arrive at your being, to your truth, to your godliness, to self-realization.

Nietzsche lived a miserable life, full of worry, anxiety, anguish, angst. This is strange. Such a great thinker, but his life is nothing but anguish. Gautam Buddha may not have been such a great thinker. He was not, but his life was so calm, so quiet, so peaceful.

And the strangest phenomenon is that the Western philosopher has been thinking, "What is truth?" and has never been able to find it. And the Eastern mystic, non-philosopher, has never been thinking about truth. He has been on the contrary, dissolving thoughts, getting out of the mind, finding a space in himself where no thought has ever entered. And in that space he has encountered God Himself. The Western philosopher creates great edifices of thought, but his whole life is so poor.

>>16122957
You type really fast

>>16122942
really sad post. I’m afraid I’ll never make it but I’m going to try. Thanks for writing that bro.

>>16122959
>>16122963
>really sad post. I’m afraid I’ll never make it but I’m going to try. Thanks for writing that bro.

its from OSHO. i didnt write sheeeeit beotch

>>16122942
>Nietzsche is right, but he provides no cure.
>"his diagnosis is correct, but his solution wasn't" meme
Osho is a fucking pseud who obviously didn't really read Nietzsche or Schopenhauer or Kant for that matter. Nietzsche solved Schopenhauer; "the poverty of the West" doesn't lie in his will, his will is the still-emerging GREATNESS of the West.

>>16122977
Osho is an ex philosophy teacher. His parents wanted him to become an engineer, doctor or scientist. He chose to study philosophy in the university.

Of course he read kant, Schopenhauer, Nietzsche and mostly every western philosopher. I'm just giving you snippets, but you are in seething mode..prolly had a bad day or bad life but im projecting

you seem pretty ignorant on osho cuz u hate him, not muh problem.

>>16123045
Osho seems pretty ignorant on Nietzsche, Schopenhauer, and Kant to me. Who cares if he was a teacher of philosophy? There's tens of thousands. Not all of them are going to be right. I see no point in listening to him on philosophy, especially when the West is the only living culture remaining.

How many thousands of years must we wait before we produce the Uberman?

>>16122841
I'm no holy man, but what's really that wrong about some aspects of the 'new' good like caring about others?

>>16123105
>I see no point in listening to him on philosophy
I see no point in philosophy. good day

>>16122841
Having trouble understanding him, but i figure I can memorize enough of it to pretend I know what talking about. I like that he pretty much says Christians are a bunch of eunuchs. I like to turn on some early 90s death metal and bang my head and scream fuck yeah ..You can't Sneech the Nietzsch!

>>16123464
Based

>>16123192
Nietzsche's pity =/= caring about others. He explains at some point that the Greeks at one point in time had this under their control, and when they saw their slaves suffer, they were able to transform their sympathetic feelings into art without pitying them. They sympathized, but still worked them into the ground, and from this great yes-saying of their will came their tragic art, a powerful love for life that transcended their petty feelings.

Pity is the door that lets in weakness. Nietzsche condemns Christianity as a religion of pity because he perceives it as having opened the door to weakness in Europe. For example, he thought that Pascal had been a greater man had he not been a Christian, and that being Christian ruined him. He saw Christianity at the center of the eventual collapse of Europe's strongest individuals, because it is designed to confuse master morality with slave morality, which renders the moral instincts in the masters impotent and their will open for corruption.

>final act before his madness was taking pity on a subservient animal being subjected to cruelty
>starts calling himself the crucified one in letters
did nietzche, after years of actively suppressing his inherent slave morality and sympathy for the weak, finally refute himself into literal insanity with this? did the christpill literally break him?

>Yes, Kind of. It's worth pondering where he went wrong, and why, despite this, he got so much right. He was sort of right for the wrong reasons. That's the apparent paradox to the modern mind: there's seems to be an expectation of philosophic consistency and development, which is subverted in his work. Further, people are trained today to read and write in a linear way, moving towards an often emotionally foredrawn conclusion (though this is not usually noticed). Nietzsche wrote aphoristically, so people have a hard time understanding what he was saying, or 'which side' he was on.
Short answer: yes he refuted himself, but he was insane to begin with, not least due to his poor physical and mental health. The nuanced truth, however, is far more interesting and enlightening, and is worth thinking about,

>Yes, this is why abandoning compassion morality doesn't work. Compassion is a natural drive. The more you put effort into repressing it, the more it grows stronger. After years and years of forcing himself to believe "the weak should die", his repressed compassion had become so sensitive and strong that the whipping of a horse was all that he needed to lose his mind.

from another thread. discuss??

>>16123954
There are a number of strange myths regarding Nietzsche's life. I'm sure some of it comes from his detractors, since he had many even while he was alive, but they also could have come from his positive readers who may have mythologized him (kind of like Jesus's disciples).

First of all: there's nothing philosophical about Nietzsche's descent into madness. Nietzsche's ideas and his system of thought aren't incoherent or maddening; hell, sometimes I think Schopenhauer was more the philosophical "madman" than Nietzsche. Nietzsche's madness was, according to modern physicians, likely a brain tumor. What notes there are from Nietzsche's own physician regarding his illness seem to indicate this, but at the time it wasn't something that was easily diagnosed or understood.

Second of all: the incident with the horse may not even be real. Apparently, it first appeared in a newspaper after Nietzsche died, like 11 years or so after the event supposedly happened. The scene is also reminiscent of a scene in The Brothers Karamazov by Dostoevsky. What seems likelier based on accounts is that Nietzsche just collapsed, and he was assisted onto a nearby bench until medical help arrived.

Third of all: Nietzsche wasn't suppressing anything. There is, in fact, no indication that he was stifled, depressed, or anything of the sort. His conceptualization of pity is not quite how you see it and doesn't actually create the cognitive dissonance you think it does. See >>16123914

How do you pronounce his name?

I've heard it pronounced like "knee-chay" or something.

>>16124103
Neetsje

>>16124103
Most people in English just say Nee-chuh

>>16124103
Knee-sche

Who is the faggot who did this?

Did he read Kierkegaard? Their ideas (in some ways) are eerily similar

>>16124438
How are they similar? I haven't read Kierkegaard, so I'm curious.

>>16122899
Tabula Rasa is a myth. We are perhaps inborn with certain features that can be nurtured, but it is also true that some are simply more capable than others.

>>16124438
>Did he read Kierkegaard? Their ideas (in some ways) are eerily similar
Kek

Read Nietzsche Anti-Christ.

>>16122841
How can this Man have been Correct about Everything?

Exaclty what the Left today ( and chrsitians in the past, did) is doing.
>Nietzsche’s Puritan Warriors
>than about the Puritans. Following Alasdair MacIntyre, Mitchell argues that the heart of Nietzsche’s work is the “genealogical” critique of morality—the claim that all traditional moral discourse inevitably masks power plays by one group or another. This critique has implications for virtually every sphere of human life. In The Anti-Christ, Nietzsche famously argued that religion began when the first “priests”—weaker members of society—invented a web of transcendent punishments and rewards in order to exert psychological control over society’s physically dominant members. And more broadly, since all language entails the imposition by human beings of some classificatory scheme or another upon the phenomena of experience, on Nietzsche’s account the use of language itself is nothing more than a further power play.
https://kirkcenter.org/reviews/nietzsches-puritan-warriors/

>>16122864
Kaufmann

>>16124093
>Brothers Karamazov by Dostoevsky
the horse beating hallucination was in Crime And Punishment.

Just finished the Anti-Christ. How can a man who denies facts also deny faith?

>>16125307
Midwit take

>>16124438
he didn't learn about kierkegaard until later in his life, iirc.

>>16122841
Nietzsche? More like NEETshit

>>16122841
when Nietzsche said, "God is dead," that wasn't a conclusion, or even a statement.
it was basically an acknowledgement (or exaggeration) of Darwin's theory of evolution, which for many people disproved the literal interpretation of The Bible.

>>16126334
Yes Nietzsche would only half approve of it. God is dead and we have killed him means that we have embraced nihilism but replaced it with nothing. Which Nietzsche thought was sad.

Just bought “The Birth of Tragedy” what am I to get from this book? Already read Human, All Too Human, Zarathustra and Genealogy of Morals, the first being my favorite.

>>16122945
>aristocratic morals
If you are rich and surround yourself with rich people then you will pick up each others habits until you develop a morality.

>>16123045
He sounds interesting. I'll give this Osho a go.

>>16124373
That's actually fucking annoying. These people are too stupid to know anything about him and just make retarded assumptions about him. At this point everyone should know the story about his sister who twisted his works to try and impress a low ranking nazi. Ugh.

>>16124103
I saw ''Knee-cha''

>>16123914
>Pity is the door that lets in weakness. Nietzsche condemns Christianity as a religion of pity because he perceives it as having opened the door to weakness in Europe. For example, he thought that Pascal had been a greater man had he not been a Christian, and that being Christian ruined him. He saw Christianity at the center of the eventual collapse of Europe's strongest individuals, because it is designed to confuse master morality with slave morality, which renders the moral instincts in the masters impotent and their will open for corruption.
I think you have a very good understanding of his works. How long have you been studying him for?

>>16123954
I think that believing the strong should rule over the weak isn't the same as some sociopath beating the ever loving shit out of his horse. Everything has it's rewards and I think the strong should take mercy on the weak. Interdependent relationships can have huge rewards.

What caused Nietzsche's madness will probably always remain a mystery but what we think now is that is that it was a strictly medical problem, a tumor perhaps.

I don't know how much effort Nietzsche put into his repression of compassionate thoughts. I'll need more time to think about it.

>>16125315
religion is a cope. based.

>>16124103
niche

>>16122945
Homer and the rigveda